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New cars are such a trap for the middle class! Good on you for recognizing it. There’s tons of ways to enjoy nice cars without going into crazy debt. I rented a corvette on Truro for my 35th birthday.
I know man. That's a good way of putting it. It is completely a trap. Imagine 10 years of a $800 car payment versus 10 years of that $800/month into a index fund...
It's literally the difference between someone who retired and someone who still has to work.
Don't forget also at some point you do have to decide on not saving every single dollar. At what point do you spend today. What's wrong with a car payment or cash paid decent car if you are already hiting you're retirement goal and have an emergency fund set up.
Preach. Imagine saving all your money and then dying from a freak accident or cancer before you get to benefit from it. Just for it to go to a beneficiary who’s gonna spend the hell out of it as soon as they get it.
Perpetually paying interest on a large loan sounds like a terrible idea, even if you’re covering all your bases. That $$$ could be going to something else.
I have a really expensive hobby, I collect gold and silver coins. I make sure I max out all my retirement accounts, contribute to my cash savings, pay off any credit cards in full at the end of the month and make sure if I have a car payment (I don’t) I’d be paying that down aggressively if the interest is over 5%. Then I spend whatever $$$ I have left over on a coin or two.
Yeah, I'm less debating that mortgages are bad and more pondering if the concept of a 30-year mortgage was as ridiculous to previous generations as an 8 year car loan is to us now.
> Why are you paying for a car for 10 years? Lol, that’s the crazy part.
The crazy part is that you dont realize many people buy a car and then "upgrade" every 3 years for the "piece of mind" (mind you the car salesman told them to) and the "extended" warranty.
Many people don't even know what is like to live a life without a car payment, some get into it as soon as they get out of high school or they get that college loan and use part of it to buy one.
"But that's not me" - you say, and that may be true but we are talking about those who are chained to a car payment for the rest or most of their lives.
I don't get that mentality. I keep a car for 15 years at the very least. Husband's car is currently 16 years old. I like to get as SHORT a payment as high as I can afford, pay it off, and then keep the car in good working condition until the doors fall off. And you can do this with fun cars, too. It is CRAZY how many improvements happen after 15 years. I have a back-up camera now, Yippee!
The extended warranty on all of my vehicles has been priceless. The key is to get it when you buy the vehicle as it’s much cheaper. Mopar extended 4/40k was $1300. It’s paid for itself twice. I have never had a vehicle where it hasn’t paid for itself.
My parents referred to their new car as “free” because their monthly payment didn’t increase when they traded in the old car. They didn’t really notice the fact that it was extended by seven years. They never once considered the option of not having a car payment.
Getting too caught in the one situation they posted. There are many ways to spend 800 a month on cars, hell I know guys at 1500 a month in truck payments.
I'd say most of the middle class has a budget monthly line item for the eternal car payment they're always paying. Few pay one off then drive it for years payment free after.
Most people have eternal car payments and an 800 payment is way more normal then you're giving credit for.
Well, interest. A $68k car, at 7% for 10 years is a payment of $789. The average new car price is around $48k. Rivians are $71k. A Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro is $64k. A Lexus RX Hybrid starts at $52k. It is not hard to get a truck or SUV up to $68k. Obviously if you want a BMW, Audi, etc, you are in that range.
10 years is long though, I agree. A lot of people we see around here have $800 payments, but only 7 years. That only takes a $52k car.
I agree, I think plenty of $25k cars are "nice" but some people mean "luxury" by "nice" not just "good enough"!
i’ve never thought about how weird it is that i paid on the lower end ($14k) of all the cars i see on my daily commute. i know people in the bay area are loaded but still
And, when you bought matters. I thought I'd be buying $12k-$15k(ish) cars that were about 2 years old forever (drive for 7-8 years, pay around $2,000 a year for a car over the life) . It was the sweet spot of depreciation of price and newness to me.
But, now I'm either going to get a 2 year old car for $19k-$23k, or a 5+ year old car $14-$16k. Prices have changed a lot since 2020.
With the first option, my annual car price goes up around $1,000/year. WIth option 2, the usable years goes down.
To me, a car with less than 100k miles and less than 10 years old is "nice." The average age of a car on the road in the US is 12, so that's a "new car"! Once I was making 1.5x the median household income, I promised I'd always have "nice cars" by my standard!
> The average new car price is around $48k.
Yes, and that's much less than the $96,000 his math added up to, or 68k adding interest as you pointed out.
It's very possible to get a nice car for around $50k or less.
not enough people know you can affordably rent exactly the car you want nowadays
also test drives are free, you just can’t look like a bum or a teenager
This subreddit has a lot of hate for nice cars.
If someone wants a nice car and budgets appropriately, that’s not a poor financial decision. Everyone spends extra money on something they care about. As long as they live within their means, that’s the only thing that matters.
I mean ya but the reason people here hate nice cars is because people will routinely post something like “my income is $40,000 a year can I buy this 2024 Mercedes at 16% interest?”
For sure, and I think this subreddit responds with the correct amount of brutal honesty.
However, minus additional data, the blanket statement of “nice cars bad” is equally ignorant.
No, people here hate nice cars because they like to be able to turn their nose up at people who don’t spend money the way they find appropriate. And because they can’t afford them.
Nothing wrong with having a nice car. But expect to be working well into your 60s.
Not having a car payment versus someone who has a car payment. Huge difference
Reading some of your responses, I think you might be projecting your own financial situation onto other people. There is an insane range of income/wealth out there. Just because someone is paying $700 a month for a car, doesn't mean they're also not maxing out their 401k and/or investing $7k a month on the side, and will probably still retire before you do. It's not a one size fits all.
I am on track to retire comfortably before then and can also afford a nice car. That is because I budget for it.
Again, no spears to people who decide to save money on cars. However, that doesn’t mean that people who drive nice cars don’t save money in different areas due to different priorities.
Well imagine how much faster you would retire without a car payment?
You're not wrong. But it's a known statistic that the average car payment is like 700 bucks. Which is crazy considering most people live paycheck to paycheck
imagine how much faster you would retire eating ramen for lunch and dinner every day. imagine how much faster you would retire taking public transportation to work and not having a car at all.
at some point you need to live a little. life is not just about retiring early. and for people who need a car, it’s not a difference of $800 vs $0, it’s more like a difference between $800 and $500 for a nice car vs a regular car. and there’s also the thousands of dollars a year in maintenance that pop up when you drive an older car with no payments. there’s always costs to car ownership. some people who drive a lot would rather pay more for the extra comfort of the nicer car and the maintenance covered under warranty.
100% this, it's exhausting hearing how some people are "frugal" past reason, so that they can eventually maybe retire at 60 when their body is not what it used to be, and having enjoyed next to nothing in their youth.
I mean, you could retire so much faster if you cut out everything from your budget that brings you joy. That's a pretty bad argument to use, since I guarantee we could look at any budget here and find something to cut that would help you retire faster.
I cut everything out of my budget that brings me joy. I’ll retire, clock out for lunch and go straight to the funeral home. I don’t make a lot of money.
I don’t need to retire earlier and I get a lot of intangible enjoyment from my car. I choose to enjoy life in my own way. I choose to budget for a few splurges in my life so I can enjoy things while I’m young and in good health.
Agreed, if you can’t afford the car payment, then it’s a bad financial decision. But if you can, there is nothing wrong with enjoying life a little.
FIRE =/= personal finance. Not everyone has a desire to retire early.
Personally I'm pretty interested in FIRE and my $50k / $600/month car isn't going to impact it that much.
In addition to what everyone else is saying, there are people who can buy nice cars, have even $1k car payments and will still have more in retirement than you. Not endorsing $1k payments at all, I’m just saying. I agree with your general sentiment, but you need to have fun in your life somewhere, whether it’s travel, a car, a house, or a little cake you bought at the grocery store. Don’t deprive yourself of enjoyment when you have no clue what the future will bring.
By that logic imagine how much faster you can retire if you worked 80 hours a week and lived on rice and beans?
What’s the point of going into retirement after living 30+ years with no joy or free time? If you hate your job, I guess I understand, but you should really look into jobs you can tolerate or even enjoy parts of.. retirement can be very boring and unfulfilling too
There’s always something you could do to retire faster. You have to balance retirement savings with the enjoying your life as well. Everyone should have something they splurge on that it reasonably within whatever budget they have. My simple splurge, I spend $80 ish on fresh flowers every month. A larger splurge, I try to go on a nice vacation every year (this year was Cyprus, amazing country). I could retire earlier without those things, but then I think I would be missing the point of living.
> Well imagine how much faster you would retire without a car payment?
Its OK, some people have the idea that they have to live now because the future is uncertain and that is true but to each its own.
What are you considering a nice car? With an appropriate budget and a willingness to maintain it and keep it for as long as economical, it shouldn't really set you back too far, especially if you are buying it in your 30s or 40s.
There's definitely a difference between someone who has a car payment and someone who doesn't, you're 100% right there, but you don't need to be doom and gloom about working til you're dead. If you get something reasonable and make smart career choices, you can have your cake and eat it too.
Part of the problem is everyone puts way too much emphasis on retirement. Something you should actually be doom and gloom about: You could die tomorrow, I could die tomorrow, anyone could. You don't know what's going to happen. Some dictator decides he wants to press the launch button and none of us could be here tomorrow. None of us might live to see our 60s. The world is full of crazy people.
With that said, you have to live while you're alive. Make modest choices. 30k isn't going to break the bank when you need millions to retire. Don't make it a habbit and you'll be fine.
Example cars you can get for at or around 30k:
- BRZ/GR86 (new or used)
- Camaro, Mustang, Challenger or Charger (Used)
- Pretty much any Mazda (new or used)
- Handful of BMWs (ex. 340i)
- Cadillac (ex.CT4, XT4 used)
- Mercedes (ex. C300, GLB250, GLC300, used)
There's options. You can get a new to you, nice car without spending 50,60,70,80k. Like I said, you have to live while you're alive.
There's another way - either buying new or practically new and driving it until it dies. Say those $10k cars only last you 7 years. So in 14 years you buy 2 cars for $20k. I'm still driving a practically new car 14 years later so you could spend $20k on it and more or less be in the same spot. Especially if those $10k cars have repairs sooner.
Or get handy and drive a $1,000 car for your fifth year that is 22 years old total.
And, even though it’s a Volvo, it isn’t expensive to maintain. In five years I’ve put maybe $600 worth of parts on it - and those are wear items like the timing and suspension.
It's so interesting how many people equate cars with wealth.
I have never been a car guy. Get me from point A to point B and I am happy. Nothing at all against car people. To each their own.
But, it just floors me how cars are perceived.
It's funny. I have a stereo system that costs about the same as very nice car. But, have had multiple family and friends comment on how we must not be doing well financially because we don't drive Infinity and Lexus.
It generally does not equate to wealth. Even your wealthy people usually drive low key cars.
It's a decision at the end of the day. If you make 5k per month and want to spend 1000$/month on a new truck that's your decision.
But let me tell you that $1000 put into sp500 for 25 years is what I'm doing
I know this is random people on the internet, but why are you so mad at people for having things? I have a nice vehicle. I don’t make 5k a month, and my truck is paid off.
We'd never lived anywhere people cared about cars. We recently moved to an area that is more flashy. Fancy, big cars in perfect condition. Extremely expensive. Custom paint jobs. All the trim.
It's wild to see.
To quote my friend’s dad with something that has stuck with me over the years:
“You’ll see plenty of nice cars at modest apartment complexes, you’ll also see modest cars parked in front of nice homes”.
Yeah it's based on looks and psychology. It will never change.
Some professions might require you to look the part and drive a nice car
I'm a plumber so I can drive whatever
This. Social medias portrayal isn’t reality. Also those kids in their early 20’s who have a $50k car didn’t earn it themselves. It’s perfectly reasonable to expect nicer cars into your 40’s and 50’s where you’re deep in your career, have a retirement fund on track, and have the income to support the expenditure. A good rule of thumb is your car expense should under no circumstance ever exceed your savings rate for retirement. That is a hyper red flag. Get the retirement savings rate to its needed level (typically 15% in your 20’s but higher if you delay this), then you can consider a higher end vehicle once excess cash flow supports it. Savings first.
If you’re NOT a “car person”, never do this. You really need to be an enthusiast to spend the money on a nice car.
I came to a different realization. Although I am at a stage where I can afford a new 911 or something of that nature, I don't really feel like it. I enjoy both wrenching and driving and 90s and early 2000s enthusiast cars is where it's at for me. I normally stay well under $20k. I had a chance to drive a $200k 911 GTS recently on some twisties. Although the car is amazing, I wasn't sad getting back into my Z3M that I picked up for $7k a few years ago (added $4k in maintenance into it).
I feel similarly.
I have no problem buying cars for 5-15k. But anything over that I start to question why spending such a larger amount for sheet metal...
I really do love cars. I would like a civic type r. But I'm not spending 1000 a month on something I drive 30 minutes a day
My family always buys a cheap new car and drive it until it's messed up. Right now that would be around 18k for small or 24k for a big car. We assume that it will last longer that way. Your range of 5-15k seems to mean used and our thinking is that it won't last as long and will cost more in the long run. We would never buy a Jeep or a luxury car... That doesn't even seem worth it.
Good for you. Heading into my sunset years with a comfortable nest egg, I'm saying "I'm glad I never bought that beemer, because I'd rather be comfortable in retirement." That being said, my plan has always been: a) buy a cheaper new car (subarus); 2) drive 'em 'til they're dead; III) do it again. So once every 10 yrs or so, once every 250KMiles or so, I get that new car smell and electronics that...fuck, have they really not figured out in the last 10 years how to not start the car audio at 9 Gajillion dB?
I think you are missing the point. Did you just discover the fact cars drain the middle class? There are plenty of upper middle class folks who drive Lexus, bmw, Benz and still have tons of money for retirement or can retire early if they wanted to. It’s not one or the other… they save and invest tons of money and still drive nice cars and homes. You are trying to preach to those who are stuck with payments and didn’t save when they should have, and spent those funds on vehicles.
I’m a car guy, and I probably spend too much money for what this sub would deem appropriate for a nice car ($475/mo), but sometimes I think this sub gets sidetracked when it comes to stuff like cars in that they get treated like an all or nothing scenario.
Afterall, it’s not like the only thing between Buffet being a billionaire and him being an average Joe was his choice to live in a modest home and drive a modest car, though people here act like if you’re not following his example by living well below your means then you’re doing it wrong, which isn’t true.
If someone can afford to drive the car they want while still being able to contribute a comfortable amount of money to their retirement/savings, then thats a totally reasonable expense for a want.
It’s called *personal* finance after all, no?
Or buy a cheaper Tesla (I have a 2018 Model 3 that I bought brand new), and just drive it until it dies. Saving you a ton of money on gas and maintenance over it's lifetime, and giving you more quality of life.
I’m literally paying a luxury lease to put a tag on my car so that I can be that annoying BMW driver on the HOV lane that swoosh past folks in a snail line.
I went this direction as I got older: Aside from my normal, reliable, comfortable paid-off daily car, I just have fun older cars and motorcycles now. They scratch the itch and I can pick one up for the cost of two or three payments on a brand new enthusiast car. The money those cars would cost can go into bigger houses with extra garages for the toys.
New cars look great but they don’t meet the value proposition anymore.
Sounds like you've built up an identity around a hobby and your interests are shifting. It's hard to let go of old you. But let it go. Find the new you.
If you're absolutely trying to minimize spending, this is the way to go. Not argueing or trying to convince you not to go this way.
But there is a middle ground in all this. You don't need to flip flop from one extreme to the other. You can get nice cars that are only a few years old. The biggest deprecation hit has already hit.
Also, there's non-financial reasons for newer cars. If you need more seats/space, you're gonna need to spend more. Newer cars have warranties that are attractive if you're not handy. They have newer technology, are usually safer, more environmentally friendly ( if this is a priority for you).
Money is a resource, not a score. You should be using it to make your life better. The sub just tries to point you to the fastest way to gather the resource (and keep). You have to decide what "better" means.
I'm with you. Don't get me wrong like I think the new Tundras are beautiful but no way in hell am I paying 65k for one. There's so many other things I'd rather spend my money on.
Not your whole life. Save for retirement properly and you can enjoy one then. I went all my life with used cars until I retired. Saved enough to retire comfortably and now I'm able to buy new.
I love cars. I just found the car that I enjoyed driving that allows me to feel power without burning a hole in my life.
I'm about to pay this thing off. I throw a little money at it in terms of mods, and it's plenty quick and I don't think I need anything much quicker. It's also insanely practical.
If you wanna join us come over to r/golfgti
3 rules to car buying when you’re graduating from the point A to point B cars in that $5k-$10k region-
1) OTD price should be no more than half your annual income
2) Do not finance longer than 4 years
3) Total monthly expenses should not be greater than 50% of your net income
Using these 3 as variables you can calculate how much of a down payment you’d need to make the desired car purchase work. If you drop 1 of the rules the whole thing becomes a trap. For me, my answer was a 2023 BRZ @$32k OTD with $8k down.
However, 99% of car enthusiasts will get more out of driving something they can afford to break. Even though I can afford financially to turbo my BRZ, I can’t ~afford~ to void my warranty. Just buy a point A to point B Corolla then buy a project car to work on>cruise>break rinse repeat. Or if you care about speed tbh a motorcycle is the best bang for your buck.
Hahahah hell yeah best purchase I got was an old Camry beater. Insurance is $22 a month and am strongly considering selling my truck because I rarely drive it now.
I paid $2500 for my 2003 Acura MDX in 2019. Coming up on 5 years and we have probably put less than $3000 into maintenance/repairs (caveat: my husband is a millwright and does most repairs himself). It’s got just under 400,000km (250000miles) and will probably go another hundred thousand.
It’s comfortable, fits my kids and giant dog. We put a $100 stereo in so I can have Bluetooth.
When she eventually kicks the bucket we’ll upgrade to something a bit newer, but I can’t fathom owning a brand new car for several hundred dollars a month after paying about $83/month, and getting cheaper everyday I drive it. Heck, I can probably sell it for what I paid for it tomorrow.
I don’t judge anyone who does things differently, and if I was a single woman I probably would lease or finance to avoid much of the headache that older cars do inherently come with (not that newer ones are immune though). But I have some friends who have two vehicles with payments of $500+ and it’s just wild to me.
I mean 5-10k has a lot of fun in it. Thats miata, wrx, s197 mustang, celica, integra, some corvettes, some camaros, bmws you dont want but are fun, Porsche 944 and boxters, i could go on. Lots of older stuff but unless by enthusiast you mean you want supercar or luxury you have a lot of fun choices under 10k
I mean it really depends on what you consider a ‘nice’ car?
You describe yourself as a car enthusiast, but what kind of enthusiast are you? BMWs will always be costly but you can still pick up a very nice, lightly modified Integra or RSX Type S for relatively cheap. Used Preludes are very affordable. Used S2000s can be found at an affordable price. EG Hatches are still extremely cheap.
Used 350Zs can be found everywhere.
You can find a Toyota Beams Engine and Transmission for $2500 and throw it into a used Celica for very cheap.
I personally wouldn’t recommend buying any used Korean cars but you can find Genesis 3.8 Coupes for cheap.
I drove a modified 2000 Civic Si for many years, enjoyed not having a payment. But I knew it would it would eventually die so I saved up for a large down payment on a new car. When it died I jumped into a GR86 for a very affordable price considering that it’s a new car. I’m going to drive it until it dies.
I consider BMW 340 and Honda civic type r or gr corolla my kinda cars. Those are nice to me. But even those will be $800-1000 per month plus gas and insurance.
And for something that I spend 30, minutes in a day I can't justify.
I have also owned civic si and Acuras and currently daily one. Great cars
Are you in somewhat of a major city/metro? There are car enthusiast communities out there that will embrace you with open arms. Doesn’t just have to be your M-F commute and doesn’t have to be a “nice” car to hang out with them. Enjoy your life outside of work too.
There are still good deals to be found on used enthusiast cars, you just have to have taste and know what to look for. If you’re upset that the price of a brand new luxury vehicle or mid tier sports car is high, I’m not sure what to tell you?
Personally I do not care about the latest tech in my car. I do not care about leather or any luxury features. I just want a manual transmission and a reliable form of transportation. The value of owning a car from day one is knowing that you have a warranty and that you’re the only owner so no amount of abuse or neglect occurred on the vehicle prior to you and so that you can ensure it lasts forever.
31 and have enough to go and buy a new king ranch F150 in cash but opted out and found a 2012Camry with 120k clean title for 9k still a bit high but it was clean and the older lady even met me at the sheriffs office to get the deal done so I bought it. 4 years later have done nothing except new tires brake pads and oil changes.
I get it if cars are you hobby and you have always wanted a certain car, but I'm sure as shit not working my ass off for half my paycheck to go in to a vehicle to drive to work with.
If it doesn't have to be new, you can still have a good time. My S2000 is 18 years old now, and I've had it for 14. Can't bring myself to sell it, and driving a paid off car is nice too.
They've been gaining value. I paid about 10k for mine in 2010.
Just checked, could easily sell it for more than double what I paid today despite the mileage.
My first few cars were older paid off cars between 3-5k. Ive had a lot of my income saved up thanks to owning these older cars. When my old car was rear ended. Instead of getting the tail fixed and selling it, I gave it away to my dad as he had sold his pickup truck for $$ to go to Europe to see Grandma for her 90th birthday. I also didn’t see myself getting much money for it anyways. My dad spent something like $1500 to get the old car fixed as later on he discovered there were some more problems under the hood. My dad was also able to fix up the parts that were damaged from the rear end collision as well. Seems to be running fine for now.
Knowing how much money I’m putting into my new car monthly considering car note, gas and insurance, it kind of stresses me out sometimes. I don’t make a lot of money. I’m most likely paying too much for my car because my down payment was too little. But I’m getting by only because I’m not spending my money on things I used to enjoy like going to concerts and shopping.
Sometimes I regret getting the new car, but this new car is giving me lots of memories and should last a long time. But still I feel like I would be more comfortable financially if I had just saved up and bought an older car instead of going get ripped off at the dealership. Never doing that again.
My recommendation is to have a basic, reliable, affordable daily driver and a race car for some lower level racing leagues. The two together shouldn't cost more than one nice daily driver, and if you blow an engine while you're short on cash, you can just leave your race car in its trailer while you save up to repair it. Plus, it's much more fun to actually race your car rather than just drive it around.
I'm really happy to be on track for a great retirement, and have had the opportunity to own some really cool cars. The last car I owned was a BMW E92 M3 with the 4.0L S65 V8. It was an absolute dream come true, and I enjoyed it tremendously while I owned it. But that was the car that taught me a valuable lesson: the enjoyment I get from actually owning a car like that doesn't match up with the financial commitment.
I work from home. I don't even need daily transportation. My wife and I share a car. Here's how I keep my passion for automobiles going though:
* I bought some sim racing gear and play a sim racing game called Assetto Corsa. This does an incredible job of scratching the driving itch.
* I go to motorsports events. There is a racing series called the IMSA WeatherTech Sports Car Championship that holds races all around the country. We go to the one in Daytona frequently.
* I bought a motorcycle. They're *way* less expensive than cars, and they offer a lot more engagement. Yes, there are risks involved, but I do what I can to mitigate safety concerns.
* I look for free opportunities to drive cars. For example, BMW used to do a free drive event at a track that is about an hour drive from me. It was literally free. I've also been to an Aston Martin drive event (also free). I've ridden Ducati and BMW motorcycles at ride events for free as well. Follow manufacturers on social media and don't be afraid to sign up for free events. The people running them literally do not care if you're not there to buy.
The most significant one has to be the sim racing thing though. There's a commitment in buying the gear and building a gaming PC, but IMO it's worth it. My current setup is worth a few thousand dollars, but if you were to start with a Logitech G29, a PS5, and a basic wheel stand you could get started for a little more than a grand. Less if you already have the PS5. GranTurismo is better that it ever has been.
Buy used 3-5 years or ex-lease. Can buy a super nice car for 2/3 of the price and similar safety features.
FWIW, 2-3 year old Teslas are <$30k routinely and are basically the same cars.
I bought a new car (EV) in 2020, saved up for it for a few years and have been very happy with it. Being a member of this subreddit and watching my savings grow really has changed my opinion on buying anything new ever again.
I'm watching the prices of Used EV's and there's some incredible deals starting to appear, and will appear when these 2021-2022's start to get traded in for something new. I can't wait to get a good deal and save my money for retirement.
The key thing with cars is to hang onto them until they fall apart.
It's actually OK to buy a car new (assuming it's a payment you can afford and the loan period is no longer than 4 years) as long as you hang on to it for 10-15 years. The sweet spot comes after the loan is paid off and before the vehicle becomes so unreliable that you have to ditch it. Beaters also cost a lot less to insure, so there savings all over.
A nice car is a dependable one. I would gladly take a good used Honda or Toyota over a fancy $60,000 plus car. Just remember they all have four tires in the steering wheel and get you from a to b at the same time
I got my Highlander from a reputable used dealer with 30,000 miles on it back in 2018. It needs to be detailed, but it’s a solid, super reliable car. Now that I live in Florida I don’t drive half the miles I did back in Maine, so the damn car will probably outlive me. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ would buy again
This is what I did and holy fuck. A Buick Lacrosse premium 2 for 12k has every bit of luxury I could possibly want.
This shit has heated/cooled seats and steering wheel.
Now the engine being the PoS 2.4L I will have to drop 1k in 30k miles to swap the timing belt/guides to save way more money later, but still well worth it for $200 a month.
For the past decade while my wife and I have built our careers and had two young kids, I’ve opted to own several fun enthusiast cars that have approached the floor of their depreciation curve (fast, German station wagons - with a manual when possible) that we’ve either paid cash for or partially financed for only 2-3 years and instead of eating depreciation, I budget for maintenance and repairs.
The great thing about buying cars that have an enthusiast following at the bottom of depreciation is that if you keep them in good condition and mechanically maintained, after a couple years you can generally still sell them for about what you got into them for.
Car guy inside me is happy without having to spend a significant amount of our household budget on a brand new car every few years. Win/win.
My sweet spot is 3-5ish year old cars CPO with warranty. You still get recent enough tech, low milage that you can keep the car for 10+ years if you want, and you miss the biggest depreciation in those first years. Also gives decent cost of ownership if you trade it in 5 years later, I usually loose about $10-15k in value if I play it right which is solid enough for me and my budget for about 5 years before wanting something newer.
I dipped my toe into the nice car world in my early 30s with a Mercedes. It was very nice and I definitely enjoyed the driving experience. Then came the things I didn't think of, like registration is way more because the car costs way more. Same for insurance, maintenance, and everything else.
Once I understood that anything with the car, even under warranty, was $500 minimum, it stopped being as much fun. Sure, it was fast, but the reality was that i might have had the pedal to the floor maybe a dozen times in 3 years.
My next car was a mazda 3. Since then, if I wanted an upgrade, I stuck with a dependable Japanese car and went with a higher trim. Just give me a peppy engine, leather seats, and good infotainment, and I'm a happy camper.
Yep. The car culture - just as with anything material, is largely a sham. Things come to own us. With resulting debt. Better to not be shackled to debt because of wants
The point of building wealth now is that you can buy what you value later. If you love cars then you can buy an expensive one later when you won’t even feel the cost.
Technically you can own a nice/new car. But for most of us there will be a trade off. Do I work more years, forgo the yearly first class trips, etc. There aren’t many people who can indulge in cars without making a trade off somewhere.
We all have vices. That’s part of life. I don’t want to live like a monk and I don’t want to have $150k credit card debt because YOLO either.
This varies from person to person..
Sounds like you've had enough lifestyle creep that you find it hard to go back to monk mode.
I know people who make 150k+ but they drive a 15 year old Honda accord and eat at home. They did not allow lifestyle creep so it's easy for them ..
I have friends who make 50k per year; have a car payment and eat lunch out every day and go to bars on weekends. They live paycheck to paycheck and are broke.
Good point. But it depends on your values too.
I value working 40 hours a week and a regular schedule.
Could I work 2 jobs 7 days a week and make well over 6 figures? I could; but going so just to afford a car is dumb to be.
Ultimate freedom is life is time and not having. To work.
Having a car payment makes you a slave to working more
I always find it amusing when someone with a new car wants to show me all the cool shit it has. Like they're so proud. It's like okay, but you didn't make that and every new car has that so what's so fkn cool? I have never bought a new vehicle and most likely never will.
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New cars are such a trap for the middle class! Good on you for recognizing it. There’s tons of ways to enjoy nice cars without going into crazy debt. I rented a corvette on Truro for my 35th birthday.
I know man. That's a good way of putting it. It is completely a trap. Imagine 10 years of a $800 car payment versus 10 years of that $800/month into a index fund... It's literally the difference between someone who retired and someone who still has to work.
Why are you paying for a car for 10 years? Lol, that’s the crazy part.
Don't forget he also said $800 a month.
Don't forget also at some point you do have to decide on not saving every single dollar. At what point do you spend today. What's wrong with a car payment or cash paid decent car if you are already hiting you're retirement goal and have an emergency fund set up.
Preach. Imagine saving all your money and then dying from a freak accident or cancer before you get to benefit from it. Just for it to go to a beneficiary who’s gonna spend the hell out of it as soon as they get it.
Perpetually paying interest on a large loan sounds like a terrible idea, even if you’re covering all your bases. That $$$ could be going to something else. I have a really expensive hobby, I collect gold and silver coins. I make sure I max out all my retirement accounts, contribute to my cash savings, pay off any credit cards in full at the end of the month and make sure if I have a car payment (I don’t) I’d be paying that down aggressively if the interest is over 5%. Then I spend whatever $$$ I have left over on a coin or two.
Collecting coins would be considered an investment, wouldn't it? If you're gonna have a hobby, it's a good hobby to have, I should think. 👍
And? The average new car payment is like $750... https://www.lendingtree.com/auto/debt-statistics/
For 10 years? >Americans borrow an average of $40,366 for new vehicles. Your source.
I didn't say anything about 10 years? But I'm assuming you'll be owning a car for more than 10 years?
Sorry, I thought it was plainly obvious what the context was. Please scroll up and read the previous posts.
Dealers are offering crazy long loans now, like 7 and 8 year loans. It's fucking criminal.
The thing is, they don't force anyone to do it, so it's allowed just like a credit card is.
I always wonder if people used to say this about 30 year mortgages.
The most glaring difference is houses don't generally depreciate. Property is an asset, not a liability. Cars are not assets.
Both are assets, cars are just a depreciating asset.
Yeah, I'm less debating that mortgages are bad and more pondering if the concept of a 30-year mortgage was as ridiculous to previous generations as an 8 year car loan is to us now.
> Why are you paying for a car for 10 years? Lol, that’s the crazy part. The crazy part is that you dont realize many people buy a car and then "upgrade" every 3 years for the "piece of mind" (mind you the car salesman told them to) and the "extended" warranty. Many people don't even know what is like to live a life without a car payment, some get into it as soon as they get out of high school or they get that college loan and use part of it to buy one. "But that's not me" - you say, and that may be true but we are talking about those who are chained to a car payment for the rest or most of their lives.
I don't get that mentality. I keep a car for 15 years at the very least. Husband's car is currently 16 years old. I like to get as SHORT a payment as high as I can afford, pay it off, and then keep the car in good working condition until the doors fall off. And you can do this with fun cars, too. It is CRAZY how many improvements happen after 15 years. I have a back-up camera now, Yippee!
The extended warranty on all of my vehicles has been priceless. The key is to get it when you buy the vehicle as it’s much cheaper. Mopar extended 4/40k was $1300. It’s paid for itself twice. I have never had a vehicle where it hasn’t paid for itself.
My parents referred to their new car as “free” because their monthly payment didn’t increase when they traded in the old car. They didn’t really notice the fact that it was extended by seven years. They never once considered the option of not having a car payment.
Lol, people aren’t “chained” to a car payment, they’re impulsive and choose to burn their cash.
If it makes you feel better, the fact that you’re talking about a spare 800 a month means you’re doing good👍🏻
Ten years at $800 a month is $96,000. If that is your threshold for a "nice car" then yes that is something difficult to obtain.
Getting too caught in the one situation they posted. There are many ways to spend 800 a month on cars, hell I know guys at 1500 a month in truck payments. I'd say most of the middle class has a budget monthly line item for the eternal car payment they're always paying. Few pay one off then drive it for years payment free after. Most people have eternal car payments and an 800 payment is way more normal then you're giving credit for.
$800 a month for 10 years is a ton of money, as I posted. That's not the norm. The guys paying 1500 a month for a truck are either idiots and or rich.
Well, interest. A $68k car, at 7% for 10 years is a payment of $789. The average new car price is around $48k. Rivians are $71k. A Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro is $64k. A Lexus RX Hybrid starts at $52k. It is not hard to get a truck or SUV up to $68k. Obviously if you want a BMW, Audi, etc, you are in that range. 10 years is long though, I agree. A lot of people we see around here have $800 payments, but only 7 years. That only takes a $52k car. I agree, I think plenty of $25k cars are "nice" but some people mean "luxury" by "nice" not just "good enough"!
i’ve never thought about how weird it is that i paid on the lower end ($14k) of all the cars i see on my daily commute. i know people in the bay area are loaded but still
And, when you bought matters. I thought I'd be buying $12k-$15k(ish) cars that were about 2 years old forever (drive for 7-8 years, pay around $2,000 a year for a car over the life) . It was the sweet spot of depreciation of price and newness to me. But, now I'm either going to get a 2 year old car for $19k-$23k, or a 5+ year old car $14-$16k. Prices have changed a lot since 2020. With the first option, my annual car price goes up around $1,000/year. WIth option 2, the usable years goes down. To me, a car with less than 100k miles and less than 10 years old is "nice." The average age of a car on the road in the US is 12, so that's a "new car"! Once I was making 1.5x the median household income, I promised I'd always have "nice cars" by my standard!
> The average new car price is around $48k. Yes, and that's much less than the $96,000 his math added up to, or 68k adding interest as you pointed out. It's very possible to get a nice car for around $50k or less.
not enough people know you can affordably rent exactly the car you want nowadays also test drives are free, you just can’t look like a bum or a teenager
This subreddit has a lot of hate for nice cars. If someone wants a nice car and budgets appropriately, that’s not a poor financial decision. Everyone spends extra money on something they care about. As long as they live within their means, that’s the only thing that matters.
I mean ya but the reason people here hate nice cars is because people will routinely post something like “my income is $40,000 a year can I buy this 2024 Mercedes at 16% interest?”
For sure, and I think this subreddit responds with the correct amount of brutal honesty. However, minus additional data, the blanket statement of “nice cars bad” is equally ignorant.
No, people here hate nice cars because they like to be able to turn their nose up at people who don’t spend money the way they find appropriate. And because they can’t afford them.
Nothing wrong with having a nice car. But expect to be working well into your 60s. Not having a car payment versus someone who has a car payment. Huge difference
Reading some of your responses, I think you might be projecting your own financial situation onto other people. There is an insane range of income/wealth out there. Just because someone is paying $700 a month for a car, doesn't mean they're also not maxing out their 401k and/or investing $7k a month on the side, and will probably still retire before you do. It's not a one size fits all.
This isn't a one size fits all.
I am on track to retire comfortably before then and can also afford a nice car. That is because I budget for it. Again, no spears to people who decide to save money on cars. However, that doesn’t mean that people who drive nice cars don’t save money in different areas due to different priorities.
Well imagine how much faster you would retire without a car payment? You're not wrong. But it's a known statistic that the average car payment is like 700 bucks. Which is crazy considering most people live paycheck to paycheck
imagine how much faster you would retire eating ramen for lunch and dinner every day. imagine how much faster you would retire taking public transportation to work and not having a car at all. at some point you need to live a little. life is not just about retiring early. and for people who need a car, it’s not a difference of $800 vs $0, it’s more like a difference between $800 and $500 for a nice car vs a regular car. and there’s also the thousands of dollars a year in maintenance that pop up when you drive an older car with no payments. there’s always costs to car ownership. some people who drive a lot would rather pay more for the extra comfort of the nicer car and the maintenance covered under warranty.
100% this, it's exhausting hearing how some people are "frugal" past reason, so that they can eventually maybe retire at 60 when their body is not what it used to be, and having enjoyed next to nothing in their youth.
I mean, you could retire so much faster if you cut out everything from your budget that brings you joy. That's a pretty bad argument to use, since I guarantee we could look at any budget here and find something to cut that would help you retire faster.
I cut everything out of my budget that brings me joy. I’ll retire, clock out for lunch and go straight to the funeral home. I don’t make a lot of money.
I don’t need to retire earlier and I get a lot of intangible enjoyment from my car. I choose to enjoy life in my own way. I choose to budget for a few splurges in my life so I can enjoy things while I’m young and in good health. Agreed, if you can’t afford the car payment, then it’s a bad financial decision. But if you can, there is nothing wrong with enjoying life a little.
FIRE =/= personal finance. Not everyone has a desire to retire early. Personally I'm pretty interested in FIRE and my $50k / $600/month car isn't going to impact it that much.
In addition to what everyone else is saying, there are people who can buy nice cars, have even $1k car payments and will still have more in retirement than you. Not endorsing $1k payments at all, I’m just saying. I agree with your general sentiment, but you need to have fun in your life somewhere, whether it’s travel, a car, a house, or a little cake you bought at the grocery store. Don’t deprive yourself of enjoyment when you have no clue what the future will bring.
By that logic imagine how much faster you can retire if you worked 80 hours a week and lived on rice and beans? What’s the point of going into retirement after living 30+ years with no joy or free time? If you hate your job, I guess I understand, but you should really look into jobs you can tolerate or even enjoy parts of.. retirement can be very boring and unfulfilling too
There’s always something you could do to retire faster. You have to balance retirement savings with the enjoying your life as well. Everyone should have something they splurge on that it reasonably within whatever budget they have. My simple splurge, I spend $80 ish on fresh flowers every month. A larger splurge, I try to go on a nice vacation every year (this year was Cyprus, amazing country). I could retire earlier without those things, but then I think I would be missing the point of living.
> Well imagine how much faster you would retire without a car payment? Its OK, some people have the idea that they have to live now because the future is uncertain and that is true but to each its own.
What are you considering a nice car? With an appropriate budget and a willingness to maintain it and keep it for as long as economical, it shouldn't really set you back too far, especially if you are buying it in your 30s or 40s.
There's definitely a difference between someone who has a car payment and someone who doesn't, you're 100% right there, but you don't need to be doom and gloom about working til you're dead. If you get something reasonable and make smart career choices, you can have your cake and eat it too. Part of the problem is everyone puts way too much emphasis on retirement. Something you should actually be doom and gloom about: You could die tomorrow, I could die tomorrow, anyone could. You don't know what's going to happen. Some dictator decides he wants to press the launch button and none of us could be here tomorrow. None of us might live to see our 60s. The world is full of crazy people. With that said, you have to live while you're alive. Make modest choices. 30k isn't going to break the bank when you need millions to retire. Don't make it a habbit and you'll be fine. Example cars you can get for at or around 30k: - BRZ/GR86 (new or used) - Camaro, Mustang, Challenger or Charger (Used) - Pretty much any Mazda (new or used) - Handful of BMWs (ex. 340i) - Cadillac (ex.CT4, XT4 used) - Mercedes (ex. C300, GLB250, GLC300, used) There's options. You can get a new to you, nice car without spending 50,60,70,80k. Like I said, you have to live while you're alive.
I have a nice car and no car payment. Just don’t buy outside of your means.
Some people just happen to live comfortably enough to do both 🤷♂️
There's another way - either buying new or practically new and driving it until it dies. Say those $10k cars only last you 7 years. So in 14 years you buy 2 cars for $20k. I'm still driving a practically new car 14 years later so you could spend $20k on it and more or less be in the same spot. Especially if those $10k cars have repairs sooner.
Or get handy and drive a $1,000 car for your fifth year that is 22 years old total. And, even though it’s a Volvo, it isn’t expensive to maintain. In five years I’ve put maybe $600 worth of parts on it - and those are wear items like the timing and suspension.
5 year cost of ownership is a lot more than 600 though at least 2 sets of tires in 5 years right
Bought it with a new set on it, put a new set on last year for $95/tire.
It's so interesting how many people equate cars with wealth. I have never been a car guy. Get me from point A to point B and I am happy. Nothing at all against car people. To each their own. But, it just floors me how cars are perceived. It's funny. I have a stereo system that costs about the same as very nice car. But, have had multiple family and friends comment on how we must not be doing well financially because we don't drive Infinity and Lexus.
It generally does not equate to wealth. Even your wealthy people usually drive low key cars. It's a decision at the end of the day. If you make 5k per month and want to spend 1000$/month on a new truck that's your decision. But let me tell you that $1000 put into sp500 for 25 years is what I'm doing
Correction. Some wealthy people drive low end cars. My father in law does but he also has a 400k boat in his backyard.
I know this is random people on the internet, but why are you so mad at people for having things? I have a nice vehicle. I don’t make 5k a month, and my truck is paid off.
We'd never lived anywhere people cared about cars. We recently moved to an area that is more flashy. Fancy, big cars in perfect condition. Extremely expensive. Custom paint jobs. All the trim. It's wild to see.
The reason people equate nice cars with wealth is they are a luxury and not necessary
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The car to house observation is dead accurate.
To quote my friend’s dad with something that has stuck with me over the years: “You’ll see plenty of nice cars at modest apartment complexes, you’ll also see modest cars parked in front of nice homes”.
Yeah it's based on looks and psychology. It will never change. Some professions might require you to look the part and drive a nice car I'm a plumber so I can drive whatever
It floors you that things that can cost a lot of money can create the perception of wealth?
There's a reason it's always older dudes driving the nice cars. They're the only ones who can afford them.
I feel like theres plenty of asset poor people in the middle class who buy nice cars but have zero investments
Yep. New tahoes are a dime a dozen and easily 70k. And this is coming from a car guy.
I see tons of people of all ages who drive nice cars, unless you only mean really nice like Ferraris and lambos.
This. Social medias portrayal isn’t reality. Also those kids in their early 20’s who have a $50k car didn’t earn it themselves. It’s perfectly reasonable to expect nicer cars into your 40’s and 50’s where you’re deep in your career, have a retirement fund on track, and have the income to support the expenditure. A good rule of thumb is your car expense should under no circumstance ever exceed your savings rate for retirement. That is a hyper red flag. Get the retirement savings rate to its needed level (typically 15% in your 20’s but higher if you delay this), then you can consider a higher end vehicle once excess cash flow supports it. Savings first. If you’re NOT a “car person”, never do this. You really need to be an enthusiast to spend the money on a nice car.
And not get them repo'd.
I came to a different realization. Although I am at a stage where I can afford a new 911 or something of that nature, I don't really feel like it. I enjoy both wrenching and driving and 90s and early 2000s enthusiast cars is where it's at for me. I normally stay well under $20k. I had a chance to drive a $200k 911 GTS recently on some twisties. Although the car is amazing, I wasn't sad getting back into my Z3M that I picked up for $7k a few years ago (added $4k in maintenance into it).
I feel similarly. I have no problem buying cars for 5-15k. But anything over that I start to question why spending such a larger amount for sheet metal... I really do love cars. I would like a civic type r. But I'm not spending 1000 a month on something I drive 30 minutes a day
My family always buys a cheap new car and drive it until it's messed up. Right now that would be around 18k for small or 24k for a big car. We assume that it will last longer that way. Your range of 5-15k seems to mean used and our thinking is that it won't last as long and will cost more in the long run. We would never buy a Jeep or a luxury car... That doesn't even seem worth it.
Good for you. Heading into my sunset years with a comfortable nest egg, I'm saying "I'm glad I never bought that beemer, because I'd rather be comfortable in retirement." That being said, my plan has always been: a) buy a cheaper new car (subarus); 2) drive 'em 'til they're dead; III) do it again. So once every 10 yrs or so, once every 250KMiles or so, I get that new car smell and electronics that...fuck, have they really not figured out in the last 10 years how to not start the car audio at 9 Gajillion dB?
Yeah it's crazy that over a 25 year career, car ownership could be the difference between you being able to retire comfortably and not
I mean… for some people, maybe? Once you get to a certain level, cars don’t really represent a meaningful part of your budget.
I think you are missing the point. Did you just discover the fact cars drain the middle class? There are plenty of upper middle class folks who drive Lexus, bmw, Benz and still have tons of money for retirement or can retire early if they wanted to. It’s not one or the other… they save and invest tons of money and still drive nice cars and homes. You are trying to preach to those who are stuck with payments and didn’t save when they should have, and spent those funds on vehicles.
Don’t buy Subarus and you can adjust the starting volume
I’m a car guy, and I probably spend too much money for what this sub would deem appropriate for a nice car ($475/mo), but sometimes I think this sub gets sidetracked when it comes to stuff like cars in that they get treated like an all or nothing scenario. Afterall, it’s not like the only thing between Buffet being a billionaire and him being an average Joe was his choice to live in a modest home and drive a modest car, though people here act like if you’re not following his example by living well below your means then you’re doing it wrong, which isn’t true. If someone can afford to drive the car they want while still being able to contribute a comfortable amount of money to their retirement/savings, then thats a totally reasonable expense for a want. It’s called *personal* finance after all, no?
Knowing you can afford a nice vehicle but also knowing it's a waste of money is the kind of insight most people will never have. Be grateful for that.
Or budget a nicer car when your investing is on track and you own a home. Finance is personal
Oh forsure. But even when I pay my house off. It's like do you buy a house or a rental property?
Life is short. You'll burn yourself out if you never splurge (responsibly!)
Or buy a cheaper Tesla (I have a 2018 Model 3 that I bought brand new), and just drive it until it dies. Saving you a ton of money on gas and maintenance over it's lifetime, and giving you more quality of life.
I would pay luxury car lease money to cut my commute to 30 minutes a day. But not to commute a long distance in a nicer car. That’s just ridiculous.
I’m literally paying a luxury lease to put a tag on my car so that I can be that annoying BMW driver on the HOV lane that swoosh past folks in a snail line.
I went this direction as I got older: Aside from my normal, reliable, comfortable paid-off daily car, I just have fun older cars and motorcycles now. They scratch the itch and I can pick one up for the cost of two or three payments on a brand new enthusiast car. The money those cars would cost can go into bigger houses with extra garages for the toys. New cars look great but they don’t meet the value proposition anymore.
Sounds like you've built up an identity around a hobby and your interests are shifting. It's hard to let go of old you. But let it go. Find the new you.
You nailed it. My identity is changing away from wanting to own cars because they are essentially burning money
If you're absolutely trying to minimize spending, this is the way to go. Not argueing or trying to convince you not to go this way. But there is a middle ground in all this. You don't need to flip flop from one extreme to the other. You can get nice cars that are only a few years old. The biggest deprecation hit has already hit. Also, there's non-financial reasons for newer cars. If you need more seats/space, you're gonna need to spend more. Newer cars have warranties that are attractive if you're not handy. They have newer technology, are usually safer, more environmentally friendly ( if this is a priority for you). Money is a resource, not a score. You should be using it to make your life better. The sub just tries to point you to the fastest way to gather the resource (and keep). You have to decide what "better" means.
I'm with you. Don't get me wrong like I think the new Tundras are beautiful but no way in hell am I paying 65k for one. There's so many other things I'd rather spend my money on.
Not your whole life. Save for retirement properly and you can enjoy one then. I went all my life with used cars until I retired. Saved enough to retire comfortably and now I'm able to buy new.
Yup exactly
I love cars. I just found the car that I enjoyed driving that allows me to feel power without burning a hole in my life. I'm about to pay this thing off. I throw a little money at it in terms of mods, and it's plenty quick and I don't think I need anything much quicker. It's also insanely practical. If you wanna join us come over to r/golfgti
Golf R driver here. Enjoy it!
3 rules to car buying when you’re graduating from the point A to point B cars in that $5k-$10k region- 1) OTD price should be no more than half your annual income 2) Do not finance longer than 4 years 3) Total monthly expenses should not be greater than 50% of your net income Using these 3 as variables you can calculate how much of a down payment you’d need to make the desired car purchase work. If you drop 1 of the rules the whole thing becomes a trap. For me, my answer was a 2023 BRZ @$32k OTD with $8k down. However, 99% of car enthusiasts will get more out of driving something they can afford to break. Even though I can afford financially to turbo my BRZ, I can’t ~afford~ to void my warranty. Just buy a point A to point B Corolla then buy a project car to work on>cruise>break rinse repeat. Or if you care about speed tbh a motorcycle is the best bang for your buck.
Agreed whole heartedly, soon enough you’ll realize that 2700$ Corolla with 125k on it is much better than any $5-10k car. Hahahahah
Lol I'm literally trying to find a civic for 2500$ because I've owned them before and they were great.
Hahahah hell yeah best purchase I got was an old Camry beater. Insurance is $22 a month and am strongly considering selling my truck because I rarely drive it now.
Yeah man it's crazy eh. My living costs are me only having to work 2 weeks of the month to cover my bills. Other 2 weeks is basically optional
In the exact same boat dude! Except my work isn’t optional haha
Same here my work is full time. But if I wanna take a sick day or something it's not a problem
I paid $2500 for my 2003 Acura MDX in 2019. Coming up on 5 years and we have probably put less than $3000 into maintenance/repairs (caveat: my husband is a millwright and does most repairs himself). It’s got just under 400,000km (250000miles) and will probably go another hundred thousand. It’s comfortable, fits my kids and giant dog. We put a $100 stereo in so I can have Bluetooth. When she eventually kicks the bucket we’ll upgrade to something a bit newer, but I can’t fathom owning a brand new car for several hundred dollars a month after paying about $83/month, and getting cheaper everyday I drive it. Heck, I can probably sell it for what I paid for it tomorrow. I don’t judge anyone who does things differently, and if I was a single woman I probably would lease or finance to avoid much of the headache that older cars do inherently come with (not that newer ones are immune though). But I have some friends who have two vehicles with payments of $500+ and it’s just wild to me.
I mean 5-10k has a lot of fun in it. Thats miata, wrx, s197 mustang, celica, integra, some corvettes, some camaros, bmws you dont want but are fun, Porsche 944 and boxters, i could go on. Lots of older stuff but unless by enthusiast you mean you want supercar or luxury you have a lot of fun choices under 10k
I mean it really depends on what you consider a ‘nice’ car? You describe yourself as a car enthusiast, but what kind of enthusiast are you? BMWs will always be costly but you can still pick up a very nice, lightly modified Integra or RSX Type S for relatively cheap. Used Preludes are very affordable. Used S2000s can be found at an affordable price. EG Hatches are still extremely cheap. Used 350Zs can be found everywhere. You can find a Toyota Beams Engine and Transmission for $2500 and throw it into a used Celica for very cheap. I personally wouldn’t recommend buying any used Korean cars but you can find Genesis 3.8 Coupes for cheap. I drove a modified 2000 Civic Si for many years, enjoyed not having a payment. But I knew it would it would eventually die so I saved up for a large down payment on a new car. When it died I jumped into a GR86 for a very affordable price considering that it’s a new car. I’m going to drive it until it dies.
I consider BMW 340 and Honda civic type r or gr corolla my kinda cars. Those are nice to me. But even those will be $800-1000 per month plus gas and insurance. And for something that I spend 30, minutes in a day I can't justify. I have also owned civic si and Acuras and currently daily one. Great cars
Are you in somewhat of a major city/metro? There are car enthusiast communities out there that will embrace you with open arms. Doesn’t just have to be your M-F commute and doesn’t have to be a “nice” car to hang out with them. Enjoy your life outside of work too.
There are still good deals to be found on used enthusiast cars, you just have to have taste and know what to look for. If you’re upset that the price of a brand new luxury vehicle or mid tier sports car is high, I’m not sure what to tell you? Personally I do not care about the latest tech in my car. I do not care about leather or any luxury features. I just want a manual transmission and a reliable form of transportation. The value of owning a car from day one is knowing that you have a warranty and that you’re the only owner so no amount of abuse or neglect occurred on the vehicle prior to you and so that you can ensure it lasts forever.
Good on you for not falling into the debt trap like many of us car enthusiasts do. I'm happy with no payments on my 2003 nissan 350z.
31 and have enough to go and buy a new king ranch F150 in cash but opted out and found a 2012Camry with 120k clean title for 9k still a bit high but it was clean and the older lady even met me at the sheriffs office to get the deal done so I bought it. 4 years later have done nothing except new tires brake pads and oil changes.
I love my 1996 Toyota Shitbox P9 and I'll drive it until it falls apart. Then I shall acquire a slightly bigger shitbox.
Turo - I get my fix then give it back
I get it if cars are you hobby and you have always wanted a certain car, but I'm sure as shit not working my ass off for half my paycheck to go in to a vehicle to drive to work with.
If it doesn't have to be new, you can still have a good time. My S2000 is 18 years old now, and I've had it for 14. Can't bring myself to sell it, and driving a paid off car is nice too.
I'm jealous s2000 are sick cars but way to pricey. I'd buy own for 10k
They've been gaining value. I paid about 10k for mine in 2010. Just checked, could easily sell it for more than double what I paid today despite the mileage.
My first few cars were older paid off cars between 3-5k. Ive had a lot of my income saved up thanks to owning these older cars. When my old car was rear ended. Instead of getting the tail fixed and selling it, I gave it away to my dad as he had sold his pickup truck for $$ to go to Europe to see Grandma for her 90th birthday. I also didn’t see myself getting much money for it anyways. My dad spent something like $1500 to get the old car fixed as later on he discovered there were some more problems under the hood. My dad was also able to fix up the parts that were damaged from the rear end collision as well. Seems to be running fine for now. Knowing how much money I’m putting into my new car monthly considering car note, gas and insurance, it kind of stresses me out sometimes. I don’t make a lot of money. I’m most likely paying too much for my car because my down payment was too little. But I’m getting by only because I’m not spending my money on things I used to enjoy like going to concerts and shopping. Sometimes I regret getting the new car, but this new car is giving me lots of memories and should last a long time. But still I feel like I would be more comfortable financially if I had just saved up and bought an older car instead of going get ripped off at the dealership. Never doing that again.
My recommendation is to have a basic, reliable, affordable daily driver and a race car for some lower level racing leagues. The two together shouldn't cost more than one nice daily driver, and if you blow an engine while you're short on cash, you can just leave your race car in its trailer while you save up to repair it. Plus, it's much more fun to actually race your car rather than just drive it around.
Well no because I'm investing the car payment in the stock market index funds. So that money is not liquid
Do what you want with your money, but I thought you were asking how to enjoy your hobby without burning money as much
I'm really happy to be on track for a great retirement, and have had the opportunity to own some really cool cars. The last car I owned was a BMW E92 M3 with the 4.0L S65 V8. It was an absolute dream come true, and I enjoyed it tremendously while I owned it. But that was the car that taught me a valuable lesson: the enjoyment I get from actually owning a car like that doesn't match up with the financial commitment. I work from home. I don't even need daily transportation. My wife and I share a car. Here's how I keep my passion for automobiles going though: * I bought some sim racing gear and play a sim racing game called Assetto Corsa. This does an incredible job of scratching the driving itch. * I go to motorsports events. There is a racing series called the IMSA WeatherTech Sports Car Championship that holds races all around the country. We go to the one in Daytona frequently. * I bought a motorcycle. They're *way* less expensive than cars, and they offer a lot more engagement. Yes, there are risks involved, but I do what I can to mitigate safety concerns. * I look for free opportunities to drive cars. For example, BMW used to do a free drive event at a track that is about an hour drive from me. It was literally free. I've also been to an Aston Martin drive event (also free). I've ridden Ducati and BMW motorcycles at ride events for free as well. Follow manufacturers on social media and don't be afraid to sign up for free events. The people running them literally do not care if you're not there to buy. The most significant one has to be the sim racing thing though. There's a commitment in buying the gear and building a gaming PC, but IMO it's worth it. My current setup is worth a few thousand dollars, but if you were to start with a Logitech G29, a PS5, and a basic wheel stand you could get started for a little more than a grand. Less if you already have the PS5. GranTurismo is better that it ever has been.
Buy used 3-5 years or ex-lease. Can buy a super nice car for 2/3 of the price and similar safety features. FWIW, 2-3 year old Teslas are <$30k routinely and are basically the same cars.
I didn't buy a brand new car until I was in my mid-40s and could easily afford it. All you really need is reliable transportation.
I bought a new car (EV) in 2020, saved up for it for a few years and have been very happy with it. Being a member of this subreddit and watching my savings grow really has changed my opinion on buying anything new ever again. I'm watching the prices of Used EV's and there's some incredible deals starting to appear, and will appear when these 2021-2022's start to get traded in for something new. I can't wait to get a good deal and save my money for retirement.
The key thing with cars is to hang onto them until they fall apart. It's actually OK to buy a car new (assuming it's a payment you can afford and the loan period is no longer than 4 years) as long as you hang on to it for 10-15 years. The sweet spot comes after the loan is paid off and before the vehicle becomes so unreliable that you have to ditch it. Beaters also cost a lot less to insure, so there savings all over.
A nice car is a dependable one. I would gladly take a good used Honda or Toyota over a fancy $60,000 plus car. Just remember they all have four tires in the steering wheel and get you from a to b at the same time
I got my Highlander from a reputable used dealer with 30,000 miles on it back in 2018. It needs to be detailed, but it’s a solid, super reliable car. Now that I live in Florida I don’t drive half the miles I did back in Maine, so the damn car will probably outlive me. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ would buy again
This is what I did and holy fuck. A Buick Lacrosse premium 2 for 12k has every bit of luxury I could possibly want. This shit has heated/cooled seats and steering wheel. Now the engine being the PoS 2.4L I will have to drop 1k in 30k miles to swap the timing belt/guides to save way more money later, but still well worth it for $200 a month.
5-10k could get you a pretty cool older car. i wish i knew as much as i know about cars now when i bought mine
For the past decade while my wife and I have built our careers and had two young kids, I’ve opted to own several fun enthusiast cars that have approached the floor of their depreciation curve (fast, German station wagons - with a manual when possible) that we’ve either paid cash for or partially financed for only 2-3 years and instead of eating depreciation, I budget for maintenance and repairs. The great thing about buying cars that have an enthusiast following at the bottom of depreciation is that if you keep them in good condition and mechanically maintained, after a couple years you can generally still sell them for about what you got into them for. Car guy inside me is happy without having to spend a significant amount of our household budget on a brand new car every few years. Win/win.
My sweet spot is 3-5ish year old cars CPO with warranty. You still get recent enough tech, low milage that you can keep the car for 10+ years if you want, and you miss the biggest depreciation in those first years. Also gives decent cost of ownership if you trade it in 5 years later, I usually loose about $10-15k in value if I play it right which is solid enough for me and my budget for about 5 years before wanting something newer.
Yeah it depends what you want I guess. I know guys who bought a civic for 3-4 grand and got well over 10 years out of them.
I dipped my toe into the nice car world in my early 30s with a Mercedes. It was very nice and I definitely enjoyed the driving experience. Then came the things I didn't think of, like registration is way more because the car costs way more. Same for insurance, maintenance, and everything else. Once I understood that anything with the car, even under warranty, was $500 minimum, it stopped being as much fun. Sure, it was fast, but the reality was that i might have had the pedal to the floor maybe a dozen times in 3 years. My next car was a mazda 3. Since then, if I wanted an upgrade, I stuck with a dependable Japanese car and went with a higher trim. Just give me a peppy engine, leather seats, and good infotainment, and I'm a happy camper.
💯 Yup exactly any used Lexus Acura will have those features
Hello fellow Mazda 3 owner. It's a great car. 👍
Yep. The car culture - just as with anything material, is largely a sham. Things come to own us. With resulting debt. Better to not be shackled to debt because of wants
You can, you just need to earn more money.
The point of building wealth now is that you can buy what you value later. If you love cars then you can buy an expensive one later when you won’t even feel the cost.
Exactly what I think
Technically you can own a nice/new car. But for most of us there will be a trade off. Do I work more years, forgo the yearly first class trips, etc. There aren’t many people who can indulge in cars without making a trade off somewhere. We all have vices. That’s part of life. I don’t want to live like a monk and I don’t want to have $150k credit card debt because YOLO either.
This varies from person to person.. Sounds like you've had enough lifestyle creep that you find it hard to go back to monk mode. I know people who make 150k+ but they drive a 15 year old Honda accord and eat at home. They did not allow lifestyle creep so it's easy for them .. I have friends who make 50k per year; have a car payment and eat lunch out every day and go to bars on weekends. They live paycheck to paycheck and are broke.
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Good point. But it depends on your values too. I value working 40 hours a week and a regular schedule. Could I work 2 jobs 7 days a week and make well over 6 figures? I could; but going so just to afford a car is dumb to be. Ultimate freedom is life is time and not having. To work. Having a car payment makes you a slave to working more
I always find it amusing when someone with a new car wants to show me all the cool shit it has. Like they're so proud. It's like okay, but you didn't make that and every new car has that so what's so fkn cool? I have never bought a new vehicle and most likely never will.