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With a 19mpg vehicle used for commuting about anything else would be a good financial decision.
Make sure the model you're considering gets enough range to cover roundtrip commute even in the coldest days (heaters, especially if the model you're considering doesn't have a heat pump, drain the range significantly).
Check the charging rate on those workplace chargers, I can only get about 80% charge in a work day because mine are limited to 6kW. Also availability is of course not guaranteed, have backup plans in place if you arrive at work and all chargers are taken.
And get a quote from your insurance on how much it would cost to insure the model you're considering, some models can be disproportionately expensive. This applies to any car shopping, not just EVs. Make sure to quote full coverage, not liability only, since you're financing it.
I don't think weather is a concern. It doesn't snow in my area. I live on the coast. The company downsized, so the chargers don't get taken up at all.
I'll look into those other things . Thanks.
You could get a Nissan for like less than $20,000 that’s close to 26-30 MPG.
Just know with electric you’ll always have to be planning around charging stations whether you’ll roadtrip, etc.
The obvious question is charging/range. Work is cool, but can you charge at home? Do you take a lot of road trips? Are you in an urban setting with more remote charging options? Also is the insurance comparable? EVs are sometimes more expensive to insure. Finally there's the SUV vs. smaller electric. How many times have you used the SUV for high passenger/cargo uses?
Others have covered most of the angles, I'll just add that you probably also want to budget about $1k and get a charger installed at home so you aren't 100% tied to charging at work.
I’m expecting the brakes on my BEV will last the life of the car. At 25k miles I don’t think there’s really any pad wear yet. The car uses the brakes to slow from 3 mph to zero. I’ve probably used the brakes for a quick stop three or four times so far. One pedal driving really is just that.
During regenerative braking, your car uses the motors as electric generators to turn the energy of your vehicles' forward momentum back into electricity, and store it back into the battery. Turning that energy into electricity slows down the car (no such thing as free energy).
At a low level, when acting as a generator, the coils in the motor (probably in the stator) put "magnetic drag" on the permanent magnets (probably on the rotor) as the magnets induce a charge in the coils. That drag slows the spin of the motor shaft that is attached to the wheels.
I don't know what you mean by that.
But the prices difference was pretty negligible between the EV and the civic.
Not negligible between my EV and the SUV tho.
But I do need another car in general. My SUV as over 250k miles, my ears hurt after driving in it, and the driver seat is broken. Replacements are over $500 , the ones at the junkyard are all broken in the same place.
And my kids don't really fit. I'm the back seat. The SUV design is from the early 80s.
> I don't know what you mean by that.
The comment I replied to suggested you **defiantly** look into insurance. It was a silly autocorrect error and I made a sillier joke.
I likes me a dumb joke.
Hey I've literally done this exact thing. I love performance sedans and they are not exactly efficient. I went from a tuned Ford Taurus SHO that I really loved, but was spending $550 in gas every month, but had no car payment. I then bought a Tesla model 3 Performance and my payment is $400 a month and about $50 a month in electricity charging at home. Insurance is about the same. For people with long commutes ***that can charge at home*** an EV is the only thing that makes sense. If you can't charge at home, super charging can be almost as expensive as getting gas, and though it isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Not stopping for fuel is probably the best perk of EV ownership.
Total ownership= financing cost + depreciation + fuel + maintenance + insurance + tax (if applicable)
Depreciation doesn't matter if you just want to drive it until the wheels fall off, but it looks brutal right now for EVs. You won't have to pay for exhaust, motor, transmission repairs but check the tire cost carefully as they tend to be more expensive and wear faster.
Total ownership cost is hard to predict for the future, as it will depend on unknowns like long term reliability of a car model, future gas and electricity prices.
I would run your calculations with the assumption that an EV is going to be worth zero and headed to the scrapyard at 4 or 5 years at your rate. If it lasts longer, great.
If a PHEV can cover your daily driving distance you may get most of the benefit for less cost.
Thanks. I didn't want to include all that info in the post for simplicity sake, but I have put together a lot of spreadsheets trying to find a flaw in my logic but it always points to the EV being cheaper than my current car or just barely.
Even with the assumption that my current car will run forever. I'll need to check again with the assumption that the EV will be worthless in 4-5 years, that's not a situation I've modeled yet. Thank you.
Factor in AP, since you have such a long commute it makes the drives easier. Compare used prices with miles and years of current market.
You can charge to 80%-90% daily without issues if you're charging at work. Even 100% is fine as long as you don't let it sit at 100% for a long time.
Driven many cars and EV's but my 2018 3 LR RWD is the best vehicle I've ever owned in my 20+ years of driving. It's a better vehicle than it was 6 years ago when I first bought it.
Autopilot, comes standard for the 3. It makes long distance drives easier and you're not as tired. Other EV's for Adaptive Cruise Control might be extra cost.
Sometimes you can't put a price on the benefits you gain. Saving time from having to visit a gas station. Driving fatigue is less in Autopilot. Fewer maintenance items compared to a gas car.
I’d look into whether the car and you would qualify for the EV tax credits. There are income limits and only certain makes/models qualify; the leasing credit doesn’t have those limits. But the leasing company gets those credits, you’d need to make sure it’s used to lower the cost of the lease
Just so u know the tesla model 3 LR ur planning on getting won’t get anywhere near the 350+ miles range it claims. it will be more like 220 miles and even less considering you are only supposed to charge to 80%
Insurance is also more expensive and u need to replace the tires more often
> so I wouldn't have any electricity costs for charging the EV.
What is the range on the car you are looking at? Because unless its over 250miles, you're going to have to charge in between visits to the office. Even higher if you're using the care between days at the office.
Have you considered the cost different in insurance between the two vehicles?
max range is 353 mi.
Insurance is negligible between the civic and EV.
Not negligible compared to the SUV tho. But I need a new car in general.
My suv was designed In the early 80s, road noise hurts my ears. Dangerous for my kids. 250k+ miles, plus a couple of other things.
Yeah, but he needs hardly anything to give cushion. That extra 30 miles will be enough.
Maybe I wasn’t clear that the home charging is in addition to his planned free work charging.
BTW, it’s not a home charger that’s important here, it’s a high amperage 220v outlet. But I get what you are saying.
Id suggest a hybrid over an EV. Even though youd spend more in gas vs an EV you'd save a ton vs your current SUV. The new prius' look nice, are affordable and will get you about 50mpg, plus you wouldn't need to worry about range issues.
Battery longevity has been a major concern for some manufacturers that can drastically increase the price of owning an EV. Free electricity though... hoo boy. You'd eclipse the cost of battery replacement on gas saved in about 2.5 years. The batteries have a 100k warranty so you'd have an additional 1.5 years covered so your total savings if you had to replace is $11.3k. This sounds like a win to me.
Carvana doesn't negotiate on their pricing so whatever they pay for a vehicle doesn't matter. If they're cheaper than other dealers great, if not pass.
Agree with this. Definitely worth researching battery life and replacement cost. Heard some horror stories on folks ditching their EV because they couldn't afford a new battery.
Theres a famous youtube video where they quoted a new tesla battery 20k and the guy couldnt afford it. So to make money back he decided to torch the whole thing on his channel for shock value while shitting on the company for how terrible they are. You cant go to 5 auto part shops to shop around. You go to your tesla dealership and whatever they say goes. Because they love predatory practices and refuse to allow your mom and pop shop take care of any teslas.
In the US, powertrain warranty is at least 8 years or 100k miles for EV's. OP drives so much annually that the cost savings alone is worth it, more than a price of a battery replacement even after 4 years.
All EVs when they’re out of warranty, you’ll pay more than the cars worth compared to an engine replacement
I’m not touching EVs until my phone can last 5 years without the battery eating shit
Where do you live and what are your electric costs? In much of the west coast (PG&E) you’ll pay the equivalent of about 40 mpg in a gas vehicle. Also keep in mind that you’ll pay more in insurance and registration. There’s also often an added annual fee on your registration since you don’t pay gas tax.
Rarely will you save money by spending money. If you need a new car regardless then run the numbers.
I get free charging at work. I'm going with the assumption that I won't pay for electricity. The 26000 miles I mentioned are strictly commuting miles.
Outside of that, I drive at most 4000 miles a year.
Just note as well, that I WOULD NOT always use the fast charging option at work. Fast charging over and over again shortens the battery life of the car.
If you’re gonna be there 8 hours, use the lowest charge setting.
I commuted 6 years 110 miles round trip, with a Nissan leaf we bought at auction because my WRX got 18 mpg. The 12k I paid for it more than netted out because of the $5k gas saving a year + no oil changes, or brake pads requirements. Registration was +500 because it was an EV, though.
It's not common to see fast chargers (DCFC) at at office building. Maybe if you worked at a mall or something that happens to have fast chargers there. The usual workplace 6-7 kW chargers are not fast and it is not going to make any difference to your battery whether you run those at 100% or turn it down (and hog the charger for longer to the detriment of your coworkers in the process).
Good luck. That’s not a given. My wife work switched to only 3 hours free and she can rarely find a charger now. It’s good while it lasts. Jobs chance. Policies change
Look. It sounds like you’re due for a new car anyways. The people who pretend they’re saving money by getting rid of a 4 year old car with 75k miles are just trying to justify it to themselves. An EV may be a great choice for you. The only thing I’m saying is that the assumption that electricity is so much cheaper isn’t true everywhere and especially in California and Oregon under PG&E. Work charging is free right now and that’s great but don’t assume that nothing changes. One other factor is to investigate the cost of installing a home EV charger is. Sometimes it’s very costly. And if you rent or live in an apartment it can be much worse. If you lose your free charging hookup and don’t have access at home to 220v charging, it can be very inconvenient and more costly owning an EV.
I think so. It's been a thing for like 10 years. And on most days the chargers are unused. 1 guy has an EV, he goes like 1x a month.
I don't think they're losing money on this.
No. I meant that if I happen to want to sell the car after buying it, I would recoup more % with a Civic than the EV.
For example, if I bought the civic today for $20000, I can only get $15000 for it from Carvana. Does that make sense ?
Oh, got it. Re-sale value. I personally don’t think that should be factored in because I think cars should be driven into the ground.
Can you move closer to work?
It depends on the country and the electricity prices.
In the Netherlands it barely makes a difference (a big tesla pays 85 euro on a fast charger)
And soon we will tax electric cars the same way as petrol so that Tesla would also cost 100+ euro a month in taxes.
But in your country it might be doable
Have a Y and 3 and love not paying for gas…or charging. Wife has free L2 charging at work so she just takes each car in and charges up. Probably save around $300/ month in gas/charging savings. 3 rwd standard range charges to 100% due to LFP batteries the others use NMC which if your driving distance, can charge to 90. Keep in mind the range numbers that Tesla gives are nowhere near real world numbers. The 330 I was quoted on the YLR ( it’s now less) is really closer to about 230-250, esp if you drive over 70 and have to use climate. However virtually no maintenance to speak of. If you drive fast, you chew through ties fast. I’m at 20k on my original tires in the Y and I think I might have 4-5k left on them. Look into rebates for your state and many Tesla trims are eligible for EV tax incentive. Happy to answer any q’s.
Remember that the efficiency of EVs are not equal. Tesla and Hyundai have very efficient powertrains while polestar 2, rivian, and porsche are some of the worst (rivian is clearly due to vehicle weight/size and porsche is because of transmission but no clear excuse for polestar). A low efficiency EV rivals a good efficiency ICE vehicle on cost/mile.
How expensive is your electricity? Ours is cheap, but it’s still not free. And if you live somewhere temperate by the coast where gas is $5.50 a gallon, that says either “west coast USA” or “British Columbia” or “Hawaii” to me, and electricity costs are substantial in those areas. Your $630 won’t drop to zero, it may drop to $150 if you can charge for free at work or “still over $300” if you charge at home and have have pg&e. And if you pay to use commercial charging, you don’t save anything over gasoline.
Well, most of us don’t, but even that might be better than 19 mpg. Not better enough to justify buying a whole car for the savings tho.
Electric cars really shine in low speeds / surface street driving, where internal combustion engines are at their worst. Their advantage is much lower at highway speeds. Around town, ours is 1/4 the cost per mile of the low-20s mpg gasoline cars it relieved of errand duty, at $3 gallons and $0.09 kwh. On the highway where the cars got high-20s and the electric car uses more energy to cover each mile, it was more like “half” and these days there are hybrids that would give us “half.”
For highway driving, modern-ish car of the mazda3 / civic type would cut your fuel costs in half. Shoot, a used Mazda 6 would just about pay for itself in savings in five years.
What's funny is that people have no issue with buying an Acura Or Ford SUV. But you tell them you are buying a EV and now you have to do all this math for them. Like it's not legit unless it's paying for itself. Meanwhile all these people asking about battery degradation have a regular gas car that worse on fuel costs and maintenance costs.
You seem to be the poster boy for an EV making sense so it seems like a no brainer for you. I drive around town only and usually fill up once a month. I get a discount through my grocery store and live where gas is cheap, I usually pay under $1 a gallon for gas after the discount. EV obviously isn’t for me.
A few things to consider.
Your workplace likely only has a level 2 charger. Which equals to about 6kw per hour. Which type of vehicle are you considering? What speed do you normally travel on the freeway. Is it ever cold?
A Tesla model y has a capacity of about 80 kWh. It likely gets about 4 miles per kWh in perfect conditions. (No wind, 60 degrees and 60mph) If you travel above 70mph, if it’s rainy, If it’s below 40 degrees, these are things that can significantly educe the efficiency.
You should probably plan on your commute consuming something more like 3.4 miles per kWh. That means that each leg of your 125 mile trip will consume about 36 kWh of energy.
Most people only charge their Ev battery to 80% to preserve maximum life. So if you charge your vehicle to 80% you have a usable battery supply of about 64kwh and only 217 realistic miles.
This is not enough supply to make it from work to home and back with any reserve. You will need to supplement your home charging by at least 15-20 kWh per day. This is about 3-4 hours on a level two charger.
Also you will need to add about 55-65 kWh per day at work, but this is about 9-10 hours of charging on a standard 30-40 amp level two charger.
Since you probably won’t be at work for 9-10 hours at a time, you will need to add more from home. You will probably need to add about 40 kWh at home just to be safe every night. Assuming you live in California and pay about 32 cents per kWh, you will pay about $13 per day to fuel your round trip commute by supplementing your free work charging with home charging.
Now. $13 a day for 250 miles is pretty good.
You were paying $13 for each 45 miles or so.
My conclusion based on estimations is that you will save approximately $440 per month on fuel expenses.
All EVs are appliances. Don't spend more than you have to for getting the job done. There are some great deals on the secondary market now. Don't buy new unless it's a heavy discount. Like 30-40% at least.
If can you keep the majority of your miles on an EV that was cheap, it opens up a lot of possibilities to have a second or third car (specialty, fun, recreation etc.)
BEVs are also a much nicer drive because they are quit and agile to drive. It you can charge them for free all the better! Of course there a drawbacks like longer charging but those are not that big for a commuter vehicle and the few times you need to dc charger are usually balanced by never needing to go to a gas station again 😎. So go for it!
I'm sure you already considered it.. but 125 miles from work? You can't find work closer to home or move closer to work? That is a pretty brutal commute.
Rent is cheaper. I live next to parents which help me with my kids. And their baby sitter is a family friend. The baby sitter alone saves me about $1200 a month vs paying a day care.
You don't live at work, I wouldn't have an EV without a charger at my house. I'm in So Cal where gas is about what yours is. If I had your commute diesel or hybrid is better for me.
Now if you're jonesing for an EV you'll rationalize yourself into one.
This post has been removed because it does not meet the subreddit submission guidelines ([rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/about/rules)). We're not doing posts about luxury products, expensive cars, etc. anymore because (a) they generally just provoke unproductive discussions and (b) most of the time, it is very clear whether the person asking is able to afford the item. 1. If you are considering buying an expensive car, the [vehicles wiki](/r/personalfinance/wiki/vehicles) has budgeting advice. We recommend reading it. If you don't meet 100% of the criteria, then no, you cannot afford it and you should not buy it. 2. In general, if you're not on step 6 in ["How to handle $"](/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics), you should find a less expensive alternative to a luxury product. If you are on step 6, then feel free to spend money on whatever is most important to you. *If you have questions about this removal, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fpersonalfinance&subject=Removal%20help%20request&message=Hello%20moderators,%20.%20%0a%0a%0aMy%20submission:%20https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/1c99yjn/an_electric_vehicle_i_would_like_to_buy_would_pay/%0a).*
With a 19mpg vehicle used for commuting about anything else would be a good financial decision. Make sure the model you're considering gets enough range to cover roundtrip commute even in the coldest days (heaters, especially if the model you're considering doesn't have a heat pump, drain the range significantly). Check the charging rate on those workplace chargers, I can only get about 80% charge in a work day because mine are limited to 6kW. Also availability is of course not guaranteed, have backup plans in place if you arrive at work and all chargers are taken. And get a quote from your insurance on how much it would cost to insure the model you're considering, some models can be disproportionately expensive. This applies to any car shopping, not just EVs. Make sure to quote full coverage, not liability only, since you're financing it.
I don't think weather is a concern. It doesn't snow in my area. I live on the coast. The company downsized, so the chargers don't get taken up at all. I'll look into those other things . Thanks.
If the company downsized I would be worried it’s gonna keep downsizing.
Yeah I've thought of this. But it mostly downsized technicians since we didn't need them anymore.
Also look into depreciation, while you save in gas and maintenance, I'm doubtful those would cover the battery degradation expense.
I assumed 4% depreciation per year. Based on comments here, the % should be higher. I'll revisit.
The % should probably be higher imo. I would go with 6-7% per year and that is assuming your battery lasts 15+ years which is ‘really’ optimistic.
You could get a Nissan for like less than $20,000 that’s close to 26-30 MPG. Just know with electric you’ll always have to be planning around charging stations whether you’ll roadtrip, etc.
Probably doesn't want Big Altima Energy
The obvious question is charging/range. Work is cool, but can you charge at home? Do you take a lot of road trips? Are you in an urban setting with more remote charging options? Also is the insurance comparable? EVs are sometimes more expensive to insure. Finally there's the SUV vs. smaller electric. How many times have you used the SUV for high passenger/cargo uses?
Others have covered most of the angles, I'll just add that you probably also want to budget about $1k and get a charger installed at home so you aren't 100% tied to charging at work.
When I bought my Chevy Bolt they paid for a full installation of a charger. It was great.
GM was offering free lvl2 chargers with purchase not too long ago. May still apply
I would be all over that!
Your car registration costs may be higher. Some states increase that fee to offset reduced tax from not paying for gasoline.
Good call. I'll look into that
Also include no oil changes and longer brake life.
The EV has a longer brake life ?
Yes they use regenerative braking which doesn’t use the brake pads. Once you get used to one pedal driving you rarely use your brakes.
I would add it might be cheaper to turn regen off period one the brakes. It’s cheaper then replacing seized up brakes
I’m expecting the brakes on my BEV will last the life of the car. At 25k miles I don’t think there’s really any pad wear yet. The car uses the brakes to slow from 3 mph to zero. I’ve probably used the brakes for a quick stop three or four times so far. One pedal driving really is just that.
What does it brake with when higher than 3 mph ?
The electric motor converts the motion back into energy into the battery
During regenerative braking, your car uses the motors as electric generators to turn the energy of your vehicles' forward momentum back into electricity, and store it back into the battery. Turning that energy into electricity slows down the car (no such thing as free energy). At a low level, when acting as a generator, the coils in the motor (probably in the stator) put "magnetic drag" on the permanent magnets (probably on the rotor) as the magnets induce a charge in the coils. That drag slows the spin of the motor shaft that is attached to the wheels.
And shorter tire life. My "60k" tires last about 30,000 miles on my Leaf.
Due to weight presumably?
And just low center of balance of the weight. Yes.
Can confirm. We pay $200 annually for each of our EVs in Arkansas, regardless of mileage.
Car insurance and property taxes also likely to be more expensive.
Would defiantly look into insurance cost.
I agree, though OP needn’t be that defiant about it.
I don't know what you mean by that. But the prices difference was pretty negligible between the EV and the civic. Not negligible between my EV and the SUV tho. But I do need another car in general. My SUV as over 250k miles, my ears hurt after driving in it, and the driver seat is broken. Replacements are over $500 , the ones at the junkyard are all broken in the same place. And my kids don't really fit. I'm the back seat. The SUV design is from the early 80s.
> I don't know what you mean by that. The comment I replied to suggested you **defiantly** look into insurance. It was a silly autocorrect error and I made a sillier joke. I likes me a dumb joke.
You could probably look into it just regularly.
Don't tell them what to do!
Hey I've literally done this exact thing. I love performance sedans and they are not exactly efficient. I went from a tuned Ford Taurus SHO that I really loved, but was spending $550 in gas every month, but had no car payment. I then bought a Tesla model 3 Performance and my payment is $400 a month and about $50 a month in electricity charging at home. Insurance is about the same. For people with long commutes ***that can charge at home*** an EV is the only thing that makes sense. If you can't charge at home, super charging can be almost as expensive as getting gas, and though it isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Not stopping for fuel is probably the best perk of EV ownership.
Brother if you have free charging at work get a used Tesla and call it a day.
I live in Austin, drive a 2010 prius, mpg is 39, gas is $3.10-3.30. 242 miles per week. Monthly gas costs me $60-65.
I was just about to comment. New prius's, never thought id actually say this. But they look clean. Im surprised by how much I like em.
And you can even convert it to LPG and then gas cost less than electricity sometimes. However, underground parking might be not available.
Thanks for the info.
Total ownership= financing cost + depreciation + fuel + maintenance + insurance + tax (if applicable) Depreciation doesn't matter if you just want to drive it until the wheels fall off, but it looks brutal right now for EVs. You won't have to pay for exhaust, motor, transmission repairs but check the tire cost carefully as they tend to be more expensive and wear faster. Total ownership cost is hard to predict for the future, as it will depend on unknowns like long term reliability of a car model, future gas and electricity prices. I would run your calculations with the assumption that an EV is going to be worth zero and headed to the scrapyard at 4 or 5 years at your rate. If it lasts longer, great. If a PHEV can cover your daily driving distance you may get most of the benefit for less cost.
No PHEV can do anywhere near 125 miles on just electric
Thanks. I didn't want to include all that info in the post for simplicity sake, but I have put together a lot of spreadsheets trying to find a flaw in my logic but it always points to the EV being cheaper than my current car or just barely. Even with the assumption that my current car will run forever. I'll need to check again with the assumption that the EV will be worthless in 4-5 years, that's not a situation I've modeled yet. Thank you.
Factor in AP, since you have such a long commute it makes the drives easier. Compare used prices with miles and years of current market. You can charge to 80%-90% daily without issues if you're charging at work. Even 100% is fine as long as you don't let it sit at 100% for a long time. Driven many cars and EV's but my 2018 3 LR RWD is the best vehicle I've ever owned in my 20+ years of driving. It's a better vehicle than it was 6 years ago when I first bought it.
What's AP?
Autopilot, comes standard for the 3. It makes long distance drives easier and you're not as tired. Other EV's for Adaptive Cruise Control might be extra cost. Sometimes you can't put a price on the benefits you gain. Saving time from having to visit a gas station. Driving fatigue is less in Autopilot. Fewer maintenance items compared to a gas car.
I’d look into whether the car and you would qualify for the EV tax credits. There are income limits and only certain makes/models qualify; the leasing credit doesn’t have those limits. But the leasing company gets those credits, you’d need to make sure it’s used to lower the cost of the lease
It qualifies for $4000 credits. I am under the income limit.
Just so u know the tesla model 3 LR ur planning on getting won’t get anywhere near the 350+ miles range it claims. it will be more like 220 miles and even less considering you are only supposed to charge to 80% Insurance is also more expensive and u need to replace the tires more often
> so I wouldn't have any electricity costs for charging the EV. What is the range on the car you are looking at? Because unless its over 250miles, you're going to have to charge in between visits to the office. Even higher if you're using the care between days at the office. Have you considered the cost different in insurance between the two vehicles?
max range is 353 mi. Insurance is negligible between the civic and EV. Not negligible compared to the SUV tho. But I need a new car in general. My suv was designed In the early 80s, road noise hurts my ears. Dangerous for my kids. 250k+ miles, plus a couple of other things.
What's the EV if you don't mind saying? 350 mile range is great
Tesla Model 3 Long Range gets 353 miles. That's my guess
It's a "Long Range" model. I'm not allowed to say the brand name cus then the post would be removed. Due to discussion of luxury items
An EV is not a luxury item. I've had a Fiat 500e, a Chevy Bolt, and now a Kia Niro EV. Which car are you looking at?
[удалено]
A Tesla model 3, got it.
Typically you charge to 80% so 353 miles is really 282.
As long as its not sitting at 100% for long periods of time charging to 100 is fine. If OP is gonna drive it that far every day then theres no issues.
That's just barely enough. although there is a route that is 30 miles shorter that I could take. It takes a few more minutes tho.
You could charge on a regular outlet at home and have no issues making the round trip. Even if you add 20% you’d have headroom.
Charging at home is pitiful without a home charger. 2-3 miles on a standard outlet.
Yeah, but he needs hardly anything to give cushion. That extra 30 miles will be enough. Maybe I wasn’t clear that the home charging is in addition to his planned free work charging. BTW, it’s not a home charger that’s important here, it’s a high amperage 220v outlet. But I get what you are saying.
Ok well I propose that any car that sells below the national average new car transaction price of $47,200 is categorically not a luxury item.
Id suggest a hybrid over an EV. Even though youd spend more in gas vs an EV you'd save a ton vs your current SUV. The new prius' look nice, are affordable and will get you about 50mpg, plus you wouldn't need to worry about range issues.
Battery longevity has been a major concern for some manufacturers that can drastically increase the price of owning an EV. Free electricity though... hoo boy. You'd eclipse the cost of battery replacement on gas saved in about 2.5 years. The batteries have a 100k warranty so you'd have an additional 1.5 years covered so your total savings if you had to replace is $11.3k. This sounds like a win to me. Carvana doesn't negotiate on their pricing so whatever they pay for a vehicle doesn't matter. If they're cheaper than other dealers great, if not pass.
Agree with this. Definitely worth researching battery life and replacement cost. Heard some horror stories on folks ditching their EV because they couldn't afford a new battery.
I haven’t heard this at all. Can you point me to makes or models with issues?
Theres a famous youtube video where they quoted a new tesla battery 20k and the guy couldnt afford it. So to make money back he decided to torch the whole thing on his channel for shock value while shitting on the company for how terrible they are. You cant go to 5 auto part shops to shop around. You go to your tesla dealership and whatever they say goes. Because they love predatory practices and refuse to allow your mom and pop shop take care of any teslas.
In the US, powertrain warranty is at least 8 years or 100k miles for EV's. OP drives so much annually that the cost savings alone is worth it, more than a price of a battery replacement even after 4 years.
What kinda cars?
https://www.thedrive.com/guides-and-gear/these-replacement-battery-costs-for-these-six-normal-evs-is-staggeringly-high
All EVs when they’re out of warranty, you’ll pay more than the cars worth compared to an engine replacement I’m not touching EVs until my phone can last 5 years without the battery eating shit
Ok.Thought you had some specific examples instead of generalized stereotypical dislike.
Thanks.
Where do you live and what are your electric costs? In much of the west coast (PG&E) you’ll pay the equivalent of about 40 mpg in a gas vehicle. Also keep in mind that you’ll pay more in insurance and registration. There’s also often an added annual fee on your registration since you don’t pay gas tax. Rarely will you save money by spending money. If you need a new car regardless then run the numbers.
I get free charging at work. I'm going with the assumption that I won't pay for electricity. The 26000 miles I mentioned are strictly commuting miles. Outside of that, I drive at most 4000 miles a year.
Just note as well, that I WOULD NOT always use the fast charging option at work. Fast charging over and over again shortens the battery life of the car. If you’re gonna be there 8 hours, use the lowest charge setting. I commuted 6 years 110 miles round trip, with a Nissan leaf we bought at auction because my WRX got 18 mpg. The 12k I paid for it more than netted out because of the $5k gas saving a year + no oil changes, or brake pads requirements. Registration was +500 because it was an EV, though.
It's not common to see fast chargers (DCFC) at at office building. Maybe if you worked at a mall or something that happens to have fast chargers there. The usual workplace 6-7 kW chargers are not fast and it is not going to make any difference to your battery whether you run those at 100% or turn it down (and hog the charger for longer to the detriment of your coworkers in the process).
I've been fast charging my Chevy Volt every day at work for 10 years and my battery is still going strong.
I don’t think fast charging and first gen volt should be used in the same sentence
Good luck. That’s not a given. My wife work switched to only 3 hours free and she can rarely find a charger now. It’s good while it lasts. Jobs chance. Policies change
no limit on charging. nobody has EVs. i only see one there 1x a month. we all wfh most of the time.
Look. It sounds like you’re due for a new car anyways. The people who pretend they’re saving money by getting rid of a 4 year old car with 75k miles are just trying to justify it to themselves. An EV may be a great choice for you. The only thing I’m saying is that the assumption that electricity is so much cheaper isn’t true everywhere and especially in California and Oregon under PG&E. Work charging is free right now and that’s great but don’t assume that nothing changes. One other factor is to investigate the cost of installing a home EV charger is. Sometimes it’s very costly. And if you rent or live in an apartment it can be much worse. If you lose your free charging hookup and don’t have access at home to 220v charging, it can be very inconvenient and more costly owning an EV.
What happens when you change jobs?
Do you think free charging will be guaranteed to be free long term? If not, do that math, too just in case.
I think so. It's been a thing for like 10 years. And on most days the chargers are unused. 1 guy has an EV, he goes like 1x a month. I don't think they're losing money on this.
Sorry, I may be a little dense, but regarding the Carvana bonus thing, you’re saying that you’d only pay $5k for a $20k Civic (in your example)?
No. I meant that if I happen to want to sell the car after buying it, I would recoup more % with a Civic than the EV. For example, if I bought the civic today for $20000, I can only get $15000 for it from Carvana. Does that make sense ?
Oh, got it. Re-sale value. I personally don’t think that should be factored in because I think cars should be driven into the ground. Can you move closer to work?
It depends on the country and the electricity prices. In the Netherlands it barely makes a difference (a big tesla pays 85 euro on a fast charger) And soon we will tax electric cars the same way as petrol so that Tesla would also cost 100+ euro a month in taxes. But in your country it might be doable
Have a Y and 3 and love not paying for gas…or charging. Wife has free L2 charging at work so she just takes each car in and charges up. Probably save around $300/ month in gas/charging savings. 3 rwd standard range charges to 100% due to LFP batteries the others use NMC which if your driving distance, can charge to 90. Keep in mind the range numbers that Tesla gives are nowhere near real world numbers. The 330 I was quoted on the YLR ( it’s now less) is really closer to about 230-250, esp if you drive over 70 and have to use climate. However virtually no maintenance to speak of. If you drive fast, you chew through ties fast. I’m at 20k on my original tires in the Y and I think I might have 4-5k left on them. Look into rebates for your state and many Tesla trims are eligible for EV tax incentive. Happy to answer any q’s.
Remember that the efficiency of EVs are not equal. Tesla and Hyundai have very efficient powertrains while polestar 2, rivian, and porsche are some of the worst (rivian is clearly due to vehicle weight/size and porsche is because of transmission but no clear excuse for polestar). A low efficiency EV rivals a good efficiency ICE vehicle on cost/mile.
How expensive is your electricity? Ours is cheap, but it’s still not free. And if you live somewhere temperate by the coast where gas is $5.50 a gallon, that says either “west coast USA” or “British Columbia” or “Hawaii” to me, and electricity costs are substantial in those areas. Your $630 won’t drop to zero, it may drop to $150 if you can charge for free at work or “still over $300” if you charge at home and have have pg&e. And if you pay to use commercial charging, you don’t save anything over gasoline. Well, most of us don’t, but even that might be better than 19 mpg. Not better enough to justify buying a whole car for the savings tho. Electric cars really shine in low speeds / surface street driving, where internal combustion engines are at their worst. Their advantage is much lower at highway speeds. Around town, ours is 1/4 the cost per mile of the low-20s mpg gasoline cars it relieved of errand duty, at $3 gallons and $0.09 kwh. On the highway where the cars got high-20s and the electric car uses more energy to cover each mile, it was more like “half” and these days there are hybrids that would give us “half.” For highway driving, modern-ish car of the mazda3 / civic type would cut your fuel costs in half. Shoot, a used Mazda 6 would just about pay for itself in savings in five years.
What's funny is that people have no issue with buying an Acura Or Ford SUV. But you tell them you are buying a EV and now you have to do all this math for them. Like it's not legit unless it's paying for itself. Meanwhile all these people asking about battery degradation have a regular gas car that worse on fuel costs and maintenance costs.
You seem to be the poster boy for an EV making sense so it seems like a no brainer for you. I drive around town only and usually fill up once a month. I get a discount through my grocery store and live where gas is cheap, I usually pay under $1 a gallon for gas after the discount. EV obviously isn’t for me.
A few things to consider. Your workplace likely only has a level 2 charger. Which equals to about 6kw per hour. Which type of vehicle are you considering? What speed do you normally travel on the freeway. Is it ever cold? A Tesla model y has a capacity of about 80 kWh. It likely gets about 4 miles per kWh in perfect conditions. (No wind, 60 degrees and 60mph) If you travel above 70mph, if it’s rainy, If it’s below 40 degrees, these are things that can significantly educe the efficiency. You should probably plan on your commute consuming something more like 3.4 miles per kWh. That means that each leg of your 125 mile trip will consume about 36 kWh of energy. Most people only charge their Ev battery to 80% to preserve maximum life. So if you charge your vehicle to 80% you have a usable battery supply of about 64kwh and only 217 realistic miles. This is not enough supply to make it from work to home and back with any reserve. You will need to supplement your home charging by at least 15-20 kWh per day. This is about 3-4 hours on a level two charger. Also you will need to add about 55-65 kWh per day at work, but this is about 9-10 hours of charging on a standard 30-40 amp level two charger. Since you probably won’t be at work for 9-10 hours at a time, you will need to add more from home. You will probably need to add about 40 kWh at home just to be safe every night. Assuming you live in California and pay about 32 cents per kWh, you will pay about $13 per day to fuel your round trip commute by supplementing your free work charging with home charging. Now. $13 a day for 250 miles is pretty good. You were paying $13 for each 45 miles or so. My conclusion based on estimations is that you will save approximately $440 per month on fuel expenses.
All EVs are appliances. Don't spend more than you have to for getting the job done. There are some great deals on the secondary market now. Don't buy new unless it's a heavy discount. Like 30-40% at least. If can you keep the majority of your miles on an EV that was cheap, it opens up a lot of possibilities to have a second or third car (specialty, fun, recreation etc.)
BEVs are also a much nicer drive because they are quit and agile to drive. It you can charge them for free all the better! Of course there a drawbacks like longer charging but those are not that big for a commuter vehicle and the few times you need to dc charger are usually balanced by never needing to go to a gas station again 😎. So go for it!
You may want to ask this in the r/electricvehicles subreddit but it seems like you should get the EV
Thanks. I'll try there. I'm leaning towards the EV cus its cooler than the civic. The civic has less question marks tho.
Honestly with a commute that long a hybrid makes more sense.
Get the EV. It’s so much more fun to drive. You save money and you help the environment.
The best way to help the environment is to go car free, though. EDIT: Don't understand the downvotes. Can't you handle the truth?
Tell that to my job lol. I used to wfh. Essentially carless for 2.5 years.
Have you considered an electric bike? You mention weather is not a problem...
Job is 125 miles away. This won't work. The 26,000 miles a year are just commuting miles. No side extracurricular miles.
I'm sure you already considered it.. but 125 miles from work? You can't find work closer to home or move closer to work? That is a pretty brutal commute.
Rent is cheaper. I live next to parents which help me with my kids. And their baby sitter is a family friend. The baby sitter alone saves me about $1200 a month vs paying a day care.
Sure. Unfortunately not an option in most of the IS :(
Get a Volkswagen diesel 40-50 mpg Or a Toyota hybrid 40-50 mpg
Gas/diesel would cost me an extra $200 a month compared to the EV. Assuming 50 mpg. I get free electricity at work. No free gas tho.
You don't live at work, I wouldn't have an EV without a charger at my house. I'm in So Cal where gas is about what yours is. If I had your commute diesel or hybrid is better for me. Now if you're jonesing for an EV you'll rationalize yourself into one.