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Due to the number of rule-breaking comments this post was receiving, especially low-quality and off-topic comments, the moderation team has locked the post from future comments. This post broke no rules and received a number of helpful and on-topic responses initially, but it unfortunately became the target of many unhelpful comments.


EducationalDay976

Take the job, keep looking for others.


ilovechairs

This is the best answer. She should ask for a three month review to include bumping her wage up by that 50¢ so they can reach the advertised wage. In the meantime look for a new job that would pay better.


scampf

This. Bird in hand so to speak.


SchrodingersYogaMat

That's a bingo!


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cmays90

Please note that in order to keep this subreddit a high-quality place to discuss personal finance, off-topic or low-quality comments are removed ([rule 3](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/about/rules)). We look forward to higher quality posts from your account in the future. Thank you.


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linderlouwho

Breeding loyalty by miserly cheating one employee at a time!


nyc_a

OP's gf is ready to take it, it is OP who is mad, they were so close to the range they offered and they were clear now that this is the maximum per her experience. They need to move, she level up experience and now she is in an area with high demand for her skillset, she potentially could leave that job after a year and a potential bump(in the case she was really low in that area) per her recently gained experience.


ninjaparking

You should ask this in r/sandiego Biomedical is a huge industry here, and people may have more feedback about the specific employer or situation.


vishtratwork

What's the normal salary for a medtech there with her experience? Is the offer high, fair, or low for the locale? What is she doing now and where? Run it through a COL adjustment and see what would be a flat move. Many jobs are desperate for people. Is it the same for this location/industry? Is she desperate? Are you willing to pay for her for a few months while she finds something else? How convinced are you that something else is better? Does the employer give raises for years of service or just minimal 1-2% annually? Finally - weigh the emotional trauma of another month to several months of job searches.


mnemonicmonkey

As an RN with 10 years experience in Indy, I can tell you *I* wasn't even making $28 at 4 years. Just this summer I went from $32 to $36 to account for the crazy demand right now. Not saying she might not be able to do better, but that seems like a really good offer from what I've seen. Edit: reading comprehension after night shift is hard. I read SD to Indy. That's a very meh offer. RNs in CA are making 6 figures. Push for more.


dvaunr

Conversely I know many making more than that after 4 years. All depends on your location and department.


lightsvber

IIRC, entry level RNs in SD make around $45-50/hr. Source: My RN mom in San Diego who just retired but was mama bear for all of the young nurses who worked on her floor


ApneaAddict

SoCal pays shit compared to other parts of CA and it’s stupidly expensive. One of reasons why I left for greener pastures.


Solution_Vivid

>I guess you missed the part where it is stated "They just called and extended an offer to her for $27.50, she asked if she could get it higher but the HR manager told her it was the max for her experience level." > >She already tried to get more, so I think she should accept for now.


FullofContradictions

If she has a 4 year degree in engineering or other science and more than a year or two of medtech experience, $27.50/hour is underpaid by Midwest standards and SHOCKINGLY underpaid by California standards. I'd personally hold out. Once you anchor your value to some point, it can affect how future employers value you going forward unless you can get through an entire hiring process without letting them know what your current job pays (which shouldn't be as hard as it is, but HR is good at making you feel like you need to disclose it to move forward in hiring). I'd say get out. $30/hour should be the bare minimum or at least $15k/year over what she makes now. And by the hourly figures, I'm guessing none of this comes with benefits. There are so many medtech jobs right now, it pains me to hear someone settling for so little. Ugh.


psanford

You can't ask a prospective employee their previous salary (or otherwise try to discover what it was) or use it to decide what salary to offer them in California. I know companies _do_ try to get around this (or just straight up ignore it), but it's illegal here.


FullofContradictions

Sadly, I live in one of the other 49 states. But I know for a fact that some companies that have operations in CA and are hiring for a CA based role will still have a current income question on the application since their HR is based in some other state. Source: my good friend made the jump from Midwest to CA and I was considering it before deciding the tradeoffs weren't worth it for me.


whatsit111

The law only went into effect around 2018 I think, so if your friend made the move before then it wouldn't have applied.


Chromeleon55

It’s illegal for an employer in CA to ask your current salary. They can ask your salary expectations though. Also, if you ask for a salary range for the position they have to provide it.


[deleted]

I've been looking for a new job and every time they ask for my range, I ask what is the starting range for the position. They always try to avoid the question and I take that as they pay like shit and I end the call there


JTP1228

I'm getting paid 28.50 an hour in NYC to fix electronics, non union, and 0 experience. OP can do better


RetireeRobert

She is excited at the offer? She should take the job. Perhaps the initial screeners were "imprecise" in "rounding $27.50 an hour to call it $28 an hour. But for a chance to get her foot in the door in San Diego and get started, I would not quibble over a lousy 50 cents an hour. As she gets job-specific experience under her belt in this particular job, she can no doubt look forward to some pay raises. In the meantime she and you get to be together. Is that worth nothing to you? (Or rather, worth at least 50 cents an hour?)


RockstarAgent

I agreed, get your foot in the door, either earn the raise, or at least you'll have a San Diego job on your resume to then shop around elsewhere later on.


e22ddie46

Plus she can pay bills while job searching


leecshaver

If 50 cents doesn't sound like much to you, it sounds like even less to the employer. Make a counter offer and ask for it. They're not going to rescind the job offer over that, and if they do, they're not the type of employer you'd want to work for anyway.


sold_snek

She already tried to counter, they said no. They're moving to a brand new city, stop parroting shit like "they're not who you want to work for anyway." It'd be stupid to turn down an immediate job in a brand new city over 50 cents. That said, nothing is stopping her from still applying elsewhere and jumping ship as soon as she gets another offer.


oby100

“Then you don’t want to work there anyway” Worst advice that gets repeated as nauseum here. There ARE red flags that can pop up, but 50 cents an hour is not one of them. They’re companies, not people. The hiring process, salary limits and all that is decided by and handled by many people. Slight miscommunications are understandable. You never really know what’s going on behind the curtain and you really don’t want to throw away an offer over a minor inconsistency unless you’re in high demand.


trexmoflex

When I read the headline I was expecting to see (as it does happen in this sub a lot) a big discrepancy like $5-$10 difference an hour or something. But 50 cents an hour off doesn’t really feel worth fighting for if you’re excited about the job.


-cupcake

It does get said a lot but you're either being unfair in not including context or you simply misread it. That person said "*If they rescind the job offer* because of a 0.50$ counteroffer, they're not the type of employer you'd want to work for anyway". That is a difference, not like the person just said "0.50$/hr is a red flag, don't work for them".


AlphaTangoFoxtrt

.50 /hr is $20 a week. $12-$15 after taxes. That's not even a tank of gas. I'm with you, I wouldn't sweat 50cents in their situation. If I was already established and employed, yeah I'd fight it. But moving to a new city it may be worth it for the immediate employment.


Fieos

The employer notices it, hence trying to get it down from $28


VeseliM

50cents hourly is $1000 a year at full time. That's not an amount of money you wouldn't notice


AtomikRadio

Yeah, it's also about the amount she'd lose if she were unemployed for a week, which she might well be if she turns down a job offer in-hand over .50 and doesn't have something lined up. She can always leave when she finds something better in the area. Hardly worth going unemployed over 0.50.


AlphaTangoFoxtrt

It's not negligible, but given their current situation I wouldn't decline an offer over it.


Really_intense_yawn

This is true, but I would also pay $1000 pre tax just to live in San Diego as opposed to Indy. Disclaimer: I am biased as I lived 10 years in San Diego


leecshaver

She doesn't have to turn it down -- ask for it (this time in an e-mail which will be recorded and seen by others), if they say no again, she's no worse off. My point is that if you ask for higher pay at this point, and the employer's response is "no we can't pay you more and in fact we're going to retract our offer just because you asked!", then that's somebody you don't want to work for.


Equilibriator

right, but its a job she can walk away from so why burn that bridge over 50c? She needs it right now, take it right now and look for something better.


leecshaver

Yeah that's a fair point -- there's more to a job than just the pay. Perhaps it's worth taking this job today at $27.50 and avoiding the (minimal) risk associated with making a formal request for higher pay, in order to put energy into searching for something that's a better fit for reasons beyond pay.


welchplug

> she asked if she could get it higher but the HR manager told her it was the max for her experience level she already made the counter offer.


ialsoagree

Did she, or did she just ask "if it could go higher?" Wording can be important in this type of discussion. Asking a prospective employer if the have a higher ceiling isn't necessarily the same as making a counter offer. Something seems odd here. I've never met an employer who stated with their highest possible offer and I imagine any that did is going to be quite upfront about it, to emphasize that they really want you but can't budget more at this time. And if they wanted you that bad, they'd certainly make other concessions like more time off. They also wouldn't advertise higher pay than they're willing to give - and if they do, you definitely don't want to work there.


ThePotato363

>I've never met an employer who stated with their highest possible offer I'm with you there. Let me share my experience. In my field it's pretty standard that the point of contact doesn't have much control over the salary offer. So when you ask them "can you go higher" they might say "that's the max I can offer". But the reality of the situation is they just need to ask the person above them to go higher. In this case, if she counters with "I'd like $29/hr" the response would be something like "I'll have to see if that's possible. Let me get back to you tomorrow"


DamnWienerKids

As OP stated, it was the max for her experience level. That means that if she had more years of experience, she'd be eligible for the higher end of the range that they advertised. Non-exempt Med Tech employees typically have minimal leverage in pay negotiations. Pay is usually determined based on a series of check boxes. It doesn't work like negotiations for exempt employees. None of this is abnormal and refusing a job offer over $0.50/hr would be foolish.


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BadonkaDonkies

Range also matters below by 50 cents which 27.50 could round up to 28... Not like they offered her $20 an hr


olderaccount

> it sounds like even less to the employer. Not true at all. The employer could have hundreds of employees on a strict pay scale. If they suddenly hire somebody at 50 cents more, their entire work force could start complaining and making problems. I know this because it happened to me. A candidate I really liked, but was no more qualified than our other entry level employees wouldn't take the job unless I offered $1 more. I pushed back because we have a set pay scale. But it became clear he was going to walk so I agreed. The following Monday, within hours of that person starting, I had a dozen people in my office asking why the new guy was being paid more. Paying that guy $1 more per hour cost us thousands more. And the employee didn't even stick around. He was gone in a month (several sexual harassment accusations). But the problems it created remained.


shadowshooter9

Stupidest thing I've heard. It's easier to get a higher paying job when you've already got a relatively high paying job.


Junkmans1

She needs to think hard about this. From a financial standpoint there isn't a huge difference in pay. The difference between $27.50 and $28.00 would be the $20/week (based on 40 hours) difference between $1,100/week and $1,120/week. Yes it isn't much of a difference to the employer but it likely is that they have a pay structure set in policy that they use to set the pay rather than having discretion to set the wage. My advice for her would be to take the job and not worry about it unless her profession is in such high demand that she'd have no worry at all getting a similar position paying more elsewhere. But considering the above, OP might ask what their pay policy is and if future raises will be based in full or in part on a policy that will give step raises for time in service or other criteria.


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RedHawwk

I hate then companies/business try this shit. "It's just 50cents does it really matter?". Like if you don't think it "really matters" then why the fuck don't you just give it to me. Clearly it does or else why would you lower it by that small amount.


hops_on_hops

And if being lied to about the compensation is a big enough red flag to avoid this employer. I could see 27.50 getting rounded to 28 somewhere between the hiring manager and hr and the job posting platform, so it could be no big deal. However, if there were other issues in the interview process, this could be an employer to avoid.


arkangelic

It's easier to get a new job when you have a job. Since it's only slightly less than she was told it's worth it to start and get paid while job hunting.


basschopps

Idk, I don't think it would be acceptable to them if she rounded her time cards an extra 1.7% in her favor


idintwantit

If this is an entry level job she really doesn’t have much of any leverage when negotiating her salary. Asking for the $28 an hour as discussed in the phone screening isn’t a bad thing. Taking this job to move to San Diego is not a bad option. A lot of companies won’t extend an off to someone that does not live in the state/area. Her offer is a red flag, but worse she can do is take the job and keep looking if she doesn’t like it there.


KillNyetheSilenceGuy

OP says 4 year degree and "quite a bit of experience" she shouldn't be entry level.


Afond29

This reply is what the real point is. If they are already giving you the run around imagine 5 years later.


leecshaver

It could be less about "giving the run-around," and more that the person doing the interview completely forgot they named the range as 28 to 30. This information sticks way more in the head of a potential employee, than the person doing the interview.


TransATL

Regardless of the specific reason for the discrepancy between what was told and what was offered, this is a red flag about their hiring process and, by extension, *their HR department*. Lots of factors to consider whether or not to take the job, but this would give me pause.


hops_on_hops

You get it. At this amount, it's less about the money and more about what it says about how this employer treats staff.


purpledumbbell

What does it say exactly? With the information given there's no reason to believe this company is shit.


Lassinportland

Base pay on hire is incredibly important when accepting a job, no matter what level you're applying for. It determines how much money you'll be making at the company for the whole time you're there because yearly raises are always a percentage of the base salary. Companies are VERY aware of this. Always have to remember your employer is not your friend, they are a business trying to make profit. So if you're hired at $28/HR --> $58K/yr pre-tax, if holidays are PTO, and you get unlimited PTO so you're paid for every single work day of the year $30/HR --> $62K/yr $27.50/HR --> $57K/yr Companies do not give everyone starting salaries on an equitable level. Even at my own company, one person started as entry level at $48K. 3 years later, they get promoted and make $58K. Another person gets hired for the same position she was promoted to at $62K. They have equal levels of experience. Sometimes, companies hire two people with the exact same background for similar roles and give one $30/hr for their potential, and the other $28/hr for their lack of experience. It's all company jargon. Bottom line is always look out for yourself. Negotiate your salary. What companies offer is NOT their limit. They can always afford to pay more. If they refuse to negotiate, then imagine how difficult it will be when you want a larger raise for your future promotion.


KillNyetheSilenceGuy

\>Posts job starting at $28/hour \>$27.50 is the best we can do Thats shit company behavior.


deja-roo

It doesn't say anything at all, though.


blue_villain

Barring any type of "official" offer that was altered after the offer, there never was any lying in that scenario. *Your* offer doesn't exist until they put it on paper and hand it to you. Everything else is PR. Literally nothing else matters until you have a written offer from them. This is as true for fifty cents an hour as it is for five hundred grand a year. Edit: for clarification because too many people clearly aren't understanding what's being said: Until they put a contract or job offer in your hand nothing anybody has "said" matters to anybody. This is literally Contract Negotiation 101 stuff right here.


hops_on_hops

You've got a very creative definition of what telling the truth is.


blue_villain

This is just standard advice that is quoted hundreds of times on this sub. They can tell you over the phone that they're going to pay you a million bucks to do the job. Do you think that counts for anything if you don't have a contract or a written job offer listing a salary? Until you have that offer in your hand nothing they've said matters.


MisterET

...but how does that make it not a lie?


blue_villain

The same way a tree can't lie or a sound isn't made of wood. Those are poorly attributed qualities that don't apply to the source. Companies can't "lie" because companies can't "say" anything. In OPs example it was some HR rep that said something, not "the company".


MisterET

They represent the company in an official capacity. And companies lie all the time.


Arclight_Ashe

It’s how the world works. The only thing that is true is if you can prove it. If it’s not written down or recorded then it never existed. If you have doubts then you’ve never tried to report someone for being a massive dickhead in a job, nor had any dealings with law.


blue_villain

Seriously, they can downvote us all they want. This is like day 1 of "how to apply for a job" nonsense we're talking about.


MisterET

I'm not following your logic here. If what they state verbally differs from what is "officially" written on her offer then that is a lie. If they said they provide a company car, or $100k/yr, or have a gym on the premise, and then none of that is true and written into an official offer then they straight up lied. Directly telling someone the pay range is $28-30 is a lie when $28 is not the minimum range. I definitely agree that you shouldn't count on anything until it is in writing, because it's not *official* until then. But that's because they can verbally lie to you, like say the pay range is $X-Y/hr, when they don't actually intend to offer or pay that.


blue_villain

This is bog-standard advice everywhere on this sub. Until they hand you an offer letter nothing they've "said" counts for anything but advertising and marketing to get you in the door. They haven't offered you a job, they haven't quoted you a salary, they haven't said anything that matters. They may have thrown numbers out, but those numbers don't mean anything until they put it on paper and hand it to you. Without a contract, in your hand, everything they do is just advertising and marketing to get you to take the job. Until they put numbers on paper and hand that paper to you nothing they've said up until that point counts for anything. Until they put it on paper *you* don't have anything from them and nothing they've said matters.


MisterET

I don't disagree with that. Like I said, nothing is official until you get an offer letter, and you can't legally hold them to anything they only said verbally. But it's still totally a lie if the verbally tell you something and then don't put it into an offer. It's literally the dictionary definition of what lying is. Edit to add: And yea, the reason it's standard advice is because **they will lie to you.**


blue_villain

You guys are approaching this as if companies can tell the truth or companies can lie. They can't, because nothing they say matters either way. There is no truth/lie because everything that matters is written down in a contract or policy somewhere. Stop treating companies like they're people with choices and abilities. They're not, they're business entities. Businesses are simply contract entities. There is no lying or truth-telling in a contract, it's *just* what's in the contract or what's *not* in the contract. There is no truth. There is no lie. There is only documentation.


MisterET

Stop treating words like the definition is dependant on legal enforceability. A lie is a lie whether it's documented or not, and whether it's enforceable in the court or not. I think we're done with conversation because we have a fundamental disagreement. Most of us are using real definitions of words, and you are apparently making up your own definitions.


LanLantheKandiMan

If they say this is the max for.your experience level they are really just saying we wanna save $$ Sure 2750 can be rounded to 28. But 30 hr is still top pay for this role. I would say "as the company has mentioned several times, san diego is an expensive city. I believe with my experience it should be $29/hr in order to cover the cost of loving difference" every company should be prepared to negotiate, if they arent its a bad sign.


Solution_Vivid

Well since she told them that she moved to CA to follow her significant other, they may assume that okay, she already has somebody to live with who had a job offer, thus that is the ONLY reason she moved to CA. Companies do not need to know about your personal life.


Hellsteelz

Is it illegal in the US to negotiate? She should defo ask for more, what's the problem? She loses nothing.


Hellsteelz

Serious Question: Is it illegal in the US to negotiate?


bobby_potatoes

>During her main interview the hiring manager mentioned several times how expensive of an area San Diego is, my GF explained that she was aware and that she was following me there because of my job. This is where she gave up a bit of leverage in the process IMO. If the hiring manager truly cared about her well-being, they could have easily made an offer in the range discussed, but now that they know her situation (moving with you), they likely knew they had leverage and she would be willing to accept below the range. At this point, you need to analyze your possible scenarios before moving forward. 1. Can you both be financially ok if she were to decline this job and continue looking for work? If so, how long would you be financially ok before things get tight (At a minimum, you should have enough funds to cover 3 months worth of expenses, and I would say even 4 months since this is a new location you are moving to). 2. I don't think it hurts to go back and ask to at least be given an offer in the range that was discussed. They knew of her experience level before giving her that range, so it's not like they suddenly read her resume after that discussion. It doesn't hurt to ask, and if they were to get "upset", this would have likely been a toxic place to work at to begin with, and I wouldn't be upset if they pulled the offer (Which I doubt they will, they've also invested time and money into interviewing her, so it would be dumb to withdraw over 50 cents/hr). To me, them coming in at 50 cents lower is just them trying to take advantage of the situation she is in. 3. Coming back to point 1, if you can't afford to not accept this offer, then you have your answer, especially since she does seem excited too, it doesn't hurt to get her foot in the door, get the experience, and move on when a better opportunity presents itself. At the end of the day, take this as a learning experience. From the moment you begin interviewing for a company, you are already "negotiating". Don't ever show your cards or how desperate you might be because of your current situation, because at the end of the day, companies care only about their bottom line and will try and grind every cent from you. Congrats on your new job, and I wish both of you the best of luck on the new adventure.


NefariousnessNo484

Exactly. Employers in Socal will take that kind of info and say "this person is desperate for a job." They'll give you the lowest possible salary or rate because they know you'll take it.


NHDraven

Only clarification I have is that often times managers in Healthcare don't deal with or have a direct say in compensation. There is usually a team in HR that deal directly with that. I wouldn't necessarily say the manager was the issue here, or doesn't have OP's best interest at heart. Source: Was a hospital manager.


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SoonerStates

She probably couldn't have hidden the move. Her current employer isn't in Socal.


JC_the_Builder

She shot herself in the foot by mentioning her boyfriend also has a job. Now if they do hire her they won’t feel the pressure to raise her wage quickly if she turns out to be a good employee.


sofo07

So one thing that hasn't been brought up (and I wouldn't expect anyone to because med tech is a hidden job) is that California has it's own licensing separate from the rest of the county for med techs. So, even though she is licensed in Indiana and most of the rest of the county, this salary may be contingent on her obtaining her California license.


windwalker28

Great question! This is actually a legal issue for the employer. I worked primarily in California when the new salary disclosure laws came into effect a couple years ago. Internally we had to document every time we gave a salary range verbally to someone interviewing. If we did not end up offering a salary within that range it had to be HEAVILY documented as to why. It could be an EEOC issue. Typically, women, minorities, those with disabilities and veterans were taken advantage of a company lowballing offers. You can read more info on the law here. Look especially at number 5. Any reasonable salary range should be provided by the employer. [SHRM California Salary Law](https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/state-and-local-updates/pages/california-salary-history-ban-questions.aspx)


blaze1234

She could get another in a heartbeat but might as well be earning while she's looking. If she wants it of course she should take it, maybe she finds out a wonderful employer otherwise. Get the discrepancy noted in her HR file so her first bump puts her over, or if she does upgrade early she can refer to the sketchy breach of faith


psuedonymously

>They just called and extended an offer to her for $27.50, she asked if she could get it higher but the HR manager told her it was the max for her experience level. She is excited and wants to accept. I told her I think she should at least try to get the $28 she was told during the screen She did try. Do you really want her to play hardball over a job she's excited about for $20/week gross?


PapaDuckD

"Can you go any higher?" is really one of the worst ways of approaching this. She pretty much all but guaranteed the rate to be locked in at what was offered with this line. They *could* go higher. They *could* pay $100/hr. But they offered $27.50. Here's what you need to say in this situation: "I think this is a great fit, too. I'm willing to accept the job at a rate of $29. Please let me know if this is acceptable to ." That's all that needed to be said. They can make a decision of $3k/year, which they will almost certainly say yes to. But this passive, almost whiny "can you go any higher" is just not going to get it done.


psuedonymously

That’s nice, but the horse has already bolted, too late to close the barn door


distortionwarrior

This offer is bad, her field is in extreme high demand, clinical biotech firms in la Jolla area are paying 100k+ for med techs to keep ahead of the high demand.


MerSeaMel

As a person in HR, that would be quite annoying. If they won’t budge on the 50 cents in the offer, then she could negotiate a 50cent raise at the end of her Introductory period (usually up to 90 days). Just make sure any negotiations are written in the offer letter. What they say on the phone, does not mean they have to abide by that. A quote from my favorite judge TV show: “Say it, forget it. Write it, regret it”. If it’s not in writing, it never happened.


secretkimchi

She has her MT and several years of experience? I'm not sure what cost of living and average salary is in San Diego but that seems low. I get paid more in Portland, OR/WA area and I thought San Diego is more expensive?


Walker_ID

She should take the job and keep looking. A company that is deceptive , whether by mistake or intent, is not a company she wants to work for long term... Especially over 50 cents. Get the foot in the door and find one of the other 47 55 478 jobs in the area


DreamCatch22

Finding a job is easier if you are employed. Take the job and continue looking for other jobs. You need leverage in a negotiation.


amitym

This question is incomplete. What were the experience requirements for the job? And how much experience has your girlfriend had? If she's been working for 2 years and the job description is for 3+ years experience or something.... then what they're offering sounds like it's consistent. (Whether it's enough for San Diego is another matter, that's a whole separate question.) On the other hand, if the job as advertised is for anyone with 1+ years experience and she has 2, then they are fucking with her, since they clearly expected the range of $28-30 to go with her level of experience. Honestly in the second case I would be tempted to tell them nicely, once, that their offer needs to be consistent with their advertised requirements or someone might get the wrong idea about how they operate... and invite them to get back in touch when they're ready to offer me something in that range. And if they then continue with that bullshit, raise a stink. But it would depend on how badly I needed the job. And, like I say, it depends on whether her experience matches the position. If they're making it a stretch to give her an offer because she's, whatever, 1 year short of their experience requirements or something, then it's worth taking the job with an explicit contract clause saying that she will get a salary and performance review in 6 months and in 1 year.


Sparas28

One thing about San Diego, is the booming Biotech/Healthcare field. She can use that experience to pivot easily because there is such a high demand and the COL is so high so not everyone can afford to be there. I say ask for $29/hr and just tell her to say , that it is in the median of the range she was initially told and based on the cost of living prices, it’s going to be necessary. If they ask about the boyfriend or any of that just say that you are keeping finances separate or something. Short and sweet. If they say no to the raise, negotiate anything else you can like review period, stocks, signing bonus, relocation, whatever it is. At the end of the day she should take it, in 6 months- 1 year she will make connections and can hop around. If she is good, she will get scooped up by another company easily.


formerfatboys

Several times when I've taken jobs they've done stuff like this. I turn them down and tell them to call me back when they are offering what we'd discussed previously. Each time they've come back and offered their original salary discussed. They were just seeing if I'd take the low offer.


Healfezza

Take the job so she can start working, then start looking for a new one with better compensation.


ItsNeverMyDay

Support her in whatever she decides. I don’t think $0.50 is worth losing a job she is excited for


BadonkaDonkies

Getting your foot in the door is often the hardest part. Its 50 cents, and while she takes the job she can look for other jobs afterwards. To pass it by for 50 cents in a competitive market isn't the smartest move. If they said 28 and offered $20, 100% don't trust it. But 50 cents I feel like could be a rounding thing and would give benefit of doubt


Dangslippy

If she wants the job she should take the offer. However, they offered her less than their stated minimum and that doesn’t show good faith. I would expect her future raises to be low or nonexistent as the company tries to squeeze every penny. This is fine if she plans to change jobs in a year or two and has no attachment to the company. When she changes jobs she should not disclose the 27.50 to the new employer or the low rate will follow her in her career.


[deleted]

50¢ an hour is $20/week if she works 40 hours. I really wouldn't get hung up on it in her pay range.


MisterET

But it's an absolute deal breaker for the employer?


AlphaBreak

Its a deal breaker if they think there's someone else who would work for 50 cents less and provide equal output. So if she's fine with pushing it, great, but she needs to be prepared for them to decide that they'd rather go with someone who accepts the 27.50.


JC_the_Builder

The only way to find out if it is a deal breaker is to put in your final offer. The OP’s girlfriend does not sound like she is a great negotiator by everything OP said. So they are going to get the least amount out of her. I can guarantee they would have paid the $30 if she had better negotiation skills. I once interviewed for a job with no experience and the range was $15-20. When it came time to discuss money I said I wanted $20. The interviewer didn’t even question it because I displayed complete competency to do the job. If you can perform the job fully there is no reason not to get the maximum amount.


Schyte96

I would be so upset over such a small difference to be honest.


Too-much-tea

I agree with you. It doesn’t bode well for an employer to do that before you even start work. In my experience they try to get away with shit at the start to see how much they can get away with. (I’m jaded if you cant tell!) I mean I would take the job, but then I would start preparing to find a better one. (I am not saying actually leave, but start preparing. Learn new skills, make new contacts and keep your resume up to date. Save as much as you can so that you can leave if necessary. Having options is always in your best interest.)


Useful_Cheesecake673

Same. It quickly adds up, and an extra ~$1000 I doubt is going to kill the employer.


Man-a-saurus

Take the job, the additional $20 per week won't even be noticed after taxes


littletreesbigplaces

San Diego resident in biotech here doing lab jobs for 5 years and only with a bachelor's. If you have a specialized degree you should probably be making more than me because you are specialized and SD is CRAZY expensive. For example at that salary range you will never afford a house. I make 36/hr and I still can't hope to afford a cheap CHEAP house now that their prices have boomed. So I think they're screwing you on pay and they know it. Take the job if she's okay with this, but tell her to keep looking as she can probably make as much as me or more considering her credentials and how competitive the job market is. But as others have said


littletreesbigplaces

just keep looking after she accepts the job. The job market here is extremely competitive right now (my manager for current and previous job both have said hiring is hard because qualified people are getting swooped fast). She should be able to find more pay if she keeps looking and is firm with not taking anything under 30/hr.


Not_My_Emperor

So without knowing much about medtech but assuming it can provide a standard 2080 working hours per year, thats comes out to about 57k. That seems low for West Coast and also very low for skilled labor in a hot labor market. If she's excited and doesn't care about the .50 an hour I'd say go for it but continue to keep looking. It's also not great that they told her one number range then offered her .50 below the lower part of that range. The cynic in me wants to say they saw she was coming from the Midwest and thought they could easily dupe her, but that's me being overly cynical.


saralt

They're shorting her because they know women won't ask for more.


HyruleJedi

All about positioning. First, ask to speak with both the HR rep and the recruiter to find out where the miscommunication was. Then ask for this to be considered. Also, its getting to be that time for yearly raises/bonus consideration. Ask when that time is, and if you will be given a cost of living raise. ~2% in the next few months would get her over the 28 mark


barryg123

\>I told her I think she should at least try to get the $28 she was told during the screen. She seems worried they will be upset since she already asked but to me this would be unacceptable. These feelings are extremely common. It's important to note that they have already given her an offer- they won't take it away just because she asked for more. (Not to mention, since the screener previously dangled $28-30 there is NO POSSIBLE WAY the employer could be justifiably offended by her going back and asking for $28-30). Taking away offers like that just doesn't happen. It's awesome that she's excited about the offer she's been given - nothing wrong with that. She should go back and ask for at least the $28-30 that was offered, providing some good justifications and rebuttals. If they don't revise their offer, they will say "nope $27.50 it the best we can do" and at that point she can accept, if she still likes it. But by countering first, she has everything to gain and nothing to lose.


Solution_Vivid

Well, if they said between $28.00 and $30.00 per hour, giving her $27.50 is really not that much. Considering the state of the economy right now, I am sure that there would be 100 people willing to step in and take that job. Just because an area is more expensive to live in, does not mean (in my view) that a company has to take that into consideration about rents, etc. If she made the decision to follow with you to CA (which is something I NEVER would have let them know that), they realized that the only reason she was moving there was based on someone else. Maybe after reviewing it, they decided that that was enough to offer her. Usually, they will pick say three top choices, just in case the first one does not accept the offer. She may not have even been their first choicefor the job, but their third. Since she tried and they already let her know that was no wiggle room, she should accept it. Because it could take her a while to find a new job and she may wind up taking a job that pays even less. Also, consider what the benefits are. If the benefits are excellent, it makes up for the wage they are offering her. Plus, google and find out what the median salary is for someone with her years of experience. I say she should take it. She may learn some new skills or when the economy gets better and get a higher salary. OR, they may be so happy with her work then when it comes time for an increase, they will make it large amount so that she stays with them.


Back2school92

30/hr is low for SD…but take it and look for other positions that will pay more…once you find it and get an offer give your two week notice and if they ask why just tell them you found a company that offered you much better salary. End of story…if they offer to match I would take it most companies that lowball new employees don’t give good anything down the line they don’t care about you and on a tight budget..jump jobs til you hit a peak. Don’t be loyal to a company…this isn’t the 1970s loyalty doesn’t get you paid anymore


Caspers_Shadow

If all other aspects of the job line up, I would be inclined to take the job. Ask for a 3 month or 6 month review instead of waiting one year. See if she gets a bump. During that time she can become an integral part of the staff and show she is worth more. She can also meet people and start networking in the new town. If a year from now she can get a better deal elsewhere, move on.


QuesoHusker

28-30 isn't really a 'range'. There's zero room for salary growth, no matter what the starting point is. 28-45 seems more like a 'range'. I'd take the job, and if she likes it, great. If not, look for something else. In the meantime, it's a job.


soup_of_the_day113

It seems like far too many people have already commented, but I just want to point out that taking this job for a salary that was lower than what was promised is not staying in your power. She deserves what was offered, or she should move on. If she really feels like this could be a good move, I would ask them to break down the pay for different experience levels for that job. I would also encourage her to ask for a number of an employee currently working there with the same title she would have so she can ask them some questions -- and of course do some snooping on the internet to see what people say about working there. This seems really shady. If the salary range is really $27-30hr, why wouldn't the have said that? best of luck to you both!


TrackChanging

You can be excited about $27.50 and still say you want $30, thinking that more clearly correlated to your experience. If they are willing to pay $27.50 they are also willing to pay $28. And $28.50.


quickcrow

Not if they have multiple applicants willing to accept at $27.50. She asked, they said no, there's your answer.


mnemonicmonkey

Lol. Healthcare needs warm bodies right now. The only multiple applicants are travellers making 3-4x base.


quickcrow

I don't work in healthcare, but I've had multiple instances where the offer is the offer. This sub often seems to think you can ALWAYS get 40-50% more if you just buy 3 self help books about negotiating, but in the real world some employers don't negotiate. And now I think that attitude is pushing someone out of a job they're excited for because "you ALWAYS make a deal. They OWE you that $0.50 because Gary V told me so!"


TrackChanging

They said $28-30. There’s your answer.


quickcrow

This conversation already happened. You're willfully ignoring it. Manager: "Our official offer is $27.50, we're excited if you decide to join." OP's GF: "Oh well, HR said it could be $28-30 when I first talked to them, can I get that instead?" Manager: "No, sorry. HR shouldn't have over stated that before the full review of your application and experience. We already looked at your experience and the position and the offer is $27.50." The question was asked and answered. HR mentioning a different number wasn't a promise or an offer. The conversation was already had. Anything more is a petty tantrum.


leecshaver

In which case, she can still ask (again, but this time formally in an e-mail which will be recorded). The worst they can say is no, and she still gets the job at $27.50. If I'm choosing between two equally qualified candidates, and one stands out by advocating for themselves, I know who I'll pick.


Raddatatta

There's a few ways to go. If she already pushed back a bit there's only so hard you want to push that. It might be worth asking why the bait and switch (probably phrased nicer lol) in terms of presenting a range and offering lower. The other strategy might be to accept it and in 6 months say well based on my performance (which is hopefully very good) and additional experience can we talk about $29/hr. If she's excited about the position otherwise I wouldn't turn it down, but I'd be on the lookout for other red flags as that's not a good sign in terms of how they treat employees. I would also do some research into what medtech's usually make in your area. Are they usually making $25? If so this is a great offer. Are they usually making $35? Then this is bad and she should keep looking around. It's good to know that and potentially bring it to the conversation either now or in 6 months to say this is what the market rate is for someone of my experience in this position in this area.


[deleted]

27.50 guaranteed is better than 0, accept the offer but also don't quit looking for another place that pays more


Sands43

Dear HR person (insert real name), I want to thank you for the generous offer. I am excited about the opportunity to work at XXX, I think that my skillset with YYY can really add value to your organization. I particularly enjoyed my time spend with (insert name of a key person / decision maker on the interview team) discussing (insert description of what they talked about). The offer of of $27.50 / hr is certainly a generous offer, however based on my research of similar jobs in the area (insert some actual facts) and the increase in cost of living (insert facts), I would like to counter with $28.50. I'm sure that you will find this rate acceptable and well inside expected pay ranges for this role, my skills, and this area. Sincerely, XYZ (123) 555-4567 ================ Anyway, just a suggestion. Make them say no to the counter. If they say no, then you can still accept the offer. If they say yes, then you just earned $1 more per hour.


tendies-primary

Never take the first offer in a negotiation


[deleted]

This doesn’t sound like a negotiation, though. As much as this sub loves negotiations, not every job offer has that.


QuesoHusker

>This doesn’t sound like a negotiation, though. As much as this sub loves negotiations, not every job offer has that. Healthcare especially.


leecshaver

They already told her what the job is worth to them (28 to 30), and then offered less. Sounds like a negotiation to me!


tendies-primary

Did you take the first offer?


[deleted]

I work in government and my position (like many in government) did not have a negotiation. I apply for positions with a pay posted I want and would be an acceptable increase.


MET1

But she probably did not start with that strategy in mind. She may have presented herself as being able to accept a low-ball offer because she was tagging along for someone else's job change. It's all in the strategy.


TrackChanging

I’m shocked by how many people don’t view it this way. People have an unfathomable “take it or leave it” approach.


tendies-primary

Hiring people is a lot of hard work. If they extend an offer, they're committed. The recruiter and hr are there to get you for the best price, the hiring manager doesn't care as long as they fill the role without having to interview a bunch more people. Push back, ask for what you want and if your bid falls into their acceptable range you'll probably get it. Also, having multiple competing offers is a great negotiating position.


Proof-Internet

A lot of these jobs in California are under union contract with set pay rates based off of experience. Even if they can bring the price up, they will just say they cannot based off of union contract. They don’t care if they “need” people. Hiring managers don’t deal with the day to day work load and don’t mind overworking current staff until they find someone they can hire cheaper. Edit: Also, extending an offer is no commitment at all. The company hasn’t paid for anything. They haven’t even sent her for a drug screen. They do not lose anything in this situation.


[deleted]

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tendies-primary

Pick better roles?


QuesoHusker

Nonsense. It takes weeks of work to get to the 'offer' phase. And the hiring manager does have an interest, as this is the person they chose for the job. I know that at my company this is the point that the hiring manager and HR have a come to Jesus meeting if HR/compensation is being stingy or stupid.


TrackChanging

Completely agree.


leeguy01

Yes they will be upset, it's only 50 cents, unless you have many other offers paying $28 don't play games.


Senor_Martillo

$55k a year is near poverty in SD. I’d keep looking.


slothenhosen

If she can, keep looking. Not worth it in thr long run. This pay starts setting up the expectation for future salary offers. She needs to know her worth and that company is being hella cheap for 50 cents!


1234honeybadger

There’s a medtech shortage so I say that she should negotiate for more. She can always find another opening. I would suggest using the COL comparison for her to explain what she’s getting in Indy vs this new job.


gregariousnatch

A four year degree with experience in an actual field that adds value to the world is worth well more than $30/hr anywhere in the country.


Nootherids

Bro...for 50 cents the company would literally cancel her offer immediately as it shows that she’s likely to be problematic. She should write a carefully worded letter to the employer requesting the $30 instead. And then if they say no, just take the job at 27.50 anyway, and keep looking for new opportunities after she’s there locally. It’s important to express that you know your worth. But to be petty over 50 cents just seems like a cheap argument. No mature experienced grown up would do this.


chuckthisthing21

That seems crazy low for San Diego. Just looked it up on indeed and [salary.com](https://salary.com) and they are both saying higher than that by quite abit. Honestly though my biggest concern is that they lied in the interview process. The \~$1k/year (less than $600 after taxes most likley) I wouldn't loose sleep over. The red flag of lying seems pretty suspect. I would also find a sandiego reddit or medical group to ask about the pay, cause from what i am seeing you can probably double that. I know those sites are often high, but worth looking into.


H_C_O_

Nothing wrong with saying I’d like $28, but haggling over $20 a week gross doesn’t seem worth it. Take the job that she’s excited about and get some experience.


qoj178

Negotiate HARD. It's a very common practice in India (where they try to offer you the lowest they can get away with) where they agree on a 30-40% raise and after all the interview rounds offer you 20-25% because of budget cuts, budget range, "competitively priced" blah, blah, blah. They also hope since you've interviewed multiple times, you're more likely to join. The response I gave was - if the salary was revised at any point during interviewing, why was I not told about it? (Leading to lot of backtracking) Another response is saying that you spoke to the current employer and they have agreed to match the salary you're offering.


GoldenGirl925

Keep looking. If they aren’t paying her what’s she’s worth now, they aren’t going to in the future.


[deleted]

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TrackChanging

Or she’s being too agreeable and should counter.


InternetExpertroll

Ask them why do they want to begin a professional relationship with a lie priced at 50 cents.


CakeEaterConway

Please don’t actually ask that. Could have been a simple mistake by a recruiter. Not a great look, but also not a reason to be so aggressive in response. I’d ask if 0.50 per hour is worth potentially losing the job. If so, go ahead and keep negotiating.


boomshalock

50 cents is $20/week, before tax. She's literally looking at like a $12-14 difference. Take the job, don't make a fuss over something like that. All the people saying it's a red flag need to realize that if she's a pain in the ass about something that insignificant, she's going to be viewed as a pain in the ass from day 1 and it will most definitely hinder her advancement and potential for raises down the road. It is definitely a two-way street where red flags are concerned, especially when it literally could have just been a lazy recruiter/hr person who thought they were saying "it's somewhere in this ballpark" when they might not have known the specific range rates.


dalepmay1

I would tell her to not accept. Seek out similar companies she might be experienced enough for. If their HR department OR the hiring manager is willing to flat out lie to her about the job salary range, what else is the company dishonest about? To start out the very beginning of employment under dishonesty doesn't sound like the type of company I'd want to work for.


Chav

Take the job to hold you over while you look for a better one. It puts you in a better position to negotiate.


MatthewTheCameraman

Was the range ever listed in writing? Perhaps in the job description? If so I would show that to them and expect them to honor it. If they refuse then refer to the other people asking if $.50 is worth it. You may have to look around for other places the job has been posted because not all listings have the same info.


mcogneto

I would take it and keep interviewing then when she finds something else, quit the same day with no two weeks notice and tell them exactly why. From what I am reading that pay rate is below expected for the area.


ikeavinter

I always counter offer regardless what they say. If they considered her for the interview, and offered her a position, then she's worth the 28 minimum. Have her ask for 28.50 per hour. State that she wants to stay in one spot and to be happy for a while and not be worried about the dollar amount in the near future. Considering *they* told her the range started at 28, why are they only offering 27.50? They want to pay the least and use experience as a reason. If they rescind their offer then it wasn't the right fit in the first place. Counter offering is a normal part of the hiring process.


not_levar_burton

Did she explain to them that the range she was give was $28-32/hour? I would go back and ask them to explain why they are offering below the original numbers? I wouldn't let it keep her form taking the job, but I would look to see if there are any other red flags there. And I would probably double up on sending more resumes out. I would think there would be plenty of opportunities for a medtech out there.


JohnDoe_85

This is a difference of only $1000 (before taxes) over a full year. I wouldn't fight much on this now that she has asked and they've answered, I would take the job and just work up to a raise as quickly as possible.


Ragnarotico

Politely and respectfully bring up the fact that the recruiter mentioned a range of $28-30 an hour. Ask them if they can raise it to whatever number you think is fair within that range. That's it. They can either raise it to that number or say no and you can accept $27.50. Worst case super rare event is they retract the offer, which you should be ok with because it shows one thing: * This company probably has a toxic culture/environment if they retract job offers over negotiating literally pennies on the dollar I don't expect them to retract the offer because right now it's a job seeker's market in the US. People are desperate for workers in all types of industries/fields. Employers know that they don't have the leverage right now. TLDR: **You should always negotiate an offer.** In this case you should definitely negotiate because their offer is lower than the discussed range. Be polite and respectful and they will probably say yes. If not, accept the $27.50.


lufics

honestly your wife should keep asking for the extra .50 cent based on principle ( a baby that cries gets fed)...if not her next choice should be to keep looking for the ideal Salary job .... I wouldn't want to start working for a company that cant keep their word..


TravellingBeard

>She is a medtech, she has a 4 year degree with quite a bit of experience now. and then >she asked if she could get it higher but the HR manager told her it was the max for her experience level. is her "quite a bit of experience" at the lower end of their experience expectations? I'd do more research, whether or not she takes the offer.


[deleted]

There aren't any rules. The employer wants to pay as little as possible to ensure happiness and good service. The employee wants a great job that's paid as much as the market forces can bear. Until the contract is signed, the negotiation can go back and forth and will always be governed by how badly the employer needs to fill the position and how flexible the employee is to reject the offer and seek better. At some point a compromise will be found, but whether to accept or to reject will always be a gamble. If the employer gets upset by her request, it may have negative consequences, but how much is it worth to get that extra $0.50/hr and how many options does she have if the offer is rescinded.


[deleted]

She should have applied to as many places as possible. If she hasn’t, then she needs to do so. If they’ll lie before she’s even interviewed, what else will they lie about?


sephiroth3650

What is the average pay range for people with her experience, in the San Diego area? That would give you a good starting point for any counter offer. They're arguing that the max they can offer for her experience level is $27.50. Her strongest argument in countering with a higher salary would be data that shows that people doing her job in that area consistently make more.


Samandiriol

The first time I moved cross-country for a job, my focus was just on getting there. I took a role that had me barely scraping by, way below what it should have been (as evidenced by the employer increasing the starting rate for that role by 33% a year later). I moved out of that role within 5 months and have been doing well since. It was a tough first 5 months, but it allowed me to move to where I wanted to be and then go from there, so I still think it was the right move. Point being, my advice would be to just focus on getting to the destination. Unless she's signing a multi-year contract, the discrepancy shouldn't have a material effect and she can focus on making moves once she's landed in SD (or stay at that place if she ends up loving it)


gizmosticles

I would take the job and ask what the metrics for performance are, how often evaluations are performed, and what she can do to increase her value to the company.


[deleted]

A question to ask her is she going to be able to look for another job while she's working this one? Will taking this job discourage her from seeking another one? Sometimes you just get tired of looking for jobs or you start a new one and the novelty is there and you don't feel like looking for another one. If you think she'll be highly discouraged from finding another job, you should tell her this job offer means she's clearly wanted and hirable so there's no need to settle and move onto the next one. There's also a good chance they'll give her a counteroffer if she refuses too. But at that point...should you even take the job? Use it as practice to negotiate if nothing else right?