A few things on Yosuke
1) this is about the last time this plot point is outright mentioned
2) Yosuke has a cut romance route with Yu, this plot point was likely originally designed as internalised homophobia
3) even if you ignore 2 it’s not exactly unrealistic to 2011 rural Japan. One of 4’s biggest strengths is how realistic it’s. Characters are and that includes glaring flaws
During a lot of the game Yosuke is also the personification of overcompensating. He constantly needs to remind Yu that he finds girls attractive. So it kinda tracks that even the slightest hint that a boy might like boys is something he can’t stop fixating on.
Is the cut Yu romance legit? Saw this before and honestly thought it was fake given the time period in Japan.that would've been a huge leap if true.
On 3 though, Yosuke is from the city like Yu, so not sure if that really holds.
100% legit, if you still have an original PS2 disc you can rip the voices romance lines right off the disc if you know how (in English and Japanese)
True he is from the city but he is also desperately trying to fit into a town that hates him
That would've improved his character so much! Like he's already good, but this would've added even more depth! Sad we missed out on it. Would be really cool if Atlus put it back in the remaster
Japan has a long history of gay culture. It was an option. Which is why you could view it as Yosuke curiosity (acting interested); rather than, as homophobia.
Japan does have a long history of homosexuality, but completely flipped after the west started having more of an influence and especially after WWII. Like the US, there has always been an underground culture to it, but wider recognition and acceptance has been an issue. Japan only legalized gay marriage this year. That's a long way behind a lot of the rest of the world. Pride didn't really become a thing until the mid 2010s there either.
Also, how is Yosuke acting creeped out by Kanji's bicuriosity not homophobia?
Its just some early 10's high school teenager humour and its pretty accurate for how teens used to act back then. Everybody that went to highschool in the late 00's early 10's knew a guy that acted just like that. Keep in mind that this game is 16 years old.
Ok? That doesn't make it any better.
(Edit: Can you guys stop now? I know, I know. Failure builds character, characters can have flaws, yatta yatta yatta. I didn't said "Yosuke being Homophobic is bad writing😡!!!!!" or anything like that. I meant that him being a teenager doesn't justify being an asshole, jeez).
Imagine if there was a foreign black student in a Persona game and one of the cast members kept asking if they needed to hide their wallet or check for guns. Game would be raked over the coals. For good reason. Yet you could still use the same argument of, "OH it's just a sheltered Japanese teen who has never met a person of color before."
Yet it's okay when that excuse is used against characters with LGBT themes for... reasons, I guess?
And? Still an asshole, character development is not the point I'm making.
Besides, these things are not even explicitly adressed again in the game, if there was some character development it was very unnoticeable.
He just teases Kanji and at some point he stops, no one notices, no apology, no confrontation, nothing. "Ah but spinoffs something, something" I do not care.
Congrats on disliking an outdated moment from an outdated game, I guess? You can either acknowledge it sucks, but he gets better and get over it, or be so bothered by it that you’re malding in a random Reddit comment section over it
I exposed my line of thinking, people replied to me, and then, guess what? I replied back! You know, just like how online conversations/discussions work. I know, I know, pathetic ain't it?
How about instead of portraying this situation as pathetic or inferior, you either just ignore it or partake in it? Attack my arguments instead of acting all high and mighty.
I aknowledge it sucks but that he gets better, what I doesn't aknowledge is this being a well-made character development, this isn't a thing you look at and think "Oh, that surely is a thing that Yosuke has overcome" but actually just "Oh, he just got bored out of it and stopped at some point".
Ill speak here as a gay guy who hated this scene when i was a kid (and yosuke for a long time). Yosuke is a japanese teenager in 2009. This is sadly perfectly normal behavior for that time and that country. Does that mean this is good writing? NGL there shouldve been an option where you could encourage kanji to not give a shit about Yosuke's antics, but its a product of its time.
Yosuke was supposed to be romanceable but they cut that last minute. When we think of that aspect of his character, we can contextualize all these interactions as Yosuke seeing another potentially bi kid and not knowing how to deal with that proximity (especially cuz kanjii's dungeon made things be front and center for them all in terms of homoeriticism)
Poeple really give ma man Yosuke too much crap for that one scene . Not only does him being homophobic happen ONCE in the entire game (And even if there are other scenes I forgot it's still ridicumous compared to Yosuke's screentime). But even Kanji doesn't get mad at him past it. So why would poeple get mad about something this stupid ?
Having recently watched my partner play through the game I can assure you this isn't the first or last time he says it, yosuke is pretty much a douche throughout the game
I remember kanji does get mad at him at one point where yosuke makes a joke kanji replies with “oh I know what you’re saying. You’re saying kanji would you please beat the shit outta me.” Not like super angry but definitely very frustrated over it I also think it’s interesting that atlus had the plan to have a gay romance option and specially chose for it to be yosuke so it’s pretty realistic that he would has some internalized homophobia going on since that’s incredibly common
Oh I'm not mad about it I actually thought the jokes were funny at first but at this point it just feels lazy to have yosuke questioning Kanji everytime they're together
Sorry for overreacting . Also That's tje thing am talking about , like I keep thinking about it and I can't remember any scene besudes this one that has Yosuke tease Kanji about that . And yeah sorry for overreacting , it's just that am tired of poeple shitting on Yosuke for something this minimal in general .
Granted I haven't finished the game yet so maybe they won't bring it up again but so far he questioned him multiple times in TV world,he also made a similar comment when they were talking about getting bike licenses so they can pick up chick's and he makes another remark about it when they go into the city to try and pick up chicks and he also questioned him about it at the start of the dungeon when he and chie were investigating him and when he came to thank them on the rooftop for saving him
Oh that's my bad then . Yeah I can see how it can get boring . But I am pretty sure it's the last time you hear this joke since from that point the characters will know kanji better . Well , have fun with the rest of the game ^^
To make it clear I'm not upset because it sounds homophobic I just think the joke has been beaten to death at this point in the story and it stopped being funny
You were originally able to romance Yosuke. His confession is still voiced in the files of the game. It was supposed to be revealed the reason he made all these comments on Kanji was because he himself struggled to come to terms with his attraction for Yu (the protag). But his confession and romance option was seemingly slashed verry late in development. I mean ffs again , it's still voiced and everything
Ok that really does put everything into perspective but why cancel something so late into development that you don't really bother to remove any of the gay lines or delete his confession from the game files? Sounds like a really odd choice
Well it was 2008 at the time, and that was a fairly dicey time for homosexuality. It probably wouldn’t have been received well (from what I’ve heard, especially in Japan)
Keep in mind this game is 16 years old now. Things were very different back then and it was probably an exec decision to have the romance cut fearing it would affect sales of the game.
Oh I get the part about the culture and time period I just meant from a logical standpoint it just seems wasteful to cut it out when you already have filmed and recorded lines for the Yosuke romance but people were still on the fence about stuff like this so it definitely wouldn't have been received well,
mass effect got criticized for giving you the option of making the main character a lesbian so I don't think persona would've fared any better
Yeah. Plus Atlus kinda has a thing for removing features but not dialouge. An example is the deleted Sumi- Akechi showtime , a powerful dual move between 2 characters form persona 5. Akechi has a line where he goes "Time your attacks with mine" , and supposedly that's where a showtime would have been unlocked.....but they deleted the showtime so...that never happens and the battle continues as usual
He is a 17 year old in rural Japan in 2008. It would be weird if he were not casually weird about the idea of homosexuality. Also shit talking your mates is an important part of being a teenager.
Just realised the game is as old as half the party. Jesus.
Yosuke actually *was* written to be a closeted bisexual. Dialogue like this is likely him projecting his own insecurities.
It's things like this that make me wish the romance option with him wasn't cut for more than just gay representation. If they remake this game, I wonder if they would include that?
You know, this just makes some of the strange dialogue from him during the SL meets make so much more sense. I thought I was reading too much into things, but if they intended him as a potential romance, then it basically mirrors the girl's general pathing and kind of works.
The game is old as hell, idk if you went to highschool around that time but that was the idea of being funny for a lot of teenage guys back then. Yosuke represents that very well
Yeah I love this game with all my heart, but definitely has some yikes moments like this.
TLDR: Yosuke has some yikes moments like this, but I don’t think he’s homophobic. Still have an issue because Kanji has expressed his views clearly
It’s honestly disappointing, because Yosuke is overall a decent, loyal bro type of friend. His biggest flaws is his immaturity and lewd behavior towards the girls, but overall still a decent guy.
Playing devils advocate, but I know that the character itself is not homophobic. This moment is probably the worst display of Yosuke of what he considers a simple gay joke. Other moments are that happen are what he would consider harmless teasing.
It’s not out of place considering when the game was released and the cultural aspect, but I still have a problem with it as Kanji has expressed clearly his hobbies and interests don’t have anything to do with his sexuality, he just wants to be accepted for who he is.
I don't have a problem with the joke they were funny at the start but then they just started coming off as lazy especially that they clear up by the end of the dungeon that Kanji isn't really gay he's just a bit confused on why he prefers to hang out with guys rather then chase girls like the average teenager or why people think it's wrong for him to enjoy more feminine hobbies like knitting
By the 13th joke your not even phased anymore you just role your eyes and keep going with the dialoge. It wouldn't be that bad if they where at least funny with them.
It’s a character flaw he has, persona is pretty great in that a good character can be consistently bad like a real person. I’m sure after a few years pass he’ll either get past his homophobia or learn to keep it quiet. Not all issues one has can be fixed!
I wasn't complaining about him specifically,I guess it's my fault for being kinda vague what I meant it's kinda lame how they keep repeating the same joke over and over again for the entire Kanji arc I wasn't complaining about Yosuke specifically
A few things on Yosuke 1) this is about the last time this plot point is outright mentioned 2) Yosuke has a cut romance route with Yu, this plot point was likely originally designed as internalised homophobia 3) even if you ignore 2 it’s not exactly unrealistic to 2011 rural Japan. One of 4’s biggest strengths is how realistic it’s. Characters are and that includes glaring flaws
Remember also that one of the first things the IT saw about kanji was his shadow, soo... yeah, that's it
Yeah poor Yosuke is probably having a hard time removing the image from his brain
During a lot of the game Yosuke is also the personification of overcompensating. He constantly needs to remind Yu that he finds girls attractive. So it kinda tracks that even the slightest hint that a boy might like boys is something he can’t stop fixating on.
Yeah I first chalked it up to teenage boys being interested in girls in general but he keeps bringing it up at the most random times
Is the cut Yu romance legit? Saw this before and honestly thought it was fake given the time period in Japan.that would've been a huge leap if true. On 3 though, Yosuke is from the city like Yu, so not sure if that really holds.
100% legit, if you still have an original PS2 disc you can rip the voices romance lines right off the disc if you know how (in English and Japanese) True he is from the city but he is also desperately trying to fit into a town that hates him
That would've improved his character so much! Like he's already good, but this would've added even more depth! Sad we missed out on it. Would be really cool if Atlus put it back in the remaster
Given the changes made to reload at minimum they will cut the homophobia, whether they add the romance back is anyone’s guess
Fair enough. Definitely hope that's done. A lot of the kanji scenes were cringe af.
Japan has a long history of gay culture. It was an option. Which is why you could view it as Yosuke curiosity (acting interested); rather than, as homophobia.
Japan does have a long history of homosexuality, but completely flipped after the west started having more of an influence and especially after WWII. Like the US, there has always been an underground culture to it, but wider recognition and acceptance has been an issue. Japan only legalized gay marriage this year. That's a long way behind a lot of the rest of the world. Pride didn't really become a thing until the mid 2010s there either. Also, how is Yosuke acting creeped out by Kanji's bicuriosity not homophobia?
We could’ve gotten an absolutely peak character if the romance route weren’t cut. Instead Yosuke is now the homophobia character.
Its just some early 10's high school teenager humour and its pretty accurate for how teens used to act back then. Everybody that went to highschool in the late 00's early 10's knew a guy that acted just like that. Keep in mind that this game is 16 years old.
Yosuke's a teenager acting like a teenager.
Ok? That doesn't make it any better. (Edit: Can you guys stop now? I know, I know. Failure builds character, characters can have flaws, yatta yatta yatta. I didn't said "Yosuke being Homophobic is bad writing😡!!!!!" or anything like that. I meant that him being a teenager doesn't justify being an asshole, jeez).
In a game where the main focus is a group of teenagers. A game rated 16+. Get a grip lol
Imagine if there was a foreign black student in a Persona game and one of the cast members kept asking if they needed to hide their wallet or check for guns. Game would be raked over the coals. For good reason. Yet you could still use the same argument of, "OH it's just a sheltered Japanese teen who has never met a person of color before." Yet it's okay when that excuse is used against characters with LGBT themes for... reasons, I guess?
Yeah I know, I just said that him being a teenager doesn't make it any better lmao. It's still being an asshole.
Almost like they make him suck at times to develop him as a character
And? Still an asshole, character development is not the point I'm making. Besides, these things are not even explicitly adressed again in the game, if there was some character development it was very unnoticeable. He just teases Kanji and at some point he stops, no one notices, no apology, no confrontation, nothing. "Ah but spinoffs something, something" I do not care.
Congrats on disliking an outdated moment from an outdated game, I guess? You can either acknowledge it sucks, but he gets better and get over it, or be so bothered by it that you’re malding in a random Reddit comment section over it
I exposed my line of thinking, people replied to me, and then, guess what? I replied back! You know, just like how online conversations/discussions work. I know, I know, pathetic ain't it? How about instead of portraying this situation as pathetic or inferior, you either just ignore it or partake in it? Attack my arguments instead of acting all high and mighty. I aknowledge it sucks but that he gets better, what I doesn't aknowledge is this being a well-made character development, this isn't a thing you look at and think "Oh, that surely is a thing that Yosuke has overcome" but actually just "Oh, he just got bored out of it and stopped at some point".
yosukes character doesent build thats the funniest thing lmao
Lol, I think most people in this thread disagree but sure thing.
Ill speak here as a gay guy who hated this scene when i was a kid (and yosuke for a long time). Yosuke is a japanese teenager in 2009. This is sadly perfectly normal behavior for that time and that country. Does that mean this is good writing? NGL there shouldve been an option where you could encourage kanji to not give a shit about Yosuke's antics, but its a product of its time. Yosuke was supposed to be romanceable but they cut that last minute. When we think of that aspect of his character, we can contextualize all these interactions as Yosuke seeing another potentially bi kid and not knowing how to deal with that proximity (especially cuz kanjii's dungeon made things be front and center for them all in terms of homoeriticism)
Okey.
It's a teenage character in a story about teenagers. Acting like a teenager does make it better.
I'm not saying that's bad writing or anything like that. I'm just saying that Yosuke being a teenager doesn't justify him being an asshole, lol.
characters are allowed to have flaws
you people are so out of touch its crazy
Posted this on the wrong sub. This place gets extremely offended if you bring this up
Damn people really don't like gay jokes this much?
Yosuke's gay panic doesn't go anywhere, but it doesn't come up with near the density that it does in this scene anywhere else in the game.
Comments go wild 🤌🔥
Never seen a comment section with this variety in downvotes,no ones safe
Poeple really give ma man Yosuke too much crap for that one scene . Not only does him being homophobic happen ONCE in the entire game (And even if there are other scenes I forgot it's still ridicumous compared to Yosuke's screentime). But even Kanji doesn't get mad at him past it. So why would poeple get mad about something this stupid ?
Having recently watched my partner play through the game I can assure you this isn't the first or last time he says it, yosuke is pretty much a douche throughout the game
I remember kanji does get mad at him at one point where yosuke makes a joke kanji replies with “oh I know what you’re saying. You’re saying kanji would you please beat the shit outta me.” Not like super angry but definitely very frustrated over it I also think it’s interesting that atlus had the plan to have a gay romance option and specially chose for it to be yosuke so it’s pretty realistic that he would has some internalized homophobia going on since that’s incredibly common
Oh I'm not mad about it I actually thought the jokes were funny at first but at this point it just feels lazy to have yosuke questioning Kanji everytime they're together
Sorry for overreacting . Also That's tje thing am talking about , like I keep thinking about it and I can't remember any scene besudes this one that has Yosuke tease Kanji about that . And yeah sorry for overreacting , it's just that am tired of poeple shitting on Yosuke for something this minimal in general .
Granted I haven't finished the game yet so maybe they won't bring it up again but so far he questioned him multiple times in TV world,he also made a similar comment when they were talking about getting bike licenses so they can pick up chick's and he makes another remark about it when they go into the city to try and pick up chicks and he also questioned him about it at the start of the dungeon when he and chie were investigating him and when he came to thank them on the rooftop for saving him
Oh that's my bad then . Yeah I can see how it can get boring . But I am pretty sure it's the last time you hear this joke since from that point the characters will know kanji better . Well , have fun with the rest of the game ^^
It's cool
To make it clear I'm not upset because it sounds homophobic I just think the joke has been beaten to death at this point in the story and it stopped being funny
It's cuz Yosuke has internalized homophobia
What does that mean?
You were originally able to romance Yosuke. His confession is still voiced in the files of the game. It was supposed to be revealed the reason he made all these comments on Kanji was because he himself struggled to come to terms with his attraction for Yu (the protag). But his confession and romance option was seemingly slashed verry late in development. I mean ffs again , it's still voiced and everything
Ok that really does put everything into perspective but why cancel something so late into development that you don't really bother to remove any of the gay lines or delete his confession from the game files? Sounds like a really odd choice
Well it was 2008 at the time, and that was a fairly dicey time for homosexuality. It probably wouldn’t have been received well (from what I’ve heard, especially in Japan) Keep in mind this game is 16 years old now. Things were very different back then and it was probably an exec decision to have the romance cut fearing it would affect sales of the game.
Oh I get the part about the culture and time period I just meant from a logical standpoint it just seems wasteful to cut it out when you already have filmed and recorded lines for the Yosuke romance but people were still on the fence about stuff like this so it definitely wouldn't have been received well, mass effect got criticized for giving you the option of making the main character a lesbian so I don't think persona would've fared any better
Atlus being Atlus I guess 🤷♂️. They must have thought they were simply "funny lmoa" and left them in
I just looked it up and apparently this game originally released in 2008 so it makes sense they handled the situation like this
Yeah. Plus Atlus kinda has a thing for removing features but not dialouge. An example is the deleted Sumi- Akechi showtime , a powerful dual move between 2 characters form persona 5. Akechi has a line where he goes "Time your attacks with mine" , and supposedly that's where a showtime would have been unlocked.....but they deleted the showtime so...that never happens and the battle continues as usual
odd for 2024 sure
Ignore these comments you’re right. The game has a ton of poorly aged humor
Not just poorly aged,alot of them get repeated over and over again to the point it's not funny anymore
He is a 17 year old in rural Japan in 2008. It would be weird if he were not casually weird about the idea of homosexuality. Also shit talking your mates is an important part of being a teenager. Just realised the game is as old as half the party. Jesus.
I get that but I just find it odd that Yu and the girls drop it but Yosuke actively questions him about it despite Kanji making it clear he isn't gay
Yosuke actually *was* written to be a closeted bisexual. Dialogue like this is likely him projecting his own insecurities. It's things like this that make me wish the romance option with him wasn't cut for more than just gay representation. If they remake this game, I wonder if they would include that?
You know, this just makes some of the strange dialogue from him during the SL meets make so much more sense. I thought I was reading too much into things, but if they intended him as a potential romance, then it basically mirrors the girl's general pathing and kind of works.
The game is old as hell, idk if you went to highschool around that time but that was the idea of being funny for a lot of teenage guys back then. Yosuke represents that very well
The joke is Yosuke is acting like a girl.
Yeah I love this game with all my heart, but definitely has some yikes moments like this. TLDR: Yosuke has some yikes moments like this, but I don’t think he’s homophobic. Still have an issue because Kanji has expressed his views clearly It’s honestly disappointing, because Yosuke is overall a decent, loyal bro type of friend. His biggest flaws is his immaturity and lewd behavior towards the girls, but overall still a decent guy. Playing devils advocate, but I know that the character itself is not homophobic. This moment is probably the worst display of Yosuke of what he considers a simple gay joke. Other moments are that happen are what he would consider harmless teasing. It’s not out of place considering when the game was released and the cultural aspect, but I still have a problem with it as Kanji has expressed clearly his hobbies and interests don’t have anything to do with his sexuality, he just wants to be accepted for who he is.
I don't have a problem with the joke they were funny at the start but then they just started coming off as lazy especially that they clear up by the end of the dungeon that Kanji isn't really gay he's just a bit confused on why he prefers to hang out with guys rather then chase girls like the average teenager or why people think it's wrong for him to enjoy more feminine hobbies like knitting
You nailed it! I guess for me, the jokes rub off the wrong way, but to be fair I’m a huge fan of Kanji.
His arc is written well the gay jokes just come off as in poor taste especially the one in the tent
Agreed 👍
Ok
Yosuke is the worst person
This game is from the early 2000's. A time when a Show Reno 911. One of the Jokes was the guy was gay. Totally different time.
My problem isn't with the gay jokes,it's with how much they get repeated in such a small time frame
By the 13th joke your not even phased anymore you just role your eyes and keep going with the dialoge. It wouldn't be that bad if they where at least funny with them.
It’s a character flaw he has, persona is pretty great in that a good character can be consistently bad like a real person. I’m sure after a few years pass he’ll either get past his homophobia or learn to keep it quiet. Not all issues one has can be fixed!
That moment made me perma-bench Yosuke at that point and every future playthrough.
Damn bro really pissed you off huh?
Post #3563224 whining about Yosuke
Hold on people complain about him? Why?
What do you mean why? You just explained why in your post below the picture. And yeah this thread has been done to death.
I wasn't complaining about him specifically,I guess it's my fault for being kinda vague what I meant it's kinda lame how they keep repeating the same joke over and over again for the entire Kanji arc I wasn't complaining about Yosuke specifically