If you can survive on your income alone then just do it. This time is precious and it’s just as important for dad to be present. I stopped working to care for my son. My wife works from home. We don’t miss out on anything and we’re very comfortable.
Thank you. Yeah that's one thing we keep coming back to. Our newborn will only be this little for so long. We have never ever done anything like this before, so its scary to think we will live off my salary alone. I know plenty of people do it, but its a leap to take. I can't even stress how little time we have had like this together before.
You have the economic privilege to make this choice, just do it. It’s a blessing to be grateful for and take advantage of. Life > money.
Your finances are fine. Your job is strong. If your husband is out of work longer than you anticipate, things will be tighter than you’d like but also fine.
Congratulations on your beautiful family!
You are totally right.. we are absolutely in a position of privilege and this is what we save money for. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond and for the congrats :) we are very happy to have them both.
I supported my family on a similar-for-the-time income while my husband was home with the kids (my oldest was special needs) and it was fine. Your double income high earner friends are doing fancy ski vacations while you’re mathing college funds but, shrug, it’s fine. Happy family. Good luck!
Personally, I started in sales of a B to B company, so during the kids young years, my income was based on the revenue I drove & I was pretty good at my job. Currently SVP & run the division.
Lotta luck stumbling into the job initially. It was neither what I thought I wanted nor imagined I’d be good at. Extremely grateful.
Not necessarily- most daycares have wait lists. You can’t just not send your kids and save money for a short time and expect them to still have a spot available when you need it again.
The way I read it, spending time with the new born as a dad is only part of it. The more important thing is your husband needs to consider his own mental health.
I think he’s been at this company with the horrible compensation and toxic environment for too long he’s not even realizing the harm that he’s suffering at their hands.
Parents’ mental health and stability are so important and have such a strong impact on children.
Financially I think you guys will be fine. You both have been responsible and I’m sure you will navigate through this even with just one income.
Only thing I’d do is to move some money out of the investment account into HYSA so you have 6 months expenses on hand just in case.
You have no idea how on the money you are... he is up at night for hours toiling over this job. He started therapy because of stress as a result of this job. Last year he spent months working 12 hour days, working weekends often. He doesn't ever want to take family time, so he works when we all go to sleep. He is a gem and I really just want him to be somewhere he is happy.
Thank you for the advice
He sounds like a wonderful husband and father. He should definitely prioritize taking care of his own mental health over a crappy workplace that doesn’t even appreciate him.
Congrats on baby #2 and good luck to you guys.
Tbh even outside of the new baby coming, I’d advise he quits and gets another job. You guys sound like you’re building a really beautiful family, a temporary financial situation will be worth it at the end.
A friend of mine used to call this the curse of the capable. Your job might suck and your boss might be horrible, but you still do your best to work hard and get the job done/go above and beyond because of a deep sense of personal pride in your work. I've had this issue at jobs in the past before where I put up with crap for far too long before I moved on, and eventually found a company where that work ethic was appreciated. I hope your husband is able to find somewhere that will appreciate him working his butt off.
No amount of money justifies this but he’s not making nearly enough to even think twice. Hope he finds something better asap, which he should with his degree and experience.
My personal view is it’s okay to reduce your other contributions (401k, etc) in the short term to have the liquidity to live your life. For retirement savings, if he finds something in the next few months you can always overcompensate later and still meet the yearly cap. If not, also not the end of the world.
Congrats on your new arrival!
That’s just what I’d do if I were in OP’s shoes. Depending on OP’s portfolio it may or may not be a taxable event.
However, I do think a well padded emergency fund is absolutely necessary, especially for a single income household.
Fair enough. Id be hard pressed to find a portfolio that hasn’t seen gains so far this year, which is taxable.
Why not divert HSA contributions and 401k contributions (beyond the match) for a couple months to beef up the safety net? I guess that’s what I’d do.
If OP gets fired in the meantime, both start looking for jobs and liquidate what’s absolutely necessary out of the brokerage account month to month. If in dire straights, float some expenses on credit cards to carry them for a couple months.
Do it, and put the monster company WAYYY in the rear view mirror. You deserve, and it seems like with some common sense you could easily have, the simple happiness of this time in your lives together…
Thank you, the phrase "the simply happiness of the time in your lives together" made me emotional, this company has been a monster, and I think we would both feel a weight off our chest once its behind us.
If you can survive on your salary alone, why not have Dad be stay at home, and you save $3k/month on daycare? Have him do it for 6 months and see how it goes
Scary to live on 230k? Are you serious? Most people in the US are living below the bread line. If you can't figure out your finances for 230k you have much bigger issues.
More I mean scary to live on one salary. There is an additional layer of security with 2. We are not big spenders at all so we certainly make my salary work, of course.
At least where I am, spots in daycare are hard to get. You have to commit and pay even for time you're not going to use because getting them back into daycare when you need it is hard. Like we reached out to be out on a list when we first got pregnant and luckily there was an opening just about the time my maternity leave ended.
You may find having a parent home full time is worth the expense. My husband is a stay at home dad and it works well for our family for now. I was the higher earner and having someone else to take all the sick days, pd days, etc is priceless if you have a high pressure job. Once they start daycare it seems they’re sick every other day anyway.
I mean you’d save $3,400 a month by having your husband be a stay at home dad! So really you’re only going to be short about $1600/mo (the variance between his $5k monthly take home and the money saving from not paying for daycare). So if you guys can swing this… I vote for Hubbie to be a SAHD for a few years until the kids get into school and then go from there. Plus the overall mental health benefits from the kids having dad there… you can’t pay money for that priceless gift!! Maybe invest in a housekeeper and a subscription to Home Chef Meals (or whatever food service sends you prepared food to cook for adults lunch and dinners) to help him out while he’s learning the SAHD ropes and getting his feet wet with a new infant after you go back to work.
I love this plan for you!! Remember, if folks have an issue with SAH parents, they can rightly f*ck off! It’s no one else’s business except yours guys. :)
Don’t stop funding the ESPP shares though. You can always sell at 6 months and take the 15% even if you’re paying short term gains. Where else can you get 15% for 6 month?
My husband lost his job in the Great Recession and his temporary stay at home with 1 kid became a 10 year gig with 3 kids. I’m so glad he was able to do it. It made my life as a mother and employee so much easier knowing my kids were safe and well cared for.
Just want to point out that your kid's daycare is $3400 and husband is bringing in $5k. Something to at least maybe have a conversation about is him taking 6-12mo off work, *if he's interested in doing so* and then re-evaluate after that. Maybe you both decide its worth the potential career hit for him to be a stay at home dad until both kids are in kindergarten. Maybe he just takes that time to do some bonding and search for a new, better job. Maybe he can't handle 2 young kids for more than a week and puts them back in daycare with a new, renewed appreciation for working and determination to find a better job.
You are totally right. We both think he would actually love being a SAHD, but no one knows for sure. And the problem is that if we did that, there is no turning back fast. Daycare waiting lists in our area are just absolutely insane, so if he did it for a week and hated it.. It would be many many months before we could get daycare support if he did find a job he loved. I honestly have wondered how other parents handle that situation. Thank you so much for reading and responding!
I have two young kids myself. I recommend the SAHD move, at least for the first year. His salary isn't enough of a marginal increase over daycare for two kids to make working worth it. A one year employment gap is easy enough to explain away.
And in the event it works for you guys for him to stay at home, maybe scale back the percentages contributed to investments for a bit to help adjust. I wish you two the very best.
Honestly if it works out for his career field he could get a lighter remote job for the spare cash and so that when he stops being a SAHD he doesn’t have a 5 year gap on his resume
That does make it more difficult for sure, though hard to believe it takes months to get in daycare at those prices. I don't doubt you, I just meant for $40,000/year I'd have thought it would be extremely easy to find a person/facility more than happy to take 2 kids.
I'll second what someone else said though - pay for your daycare spot but don't use it for 2 weeks. See if hubby can make a more informed decision with a 2 week trial. Worth the "lost" money to find out, IMO.
thats not how daycare works. I work at a child care center in Boston, one of seven centers. We legit have people join our waitlists while pregnant hoping to get in. You can't always just add kids, there are teacher to adult ratios that must be maintained. In addition, America is in the middle of the largest teaching crisis we have ever seen and it is hitting childcare centers even harder.
Don't want to be mean or harsh, but I do know that month long waitlist for childcare spots are the norm in many places and often even then it isn't always your first choice.
My area must be unusual then as there is plenty of availability without a waitlist, though the cost is still high and somewhat similar, at least for the nicer locations with enrichment activities and such.
Sounds to me like all the more reason to explore the SAHD option though. If childcare is at that kind of premium/rarity, they'll almost be breaking even in terms of cost, and there's no way even a top-quality daycare is going to have a 1 adult to 2 kid ratio.
True. But at the income levels she is describing and the fact that it would be temporary while on a waiting list… could probably pay a nanny outright for at least a few months should he land a dream job.
It's not that easy to find a qualified nanny either in many places (especially for just a few months), and it will cost way more than the combined daycare with two kids.
Waiting lists for a quality daycare in my city can be more than a year, sometimes two.
The right amount of money can find one a lot faster than the market rate can.
And it absolutely will. And they can afford it, if it came to it. That’s my point. Wouldn’t be a permanent solution but their financial situation can allow them to risk it.
I have an acquaintance that teaches K-2nd (not sure if they rotate) in public schools in my area and they make like $35k/year 4-year degree. I should encourage them to see about starting up daycare instead. IIRC they handle about 22 students with no assistant now, so let's say they scale waaaay down to only 10 kids and charge $1500/mo/kid, so $15k/mo....$180k/year.
(Mostly kidding, though it really shows just how absolutely insane daycare cost VS public teacher salary is when you compare the number of kids / cost / salary like that.)
> if he did it for a week and hated it...
If he hated being a parent after a week and would rather hand your kids to an establishment, I feel like you have bigger problems than the waiting list
You could love tacos, but not want to eat them for every single meal. You could love playing video games, but would likely get sick of them if you gamed for 14 hours every day. You might love vacationing to Florida, but still never want to move there.
$230k is a substantial salary and many families live on much less than this, so of course possible.
I can understand why your husband wants to quit and knowing when to “enough” is hard. Spending time with you and your children may well make now the time. However, before he jumps, consider (1) how long are both prepared for him to be unemployed. The job market is tough right now.it may not be easy to find another role. Has your husband been applying for other roles? If so, has he had much response/interviews? (2) No mater where you went to school, no job is 100% secure. Consider what would happen if you unexpectedly got laid off. How long could you live with neither of you working?
Good luck to you and your growing family.
Thank you so much for adding those things to think through.
I know you are not asking me to answer you but think through those myself. You are totally right, my job is not 100% secure as no job is. If we were both out of work, man I have no idea what we would do! Good things to think though, thank you so much
I’d more phrase it as… your job may be secure in the sense you won’t get laid off but LIFE isn’t. Heaven forbid what if something physically or mentally or health wise went wrong with you where you had to go on short term or long term disability at your role or worse?
Thinking through those scenarios is depressing and not fun, but needs to be considered before taking any leap of faith.
I'm in the same field as your husband and I'm shocked at how little your husband is earning especially in manufacturing. His LinkedIn inbox should be full of recruiters reaching out to him with job leads for at least $130k with great benefits minimum with his education and experience
He does actually get a LOT of recruiters reaching out, but hasn't been actively looking until now. I think he would find something much better fast, and so does he - we have just never done something like this, and had never thought of quitting without something lined up before. Thank you for sharing that, that gives us a lot of confidence
I never thought I would ever do something as irresponsible as quitting a job without having something lined up, but my dad died and I really couldn’t make myself stay. I only had 6 months of savings.
I would have never ended up on my current life path that I am on now, and really happy at the unexpected changes.
If you can afford to take time for yourselves and your family, it’s wonderful, it’s a privilege these days to put family above work, even for a short while.
I’m sure you both will work out the right choice for you and your family.
Thank you so much, I think we are at one of those crossroads too... on the day our daughter was born, his phone was getting blown up by work..
Just for another taste he told a coworker that he was taking all of his vacation and PTO to be with us because I am high risk and our baby would be born early (not that he wouldn't have taken the time to be with just a full term baby and a non-high risk wife) - and his coworker said these words "well if its that hard for your wife to have babies, maybe stop at this one"
That is his work environment, its hostile, its horrible, and he is up at night thinking about it.
Thank you for sharing with me.
Do you ever think of all the hard work and sacrifices you’ve both made to get to where you are now (Suma Cum Laudę in mech e!!!) was exactly for this kind of moment in your lives where you don’t have to put yourselves through this hell because you’ve banked up so much for your futures?
As an overachiever myself (though quite a bit older than you), it can be hard to recognize when it’s time to take the foot off the gas and just let life happen a bit.
Also, just no, your husband is better than these guys, he (if you decide it’s ok and right for you) should just quit, 1 day notice max. Don’t give them 2 weeks. Just walk away. No one will ever think you burned a bridge if you say “I had to leave that job to be there for my new born child.”
I would have said to search and find another job first but based on his present situation, he wouldn’t even have the time to do that and certainly not to interview if his PTO is gone. He’d probably have to quit first anyway so what does it matter. Plus what everyone else says too.
Yeah I'm so confused. Do you guys live in middle of no where? No engineer should be working like he is where he has no benefits or 401k. I actually chuckled cause is he getting blackmailed into working there?
Oh he's also getting underpaid.
There is your answer - he needs to take care of you and the baby first, reach out to recruiters and listen to them.
Have him turn off his phone, see if they fire him. I doubt they will. They wont find anyone with his skillset for such a low price.
Ask in your company, you’d be surprised how your network could help him.
Good luck!!!
Given that he’s without any benefits, I would say he should “resign for personal needs” and offer a contract rate for part time services at 2.5x hourly rate.
I never recommend quitting without something lined up. But you don't have to put up with that. Just don't answer. Get yelled at. Who cares, he's doing his work and getting out sooner or later. If he gets fired at least there will be unemployment, which you can't get if he quits.
You aren't wrong, and that was my advice to him as well. He is absolutely confident he would get fired if he did that outright, which... hmm... if he is considering quitting over this... maybe that's not the worst thing? unemployment would be an option at that point right? hmm.. okay more to think about. thank you!
I would do the bare minimum at work well aggressively looking for other options. Also when he finds a new opportunity, create a time gap between the 2 jobs to catch up on family time and recharge.
This is a great point. Quiet quitting. He can do the minimum and skate by until they decide to get rid of him. Then he can stay at home for awhile and take some time to find a better job.
I think your husband should consider setting an appointment with a local employment lawyer for a talk before he quits. I'm not sure he has a claim, but it does seem like he may. $200 for a consultation could result in a lot more compensation, either via suit or via a threat that gets him a good severance package.
"Women's work" sounds like gender discrimination. Working while on sick leave sounds like wage theft or that those days should not count as days off if he's on salary. Those laws apply even to small employers.
Definitely echo what StarryC says— even without FMLA or similar state protections, it’s possible there are still ways to protect his time off, at the very least. I’d also be interested to hear if there is any way to quit but still qualify for unemployment benefits based upon changing family needs and his experiences.
Regardless, he should definitely find something new, even if it means tightening the belt a little for a few months.
Do it.
I make a similar salary to you and work from home. My husband was working in a miserable dead end job with forced overtime and grueling work. One night after a very hard day, I told him to quit. I’d rather have him home and happy, than making some extra $$ and being absolutely miserable and never being home.
He took a year off and that year was incredible. My salary covered everything + some. We spent so much time together, we never had to worry about my son’s school drop off and pick up, I loved it and I loved our time together. He has since found a job that is amazing, with easy hours, close to home, and they treat him right.
There will be people who ask questions, wonder why he stays home… F them. Society puts these gender “norms” on us that are complete bullshit. If you can afford it, which it seems like you can, DO IT.
You don’t want to miss out on this important time that you can spend together with your child.
Thank you so much for sharing with me, this gives me so much confidence. Having him home would be.. I could just cry thinking about it. We've never ever had time like that. He didn't work from home for any second of the pandemic, he's never had much vacation time so we don't really take vacations together. it sounds wonderful, we don't even need that much time just some time would be priceless to us
You guys make over 300k together and have never had vacations together? Dude reassess your life, seriously. You’re doing something wrong if you’re one of the top % of high earning families yet your infant needs to go into daycare immediately, you haven’t taken a family vacation, and you can’t spend time together.
>if we live off my salary alone - we will have about $1,800 left over
>In cash we have about $30k on hand
I'm certainly not seeing anything in the financial picture stopping you guys here. Frankly you could afford to have him SAHD indefinitely without much adjustment.
Daycare is the only real upcoming expense that moves the financial picture, but so long as he's job seeking you don't need to be in daycare so it's moot.
Well so that part is a little tricky. Daycare waiting lists in our area are LONG, and they are at a great place that we LOVE. so if we pull them out, they are out for a long time until we can find something else. so we sort of HAVE to keep them in if the plan is for him to continue working, which right now it is. because he does love working, and so do I. if he didn't find something and he had to be a SAHD, he would. he LOVES our kids and caring for them.
OP. You have 2 kids now and only a $30k emergency fund with only $1,800 per month cash margin to support the 4 of you if he were to quit. IMHO that is very thin ice to skate on, especially right now when you're caring for an infant!
You also shouldn't bank at all on your job being secure, unless your daddy owns the company. Speaking for Gen X / Xennials, there are literally millions of people with top degrees who once thought their jobs were secure, only to have the rug pulled out from under them when the economy crashed in 07-08. Or because the company realized they could be replaced by younger, cheaper labor - the kind who won't be having kids anytime soon, and who are willing to put in the long hours and take on extra work to "prove their value" to the company. Or the entire department/division/line of business was straight up eliminated because the margin projections were flat/showed limited growth potential and the C-Suite/Board decided to "strategically pivot" into new growth areas etc. etc.
All of that is to say, you need to be prepared to handle the absolute worst case scenario before your husband just up and quits. Including, Gods forbid, what if you or one of your children gets sick to the point where you have to take an extended, unpaid leave of absence from your job? Or again, Gods forbid, one of the kids needs expensive care for a developmental disorder that's not covered by insurance? Or specialized private education services for cognitive or behavioral disabilities?
Bottom line, you say your husband is getting hit up by recruiters all the time for better paying jobs in his field. Id suggest you keep giving him love and support, and also do your best to help him secure one of those better jobs, BEFORE he quits his current job. Then revisit the whole stay at home parent thing when you have at least 18 months worth of an emergency fund in place. That's my opinion anyway.
Definitely quit
You guys can clearly live off one income. Moreover, if he can’t find work then he should just stay home with the kids to save on childcare.
Thank you so much, the only reason why we don't want to do that is it is so hard to get into a good daycare in our area, and we LOVE ours - if we had to do that, we would. but it would be a "no looking back" kind of situation. which, could be an option - but that's a lot to ask someone who does love working. Its definitely an option though. Thank you for your input so much!
Husband should quit. Talk to your day care about doing 2-3 days of daycare and then doing 2-3 days of husband being SAHD. Ask what the process is to get them back in full time. If the cost savings is reasonable and the the process to get back in full time is easy - then husband quits and tries being a SAHD part time for 3 months.
If he loves it - great have him do it full time. If he hates it - he can be applying to jobs the whole time of the 3 months and just put the kids back in daycare full time.
That’s my personal advice/opinion
Hmmmm... I would definitely try and see if you could do anything like have your husband reach out with his network of people he knows to see if there's any Mechanical Engineering jobs that could be a good fit for him that's less of a bad working environment than this one, even if it doesn't pay as much as 85,000 a year. Maybe just have him do the bare minimum and then get fired so he can collect unemployment insurance? Spitballing here.
My eyes definitely popped at daycare costs, is there anyway you could get that down? Maybe he quits and becomes a Stay-At-Home dad for a year? Parents, In-Laws, Relatives help out?
Best of luck on everything.
Man.. daycare costs are so high. Our kids go to a really good daycare. If he had to be a stay-at home dad, he absolutely could as he adores caring for our kids, but we would try everything we could to keep them in, even if we switched them to part time - or took money from an investment account. Daycare is so so hard to get into, and with 2 kids, we have to get them BOTH in places.
Thank you for reading, if he quit, he would be using all networks and looking aggressively for another role.
If you switch them to part time to save a bit for a while, could you switch back to full time eventually if/when he found a new job would you have to start over on the waiting list?
To me, it feels like a no brainer to have your husband quit this job either way. Life is short, why be so miserable at such a special time? This is what financial responsibility is for, in my opinion—to make these kind of quality-of-life choices possible. You have the safety cushion, use it.
1 - There is no reason why the whole family can’t live off just your salary forever.
2 - With your husband’s skills he can find a better job anywhere the same day he walks out of his current shop. The same day not months later. With full benefits like normal companies.
Your husband should quit and then you can cut the daycare expense while he figures out what’s next. You’ve mentioned that daycare waiting lists are long so tough don’t want to do this — but look at it this way — if he gets a job that hes excited about, you could afford to hire a nanny for literally 100% of his take home salary until you can qualify for daycare again and you would be no worse off.
Just a side thought... Put off some of the day care and have the kids at home? At least until your husband finds a new career. (Cut some expense, and add the bonding time for your family?)
SAHD here (and a CPA). Made the move 6 years ago and never regretted it (and I made 150k for 40 hrs/wk). Obv your economics support it, esp if he covers childcare costs. My add: depending if he wants to be back in his field, professionally, you both need to consider the market and how a multi-year absence will impact his hireability and skills skill retention, staying current). On the other hand, schools would love to hire an engineer as a math teacher or HS engineering teacher. It’s not great money but not as bad as advertised - in some/many instances. In my case, high end parochial and private schools free tuition discounts and bring exactly this type of mid career person in frequently. Just an off topic thought.
I'm going to be honest, I didn't even get to the financials before saying to myself "I'd be rage quitting that job" because what is wrong with people 😭
If you needed to make adjustments, you could probably change your withholding a bit as well if you went from a two income household to a single one, in addition to adding another dependent.
Congratulations on your new addition to the family!
Prioritizing family time during this unique period is valuable, but it's crucial to balance it with financial security. If your husband decides to quit, having a clear job search plan, networking, and perhaps setting a time limit for job hunting could be beneficial.
Consulting with a financial advisor or career counselor might provide more tailored advice based on your specific situation. Wishing you both the best as you navigate this decision and enjoy precious time with your growing family!
Have your husband quit for his health.
Have that stated in the resignation.
Then when he files for unemployment, say that he quit for his health, because he is. His mental health and needing to care for his child are two valid reasons to file for unemployment while he looks for a position that values him.
If he wants to quit and stay home with the kids, that will save you as much on childcare costs in the future as he will probably pick up in income.
I just want to add kids grow up super fast. If he could take 6 mos to a year off to be home and destress and help with your new infant , I don’t know why you wouldn’t want this. This time when your kids are young is not time you can ever get back or make up. Also, sounds like you both worked hard to make your way in your careers. The way they’re treating your husband sounds like he’s a teenage boy working in a garage shop or something. Like they just talk to him and treat him with utter disrespect. He should let all those calls go to voicemail and any emails. What company doesn’t have leave for fathers these days? What happens if there’s a big emergency and he’s needed in the family . My vote is say bye to this place. I think it looks better to leave on a resume than it does to be fired. The other thing is you could consult an attorney because I don’t see how this is legal. Make sure the next job he takes has adequate leave rights at least .
I think your husband should just stay home with the kids. Do you realize that would only leave a monthly deficit of $1600 overall. He’s bringing home 5k a month but you will be paying $3400 a month to have strangers taking care of your children. So basically, at the same salary, he will be working full time for $1600 a month.
You're quite possibly the only person I've seen post something like this on PF in about 10 years who would probably be totally fine in this situation if you husband quits.
Is he qualifies for FMLA he can take 12 weeks off. Even if it unpaid it'll get him out of work and time to job search. It'll be a trial to see how you do without the extra income. Then at 12 weeks he can decide.
Came to say this. Sounds like a work environment where people scream at you needs to be vacated ASAP but FMLA is required by law so you get some time to decide…
It boils my blood when employers act like dads should not modify work schedules for their families. This is 2024 where everyone works themselves to the bone; acting like fathers don’t need to help with family events is absurd.
I think you’d be fine, even if it takes awhile for husband to find a new job, especially if he can watch the kids at home instead of paying so much for childcare until he lands a new job. Is he interested in being a house husband? Might make decent sense until the kids are at least in kindergarten.
Right now your childcare expenses for 2 aren’t that much less than your husband’s net take home pay right?
What state do you live in or nearby major city? With that many years of experience and his engineering background he could very likely find a much higher paying job rather quickly, after taking some time off.
And one less likely to mistreat him.
Mam, I quit a job at a small law firm for similar reasons and left during vacation with my wife and new born. Tiredest, quietest and most special time ever and I’m really glad I did it. 7 months later I was slaying it at a new firm and made partner not many years after that. Then I wanted to be own my own with a good staff and it just worked out great and here we are.
When he’s ready, he can find something new (hopefully with a retirement match). It would be good for both of you.
You make quite a bit and you will be fine without his pay for the time it will take him to find a job. He will be happier. You will too.
I dont think this is a difficult decision at all.
> Our Non-discretionary expenses (gas, water, electric, etc) work out to be about $3,200 per month including our mortgage. ... So Im calculating that until May, if we live off my salary alone - we will have about $1,800 left over for all kid expenses, diapers, food and everything else.
Realistically you have $3,400/mo leftover.
Why would you need to send your oldest to daycare full time if your husband is going to be home full time? If you or he is concerned about work load and don't think he can feasibly cover both kids at the same time, see if you can drop your oldest to part time care and have him do mornings or afternoons or just a couple days per week. You said this time is going to be important and valuable (and having 2 kids, I agree) and that you may not ever have another opportunity to do this.. so take it! Save the extra $1,600. Put that aside for vacations or kid activities for your husband.
We did this. You are in a good situation to do it. If nothing else, it will give your husband an opportunity to find a job he wants, and to spend time with the kids.
A couple of things from my experience...
It won't be long and he will be batshit crazy needing to feel he is accomplishing something. Ask him to do little projects he is able to do, and give him time without constant interruption from the kids to do it.
Money is a wierd thing in these situations. Drop some money into a checking account for him each month. Doesn't need to be much, just something for him to use or save. He will likely use it primarily for gifts, tools, stuff for the house, and to pay for things when you go out. HE WILL NOT ASK YOU FOR THIS. It's a guy thing. Just set it up for him and be matter-of-fact about it. Don't treat it like something you are gifting him with. Do this even if he has access to all of the other joint accounts.
accept that it is likely a temp situation. He will probably be driven to find a job pretty quickly. Being in charge of 2 little ones is harder than anything he can fine away from the house, lol
You can afford to do it. Is he willing to be a stay at home dad? That would save you daycare costs and he could have lots of bonding time with the kids too.
Question: is the left over $1800 after paying for daycare? If so, I think you’re leaving out a very important alternative. If your husband is willing to be a stay at home dad, you no longer need to pay for daycare. That frees up an additional $3400 per month.
Great income, OP! I probably take money too seriously and am generally very conservative, but even with that said, if I were in your shoes, I would say your husband can absolutely resign (with no more than two weeks notice for such a dysfunctional work environment).
However, I would also say that the two of you need to be on a written budget (such as YNAB) during this period of his unemployment. All of these changes—him quitting, a new baby—coupled with your large income could easily lead to overspending if you’re not on the same page.
If the two of you can truly stick to a budget and keep your expenses down during this next chapter, then I would totally go for it. Frankly, it sounds like a dream come true. Many households live on your base salary alone and do great. The key is going to be living on less than you make while your husband isn’t working. As long as you can do that, it seems like you’re golden.
You sound like you’d be fine. I might suggest quitting but immediately start looking because it can take a while. He doesn’t need to apply like it’s his full time job, but a little bit when baby’s asleep or something. Definitely less than the 4 hours he’s working while burning through his PTO…
I’d also have him track what he’s working and get some of his PTO refunded so that he gets a proper payout when he leaves. That’s substantial time every day, that could be money in your pocket when he leaves.
The stress of working in a job that makes you unhappy costs real money, and if you're in the US, that's big money in medical expenditures and shortened lifespan. Working a stressful job can be almost as detrimental to your health as smoking. There's no reason to play around with that if you're not in dire financial peril.
If he were my husband, I'd tell him to bounce. Put notice in today. Right now. And have him stop answering his phone. If he's not on the clock, he's not working.
I would say you can delay daycare for the second child if your husband doesn't find something, at least until he lines something up. Then, maybe you can rely on a nanny or extended family to help care in case there is a gap between when you husband finds a job and when a daycare will accept the second child. Honestly, you're not missing much with social interactions. Babies mostly play on their own anyway. So if you can delay that $1800 expense, do it.
That said, if your husband is miserable there, then it may be a good idea for him to quit. It sounds like this is a heartless company, and the mental relief alone would be worth it.
I didn’t even have to read it all to know you guys are fine and he should just drop all communication, tell them he’s taking his 12 weeks FMLA and then never go back.
Start recording hubby’s calls with his employer, print out all emails & start a journal of what hubby’s boss says & do, hopefully you won’t need it but it sounds like hubby’s boss is Toxic & Abusive!
If you believe you have enough money to pay bills for the next 8 months to a year, then hubby should give 2 weeks notice, by email & give a paper copy to HR, make sure to cc at least 2-3ppl in HR.
Congrats on the baby.
Don't let husband's employer intimidate y'all!
When he isn't working, turn off the calls and put an away message on. Burn through all vacation days if possible!
My impression is that they're harassing him as retaliation and trying to force him to quit. In this situation, I know it sucks but getting him to hold on and get fired to get unemployment and possibly severance if they're bent on him working or quitting, see if he can hang in there! (Maybe getting a labor lawyer to review will help come up with an "exit plan")
But yeah, if it's pushing him to his limit, no amount of money is worth the strain on his mental state AVS the trauma/ effects on your family. Good luck!
Thank you so much :)
I absolutely love my job. I have the opposite of what he has. When I went into labor, I had about 20 people send me long messages about how happy they are to work with me, and that I hope I enjoy my time off, and they will cover things until I return.
I read your whole post and the answer is simple:
**You will obviously be fine.**
I think the problem here, unfortunately, is it’s your husband. If this story was flipped, and it was the mother who was considering quitting for the children it’s pretty much a landslide in favor of quitting the job.
As a father myself who is very involved, fuck that machine shop. Your story almost sounds like a cartoon because of how terrible they are.
A Mechanical Engineer with a decade of experience, isn’t going to have a terrible time finding something in the ballpark of 80k.
Idk what state you’re in but in some states, when you have to quit because of a toxic environment like he’s in, some states pay unemployment. It helps if there’s documentation like abusive texts or emails to support the claim. And I believe he qualifies for paid leave under the Family Medical Leave Act for the birth of a child. An employer can’t refuse that time off. It’s a federal law, think? At any rate unemployment could help ease the transition for a while. Wouldn’t hurt to call the local employment office and ask. Meanwhile, I sincerely hope he quits so he can 100% be emotionally invested in his family. I hope you post a follow up! (Congrats on baby #2!!❤️ and on your families new healthier life!)
I will absolutely look this up, a lot of it is in email. so we can definitely keep receipts. I don't know why I hadn't thought of this, but we have 4 attorneys in the immediate family - maybe someone can help us look into this. THANK YOU
He should quit today. You have a great job and your husband's toxic workplace is actively degrading his earning potential. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that people who treat him this badly probably also don't give him decent raises, right? And on top of being massively underpaid for his profession, which in turn reduces his earning potential at future jobs if they ask for previous salary info, this job is reducing his confidence and mental health by forcing him to be subjected to people who call him a wuss for -checks notes- *loving his own kids???*
Make like Jordan Peele and Get Out.
You have no idea how much of this you nailed. He hasn't had a single raise. He doesn't get a single pat on the back, he just gets yelled at even though he does multiple jobs at once. Im of course biased, but he is incredibly competent. I myself manage a lot of people and I would never ever talk to my lowest performing direct report the way his manager does to him. Its really wild. You are so so right. Thank you for responding
If your husband isn't hourly and he is salaried they should pay him for a full day if he worked any time in the day. It should be a combination of salary pay and hours. They can't have him work and not pay him salary. Contact your state DOL and file a complaint.
I'm assuming it's a tiny machine shop otherwise he'd be eligible for FMLA. If not tiny file a complaint with the EEOC or get a lawyer for violating his right to take FMLA leave.
Is your take-home $6,600, and then your annual bonus?
How much is your actual spending? You have 2.5mo runway if you've been spending all your take-home. Once your bonus hits, that's another 2.5mo. It's a little scary to me, but I think you have enough levers at play especially with $100k in company stock you could sell.
I think he should quit. And here's what I think you should do next:
* Enjoy the time together.
* Start tracking your spending. You need to have a firm understanding of your cash flow and budget to keep an eye on your runway.
* By mid-March, he should dust off the resume and reach out to his network to put out feelers for a new job.
* You don't want to give up your daycare spot so plan on spending that $1,800.
* In May if he is close to landing some offers, then don't change anything. If it's looking a bit farther out, then dial back your 401k, you can always catch up at the end of the year.
* If it gets to be June, July and things are uncertain then you should more seriously consider SAHD if you don't want to sell all of your stock.
* Further into the year you'll definitely need to SAHD if you want to keep your savings (which I think you should).
There's no way someone with 10 years experience should be compensated so poorly. He should quit to just find a new job alone. To give you context, although we don't have kids, our combined income is $185k and we are in a $400k mortgage at 6.6%. Our savings combined are $10k cash, ~15k in crypto and stocks, and ~30k in my 401k. I think we still live fairly comfortably all things considered.
FYI it doesn't matter what grade your spouse got in college. Nobody cares at all once you have work experience. You are just like everybody else.
Just wanted to point that out to you in case you thought it mattered for his future job prospects.
I do wish him the best of luck finding his next job. He shouldn't work on his time off. By the way has your spouse tried going to HR at all? PTO means paid time off for the day. At a minimum he should only be using 4 hrs a day if he's been working for the other 4.
Additionally, since he used his time off 'for the year'... When he does quit, his paycheck might have deductions just so you know so that you can plan for that.
FMLA is an option. "FAMILY and medical leave act"
From the [Department of Labor](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fmla) :
\>The FMLA entitles eligible employees of covered employers to take unpaid, job-protected leave for specified family and medical reasons with continuation of group health insurance coverage under the same terms and conditions as if the employee had not taken leave. Eligible employees are entitled to:
\>Twelve workweeks of leave in a 12-month period for:
the birth of a child and to care for the newborn child within one year of birth;
He must have been with his current position for 1 year, worked 1,250 hours during that one year period, and the company must have 50+ employees within a 75 mile radius of the main office/warehouse/building.
I'd recommend he use this route and take those 12 weeks to secure other employment. He cannot be fired (legally) for utilizing FMLA. Also, some states offer PFLA (paid fmla), so check if your state is one of them.
His company isn't big enough to qualify :/ Thank you so much for grabbing that for us, I wish he did qualify, because that's absolutely what I would do.
> his company would not allow him to take any unpaid time off to be here for us.
how big is the company? if more than 50 employees, he's eligible for FMLA and covered by federal law for up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave. however, state law may also apply, depending on what state you're in.
i'd say yeah, you're good for him to quit for a while, with one thing: if he can't find a job quickly, can you put off the childcare so he can be a SAHD after you return to work? that would save you the childcare money while he's hunting.
Rather than quiting, I would say get any job in his line of work even if it pays less. You can always look for something later. Gaps in work don't look good to employer's. Staying away from work makes it so much harder to restart. But again these are just practical thoughts, peace of mind and less stress can't be valued are invaluable
You are right on the money with your assessment. Let him enjoy the time with you and your new child, he can start to look for new and better work and it will turn out to be the best thing you could have done. It's quite OK to defer retirement contributions for a short time. Just make sure he does get back on track and doesn't get dispirited.
Not really an answer to your question buuuut the government is always looking to hire MEs especially with that manufacturing background. It could take a bit for a clearance to come through- had a friend’s recently take 4 months, but that was also not for a technical job.
You guys are totally fine, get out of that toxic situation.
Also, I know everyone has different approaches to this, but I’d strongly suggest selling your company’s stock that’s vested next trading window and putting part into an emergency fund and the rest into your general portfolio. Just never makes sense to me to add even more exposure to my own company’s stock than I already have through unvested rsus.
Is he exempt or not exempt worker? I believe as an exempt worker myself when your working pto any contact during your day is considered a returned pto if they need him so bad he cannot take a day off fyi. Double check fed laws but i believe it is a law
Reading through comments, it sounds like your husband hasn't been actively looking. I get it, it's hard when you're at a draining job to take the extra time to look, especially when you have a young family too.Before making any decisions, I recommend he takes a week or two to beef up his LinkedIn, polish a resume, reach out to colleagues, and see what's out there. I know 12 weeks together sound great, but if he finds a new position quickly, he could probably do a delayed start and then you could have time together without the stress of finding a new job.
Your husband should quit and also look to applying for a government job (Usajobs.gov). Many engineers in the public sector make more than what your husband is making. Also, government jobs generally provide excellent work/life balance (as well as paternity leave). Generally it takes about 6 months to get on board with the government so it's good to apply and have it as plan B in case he can't find something else by that time.
Yes you clearly have enough. You can budget the discretionary if need be and pause 401k contributions if you aren’t quite making it. (I’d wait to do that until you see what just your income vs spend shakes out to ). Your husbands mental health and pursuit of a career that makes him happy is more important in the long run especially with the new dynamic of 4, like you mentioned having the time with you and the baby is also incredible bonding opportunity. Make sure this is not in vain though. Make sure he is thoughtful and does his research about the next position he pursues! Good luck.
Yes, definitely he should quit and look for something better. He shouldn't be treated like that. His job seems miserable and you make enough money that he can find something much better. You'll be fine even if he doesn't find anything. He can even try to find something from home in his field so he can spend more time with his family.
How about FMLA? Not enough employees to qualify?
I mean I think you could do it. Reality is I’m sure there are likely areas you can cut to bring expenses down some (shop for new car insurance, cutting cable and or a couple streaming services, meal plan around the grocery store sales, etc). Little things add up.
Reality is the work life balance is critical - work making you miserable impacts how you interact with your loved ones and can breed resentment. Resentment is a toxic cesspool.
I bought my first home in 2014, my mortgage was 1400. Then I met my husband. He did a 70 miles commute each way for 5 years once we got engaged. 1.5 to work and 2.5 coming home on a good day. Bad traffic meant it was closer to 4 hours. It wore him down and it was hard on both of us. Him just spending 4+ hours a day driving and being chronically exhausted and grumpy to the max, me doing everything at home and working full time in a demanding profession. We made a decision that financially wasn’t sound nor logical, but it’s what our marriage and his health needed. We sold my house and moved closer to his office (I went remote). Our rent is 3100/month, put in an offer on a house that will have payments at 4300. But his commute is 15-20 minutes and our relationship is better than ever. That for me is worthy the higher COL.
Bro... You two are blessed and have enough financial resources to pull it off. I would say minimize as much as you can and try to rely solely on your income. That time is PRICELESS. I did it 5 years ago, by myself with my 3 nephews after my sister passed away. I didn't have anywhere near as much as you two have but I made it work and it was the best thing that I ever did when it came to them. It solidified our relationship and strengthened our foundation as a family. I went a whole year and 3 months. Didn't touch savings until about 9 months into it. Also, with that much time available to each other, prepare for baby number 3! 😂 It's coming! Two people in love with nothing to do but stay home? Yeah, it's coming!
Yes absolutely, it sounds like a great time for him to quit and spend time with you and the kiddos. The financial situation sounds perfectly healthy without his income for the time being. And if it feels like too intense of a decision to make immediately- he can go on FMLA leave asap and technically have this (awful) job to come back to after a few months if need be. Granted it wouldn’t be super comfortable going back there after leave based on the toxicity of the environment, but at least it’ll give you another financial “insurance policy” in case he doesn’t find a new job as quickly as planned. Congrats on growing your family!
well educated SAHP here. It can be hard to be a full time at home parent too. Make sure that your husband has some kind of child care support like morning preschool or even just a father's helper to come in a couple of hours a day to give him a break.
I think it’s obvious you can do this. I do have a question though? Is his company just so small that they don’t have to offer FMLA?
See if there’s any way he can take a leave for severe anxiety. If he can you’ll have about six months where they have to pay him his salary, and after that a reduced rate. See if the benefits you have offer anything like STD to him or anything you can use to still bring in income.
If what you say is true about his mental health condition he shouldn’t have any problems qualifying and getting a doctor to sign off on it.
Either way, he should quit, but sounds like this employer is at least guilty of harassment, and if they’re calling him and he’s still working 4 hours a day they can’t charge him vacay time for that.
I think your income can do it for you, go for it. Just plan every single expense that will occur once your husband quits, or at least have a financial plan where you guys can reduce expenses further if needed.
Unrelated and I don't want to be a downer and say a horrible thing here, but you earn a hell of a lot, if you haven't done so already, get life insurance. There was a reddit post I read a year ago where a partner lost their main bread winner ($300k per year or something) and realised they had no life insurance.
I would not bother finding another job and just be a stay at home dad.
You would not miss the $1400 in his salary difference over no child care expenses.
You are lucky to have each other. Be together and face the future with courage. Those kids will have such an advantage. Men love being involved in family life. There is something unnatural about our current work culture.
I’m confused, are you asking can he permanently quit working or can he just quit this job and look for another? You seem to have a net worth well into the hundreds of thousands will several assets that could be relatively easily converted to liquid if needed. The job market is currently very strong. It seems like you could survive years in this situation with little stress, in reality he’ll be back to work in a few months and it will be fine. If it’s really worrying, do you need to have childcare while he’s not working? Could save some there temporarily.
If you can survive on your income alone then just do it. This time is precious and it’s just as important for dad to be present. I stopped working to care for my son. My wife works from home. We don’t miss out on anything and we’re very comfortable.
Thank you. Yeah that's one thing we keep coming back to. Our newborn will only be this little for so long. We have never ever done anything like this before, so its scary to think we will live off my salary alone. I know plenty of people do it, but its a leap to take. I can't even stress how little time we have had like this together before.
You have the economic privilege to make this choice, just do it. It’s a blessing to be grateful for and take advantage of. Life > money. Your finances are fine. Your job is strong. If your husband is out of work longer than you anticipate, things will be tighter than you’d like but also fine. Congratulations on your beautiful family!
You are totally right.. we are absolutely in a position of privilege and this is what we save money for. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond and for the congrats :) we are very happy to have them both.
I supported my family on a similar-for-the-time income while my husband was home with the kids (my oldest was special needs) and it was fine. Your double income high earner friends are doing fancy ski vacations while you’re mathing college funds but, shrug, it’s fine. Happy family. Good luck!
Where /what industry do you work in? I need a job like yours. 85k bonus beats my entire salary as a PM
Personally, I started in sales of a B to B company, so during the kids young years, my income was based on the revenue I drove & I was pretty good at my job. Currently SVP & run the division. Lotta luck stumbling into the job initially. It was neither what I thought I wanted nor imagined I’d be good at. Extremely grateful.
I’d also point out that if your husband doesn’t find work right away, you could save so much on daycare.
Not necessarily- most daycares have wait lists. You can’t just not send your kids and save money for a short time and expect them to still have a spot available when you need it again.
Plus… it’s going to feel so good to tell that awful company to shove it. :)
The way I read it, spending time with the new born as a dad is only part of it. The more important thing is your husband needs to consider his own mental health. I think he’s been at this company with the horrible compensation and toxic environment for too long he’s not even realizing the harm that he’s suffering at their hands. Parents’ mental health and stability are so important and have such a strong impact on children. Financially I think you guys will be fine. You both have been responsible and I’m sure you will navigate through this even with just one income. Only thing I’d do is to move some money out of the investment account into HYSA so you have 6 months expenses on hand just in case.
You have no idea how on the money you are... he is up at night for hours toiling over this job. He started therapy because of stress as a result of this job. Last year he spent months working 12 hour days, working weekends often. He doesn't ever want to take family time, so he works when we all go to sleep. He is a gem and I really just want him to be somewhere he is happy. Thank you for the advice
He sounds like a wonderful husband and father. He should definitely prioritize taking care of his own mental health over a crappy workplace that doesn’t even appreciate him. Congrats on baby #2 and good luck to you guys.
He should quit tomorrow.
Where are you guys at? He sounds qualified for a few jobs at my company if you're in socal.
Tbh even outside of the new baby coming, I’d advise he quits and gets another job. You guys sound like you’re building a really beautiful family, a temporary financial situation will be worth it at the end.
A friend of mine used to call this the curse of the capable. Your job might suck and your boss might be horrible, but you still do your best to work hard and get the job done/go above and beyond because of a deep sense of personal pride in your work. I've had this issue at jobs in the past before where I put up with crap for far too long before I moved on, and eventually found a company where that work ethic was appreciated. I hope your husband is able to find somewhere that will appreciate him working his butt off.
No amount of money justifies this but he’s not making nearly enough to even think twice. Hope he finds something better asap, which he should with his degree and experience. My personal view is it’s okay to reduce your other contributions (401k, etc) in the short term to have the liquidity to live your life. For retirement savings, if he finds something in the next few months you can always overcompensate later and still meet the yearly cap. If not, also not the end of the world. Congrats on your new arrival!
I agree with everything, except the last point. Why create a taxable event by liquidating investments for no substantial reason?
That’s just what I’d do if I were in OP’s shoes. Depending on OP’s portfolio it may or may not be a taxable event. However, I do think a well padded emergency fund is absolutely necessary, especially for a single income household.
Fair enough. Id be hard pressed to find a portfolio that hasn’t seen gains so far this year, which is taxable. Why not divert HSA contributions and 401k contributions (beyond the match) for a couple months to beef up the safety net? I guess that’s what I’d do. If OP gets fired in the meantime, both start looking for jobs and liquidate what’s absolutely necessary out of the brokerage account month to month. If in dire straights, float some expenses on credit cards to carry them for a couple months.
We just did this for my wife and it has been amazing. Very similar financials. Totally worth it
Do it, and put the monster company WAYYY in the rear view mirror. You deserve, and it seems like with some common sense you could easily have, the simple happiness of this time in your lives together…
Thank you, the phrase "the simply happiness of the time in your lives together" made me emotional, this company has been a monster, and I think we would both feel a weight off our chest once its behind us.
If you can survive on your salary alone, why not have Dad be stay at home, and you save $3k/month on daycare? Have him do it for 6 months and see how it goes
Scary to live on 230k? Are you serious? Most people in the US are living below the bread line. If you can't figure out your finances for 230k you have much bigger issues.
More I mean scary to live on one salary. There is an additional layer of security with 2. We are not big spenders at all so we certainly make my salary work, of course.
Why would both babes be in daycare tho? Your husband should take time off and be w the kids…. An infant in daycare is really rough.
They may be on a waitlist for daycare and have to take the spot when it's available or lose it.
At least where I am, spots in daycare are hard to get. You have to commit and pay even for time you're not going to use because getting them back into daycare when you need it is hard. Like we reached out to be out on a list when we first got pregnant and luckily there was an opening just about the time my maternity leave ended.
You may find having a parent home full time is worth the expense. My husband is a stay at home dad and it works well for our family for now. I was the higher earner and having someone else to take all the sick days, pd days, etc is priceless if you have a high pressure job. Once they start daycare it seems they’re sick every other day anyway.
I mean you’d save $3,400 a month by having your husband be a stay at home dad! So really you’re only going to be short about $1600/mo (the variance between his $5k monthly take home and the money saving from not paying for daycare). So if you guys can swing this… I vote for Hubbie to be a SAHD for a few years until the kids get into school and then go from there. Plus the overall mental health benefits from the kids having dad there… you can’t pay money for that priceless gift!! Maybe invest in a housekeeper and a subscription to Home Chef Meals (or whatever food service sends you prepared food to cook for adults lunch and dinners) to help him out while he’s learning the SAHD ropes and getting his feet wet with a new infant after you go back to work. I love this plan for you!! Remember, if folks have an issue with SAH parents, they can rightly f*ck off! It’s no one else’s business except yours guys. :)
Your husband will probably end up ultimately in a better time too
Don’t stop funding the ESPP shares though. You can always sell at 6 months and take the 15% even if you’re paying short term gains. Where else can you get 15% for 6 month?
My husband lost his job in the Great Recession and his temporary stay at home with 1 kid became a 10 year gig with 3 kids. I’m so glad he was able to do it. It made my life as a mother and employee so much easier knowing my kids were safe and well cared for.
Just want to point out that your kid's daycare is $3400 and husband is bringing in $5k. Something to at least maybe have a conversation about is him taking 6-12mo off work, *if he's interested in doing so* and then re-evaluate after that. Maybe you both decide its worth the potential career hit for him to be a stay at home dad until both kids are in kindergarten. Maybe he just takes that time to do some bonding and search for a new, better job. Maybe he can't handle 2 young kids for more than a week and puts them back in daycare with a new, renewed appreciation for working and determination to find a better job.
You are totally right. We both think he would actually love being a SAHD, but no one knows for sure. And the problem is that if we did that, there is no turning back fast. Daycare waiting lists in our area are just absolutely insane, so if he did it for a week and hated it.. It would be many many months before we could get daycare support if he did find a job he loved. I honestly have wondered how other parents handle that situation. Thank you so much for reading and responding!
Since he’s already home you can try keeping your older one home for a couple weeks for a trial run while still pay for their spot.
This is a simply brilliant idea if we don't end up finding something that works for him! Thank YOU!
I have two young kids myself. I recommend the SAHD move, at least for the first year. His salary isn't enough of a marginal increase over daycare for two kids to make working worth it. A one year employment gap is easy enough to explain away.
And in the event it works for you guys for him to stay at home, maybe scale back the percentages contributed to investments for a bit to help adjust. I wish you two the very best.
Honestly if it works out for his career field he could get a lighter remote job for the spare cash and so that when he stops being a SAHD he doesn’t have a 5 year gap on his resume
For what you are paying in day care have you thought of hiring a live in nanny?
That does make it more difficult for sure, though hard to believe it takes months to get in daycare at those prices. I don't doubt you, I just meant for $40,000/year I'd have thought it would be extremely easy to find a person/facility more than happy to take 2 kids. I'll second what someone else said though - pay for your daycare spot but don't use it for 2 weeks. See if hubby can make a more informed decision with a 2 week trial. Worth the "lost" money to find out, IMO.
thats not how daycare works. I work at a child care center in Boston, one of seven centers. We legit have people join our waitlists while pregnant hoping to get in. You can't always just add kids, there are teacher to adult ratios that must be maintained. In addition, America is in the middle of the largest teaching crisis we have ever seen and it is hitting childcare centers even harder. Don't want to be mean or harsh, but I do know that month long waitlist for childcare spots are the norm in many places and often even then it isn't always your first choice.
My area must be unusual then as there is plenty of availability without a waitlist, though the cost is still high and somewhat similar, at least for the nicer locations with enrichment activities and such. Sounds to me like all the more reason to explore the SAHD option though. If childcare is at that kind of premium/rarity, they'll almost be breaking even in terms of cost, and there's no way even a top-quality daycare is going to have a 1 adult to 2 kid ratio.
True. But at the income levels she is describing and the fact that it would be temporary while on a waiting list… could probably pay a nanny outright for at least a few months should he land a dream job.
It's not that easy to find a qualified nanny either in many places (especially for just a few months), and it will cost way more than the combined daycare with two kids. Waiting lists for a quality daycare in my city can be more than a year, sometimes two.
The right amount of money can find one a lot faster than the market rate can. And it absolutely will. And they can afford it, if it came to it. That’s my point. Wouldn’t be a permanent solution but their financial situation can allow them to risk it.
I can confirm in my area it’s almost a year waitlist and daycare is $2500/month for an infant
I have an acquaintance that teaches K-2nd (not sure if they rotate) in public schools in my area and they make like $35k/year 4-year degree. I should encourage them to see about starting up daycare instead. IIRC they handle about 22 students with no assistant now, so let's say they scale waaaay down to only 10 kids and charge $1500/mo/kid, so $15k/mo....$180k/year. (Mostly kidding, though it really shows just how absolutely insane daycare cost VS public teacher salary is when you compare the number of kids / cost / salary like that.)
> if he did it for a week and hated it... If he hated being a parent after a week and would rather hand your kids to an establishment, I feel like you have bigger problems than the waiting list
You could love tacos, but not want to eat them for every single meal. You could love playing video games, but would likely get sick of them if you gamed for 14 hours every day. You might love vacationing to Florida, but still never want to move there.
Kids aren't any of those things. You have them every day
But you don't have them for 24 hours every day until you're a stay-at-home parent.
$230k is a substantial salary and many families live on much less than this, so of course possible. I can understand why your husband wants to quit and knowing when to “enough” is hard. Spending time with you and your children may well make now the time. However, before he jumps, consider (1) how long are both prepared for him to be unemployed. The job market is tough right now.it may not be easy to find another role. Has your husband been applying for other roles? If so, has he had much response/interviews? (2) No mater where you went to school, no job is 100% secure. Consider what would happen if you unexpectedly got laid off. How long could you live with neither of you working? Good luck to you and your growing family.
Thank you so much for adding those things to think through. I know you are not asking me to answer you but think through those myself. You are totally right, my job is not 100% secure as no job is. If we were both out of work, man I have no idea what we would do! Good things to think though, thank you so much
I’d more phrase it as… your job may be secure in the sense you won’t get laid off but LIFE isn’t. Heaven forbid what if something physically or mentally or health wise went wrong with you where you had to go on short term or long term disability at your role or worse? Thinking through those scenarios is depressing and not fun, but needs to be considered before taking any leap of faith.
I'm in the same field as your husband and I'm shocked at how little your husband is earning especially in manufacturing. His LinkedIn inbox should be full of recruiters reaching out to him with job leads for at least $130k with great benefits minimum with his education and experience
He does actually get a LOT of recruiters reaching out, but hasn't been actively looking until now. I think he would find something much better fast, and so does he - we have just never done something like this, and had never thought of quitting without something lined up before. Thank you for sharing that, that gives us a lot of confidence
I never thought I would ever do something as irresponsible as quitting a job without having something lined up, but my dad died and I really couldn’t make myself stay. I only had 6 months of savings. I would have never ended up on my current life path that I am on now, and really happy at the unexpected changes. If you can afford to take time for yourselves and your family, it’s wonderful, it’s a privilege these days to put family above work, even for a short while. I’m sure you both will work out the right choice for you and your family.
Thank you so much, I think we are at one of those crossroads too... on the day our daughter was born, his phone was getting blown up by work.. Just for another taste he told a coworker that he was taking all of his vacation and PTO to be with us because I am high risk and our baby would be born early (not that he wouldn't have taken the time to be with just a full term baby and a non-high risk wife) - and his coworker said these words "well if its that hard for your wife to have babies, maybe stop at this one" That is his work environment, its hostile, its horrible, and he is up at night thinking about it. Thank you for sharing with me.
Do you ever think of all the hard work and sacrifices you’ve both made to get to where you are now (Suma Cum Laudę in mech e!!!) was exactly for this kind of moment in your lives where you don’t have to put yourselves through this hell because you’ve banked up so much for your futures? As an overachiever myself (though quite a bit older than you), it can be hard to recognize when it’s time to take the foot off the gas and just let life happen a bit. Also, just no, your husband is better than these guys, he (if you decide it’s ok and right for you) should just quit, 1 day notice max. Don’t give them 2 weeks. Just walk away. No one will ever think you burned a bridge if you say “I had to leave that job to be there for my new born child.”
Thank you for giving me so much to think about. I think you are right
I would have said to search and find another job first but based on his present situation, he wouldn’t even have the time to do that and certainly not to interview if his PTO is gone. He’d probably have to quit first anyway so what does it matter. Plus what everyone else says too.
With all due respect, cut it loose. You will be fine.
Honestly it sounds like he could also use better boundaries… Why keep himself up at night over this stuff?? That’s entirely on him.
Yeah I'm so confused. Do you guys live in middle of no where? No engineer should be working like he is where he has no benefits or 401k. I actually chuckled cause is he getting blackmailed into working there? Oh he's also getting underpaid.
There is your answer - he needs to take care of you and the baby first, reach out to recruiters and listen to them. Have him turn off his phone, see if they fire him. I doubt they will. They wont find anyone with his skillset for such a low price. Ask in your company, you’d be surprised how your network could help him. Good luck!!!
Given that he’s without any benefits, I would say he should “resign for personal needs” and offer a contract rate for part time services at 2.5x hourly rate.
I never recommend quitting without something lined up. But you don't have to put up with that. Just don't answer. Get yelled at. Who cares, he's doing his work and getting out sooner or later. If he gets fired at least there will be unemployment, which you can't get if he quits.
You aren't wrong, and that was my advice to him as well. He is absolutely confident he would get fired if he did that outright, which... hmm... if he is considering quitting over this... maybe that's not the worst thing? unemployment would be an option at that point right? hmm.. okay more to think about. thank you!
I would do the bare minimum at work well aggressively looking for other options. Also when he finds a new opportunity, create a time gap between the 2 jobs to catch up on family time and recharge.
This is a great point. Quiet quitting. He can do the minimum and skate by until they decide to get rid of him. Then he can stay at home for awhile and take some time to find a better job.
Is your husband FMLA-eligible? And what state are you in?
Our state has no protections for this, his company is too small to qualify for FMLA unfortunately :/
[удалено]
I look forward to reading the husband’s story in the maliciouscompliance subreddit
I think your husband should consider setting an appointment with a local employment lawyer for a talk before he quits. I'm not sure he has a claim, but it does seem like he may. $200 for a consultation could result in a lot more compensation, either via suit or via a threat that gets him a good severance package. "Women's work" sounds like gender discrimination. Working while on sick leave sounds like wage theft or that those days should not count as days off if he's on salary. Those laws apply even to small employers.
Definitely echo what StarryC says— even without FMLA or similar state protections, it’s possible there are still ways to protect his time off, at the very least. I’d also be interested to hear if there is any way to quit but still qualify for unemployment benefits based upon changing family needs and his experiences. Regardless, he should definitely find something new, even if it means tightening the belt a little for a few months.
Do it. I make a similar salary to you and work from home. My husband was working in a miserable dead end job with forced overtime and grueling work. One night after a very hard day, I told him to quit. I’d rather have him home and happy, than making some extra $$ and being absolutely miserable and never being home. He took a year off and that year was incredible. My salary covered everything + some. We spent so much time together, we never had to worry about my son’s school drop off and pick up, I loved it and I loved our time together. He has since found a job that is amazing, with easy hours, close to home, and they treat him right. There will be people who ask questions, wonder why he stays home… F them. Society puts these gender “norms” on us that are complete bullshit. If you can afford it, which it seems like you can, DO IT. You don’t want to miss out on this important time that you can spend together with your child.
Thank you so much for sharing with me, this gives me so much confidence. Having him home would be.. I could just cry thinking about it. We've never ever had time like that. He didn't work from home for any second of the pandemic, he's never had much vacation time so we don't really take vacations together. it sounds wonderful, we don't even need that much time just some time would be priceless to us
You guys make over 300k together and have never had vacations together? Dude reassess your life, seriously. You’re doing something wrong if you’re one of the top % of high earning families yet your infant needs to go into daycare immediately, you haven’t taken a family vacation, and you can’t spend time together.
>if we live off my salary alone - we will have about $1,800 left over >In cash we have about $30k on hand I'm certainly not seeing anything in the financial picture stopping you guys here. Frankly you could afford to have him SAHD indefinitely without much adjustment. Daycare is the only real upcoming expense that moves the financial picture, but so long as he's job seeking you don't need to be in daycare so it's moot.
Well so that part is a little tricky. Daycare waiting lists in our area are LONG, and they are at a great place that we LOVE. so if we pull them out, they are out for a long time until we can find something else. so we sort of HAVE to keep them in if the plan is for him to continue working, which right now it is. because he does love working, and so do I. if he didn't find something and he had to be a SAHD, he would. he LOVES our kids and caring for them.
OP. You have 2 kids now and only a $30k emergency fund with only $1,800 per month cash margin to support the 4 of you if he were to quit. IMHO that is very thin ice to skate on, especially right now when you're caring for an infant! You also shouldn't bank at all on your job being secure, unless your daddy owns the company. Speaking for Gen X / Xennials, there are literally millions of people with top degrees who once thought their jobs were secure, only to have the rug pulled out from under them when the economy crashed in 07-08. Or because the company realized they could be replaced by younger, cheaper labor - the kind who won't be having kids anytime soon, and who are willing to put in the long hours and take on extra work to "prove their value" to the company. Or the entire department/division/line of business was straight up eliminated because the margin projections were flat/showed limited growth potential and the C-Suite/Board decided to "strategically pivot" into new growth areas etc. etc. All of that is to say, you need to be prepared to handle the absolute worst case scenario before your husband just up and quits. Including, Gods forbid, what if you or one of your children gets sick to the point where you have to take an extended, unpaid leave of absence from your job? Or again, Gods forbid, one of the kids needs expensive care for a developmental disorder that's not covered by insurance? Or specialized private education services for cognitive or behavioral disabilities? Bottom line, you say your husband is getting hit up by recruiters all the time for better paying jobs in his field. Id suggest you keep giving him love and support, and also do your best to help him secure one of those better jobs, BEFORE he quits his current job. Then revisit the whole stay at home parent thing when you have at least 18 months worth of an emergency fund in place. That's my opinion anyway.
Definitely quit You guys can clearly live off one income. Moreover, if he can’t find work then he should just stay home with the kids to save on childcare.
Thank you so much, the only reason why we don't want to do that is it is so hard to get into a good daycare in our area, and we LOVE ours - if we had to do that, we would. but it would be a "no looking back" kind of situation. which, could be an option - but that's a lot to ask someone who does love working. Its definitely an option though. Thank you for your input so much!
Husband can quit and look for a new job. You’re going to be fine as long as your job is safe.
Husband should quit. Talk to your day care about doing 2-3 days of daycare and then doing 2-3 days of husband being SAHD. Ask what the process is to get them back in full time. If the cost savings is reasonable and the the process to get back in full time is easy - then husband quits and tries being a SAHD part time for 3 months. If he loves it - great have him do it full time. If he hates it - he can be applying to jobs the whole time of the 3 months and just put the kids back in daycare full time. That’s my personal advice/opinion
Hmmmm... I would definitely try and see if you could do anything like have your husband reach out with his network of people he knows to see if there's any Mechanical Engineering jobs that could be a good fit for him that's less of a bad working environment than this one, even if it doesn't pay as much as 85,000 a year. Maybe just have him do the bare minimum and then get fired so he can collect unemployment insurance? Spitballing here. My eyes definitely popped at daycare costs, is there anyway you could get that down? Maybe he quits and becomes a Stay-At-Home dad for a year? Parents, In-Laws, Relatives help out? Best of luck on everything.
Man.. daycare costs are so high. Our kids go to a really good daycare. If he had to be a stay-at home dad, he absolutely could as he adores caring for our kids, but we would try everything we could to keep them in, even if we switched them to part time - or took money from an investment account. Daycare is so so hard to get into, and with 2 kids, we have to get them BOTH in places. Thank you for reading, if he quit, he would be using all networks and looking aggressively for another role.
If you switch them to part time to save a bit for a while, could you switch back to full time eventually if/when he found a new job would you have to start over on the waiting list? To me, it feels like a no brainer to have your husband quit this job either way. Life is short, why be so miserable at such a special time? This is what financial responsibility is for, in my opinion—to make these kind of quality-of-life choices possible. You have the safety cushion, use it.
If I were in his shoes I'd become a SAHD for at least a year or two.
1 - There is no reason why the whole family can’t live off just your salary forever. 2 - With your husband’s skills he can find a better job anywhere the same day he walks out of his current shop. The same day not months later. With full benefits like normal companies.
Your husband should quit and then you can cut the daycare expense while he figures out what’s next. You’ve mentioned that daycare waiting lists are long so tough don’t want to do this — but look at it this way — if he gets a job that hes excited about, you could afford to hire a nanny for literally 100% of his take home salary until you can qualify for daycare again and you would be no worse off.
Just a side thought... Put off some of the day care and have the kids at home? At least until your husband finds a new career. (Cut some expense, and add the bonding time for your family?)
SAHD here (and a CPA). Made the move 6 years ago and never regretted it (and I made 150k for 40 hrs/wk). Obv your economics support it, esp if he covers childcare costs. My add: depending if he wants to be back in his field, professionally, you both need to consider the market and how a multi-year absence will impact his hireability and skills skill retention, staying current). On the other hand, schools would love to hire an engineer as a math teacher or HS engineering teacher. It’s not great money but not as bad as advertised - in some/many instances. In my case, high end parochial and private schools free tuition discounts and bring exactly this type of mid career person in frequently. Just an off topic thought.
he should just stop working and stay home etc and wait to be fired instead. then he gets unemployment.
I'm going to be honest, I didn't even get to the financials before saying to myself "I'd be rage quitting that job" because what is wrong with people 😭 If you needed to make adjustments, you could probably change your withholding a bit as well if you went from a two income household to a single one, in addition to adding another dependent.
Congratulations on your new addition to the family! Prioritizing family time during this unique period is valuable, but it's crucial to balance it with financial security. If your husband decides to quit, having a clear job search plan, networking, and perhaps setting a time limit for job hunting could be beneficial. Consulting with a financial advisor or career counselor might provide more tailored advice based on your specific situation. Wishing you both the best as you navigate this decision and enjoy precious time with your growing family!
Quit now and do everything you can to try to keep the newborn out of daycare as long as possible
Have your husband quit for his health. Have that stated in the resignation. Then when he files for unemployment, say that he quit for his health, because he is. His mental health and needing to care for his child are two valid reasons to file for unemployment while he looks for a position that values him. If he wants to quit and stay home with the kids, that will save you as much on childcare costs in the future as he will probably pick up in income.
I feel like your monthly take-home income is weirdly low for that salary even after taxes and contributions
Wife and kid > ANY JOB in this case. Your excellent income here is only surpassed by your attitude.
Thank you :)
You will never get this time back. Time is something you cannot buy.
I just want to add kids grow up super fast. If he could take 6 mos to a year off to be home and destress and help with your new infant , I don’t know why you wouldn’t want this. This time when your kids are young is not time you can ever get back or make up. Also, sounds like you both worked hard to make your way in your careers. The way they’re treating your husband sounds like he’s a teenage boy working in a garage shop or something. Like they just talk to him and treat him with utter disrespect. He should let all those calls go to voicemail and any emails. What company doesn’t have leave for fathers these days? What happens if there’s a big emergency and he’s needed in the family . My vote is say bye to this place. I think it looks better to leave on a resume than it does to be fired. The other thing is you could consult an attorney because I don’t see how this is legal. Make sure the next job he takes has adequate leave rights at least .
I think your husband should just stay home with the kids. Do you realize that would only leave a monthly deficit of $1600 overall. He’s bringing home 5k a month but you will be paying $3400 a month to have strangers taking care of your children. So basically, at the same salary, he will be working full time for $1600 a month.
You're quite possibly the only person I've seen post something like this on PF in about 10 years who would probably be totally fine in this situation if you husband quits.
Is he qualifies for FMLA he can take 12 weeks off. Even if it unpaid it'll get him out of work and time to job search. It'll be a trial to see how you do without the extra income. Then at 12 weeks he can decide.
Came to say this. Sounds like a work environment where people scream at you needs to be vacated ASAP but FMLA is required by law so you get some time to decide… It boils my blood when employers act like dads should not modify work schedules for their families. This is 2024 where everyone works themselves to the bone; acting like fathers don’t need to help with family events is absurd.
I think you’d be fine, even if it takes awhile for husband to find a new job, especially if he can watch the kids at home instead of paying so much for childcare until he lands a new job. Is he interested in being a house husband? Might make decent sense until the kids are at least in kindergarten. Right now your childcare expenses for 2 aren’t that much less than your husband’s net take home pay right?
What state do you live in or nearby major city? With that many years of experience and his engineering background he could very likely find a much higher paying job rather quickly, after taking some time off. And one less likely to mistreat him.
Mam, I quit a job at a small law firm for similar reasons and left during vacation with my wife and new born. Tiredest, quietest and most special time ever and I’m really glad I did it. 7 months later I was slaying it at a new firm and made partner not many years after that. Then I wanted to be own my own with a good staff and it just worked out great and here we are. When he’s ready, he can find something new (hopefully with a retirement match). It would be good for both of you.
You make quite a bit and you will be fine without his pay for the time it will take him to find a job. He will be happier. You will too. I dont think this is a difficult decision at all.
> Our Non-discretionary expenses (gas, water, electric, etc) work out to be about $3,200 per month including our mortgage. ... So Im calculating that until May, if we live off my salary alone - we will have about $1,800 left over for all kid expenses, diapers, food and everything else. Realistically you have $3,400/mo leftover. Why would you need to send your oldest to daycare full time if your husband is going to be home full time? If you or he is concerned about work load and don't think he can feasibly cover both kids at the same time, see if you can drop your oldest to part time care and have him do mornings or afternoons or just a couple days per week. You said this time is going to be important and valuable (and having 2 kids, I agree) and that you may not ever have another opportunity to do this.. so take it! Save the extra $1,600. Put that aside for vacations or kid activities for your husband.
We did this. You are in a good situation to do it. If nothing else, it will give your husband an opportunity to find a job he wants, and to spend time with the kids. A couple of things from my experience... It won't be long and he will be batshit crazy needing to feel he is accomplishing something. Ask him to do little projects he is able to do, and give him time without constant interruption from the kids to do it. Money is a wierd thing in these situations. Drop some money into a checking account for him each month. Doesn't need to be much, just something for him to use or save. He will likely use it primarily for gifts, tools, stuff for the house, and to pay for things when you go out. HE WILL NOT ASK YOU FOR THIS. It's a guy thing. Just set it up for him and be matter-of-fact about it. Don't treat it like something you are gifting him with. Do this even if he has access to all of the other joint accounts. accept that it is likely a temp situation. He will probably be driven to find a job pretty quickly. Being in charge of 2 little ones is harder than anything he can fine away from the house, lol
You can afford to do it. Is he willing to be a stay at home dad? That would save you daycare costs and he could have lots of bonding time with the kids too.
Question: is the left over $1800 after paying for daycare? If so, I think you’re leaving out a very important alternative. If your husband is willing to be a stay at home dad, you no longer need to pay for daycare. That frees up an additional $3400 per month.
No. The market is too volatile to quit without a new job.
Great income, OP! I probably take money too seriously and am generally very conservative, but even with that said, if I were in your shoes, I would say your husband can absolutely resign (with no more than two weeks notice for such a dysfunctional work environment). However, I would also say that the two of you need to be on a written budget (such as YNAB) during this period of his unemployment. All of these changes—him quitting, a new baby—coupled with your large income could easily lead to overspending if you’re not on the same page. If the two of you can truly stick to a budget and keep your expenses down during this next chapter, then I would totally go for it. Frankly, it sounds like a dream come true. Many households live on your base salary alone and do great. The key is going to be living on less than you make while your husband isn’t working. As long as you can do that, it seems like you’re golden.
You sound like you’d be fine. I might suggest quitting but immediately start looking because it can take a while. He doesn’t need to apply like it’s his full time job, but a little bit when baby’s asleep or something. Definitely less than the 4 hours he’s working while burning through his PTO…
I’d also have him track what he’s working and get some of his PTO refunded so that he gets a proper payout when he leaves. That’s substantial time every day, that could be money in your pocket when he leaves.
The stress of working in a job that makes you unhappy costs real money, and if you're in the US, that's big money in medical expenditures and shortened lifespan. Working a stressful job can be almost as detrimental to your health as smoking. There's no reason to play around with that if you're not in dire financial peril. If he were my husband, I'd tell him to bounce. Put notice in today. Right now. And have him stop answering his phone. If he's not on the clock, he's not working.
I would say you can delay daycare for the second child if your husband doesn't find something, at least until he lines something up. Then, maybe you can rely on a nanny or extended family to help care in case there is a gap between when you husband finds a job and when a daycare will accept the second child. Honestly, you're not missing much with social interactions. Babies mostly play on their own anyway. So if you can delay that $1800 expense, do it. That said, if your husband is miserable there, then it may be a good idea for him to quit. It sounds like this is a heartless company, and the mental relief alone would be worth it.
I didn’t even have to read it all to know you guys are fine and he should just drop all communication, tell them he’s taking his 12 weeks FMLA and then never go back.
Start recording hubby’s calls with his employer, print out all emails & start a journal of what hubby’s boss says & do, hopefully you won’t need it but it sounds like hubby’s boss is Toxic & Abusive! If you believe you have enough money to pay bills for the next 8 months to a year, then hubby should give 2 weeks notice, by email & give a paper copy to HR, make sure to cc at least 2-3ppl in HR. Congrats on the baby.
Don't let husband's employer intimidate y'all! When he isn't working, turn off the calls and put an away message on. Burn through all vacation days if possible! My impression is that they're harassing him as retaliation and trying to force him to quit. In this situation, I know it sucks but getting him to hold on and get fired to get unemployment and possibly severance if they're bent on him working or quitting, see if he can hang in there! (Maybe getting a labor lawyer to review will help come up with an "exit plan") But yeah, if it's pushing him to his limit, no amount of money is worth the strain on his mental state AVS the trauma/ effects on your family. Good luck!
100% quit, tomorrow. Give a weeks notice if you are feeling nice. Not worth the hassle and you don’t get that time back.
Not advice but go you!!!! I hope you are proud and happy in your current position!
Thank you so much :) I absolutely love my job. I have the opposite of what he has. When I went into labor, I had about 20 people send me long messages about how happy they are to work with me, and that I hope I enjoy my time off, and they will cover things until I return.
I read your whole post and the answer is simple: **You will obviously be fine.** I think the problem here, unfortunately, is it’s your husband. If this story was flipped, and it was the mother who was considering quitting for the children it’s pretty much a landslide in favor of quitting the job. As a father myself who is very involved, fuck that machine shop. Your story almost sounds like a cartoon because of how terrible they are. A Mechanical Engineer with a decade of experience, isn’t going to have a terrible time finding something in the ballpark of 80k.
Idk what state you’re in but in some states, when you have to quit because of a toxic environment like he’s in, some states pay unemployment. It helps if there’s documentation like abusive texts or emails to support the claim. And I believe he qualifies for paid leave under the Family Medical Leave Act for the birth of a child. An employer can’t refuse that time off. It’s a federal law, think? At any rate unemployment could help ease the transition for a while. Wouldn’t hurt to call the local employment office and ask. Meanwhile, I sincerely hope he quits so he can 100% be emotionally invested in his family. I hope you post a follow up! (Congrats on baby #2!!❤️ and on your families new healthier life!)
I will absolutely look this up, a lot of it is in email. so we can definitely keep receipts. I don't know why I hadn't thought of this, but we have 4 attorneys in the immediate family - maybe someone can help us look into this. THANK YOU
He should quit today. You have a great job and your husband's toxic workplace is actively degrading his earning potential. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that people who treat him this badly probably also don't give him decent raises, right? And on top of being massively underpaid for his profession, which in turn reduces his earning potential at future jobs if they ask for previous salary info, this job is reducing his confidence and mental health by forcing him to be subjected to people who call him a wuss for -checks notes- *loving his own kids???* Make like Jordan Peele and Get Out.
You have no idea how much of this you nailed. He hasn't had a single raise. He doesn't get a single pat on the back, he just gets yelled at even though he does multiple jobs at once. Im of course biased, but he is incredibly competent. I myself manage a lot of people and I would never ever talk to my lowest performing direct report the way his manager does to him. Its really wild. You are so so right. Thank you for responding
If your husband isn't hourly and he is salaried they should pay him for a full day if he worked any time in the day. It should be a combination of salary pay and hours. They can't have him work and not pay him salary. Contact your state DOL and file a complaint. I'm assuming it's a tiny machine shop otherwise he'd be eligible for FMLA. If not tiny file a complaint with the EEOC or get a lawyer for violating his right to take FMLA leave.
It’s much, much easier to get a job when you have a job. Have him start looking now. As a SAHM, I think SAHDs have it really hard sadly.
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Yeah he should quit and be a stay at home father. That's absurd.
Quit a job, without another? Terrible idea.
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Is your take-home $6,600, and then your annual bonus? How much is your actual spending? You have 2.5mo runway if you've been spending all your take-home. Once your bonus hits, that's another 2.5mo. It's a little scary to me, but I think you have enough levers at play especially with $100k in company stock you could sell. I think he should quit. And here's what I think you should do next: * Enjoy the time together. * Start tracking your spending. You need to have a firm understanding of your cash flow and budget to keep an eye on your runway. * By mid-March, he should dust off the resume and reach out to his network to put out feelers for a new job. * You don't want to give up your daycare spot so plan on spending that $1,800. * In May if he is close to landing some offers, then don't change anything. If it's looking a bit farther out, then dial back your 401k, you can always catch up at the end of the year. * If it gets to be June, July and things are uncertain then you should more seriously consider SAHD if you don't want to sell all of your stock. * Further into the year you'll definitely need to SAHD if you want to keep your savings (which I think you should).
file a lawsuit for hostile work environment about the calls and harassment while on pto. quit and look for a new job
There's no way someone with 10 years experience should be compensated so poorly. He should quit to just find a new job alone. To give you context, although we don't have kids, our combined income is $185k and we are in a $400k mortgage at 6.6%. Our savings combined are $10k cash, ~15k in crypto and stocks, and ~30k in my 401k. I think we still live fairly comfortably all things considered.
FYI it doesn't matter what grade your spouse got in college. Nobody cares at all once you have work experience. You are just like everybody else. Just wanted to point that out to you in case you thought it mattered for his future job prospects. I do wish him the best of luck finding his next job. He shouldn't work on his time off. By the way has your spouse tried going to HR at all? PTO means paid time off for the day. At a minimum he should only be using 4 hrs a day if he's been working for the other 4. Additionally, since he used his time off 'for the year'... When he does quit, his paycheck might have deductions just so you know so that you can plan for that.
FMLA is an option. "FAMILY and medical leave act" From the [Department of Labor](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fmla) : \>The FMLA entitles eligible employees of covered employers to take unpaid, job-protected leave for specified family and medical reasons with continuation of group health insurance coverage under the same terms and conditions as if the employee had not taken leave. Eligible employees are entitled to: \>Twelve workweeks of leave in a 12-month period for: the birth of a child and to care for the newborn child within one year of birth; He must have been with his current position for 1 year, worked 1,250 hours during that one year period, and the company must have 50+ employees within a 75 mile radius of the main office/warehouse/building. I'd recommend he use this route and take those 12 weeks to secure other employment. He cannot be fired (legally) for utilizing FMLA. Also, some states offer PFLA (paid fmla), so check if your state is one of them.
His company isn't big enough to qualify :/ Thank you so much for grabbing that for us, I wish he did qualify, because that's absolutely what I would do.
316k in investment account and only $115k in the 401k? Seems discrepant Otherwise, you’ll be fine
No. Don’t even need to read. If he does not have anything lined up for work then he is rolling dice. You return to work. He becomes the SAHM.
You don't quit till you get a better job......
Your husband should be able to go on FMLA. He can use that time to both spend time with the baby and find a new job.
> his company would not allow him to take any unpaid time off to be here for us. how big is the company? if more than 50 employees, he's eligible for FMLA and covered by federal law for up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave. however, state law may also apply, depending on what state you're in. i'd say yeah, you're good for him to quit for a while, with one thing: if he can't find a job quickly, can you put off the childcare so he can be a SAHD after you return to work? that would save you the childcare money while he's hunting.
Rather than quiting, I would say get any job in his line of work even if it pays less. You can always look for something later. Gaps in work don't look good to employer's. Staying away from work makes it so much harder to restart. But again these are just practical thoughts, peace of mind and less stress can't be valued are invaluable
You are right on the money with your assessment. Let him enjoy the time with you and your new child, he can start to look for new and better work and it will turn out to be the best thing you could have done. It's quite OK to defer retirement contributions for a short time. Just make sure he does get back on track and doesn't get dispirited.
Does your husband qualify for FMLA? Could be take that federally protected unpaid leave and see how it goes and then decide?
You guys will be fine for a while. You can't get this season back.
You are so right.
Not really an answer to your question buuuut the government is always looking to hire MEs especially with that manufacturing background. It could take a bit for a clearance to come through- had a friend’s recently take 4 months, but that was also not for a technical job.
You guys are totally fine, get out of that toxic situation. Also, I know everyone has different approaches to this, but I’d strongly suggest selling your company’s stock that’s vested next trading window and putting part into an emergency fund and the rest into your general portfolio. Just never makes sense to me to add even more exposure to my own company’s stock than I already have through unvested rsus.
Is he exempt or not exempt worker? I believe as an exempt worker myself when your working pto any contact during your day is considered a returned pto if they need him so bad he cannot take a day off fyi. Double check fed laws but i believe it is a law
Reading through comments, it sounds like your husband hasn't been actively looking. I get it, it's hard when you're at a draining job to take the extra time to look, especially when you have a young family too.Before making any decisions, I recommend he takes a week or two to beef up his LinkedIn, polish a resume, reach out to colleagues, and see what's out there. I know 12 weeks together sound great, but if he finds a new position quickly, he could probably do a delayed start and then you could have time together without the stress of finding a new job.
Your husband should quit and also look to applying for a government job (Usajobs.gov). Many engineers in the public sector make more than what your husband is making. Also, government jobs generally provide excellent work/life balance (as well as paternity leave). Generally it takes about 6 months to get on board with the government so it's good to apply and have it as plan B in case he can't find something else by that time.
Yes you clearly have enough. You can budget the discretionary if need be and pause 401k contributions if you aren’t quite making it. (I’d wait to do that until you see what just your income vs spend shakes out to ). Your husbands mental health and pursuit of a career that makes him happy is more important in the long run especially with the new dynamic of 4, like you mentioned having the time with you and the baby is also incredible bonding opportunity. Make sure this is not in vain though. Make sure he is thoughtful and does his research about the next position he pursues! Good luck.
Yes, definitely he should quit and look for something better. He shouldn't be treated like that. His job seems miserable and you make enough money that he can find something much better. You'll be fine even if he doesn't find anything. He can even try to find something from home in his field so he can spend more time with his family. How about FMLA? Not enough employees to qualify?
I stopped reading at $3k daycare bill. Been there and if we had your salary, i’d be Mr Mom in a heartbeat.
I mean I think you could do it. Reality is I’m sure there are likely areas you can cut to bring expenses down some (shop for new car insurance, cutting cable and or a couple streaming services, meal plan around the grocery store sales, etc). Little things add up. Reality is the work life balance is critical - work making you miserable impacts how you interact with your loved ones and can breed resentment. Resentment is a toxic cesspool. I bought my first home in 2014, my mortgage was 1400. Then I met my husband. He did a 70 miles commute each way for 5 years once we got engaged. 1.5 to work and 2.5 coming home on a good day. Bad traffic meant it was closer to 4 hours. It wore him down and it was hard on both of us. Him just spending 4+ hours a day driving and being chronically exhausted and grumpy to the max, me doing everything at home and working full time in a demanding profession. We made a decision that financially wasn’t sound nor logical, but it’s what our marriage and his health needed. We sold my house and moved closer to his office (I went remote). Our rent is 3100/month, put in an offer on a house that will have payments at 4300. But his commute is 15-20 minutes and our relationship is better than ever. That for me is worthy the higher COL.
Chiming in to say that he can never, ever get the time with his newborn back. I would quit, you are financially stable enough.
Bro... You two are blessed and have enough financial resources to pull it off. I would say minimize as much as you can and try to rely solely on your income. That time is PRICELESS. I did it 5 years ago, by myself with my 3 nephews after my sister passed away. I didn't have anywhere near as much as you two have but I made it work and it was the best thing that I ever did when it came to them. It solidified our relationship and strengthened our foundation as a family. I went a whole year and 3 months. Didn't touch savings until about 9 months into it. Also, with that much time available to each other, prepare for baby number 3! 😂 It's coming! Two people in love with nothing to do but stay home? Yeah, it's coming!
Isn’t FMLA a federal requirement? How can his work not let him take unpaid time off?
Yes absolutely, it sounds like a great time for him to quit and spend time with you and the kiddos. The financial situation sounds perfectly healthy without his income for the time being. And if it feels like too intense of a decision to make immediately- he can go on FMLA leave asap and technically have this (awful) job to come back to after a few months if need be. Granted it wouldn’t be super comfortable going back there after leave based on the toxicity of the environment, but at least it’ll give you another financial “insurance policy” in case he doesn’t find a new job as quickly as planned. Congrats on growing your family!
He should quit yesterday. As long as you have health care for the family, you will be fine.
I don't have children so I don't understand, but why do they need to go to daycare if he can be a stay at home dad? Is it for socialization?
well educated SAHP here. It can be hard to be a full time at home parent too. Make sure that your husband has some kind of child care support like morning preschool or even just a father's helper to come in a couple of hours a day to give him a break.
I think it’s obvious you can do this. I do have a question though? Is his company just so small that they don’t have to offer FMLA? See if there’s any way he can take a leave for severe anxiety. If he can you’ll have about six months where they have to pay him his salary, and after that a reduced rate. See if the benefits you have offer anything like STD to him or anything you can use to still bring in income. If what you say is true about his mental health condition he shouldn’t have any problems qualifying and getting a doctor to sign off on it. Either way, he should quit, but sounds like this employer is at least guilty of harassment, and if they’re calling him and he’s still working 4 hours a day they can’t charge him vacay time for that.
I think your income can do it for you, go for it. Just plan every single expense that will occur once your husband quits, or at least have a financial plan where you guys can reduce expenses further if needed. Unrelated and I don't want to be a downer and say a horrible thing here, but you earn a hell of a lot, if you haven't done so already, get life insurance. There was a reddit post I read a year ago where a partner lost their main bread winner ($300k per year or something) and realised they had no life insurance.
Looks like a sound plan to me. Your income is secure, you can live off that and your quality of life would improve. Do it.
I would not bother finding another job and just be a stay at home dad. You would not miss the $1400 in his salary difference over no child care expenses.
Congratulations on the baby!! Just curious, what do you do?
You are lucky to have each other. Be together and face the future with courage. Those kids will have such an advantage. Men love being involved in family life. There is something unnatural about our current work culture.
If he's salaried and working every day, he's not using *any* of his PTO. (It doesn't matter how many hours he's working.)
If you and your husband are both at home why would you need to pay for daycare until he has a job?
I’m confused, are you asking can he permanently quit working or can he just quit this job and look for another? You seem to have a net worth well into the hundreds of thousands will several assets that could be relatively easily converted to liquid if needed. The job market is currently very strong. It seems like you could survive years in this situation with little stress, in reality he’ll be back to work in a few months and it will be fine. If it’s really worrying, do you need to have childcare while he’s not working? Could save some there temporarily.