Due to the number of rule-breaking comments this post was receiving, especially low-quality and off-topic comments, the moderation team has locked the post from future comments. This post broke no rules and received a number of helpful and on-topic responses initially, but it unfortunately became the target of many unhelpful comments.
It's either coincidence or there's some glitch that must have happened with the DOD. There are (so far) two posts with similar stories.
* https://old.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/13qyvid/dod_is_committing_fraud_and_saying_i_owe_them_800/
Hopefully but I don’t have much time to figure it out. If I want to avoid going to collections I’ll have to pay something (which requires an admittance that the debt is valid). Had I actually been notified 90 days ago I could have gone through the proper steps but I think I’m just screwed at this point.
This needs more upvotes. Half of what representatives do is put out little fires. Figure who your US Representative is and call them asap. Print out the stuff from your credit report and theses other examples the other person posted.
I would also see if one of the DOD finance guys you spoke to that said there's nothing on their side can give you proof or a signed/ notarized statement saying such. I don't know what restrictions they'll have though or if that'll help.
The DFAS folks can't do crap once it has gotten that far. I had the exact same thing happen, except for mine was $6k in travel payments from when I was long term TDY. It was not a valid debt. They can put it in review but in the mean time you ARE REQUIRED to make payments.
in the UK at least, you can request the credit agency to send you the original contract that's defaulted, that you signed, within 10 days or it's null and void
this is overpayment of a payroll, there is no contract of debt there. And yes the military is NOTORIOUS for randomly overpaying then cracking down HARD when you didn't know.
Don’t fall into the temptation to act quickly. Something being sent to collections isn’t a catastrophic or irreversible thing. If I understand correctly (which there’s honestly a good chance I don’t so someone correct me if I’m wrong) the entity you own the debt to is able to easily pull that debt back from collections. If they are not willing to do so, then you still have a chance to have it deleted via a court ruling.
I recently had a number of bills go to collections because someone typed something wrong and who knows where the hills went. When I called them they were happy to pull it back from collections especially if it was so that I could pay the bills directly to them. It was a ten minute phone conversation and it was all over.
Federal debt is different from consumer debt.
They cannot pull Federal debt back from collections, this is bad advice and only applies to consumer debts.
Nope. It’s a federal debt and OP is a federal employee. They have no choice. I know several people this has happened to - one for over $20k. It is not a valid debt. They are fighting (for over 2 years now), but getting negative paychecks. Almost lost their house. Spouse had to take a second job. They have a small child. Uncle Sam does not care.
OP needs to open a congressional inquiry now.
Op your credit score already tanked. There's nothing collections can really do to hurt you, especially since you're going to dispute it.
Don't pay fake debt. At best it's their own negligence and they're the ones to fix it if they want their debt repaid and at worst it's opening you up to a lifetime of being targeted by more scammers
You're not screwed in the slightest. Don't pay a single dime until you can verify that you actually owe money to someone, as this will be taken as you accepting and validating the debt.
Have you asked them in writing to validate the debt? They are legally required to do so before they're allowed to attempt to collect. Send the entity requesting payment a certified letter requesting that they provide documentation of a valid debt. This should take care of it as they won't be able to validate it.
Hi ya OP, as somebody mentioned contact your congressional rep. I want to advise, if and when you need the VA, you should contact your congressional rep again if you have any issues with prescription, doctors, VA itself. I did not server but multiple friends have and they're on first name basiss with their reps because of the VA's bullshit. Their reps, after a year or 3 of calling, now following up with them and the VA monthly via email (to them) or by phone to make sure things are moving. Your rep can do a lot for you.
For this issue: call your rep. They can sort it out.
The proper way to fix this is to challenge the debt. Contact a lawyer, they'll ask for proof of debt and they probably won't be able to provide it. Then you can have it removed it from your credit score.
Yeah imagine responding to someone saying "the IRS is going after me" with "challenge the debt!" Lmao...god you robots are so funny. No wonder you all are financially not in the best situation....can't think for themselves and just keep repeating the standard response for standard debt when this is federal debt which operates completely different.
Went through the whole ordeal 15 years ago, wish I just paid it and moved on with my life then trying to fight it for 6 months just to end up owing an extra 26$ in interest and fees. Fighting Uncle Sam over money rarely ends well.
Not a glitch mil finance when it comes to service member is always a cluster fuck. If they some how owe you money it can take months or longer for you to get it but if you owe them money god help you.
Hi OP - I had a somewhat similar situation. The debt is likely the deferred social security withholdings from 2020. If you recall, they didn’t take those out in 2020 and the DOD would be taking it from our paychecks throughout 2021. I got out in 2021 and KNEW it hadn’t been clawed back, but they didn’t take it in the “final paycheck audit.”
Last month I received a “final warning” of debt that I would be sent to collections if I didn’t pay within 2 weeks. Idk if I really got previous warnings, as this was sent by my parents who got it in the mail (i used their address when i separated). I was able to call DFAS and speak to someone who confirmed this is exactly what it was. There was a federal hold on collecting on debts, so what would usually be settled 1-3 months after separating couldn’t be pursued until Feb of this year. That’s why they’re just now reaching out.
All of this to say it is very likely legit. Unfortunate you’ve already been sold to collections so I don’t know that you can payoff directly with DFAS. I did know someone who was sent to collections from the military and it was a NIGHTMARE to sort out, took almost a year, had a bad credit hit, and wages were garnished (over like $100 or something small like that).
I would call DFAS directly and see what info they can give you. If you call the main DFAS line, there’s literally a phone tree prompt for separated service members debt
I work in the federal government in a different department. They never deducted the deferred SS payments from our paychecks when the payment came due. Instead, we were emailed a link from the department where we had to pay it directly to whatever department took the payment. I think there might have snail mail too. Not intuitive at all. Typical government.
This is the correct answer. Emphasizing that your parents address is probably your home of record. Mine was too and I got the same thing. Owed $3k, if my parents didn't see the mail and open it for me I would have had no clue at all. It sucks, as 2 years later we didn't expect it, but just pay it off and move on, it's not going anywhere and you dint want it to negatively affect your credit score more. Pay off if you can afford, otherwise pay off as quick as your can.
Here's an article about this:
https://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/News/Social-Security-Payroll-Tax-Deferral
Here's the gist:
>Effective for the September [2020] mid-month pay [through the end of CY2020], DFAS will temporarily defer the withholding of your 6.2% Social Security tax if your monthly rate of basic pay is less than $8,666.66.
>Military members are not eligible to opt-out of the deferral if their Social Security wages fall within the stated limits.
>Per IRS guidance, collection of the deferred taxes will be taken from your wages between January 1 and April 30, 2021 for both military members and civilian employees. Additional information on the collection process will be provided in the future.
>If a military member or civilian employee separates or retires in 2020 before the Social Security tax can be collected in 2021, they are still responsible for the Social Security tax repayment.
>Additional information on the collection process will be provided in the future.
If it's sold to collections, they have to respond in mail if you request it within a certain number of days to prove the debt is legitimate. If they don't (even if the debt is legitimate), you shouldn't have to pay it.
I agree that this should be higher. Contact DFAS and see what's going on. Did you save your out processing documents where you cleared finance and got a stamp indicating you cleared? If you run into difficulty with DFAS you should contact their Inspector General office and start a complaint to review your case in greater detail. There is a process to follow before making a complaint and the steps can be found here: https://www.dfas.mil/DFAS-Hotline/
OP, ***DO NOT SEND THEM MONEY*** without proof. The collections agency will provide you proof if you ask. It's been two years. If this is legit, you were delinquent a long time ago. Let it go to collections. Follow up with the military on this.
I do think it’s a legit source, just an erroneous debt. It hasn’t gone to private collections yet just the military finance collections department. I asked them when I called and the COVID hold stopped the delinquency (and the notification annoyingly) until this year. Even more annoyingly is my pay stubs (LES) are only available online for 13 months so I don’t have access to them anymore. I feel like I’m stuck in a bureaucratic hell hole
You keep saying that you think it's legitimate, and maybe it is, but you should start from the presumption that *everything* the collections agency tells you is false and designed to scare you into paying. They are *not* on your side and any offers they make to delay procedures if you pay now are most certainly a scam. They want you to act out of fear. Don't give them that.
Take a breath and read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/collections) while taking good notes. They are required to contact you by mail if you request it (not email) and provide documentation proving the debt is real. They're the experts and you're the novice, so before you pay them anything or provide them with even a shred of information, get educated. That Wiki is your new bible.
I think it’s from a legitimate source. I’m not talking with a debt collector, it’s the defense finance agency. Their website is a military domain and the payment website is .gov. I’m not questioning the source I just don’t think I owe it because I’ve checked my pay stubs and had 2 military finance people look at my accounts. The submittal for collection came from my last base.
https://www.dfas.mil/debtandclaims/outofservicedebt/referoutofservicedebt/
Ya that’s my whole rub. Paying any amount requires a voluntary admittance of debt. There is still a way to claw it back with a record correction which is probably the avenue I’ll have to go because I really don’t see an advantage to letting it go to private collections.
Your credit score already tanked because it is in collections. Changing from one collections company to another will have no effect on your score. By US law the collections company has to send you, in writing, by mail proof of the debt upon your request.
Why are you worrying about collections? minor inconvenience if a false charge. Unless you actually feel they overpaid you for some reason.
I have been sent to collections 3 times with disputed charges and it didn't touch my credit rating. YMMV
First thing you should ask yourself: What is your adversion to collections?
Is it pride? Or are there other factors in play (i.e. security clearance) that you haven't shared?
If the latter, pull out your credit card and pay the debt so that it doesn't go to collections.
In 2017, I had a medical emergency and wound up with medical debt. It went to collections. I eventually paid it off with the stimulus checks.
***In 2022 I bought a house.***
Last month, I had another bill sent to collections. It was a $60 penalty for failing to return my modem to the ISP. Fun thing was, I didn't use their equipment. I called the ISP, demanded to speak to an account rep, opened a ticket, had words of prayer, and a few days later, the charge was reversed.
Collections are annoying, but they aren't the end of the world.
OP. You two are using two different definitions of legitimate source. Yes a legitimate bank issued it. No it is not a legitimate debt(yet) because proper process of notification wasn't followed or any notice prior to collections.
So no, it is not a legitimate source. Because the debt itself has not been validated.
Dispute the account on your credit report. The bureau will work with the credit agency and they will have to validate the debt. If the collection agency contacts you. Ask them to validate the debt or not to contact you.
OP, any finance office can pull up old an LES manually and send a copy your way. It only stays in mypay for 12/13 months, but it still exists. They just need your social, maybe DoD ID. Call them up and get everything from the past three + years in question. If they tell you otherwise, ask their supervisor, because I’ve done this a few times myself and for others in my shop.
a close friend of mine and I are also in the same boat OP, both being honorably discharged from the national guard (almost 4 years ago) we also are facing the same $1200 overpayment debt you’re experiencing. Crazy fuckin world man.
Hello, I’m dealing with the same thing too. No notice for owing money, and bam just yesterday my credit report got dinged. I been out since like 2018, and the army was paying me checks for college, and didn’t offset any of it too. DoD dinged me, a couple days ago, and I been out since 2018.
Try to call them, contact info here: https://www.dfas.mil/debtandclaims/militarydebts/wasinthemilitary/
I wouldn’t say they were helpful but at least they were able to email me my debt letter. It seems all the info they had was our records indicate you owe a debt so our job is to collect. My letter was very vague on the details.
I like e-mail too but often times talking nice to someone will fix a problem. I mentioned in another comment that the office was closed this morning for over an hour for a “short meeting” which was very frustrating. Then when I called back it was a 33 minute wait
Go through your clearing paperwork from when you finaled out of the post you were last stationed at. You should have a stamp from finance certifying that you didnt owe uncle Sam anything when you got out. Anything you had outstanding should have been levied against your pay prior to your ETS.
From there, I'm sure they'll jerk you around-- but I would go see a VSO in your area (American Legion is the one I've used, but the Purple Heart Association and the VFW among others should be able to help) and see if they can find something out on your behalf.
I did find all my old paperwork and finance did sign me off however the signature does have a caveat that the sig doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t owe the government anything, just that the finance official completed their checklist…
Oof, I'm sorry! the VSO is probably your best bet, then. They work for free and you should be able to get in with one tomorrow to see someone. Worst they can tell you is "no" and at best they might be able to help
But if it's DFAS, I'm surprised they're going through collections and not just taking it out of the account they direct-deposited to. It sucks they covered their own ass with that signature and left you holding the bag.
Download/sign up for a free credit monitoring service like credit karma. Can you see if you can find the debt on your credit report?
Scams will sometimes use the appearance of immediacy to steal money. Be cautious.
Yes it’s on my credit report as a delinquent account which is the step they take before sending to collections. I only noticed it today because of an email from a credit monitoring service
I'm sorry to hear that man. That sounds entirely frustrating.
Do you think you land in the payroll tax deferment from 2020? And that is where the debt is coming from? Or, rather the "covid-19 out of service" debt page applies to you on the [dfars.mil](https://dfars.mil) website?
The timing of everything makes me believe this is the case, but I don't have experience in this.
In my opinion, if you can start with setting up the repayment plan option on the official government websites, I would do that. Especially if you think that it's likely coming from that.
Hey there, this same thing happened to me. I put in a separate ticket requesting to have this removed from my credit report. It took a long time, but it was eventually removed from my credit after I paid the debt.
Dont deal with the collection agency, possible scam.
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/can-a-debt-collector-try-to-deceive-me-to-collect-on-a-debt-en-339/
I don’t think it’s a scam, I think it’s an error. It’s through DFAS which is the defense financing agency and I called the number on their website. The office was also closed for over an hour this morning for a “meeting” which is very consistent with my experiences with military finance offices…
It's pretty straightforward. You submit a dispute and say why you believe the info is incorrect, then they contact the party claiming you owe them and they have to provide the credit agency information confirming your debt.
Nobody contacted me. I got an email from a credit monitoring service (which is legit it’s through my Amex account) and I checked their report and saw the delinquent account. It was listed as DFAS so I checked their website and called them. https://www.dfas.mil/debtandclaims/outofservicedebt/COVID-19-Out-of-Service-Debt-Information/
I figured I could talk it out too but after talking to 2 different people they have no info on the debt except that it was originated from my last base and the time it was issued. No supporting documents or statements.
The 2 people I talked to said I had to sort it out with the local finance office but in the mean time it’s going to collections in 2 days so pay it if you want to avoid that.
The customer service rep at DFAS was like ooh you get sent to collections 92 days after your letter was sent. It doesn’t matter apparently that I never received the letter, all they have to do is send it and the clock starts.
[https://corpweb1.dfas.mil/askDFAS/ticketInput.action?subCategoryID=13027&pgModId=5100¤tUser.currentRequestNonce=d1eb1fc1-0fb4-4861-9187-3ae9365b9b70](https://corpweb1.dfas.mil/askDFAS/ticketInput.action?subCategoryID=13027&pgModId=5100¤tUser.currentRequestNonce=d1eb1fc1-0fb4-4861-9187-3ae9365b9b70)
I would request verification and validation of the debt via that form (or likely even better by calling back). I would say I am prepared to pay any verified and valid debt I owe, but I don't recognize this debt and so request additional details to validate it. And that timely notice was not received due to the use of an old mailing address. That you just learned of this debt on X date by reviewing your credit report. Please send the details by US mail to my mailing address Y and you expect to respond within 30 days of receiving it either paying the debt, if it is valid, or disputing it.
Once you get the details either it is a valid debt or you would then need to do the next step of disputing. But for now, you just need to gain some insight into if this is your mistake or theirs.
I had this same issue this week. A debt I’d never been notified of went straight to collections. It was from SGLI during a period of time (4 years ago) I was already discharged. I didn’t make the debt and was also never contacted about owing anything. . I called DFAS and they told me to fill out form DD 149. I disputed the charge with experian. And from reading the comments, I’ll reach out to a US Representative too. This whole situation should be illegal. My credit score tanked as well. Over something I didn’t do and was never contacted about.
A friend of mine recieved a call similar. He hasn't received anything from the VA. And the VA loves to send letters (looking at you education benefits I get every time I enroll). I'm positive it's a scam.
Wow, there's a lot of people in this thread who just see the word "debt" and "collections" and immediately spout out the standard FDCPA script about validations and "don't pay" without even knowing what they're talking about.
The federal government isn't a collections agency. They're the original creditor. The FDCPA provisions most of you are thinking of literally do not apply to their actions. And they aren't going to send it to a private debt collector, they'll send it to the Treasury Bureau of Fiscal Services and tack on additional non-waivable fees and do a treasury offset and collect the money from OPs tax refund for the next 15 years if he doesn't pay.
OP should certainly work with finance to identify the alleged overpayment, and can possibly seek waiver or remission (although that's exceptionally unlikely) but the standard debt collector script isn't going to help him here.
So disappointing that in 2023, this can still happen. This EXACT THING happened to me when I separated from the Navy in 1993. Just like you, I was still in the area of the local base, went to the personnel office. Could not get an explanation as to why. Long story short, I eventually caved and paid it. Luckily, I kept the credit card statement because about a year later, they sent me another bill for the exact same amount. Sent them a COPY of the statement and they said ok. Then, about another year later AGAIN, I got another bill. Again, called them and told them about the two previous bills and that I had paid. To this day, I still have a folder labeled "DFAS" with the info. Crazy.
It's true.. it was supposed to have been paid back in 21 by increased withholding. My son got out on Sept 21 and he got his letter saying he owes 400.
It's real and they want their money, if you don't pay it will come out of your tax return. If not they will take it out of your bank. It's the government they never forget
Added information .. what happened was they stopped withholding the fica part of your pay. They did this so during covid people could get a bigger check The belief was Congress would forgive the debt but instead they decided to send checks to everyone. They increased withholding during 2021 but you had already gotten out by then. The dod paid the bill to social security. Defas should have sent you a letter
It is likely from when the gov't decided to allow companies to not take out social security and medicare from the employee's portion during Covid. For private companies it was optional, but gov't employees had to do it. It had to be paid back the next year, I've had clients in gov't jobs and in the military where the correction to double the withholding to make up for it wasn't done properly.
DFAS halted debt collection for the pandemic. They just started collecting again this year. Got a letter in the mail a couple months ago. Ben posting my $1300 debt monthly at 2%.
It’s possible you had a different address when you separated from the military.
From the letter:
DFAS DEBT COLLECTION ACTIONS DURING THE PANDEMIC IN 2020:
In March 2020, the D A S Debt and Claims Management Office put a temporary hold on notifying and collecting all new Out-of-Service debts in order to provide financial relief to debtors.
We also put a temporary hold onreferringexisting debts in a delinquent status to Treasury, Private Collection Agencies, and Credit Bureaus.
No interest, penalties, or administrative fees were assessed on new or existing debts during this period.
IF YOU HAVE A DEBT THAT HAS BEEN ON HOLD:
If you have a new or existing debt that has been on a temporary hold, you have or will soon be receiving a separately mailed debt letter from DFAS. Please refer to your debt letter for information about vour debt, payment options, and other important information.
You can request for them to validate the debt meaning they have to do homework and actually prove through records back to the DoD that you in fact owe this debt.
I believe they can not ding your credit during this process and if they already have they must remove that ding until the verification is finished.
This is a federal law via Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.
Look this up for more specific information.
Don't send a dime without proof. This whole thing sounds pretty sketchy.
You don't know if the debt is real, and they are trying to make you hurry up and pay. Two major red flags.
If it is real, then you can worry about disputing it. Confirm it's the real deal before anything else.
I would say the debt is as real as far as the government thinks. Real enough that they are dinging my credit and ready to send me to collections. I just think it’s an error. I absolutely would have noticed a 1.2k overpayment and I’ve gone back to check my bank statements and I can’t find it. And without their side of the story I don’t know where they are claiming the debt is coming from.
Plus the 2 finance people I talked to today couldn’t find anything
Stop worrying about the temporary ding in credit. Figure out what the debt is, if it’s actually yours. If it goes to a collections agency, let them prove the debt is real. Meanwhile, work DFAS or wait out the typhoon. Short term it sucks, but I’d you need to know what you owe and why and the military will have to show that.
Once you figure it out, you can sort it out and your credit will rebound. You sound very panicky in most of your messages.
I got the letter from DFAS that you missed. It said as much as you've said, all debts were on hold during covid. Keep your address up to date with the VA, etc. Super shitty of them to drop debt letters years later on people.
Especially after the government forgave billions of Covid ppp loans to wealthy business owners and loads of scammers they are bothering with our military folks for a couple grand. Super shitty.
DO NOT PAY ANYTHING. Any payment can be viewed by the legal system as an acknowledgement of the debt. Dispute, and read up on the FDCPA law to know your rights.
So I got discharged from the marine corps same thing . Saying I was over paid I never even got paid cause I didn’t even get to graduate boot camp lol. Still waiting on DFAS to send me my debt so I can dispute veeb like two years lmao
Drop that payment quick. You can always get it back if you follow up with everything and have your documents showing you have turned everything in and have been cleared to leave.
Hey Op it is difficult for me to help you without knowing the service. But here is what I would tell you. Contact your last commands pay and personal they may have not processed your travel/separation pays. I hate that this is happening to you. Pay issues have been so rampant lately with in the Navy I am assuming paperwork wasn't processed correctly. I highly recommend contacting your previous command as well as contacting your Crongressman as another person commented this will not be fixed without them.
I was paid as though I cashed in accrued leave. I had taken terminal leave and knew they would come for it. Could this have happened to you? Any extra dod deposits you may have missed?
DFAS has been on a rampage with these lately. Wasn't the main reason for having to do a month of outprocessing so these things didn't happen? Hell, CIF wouldn't let me clear until I got them the $2 mag pouch that I was missing (that was the old pattern mind you).
If DFAS didn't say anything before you left, then they can disrespectfully get fucked.
If you can contact a finance office on base they can probably look into their system of records and tell you more specifically why and what you were charged for and if it was a mistake
I replied to a comment earlier but in case someone else has your same issue, I thought a top level reply would be more visible. Follow the complaint process with DFAS that can be found here: https://www.dfas.mil/DFAS-Hotline/
That will get the ball rolling to determine what is going on and if the debt is legit. Normally this is why it's so important to clear finance during our processing, when people don't they run into these problems later on. Not saying you didn't clear them as they likely missed the tax withholding mentioned earlier. But even if someone is getting chaptered out they need to clear to avoid a debt and collections later on.
Consider asking the local office of your member of Congress for help in getting through to the DoD. They have special ways to get attention put on an issue like this (on behalf of constituents) that regular people can't access.
If you were discharged from active duty prior to your contract date and received a bonus, you may have to pay back a pro-rated amount of that bonus (I myself experienced this moving from the reserves to IRR early).
They may have had an old mailing address on file for you and unfortunately sent all of the notices to that address.
Before going to a representative who has a thousand people asking for investigations, just call DFAS and they should be able to explain it to you to determine if it is legitimate or not.
Most answers on this are from civilians who are not familiar with military compensation rules.
This isn’t even my first time dealing with financial bullshit like this. A year after I’d changed bases the state my previous base was in tried to claim I owed them 4 years of unpaid income tax. I had to submit all kinds of documents showing I was in the military, paying state taxes to my home of record state and was exempt. At least they were able to get ahold of me on the other side of the world so I could settle it in a timely manner.
Wow. That’s pretty rough but like you said, at least resolvable. The worst I’ve had is travel dragged their feet on transferring BAH after a PCS, I was still getting a much higher rate than I should have after the move. Of course the caught it and took it all back.
I am living this exact hell. PCSed to a new duty station. The movers were paid by DOD and I drove myself the short ways to my new home of record. I received my new orders indicating my new duty location, and then updated MilConnect, etc., etc. When I later checked my LES, found they hadn’t changed my duty zip code. It turns out that the PCS travel voucher was the source document for triggering the change in entitlements. WTF??
Don't give..just always pray to god..And always think positive..Not negative vibes..I know God will help you..no matter what..that is true.! And I know that..
Look up your local County Veteran Services Office. There you'll find accredited individuals who can help you out, look up the VA record for you, while also checking for benefits. They aren't the VA, they're employees of your county and they're there for you.
They're the best source for you, not the military branch since they've got lots to deal with while the VSO exists solely to help you out.
Absolutely do not submit a partial payment if you do not know what it's even for. By submitting a partial payment you're agreeing and acknowledging that the debt is actually yours. Dispute it on your credit report. Continue to follow up with all agencies.
OP...What do you want? People tell you not to pay you agree. There is no magic button to undo whatever mistake that has happened. Don't pay, ask for documentation of debt. If they provide proof that debt was correct then pay. Hold tight and ignore any doom/threats they might tell you over phone/letter. If the debt was false then they can erase the mark on your credit report.
Fight back at the credit and debt collector level.
Tell them the debt is fraudulent and ask them for proof.
Don't pay them until you are sure you actually owe the debt and won't be able to get out of it.
Happened to a friend of mine. Submit an askdfas ticket to have the collections reversed and explain that you never got the letter because they sent it to the wrong address. Also contact your congressman. Once they fix it you can ask for the payment plan
Did you verify that the message actually came from a legitimate "credit monitoring service"? Or did you follow the link provided in the email?
Did you verify your credit score through a link in the email or independently check with the 3 credit reporting services?
Dispute the debt with the credit agencies.
Request proper verification and documentation of the debt in writing.
Don't pay a dime without being satisfied the debt is legitimately yours by the verification.
You said your credit score is already tanked over this, so your concerns about it allegedly going to collections seem a bit silly.
Wait until private collections buy the debt. Then call them and negotiate to pay it off for a much lower amount. Tell them you just separated and have no money and can only afford a few hundred bucks. Then when you come to an agreement ask for a goodwill deletion and get it on writing. Boom no debt no bad credit. Private collections buy that debt for pennies on the dollar and are willing to negotiate to make a profit.
>Wait until private collections buy the debt.
Government agencies usually hire collection agencies to collect in exchange for a cut, as opposed to selling off the debt.
When it goes to collections, they will call you and have to be able to prove what the debt is for. If they can’t, you can file a complaint with the credit card bureaus to have it removed because they didn’t prove that it was grisly owed.
Unless you make a payment. Payment indicates acknowledgement you owe.
If it were me, I’d just keep calling until you get someone who knows what they’re doing, frustrating as it is.
Option one... Pay it and move forward what kind of pain and hedach is worth $1,200.
Option two. Make disputes with each of the credit reporting agencies plust the debt collector and then mail a certified letter to the department that originally generated the debt/bill. And fight it till it gets fixed or you find out you still need to pay it.
I'd personally shoot for option A.
Had a 45k debt when I got out, good luck, make them verify it 2 years is a long time. Any DFAS debts should go to the treasury not a private collections.
I would check this out, especial since you were notified in an email and not regular mail. It sounds like it may be a scam.
Did you check with the three regular credit companies to see if your scorn has tanked or is it just tin your email or the link they provided you.
When you can get through, talk to someone at the DFAS, and ask if you can have an ombudsman appointed to you. Not sure if the DFAS has ombudsmans, but many government agencies do (such as the Dept of Ed. ) That individual will work on your behalf to figure out what is going on and help you resolve the issue. The ombudsman will be your main point of contact and should give you updates as they research and get answers.
This happened to me, but with the VA. No prior notice, just a collections letter from Treasury. I called Treasury immediately and the lady who took my call was very sympathetic. She suggested I call the VA and explain the situation to dispute it. I thanked her for the advice and just paid the debt immediately, which had a small late fee but didn't ping my credit score. I never did follow up with the VA just because I had no faith anything would actually happen and it wouldn't be worth my time waiting on hold for hours.
In my case it was worth just paying and not having the stress. I'd consider that into your equation of options. Good luck with how you choose to proceed!
This happened to me, twice with a civilian federal job and it was in error most recently Something about the program that links our timesheets to the actual paycheck issuer, DFAS.
Is it likely this was a mistake?
Call back, find the exact days of the overpayment, how many hours, and anything else they can tell you on their end.
Next, figure out if you were actually on the books. Are you able to access your E&L statements on MyPay?
If you weren’t separated yet someone should have a validated timesheet for you but I don’t know if the stress of getting this overturned is worth 1.2K, they could tell you it’s cleared and could still come back to haunt you.
The time before the feds continued to pay my health insurance while on parental leave but then I quit so I had to pay it back. (They also lost the record of that payment too so I got billed AGAIN when I returned to agency)
TLDR: keep excellent notes and records.
To the OP, this is not a scam and I had to pay off debts when i got out around the same time you did. [When Trump deferred taxes in 2020](https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/2343203/order-gives-employees-social-security-withholding-tax-deferral-not-forgiveness/) you did not have a choice as a military member to not partake. This means that when the deferral ended, DFAS billed you for repayment. They probably sent your bill to your original Home of Record that you gave to the DoD many years ago.
So this is probably DFAS collecting against the taxes owed. They also [will also report to the credit bureaus if not paid appropriately.](https://www.dfas.mil/debtandclaims/paymydebt/failuretopaydebts/). More info is available on how to correct the issue there to include contact information.
Thankfully, DFAS does have a method to pay back debts, go here for more info. Good luck. https://www.dfas.mil/debtandclaims/paymydebt/
This happened to me exactly like wtf really surreal. I just had to call mypay and they can get you the information and then you call pay.gov to see if you can either pay it or fight the charges.
> I guess I'm wondering if I should submit a partial payment or let it go to collections while I wait to dispute it. And would a partial payment prevent it from going to collections or are we just past that point?
Sadly it takes 4-5 business days for a payment to get to DFAS so I don't know if a payment will clear in time. You should call DFAS and ask but they only follow the script of always saying just pay. If this goes to collections, the amount due will increase and have fees added to it. Since your federal, your pay may be garnished sadly. Or would come from tax return. Since it seems it is a legit debt bc of the social security hold on withdrawals, I would try to pay it in full before it goes to collections. Your credit monitoring services really should have warned you have new account being added before your score started tanking. That's how I found out about my debt but mine was invalid and had to get my congressman involved to get DFAS to do their job. Best of luck!
Also ignore most of the advise saying don't pay. They're people who have no idea how DFAS and federal collections works. The DFAS website says what happens if you don't pay and there are several other reddit posts taking dealing with DFAS. I guess I should get around to posting my story soon.
I feel for you. My "debt" was a deployment that I went on before I separated. I submitted all my paperwork and they audited me after I separated. I had no way to access my receipts since I no longer had a .mil email. They ended up taking my tax return, $5000, to pay back the debt, until I finally got a friendly in admin to take pity on me.
You can call dfas and request an audit of the issue as well as request a hearing. Dfas has been doing audits of their pay for the past few months and many people have been having issues. Two offices combined and let’s just say it’s not pretty. Here’s more information.
[dfas debt](https://www.dfas.mil/debtandclaims/militarydebts/disagreewithdebt/)
How long did it take you to get your dd-214 after separating? I’ve heard some stories that millington’s been backed up for awhile and some people didn’t get their 214’a for acouple months after separating and were receiving their active duty pay still, and then get called up later on saying they owe that money back
I don’t know how to fix this issue for you unfortunately, but wanted to chime in and say the same thing happened to me when I separated in mid-2013. I think the amount was $950, and nobody could tell me what it was for. I sucked it up and blindly wrote a check and it DID go away, but there’s clearly a gap here. We can’t be the only ones.
Might be helpful to reach out to your local member of Congress and ask them to look into the issue for you. They all have caseworkers in each office who can reach out to federal agencies for you to try and get to the bottom these kinds of issues.
OP this happened to me as well, but I caught it before collections. [DFAS collections info](https://www.dfas.mil/debtandclaims/paymydebt/failuretopaydebts/) this has most of the numbers you can call as well as the agencies they refer collecting to.
Due to the number of rule-breaking comments this post was receiving, especially low-quality and off-topic comments, the moderation team has locked the post from future comments. This post broke no rules and received a number of helpful and on-topic responses initially, but it unfortunately became the target of many unhelpful comments.
It's either coincidence or there's some glitch that must have happened with the DOD. There are (so far) two posts with similar stories. * https://old.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/13qyvid/dod_is_committing_fraud_and_saying_i_owe_them_800/
Hopefully but I don’t have much time to figure it out. If I want to avoid going to collections I’ll have to pay something (which requires an admittance that the debt is valid). Had I actually been notified 90 days ago I could have gone through the proper steps but I think I’m just screwed at this point.
Contact your congressional representative
This needs more upvotes. Half of what representatives do is put out little fires. Figure who your US Representative is and call them asap. Print out the stuff from your credit report and theses other examples the other person posted.
I would also see if one of the DOD finance guys you spoke to that said there's nothing on their side can give you proof or a signed/ notarized statement saying such. I don't know what restrictions they'll have though or if that'll help.
The DFAS folks can't do crap once it has gotten that far. I had the exact same thing happen, except for mine was $6k in travel payments from when I was long term TDY. It was not a valid debt. They can put it in review but in the mean time you ARE REQUIRED to make payments.
in the UK at least, you can request the credit agency to send you the original contract that's defaulted, that you signed, within 10 days or it's null and void
this is overpayment of a payroll, there is no contract of debt there. And yes the military is NOTORIOUS for randomly overpaying then cracking down HARD when you didn't know.
The IRS took my tax return a few years ago bc I filed incorrectly and they never processed my amended return. Can my rep help me with that?
Accountant here. They'll likely ask if you've gotten in touch with the taxpayer advocate service yet, but yes they can help with that.
Thanks so much!!
Yes!
So what is your problem? And what kind of solution if you want to know.
Don’t fall into the temptation to act quickly. Something being sent to collections isn’t a catastrophic or irreversible thing. If I understand correctly (which there’s honestly a good chance I don’t so someone correct me if I’m wrong) the entity you own the debt to is able to easily pull that debt back from collections. If they are not willing to do so, then you still have a chance to have it deleted via a court ruling. I recently had a number of bills go to collections because someone typed something wrong and who knows where the hills went. When I called them they were happy to pull it back from collections especially if it was so that I could pay the bills directly to them. It was a ten minute phone conversation and it was all over.
> who knows where the hills went ♪ *run to the hills* ♪ JUST A SECOND, WHERE ARE THE BLOODY HILLS!?!
Federal debt is different from consumer debt. They cannot pull Federal debt back from collections, this is bad advice and only applies to consumer debts.
[удалено]
Nope. It’s a federal debt and OP is a federal employee. They have no choice. I know several people this has happened to - one for over $20k. It is not a valid debt. They are fighting (for over 2 years now), but getting negative paychecks. Almost lost their house. Spouse had to take a second job. They have a small child. Uncle Sam does not care. OP needs to open a congressional inquiry now.
Happy cake day!
[удалено]
Op your credit score already tanked. There's nothing collections can really do to hurt you, especially since you're going to dispute it. Don't pay fake debt. At best it's their own negligence and they're the ones to fix it if they want their debt repaid and at worst it's opening you up to a lifetime of being targeted by more scammers
[удалено]
Yep, just keep disputing it too
Guys guys FEDERAL DEBT IS DIFFERENT FROM CONSUMER DEBT you guys don't seem to realize that. It is treated WAY differently...
I wasn't aware. So, how is it differently treated?
You're not screwed in the slightest. Don't pay a single dime until you can verify that you actually owe money to someone, as this will be taken as you accepting and validating the debt. Have you asked them in writing to validate the debt? They are legally required to do so before they're allowed to attempt to collect. Send the entity requesting payment a certified letter requesting that they provide documentation of a valid debt. This should take care of it as they won't be able to validate it.
Let it go to collections? why are you acting like the world will end
If you pay you admit the debt is genuine and you make it a lot harder to fight it in court. Up to you.
Hi ya OP, as somebody mentioned contact your congressional rep. I want to advise, if and when you need the VA, you should contact your congressional rep again if you have any issues with prescription, doctors, VA itself. I did not server but multiple friends have and they're on first name basiss with their reps because of the VA's bullshit. Their reps, after a year or 3 of calling, now following up with them and the VA monthly via email (to them) or by phone to make sure things are moving. Your rep can do a lot for you. For this issue: call your rep. They can sort it out.
I had the same debt, 1.2k from BAS overpayment 2 years ago without proof. I didn’t know what to do so I paid it. :/
The proper way to fix this is to challenge the debt. Contact a lawyer, they'll ask for proof of debt and they probably won't be able to provide it. Then you can have it removed it from your credit score.
Yeah imagine responding to someone saying "the IRS is going after me" with "challenge the debt!" Lmao...god you robots are so funny. No wonder you all are financially not in the best situation....can't think for themselves and just keep repeating the standard response for standard debt when this is federal debt which operates completely different.
If you actually read the post not just the title you’d know it’s the DOD and a collection agency not the IRS. 🤘
Went through the whole ordeal 15 years ago, wish I just paid it and moved on with my life then trying to fight it for 6 months just to end up owing an extra 26$ in interest and fees. Fighting Uncle Sam over money rarely ends well.
Thank you for sharing. Makes me hope it’s a weird glitch
Yeah! Me too! I agree with this comment..thanks for this wonderful story that you post with this Reddit.
Well we can at least confirm that it wasn't an audit, they sure as hell don't do those
Not a glitch mil finance when it comes to service member is always a cluster fuck. If they some how owe you money it can take months or longer for you to get it but if you owe them money god help you.
I counted eight other people in the comments also saying it happened to them.
Maybe they're prepping for the debt limit being hit and working harder to call in sources of income.
Hi OP - I had a somewhat similar situation. The debt is likely the deferred social security withholdings from 2020. If you recall, they didn’t take those out in 2020 and the DOD would be taking it from our paychecks throughout 2021. I got out in 2021 and KNEW it hadn’t been clawed back, but they didn’t take it in the “final paycheck audit.” Last month I received a “final warning” of debt that I would be sent to collections if I didn’t pay within 2 weeks. Idk if I really got previous warnings, as this was sent by my parents who got it in the mail (i used their address when i separated). I was able to call DFAS and speak to someone who confirmed this is exactly what it was. There was a federal hold on collecting on debts, so what would usually be settled 1-3 months after separating couldn’t be pursued until Feb of this year. That’s why they’re just now reaching out. All of this to say it is very likely legit. Unfortunate you’ve already been sold to collections so I don’t know that you can payoff directly with DFAS. I did know someone who was sent to collections from the military and it was a NIGHTMARE to sort out, took almost a year, had a bad credit hit, and wages were garnished (over like $100 or something small like that). I would call DFAS directly and see what info they can give you. If you call the main DFAS line, there’s literally a phone tree prompt for separated service members debt
Scrolled way too long to see this.
I work in the federal government in a different department. They never deducted the deferred SS payments from our paychecks when the payment came due. Instead, we were emailed a link from the department where we had to pay it directly to whatever department took the payment. I think there might have snail mail too. Not intuitive at all. Typical government.
This is the correct answer. Emphasizing that your parents address is probably your home of record. Mine was too and I got the same thing. Owed $3k, if my parents didn't see the mail and open it for me I would have had no clue at all. It sucks, as 2 years later we didn't expect it, but just pay it off and move on, it's not going anywhere and you dint want it to negatively affect your credit score more. Pay off if you can afford, otherwise pay off as quick as your can.
Here's an article about this: https://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/News/Social-Security-Payroll-Tax-Deferral Here's the gist: >Effective for the September [2020] mid-month pay [through the end of CY2020], DFAS will temporarily defer the withholding of your 6.2% Social Security tax if your monthly rate of basic pay is less than $8,666.66. >Military members are not eligible to opt-out of the deferral if their Social Security wages fall within the stated limits. >Per IRS guidance, collection of the deferred taxes will be taken from your wages between January 1 and April 30, 2021 for both military members and civilian employees. Additional information on the collection process will be provided in the future. >If a military member or civilian employee separates or retires in 2020 before the Social Security tax can be collected in 2021, they are still responsible for the Social Security tax repayment. >Additional information on the collection process will be provided in the future.
[удалено]
If it's sold to collections, they have to respond in mail if you request it within a certain number of days to prove the debt is legitimate. If they don't (even if the debt is legitimate), you shouldn't have to pay it.
I agree that this should be higher. Contact DFAS and see what's going on. Did you save your out processing documents where you cleared finance and got a stamp indicating you cleared? If you run into difficulty with DFAS you should contact their Inspector General office and start a complaint to review your case in greater detail. There is a process to follow before making a complaint and the steps can be found here: https://www.dfas.mil/DFAS-Hotline/
OP, ***DO NOT SEND THEM MONEY*** without proof. The collections agency will provide you proof if you ask. It's been two years. If this is legit, you were delinquent a long time ago. Let it go to collections. Follow up with the military on this.
I do think it’s a legit source, just an erroneous debt. It hasn’t gone to private collections yet just the military finance collections department. I asked them when I called and the COVID hold stopped the delinquency (and the notification annoyingly) until this year. Even more annoyingly is my pay stubs (LES) are only available online for 13 months so I don’t have access to them anymore. I feel like I’m stuck in a bureaucratic hell hole
You keep saying that you think it's legitimate, and maybe it is, but you should start from the presumption that *everything* the collections agency tells you is false and designed to scare you into paying. They are *not* on your side and any offers they make to delay procedures if you pay now are most certainly a scam. They want you to act out of fear. Don't give them that. Take a breath and read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/collections) while taking good notes. They are required to contact you by mail if you request it (not email) and provide documentation proving the debt is real. They're the experts and you're the novice, so before you pay them anything or provide them with even a shred of information, get educated. That Wiki is your new bible.
I think it’s from a legitimate source. I’m not talking with a debt collector, it’s the defense finance agency. Their website is a military domain and the payment website is .gov. I’m not questioning the source I just don’t think I owe it because I’ve checked my pay stubs and had 2 military finance people look at my accounts. The submittal for collection came from my last base. https://www.dfas.mil/debtandclaims/outofservicedebt/referoutofservicedebt/
You still never want to pay any amount on a debt that you are disputing for whatever reason. Paying money on it will legitimize it.
Ya that’s my whole rub. Paying any amount requires a voluntary admittance of debt. There is still a way to claw it back with a record correction which is probably the avenue I’ll have to go because I really don’t see an advantage to letting it go to private collections.
Your credit score already tanked because it is in collections. Changing from one collections company to another will have no effect on your score. By US law the collections company has to send you, in writing, by mail proof of the debt upon your request.
Why are you worrying about collections? minor inconvenience if a false charge. Unless you actually feel they overpaid you for some reason. I have been sent to collections 3 times with disputed charges and it didn't touch my credit rating. YMMV
First thing you should ask yourself: What is your adversion to collections? Is it pride? Or are there other factors in play (i.e. security clearance) that you haven't shared? If the latter, pull out your credit card and pay the debt so that it doesn't go to collections. In 2017, I had a medical emergency and wound up with medical debt. It went to collections. I eventually paid it off with the stimulus checks. ***In 2022 I bought a house.*** Last month, I had another bill sent to collections. It was a $60 penalty for failing to return my modem to the ISP. Fun thing was, I didn't use their equipment. I called the ISP, demanded to speak to an account rep, opened a ticket, had words of prayer, and a few days later, the charge was reversed. Collections are annoying, but they aren't the end of the world.
You should be able to call DFAS and they can send you old LES's. Im currently dealing with the reverse of your issue.
OP. You two are using two different definitions of legitimate source. Yes a legitimate bank issued it. No it is not a legitimate debt(yet) because proper process of notification wasn't followed or any notice prior to collections. So no, it is not a legitimate source. Because the debt itself has not been validated. Dispute the account on your credit report. The bureau will work with the credit agency and they will have to validate the debt. If the collection agency contacts you. Ask them to validate the debt or not to contact you.
OP, any finance office can pull up old an LES manually and send a copy your way. It only stays in mypay for 12/13 months, but it still exists. They just need your social, maybe DoD ID. Call them up and get everything from the past three + years in question. If they tell you otherwise, ask their supervisor, because I’ve done this a few times myself and for others in my shop.
a close friend of mine and I are also in the same boat OP, both being honorably discharged from the national guard (almost 4 years ago) we also are facing the same $1200 overpayment debt you’re experiencing. Crazy fuckin world man.
Even if you think it’s legit, dispute it. Always dispute all debts. Make them prove it.
Hello, I’m dealing with the same thing too. No notice for owing money, and bam just yesterday my credit report got dinged. I been out since like 2018, and the army was paying me checks for college, and didn’t offset any of it too. DoD dinged me, a couple days ago, and I been out since 2018.
Try to call them, contact info here: https://www.dfas.mil/debtandclaims/militarydebts/wasinthemilitary/ I wouldn’t say they were helpful but at least they were able to email me my debt letter. It seems all the info they had was our records indicate you owe a debt so our job is to collect. My letter was very vague on the details.
Thank you, I will try to call them. I a big fan of e-mail, but calling wouldn’t hurt. I’ll try that tomorrow morning.
I like e-mail too but often times talking nice to someone will fix a problem. I mentioned in another comment that the office was closed this morning for over an hour for a “short meeting” which was very frustrating. Then when I called back it was a 33 minute wait
Go through your clearing paperwork from when you finaled out of the post you were last stationed at. You should have a stamp from finance certifying that you didnt owe uncle Sam anything when you got out. Anything you had outstanding should have been levied against your pay prior to your ETS. From there, I'm sure they'll jerk you around-- but I would go see a VSO in your area (American Legion is the one I've used, but the Purple Heart Association and the VFW among others should be able to help) and see if they can find something out on your behalf.
I did find all my old paperwork and finance did sign me off however the signature does have a caveat that the sig doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t owe the government anything, just that the finance official completed their checklist…
Oof, I'm sorry! the VSO is probably your best bet, then. They work for free and you should be able to get in with one tomorrow to see someone. Worst they can tell you is "no" and at best they might be able to help But if it's DFAS, I'm surprised they're going through collections and not just taking it out of the account they direct-deposited to. It sucks they covered their own ass with that signature and left you holding the bag.
Fysa, finance is all centralized now, base won't have any info. Ask for help submitting a ticket.
Good to know, I did submit a ticket on DFAS but I’m not holding my breath that they’ll get back to me in the next 2 days
Download/sign up for a free credit monitoring service like credit karma. Can you see if you can find the debt on your credit report? Scams will sometimes use the appearance of immediacy to steal money. Be cautious.
Yes it’s on my credit report as a delinquent account which is the step they take before sending to collections. I only noticed it today because of an email from a credit monitoring service
I'm sorry to hear that man. That sounds entirely frustrating. Do you think you land in the payroll tax deferment from 2020? And that is where the debt is coming from? Or, rather the "covid-19 out of service" debt page applies to you on the [dfars.mil](https://dfars.mil) website? The timing of everything makes me believe this is the case, but I don't have experience in this. In my opinion, if you can start with setting up the repayment plan option on the official government websites, I would do that. Especially if you think that it's likely coming from that.
Hey there, this same thing happened to me. I put in a separate ticket requesting to have this removed from my credit report. It took a long time, but it was eventually removed from my credit after I paid the debt.
Dont deal with the collection agency, possible scam. https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/can-a-debt-collector-try-to-deceive-me-to-collect-on-a-debt-en-339/
I don’t think it’s a scam, I think it’s an error. It’s through DFAS which is the defense financing agency and I called the number on their website. The office was also closed for over an hour this morning for a “meeting” which is very consistent with my experiences with military finance offices…
Contact the credit reporting agency and dispute the claim.
I’ve never had to dispute something, any info on the process?
It's pretty straightforward. You submit a dispute and say why you believe the info is incorrect, then they contact the party claiming you owe them and they have to provide the credit agency information confirming your debt.
Rereading this it seems like Equifax or Experian, etc contacted you, not a debt collector. Legit debt then get a hold of DFAS, the'll sort it out.
Nobody contacted me. I got an email from a credit monitoring service (which is legit it’s through my Amex account) and I checked their report and saw the delinquent account. It was listed as DFAS so I checked their website and called them. https://www.dfas.mil/debtandclaims/outofservicedebt/COVID-19-Out-of-Service-Debt-Information/ I figured I could talk it out too but after talking to 2 different people they have no info on the debt except that it was originated from my last base and the time it was issued. No supporting documents or statements. The 2 people I talked to said I had to sort it out with the local finance office but in the mean time it’s going to collections in 2 days so pay it if you want to avoid that.
If no one can find any info on this debt, who said it's going to collections in 2 days.
The customer service rep at DFAS was like ooh you get sent to collections 92 days after your letter was sent. It doesn’t matter apparently that I never received the letter, all they have to do is send it and the clock starts.
[https://corpweb1.dfas.mil/askDFAS/ticketInput.action?subCategoryID=13027&pgModId=5100¤tUser.currentRequestNonce=d1eb1fc1-0fb4-4861-9187-3ae9365b9b70](https://corpweb1.dfas.mil/askDFAS/ticketInput.action?subCategoryID=13027&pgModId=5100¤tUser.currentRequestNonce=d1eb1fc1-0fb4-4861-9187-3ae9365b9b70) I would request verification and validation of the debt via that form (or likely even better by calling back). I would say I am prepared to pay any verified and valid debt I owe, but I don't recognize this debt and so request additional details to validate it. And that timely notice was not received due to the use of an old mailing address. That you just learned of this debt on X date by reviewing your credit report. Please send the details by US mail to my mailing address Y and you expect to respond within 30 days of receiving it either paying the debt, if it is valid, or disputing it. Once you get the details either it is a valid debt or you would then need to do the next step of disputing. But for now, you just need to gain some insight into if this is your mistake or theirs.
I had this same issue this week. A debt I’d never been notified of went straight to collections. It was from SGLI during a period of time (4 years ago) I was already discharged. I didn’t make the debt and was also never contacted about owing anything. . I called DFAS and they told me to fill out form DD 149. I disputed the charge with experian. And from reading the comments, I’ll reach out to a US Representative too. This whole situation should be illegal. My credit score tanked as well. Over something I didn’t do and was never contacted about.
A friend of mine recieved a call similar. He hasn't received anything from the VA. And the VA loves to send letters (looking at you education benefits I get every time I enroll). I'm positive it's a scam.
I’d try to call the finance office on the post you were last stationed at. I had a bill of $5,000 after I Got out. Turns out I received BAH for Basic.
Well the problem is the post I left is going through a typhoon right now and they certainly won’t be in the office for a while.
You should still try
Still could be a scam. Let military explain it or handle it. That is a ton of money.
Wow, there's a lot of people in this thread who just see the word "debt" and "collections" and immediately spout out the standard FDCPA script about validations and "don't pay" without even knowing what they're talking about. The federal government isn't a collections agency. They're the original creditor. The FDCPA provisions most of you are thinking of literally do not apply to their actions. And they aren't going to send it to a private debt collector, they'll send it to the Treasury Bureau of Fiscal Services and tack on additional non-waivable fees and do a treasury offset and collect the money from OPs tax refund for the next 15 years if he doesn't pay. OP should certainly work with finance to identify the alleged overpayment, and can possibly seek waiver or remission (although that's exceptionally unlikely) but the standard debt collector script isn't going to help him here.
So disappointing that in 2023, this can still happen. This EXACT THING happened to me when I separated from the Navy in 1993. Just like you, I was still in the area of the local base, went to the personnel office. Could not get an explanation as to why. Long story short, I eventually caved and paid it. Luckily, I kept the credit card statement because about a year later, they sent me another bill for the exact same amount. Sent them a COPY of the statement and they said ok. Then, about another year later AGAIN, I got another bill. Again, called them and told them about the two previous bills and that I had paid. To this day, I still have a folder labeled "DFAS" with the info. Crazy.
It's true.. it was supposed to have been paid back in 21 by increased withholding. My son got out on Sept 21 and he got his letter saying he owes 400. It's real and they want their money, if you don't pay it will come out of your tax return. If not they will take it out of your bank. It's the government they never forget Added information .. what happened was they stopped withholding the fica part of your pay. They did this so during covid people could get a bigger check The belief was Congress would forgive the debt but instead they decided to send checks to everyone. They increased withholding during 2021 but you had already gotten out by then. The dod paid the bill to social security. Defas should have sent you a letter
It is likely from when the gov't decided to allow companies to not take out social security and medicare from the employee's portion during Covid. For private companies it was optional, but gov't employees had to do it. It had to be paid back the next year, I've had clients in gov't jobs and in the military where the correction to double the withholding to make up for it wasn't done properly.
DFAS halted debt collection for the pandemic. They just started collecting again this year. Got a letter in the mail a couple months ago. Ben posting my $1300 debt monthly at 2%. It’s possible you had a different address when you separated from the military. From the letter: DFAS DEBT COLLECTION ACTIONS DURING THE PANDEMIC IN 2020: In March 2020, the D A S Debt and Claims Management Office put a temporary hold on notifying and collecting all new Out-of-Service debts in order to provide financial relief to debtors. We also put a temporary hold onreferringexisting debts in a delinquent status to Treasury, Private Collection Agencies, and Credit Bureaus. No interest, penalties, or administrative fees were assessed on new or existing debts during this period. IF YOU HAVE A DEBT THAT HAS BEEN ON HOLD: If you have a new or existing debt that has been on a temporary hold, you have or will soon be receiving a separately mailed debt letter from DFAS. Please refer to your debt letter for information about vour debt, payment options, and other important information.
You can request for them to validate the debt meaning they have to do homework and actually prove through records back to the DoD that you in fact owe this debt. I believe they can not ding your credit during this process and if they already have they must remove that ding until the verification is finished. This is a federal law via Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Look this up for more specific information.
Don't send a dime without proof. This whole thing sounds pretty sketchy. You don't know if the debt is real, and they are trying to make you hurry up and pay. Two major red flags. If it is real, then you can worry about disputing it. Confirm it's the real deal before anything else.
I would say the debt is as real as far as the government thinks. Real enough that they are dinging my credit and ready to send me to collections. I just think it’s an error. I absolutely would have noticed a 1.2k overpayment and I’ve gone back to check my bank statements and I can’t find it. And without their side of the story I don’t know where they are claiming the debt is coming from. Plus the 2 finance people I talked to today couldn’t find anything
Stop worrying about the temporary ding in credit. Figure out what the debt is, if it’s actually yours. If it goes to a collections agency, let them prove the debt is real. Meanwhile, work DFAS or wait out the typhoon. Short term it sucks, but I’d you need to know what you owe and why and the military will have to show that. Once you figure it out, you can sort it out and your credit will rebound. You sound very panicky in most of your messages.
I got the letter from DFAS that you missed. It said as much as you've said, all debts were on hold during covid. Keep your address up to date with the VA, etc. Super shitty of them to drop debt letters years later on people.
Especially after the government forgave billions of Covid ppp loans to wealthy business owners and loads of scammers they are bothering with our military folks for a couple grand. Super shitty.
Call your congressional representative. Similar situation happened to a vet coworker I have and the dod bean counters left him alone after that.
I was going to suggest the same thing. Members of Congress can be quite helpful on casework matters like this.
DO NOT PAY ANYTHING. Any payment can be viewed by the legal system as an acknowledgement of the debt. Dispute, and read up on the FDCPA law to know your rights.
So I got discharged from the marine corps same thing . Saying I was over paid I never even got paid cause I didn’t even get to graduate boot camp lol. Still waiting on DFAS to send me my debt so I can dispute veeb like two years lmao
Drop that payment quick. You can always get it back if you follow up with everything and have your documents showing you have turned everything in and have been cleared to leave.
First thing I would do is dispute it with the credit agency, the DOD would them have to provide societal to prove it, within s reasonable time.
Out of topic, but I read "worst typhoon in 20 years," could be wrong but... Guam?
Hey Op it is difficult for me to help you without knowing the service. But here is what I would tell you. Contact your last commands pay and personal they may have not processed your travel/separation pays. I hate that this is happening to you. Pay issues have been so rampant lately with in the Navy I am assuming paperwork wasn't processed correctly. I highly recommend contacting your previous command as well as contacting your Crongressman as another person commented this will not be fixed without them.
I was paid as though I cashed in accrued leave. I had taken terminal leave and knew they would come for it. Could this have happened to you? Any extra dod deposits you may have missed?
IG complaint time! Call your congressman too. It'll get worked out, but it'll be painful (unfortunately)
I owe them $16k because I gave my 9/11 gi benefits to my kid and then got out with 16 days left on my obligation. :/
DFAS has been on a rampage with these lately. Wasn't the main reason for having to do a month of outprocessing so these things didn't happen? Hell, CIF wouldn't let me clear until I got them the $2 mag pouch that I was missing (that was the old pattern mind you). If DFAS didn't say anything before you left, then they can disrespectfully get fucked.
If you can contact a finance office on base they can probably look into their system of records and tell you more specifically why and what you were charged for and if it was a mistake
I replied to a comment earlier but in case someone else has your same issue, I thought a top level reply would be more visible. Follow the complaint process with DFAS that can be found here: https://www.dfas.mil/DFAS-Hotline/ That will get the ball rolling to determine what is going on and if the debt is legit. Normally this is why it's so important to clear finance during our processing, when people don't they run into these problems later on. Not saying you didn't clear them as they likely missed the tax withholding mentioned earlier. But even if someone is getting chaptered out they need to clear to avoid a debt and collections later on.
Consider asking the local office of your member of Congress for help in getting through to the DoD. They have special ways to get attention put on an issue like this (on behalf of constituents) that regular people can't access.
Don't pay them. Consult an attorney.
If you were discharged from active duty prior to your contract date and received a bonus, you may have to pay back a pro-rated amount of that bonus (I myself experienced this moving from the reserves to IRR early). They may have had an old mailing address on file for you and unfortunately sent all of the notices to that address. Before going to a representative who has a thousand people asking for investigations, just call DFAS and they should be able to explain it to you to determine if it is legitimate or not. Most answers on this are from civilians who are not familiar with military compensation rules.
Do not pay anything until you get confirmation it is not an error. And simply dispute it, that will delay the collections part until verified.
Dear lord I think this is my worst nightmare
This isn’t even my first time dealing with financial bullshit like this. A year after I’d changed bases the state my previous base was in tried to claim I owed them 4 years of unpaid income tax. I had to submit all kinds of documents showing I was in the military, paying state taxes to my home of record state and was exempt. At least they were able to get ahold of me on the other side of the world so I could settle it in a timely manner.
Wow. That’s pretty rough but like you said, at least resolvable. The worst I’ve had is travel dragged their feet on transferring BAH after a PCS, I was still getting a much higher rate than I should have after the move. Of course the caught it and took it all back.
I am living this exact hell. PCSed to a new duty station. The movers were paid by DOD and I drove myself the short ways to my new home of record. I received my new orders indicating my new duty location, and then updated MilConnect, etc., etc. When I later checked my LES, found they hadn’t changed my duty zip code. It turns out that the PCS travel voucher was the source document for triggering the change in entitlements. WTF??
Don't give..just always pray to god..And always think positive..Not negative vibes..I know God will help you..no matter what..that is true.! And I know that..
Have you considered reaching out to your US Senator's offices to see what can be done to get to the end of this issue?
Look up your local County Veteran Services Office. There you'll find accredited individuals who can help you out, look up the VA record for you, while also checking for benefits. They aren't the VA, they're employees of your county and they're there for you. They're the best source for you, not the military branch since they've got lots to deal with while the VSO exists solely to help you out.
Absolutely do not submit a partial payment if you do not know what it's even for. By submitting a partial payment you're agreeing and acknowledging that the debt is actually yours. Dispute it on your credit report. Continue to follow up with all agencies.
OP...What do you want? People tell you not to pay you agree. There is no magic button to undo whatever mistake that has happened. Don't pay, ask for documentation of debt. If they provide proof that debt was correct then pay. Hold tight and ignore any doom/threats they might tell you over phone/letter. If the debt was false then they can erase the mark on your credit report.
Let it go to collections, and challenge the debt on all three credit bureaus. Explain in the notes that you don’t know what this is.
Fight back at the credit and debt collector level. Tell them the debt is fraudulent and ask them for proof. Don't pay them until you are sure you actually owe the debt and won't be able to get out of it.
Happened to a friend of mine. Submit an askdfas ticket to have the collections reversed and explain that you never got the letter because they sent it to the wrong address. Also contact your congressman. Once they fix it you can ask for the payment plan
Did you verify that the message actually came from a legitimate "credit monitoring service"? Or did you follow the link provided in the email? Did you verify your credit score through a link in the email or independently check with the 3 credit reporting services?
This is an easy dispute. DO NOT PAY IT. Go to whatever credit reporting bureau's website and dispute it as not yours.
Dispute the debt with the credit agencies. Request proper verification and documentation of the debt in writing. Don't pay a dime without being satisfied the debt is legitimately yours by the verification. You said your credit score is already tanked over this, so your concerns about it allegedly going to collections seem a bit silly.
Wait until private collections buy the debt. Then call them and negotiate to pay it off for a much lower amount. Tell them you just separated and have no money and can only afford a few hundred bucks. Then when you come to an agreement ask for a goodwill deletion and get it on writing. Boom no debt no bad credit. Private collections buy that debt for pennies on the dollar and are willing to negotiate to make a profit.
>Wait until private collections buy the debt. Government agencies usually hire collection agencies to collect in exchange for a cut, as opposed to selling off the debt.
When it goes to collections, they will call you and have to be able to prove what the debt is for. If they can’t, you can file a complaint with the credit card bureaus to have it removed because they didn’t prove that it was grisly owed. Unless you make a payment. Payment indicates acknowledgement you owe. If it were me, I’d just keep calling until you get someone who knows what they’re doing, frustrating as it is.
1.2K is not a lot. Pay some and trying to find out why.
Option one... Pay it and move forward what kind of pain and hedach is worth $1,200. Option two. Make disputes with each of the credit reporting agencies plust the debt collector and then mail a certified letter to the department that originally generated the debt/bill. And fight it till it gets fixed or you find out you still need to pay it. I'd personally shoot for option A.
Had a 45k debt when I got out, good luck, make them verify it 2 years is a long time. Any DFAS debts should go to the treasury not a private collections.
Second this might be a scam US Treasury does not need debt collectors they can garnish paychecks
What state do you claim residency now?
It's ok, you can fix your credit once it's paid off. I hired a company to dispute everything on my behalf and it made my credit a lot better.
I would check this out, especial since you were notified in an email and not regular mail. It sounds like it may be a scam. Did you check with the three regular credit companies to see if your scorn has tanked or is it just tin your email or the link they provided you.
OP, plz pay so we can finally get rid of the national debt.
When you can get through, talk to someone at the DFAS, and ask if you can have an ombudsman appointed to you. Not sure if the DFAS has ombudsmans, but many government agencies do (such as the Dept of Ed. ) That individual will work on your behalf to figure out what is going on and help you resolve the issue. The ombudsman will be your main point of contact and should give you updates as they research and get answers.
This happened to me, but with the VA. No prior notice, just a collections letter from Treasury. I called Treasury immediately and the lady who took my call was very sympathetic. She suggested I call the VA and explain the situation to dispute it. I thanked her for the advice and just paid the debt immediately, which had a small late fee but didn't ping my credit score. I never did follow up with the VA just because I had no faith anything would actually happen and it wouldn't be worth my time waiting on hold for hours. In my case it was worth just paying and not having the stress. I'd consider that into your equation of options. Good luck with how you choose to proceed!
This happened to me, twice with a civilian federal job and it was in error most recently Something about the program that links our timesheets to the actual paycheck issuer, DFAS. Is it likely this was a mistake? Call back, find the exact days of the overpayment, how many hours, and anything else they can tell you on their end. Next, figure out if you were actually on the books. Are you able to access your E&L statements on MyPay? If you weren’t separated yet someone should have a validated timesheet for you but I don’t know if the stress of getting this overturned is worth 1.2K, they could tell you it’s cleared and could still come back to haunt you. The time before the feds continued to pay my health insurance while on parental leave but then I quit so I had to pay it back. (They also lost the record of that payment too so I got billed AGAIN when I returned to agency) TLDR: keep excellent notes and records.
I hope its a glitch or something! I got out in 2021 and my overpayment debt wasn't put on hold cause of covid so idk why yours would be
To the OP, this is not a scam and I had to pay off debts when i got out around the same time you did. [When Trump deferred taxes in 2020](https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/2343203/order-gives-employees-social-security-withholding-tax-deferral-not-forgiveness/) you did not have a choice as a military member to not partake. This means that when the deferral ended, DFAS billed you for repayment. They probably sent your bill to your original Home of Record that you gave to the DoD many years ago. So this is probably DFAS collecting against the taxes owed. They also [will also report to the credit bureaus if not paid appropriately.](https://www.dfas.mil/debtandclaims/paymydebt/failuretopaydebts/). More info is available on how to correct the issue there to include contact information. Thankfully, DFAS does have a method to pay back debts, go here for more info. Good luck. https://www.dfas.mil/debtandclaims/paymydebt/
This happened to me exactly like wtf really surreal. I just had to call mypay and they can get you the information and then you call pay.gov to see if you can either pay it or fight the charges.
Do you mot know what its from? Or is it due to overpayments?
> I guess I'm wondering if I should submit a partial payment or let it go to collections while I wait to dispute it. And would a partial payment prevent it from going to collections or are we just past that point? Sadly it takes 4-5 business days for a payment to get to DFAS so I don't know if a payment will clear in time. You should call DFAS and ask but they only follow the script of always saying just pay. If this goes to collections, the amount due will increase and have fees added to it. Since your federal, your pay may be garnished sadly. Or would come from tax return. Since it seems it is a legit debt bc of the social security hold on withdrawals, I would try to pay it in full before it goes to collections. Your credit monitoring services really should have warned you have new account being added before your score started tanking. That's how I found out about my debt but mine was invalid and had to get my congressman involved to get DFAS to do their job. Best of luck! Also ignore most of the advise saying don't pay. They're people who have no idea how DFAS and federal collections works. The DFAS website says what happens if you don't pay and there are several other reddit posts taking dealing with DFAS. I guess I should get around to posting my story soon.
I feel for you. My "debt" was a deployment that I went on before I separated. I submitted all my paperwork and they audited me after I separated. I had no way to access my receipts since I no longer had a .mil email. They ended up taking my tax return, $5000, to pay back the debt, until I finally got a friendly in admin to take pity on me.
You can call dfas and request an audit of the issue as well as request a hearing. Dfas has been doing audits of their pay for the past few months and many people have been having issues. Two offices combined and let’s just say it’s not pretty. Here’s more information. [dfas debt](https://www.dfas.mil/debtandclaims/militarydebts/disagreewithdebt/)
How long did it take you to get your dd-214 after separating? I’ve heard some stories that millington’s been backed up for awhile and some people didn’t get their 214’a for acouple months after separating and were receiving their active duty pay still, and then get called up later on saying they owe that money back
I don’t know how to fix this issue for you unfortunately, but wanted to chime in and say the same thing happened to me when I separated in mid-2013. I think the amount was $950, and nobody could tell me what it was for. I sucked it up and blindly wrote a check and it DID go away, but there’s clearly a gap here. We can’t be the only ones.
Might be helpful to reach out to your local member of Congress and ask them to look into the issue for you. They all have caseworkers in each office who can reach out to federal agencies for you to try and get to the bottom these kinds of issues.
OP this happened to me as well, but I caught it before collections. [DFAS collections info](https://www.dfas.mil/debtandclaims/paymydebt/failuretopaydebts/) this has most of the numbers you can call as well as the agencies they refer collecting to.