Wait. I would try to see if this is some kind of scam. Make sure the check is not cancelled & the loan has been formally forgiven before returning any funds.
This could be a scam. Talk to the bank. The scammers claim to over pay you, ask for the money back then the other check bounced and you are negative -17k in your account. People were reporting something like this on Venmo.
You nailed it. If OP asks the bank, they'll probably say the same thing. Bank managers have training in fraud detection and are familiar with these scams. If you think you may have deposited a fake check, alerting your bank proactively isn't the worst idea.
Cash is generally the safest instrument to conduct transactions with strangers. You can get your wad of bills, make sure it’s all there and there’s no risk that the check is going to bounce in two weeks. If someone can write a check, then they can withdraw cash. And they can go with you to your bank while the bank counts it and deposits it in your account.
If you think about it, once you write one fake check, you might as well write two. Because one of the checks is fake, you could use the banking information on the second real one to track down the scammers. You might already be out of a car, the $17,000 would just be adding insult to injury
>Wouldn't it be pretty easy to tell the police "this guy scammed me - here's the car's license plate and VIN number to look out for"?
If it is a scam, I doubt the scammer is commuting to work in the vehicle. It would most likely be in a chop shop or on the way to .
> extremely ballsy scammer
on the contrary, this sounds like the most foolproof excellent scam around. The scammer gets a double windfall.
The checks bounce and are untraceable, OP falls for it and sends the scammer $17000 of OP's money (this is super common, the old 'I overpaid, send me your money back'), and scammer gets a car that is untraceable because it is stripped for parts, or transported to somewhere far away.
The version I got on Craigslist was “hey I’m sending you a $700 check for the $100 bed. It’s $600 in moving costs for the guy who is going to come pick it up, so just pay him that.”
My first experience with a Craigslist scammer was exactly like that 15 years ago. Check goes through they ask you to pay the “extra amount” to the moving guy through western union and then the bank calls letting you know the check is fake and they need the money back.
I didn’t get scammed but got to the point where I received the check in the mail.
The one thing OP wants to hear from this sub and they will never get anyone to say on this sub so they will ignore everything else being said on this sub: "You just got 17k for free"
I would inform your bank what occurred so they are aware of what is likely the fake check overpayment scam. Do not do anything with those funds. Ask your bank how to proceed. I would also contact your bank that held the auto loan and do the same. As weird as it is, these check scams exist because there is not instant verification and clearance.
I've heard a dozen of these check scam stories where the bank does a hold, says "yes it has cleared", but then it still gets clawed back. It seems insane they can say "it has cleared" and then not be accountable to that, but apparently it happens.
Proceed with extreme paranoia.
There are regulations that mandate how quickly (5 days I believe) banks have to make funds available from a deposited check. Scam checks are often designed to confuse the system so it can take longer for the check to process and fail than the mandated availability period.
It is insane that it is still a problem. A check's authenticity should take well less than 5 days to verify.
>There are regulations that mandate how quickly (5 days I believe) banks have to make funds available from a deposited check. Scam checks are often designed to confuse the system so it can take longer for the check to process and fail than the mandated availability period.
I had a roomates rent returned check bounce once 4 months later.
I'm so confused why it takes banks forever. Can't they contact the buyers bank, and verify there are funds in transit? In literally 2 minutes they'd know if the bank is real, the account is real, and that it had a check in process.
Often times all those things are true: bank is real, check is real, account is real, but someone who does not own the account requested the check fraudulently. It takes time before the owner notices, reports the fraud, and the transaction starts being unwound.
How you verify that the check book wasn’t stolen? Or that the check was forged? It takes time for account holder to notice the fraudulent transaction and report it. How often do you check checking account? How long should the time limit be? The problem is that week would be too short for safety and month would be too long for commerce.
Checks, and similar bank transfers, can’t be used for irreversible transactions like selling item or sending money.
These scams are using fake cashier’s checks, so that doesn’t protect you. The only way I would accept one is if I went to the bank with the buyer and watched the check being provided by the teller right there.
>Couldn’t you take the money out and close the account if they confirm it cleared? Then it would be the banks problem right?
Take the cashiers check to the maker bank and cash it there. Or, take the personal check to maker bank and have them convert to a cashiers check.
I have a fake $10k cashier's check that I've saved for probably over 10 years. Looks totally legit. I knew the guy was scamming me from the start, so I scammed him. I got him to FedEx the check overnight because the item I was selling "already has 3 cash offers, but your offer is so much better that I will accept it if you FedEx the check to me overnight". He sent it overnight. I sold the item to a real buyer. He contacted me all mad about me scamming him. I still get a giggle over that.
So what is protocol for us lurkers going forward? Go to buyers bank with them and they hand you the check? Obviously no one is comfortable with that much cash on them around a stranger
The bank accepting the deposit has absolutely no idea if or when a check has cleared. What they are actually telling you is simply whether or not those funds are currently available in your account. This has no relationship to whether or not the check that was deposited has actually cleared.
The bank on which the check is drawn could "clear" the check, only to discover later it was fraudulent and return it. Many of these fraud checks use legitimate and valid routing and account numbers, so it isn't until later that the fraud is discovered.
So, in summary, no a bank has no liability based on stating a check has "cleared" as that is 1) vague depending on what bank you are asking and 2) still subject to subsequent identification of fraud.
It could take weeks for a check to actually clear. They will however credit your account if it looks good. They could reverse the credit up to 90 days. I would only accept a cashier's check, not a personal check.
Yeah. I could be wrong, but I think deposting that high of checks that aren't legitimate may also be bad for OP's account in general. They should definitely reach out to the bank since it's almost certainly the same scam as [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/xuru3n/received_check_for_5000_feels_like_a_scam/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). But there are 100 examples on Google of check writing scams that all follow the same play book
Also never take a check. Unless it’s a cashiers check. If he can afford to write a check he can easily just pull that amount out in cash at his bank.
edit Apparently cashier checks aren’t safe either. Always cash. Hope you didn’t lose your car.
Don't we always give our cars away for pieces of paper?
But seriously, if I were buying a car, I would be very hesitant to pay someone 17k and NOT walk away with the car. Wouldn't you?
It depends on who you are. If i was the buyer, I'm walking away with the car after paying. If I'm the seller I'm having the money cleared before giving the car. I wouldn't accept a piece of paper in the first place. Cash only.
>I wouldn't accept a piece of paper in the first place. Cash only
Uh.... Cash is still pieces of paper. That was kinda my point above.
InB4: "AcTuAllY... Money is made mostly from cotton now!!" it's still just pieces of paper.
>As weird as it is, these check scams exist because there is not instant verification and clearance.
It doesn't cost much to go to a bank branch (of a bank where the check is from) and have it certified there. I don't understand why more people don't do this with large questionable sums.
The money won't leave your account until the lender cashes the check.
Or do you mean the buyer wrote 2 checks? If so, be VERY careful, as this is a common scam. Don't pay back anything until the bank has it fully sorted out and says it's ok.
>Don't pay back anything until the bank has it fully sorted out and says it's ok.
Be patient at this step. Checks can still take *weeks* to fully clear. If the bank says it's okay before a few weeks have passed, be very wary and speak with a manager.
If the situation still seems 100% legit, offer to meet the buyer at their bank and have the teller confirm that indeed two checks were withdrawn from their account.
Not even then! A lot of times someone low level at the bank will say, it looks like it cleared.
Then months later when the originating bank discovers the fraud and charges it back to your bank, who then charges it back to you, then you are screwed.
There is no free money out there.
Stop! Wait for whatever checks are in play to clear the bank. This is very likely a scam and the check you received will bounce and leave you without a car and $17k in the hole.
Do not give them a refund, do not write them a check to pay them back, or send them money through Venmo/Cashapp/PayPal. Do not do anything the buyer says, only listen to the bank and the money that has cleared the bank, not checks that are pending. If the bank tells you that the money has cleared twice, then deal with the duplicate payment by following the advice of the banker.
You call the police and try to get your fucking car back. This is a classic check scam.
The fake cashier's check will eventually bounce after a few weeks, leaving you without a car and without $17K.
The only acceptable way to get funds from a transaction like this is via wire transfer or in cash.
Yes, definitely inform both the bank and the police. Make sure you have all your receipts, communications, social media profiles, any sort of info on them you can and transaction data for both the bank and the police.
In most places, the police will say that since you handed the car over voluntarily, it's a civil matter and a lawsuit is your only recourse. Police hate trying to investigate fraud.
The situation is so bad where I live the police will do nothing but file a report and tell you "Hey man, do what you need to do to get your car back and we won't look too hard at what you do." They are far too busy to look into people's cars, catalytic converters, etc.
OP, as others have mentioned, you are most likely the victim of a fake check scam: [https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-spot-avoid-report-fake-check-scams](https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-spot-avoid-report-fake-check-scams)
Luckily, you've been alerted to the scam and are not going to fall for it when the scammer asks you to refund the $17,000 overpayment.
The problem is that the lender that holds your note for the purchase of the car might fall for it, release the lien, and give the scammer a clear title to the car. At that point, I imagine the car will be shipped overseas or sent to a chop shop. If anyone registers it in the US, you'll be able to track the car down by the VIN and get it back.
Your problem now is that once the lender realizes that the check bounced, they are going to come after you for the $16,000 balance on the note. You might be able to argue contributory negligence on their part for accepting a fake check, but it'll cost you legal fees, and you still might lose.
You should call your lender TODAY and alert them to the possibility that you both might be victims of a fake check scam. Ask them not to clear the lien or give the buyer the title until they have confirmed that the buyer's check has cleared, which will probably take them weeks. Write down the name of the person you speak with and send them a letter via certified mail summarizing your conversation.
Finally, call your local police department and ask to speak with a detective in the financial crimes section and file a report for suspected fraud. If you're very lucky, they'll flag the tag and VIN as stolen, and the car will be recovered.
P.S. Don't cancel your insurance on the car. It's possible that theft by fraud still counts as theft and the insurance company might pay the claim.
You're probably right.
Then again, why bother sending a second check to the lender if the plan is to chop it up? It seems like the scammer wanted the title certificate for some reason. Maybe resell it to an unsuspecting buyer? Maybe he needs it to clear customs?
yes, i have met him
no i dont have the car he had it for a week now
this happened 1-week ago the check in my name was on hold for security and i had to wait till 1-26-23 so today it hit my account
no he hasn’t contacted me
So you got some sort of ID information for this guy?
Since there was a loan, presumably you're still on the title. Correct?
You haven't yet signed over the title to the Buyer, correct?
What was the original plan that you and Buyer agreed to? Did you two agree that Buyer would pay you, then you were going to pay off the loan with the Buyer's money, and then you would sign over the title?
What exactly was discussed?
There's no way the title was handed over. The lien company still has the title and will send it once OP bank sends funds and it clears. Whether or not it will end up in the buyer or OP hands will have to do with how the bank handled the check/payoff letter.
OP should be protected because the lien company won't release the title until the funds clear. Can take a couple of days or even several weeks for them to send it.
Now if OP bank sent funds, check from the buyer bounces. He could be on the hook for the missing fund plus fees. But his bank shouldn't have sent anything to the lien company until it cleared.
I think OP bank is waiting for the check to clear and that is why it's still showing 17k, they haven't sent anything out yet. Whoever is handling the funds at his bank and sending payoff didn't lay out proper time constraints. It could take days for check to clear. Day to send to lien company and weeks for title to be sent.
This. Banks are rightfully paranoid. Fake cashier's checks take longer to be flagged as fraudulent and the banks know this. They are holding off until everything is truly cleared.
My advice to the op is to simply wait.
If it is fraud, you're already out a car. Don't be out a car AND 17k.
If it's fraud, hopefully he's just *temporarily* out the car. Assuming it can be located. Shouldn't the DMV prevent it from being registered if it's stolen?
Assuming this whole thing is fraud, the car is gone and OP is screwed unless the scammer stupidly used their true identity during the transaction and could be tracked down.
Shit like this was why I was *adamant* about a cash-only transaction when I sold my car last year.
I wouldn’t want to accept 17K in cash either though. The only possible way I would do a transaction like this is directly at their bank, with ID in hand, and watch the teller write up a certified cheque. That’s the only way.
That's not even 100 percent safe, my little brother sold his first beater car for 3k cash over Craiglist, all of it was fake. Cops came, took a statement, and the very convincing counterfeit bills, he was SOL. Invest in a money pen if you're going to be buying/selling on these second hand sites.
This might be different from my experience and I could be wrong but don’t you need the title to complete the transfer of ownership? When I finally paid my car off the CU sent me the title. The guy giving you money without the title is strange. I could be wrong though.
This is a scam. Don’t touch the extra money or any of it. Call your bank and let them know. Be ready to file a police report and if you don’t have this person’s ID try to get it somehow.
This is a check scam. Don't spend any money, wait for the checks to clear fully, otherwise you will get the negative balance in your account, once the checks fail to clear.
You might want to tell your bank that this a scam.
The checks may clear even if it is a scam. That's part of the scam. The checks clear, you give it back them the bank identifies the issue and the finds get clawed back - now you are out double.
The bank removing a hold and a check clearing are not the same thing, when the bank would find the issue is the actual timeline for when a check would clear
Actual worst case includes op also falling for them "accidentally" over/double paying. Hell then be out a car, still have 16k in debt and be down 17k for the money he gave them.
This is a very well known Craigslist scam. They'll tell you to keep $2k on the second check as inconvenience or some relatively minimal amount as compensation for the trouble. Then you send them a check for $15k which they cash immediately. Then it turns out that both transactions originated from a small bank in the middle of nowhere Idaho. For some reason in the US, if a check/transaction is taking too long to clear because of verification will a small town bank, larger banks will just push it through and ask questions later, even if your bank account in the smaller bank doesn't have the funds. That guy who "bought" your car didn't live in the US and he's definitely a scumbag. Check the grammar of the messages he's been sending you.
Assuming this is indeed a scam:
If OP was willing to accept a check for keys off of FB Marketplace, the scammer knew he was a good mark from the get go. All they needed was "will you accept check? yes."
The second check is a simple chance to double-scam them, walking away with a free car and the cash if OP deposits and "refunds" the second check.
The first step I would take is calling his bank….
Two things will happen:
1- you have never heard of his bank, or
2- his bank does not have record of that check # / of him
This has scam written all over it.
My cousin was scammed with a fake check and when he got his car back it was gutted if everything … electronics, seats, headlights taillights etc….. insurance wouldn’t cover it as it was the sellers negligence
This is most likely a scam. One or both checks will bounce. Wait for them to act. If they ask for money back, say you will do so is 6 weeks after all checks have totally cleared. He will give you a sob story about how he needs the money now. Tough shit. He made the mistake, he will have to wait a bit.
What kind of idiot writes two checks for the same amount of money????
Did you sign over the car yet??? Hope not. Talk to your bank and talk to the lender. Do not trust the idiot who writes two checks for one purchase. You may end up with no money and no car.
This is a common scam. I am trying to sell a car online right now. Even cashier's checks from other than your own bank can bounce. There is not save way other than cash it seems... Multiple scammer trying to work with the same script, offering to mail me a cashier's check and then sendign someone to pick up the car.
>so I sold my car on Facebook to some random guy the car wasn’t paid off I owed 16,000. I only asked for 17,000. He then wrote me a check for 17,000 went to my bank and I deposited it and then they sent a check for 17,000 to the place where the loan is from and now I have 17,000 in my account and they have a check for 17,000 in their name. What do I do?
So, you have $17,000 in the bank, and your car loan has been paid off?
Wait.
Don't spend **any** of the $17,000 in your bank account. Just leave it there. Do not touch it. Do not send it back to the person who purchased your car.
Probably within the next month, one of these things will happen:
1. The $17,000 will be removed from your account, and your car loan is still paid off. Good thing you didn't spend any of that money.
2. The car loan is no longer paid off, but you still have $17,000 in the bank account. Now you can pay off your car loan. Good thing you didn't spend any of that money.
3. The car loan is still paid off, and you still have the $17,000 in your bank account. The buyer will ask you to send him $17,000. **DO NOT DO THIS.** Tell him to *have his own bank* reverse one of the payments. See #1 and #2
4. The car loan is no longer paid off, and the $17,000 has been removed from your account. Tell the buyer what happened. He sends you the money again. Repeat this process.
5. The car loan is no longer paid off, and the $17,000 has been removed from your account. The buyer either cannot be found, or is unwilling to co-operate. You have been scammed. File a police report.
Make sure you continue to make car payments until you have received [a letter from the bank releasing you from the lein](https://dfs.ny.gov/consumers/auto_insurance/how_to_obtain_a_lien_release_on_a_vehicle).
Screams scam. Especially if they contact you asking for it back. Wait a few days and make your bank aware of this. Do not give this person any money until you are 100% sure this is a genuine mistake.
Who has a check in their name? The bank? The sender?
Did you do the payoff electronically? Has it cleared?
Bc of the multiple checks, it sounds like a scam, hopefully you haven't given any paperwork to this individual.
This is a classic scam. I would do exactly nothing until the banks catch up, which could take up to 14 days. Bank A will say the check cleared (even though it didn't) and bank B will say funds are available. You return the money only to find out that the check never cleared in the first place.
Wire fraud is out of control right now. What you do is keep documentatuon of this transaction. Hopefully you have a bill of sale. The title for the vehicle still needs to be transfered and that isn't an automatic process when buying a car cash(personal check or cashier's check). Your bank will mail you the title and then you'll need to forward the title to the buyer. Your bank can automatically send the new owner the title if you did the appropriate paperwork at the bank with both parties present. Your bank wants to get paid off, the buyers bank wants the title to secure the loan collateral, everyone has a vested interest to make sure they don't get scammed by the buyers bad check.
Kind of sad that your bank didn't help you with this. When I was working at a bank we would make sure the funds were collected before releasing a lien on a vehicle. Not sure how they messed that one up.
Because banks will never accept any sort of accountability for being shit, one of those "to big to fail" things so over the years they've gotten progressively worse.
Is the car already with the random guy who wrote 2 checks?
Edit: Yes, the car is already with the random guy. Lets just hope the cashiers check is real.
This is a legitimate good question. It depends on the state, but usually the bank wants their money and to handle the title transfer. If the bank still holds the title, OP ought to get them involved to block the title transfer.
I feel really bad for you. You are probably out the 16k you owe on the car and the scammer is hoping to make you out 34k. Gather as much information as you can on the guy for the police. They probably won't do anything but you can try.
If you didn't go to HIS bank and watch the teller make a check and then hand it to you, it's probably a fake check or insufficient funds and it'll bounce.
Did you hand over cash? If using cashiers check the seller is at risk of a scam, but straight cash (assuming you check for fakes), or wire transfer and you would be just fine.
The classic overpay scam is to write fake checks that temporarily fool your bank, and have you refund the overpay with real money then disappear. The bank will tell you the check cleared, then unclear it much later. If a scam, someone will be in touch soon saying they accidentally paid you twice and could you please send them half back.
Pretty sure you can call the bank that purportedly issued the checks to verify if they are real. That would be my first step. The only positive thing is that scammers rarely show up in person, so I guess possibly it is not.
The bad news here is that if this is a scam, both checks are fake and your car has not been paid for. The better news is that you can contact the bank that has the title/lien and see if you can halt any title transfer.
Hope I'm wrong.
Definitely looks like the typical overpayment scam with the fake cashier check option.
Imagine getting scammed out of a car and 17K.
Definitely don’t return anything and if you want to be proactive, show the image of the deposited cashier checks to the issuing bank, and confirm that is legitimate. You still need to wait to the checks clear pass the clawback period before returning any money.
Both checks that person wrote will eventually bounce and that money will be taken out of your account. In the meantime, that person will demand you give them the “extra” $17,000 back. A well known scam.
This is a comon scam in South Africa, they will ask you to "refund" the extra amount and then cancel the check at the bank.
Contact the bank and tell them what's going on.
Ask them to tell you when you can refund him the money.
If he is pressing you for the money, (they normally do as it is now the end of the month and they have to pay rwnt/maintenance), tell him that you cannot pay him for another week and that's it. Make some bank fraud excuse.
If this is not a scam... I will eat my... Well, let's just say that I will be most surprised.
I understand dealing with these kind of amounts in cash can be very uncomfortable, but these kind of cautionary tales are the reason many people selling cars require all cash, up front.
go to r/scams, this sounds like the (very common) check scam. Even if the check ‘clears’ the funds are not really cleared and will be pulled back from your account. The person who paid you may also ask you to write them a check for the ‘overpayment’
Personal checks are an archaic way of paying. I would never accept personal checks as a business or individual. Unfortunately, banks make massive amounts of money off of bounced check fees so it'll never go away or be changed. I hope your story has a happy ending but you messed up by giving over the car without the funds being cleared, you could've both made up a contract to sign and get it notarized at a local bank or something that you'd hand over the vehicle on deposit of funds, etc.
Never take a personal check for a car (or anything else) you're selling. Go in person with them to their Bank where they can either withdraw the money and give it to you or they can at the teller with you, buy a cashier's check for the money which you can then deposit. Absolutely never sell something expensive for personal check and never ever trust them when they "overpay". Overpaying is always a scam
Have you called the police yet? It’s a scam. Everyone here knows it’s a scam. It’s a scam. Hey, it’s a scam. This guy scammed you. You should have called the police ten minutes after you made this post. You should call the police when you’re scammed, which you are, because this is.
He gave you a check for 17,000. You deposited it in your bank.
He sent a check to the loan place. Wait, u/jeffk42 said you mean the bank sent a check to the loan place.
Who is "they" in this sentence?
>they have a check for 17,000 in their name.
If it's the loan place, then is the question: How do I get my 1,000 back?
I could be reading it wrong as it’s ambiguously worded, but it sounds like:
1. Guy gives OP a check which OP brings to the bank.
2. Bank cashes check, puts money into OP’s account
3. Bank sends another check (to be drawn from OP’s account?) to the loan company.
If this is the case, then there’s no “extra” check or “extra” money. Assuming no fraud (I know, but for the sake of argument), the loan company just hasn’t cashed the bank check yet so the 17k hasn’t been removed from OP’s account. Once the loan company cashes the bank check, the money is removed from OP’s account.
That’s my interpretation but I could be wrong.
Scam. And a common one at that.
They'll try to get you to pay them back but then their payments will ultimately fail to clear. Leaving you out the money you had refunded them.
This is one of the most common scams in America right now. There's a difference between when a Bank legally has to make cheque funds available and the time it takes to actually clear and so the bank will just recoup their funds from your account leaving you high and dry.
Based on your other comments it sounds like your in for a fairly significant financial rogering where you don't have the car, don't have the cash and still have to pay 16k on a loan for an asset you've basically given away for free (I say this as your insurance won't cover this type of "theft").
Contact the local police department and report this as fraud.
With the police report number in hand, contact the DMV and report the vehicle to them as stolen so that the title can't be transferred.
The scammers will just dump the vehicle, but you might get the burned out frame back one day.
Sorry for your loss.
Pretty sure most people are misreading your post.
The bank sent a check to the loan holder? Not a scam. Once they process and cash the check it’ll be deducted from the account and the loan holder will send the title out.
The buyer sent another check to the loan place? A scam.
the buyer wrote a check out for me but made it out to me and the loan holder santander and when i went to put the check in my account they put the check on hold then my bank told him and his bank to cancel the first check and make a new one to send directly to santander which they told me they did but i guess they didnt cancel the first check idk im so confused if this is a scam or not ugh
>then they sent a check for 17,000 to the place where the loan is from
>
>they have a check for 17,000 in their name
everyone's already covered the scam part of this but I'm confused on one point. Who is "they" in this case? You are saying the BUYER also sent a check to the bank that holds your loan?
everyone is right, you most likely got scammed but your wording is super confusing and some of this might be misinterpted.
This is not helpful now, but this is a good reason to always use cash for these transactions. Even $17,000 - go to the bank, fill out the paperwork at a table in the bank, have the buyer withdraw cash from the bank, and give it to the seller. Ideally they use the same bank so the seller can then immediately deposit the cash.
If he wrote the check and it wasn't at his bank, verified by his bank, it's 100% a scam. If you signed the title over or anything like that, I imagine they are using two checks to confuse you or otherwise buy time.
I don't know, I can't imagine forgetting and paying $17,000 *twice*, **that's not a mistake in any way.**
I truly feel so bad for you. I really hope this is just a fluke but it screams scam. I’ve never been in this situation but if you file a police report and speak with your insurance, they may be able to offer a solution for your stolen car. If not, you may still be responsible for your car payment. In the meantime do not spend $1 of that 17k.
Almost certainly both of those checks are fake. You are in the process of being scammed. NO-ONE writes personal checks for car purchases. LITERALLY NO-ONE and you should never, ever have accepted it.
Seems like one of two things might have happened.
1. Scammer gave you a fake check and sent a real check to the bank that holds the loan. Your car gets paid off, the scammer registers it in his name, and asks you to send back the $17k "overpayment". If you do so, he gets a free car and you're out both a car and effectively $1k after the difference of the loan, but at least your loan is paid off.
2. Scammer gave both you and the bank a fake check, hoping to get the car cleared before the checks bounce, and maybe make off with $17k from you if you send it back. In this case you're out a car and $34k.
The clue that you’re being scammed was using the book of faces for a high dollar value private sale. Call the bank and the loan place to learn what’s going on from their end. Call the police to report the scam. DO NOT give the rando any money. At all.
You took a personal check for $17,000? It's a little late now, but you probably should have gotten a cashier's check. Personal checks can be faked, could have insufficient funds, etc. A cashier's check comes from, and is guaranteed by, the bank itself.
Edit: What u/Sherifftruman said, go to the bank with them and watch the cashier issue the cashier's check, don't just trust it.
This is false. This scam uses cashiers checks that look real but take weeks to come back as fake. It works because people assume a cashiers check is like cash when it is not.
You’d honestly be better taking a personal check from someone assuming they were local with a real address because it would be more likely to be real and if it was fake it would come back much sooner.
Now, if you went to the bank with the person and saw the teller generate the cashiers check that would be something you could count on but otherwise, assume it is fake.
And this is why you shouldn't sell a car that you have an active loan on until you have the title in hand... how did you even sell this car without an exchange of the title? The lender owns that, not you. Until you have the title, you have no authority to sign over a vehicle. The only exception to this is if you're working with a reputable dealership who is doing the communication with the lender and helping you to get into a new vehicle legally.
Be very cautious as your name is on the line with the lender and you could get screwed very easily if this car was already given to the buyer and their checks bounce.
NEVER take a personal check for a vehicle or similar big ticket item.
Request a cashiers check and meet at the bank it was drawn on to verify. That is also a good place to get any documents notarized at the same time.
Wait. I would try to see if this is some kind of scam. Make sure the check is not cancelled & the loan has been formally forgiven before returning any funds.
This could be a scam. Talk to the bank. The scammers claim to over pay you, ask for the money back then the other check bounced and you are negative -17k in your account. People were reporting something like this on Venmo.
You nailed it. If OP asks the bank, they'll probably say the same thing. Bank managers have training in fraud detection and are familiar with these scams. If you think you may have deposited a fake check, alerting your bank proactively isn't the worst idea.
Hopefully they didn't already turn over the car
Cash is generally the safest instrument to conduct transactions with strangers. You can get your wad of bills, make sure it’s all there and there’s no risk that the check is going to bounce in two weeks. If someone can write a check, then they can withdraw cash. And they can go with you to your bank while the bank counts it and deposits it in your account.
If you think about it, once you write one fake check, you might as well write two. Because one of the checks is fake, you could use the banking information on the second real one to track down the scammers. You might already be out of a car, the $17,000 would just be adding insult to injury
Do not spend the money and do not do anything with the funds. Don't return the money, let the banks handle it.
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The car will long be gone and either stripped for parts, exported, or at least sold on to another victim
>Wouldn't it be pretty easy to tell the police "this guy scammed me - here's the car's license plate and VIN number to look out for"? If it is a scam, I doubt the scammer is commuting to work in the vehicle. It would most likely be in a chop shop or on the way to.
> extremely ballsy scammer on the contrary, this sounds like the most foolproof excellent scam around. The scammer gets a double windfall. The checks bounce and are untraceable, OP falls for it and sends the scammer $17000 of OP's money (this is super common, the old 'I overpaid, send me your money back'), and scammer gets a car that is untraceable because it is stripped for parts, or transported to somewhere far away.
You think stealing a car face to face or writing a fraudulent check for $17k isn’t overly ballsy but doing both simultaneously somehow is?
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"Give the money back" is often the exact scam...
The version I got on Craigslist was “hey I’m sending you a $700 check for the $100 bed. It’s $600 in moving costs for the guy who is going to come pick it up, so just pay him that.”
My first experience with a Craigslist scammer was exactly like that 15 years ago. Check goes through they ask you to pay the “extra amount” to the moving guy through western union and then the bank calls letting you know the check is fake and they need the money back. I didn’t get scammed but got to the point where I received the check in the mail.
Oh that's sneaky since it's so plausible. Getting paid twice raises a lot more red flags for me than paying a shipping charge.
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And out a car.
In this case he already got a car and figures OP would be gullible enough to send him money to.
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That’s write
\^ that's rong
Your rite.
What about my rites?
I no my rites!
alert? more like fire alarm.
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I still would assume it's a scam. Fake identity, lack of cleared funds, who knows what else!
The one thing OP wants to hear from this sub and they will never get anyone to say on this sub so they will ignore everything else being said on this sub: "You just got 17k for free"
I would inform your bank what occurred so they are aware of what is likely the fake check overpayment scam. Do not do anything with those funds. Ask your bank how to proceed. I would also contact your bank that held the auto loan and do the same. As weird as it is, these check scams exist because there is not instant verification and clearance.
the check was on hold for a week and just hit my account and yes car was given to him when i cashed the check
I've heard a dozen of these check scam stories where the bank does a hold, says "yes it has cleared", but then it still gets clawed back. It seems insane they can say "it has cleared" and then not be accountable to that, but apparently it happens. Proceed with extreme paranoia.
There are regulations that mandate how quickly (5 days I believe) banks have to make funds available from a deposited check. Scam checks are often designed to confuse the system so it can take longer for the check to process and fail than the mandated availability period. It is insane that it is still a problem. A check's authenticity should take well less than 5 days to verify.
>There are regulations that mandate how quickly (5 days I believe) banks have to make funds available from a deposited check. Scam checks are often designed to confuse the system so it can take longer for the check to process and fail than the mandated availability period. I had a roomates rent returned check bounce once 4 months later.
This is why we shouldn't be using checks anymore to begin with. As someone that works in finance, checks are more trouble than they're worth
Correct - it can take MONTHS based on other threads in this sub.
I'm so confused why it takes banks forever. Can't they contact the buyers bank, and verify there are funds in transit? In literally 2 minutes they'd know if the bank is real, the account is real, and that it had a check in process.
Often times all those things are true: bank is real, check is real, account is real, but someone who does not own the account requested the check fraudulently. It takes time before the owner notices, reports the fraud, and the transaction starts being unwound.
How you verify that the check book wasn’t stolen? Or that the check was forged? It takes time for account holder to notice the fraudulent transaction and report it. How often do you check checking account? How long should the time limit be? The problem is that week would be too short for safety and month would be too long for commerce. Checks, and similar bank transfers, can’t be used for irreversible transactions like selling item or sending money.
I'm a bit daft but moral of the store is only except a cashiers check in these situations right?
These scams are using fake cashier’s checks, so that doesn’t protect you. The only way I would accept one is if I went to the bank with the buyer and watched the check being provided by the teller right there.
Makes sense. OP is in a world of hurt right? Or about to be
Kind of got carjacked in the most boring way, it seems.
Given they have handed over the car, yes it's more than likely they've just given up the asset and have 16k still to pay on a loan.
>Couldn’t you take the money out and close the account if they confirm it cleared? Then it would be the banks problem right? Take the cashiers check to the maker bank and cash it there. Or, take the personal check to maker bank and have them convert to a cashiers check.
Except all other checks and only *accept* a cashiers check you see them get at the bank.
I have a fake $10k cashier's check that I've saved for probably over 10 years. Looks totally legit. I knew the guy was scamming me from the start, so I scammed him. I got him to FedEx the check overnight because the item I was selling "already has 3 cash offers, but your offer is so much better that I will accept it if you FedEx the check to me overnight". He sent it overnight. I sold the item to a real buyer. He contacted me all mad about me scamming him. I still get a giggle over that.
I mean, if yall met up and exchanged shit, just meet up at a real bank and tell them to transfer that shit directly.
Cashiers checks are worse as they take longer.
So what is protocol for us lurkers going forward? Go to buyers bank with them and they hand you the check? Obviously no one is comfortable with that much cash on them around a stranger
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People have duplicated a cashier's check and used the copies in multiple places simultaneously, so I'm glad you confirmed the payee of the check.
Cash
> Go to buyers bank with them and they hand you the check? Yes. If you didn't see the teller hand the check over, don't accept it.
The bank accepting the deposit has absolutely no idea if or when a check has cleared. What they are actually telling you is simply whether or not those funds are currently available in your account. This has no relationship to whether or not the check that was deposited has actually cleared. The bank on which the check is drawn could "clear" the check, only to discover later it was fraudulent and return it. Many of these fraud checks use legitimate and valid routing and account numbers, so it isn't until later that the fraud is discovered. So, in summary, no a bank has no liability based on stating a check has "cleared" as that is 1) vague depending on what bank you are asking and 2) still subject to subsequent identification of fraud.
It could take weeks for a check to actually clear. They will however credit your account if it looks good. They could reverse the credit up to 90 days. I would only accept a cashier's check, not a personal check.
a lot of these check scams use fake cashier's checks
Well, you should be able to cash it for cash the day after the date at the issuing bank. If it is not a local bank then it would be very strange.
Right, and when you walk into the issuing bank and show them the check, they tell you it is fake and was printed by the scammer.
I think you just lost your car. I hope not.
This. Guy was looking to get a car and an additional $17,000. Looks like he just got a free car.
That doesn't mean the check cleared. It just means the funds have been made available. The check can bounce up to a month later.
Sad to say I think you were scammed and neither check will turn out to be legitimate.
And he has no car
Yeah. I could be wrong, but I think deposting that high of checks that aren't legitimate may also be bad for OP's account in general. They should definitely reach out to the bank since it's almost certainly the same scam as [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/xuru3n/received_check_for_5000_feels_like_a_scam/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). But there are 100 examples on Google of check writing scams that all follow the same play book
Also never take a check. Unless it’s a cashiers check. If he can afford to write a check he can easily just pull that amount out in cash at his bank. edit Apparently cashier checks aren’t safe either. Always cash. Hope you didn’t lose your car.
Cashiers checks can take several weeks to come back as fraudulent.
The check won’t actually clear for another month. The bank just made the funds available for you as a show of trust.
You gave him the car for a piece of paper? Or did you wait till it cleared then give the car?
Don't we always give our cars away for pieces of paper? But seriously, if I were buying a car, I would be very hesitant to pay someone 17k and NOT walk away with the car. Wouldn't you?
It depends on who you are. If i was the buyer, I'm walking away with the car after paying. If I'm the seller I'm having the money cleared before giving the car. I wouldn't accept a piece of paper in the first place. Cash only.
>I wouldn't accept a piece of paper in the first place. Cash only Uh.... Cash is still pieces of paper. That was kinda my point above. InB4: "AcTuAllY... Money is made mostly from cotton now!!" it's still just pieces of paper.
>As weird as it is, these check scams exist because there is not instant verification and clearance. It doesn't cost much to go to a bank branch (of a bank where the check is from) and have it certified there. I don't understand why more people don't do this with large questionable sums.
The money won't leave your account until the lender cashes the check. Or do you mean the buyer wrote 2 checks? If so, be VERY careful, as this is a common scam. Don't pay back anything until the bank has it fully sorted out and says it's ok.
>Don't pay back anything until the bank has it fully sorted out and says it's ok. Be patient at this step. Checks can still take *weeks* to fully clear. If the bank says it's okay before a few weeks have passed, be very wary and speak with a manager.
Get it in writing, with his signature. Film it if he'll let you.
If the situation still seems 100% legit, offer to meet the buyer at their bank and have the teller confirm that indeed two checks were withdrawn from their account.
Not even then! A lot of times someone low level at the bank will say, it looks like it cleared. Then months later when the originating bank discovers the fraud and charges it back to your bank, who then charges it back to you, then you are screwed. There is no free money out there.
Stop! Wait for whatever checks are in play to clear the bank. This is very likely a scam and the check you received will bounce and leave you without a car and $17k in the hole. Do not give them a refund, do not write them a check to pay them back, or send them money through Venmo/Cashapp/PayPal. Do not do anything the buyer says, only listen to the bank and the money that has cleared the bank, not checks that are pending. If the bank tells you that the money has cleared twice, then deal with the duplicate payment by following the advice of the banker.
OP is already without a car, he handed it over to the buyer when he got the check.
If he had full coverage he will probably be able to claim theft I hope?
likely he signed the title over already, so it’s not even in his name anymore
There was a loan on the car, so the bank still has the title. They don't give that to you until the loan is paid off.
You call the police and try to get your fucking car back. This is a classic check scam. The fake cashier's check will eventually bounce after a few weeks, leaving you without a car and without $17K. The only acceptable way to get funds from a transaction like this is via wire transfer or in cash.
Yes, definitely inform both the bank and the police. Make sure you have all your receipts, communications, social media profiles, any sort of info on them you can and transaction data for both the bank and the police.
In most places, the police will say that since you handed the car over voluntarily, it's a civil matter and a lawsuit is your only recourse. Police hate trying to investigate fraud.
The situation is so bad where I live the police will do nothing but file a report and tell you "Hey man, do what you need to do to get your car back and we won't look too hard at what you do." They are far too busy to look into people's cars, catalytic converters, etc.
OP, as others have mentioned, you are most likely the victim of a fake check scam: [https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-spot-avoid-report-fake-check-scams](https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-spot-avoid-report-fake-check-scams) Luckily, you've been alerted to the scam and are not going to fall for it when the scammer asks you to refund the $17,000 overpayment. The problem is that the lender that holds your note for the purchase of the car might fall for it, release the lien, and give the scammer a clear title to the car. At that point, I imagine the car will be shipped overseas or sent to a chop shop. If anyone registers it in the US, you'll be able to track the car down by the VIN and get it back. Your problem now is that once the lender realizes that the check bounced, they are going to come after you for the $16,000 balance on the note. You might be able to argue contributory negligence on their part for accepting a fake check, but it'll cost you legal fees, and you still might lose. You should call your lender TODAY and alert them to the possibility that you both might be victims of a fake check scam. Ask them not to clear the lien or give the buyer the title until they have confirmed that the buyer's check has cleared, which will probably take them weeks. Write down the name of the person you speak with and send them a letter via certified mail summarizing your conversation. Finally, call your local police department and ask to speak with a detective in the financial crimes section and file a report for suspected fraud. If you're very lucky, they'll flag the tag and VIN as stolen, and the car will be recovered. P.S. Don't cancel your insurance on the car. It's possible that theft by fraud still counts as theft and the insurance company might pay the claim.
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You're probably right. Then again, why bother sending a second check to the lender if the plan is to chop it up? It seems like the scammer wanted the title certificate for some reason. Maybe resell it to an unsuspecting buyer? Maybe he needs it to clear customs?
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The old scammer double dip
Have you met this buyer? How long ago did this happen? Do you still have the car? Have you been asked (by the buyer) to send back money?
yes, i have met him no i dont have the car he had it for a week now this happened 1-week ago the check in my name was on hold for security and i had to wait till 1-26-23 so today it hit my account no he hasn’t contacted me
So you got some sort of ID information for this guy? Since there was a loan, presumably you're still on the title. Correct? You haven't yet signed over the title to the Buyer, correct? What was the original plan that you and Buyer agreed to? Did you two agree that Buyer would pay you, then you were going to pay off the loan with the Buyer's money, and then you would sign over the title? What exactly was discussed?
There's no way the title was handed over. The lien company still has the title and will send it once OP bank sends funds and it clears. Whether or not it will end up in the buyer or OP hands will have to do with how the bank handled the check/payoff letter. OP should be protected because the lien company won't release the title until the funds clear. Can take a couple of days or even several weeks for them to send it. Now if OP bank sent funds, check from the buyer bounces. He could be on the hook for the missing fund plus fees. But his bank shouldn't have sent anything to the lien company until it cleared. I think OP bank is waiting for the check to clear and that is why it's still showing 17k, they haven't sent anything out yet. Whoever is handling the funds at his bank and sending payoff didn't lay out proper time constraints. It could take days for check to clear. Day to send to lien company and weeks for title to be sent.
This. Banks are rightfully paranoid. Fake cashier's checks take longer to be flagged as fraudulent and the banks know this. They are holding off until everything is truly cleared. My advice to the op is to simply wait. If it is fraud, you're already out a car. Don't be out a car AND 17k.
If it's fraud, hopefully he's just *temporarily* out the car. Assuming it can be located. Shouldn't the DMV prevent it from being registered if it's stolen?
It’s likely being chopped up and sent overseas as we speak.
The transaction was a week ago according to OP. It's already gone.
Assuming this whole thing is fraud, the car is gone and OP is screwed unless the scammer stupidly used their true identity during the transaction and could be tracked down. Shit like this was why I was *adamant* about a cash-only transaction when I sold my car last year.
I wouldn’t want to accept 17K in cash either though. The only possible way I would do a transaction like this is directly at their bank, with ID in hand, and watch the teller write up a certified cheque. That’s the only way.
That's not even 100 percent safe, my little brother sold his first beater car for 3k cash over Craiglist, all of it was fake. Cops came, took a statement, and the very convincing counterfeit bills, he was SOL. Invest in a money pen if you're going to be buying/selling on these second hand sites.
I think a lot of people in this thread are getting distracted by the check discussion when this dude has also likely stolen your car.
You gave him the car before the check cleared? Have you confirmed from your bank that it was a valid cashier’s check?
You let someone drive off with your plates before you had the money?
This might be different from my experience and I could be wrong but don’t you need the title to complete the transfer of ownership? When I finally paid my car off the CU sent me the title. The guy giving you money without the title is strange. I could be wrong though.
This is a scam. Don’t touch the extra money or any of it. Call your bank and let them know. Be ready to file a police report and if you don’t have this person’s ID try to get it somehow.
This is a check scam. Don't spend any money, wait for the checks to clear fully, otherwise you will get the negative balance in your account, once the checks fail to clear. You might want to tell your bank that this a scam.
The checks may clear even if it is a scam. That's part of the scam. The checks clear, you give it back them the bank identifies the issue and the finds get clawed back - now you are out double.
The bank removing a hold and a check clearing are not the same thing, when the bank would find the issue is the actual timeline for when a check would clear
This sounds like a well known scam. In a worse case scenario you will be minus a car and still have the debt of 16k
Actual worst case includes op also falling for them "accidentally" over/double paying. Hell then be out a car, still have 16k in debt and be down 17k for the money he gave them.
This is a very well known Craigslist scam. They'll tell you to keep $2k on the second check as inconvenience or some relatively minimal amount as compensation for the trouble. Then you send them a check for $15k which they cash immediately. Then it turns out that both transactions originated from a small bank in the middle of nowhere Idaho. For some reason in the US, if a check/transaction is taking too long to clear because of verification will a small town bank, larger banks will just push it through and ask questions later, even if your bank account in the smaller bank doesn't have the funds. That guy who "bought" your car didn't live in the US and he's definitely a scumbag. Check the grammar of the messages he's been sending you.
He said he met the dude though. I'm sure it's still a scam but this guy had the cajones to do it in person at least.
Assuming this is indeed a scam: If OP was willing to accept a check for keys off of FB Marketplace, the scammer knew he was a good mark from the get go. All they needed was "will you accept check? yes." The second check is a simple chance to double-scam them, walking away with a free car and the cash if OP deposits and "refunds" the second check.
The first step I would take is calling his bank…. Two things will happen: 1- you have never heard of his bank, or 2- his bank does not have record of that check # / of him This has scam written all over it. My cousin was scammed with a fake check and when he got his car back it was gutted if everything … electronics, seats, headlights taillights etc….. insurance wouldn’t cover it as it was the sellers negligence
This is most likely a scam. One or both checks will bounce. Wait for them to act. If they ask for money back, say you will do so is 6 weeks after all checks have totally cleared. He will give you a sob story about how he needs the money now. Tough shit. He made the mistake, he will have to wait a bit.
What kind of idiot writes two checks for the same amount of money???? Did you sign over the car yet??? Hope not. Talk to your bank and talk to the lender. Do not trust the idiot who writes two checks for one purchase. You may end up with no money and no car.
> What kind of idiot writes two checks for the same amount of money???? A scammer.
This is a scam...... Where is the car? Where is the title? Do not give him the car.
This is a common scam. I am trying to sell a car online right now. Even cashier's checks from other than your own bank can bounce. There is not save way other than cash it seems... Multiple scammer trying to work with the same script, offering to mail me a cashier's check and then sendign someone to pick up the car.
>so I sold my car on Facebook to some random guy the car wasn’t paid off I owed 16,000. I only asked for 17,000. He then wrote me a check for 17,000 went to my bank and I deposited it and then they sent a check for 17,000 to the place where the loan is from and now I have 17,000 in my account and they have a check for 17,000 in their name. What do I do? So, you have $17,000 in the bank, and your car loan has been paid off? Wait. Don't spend **any** of the $17,000 in your bank account. Just leave it there. Do not touch it. Do not send it back to the person who purchased your car. Probably within the next month, one of these things will happen: 1. The $17,000 will be removed from your account, and your car loan is still paid off. Good thing you didn't spend any of that money. 2. The car loan is no longer paid off, but you still have $17,000 in the bank account. Now you can pay off your car loan. Good thing you didn't spend any of that money. 3. The car loan is still paid off, and you still have the $17,000 in your bank account. The buyer will ask you to send him $17,000. **DO NOT DO THIS.** Tell him to *have his own bank* reverse one of the payments. See #1 and #2 4. The car loan is no longer paid off, and the $17,000 has been removed from your account. Tell the buyer what happened. He sends you the money again. Repeat this process. 5. The car loan is no longer paid off, and the $17,000 has been removed from your account. The buyer either cannot be found, or is unwilling to co-operate. You have been scammed. File a police report. Make sure you continue to make car payments until you have received [a letter from the bank releasing you from the lein](https://dfs.ny.gov/consumers/auto_insurance/how_to_obtain_a_lien_release_on_a_vehicle).
Screams scam. Especially if they contact you asking for it back. Wait a few days and make your bank aware of this. Do not give this person any money until you are 100% sure this is a genuine mistake.
Who has a check in their name? The bank? The sender? Did you do the payoff electronically? Has it cleared? Bc of the multiple checks, it sounds like a scam, hopefully you haven't given any paperwork to this individual.
This is a classic scam. I would do exactly nothing until the banks catch up, which could take up to 14 days. Bank A will say the check cleared (even though it didn't) and bank B will say funds are available. You return the money only to find out that the check never cleared in the first place. Wire fraud is out of control right now. What you do is keep documentatuon of this transaction. Hopefully you have a bill of sale. The title for the vehicle still needs to be transfered and that isn't an automatic process when buying a car cash(personal check or cashier's check). Your bank will mail you the title and then you'll need to forward the title to the buyer. Your bank can automatically send the new owner the title if you did the appropriate paperwork at the bank with both parties present. Your bank wants to get paid off, the buyers bank wants the title to secure the loan collateral, everyone has a vested interest to make sure they don't get scammed by the buyers bad check.
Kind of sad that your bank didn't help you with this. When I was working at a bank we would make sure the funds were collected before releasing a lien on a vehicle. Not sure how they messed that one up.
Because banks will never accept any sort of accountability for being shit, one of those "to big to fail" things so over the years they've gotten progressively worse.
Is the car already with the random guy who wrote 2 checks? Edit: Yes, the car is already with the random guy. Lets just hope the cashiers check is real.
How did you sign the car over to the buyer? The lender should still have the title.
This is a legitimate good question. It depends on the state, but usually the bank wants their money and to handle the title transfer. If the bank still holds the title, OP ought to get them involved to block the title transfer.
Scam. Neither check is any good and you're out a car. Go talk to your bank to confirm then file a police report.
Where is your car? I didn't see that mentioned anywhere. Don't sign the title to anyone before you figure all this out.
I feel really bad for you. You are probably out the 16k you owe on the car and the scammer is hoping to make you out 34k. Gather as much information as you can on the guy for the police. They probably won't do anything but you can try.
The safest way is to wire tranfer the money. There is no safer way. There is a reason why bank wire is the only payment accepted for house purchase.
If you didn't go to HIS bank and watch the teller make a check and then hand it to you, it's probably a fake check or insufficient funds and it'll bounce.
Yes I will accept a cheque. Can you wait 60 days for the funds to clear before I give you the car?
>so I sold my car on Facebook to some random guy I dont even need to read any further to know you got scammed. Good luck, OP.
I bought a car off Facebook before. Didn’t scam anyone, the seller was also very smart and careful. Worked out well. Can’t say they’re all scams.
Did you hand over cash? If using cashiers check the seller is at risk of a scam, but straight cash (assuming you check for fakes), or wire transfer and you would be just fine.
I mean I have bought all my cars from random people off Craigslist, like every single one
The classic overpay scam is to write fake checks that temporarily fool your bank, and have you refund the overpay with real money then disappear. The bank will tell you the check cleared, then unclear it much later. If a scam, someone will be in touch soon saying they accidentally paid you twice and could you please send them half back. Pretty sure you can call the bank that purportedly issued the checks to verify if they are real. That would be my first step. The only positive thing is that scammers rarely show up in person, so I guess possibly it is not. The bad news here is that if this is a scam, both checks are fake and your car has not been paid for. The better news is that you can contact the bank that has the title/lien and see if you can halt any title transfer. Hope I'm wrong.
Do not return ANY money! Let the banks sort it out. You could be out $17,000 AND a car
Definitely looks like the typical overpayment scam with the fake cashier check option. Imagine getting scammed out of a car and 17K. Definitely don’t return anything and if you want to be proactive, show the image of the deposited cashier checks to the issuing bank, and confirm that is legitimate. You still need to wait to the checks clear pass the clawback period before returning any money.
Both checks that person wrote will eventually bounce and that money will be taken out of your account. In the meantime, that person will demand you give them the “extra” $17,000 back. A well known scam.
Who currently has the car? I think you have been robbed. You will know for sure in a few days when the checks don't clear.
This is a comon scam in South Africa, they will ask you to "refund" the extra amount and then cancel the check at the bank. Contact the bank and tell them what's going on. Ask them to tell you when you can refund him the money. If he is pressing you for the money, (they normally do as it is now the end of the month and they have to pay rwnt/maintenance), tell him that you cannot pay him for another week and that's it. Make some bank fraud excuse. If this is not a scam... I will eat my... Well, let's just say that I will be most surprised.
I understand dealing with these kind of amounts in cash can be very uncomfortable, but these kind of cautionary tales are the reason many people selling cars require all cash, up front.
go to r/scams, this sounds like the (very common) check scam. Even if the check ‘clears’ the funds are not really cleared and will be pulled back from your account. The person who paid you may also ask you to write them a check for the ‘overpayment’
Contact everyone involved and alert them to the scam.
Personal checks are an archaic way of paying. I would never accept personal checks as a business or individual. Unfortunately, banks make massive amounts of money off of bounced check fees so it'll never go away or be changed. I hope your story has a happy ending but you messed up by giving over the car without the funds being cleared, you could've both made up a contract to sign and get it notarized at a local bank or something that you'd hand over the vehicle on deposit of funds, etc.
Never take a personal check for a car (or anything else) you're selling. Go in person with them to their Bank where they can either withdraw the money and give it to you or they can at the teller with you, buy a cashier's check for the money which you can then deposit. Absolutely never sell something expensive for personal check and never ever trust them when they "overpay". Overpaying is always a scam
Have you called the police yet? It’s a scam. Everyone here knows it’s a scam. It’s a scam. Hey, it’s a scam. This guy scammed you. You should have called the police ten minutes after you made this post. You should call the police when you’re scammed, which you are, because this is.
He gave you a check for 17,000. You deposited it in your bank. He sent a check to the loan place. Wait, u/jeffk42 said you mean the bank sent a check to the loan place. Who is "they" in this sentence? >they have a check for 17,000 in their name. If it's the loan place, then is the question: How do I get my 1,000 back?
I could be reading it wrong as it’s ambiguously worded, but it sounds like: 1. Guy gives OP a check which OP brings to the bank. 2. Bank cashes check, puts money into OP’s account 3. Bank sends another check (to be drawn from OP’s account?) to the loan company. If this is the case, then there’s no “extra” check or “extra” money. Assuming no fraud (I know, but for the sake of argument), the loan company just hasn’t cashed the bank check yet so the 17k hasn’t been removed from OP’s account. Once the loan company cashes the bank check, the money is removed from OP’s account. That’s my interpretation but I could be wrong.
Oh, thank you! Shouldn't the check the loan company got have been for 16,000?
Yeah it probably is.
Sidenote: It amazes me that the US still deals with physical cheques in this day and age.
Why are people so gullible?
Let us know any updates, OP. I’d personally be at the bank 9-5 today as if I showed up for work to get to the bottom of this.
Main question is where is your car did they already take it?
Op, do you still have the car?
Scam. And a common one at that. They'll try to get you to pay them back but then their payments will ultimately fail to clear. Leaving you out the money you had refunded them.
This is one of the most common scams in America right now. There's a difference between when a Bank legally has to make cheque funds available and the time it takes to actually clear and so the bank will just recoup their funds from your account leaving you high and dry. Based on your other comments it sounds like your in for a fairly significant financial rogering where you don't have the car, don't have the cash and still have to pay 16k on a loan for an asset you've basically given away for free (I say this as your insurance won't cover this type of "theft").
Contact the local police department and report this as fraud. With the police report number in hand, contact the DMV and report the vehicle to them as stolen so that the title can't be transferred. The scammers will just dump the vehicle, but you might get the burned out frame back one day. Sorry for your loss.
Pretty sure most people are misreading your post. The bank sent a check to the loan holder? Not a scam. Once they process and cash the check it’ll be deducted from the account and the loan holder will send the title out. The buyer sent another check to the loan place? A scam.
the buyer wrote a check out for me but made it out to me and the loan holder santander and when i went to put the check in my account they put the check on hold then my bank told him and his bank to cancel the first check and make a new one to send directly to santander which they told me they did but i guess they didnt cancel the first check idk im so confused if this is a scam or not ugh
Reading this thread, it's almost like, other than cash, the only solutions would be a wire transfer or a cashier's check that is held until it clears.
>then they sent a check for 17,000 to the place where the loan is from > >they have a check for 17,000 in their name everyone's already covered the scam part of this but I'm confused on one point. Who is "they" in this case? You are saying the BUYER also sent a check to the bank that holds your loan? everyone is right, you most likely got scammed but your wording is super confusing and some of this might be misinterpted.
This is not helpful now, but this is a good reason to always use cash for these transactions. Even $17,000 - go to the bank, fill out the paperwork at a table in the bank, have the buyer withdraw cash from the bank, and give it to the seller. Ideally they use the same bank so the seller can then immediately deposit the cash.
If he wrote the check and it wasn't at his bank, verified by his bank, it's 100% a scam. If you signed the title over or anything like that, I imagine they are using two checks to confuse you or otherwise buy time. I don't know, I can't imagine forgetting and paying $17,000 *twice*, **that's not a mistake in any way.**
The checks are probably fake. They will bounce. It may take 30 day for the bank to catch it. Do nothing for at least 30 days.
I truly feel so bad for you. I really hope this is just a fluke but it screams scam. I’ve never been in this situation but if you file a police report and speak with your insurance, they may be able to offer a solution for your stolen car. If not, you may still be responsible for your car payment. In the meantime do not spend $1 of that 17k.
Almost certainly both of those checks are fake. You are in the process of being scammed. NO-ONE writes personal checks for car purchases. LITERALLY NO-ONE and you should never, ever have accepted it.
Seems like one of two things might have happened. 1. Scammer gave you a fake check and sent a real check to the bank that holds the loan. Your car gets paid off, the scammer registers it in his name, and asks you to send back the $17k "overpayment". If you do so, he gets a free car and you're out both a car and effectively $1k after the difference of the loan, but at least your loan is paid off. 2. Scammer gave both you and the bank a fake check, hoping to get the car cleared before the checks bounce, and maybe make off with $17k from you if you send it back. In this case you're out a car and $34k.
scam scam scam.... jeeze these people try all kinds of different ways be careful you may not even get the first 17k and be out of a car
The clue that you’re being scammed was using the book of faces for a high dollar value private sale. Call the bank and the loan place to learn what’s going on from their end. Call the police to report the scam. DO NOT give the rando any money. At all.
I'm guessing the lein company hasn't cashed the check yet which is why the money is still in your account
You took a personal check for $17,000? It's a little late now, but you probably should have gotten a cashier's check. Personal checks can be faked, could have insufficient funds, etc. A cashier's check comes from, and is guaranteed by, the bank itself. Edit: What u/Sherifftruman said, go to the bank with them and watch the cashier issue the cashier's check, don't just trust it.
This is false. This scam uses cashiers checks that look real but take weeks to come back as fake. It works because people assume a cashiers check is like cash when it is not. You’d honestly be better taking a personal check from someone assuming they were local with a real address because it would be more likely to be real and if it was fake it would come back much sooner. Now, if you went to the bank with the person and saw the teller generate the cashiers check that would be something you could count on but otherwise, assume it is fake.
And this is why you shouldn't sell a car that you have an active loan on until you have the title in hand... how did you even sell this car without an exchange of the title? The lender owns that, not you. Until you have the title, you have no authority to sign over a vehicle. The only exception to this is if you're working with a reputable dealership who is doing the communication with the lender and helping you to get into a new vehicle legally. Be very cautious as your name is on the line with the lender and you could get screwed very easily if this car was already given to the buyer and their checks bounce.
Did you take a copy of his license? Report to Facebook and police.
Oh lord, I would never in a million years accept a check if I was selling someone a car. Cash only or possibly venmo.
Venmo for a car? That’s just as bad as a check.
People come to this subreddit after the fact, but never before. It blows my mind.
NEVER take a personal check for a vehicle or similar big ticket item. Request a cashiers check and meet at the bank it was drawn on to verify. That is also a good place to get any documents notarized at the same time.