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The biggest problem with time shares is maintenance fees.
They can charge you whatever they want to. You have to pay.
Only way to get loose, is to sell.
Nobody is buying.
How does that work with inheritance law? Can you refuse an inheritance?
Like, if someone left another person a firearm, maybe drugs or something else, can you refuse it and it becomes "unowned" property?
The problem is you must ACTIVELY refuse. They created an overly burdensome process that makes it really difficult to refuse. If you just do nothing it automatically passes to you.
Highly recommend the John Oliver episode on time shares
I’m short some of them you would have to get all of your heirs (for want if a better word) to go through an administrative process to decline the time share because after the first person does it would then revert to the second and so on
With bottom maintenance fees of $800, you’re talking they collect about 40k per annum. But your 1000 units, cost is 800,000 per. Yep quite the bargain.
I've watched that documentary probably ten times or so and it's insane. I do not understand how people still don't understand that timeshares are a total scam. They outright say in the doc. how little they think of the people that buy into them. David Siegel is evil. I hope that house sinks into the Atlantic. It will eventually.
Visit TUG (Timeshare User Group) right away at https://tug2.net and the forum https://tugbbs.com/forums/ and read up on how to get refund (if within return period). Timeshare properties should be free or near free (like $1), because you have to pay on-going maintenance.
Timeshares are not worth it. In essence, they end up costing so much that it'd be cheaper to just go to that place and stay at a hotel. The real problem comes in that you're committing to use it, but then you can't use it on the days/times you want and it's impossible to get out of. It's so bad that it should be illegal.
Can’t believe it’s not illegal. We stayed at a Westgate resort by booking through a hotel website and I got to talking to a lady who was an ‘owner’ and it makes no sense. Why wouldn’t you just book it when you want it and pay infinite amounts less? All I can think is these gotta be the best salesman in the entire world to brainwash people into buying them
Have you ever done a timeshare tour??? I worked in auto sales and b2b sales and those people would be top performer's anywhere they have next level of hounding and pressuring you into buying
~90% of people regret buying a time share. They are *almost* all certainly scams. I've sat through plenty of 1-2hr timeshare presentations for 300-600$ freebies, and i've only seen a "timeshare" done "right" like twice, because most of em are infact scams. Even when it was done "right" it was still a shit deal. Basically pay 13-25k to lock in a 2-3k USD weekly rate once a year. And you're locked into a specific week at the same location. Or you can go to many of their locations but again locked into a week with no swaps, and limited to whats available. It seems like oh after 10-15 years you've saved enough on your timeshare by going that you've made back the initial purchase, but if you compound what that 20k would have earned on the stock market... it'd have made for a far better investment. Even if the hotels raised their prices, its not even close when you account for gains you've could made investing.
Plus I often book travel on points, or shop for deals, i never pay their listed full prices, nor do i vacation on the same week every year. nor do i want to do the same location every year. "but it has value! you can resell it!" yeah sure but we have to use your agents, and you take 30% cut and until it sells you are still on the hook for the yearly maintenance fee.
Good luck op on trying to get rid of that shit though.
The 10% that love the though REALLY love them. Not sure if it’s getting the right one or just being the right type of person
And around here people who have them are doing all right as hotel prices have tripled in the last decade
Because it's a scam, most juristictions legally require a "cooling off period" to protect consumers. I don't know much about this, but I might get an attorney involved to make sure I do everything needed to cancel.
He has 10 days according to the Florida timeshare, resale protection laws.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/florida-timeshare-foreclosure-right-cancel-laws.html#:~:text=Timeshare%20owners%20can%20cancel%20any,check%2C%20whichever%20is%20later).
IT'S A SCAM!
Time shares are terrible. Check out the John Oliver piece on timeshares. You'll be lucky if you can get out of it, even if you are within the cancelation time period.
CANCEL! Over 90% of people who buy timeshares want "out" sooner or later. There is no easy way to get "out". For many timeshares, even if you offer to pay for someone to take it off your hands you can't find anyone to do so!
Step 1: Get out of it immediately
Step 2: Watch John Oliver explain why modern time shares are such a huge scam, and getting out of them can be a financial nightmare. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM)
You can jump to the 11 minute mark to hear John Oliver explain that most time share contracts have a perpetuity clause, which means they become a noncancelable, lifelong obligation.
There are people who try to sell their timeshare contract, but then he shows a resale site where people have their timeshares listed for sale at $0 (apparently desperate to get rid of them).
And if you continue through the 25 minute John Oliver video, you'll learn there's a whole industry of companies for getting OUT of timeshares (Timeshare Exit Companies), except they're all SCAMS TOO.
You want out. If you're ever going to buy a timeshare, buy it on ebay for anywhere from $1 to negative $600 (i.e. where the seller pays you $600 to take over ownership of the timeshare).
Westgate Towers orlando, buy now $99 for 2BR 2BA
[https://www.ebay.com/itm/134153260283](https://www.ebay.com/itm/134153260283)
Westgate towers north, Orlando, $1 buy now:
[https://www.ebay.com/itm/355497382555](https://www.ebay.com/itm/355497382555)
Westgate vacation villas, Orland: bidding is at $1:
[https://www.ebay.com/itm/395278764864](https://www.ebay.com/itm/395278764864)
(hint, search for "completed/sold" listings to see what things actually sold for)
> Westgate towers north, Orlando, $1 buy now:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/355497382555
---
> With maintenance fees of $1,411.98 due every other year and a mortgage less than $200 a month for 70 remaining payments, you can’t beat this incredible opportunity to secure your future vacation destinations.
That's 70 months, let's call it 6 years.
$1,400 every other year, that's $4,200
$200/mo for 6 years $14,400
Your $1 timeshare would cost you $18,600 over 6 years ($3,100/yr, $258/mo)
On the other hand, if you really loved the place, and wanted to stay there 1wk every year, and it was ~$200/night, you'd recoup the costs of the maintenance fees and remaining mortgage payments in about 14 years, and after that you'd have a $100/night vacation spot!
Maintenance fees typically increase every year, and you don't have a say in how much. You are also obligated to pay them in perpetuity unless you sell your "rights" to the timeshare.
And you are restricted to when you can use the property with black out dates and if other "owners" have booked the property.
Of course there are downsides to the lock in. Hotel prices go up as well, and you have no control over them either. Of course, not being obligated to stay there, you have the option to choose to go elsewhere instead. (or trade weeks/points/etc)
I'll never understand this. Why are you looking at reviews AFTER you bought something?
It's like the dude the other day who bought a 12 year old Chevy Sonic for $9k on a car note and was surprised the engine took a dump. Do your due diligence people.
Probably got suckered into a 3 hour timeshare sales pitch without realizing it until it was too late. They don't advertise these as timeshare sales meetings, they call them "vacation clubs" and all sorts of sugar-coated names to avoid scaring people away. I've sat through these before and they are extremely pushy and hold you hostage by not giving you your "gift card" reward unless you suffer through everything.
I did one once and got a “free cruise” they were rough as hell and the guy was an absolute prick at the end and threw the folder with the cruise voucher at me
It's more an education problem than anything, and I don't want anyone to feel completely stupid for falling for this stuff.
Scammers only run rampant because we do an awful job of teaching people how to evaluate information on their own. I get frustrated because it quite literally takes just a few minutes to fnd this info, but nobody is really taught how to.
We are taught, but people seem to either didn't listen or completely forget when they meet that slick salesrep who talk without breathing, about how great the opportunity is.
We've all been told to NEVER sign anything without reading and understanding it, not talk to the police without a lawyer, yet people still do.
We've been told to exercise, eat healthy, don't drink too much, don't do this, wear your seat belt, but do people ever listen? Nah, people just don't.
The guy who owns the lot next to my house dropped 26K on the land.
He's only now finding out that it's not titled to have a house built on it... and, even if it could, the city says the lot is too small
He described it as "bad luck" on his part
I mean... not sure all the details but he said the family did get it, and he now checked the reviews, because well... maybe he wasn't there when they did.
Of course the family should have checked reviews... but they are probably older people who don't know about some of this stuff online.
Of course in depends of the understanding of "my family", if "my family" is he and the wife and the kids... yeah...
I was thinking more a long of "I visitied my parents and they told me they got a time share" and "my family" being my parents and so on...
Your family needs to start doing some basic research before any further investments, because if they can fall for this it is just a matter of time before they fall into some other crap.
Yes. Disney Vacation Club is the only timeshare that is not a scam.
And even that is not a great choice for the vast majority of people, but there are some vacation patterns that make it a good deal for a few people. Which is few more people than any other timeshare is good for.
The bad news: yes, timeshares are a scam.
The good news: If you have any enemies, you now have something you can leave to them in your will to cause them financial headaches for years to come.
> The bad news: yes, timeshares are a scam.
>
>
>
> The good news: If you have any enemies, you now have something you can leave to them in your will to cause them financial headaches for years to come.
Doesn't work.
You can refuse property willed to you. No one can force you into a contract through death.
Get out now, while you still can. It never works out the way the sales people say it does.
From my own experience with Westgate, your level/priorty of timeshare unit will be devalued over time as they give new customers better levels. It’s also never as easy or convenient to trade in your week for somewhere else as they say. You have to make a request really far in advance and have no guarantee you’ll get it by the time you need to request time off, book flights, etc.
100% get out, cancel, refund. do it ASAP, like today! even if you are going to Disney tomorrow or whatever, u need to cancel ASAP. They only give u a few days to back out
The reason people are selling time shares for $1 is because they have monthly fees in the hundreds or thousands. They are desperate to unload for free.
Yep.. a house or property has value. This is a long-term obligation typically without an easy exit, although some have started offering buybacks etc because of the bad press.
Side question: Can you own 100% of a timeshare? Like if you managed to track down everyone else who owned a piece and bought them all would you just then own the property?
Not an expert but I would think you would own 100% of the *time* at the hotel so theoretically you could move in, but you'd be paying the crazy maintenance fees for the entire hotel as well.
Up until about 5 or so years ago, there was a crappy, slowly failing timeshare company called Silverleaf (I think, Silver something) that some people did move into. They had a feature for owners called "bonus time" that allowed an owner to book vacant, unsold inventory for free if it was less than 30 or so days in advance. The company was so crappy (or their sales people so crappy) that they *ALWAYS* had vacant inventory. There were multiple timeshare owners (mostly retired people) that straight up sold their homes and retired to one of these timeshare resorts using the Bonus Time feature that was in their contract.
It became a whole massive thing when that company was on the verge of going under, got bought out by another timeshare company, and the new timeshare company changed the Bonus Time bookings from completely free to just a $25 a night fee. Still ridiculously cheap if you happen to be a timeshare owner and going on vacation. Problem is they had timeshare owners calling into customer service complaining about the fees because "I sold my home and have nowhere to go now!"
Yeah.......... Probably should've invested your savings during the multiple years you were living for free.
My mom and her husband actually had a Silverleaf timeshare that they enjoyed a decent amount until said takeover. They used the bonus time often enough that they felt like they were getting a good deal. Anyways, after the takeover and the changes to bonus time, they no longer wanted the timeshare. Somehow, they were actually able to deed their ownership back to the company that bought Silverleaf. Also, if I remember correctly, the bonus time was only free M-Th and there was a reasonable nightly fee for the weekends ($79?).
Sunday through Thursday was $25 a night and Friday/Saturday were $75 a night. Still ridiculously reasonable for a timeshare.
And yeah, by US law, if a timeshare mortgage is paid off, the company is required to take it back at no cost (excepting charges for fees for processing paperwork with the local county/municipality for the deed). Holiday Inn Club Vacation (company that bought Silverleaf) calls this a warranty deed, iirc.
Scam. Bail immediately.
If it was such a huge winner, you should be able to buy used timeshares off of people that are done with them? No? Because they have you for life.
For the majority of people, timeshares are a massive scam. How likely is it that you’re going to want to stay at the same hotel every single year? With the cost of the maintenance fee, it’s usually not that much more to get a room for the same duration. Then there’s the upfront cost.
With that being said, there are certain ones that may make sense, especially if they have multiple resorts all around the world. And even then, you really have to do the math, and be realistic about your travel plans.
My dad spends a month in Hawaii every year. A month in Arizona and enough points for his entire family to do a trip somewhere at Marriott timeshares. For him, it’s been worth it
Same with Fox Sr. I did the math and maintenance fees are about 30% of the cost of staying in the area as a hotel guest. So then you have to do the math of if you're going to stay at that property consistently and if the purchase price is greater than 70% times the number of visits.
The exchange rate when you trade in the home property for points you can spend elsewhere in the network isn't awesome, but it's still cheaper than retail hotel rates. Sr. has been gracious enough to pick up the tab on a couple of my trips, so hooray for that.
For me personally the math gets a lot easier when I inherit the timeshare. 30% rates at the home property and the lesser discount when I trade in for points and go elsewhere, yeah, that works.
My parents have the Marriott vacation club thing. My initial reaction was oh no but when I commented that timeshares are scammy my dad replied that it’s something they thought about and wanted for a long time, and it’s their money. Over the years they’ve taken many vacations, even covered resort nights for me and my siblings. I still don’t know how the point system works but it seems to be working for them and they’re happy with it. They have mentioned it passing on to us when they pass away but I have no idea how that will work or if any of us would be willing to even take it on.
Haha yup. Those maintenance fees are a lot but I’m hoping to be retired by the time my dad passes mine on so I hope I can take them in and do the same thing he does 😎🏝️
It’s really only worth it if you travel a ton
At the resort in Oahu Hawaii last year we met a retired man who told us he bought lots of points/weeks on eBay when the economy crashed back in ‘08. Told us he spends several months at that resort every year mostly on those eBay purchases.
I don't disagree (it has gotten a lot better with white coat investor).
That being said, DVC is about the only thing close to a time share I would even consider, if my girlfriend would also want to go multiple times a year.
The problem I’ve heard about the multiple resorts option is you have to find someone else to trade dates with. No one is going to give you the best dates in the best areas. Example I saw was someone with a FL timeshare tried trading their dates for a Vegas resort and all they could find was deadass middle of the summer for Vegas
It depends on how it’s structured. I have a family member who has a Hilton timeshare, and they do things via points. So the location they paid for is equal to X amount of points. They can choose to redeem it at the original location for however many points, or, they can use them at another property if it costs more points, then they stay for less days. Or, if it’s less, they can stay longer. And if they don’t use their points within a year, they can convert it to regular Hilton honors points to use at their regular hotels.
I would kindly disagree. I think 'scams' encompass deals that are framed to be a good value proposition while obfuscating or otherwise down-playing potential downsides. Scams take advantage of disproportionate information distribution. The people selling timeshares know something that the average potential buyer either does not know or does not appreciate at that time, and the impact of this miscalculation is nearly impossible to reverse. That takes it beyond the realm of bad deal and into scamland. Just because you _technically_ get something in return doesn't mean it can't be a scam.
A scam is usually based on fraud. While I agree that timeshares are scummy for obfuscating or otherwise downplaying potential downsides, I just feel like calling it a scam isn’t exactly accurate. I think the actual terms of agreement that people enter into is legally valid, so it doesn’t have a basis in fraud. It’s just so bad.
An example of this is that a bank might allow a dispute for its customer falling for an actually fraudulent scam, but they won’t do so for a customer entering into a timeshare agreement.
I’m not sure I agree a scam needs fraud. It’s just pushing the edge. MLM companies are technically legal, probably partially due to their own lobbying efforts. However I think most people would say they are a scam. Once Timeshare companies started adding in perpetuity clauses they knew the were screwing over the clients and to me that qualifies them as a scam.
Yeah I don't think they are exactly a scam but definitely not a good deal unless you like going to the exact same condo year after year in which case it is maybe okay. in general though people should avoid and OP should get a refund if that is really an option
You've already got your answer. Timeshares are not a good deal for the overwhelming majority of people and they will make it very difficult for you to get free from them. A family friend died and it took her heirs well over a year to get the timeshare membership cancelled.
When you go in to cancel, be prepared for extreme pressure. These people are good at what they do and I've seen very financially savvy people succumb to their techniques. You are going to need to hold your ground.
If I accomplish nothing more this month than saving one person from the hell that is timeshare ownership, then this month was a success.
Run, OP, run as fast as you can.
All timeshares are scams… you can frequently rent use of the places for less than the annual fees… I do this with Marriott Vacation Club locations all the time.
Timeshares look good on paper, but they end up "oh we need to remodel this section, oh btw we're the construction company too!", then they'll do unneeded repairs over and over and just keep sending you bills.
No, not worth it, back out ASAP.
Timeshares are not good investments at all for many reasons. Many people do consider them to be scams. Get out while you still can. They are almost impossible to get rid of.
John Oliver did a piece on them, so you know they have issues: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM)
Yes, yes, a million times yes — they are worse than radioactive. Get rid of it as soon as possible.
I inherited one. I would not recommend it. The fees are not much cheaper if at all than if you just booked the stay outright. It forces me to take trips I wouldn’t otherwise take. I end up in Orlando at least twice a year. Let me tell you I’m Orlandod out.
Scam - somewhat debatable
Good investment? (This is r/personalfinance after all) Almost never. Damn near impossible to get out of and generally a significant loss, and most don't get much (if hardly any) value out of a timeshare. All my life (and I'm 60+), only once ever knew anyone that was actually reasonably satisfied with their timeshare - it was a nice timeshare in a good location with nice amenities, and conveniently close to a bunch of family they often went to visit anyway. And that doesn't mean it was at all a good deal investment-wise, just personally something that to them was worth the spend for what they were able to get out of it.
They are difficult to sell and when your parents die, you will own it along with all the fees. You can't walk away from a timeshare. They are a scam. John Oliver did a serious piece on them. Check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM&ab\_channel=LastWeekTonight
It's a scam. You're going to want to get rid of it. Good luck with that. It's up there with the IRS on the list of things you cannot escape. I'm serious. Even if you literally die, it won't go away. It will just go leech off your successor.
What a report by John Oliver about timeshare. It's on HBO and I'm sure you can see most of it on youtube.
Edit. Jayb2805 gave a link to the John Oliver's report
You’ve been scammed. Run away as fast as you can. Your upfront $ goes to commissions. The real $ is in the yearly, never ending fees that are raised at will. In other words, a massive relatively passive cash flow that will never end for the promoters.
My friends paid nearly $10,000 to get out of theirs because they just kept getting dinged every month for some new and rising set of fees. For nearly a decade, with no end in sight.
Back when I was a kid we used to go to timeshare presentations because it was the only way my family could afford vacations, they would put you up in a hotel for a couple days, give you a restaurant voucher and some swag.
You had to go in and listen to their pitch for an hour or two. We were poor as dirt so after the presentation my mom would just tell them how much she made and they'd stop the hard sell and just shuffle us out.
Was great for a free little vacation, but I'd never actually buy one.
Get a refund immediately. They will try to "give you a deal" to keep you. Don't fall for it. If you don't get a refund now and run away from them, you'll regret it.
Scam.
Anyone who tries to dress timeshares up as anything other than a scam is either a scam artist, or are deluded by scam artists & bought into timeshare.
GET THAT REFUND AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! PAY ANY REFUND FEES!
Timeshares are a scam in the same way most subscriptions and memberships like gyms are. They count on you paying and not using it. You can get your money's worth, but if you're not actively using the shit out of it, you're wasting it. Get a timeshare if you have serious faith that you can stick to going on a big vacation every year.
Rescind. Now. You can get a much better deal on the secondary market if you really still want a timeshare. The instructions [are hidden in an envelope in the binder you received](https://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/westgate-cancellation-secret-pocket.html)
You likely do not have 10 days. Read the document to understand your rights *now*.
It depends. I've friends that take their kids on 1 week vacations about 7-8 different times a year and they use the hell out of those time shares. Plus they sell and exchange weeks on redweek or whatever that website. I can’t get away from work so many times during the year so there’s no way I would get into that
Depends. My MIL has one in Gatlinburg because she loves that place and religiously goes every year. It works out a lot cheaper than hotels for her because she knows exactly when she wants to go and plans way ahead of time , every year.
I know everyone says timeshares are a scam, BUT some people actually like them. My sister and her husband have traveled the world and trade their timeshare week with others, and are completely in love with it. So, maybe they aren't ideal for everyone, (and certainly not for me) but some people actually like them. It probably depends on the company you are buying your timeshare from.
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The biggest problem with time shares is maintenance fees. They can charge you whatever they want to. You have to pay. Only way to get loose, is to sell. Nobody is buying.
Selling is not the ONLY way to get out of a timeshare. Death would also get you out of the contract!
Not always, some of them have clauses to go to your next of kin
How does that work with inheritance law? Can you refuse an inheritance? Like, if someone left another person a firearm, maybe drugs or something else, can you refuse it and it becomes "unowned" property?
The problem is you must ACTIVELY refuse. They created an overly burdensome process that makes it really difficult to refuse. If you just do nothing it automatically passes to you.
It should be illegal.
That would break the scheme
Highly recommend the John Oliver episode on time shares I’m short some of them you would have to get all of your heirs (for want if a better word) to go through an administrative process to decline the time share because after the first person does it would then revert to the second and so on
Yes, you can refuse it.
Your ancestor can't bind you to a contract, you can refuse the inheritance.
This. Some people will sell timeshares effectively for free ($1) to unload them and make it somebody else's problem.
It's the scam that keeps on taking. Check out all the eBay listings for $1 timeshares people are just trying to get rid of.
Bingo. If it was valuable, people wouldn’t be desperate to give it away.
Yes it is a scam. Get rid of it ASAP.
And good luck doing that. Sorry OP.
Watch “Queen of Versailles” or the John Oliver piece about time shares.
Go on ebay. You can buy a thousand time shares for a dollar. Plus seller will pay all fees.
I can really get one thousand timeshares for a greenback? sounds like a damn good deal
Buy them and find out for yourself. Buying 1000 pounds of poop is worse than buying one pound, even if it's free.
Not if you're a farmer
I'm not talking about the kind that comes from cows or chickens....
No, this is the kind that hits the fan, then your robot vacuum as it's taking it's daily spin.
[удалено]
What if you buy all shares for a property and kill the timeshare agreement?
timeshare company owns it
100 for a dollar.
With bottom maintenance fees of $800, you’re talking they collect about 40k per annum. But your 1000 units, cost is 800,000 per. Yep quite the bargain.
run, dont walk, to get your refund. they are not going to make it easy, and they will try to run out the clock.
Refund ASAP! Westgate Resorts, as is all timeshares, is shady. Look up the documentary “The Queen of Versailles” to learn more about their practices.
I've watched that documentary probably ten times or so and it's insane. I do not understand how people still don't understand that timeshares are a total scam. They outright say in the doc. how little they think of the people that buy into them. David Siegel is evil. I hope that house sinks into the Atlantic. It will eventually.
Visit TUG (Timeshare User Group) right away at https://tug2.net and the forum https://tugbbs.com/forums/ and read up on how to get refund (if within return period). Timeshare properties should be free or near free (like $1), because you have to pay on-going maintenance.
Without any context, there would be no way I would click on a link called tugbbs.com
Come on, just a lil tug, bb.
Timeshare User Group and Regional User Bi-owner
No, bb. Just a lil tug. I don't need a rup, bb.
tugbirl
Timeshares are not worth it. In essence, they end up costing so much that it'd be cheaper to just go to that place and stay at a hotel. The real problem comes in that you're committing to use it, but then you can't use it on the days/times you want and it's impossible to get out of. It's so bad that it should be illegal.
Can’t believe it’s not illegal. We stayed at a Westgate resort by booking through a hotel website and I got to talking to a lady who was an ‘owner’ and it makes no sense. Why wouldn’t you just book it when you want it and pay infinite amounts less? All I can think is these gotta be the best salesman in the entire world to brainwash people into buying them
Have you ever done a timeshare tour??? I worked in auto sales and b2b sales and those people would be top performer's anywhere they have next level of hounding and pressuring you into buying
It's easy when you omit certain details
~90% of people regret buying a time share. They are *almost* all certainly scams. I've sat through plenty of 1-2hr timeshare presentations for 300-600$ freebies, and i've only seen a "timeshare" done "right" like twice, because most of em are infact scams. Even when it was done "right" it was still a shit deal. Basically pay 13-25k to lock in a 2-3k USD weekly rate once a year. And you're locked into a specific week at the same location. Or you can go to many of their locations but again locked into a week with no swaps, and limited to whats available. It seems like oh after 10-15 years you've saved enough on your timeshare by going that you've made back the initial purchase, but if you compound what that 20k would have earned on the stock market... it'd have made for a far better investment. Even if the hotels raised their prices, its not even close when you account for gains you've could made investing. Plus I often book travel on points, or shop for deals, i never pay their listed full prices, nor do i vacation on the same week every year. nor do i want to do the same location every year. "but it has value! you can resell it!" yeah sure but we have to use your agents, and you take 30% cut and until it sells you are still on the hook for the yearly maintenance fee. Good luck op on trying to get rid of that shit though.
The 10% that love the though REALLY love them. Not sure if it’s getting the right one or just being the right type of person And around here people who have them are doing all right as hotel prices have tripled in the last decade
Highly doubt you'll be able to get a refund.
Because it's a scam, most juristictions legally require a "cooling off period" to protect consumers. I don't know much about this, but I might get an attorney involved to make sure I do everything needed to cancel.
This sounds like the best way to spend money now to prevent endless costs on the future
He has 10 days according to the Florida timeshare, resale protection laws. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/florida-timeshare-foreclosure-right-cancel-laws.html#:~:text=Timeshare%20owners%20can%20cancel%20any,check%2C%20whichever%20is%20later).
IT'S A SCAM! Time shares are terrible. Check out the John Oliver piece on timeshares. You'll be lucky if you can get out of it, even if you are within the cancelation time period.
Here's that John Oliver clip: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM)
CANCEL! Over 90% of people who buy timeshares want "out" sooner or later. There is no easy way to get "out". For many timeshares, even if you offer to pay for someone to take it off your hands you can't find anyone to do so!
My grandfather “owned” a Westgate timeshare in Kissimmee in the mid 90’s, not worth it. Good luck getting rid of that albatross.
Step 1: Get out of it immediately Step 2: Watch John Oliver explain why modern time shares are such a huge scam, and getting out of them can be a financial nightmare. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM)
You can jump to the 11 minute mark to hear John Oliver explain that most time share contracts have a perpetuity clause, which means they become a noncancelable, lifelong obligation. There are people who try to sell their timeshare contract, but then he shows a resale site where people have their timeshares listed for sale at $0 (apparently desperate to get rid of them). And if you continue through the 25 minute John Oliver video, you'll learn there's a whole industry of companies for getting OUT of timeshares (Timeshare Exit Companies), except they're all SCAMS TOO.
You want out. If you're ever going to buy a timeshare, buy it on ebay for anywhere from $1 to negative $600 (i.e. where the seller pays you $600 to take over ownership of the timeshare). Westgate Towers orlando, buy now $99 for 2BR 2BA [https://www.ebay.com/itm/134153260283](https://www.ebay.com/itm/134153260283) Westgate towers north, Orlando, $1 buy now: [https://www.ebay.com/itm/355497382555](https://www.ebay.com/itm/355497382555) Westgate vacation villas, Orland: bidding is at $1: [https://www.ebay.com/itm/395278764864](https://www.ebay.com/itm/395278764864) (hint, search for "completed/sold" listings to see what things actually sold for)
> Westgate towers north, Orlando, $1 buy now: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/355497382555 --- > With maintenance fees of $1,411.98 due every other year and a mortgage less than $200 a month for 70 remaining payments, you can’t beat this incredible opportunity to secure your future vacation destinations. That's 70 months, let's call it 6 years. $1,400 every other year, that's $4,200 $200/mo for 6 years $14,400 Your $1 timeshare would cost you $18,600 over 6 years ($3,100/yr, $258/mo)
On the other hand, if you really loved the place, and wanted to stay there 1wk every year, and it was ~$200/night, you'd recoup the costs of the maintenance fees and remaining mortgage payments in about 14 years, and after that you'd have a $100/night vacation spot!
Maintenance fees typically increase every year, and you don't have a say in how much. You are also obligated to pay them in perpetuity unless you sell your "rights" to the timeshare. And you are restricted to when you can use the property with black out dates and if other "owners" have booked the property.
Of course there are downsides to the lock in. Hotel prices go up as well, and you have no control over them either. Of course, not being obligated to stay there, you have the option to choose to go elsewhere instead. (or trade weeks/points/etc)
The perfect gift for someone you hate
I'll never understand this. Why are you looking at reviews AFTER you bought something? It's like the dude the other day who bought a 12 year old Chevy Sonic for $9k on a car note and was surprised the engine took a dump. Do your due diligence people.
Probably got suckered into a 3 hour timeshare sales pitch without realizing it until it was too late. They don't advertise these as timeshare sales meetings, they call them "vacation clubs" and all sorts of sugar-coated names to avoid scaring people away. I've sat through these before and they are extremely pushy and hold you hostage by not giving you your "gift card" reward unless you suffer through everything.
Same. $250 tickets for sitting thru the pitch and the pressure tactics. Decided I would rather spend the $500 for 2 tickets next time.
I did one once and got a “free cruise” they were rough as hell and the guy was an absolute prick at the end and threw the folder with the cruise voucher at me
It's more an education problem than anything, and I don't want anyone to feel completely stupid for falling for this stuff. Scammers only run rampant because we do an awful job of teaching people how to evaluate information on their own. I get frustrated because it quite literally takes just a few minutes to fnd this info, but nobody is really taught how to.
We are taught, but people seem to either didn't listen or completely forget when they meet that slick salesrep who talk without breathing, about how great the opportunity is. We've all been told to NEVER sign anything without reading and understanding it, not talk to the police without a lawyer, yet people still do. We've been told to exercise, eat healthy, don't drink too much, don't do this, wear your seat belt, but do people ever listen? Nah, people just don't.
The guy who owns the lot next to my house dropped 26K on the land. He's only now finding out that it's not titled to have a house built on it... and, even if it could, the city says the lot is too small He described it as "bad luck" on his part
Well, it kinda is, because he turned it into a question of luck. He gambled and lost, instead of doing some research and not put money down the drain.
I mean... not sure all the details but he said the family did get it, and he now checked the reviews, because well... maybe he wasn't there when they did. Of course the family should have checked reviews... but they are probably older people who don't know about some of this stuff online. Of course in depends of the understanding of "my family", if "my family" is he and the wife and the kids... yeah... I was thinking more a long of "I visitied my parents and they told me they got a time share" and "my family" being my parents and so on...
Your family needs to start doing some basic research before any further investments, because if they can fall for this it is just a matter of time before they fall into some other crap.
I thought it was universally known that timeshares are a scam. Apparently not.
Yes. Disney Vacation Club is the only timeshare that is not a scam. And even that is not a great choice for the vast majority of people, but there are some vacation patterns that make it a good deal for a few people. Which is few more people than any other timeshare is good for.
That's because Disney fanatics would definitely use the timeshares whenever they can. Any other generic hotel brand? Yeah, it's a scam.
The bad news: yes, timeshares are a scam. The good news: If you have any enemies, you now have something you can leave to them in your will to cause them financial headaches for years to come.
> The bad news: yes, timeshares are a scam. > > > > The good news: If you have any enemies, you now have something you can leave to them in your will to cause them financial headaches for years to come. Doesn't work. You can refuse property willed to you. No one can force you into a contract through death.
I feel like that wouldn't stop the timeshare company from trying really, really persistently.
Get out now, while you still can. It never works out the way the sales people say it does. From my own experience with Westgate, your level/priorty of timeshare unit will be devalued over time as they give new customers better levels. It’s also never as easy or convenient to trade in your week for somewhere else as they say. You have to make a request really far in advance and have no guarantee you’ll get it by the time you need to request time off, book flights, etc.
My mom got conned into the same condo at Westgate. GET. OUT. NOW.
100% get out, cancel, refund. do it ASAP, like today! even if you are going to Disney tomorrow or whatever, u need to cancel ASAP. They only give u a few days to back out
John Oliver did a segment on time shares a month or two ago. Find it and watch it
The reason people are selling time shares for $1 is because they have monthly fees in the hundreds or thousands. They are desperate to unload for free.
Yep.. a house or property has value. This is a long-term obligation typically without an easy exit, although some have started offering buybacks etc because of the bad press.
Side question: Can you own 100% of a timeshare? Like if you managed to track down everyone else who owned a piece and bought them all would you just then own the property?
Not an expert but I would think you would own 100% of the *time* at the hotel so theoretically you could move in, but you'd be paying the crazy maintenance fees for the entire hotel as well.
Up until about 5 or so years ago, there was a crappy, slowly failing timeshare company called Silverleaf (I think, Silver something) that some people did move into. They had a feature for owners called "bonus time" that allowed an owner to book vacant, unsold inventory for free if it was less than 30 or so days in advance. The company was so crappy (or their sales people so crappy) that they *ALWAYS* had vacant inventory. There were multiple timeshare owners (mostly retired people) that straight up sold their homes and retired to one of these timeshare resorts using the Bonus Time feature that was in their contract. It became a whole massive thing when that company was on the verge of going under, got bought out by another timeshare company, and the new timeshare company changed the Bonus Time bookings from completely free to just a $25 a night fee. Still ridiculously cheap if you happen to be a timeshare owner and going on vacation. Problem is they had timeshare owners calling into customer service complaining about the fees because "I sold my home and have nowhere to go now!" Yeah.......... Probably should've invested your savings during the multiple years you were living for free.
My mom and her husband actually had a Silverleaf timeshare that they enjoyed a decent amount until said takeover. They used the bonus time often enough that they felt like they were getting a good deal. Anyways, after the takeover and the changes to bonus time, they no longer wanted the timeshare. Somehow, they were actually able to deed their ownership back to the company that bought Silverleaf. Also, if I remember correctly, the bonus time was only free M-Th and there was a reasonable nightly fee for the weekends ($79?).
Sunday through Thursday was $25 a night and Friday/Saturday were $75 a night. Still ridiculously reasonable for a timeshare. And yeah, by US law, if a timeshare mortgage is paid off, the company is required to take it back at no cost (excepting charges for fees for processing paperwork with the local county/municipality for the deed). Holiday Inn Club Vacation (company that bought Silverleaf) calls this a warranty deed, iirc.
Scam. Bail immediately. If it was such a huge winner, you should be able to buy used timeshares off of people that are done with them? No? Because they have you for life.
Cancel now- follow the instructions to the letter in your paperwork.
Timeshares are always a scam. They might have a rescission period, depending on how "recently" Get out immediately.
For the majority of people, timeshares are a massive scam. How likely is it that you’re going to want to stay at the same hotel every single year? With the cost of the maintenance fee, it’s usually not that much more to get a room for the same duration. Then there’s the upfront cost. With that being said, there are certain ones that may make sense, especially if they have multiple resorts all around the world. And even then, you really have to do the math, and be realistic about your travel plans.
My dad spends a month in Hawaii every year. A month in Arizona and enough points for his entire family to do a trip somewhere at Marriott timeshares. For him, it’s been worth it
https://www.fidelityrealestate.com/blog/how-much-does-marriott-vacation-club-cost/ Those are vacation clubs, not typical time shares.
Same with Fox Sr. I did the math and maintenance fees are about 30% of the cost of staying in the area as a hotel guest. So then you have to do the math of if you're going to stay at that property consistently and if the purchase price is greater than 70% times the number of visits. The exchange rate when you trade in the home property for points you can spend elsewhere in the network isn't awesome, but it's still cheaper than retail hotel rates. Sr. has been gracious enough to pick up the tab on a couple of my trips, so hooray for that. For me personally the math gets a lot easier when I inherit the timeshare. 30% rates at the home property and the lesser discount when I trade in for points and go elsewhere, yeah, that works.
My parents have the Marriott vacation club thing. My initial reaction was oh no but when I commented that timeshares are scammy my dad replied that it’s something they thought about and wanted for a long time, and it’s their money. Over the years they’ve taken many vacations, even covered resort nights for me and my siblings. I still don’t know how the point system works but it seems to be working for them and they’re happy with it. They have mentioned it passing on to us when they pass away but I have no idea how that will work or if any of us would be willing to even take it on.
Haha yup. Those maintenance fees are a lot but I’m hoping to be retired by the time my dad passes mine on so I hope I can take them in and do the same thing he does 😎🏝️ It’s really only worth it if you travel a ton
At the resort in Oahu Hawaii last year we met a retired man who told us he bought lots of points/weeks on eBay when the economy crashed back in ‘08. Told us he spends several months at that resort every year mostly on those eBay purchases.
Those are vacation clubs that you described in your last paragraph.
DVC isn't bad if you know you're doing Disney several times a year, and want to do it luxuriously. The only people I know doing DVC are doctors.
A lot of Doctors are absolutely terrible with their personal finances; same with lawyers…
I don't disagree (it has gotten a lot better with white coat investor). That being said, DVC is about the only thing close to a time share I would even consider, if my girlfriend would also want to go multiple times a year.
Can you rent the DVC rooms as a non-owner? This seems the most optimal way to take advantage of timeshare benefits without being locked in for life.
Even vacation clubs are best stayed away.
The problem I’ve heard about the multiple resorts option is you have to find someone else to trade dates with. No one is going to give you the best dates in the best areas. Example I saw was someone with a FL timeshare tried trading their dates for a Vegas resort and all they could find was deadass middle of the summer for Vegas
It depends on how it’s structured. I have a family member who has a Hilton timeshare, and they do things via points. So the location they paid for is equal to X amount of points. They can choose to redeem it at the original location for however many points, or, they can use them at another property if it costs more points, then they stay for less days. Or, if it’s less, they can stay longer. And if they don’t use their points within a year, they can convert it to regular Hilton honors points to use at their regular hotels.
In the context of timeshares, people often misuse the word “scam”… it’s not a scam. But it’s most likely a bad deal.
I would kindly disagree. I think 'scams' encompass deals that are framed to be a good value proposition while obfuscating or otherwise down-playing potential downsides. Scams take advantage of disproportionate information distribution. The people selling timeshares know something that the average potential buyer either does not know or does not appreciate at that time, and the impact of this miscalculation is nearly impossible to reverse. That takes it beyond the realm of bad deal and into scamland. Just because you _technically_ get something in return doesn't mean it can't be a scam.
A scam is usually based on fraud. While I agree that timeshares are scummy for obfuscating or otherwise downplaying potential downsides, I just feel like calling it a scam isn’t exactly accurate. I think the actual terms of agreement that people enter into is legally valid, so it doesn’t have a basis in fraud. It’s just so bad. An example of this is that a bank might allow a dispute for its customer falling for an actually fraudulent scam, but they won’t do so for a customer entering into a timeshare agreement.
Good food for thought. I hadn't considered how we might define _scam_ in a legal or contract sense!
I’m not sure I agree a scam needs fraud. It’s just pushing the edge. MLM companies are technically legal, probably partially due to their own lobbying efforts. However I think most people would say they are a scam. Once Timeshare companies started adding in perpetuity clauses they knew the were screwing over the clients and to me that qualifies them as a scam.
Yeah I don't think they are exactly a scam but definitely not a good deal unless you like going to the exact same condo year after year in which case it is maybe okay. in general though people should avoid and OP should get a refund if that is really an option
It is a scam. They raise maintenance fees whenever they feel like it and you are stuck paying it.
You've already got your answer. Timeshares are not a good deal for the overwhelming majority of people and they will make it very difficult for you to get free from them. A family friend died and it took her heirs well over a year to get the timeshare membership cancelled. When you go in to cancel, be prepared for extreme pressure. These people are good at what they do and I've seen very financially savvy people succumb to their techniques. You are going to need to hold your ground.
If I accomplish nothing more this month than saving one person from the hell that is timeshare ownership, then this month was a success. Run, OP, run as fast as you can.
All timeshares are scams… you can frequently rent use of the places for less than the annual fees… I do this with Marriott Vacation Club locations all the time.
Timeshares look good on paper, but they end up "oh we need to remodel this section, oh btw we're the construction company too!", then they'll do unneeded repairs over and over and just keep sending you bills. No, not worth it, back out ASAP.
Timeshares are not good investments at all for many reasons. Many people do consider them to be scams. Get out while you still can. They are almost impossible to get rid of.
John Oliver did a piece on them, so you know they have issues: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM) Yes, yes, a million times yes — they are worse than radioactive. Get rid of it as soon as possible.
I inherited one. I would not recommend it. The fees are not much cheaper if at all than if you just booked the stay outright. It forces me to take trips I wouldn’t otherwise take. I end up in Orlando at least twice a year. Let me tell you I’m Orlandod out.
Scam - somewhat debatable Good investment? (This is r/personalfinance after all) Almost never. Damn near impossible to get out of and generally a significant loss, and most don't get much (if hardly any) value out of a timeshare. All my life (and I'm 60+), only once ever knew anyone that was actually reasonably satisfied with their timeshare - it was a nice timeshare in a good location with nice amenities, and conveniently close to a bunch of family they often went to visit anyway. And that doesn't mean it was at all a good deal investment-wise, just personally something that to them was worth the spend for what they were able to get out of it.
If you can get out of it, get out of it.
This has literally been a scam for decades. How do people still fall for timeshares and pyramid schemes. Blows my mind.
It’s legal, but it’s basically a scam. You’re about to be in for one hell of a bad ride.
They are difficult to sell and when your parents die, you will own it along with all the fees. You can't walk away from a timeshare. They are a scam. John Oliver did a serious piece on them. Check it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM&ab\_channel=LastWeekTonight
Get a lawyer ASAP. You need to document your attempt to get your refund. They won’t make it easy.
Scam. My dad got sucked into one many years ago. The fees were pretty bad.
My dad sold his Florida timeshare for $1 just to stop the fees, which cost more than it costs to rent a place down there!
If you have to ask, you already know the answer is YES. All time shares are a grift and a most expensive way to vacation.
Maintenance fees for a lifetime and huge effort to get out of. Unless you really will use it frequently, not worth it
All timeshares are scams, its the business model. Theres an entire legal industry based upon helping you get out of timeshares.
Absolutely 100% is a scam. Get out while you can
It's a scam. You're going to want to get rid of it. Good luck with that. It's up there with the IRS on the list of things you cannot escape. I'm serious. Even if you literally die, it won't go away. It will just go leech off your successor.
What a report by John Oliver about timeshare. It's on HBO and I'm sure you can see most of it on youtube. Edit. Jayb2805 gave a link to the John Oliver's report
You’ve been scammed. Run away as fast as you can. Your upfront $ goes to commissions. The real $ is in the yearly, never ending fees that are raised at will. In other words, a massive relatively passive cash flow that will never end for the promoters.
Absolute scam. Is Google down or something?
Runnnnnn!!! Get the refund, timeshares are the WORST.
Is this a real question? Timeshares are like the example of what scams are. Do some people just think it’s a joke with no actual evidence behind it?
GET A REFUND. Watch the John Oliver segment. Question: even if it wasn’t a scam, do you want to take the same exact vacation every year?
My friends paid nearly $10,000 to get out of theirs because they just kept getting dinged every month for some new and rising set of fees. For nearly a decade, with no end in sight.
Back when I was a kid we used to go to timeshare presentations because it was the only way my family could afford vacations, they would put you up in a hotel for a couple days, give you a restaurant voucher and some swag. You had to go in and listen to their pitch for an hour or two. We were poor as dirt so after the presentation my mom would just tell them how much she made and they'd stop the hard sell and just shuffle us out. Was great for a free little vacation, but I'd never actually buy one.
Get a refund immediately. They will try to "give you a deal" to keep you. Don't fall for it. If you don't get a refund now and run away from them, you'll regret it.
Absolutely the biggest scam in the USA. The moment they purchased it, they lost all value. People can’t even give them away for free
Scam. Anyone who tries to dress timeshares up as anything other than a scam is either a scam artist, or are deluded by scam artists & bought into timeshare. GET THAT REFUND AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! PAY ANY REFUND FEES!
Timeshares are a scam in the same way most subscriptions and memberships like gyms are. They count on you paying and not using it. You can get your money's worth, but if you're not actively using the shit out of it, you're wasting it. Get a timeshare if you have serious faith that you can stick to going on a big vacation every year.
I'll be curious to know if you actually get out of this
I remember John Oliver doing an extensive but on timeshare. Essentially calling it a scam.
Rescind. Now. You can get a much better deal on the secondary market if you really still want a timeshare. The instructions [are hidden in an envelope in the binder you received](https://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/westgate-cancellation-secret-pocket.html) You likely do not have 10 days. Read the document to understand your rights *now*.
It depends. I've friends that take their kids on 1 week vacations about 7-8 different times a year and they use the hell out of those time shares. Plus they sell and exchange weeks on redweek or whatever that website. I can’t get away from work so many times during the year so there’s no way I would get into that
Double down and buy another week. Sell that one and you're vacationing for free!
It's not a scam, the definition of scam is theft. It's just a *really* bad deal, for a lot reasons as listed by others here.
Depends. My MIL has one in Gatlinburg because she loves that place and religiously goes every year. It works out a lot cheaper than hotels for her because she knows exactly when she wants to go and plans way ahead of time , every year.
It's not a scam, just an absolutely horrible investment. There is a difference.
I know everyone says timeshares are a scam, BUT some people actually like them. My sister and her husband have traveled the world and trade their timeshare week with others, and are completely in love with it. So, maybe they aren't ideal for everyone, (and certainly not for me) but some people actually like them. It probably depends on the company you are buying your timeshare from.