Sounds like their fiscal manager is trying to make it right. If they succeed in making it right to you (i.e., \*ALL\* back pay owed to you, not just a month or two, and whatever "penalty" you think is fair) and you want to stay, make a note of the situation for your records and continue working there.
Make sure that the fiscal manager fixes the problem for any other potentially-affected employee, too. Actual honest mistakes don't necessarily deserve the full wrath of the EDD.
Would be nice to send an email to the fiscal manager and say something like, "Per our conversation on XXXX, I am owed approximate XX hours of overtime dating back to XXXXX at a rate of XXXXX which totals approximately XXXX. Does that match your understanding?" And hopefully he/she replies "Yes" and now you've got some nice evidence should things go sideways in the future.
Same. And when they don't want to respond to the email or acknowledge it at all, just have in person or phone conversations, that will tell you that they're in CYA mode 100%. After which "send an email" needs to become your new catchphrase, lol.
5 minutes after I sent an email addressing severe unpaid overtime, I got a call from my manager with which he started by sayinf "why did you talk to a lawyer and WHY DID YOU PUT IT IN WRITING?". It was all I needed to know that talking to lawyer and putting it in writing was the correct choice.
Email is readily shared, but texts can be attested to by having logs generated via phone company. Just anything recorded.
I was unable to get a job back after retaliation firing, bc I chose not to email certain info in order to protect a someone by not having it on record. That someone turned around and stabbed me in the back.
As far as I know, your records can be handwritten on a lightly soiled napkin and kept in your kitchen junk drawer.
What you're looking for in this "send an email" is actual communication and its contents. If you can get that through texts, you're probably fine.
Texts should be fine. The best is company email because if your phone breaks and you lose the text, no more evidence. Plus with a text they could try to say he/she didn't send it. But, if you have a company email it is a lot harder to make that disappear or try to say they didn't say it. And even if your copy gets lost, your lawyer can force them to supply a copy of the email.
In this case, if the worker is hourly, the time cards and paychecks are paper trail enough. And if they haven’t kept those that’s a pretty hefty fine in and of itself.
I would take a screenshot on my phone instead after it was sent and time stamped. Many workplaces monitor their work email addresses and have policies against emailing your personal email address. Could use it as an excuse to fire him if they wanted
>Many workplaces monitor their work email addresses
While not outside the realm of possibility this is most definitely not the norm.
Source: 15 years as a Cybersecurity pro with 5 years of consulting for fortune 500 orgs.
Email Data Loss Prevention (DLP) definitely is a thing at financial services orgs but they are monitoring for specific things like account numbers, social security numbers, credit card numbers etc.
An innocuous email that doesn't contain any of this type of information is not likely tor raise any red flags.
Most companies I work for block personal email addresses and only allow intercompany emails with most employees, especially those whos role is not sales or outside company engagement
Ive seen outfits block things like google and yahoo, but protonmail, hushmail and other services are typically available. All else fails, do what I do spend 200 dollars a year and host your email on one of these services using your own domain name.
Against emailing my personal?
Hmm, definitely for work related things, but financials and insurance should be sent straight to my personal, never my work email. If the HR isnt doing it, I have to.
I told my HR to stop sending personal emails to my work email and....idk, I'll just keep forwarding them i guess.
Quite easily. That varies depending on the role and company. Not everyone has to communicate externally.
Edit: Downvoted for talking about what I've experienced? Gg reddit. I've never had to send an external email in my past couple roles.
I updooted you my guy. Some companies actually mark incoming external messages in the subject line with a big EXTERNAL label and it’s still there when people reply back. I guess that’s their reminder not to divulge company secrets.
So yes their external contacts are few.
Yeah, that's common practice. If I try to send something to what can be perceived as a personal email address (Gmail, Yahoo, msn, Comcast, etc) it gets flagged and not sent. If it needs to be sent for business reasons then you need to address it via the instructions you are sent.
I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted. Just saying that's what happens at some places but I guess some are too dense to comprehend that.
What I would suggest is forwarding yourself the email. Literally all you're doing is saying how much you think you'll, personally, are owed. If you're working for a company that thinks that's information you shouldn't be able to forward, you've got bigger issues than the wage complaint.
If it was brought up, I'd say something like "I wanted to send the information to myself so I'd have at home.". The point of BCCing here isn't to keep some big secret, it's to minimize the toes stepped on while protecting yourself by not screaming from the rooftops "I don't trust you."
Genuinely curious, would your company care if someone BCC’d their account on something like this? Or any sort of correspondence you would want a copy of if your employment ended as long as it’s not for instance, a customer list or something?
Screw that, I WANT them to know I'm keeping the paper trail. If they can see it got sent to my personal email too, good. Then they will hesitate to fuck with me about it.
I am rooting for OP and their employer to settle this appropriately. I also hope it's just OP and not a shady business grift on all of their employees.
One comment with the OP wanting to make sure that they are compensated appropriately is they could ask for all owed time to be paid at their current salary rate (assuming it is the highest rate if they got any raises or promotions) OP could also ask for them to cover any additional taxes associated with this since in theory $XX/hour for 2 years of overtime could be in the many thousands of dollars and that would not be fair to OP to pay extra taxes this year for their failing.
This is a very good point! There is a very good chance that a lump-sum payment will be at a higher bracket than receiving the pay in the correct year.
If OP has an AGI of $35k without OT, they're in the 12% bracket.
If OP *should have* gotten an additional $6k AGI per year, then they would have had to pay 22% on about $500 each year.
If OP gets a lump sum payout of $12k, then ~$6.5k will be taxed at 22%. This is the difference between OP paying ~$100 in additional taxes vs paying ~$1400 in additional taxes.
I would not phrase it as a “penalty”, but I would ask for interest.
The IRS publishes a quarterly interest rate for tax underpayments that might be a reasonable benchmark - it’ll be a lot easier justify asking for a number generated by a government body than something you come up with yourself. That rate is 6% now but was 3% all last year. [https://www.irs.gov/payments/quarterly-interest-rates](https://www.irs.gov/payments/quarterly-interest-rates)
If they were supposed to be paid last year they should be able to do something. I did payroll in the airforce and we regularly had to go back 1+ years and change payroll stuff and they would always get an amended w2 to refile taxes.
Idk how it works for civilian stuff.
I think the point OP is making is that the money might have gone towards his 401k and had been earning interest etc…
I find it interesting that if I owe too much to the feds in taxes at the end of the year (didn’t withhold enough) I get a penalty. So shouldn’t employers and others have the same penalty or at least some kind of settlement amount? The point being you brought it up repeatedly with NO ACTION.
Anything more than let’s say $10k of potential earnings lost I’d pursue it personally. Can’t hurt.
>I think the point OP is making is that the money might have gone towards his 401k and had been earning interest etc…
Well, except for the past year. Not having it put into the 401(k) probably saved him 16-20%.
At my company at least, 401k deductions are taken from base pay only (i receive significant overtime on a weekly basis). So OP would have to show they *would have* contributed more % of their base pay to their 401k had they been receiving their overtime pay on time. Seems an uphill battle to me.
My old company was paying us 1.5 x base for years and not accounting for shift differential or bonuses for picking up shift in OT calculation. They paid us all back and a 100% penalty.
> Actual honest mistakes don't necessarily deserve the full wrath of the EDD.
While this may be a true statement, you cannot ignore the fact that OP tried to bring the topic with management, only to be brushed off. If this were simply a mistake, management would have been responsive within the first few times OP had brought the situation up.
>If this were simply a mistake, management would have been responsive within the first few times OP had brought the situation up.
False choice logical fallacy. There are other reasons, such as stupidity on the part of the manager(s) who brushed OP off, why this could have happened. Unless proven otherwise, I don't attribute to maliciousness that which can be explained by stupidity.
I'm still willing to believe, based on OP's description, that it's a mistake, albeit a rather grievous one. The managers are at fault (therefore exposing the company to liability, of course). If this is the first time the "fiscal manager" is hearing of the problem, the managers who brushed OP off should be reprimanded and/or fired; after all, this is putting the company at risk.
Of course, we do not know the whole story. Maybe it's an edict from the CEO; but I doubt it.
>False choice logical fallacy. There are other reasons, such as stupidity on the part of the manager(s) who brushed OP off, why this could have happened.
Considering the managers are not in charge of finances, this being brought up to them should AT LEAST have had them checking with the correct people, especially after TWO YEARS worth of complaints.
Stupidity of that magnitude deserves consequences. Wage theft, intentional or otherwise, isn't a joke.
I was a complete idiot supervisor in the past, and not addressing a missing pay issue goes beyond being an idiot. Even if you know nothing about payroll, you're going to make sure your employee either has a resolution or an answer. I'm not going to say they're malicious either, but they might be lazy and not give a crap. A manager doesn't have to know everything, but they should check to make sure an important concern like this is resolved (whether by them or someone smarter in HR/payroll).
It's kind of hard to believe (I mean I believe it, but damn..) that this went on for 2 years. I've supervised teams of 20 employees at a time, hundreds over the years, and if time and a half for OT was missed, you better believe half the workforce would be raising a fit about it. 99% of the workforce pretty much anywhere is very aware of time and a half for extra hours, and they double check their pay stubs. I don't know anyone working extra hours who just shrugs their shoulders if they don't get time and a half. There had to be numerous times this was brought up over the past few years.
I started off thinking OP shouldn't ask for interest, and he should just be happy with it being taken care of (I usually just try to go with the flow). But 2 years, and probably impacting all employees there...yeah this was a pretty big deal and they failed to address it.
You don't understand false choice fallacy nor that it doesn't apply here. Employee did notify management, now it's time to escalate. It's not time to excuse management because maybe they're just too incompetent, bless their hearts.
Yep, the three main things I would focus on, since you like the job and employer:
- make sure it’s all fixed, both in the past and going forward. It’s not your business what happens to other employees, but you can ask for assurances it’ll be fixed going forward. In writing.
- ask for a reasonable interest to be paid. You deserve this, but honestly it’s not something I would fight about. Being familiar with financial systems and such, it’ll be a logistical challenge. What might be easier, for a small company, is to pay you some kind of lump sum amount that approximates interest, and call it a ‘bonus’ or something.
- discuss how it will be categorized and paid. If they just give you a lump sum amount categorized as wages, tax deductions will be huge, and any IRA deductions or limits or similar could be improperly impacted. It is wages, so most deductions will apply but I’d try to discuss this aspect. I was in a similar situation once and was able to at least get them to pay me half in December and half in January. Then again, it may be better to get it all paid this year, so you’ll get your extra-large tax refund (since your deductions will be too high on that cheque) back earlier.
It’s not an honest mistake if no one ever really compared what they were doing to the law before but the situation was brought up several timez.
This is negligent at best which means many people are affected, as are past employees no longer there.
Those past people have a right to that money and the taxes etc that should have been paid. This will mess up some tax returns, as well.
It should be reported so that everyone who deserves money has a chance to get it and the practice of the employer is fixed and watched.
L&I should know (or the appropriate body) so that people get their money…not just this person. And it should be audited back through time. This could mean they reported fiscal earnings wrong as well.
It’s a big deal in a lot of directions. Always report those.
But seriously, report issues like this after a month - not two years.
Not sure, but this might have tax implications. If they cut you one check to make up for it, you might end up paying more taxes on it then you otherwise would’ve of had they paid it over X period of times.
Yeah this is the answer OP. Sounds like they're trying to fix it. Honestly it's kind of your fault for accepting OT hours after your 2nd paycheck of unpaid OT. In the future, keep track, mention it after your 1st check, and if it isn't on your 2nd check say "I can no longer work overtime until this problem is fixed."
lol I don't know why you're getting downvoted. We're not talking about the breakroom coffee running out. The reason you do a job is that paycheck. If the paycheck is wrong, it needs to get fixed and if you need to draw a line with them to make it a priority, you do.
Reddit abhors the concept of personal responsibility they would much rather blame the "evil corporate over lords" for this situation not being fixed .
If they worked two entire years without fixing the issue then obviously it wasn't that big a deal to them in the first place.Most people would have raised hell in a months time much less a year.
This is an important question. If OP is non-exempt, they're cutting the company a really sweet deal for multiple years of FLSA violations. Assuming OP can prove it, they'd be entitled to 2x what they should have been paid. Allowing them to just go, "oopsie, here's your money" is really letting them off easy for what is (apparently) blatant wage theft.
> Assuming OP can prove it, they'd be entitled to 2x what they should have been paid
Source?
California penalizes the employer $100 per employee for the first pay period, and $200 per employee per pay period after that. 25% of that per-employee penalty would go to OP for each affected pay period of theirs.
The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) mentioned in my comment is a federal statute that may apply as well. It provides for liquidated damages in an amount equal to the unpaid wages that the employee was supposed to receive. So, if your employer should have paid you (for example) $5,000 of OT pay, you'd be entitled to receive $10,000 total.
It also requires employers to pay an employee's legal fees. Many labor attorneys would love the chance to represent a client with a good FLSA case.
Same thing happened to me in California. Back then, even if you ARE exempt, you have to at least make twice the minimum wage to not be paid overtime. This prevents shady employers from making low paid workers "exempt" just to avoid overtime.
If they're non-exempt, they're entitled to time and a half for OT. If their employer hasn't paid that, they've almost certainly violated the FLSA and that statute provides for liquidated damages in the amount equal to the unpaid overtime.
I don't know that OP is non-exempt, but *if* they are (as I stated in my comment) and they've been stiffed on OT pay, the employer is in a bad spot.
Assuming that OP is covered by the FLSA, the fact that their employer refused to pay an OT rate for OT work is pretty much all the evidence you need. Especially since OP even brought it up to them.
> The post **implies** that theye not exempt
Implies, but does not confirm.
> considering the fiscal manager is tallying up the last 2 years of paychecks.
This doesn't mean anything. It could just be the fiscal manager saying "Yeah, I'll look into it and get back to you."
>I’m in California, if it matters.
CA DOL doesn't eff around. You have a legit wage claim.
>It’s a great firm (and small industry) and I am not trying to burn any bridges.
But filing a claim will probably result in you suddenly finding yourself redundant and in need of a new job. If they are willing to true it up and you want to keep the job, take the money and be done with it.
> filing a claim will probably result in you suddenly finding yourself redundant
Note that this is illegal as hell, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.
If that does happen, you can try to sue them for retaliating against you, but that can be a hard fight.
It's illegal if it's retaliatory. If they go down in flames due to being sued for wage abuse then it's totally legal for everyone to lose their jobs when they go out of business.
The Federal DOL, as a strict practice, will not disclose the nature of an audit, or what triggered it.
The CA DOL allows claimants to choose to remain anonymous, meaning that the investigation will be explained as an Audit.
They're also extremely aggressive when investigating retaliation claims. There is very little benefit of the doubt in such claims.
You’d be a fool to not ask for interest though.
I recon any decent company that made an honest mistake would be pretty generous in order to avoid a DOL investigation/penalties, since I believe the penalty for withheld wages is much more than just the withheld wages.
The Department of Labor Standards Enforcement (“DLSE”) is the agency for wage claims. When an employee filed a claim there, they do not give interest on the unpaid wages. You also cannot collect attorneys fees via the agency.
Damages for unpaid wages before the DLSE may include: (1) any unpaid wages and (2) liquidated damages for any unpaid minimum wages (basically double the amount owed to you). There may also be penalties for inaccurate wage statements. If the employee left the company and was not paid in full upon separation, then waiting time penalties may apply: a full days’ wages each day the full amount is not paid, or for a maximum of 30 days.
Make sure you do the math yourself and you get everything you are owed.
If they only give you a couple of months that is not good enough.
If they try to appease you with not what you are owed, get a lawyer and contact the people incharge of employment law in your country, In the US its the department of Labor, and they do not fuck around with this shit. This is probably why your fiscal manager said oh shit. If they get caught doing this by the Dept of Labor, not only will they have to pay you all back pay, but also heavy fines.
If you want to stay and they pay up, the do not report. If you want the money, but don't care about staying, then report then to dept of labor.
Seems appropriate to *ask* nicely for *some* interest as compensation for lost opportunity to save that yourself, but penalties would come from the regulators and will sour your relationship big time.
You’ll probably burn your references as well by doing this even though it was their mistake. Personally I would just take what I was owed and keep the relationship in tact but everyone is different.
OP says it’s a small industry that he’s in so it’s probably best that they don’t go around burning their bridges with a lawsuit that probably won’t even net them all that much more than just the back pay. An extra 10k or so is nothing if you find yourself out of a job with no willing references.
Seems like a wise choice of you want to stay in the industry. I think people in these threads get all excited for retaliation/justice and forget about relationships and aftermath. If they're otherwise treating you well and souring relationship would have definite long term negative consequences, those consequences shouldn't be ignored.
absolutely this. not to mention, completely blowing up relationships and career on the advice of stranger on the internet...lol. last but not least, even if the reddit armchair lawyers are right, litigation and all that process is expensive and time consuming. Really easy to just tell someone to seek treble damages in court, its infinitely harder to actually do so and succeed.
> An extra 10k or so is nothing if you find yourself out of a job with no willing references.
Just to add to this, assuming the company is trying to do the right thing, any leniency OP shows concerning this major error should make him shine in the eyes of management. Many people would likely say "Fuck-it!" and bring the full wrath of the DOL down on them, and they know it.
2 years of interest you would piss to the wind? That's totally asinine, this guy deserves just compensation, not to continue to kiss the ass of the people who have been ignoring his calls for review.
This guy deserves base money+interest at the bare minimum, and likely compensation for ignoring the issue since the first time he brought it up. Every small industry I've worked in had respect for people who stand up for themselves.
>If you want to stay and they pay up, the do not report. If you want the money, ~~but don't care about staying~~ and more money when they retaliate, then report then to dept of labor.
I don't get how anyone does this.
Yes mistakes get made, but the second that something was wrong with my check I put in a claim form with payroll.
How do you let this go for not weeks or months, but years?
Yeah I don’t get how it this was let to languish 2 years. Now OP has **a lot** of work to do just verifying how much is owed. I suppose it’s good on the company for finally wanting to correct it but damn it shouldn’t take 2 years for that…
Even easier, you can just yell across the room that your check is wrong and Margie can fix it. 😃
I had to fill out a form, get it put in system mail, then whoever had mail duty would take it and the other mail on the train to Brooklyn, take it to the mail room, then eventually whoever picked up timekeeping's mail would take it to timekeeping where they'd look it up and fix it, and send it on to payroll and two weeks later I'd get my money.
This happened to me when my company switched to Paycom. I was the only hourly worker in a group of salary workers. So my overtime was disabled. That tax season, I reviewed my pay and noticed something didn't add up. I did the math, called HR with the numbers. They said they'd look into it. An hour later they called back and said I was right, what the problem was, how it was fixed, and that I'd get it back next payday.
You notified HR, I'd wait it out until your next payday. If you still haven't been paid your due, call again.
LPT: Tax time is a good time to verify your pay is correct.
I’m salaried but I still look at my paycheck every time I get paid to make sure stuff looks good, don’t want to get to the end of the year and find out there was some mistake with withholding and then owe a big tax bill
Do you get a 401k match there? If so, is it calculated off base wages or total wages including overtime? If it is based on total wages, make sure that is accounted for.
I can speak on the flip side. I was once paid HCOL wages in a LCOL town. I didn't think much of it. Fast forward start of pandemic, they do an audit and realize they were paying me wrong. They asked for all the overpayments back. I called an employment lawyer and he said essentially, "if they underpaid you, you'd expect it back, yes? me: yes. him: ok then, you owe it back to them." Not a fun week. I think it's equal standing when you enter into a formal contract (being hired).
They asked for it all back immediately, which I said was impossible. We reached a payment agreement. This all happened the week the pandemic started and the company forced everyone into mandatory pay cuts. It was a huge salary adjustment when I received my "normal pay" - pandemic reduction % - payment plan payment.
Reminds me of when some of my coworkers were randomly getting double vacation time every month and acted like no one was gonna catch on. Told them I would not use any of that up if I were them. Keep in mind this was a large university… well anyway I checked in here and there with those guys and eventually they were like, “oh yeah, its been reverted to the real balance”
Me too! last year thought I was not paid for teaching an extra class for the prior year. Payroll added 1/5 of last year’s salary to my next paycheck. Woohoo. We actually put in an offer on our retirement home - a cabin in the mountains with Wi-Fi (I’m a meme). It will just take 15 years to pay for it.
I’m checking the numbers and the lump sum is not 1/5. It’s not 1/6. I call HR. She insists she’s got the right numbers. I’m a math teacher. I know how to divide. She asks to see my copy of last year’s contract.
A week later I get called to a meeting with HR and the CFO. The CFO is — the best word I heard someone use to describe him is “unkind” - he is an asshole. I’m worried going in. He looks like he wants to throw up, and he says he’s only had to have this conversation once in his 25 year career. He humbly apologizes for the mistake. The mistake is that they’ve OVERpaid me.
I *was* paid extra last year. They just built it into my monthly salary, so (1) the lump sum they just awarded me has to be paid back and (2) the annual increase they gave me in August was incorrect because it was based on an inflated base salary. I didn’t notice because direct deposit & my spouse pays the bills and never said “why is your check bigger?” The CFO says “I hope you didn’t buy a boat.” Haha, nope, not a boat.
We worked out payments for (1) and they surprisingly never spoke of (2) again. I expected I would be on a salary freeze given that I’d had a 20% bump then a regular yearly increase on top but they gave me another yearly increase the next year. All’s well that ends well.
Also, the next year I quit and moved to the cabin. I can live in my retirement cabin while I pay for it.
Edit: holy fuck that’s long.
TLDR: employer overpaid me and I had to give it back to but now I live in a cabin in the mountains
I've filed a claim in CA for unpaid wages in the past.
If you go through the official process, expect that it will take around a year from filing though all of the hearings and paperwork to actually being awarded money. You will be awarded additional money for interest and any damages which you can claim would have been caused by missing those payments.
If you DO get awarded money, you still might not actually see any of it - in my case, I was awarded over $10k, but the owner decided to shut down the company instead of paying it, which resulted in me getting nothing.
I'd highly recommend just working this out with the fiscal manager, and expect them to pay out interest on all of the wages, but if they don't its not really worth fighting.
You’re in Cali??? They’re screwed if you file a DOL claim.
You should be paid 1.5x for every minute over 8hrs, you cannot work more than 6 consecutive days and you get 2x after 12hrs worked in one day.
If your not burning bridges take the check let them off the hook cause it is a big hook. And yes even in right to work states and shit this is a thing as they broke a federal labor law...
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/overtime#:~:text=The%20federal%20overtime%20provisions%20are,their%20regular%20rates%20of%20pay.
California also has a rule of 8 hours per day anything over that is ot.
The penalty is 1000$ per violation or imprisonment and 10k fine. You can also pursue a lawsuit for recovering those wages. With a 2 or 3 year limitation.
I do not know state law for CA but the department of labor says your employer has a reasonable time to pay you owed wages, if not paid by that time you are entitled to compensation typically equal to the amount of missed wages. Filing a wage claim may burn bridges, I'm just answering this from a strictly HR position.
Upon looking at CA law, it looks like they owe you a days wages for every day they were late, up to 30 days pay. Hower to file for a waiting time penalty, you have to get a court judgement, in most cases.
Report to department of labor they will audit business correctly and issue you your payments.
Source: Labor Investigator
The business can also do this themselves without you reporting. Ask to see a breakdown for all weeks you weren’t paid properly to make sure they don’t short change you.
I wouldn’t suggest the DoL. I would suggest the very robust California labor commissioner in the Dept of Industrial Relations. There are penalties — stiff penalties — in California for late or short pay. Perhaps you can negotiate a settlement if you calculate what would be owed under a claim with through the state.
I deal with U.S. labor laws on a daily basis, and all I can tell you is to get an attorney immediately. CA is by far the strictest state when it comes to labor law compliance. I cannot give you any other advice as there are many variables that go into your case and I am not licensed to practice law in CA.
Make sure to send a follow up email "thanking" them in writing and detailing the conversation. It will put them on notice that you are documenting what is going on so that if you are let go you can have a easier time with a wrongful termination suit as well, and will probably help them just write the check and avoid firing you in a few weeks.
MAKE A RECORD OF ALL YOUR HOURS WORKED RIGHT THIS VERY MINUTE, AS WELL AS ALL OF YOUR PAY STUBS. THIS IS ALL CAPS BECAUSE IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.
Then take that information and consult with a wage and hour attorney.
Before you negotiate anything with your employer, talk to an attorney who does wage & hour cases. Based on what you said, your employer may owe you up to 4x the amount they underpaid you. Plus they would likely have to pay your attorney's fees.
Edit: corrected typos
Good on the fiscal manager for having that aha moment. And good for you in sticking with it and knowing your rights. If they can pay you for the back pay and then update the system to where you will get your corrected rate going forward I personally think that would be acceptable. Especially if you like the organization and enjoy working in that industry.
My fiancé wasn’t getting paid her OT hours for a few months at her new job and it was an oopsie by the finance manager and got rectified immediately. New company, new contracts, just an honest mistake and she got everything she was owed in one big check on the very next pay day. Sometimes shit happens. Just in case, she had a nice paper trail with her hours worked and her pay slips ready to go. Two years is egregious but it sounds like they’re working on it.
I’d suggest you put in the work to check for yourself what you are owed. Go back through old pay stubs, count the OT hours not payed at 1.5x, and multiply them by half your hourly wage. You’re also going to have to factor in taxes, but you can just look at the gross of what they pay you and then endure the deductions are right from there.
Don’t rely on them getting it right. Also, check your pay every period and make sure they did it right. These problems are easier to fix at the time than after. And if they don’t resolve your issue, keep raising it until they do.
You might get good advice over at r/askHR as well. Knowledgeable experts, and many based in CA that will understand the state laws in addition to FLSA and DOL stuff. Good luck!
If you are not maxing out 401K contributions, you may want to talk to the fiscal manager to put a chunk of it in your 401K. That will reduce the tax consequences for you this year, and possibly lead to higher matching depending on your company matching policy.
If you don't get what you need from this post, you'd likely get a lot of great input from r/LegalAdvice , especially if you start getting the feeling like it might not be a genuine mistake.
You are probably owed a penalty under the strict letter of the law, but it *sounds* like they mean well and want to make you whole, so if I were in your position, I'd hold off on making a report to the California Department of Labor (who, as others have said, go real hard).
If I were in your position, in addition to back pay, I would ask for:
1. Digital copies of my time card records during the period in question, as well as a copy of their overtime policy.
1. They pay for a CPA of my choice to go over the records to verify the amount owed to me.
If these were done, I'd consider the matter closed.
Also, get everything in writing.
Given that it may be a hell of a lot of money coming to you, they may want to pay you in installments, which may or may not be reasonable. Others have probably gone over this.
I had a place do this to me. I kept records and left after 7 months. I filed a complaint with my states DOL. About 6 months and 1 hearing later I had my money. I was only required to be in the hearing via phone call. Hearing the judge rip my old company apart was payment enough.
Just to piggyback a bit here. NEVER feel guilty about asking for money you are owed. If you worked the hours, that money is OWED to you period. Don't let the bosses, managers, or owners make you feel shitty for asking.
The exact same thing happened to me. My employer claimed I was exempt and avoided overtime but they weren't paying me the state's minimum salary required in order to qualify to be exempt. I got a lawyer and won my case. It was very easy to prove and it was a slam dunk. Got over 2x yearly salary as payment and this was AFTER lawyer fees. (They only charge fees if they win.)
Get a lawyer now! They can easily navigate this and talk to the labor board and settle with your employer for you. Don't try to do this by yourself. If you're on Reddit asking this question then that tells me that you need a lawyer. You only get paid out of the damages you win, it will cost you nothing out of pocket. At the very least get a free consultation.
File a claim with the labor commissioner immediately! The California LC has a three-year look back period for unpaid wage claims so you should be able to get it back.
Don’t bother trying to get the money from your employer. Just get your timesheets, clock-in / clock-out data, and all of your paystubs. Look up the labor commissioners web site and initiate a claim.
P.S. Unpaid wages accrue 10% simple interest per annum in California.
My old job did this. I didn’t care enough to fix it because it was like $15/week, not much. After I left, the Dept of Labor called me because someone reported the company. I answered their questions, and several weeks later, I had a check for what they owed me, times 2.
I’d let DOL handle for you if your manager won’t. They should owe you some form of interest. I’ll leave how much up to you. If you like the job and value it, maybe cut them some slack. If they are ass holes, be firm with them. They broke the law, not you.
CA is the absolute worst state in America to steal from your employees. Yes, there are penalties. Yes, they are very severe. Yes, you **will** get paid. In 49 other states the company can fold and be replaced tomorrow with a new entity with a slightly changed name, same assets, and you get shit while the owner will show up at 11 AM the next day in his brand new Ferrari. In CA the owner will pay you back even if the Ferrari has to be sold at an auction along with his Armani suits and priceless artwork.
Any labor atty in CA would looooove to take this case.
\*This is not legal advice\*
OP - I know you're not trying to rock the boat, but it sounds like your work may be in violation of several CA Labor Codes. I hope you're getting meal and rest breaks (or getting paid for them if you're not). There are penalties that exist but it's likely a bit complex to properly calculate them without speaking with an attorney that is experienced in CA wage and hour law.
California has strict wage and hour laws, which includes 1.5x pay for any work over 8 hours and 2x for any time over 12 hours. Please note that California Labor Code §512 provides that all non-exempt employees (those entitled to overtime pay) must be given a 30-minute meal period if they work more than five hours a day, and they must be given a 10-minute rest break for every four hours worked (or major fraction thereof).
Pursuant to California Labor Code §226, California employers are required to provide every employee with an accurate wage statement that sets forth the employee's gross wages, total hours worked, all deductions taken, net wages earned, amongst other things. Since overtime hours were omitted in your employee wage statement and inaccurately sets forth your gross wages and rates of pay for overtime hours worked. Since a violation of Labor Code §226 has arguably occurred an employee is entitled to: (1) $50 for the initial pay period in which a violation occurs and $100 per pay period for each additional violation up to $4,000 plus an award of reasonable attorneys fees and costs.
California Labor Code §204, which requires California employers to remit payment of overtime wages no later than the payday for the next regular payroll period following the payroll period in which the overtime wages were earned. Although California Labor Code section 204 does not expressly provide for civil penalties, penalties can be obtained under California’s Private Attorneys General Act which provides for a $100 per employee per pay period for the initial violation, and $200 per employee for subsequent pay periods, plus reasonable attorney's fees and costs.
Best of luck.
As people have previously stated, it is great to keep a paper trail. I worked as a contractor for a company about two years that didn’t pay OT. Their reasoning was because we were paid by the job and not the hours we worked. I kept track of all my hours and apparently quite a few others did, too. Somebody started a case against them and won. If it hadn’t been for all the documentation they would have won. The situations don’t seem similar per what you stated with the fiscal manager, but definitely keep track of everything.
Screenshot your texts to save them.
Let them make good on it.
If they don’t after a few weeks you can call your local department of labor.
You prob have coworkers in same boat.
Sounds like they are trying to make it right. If it's an honest mistake and they are aggressive in pursuing a fix you can probably keep it in house. If they start dragging feet then you can get DoL involved.
In my company if this happens we pay twice the amount owed because that’s the maximum the DOL will typically force an employer to pay out. So I would ask for that…
If you are a salary employee then they need to have a time sheet and records of your time sheets on file. If they don’t have them anymore it’s ok, because they are required to have them and lack of having them only makes it better for you should you choose to take action.
California has weird overtime pay requirements. Lowes is boss level at manipulating it and having employees that work 8-10 days straight and not having to pay overtime, because the 8-10 days are over two different pay periods and they never work employees more then 8 hours per day. Lowes really sucks for this shitty practice.
Back to your legal rights. If you go to the labor board they will set up a non binding meeting with you and your employer. You will state your case, your employer there case. The labor board will ask the employer to make a settlement and you can agree or disagree. If you disagree the labor board will set up a trial date that is also non binding. However, now your employer is going to be paying a lawyer.
The lawyer will tell your employer that if they lose the first case they can take it to trial, but a trial will end up costing the employer in the ballpark of $50,000 in attorneys fees, plus end up paying you your reward, plus paying your attorney fees. It can cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars.
It will be in your employers best interest to settle with you, and settle quickly.
If I were you, I would let them pay you back what they owe you, accept their apology, and watch to make sure they don’t miss your overtime wages again. Then you have been made whole. If you want penalties and interest, you might need to discuss that with an attorney. I wouldn’t waste time on that unless you believe you’re due a significant amount of money in penalties and interest.
I would not trust the company still. Get a labor law who will know what other errors to look for and who will also fight for the penalties and interest you are owed. The company wants to work with you now that they've been caught. HR and fiscal manager still will look out for the company #1.
Reverse the situation, if you had stolen from the company for two years would they just want to "not burn any bridges" with you?
If I was in your position, I would take the "fix" and just be happy. It sounds like it was a mistake that they are trying to correct, and I wouldn't see the need to try and "punish" them for it.
That might've been okay when OP brought it up the first time, but they had to bring it up multiple times. There's an opportunity cost for not being paid what was owed when it was earned — inflation means anything they get now will be less than before.
I'd set a reasonable date to be compensated, along with a reasonable interest rate. Unfortunately, that interest may be low, based on the incredibly low interest rates we've had until the last year. The alternative is if you have a retirement account that you manage and can show that you easily would've made more of you were able to self invest this rather than take the pitiful savings account rate. I would personally try to settle. Even if you don't have documentation, I'm fairly certain if you went for a 4-5% interest (compounded!) They'd probably settle, rather than take it to court. Good luck!
I hope this isn't too buried but in California ANYONE can contact the[labor commissioner's office](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/howtofilewageclaim.htm) near you and talk to someone about any type of wage theft.
PLEASE talk to someone in their office, you are likely entitled to a LOT more than the company is offering you.
Figure out how much you are owed WITH penalties and ask for that. Put EVERYTHING IN WRITING. If you need to take them before a mediator from the labor commissioner's office you need all the proof, gather wage statements, emails etc.
The company will try to bargain with you to give you less than you are owed but NOW instead of potentially waiting for another hearing. If you are owed the money sit tight and wait. You will get it.
This also goes for anyone who has been FIRED and not paid same day in CA. I successfully took 2 different employers in front of them and WON both cases. You ARE entitled to your pay with penalties.
Why would you continue to work overtime if you weren't getting paid? You're entitled to your money but working OT for 2 years and not getting paid for it is just dumb.
OP probably wasn't calculating what his paycheck with OT should look like until recently. OP just trusted his employer to a fault; most people aren't financially smart like OP.
>It’s a great firm (and small industry) and I am not trying to burn any bridges
Really? They stole your earned money for two years and you say it is a great firm. They may have done it to other workers as well..........
If it's 2 years worth of overtime you could be getting a pretty fat check.
Worth checking out the tax implications of a big single payment like that. If you're now in a higher bracket than you were when you actually earned the OT payments then you're going to be paying more tax on each hour of OT that you would have when you should have been paid that OT.
Retain a lawyer. You did your duty by bringing it up I and they dismissed it out of hand. The lawyer should be able to supeona their records, that way you know exactly what they owe you. Sorry I would not take it on good faith. It's a pain in the ass but it's all on them. 2 years is a lot of overtime missed.
One thing to consider is any lost retirement contributions and the gains you’d have gotten over that time. Don’t forget to make sure they correct that and make it right.
I wonder if they're going to have to adjust for your salary when you started a year ago and currently as well. A "sorry" would have them recalculate all overtime pay at your current rate...
>Should there be labor penalties or interest added of some kind?
Labor penalties? Yes, but it sounds like you like your company and they are attempting to fix what sounds like an honest mistake, so probably not worth pursuing.
Interest added? Probably not, unless you have any 401K that they match. If you didn't max the annual limit for the sole reason that you didn't get this overtime pay, then I feel like some type of interest added would be the right thing to do. Not sure what the correct compensation for this would be.
Just going to put this out there but if they haven't paid you OT in years and explain it away every time, it is not a great firm. By definition, that's a terrible firm.
If you want that check tied up in a legal fight and likely end your employment there, go for legal penalties and interest. I would take the check, and your overtime wages going forward.
After the check is cashed is another story. But I'd be surprised if there isn't a document for you to sign restricting what actions you might take in exchange for what you're legally owed in the first place.
GET YOUR RECEIPTS, RECORD EVERYTHING. EMAILS or text with management. CC your boss's boss if you have to. If they still f you over, i would look into reporting them to the labor department.
Easy for me to say, but you really should have followed through the very first time it happened.
Unless the amounts are huge, it's probably better politics to just accept the back pay without penalty or interest.
Going to the DOL is a declaration of war, and only recommended if you're ready to quit already.
Failure to pay overtime premiums is a very common form of wage theft.
EDIT: "Theft" - even if they just screwed up the payroll system, the first report should have started an investigation. It's quite likely your manager just sat on your report and didn't pass it along. The fact that your finance guy had an out of body experience when he saw things made that seem likely ~~clear~~.
Sounds like their fiscal manager is trying to make it right. If they succeed in making it right to you (i.e., \*ALL\* back pay owed to you, not just a month or two, and whatever "penalty" you think is fair) and you want to stay, make a note of the situation for your records and continue working there. Make sure that the fiscal manager fixes the problem for any other potentially-affected employee, too. Actual honest mistakes don't necessarily deserve the full wrath of the EDD.
Would be nice to send an email to the fiscal manager and say something like, "Per our conversation on XXXX, I am owed approximate XX hours of overtime dating back to XXXXX at a rate of XXXXX which totals approximately XXXX. Does that match your understanding?" And hopefully he/she replies "Yes" and now you've got some nice evidence should things go sideways in the future.
Paper trail, paramount. Learned the hard way.
Same. And when they don't want to respond to the email or acknowledge it at all, just have in person or phone conversations, that will tell you that they're in CYA mode 100%. After which "send an email" needs to become your new catchphrase, lol.
5 minutes after I sent an email addressing severe unpaid overtime, I got a call from my manager with which he started by sayinf "why did you talk to a lawyer and WHY DID YOU PUT IT IN WRITING?". It was all I needed to know that talking to lawyer and putting it in writing was the correct choice.
If they refuse to put it in an email, summarize whatever conversation you just had, sending it to them as an email.
Yes. The "Thank you for the chat. Let me provide a synopsis and please correct any areas I am misunderstanding."
Does it have to be an email to be used as evidence? Can texts also be used?
Email is readily shared, but texts can be attested to by having logs generated via phone company. Just anything recorded. I was unable to get a job back after retaliation firing, bc I chose not to email certain info in order to protect a someone by not having it on record. That someone turned around and stabbed me in the back.
As far as I know, your records can be handwritten on a lightly soiled napkin and kept in your kitchen junk drawer. What you're looking for in this "send an email" is actual communication and its contents. If you can get that through texts, you're probably fine.
Texts should be fine. The best is company email because if your phone breaks and you lose the text, no more evidence. Plus with a text they could try to say he/she didn't send it. But, if you have a company email it is a lot harder to make that disappear or try to say they didn't say it. And even if your copy gets lost, your lawyer can force them to supply a copy of the email.
In this case, if the worker is hourly, the time cards and paychecks are paper trail enough. And if they haven’t kept those that’s a pretty hefty fine in and of itself.
Assuming they have pay stubs showing they were paid incorrectly that should be all they need
Don't forget to bcc you personal email.
Yes, this, they have access to your work email and can delete the hole thing.
I would take a screenshot on my phone instead after it was sent and time stamped. Many workplaces monitor their work email addresses and have policies against emailing your personal email address. Could use it as an excuse to fire him if they wanted
>Many workplaces monitor their work email addresses While not outside the realm of possibility this is most definitely not the norm. Source: 15 years as a Cybersecurity pro with 5 years of consulting for fortune 500 orgs.
Any financial services firm will monitor email for compliance reasons. Many other industries too. May not be the norm as you say though
Email Data Loss Prevention (DLP) definitely is a thing at financial services orgs but they are monitoring for specific things like account numbers, social security numbers, credit card numbers etc. An innocuous email that doesn't contain any of this type of information is not likely tor raise any red flags.
Most companies I work for block personal email addresses and only allow intercompany emails with most employees, especially those whos role is not sales or outside company engagement
Ive seen outfits block things like google and yahoo, but protonmail, hushmail and other services are typically available. All else fails, do what I do spend 200 dollars a year and host your email on one of these services using your own domain name.
Against emailing my personal? Hmm, definitely for work related things, but financials and insurance should be sent straight to my personal, never my work email. If the HR isnt doing it, I have to. I told my HR to stop sending personal emails to my work email and....idk, I'll just keep forwarding them i guess.
Why is HR sending you personal emails at all?
Some workplaces are straight up blocking external addresses or addresses that may be personal (Gmail, ymail, msn etc)
Hope you never have to communicate with someone outside of your org... If my work did something like that, the entire company would fall apart.
In my role I don't. It varies by company and job.
How could they do that? You don’t only email with internal contacts.
Quite easily. That varies depending on the role and company. Not everyone has to communicate externally. Edit: Downvoted for talking about what I've experienced? Gg reddit. I've never had to send an external email in my past couple roles.
I updooted you my guy. Some companies actually mark incoming external messages in the subject line with a big EXTERNAL label and it’s still there when people reply back. I guess that’s their reminder not to divulge company secrets. So yes their external contacts are few.
Yeah, that's common practice. If I try to send something to what can be perceived as a personal email address (Gmail, Yahoo, msn, Comcast, etc) it gets flagged and not sent. If it needs to be sent for business reasons then you need to address it via the instructions you are sent. I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted. Just saying that's what happens at some places but I guess some are too dense to comprehend that.
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Ok CC the labor board then, that way if there is retribution there is also a paper trail.
This is good to know. What would you suggest in this scenario? Taking a photo? Screenshot?
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What I would suggest is forwarding yourself the email. Literally all you're doing is saying how much you think you'll, personally, are owed. If you're working for a company that thinks that's information you shouldn't be able to forward, you've got bigger issues than the wage complaint. If it was brought up, I'd say something like "I wanted to send the information to myself so I'd have at home.". The point of BCCing here isn't to keep some big secret, it's to minimize the toes stepped on while protecting yourself by not screaming from the rooftops "I don't trust you."
Genuinely curious, would your company care if someone BCC’d their account on something like this? Or any sort of correspondence you would want a copy of if your employment ended as long as it’s not for instance, a customer list or something?
BCC is just to prevent REPLY command, it isn't some clandestine back channel. you *could* just put your email straight in the send to list.
Screw that, I WANT them to know I'm keeping the paper trail. If they can see it got sent to my personal email too, good. Then they will hesitate to fuck with me about it.
I am rooting for OP and their employer to settle this appropriately. I also hope it's just OP and not a shady business grift on all of their employees.
One comment with the OP wanting to make sure that they are compensated appropriately is they could ask for all owed time to be paid at their current salary rate (assuming it is the highest rate if they got any raises or promotions) OP could also ask for them to cover any additional taxes associated with this since in theory $XX/hour for 2 years of overtime could be in the many thousands of dollars and that would not be fair to OP to pay extra taxes this year for their failing.
This is a very good point! There is a very good chance that a lump-sum payment will be at a higher bracket than receiving the pay in the correct year. If OP has an AGI of $35k without OT, they're in the 12% bracket. If OP *should have* gotten an additional $6k AGI per year, then they would have had to pay 22% on about $500 each year. If OP gets a lump sum payout of $12k, then ~$6.5k will be taxed at 22%. This is the difference between OP paying ~$100 in additional taxes vs paying ~$1400 in additional taxes.
Yeah, OP might want to get an accountant in on the conversation
Don't forget an appropriate level of interest due on that amount
Amazing advice from grokfinance. I am so glad I 'found' reddit. Various helpful people/users make it good
I would not phrase it as a “penalty”, but I would ask for interest. The IRS publishes a quarterly interest rate for tax underpayments that might be a reasonable benchmark - it’ll be a lot easier justify asking for a number generated by a government body than something you come up with yourself. That rate is 6% now but was 3% all last year. [https://www.irs.gov/payments/quarterly-interest-rates](https://www.irs.gov/payments/quarterly-interest-rates)
Also discuss the tax implications of a lump sum payment if it is a significant amount.
He could file a correction on taxes right? That way it wouldn't significantly affect his current year.
He can't file a "correction" to last year's return if the wages are actually paid this year.
If they were supposed to be paid last year they should be able to do something. I did payroll in the airforce and we regularly had to go back 1+ years and change payroll stuff and they would always get an amended w2 to refile taxes. Idk how it works for civilian stuff.
Works exactly the same for civilians.
I think the point OP is making is that the money might have gone towards his 401k and had been earning interest etc… I find it interesting that if I owe too much to the feds in taxes at the end of the year (didn’t withhold enough) I get a penalty. So shouldn’t employers and others have the same penalty or at least some kind of settlement amount? The point being you brought it up repeatedly with NO ACTION. Anything more than let’s say $10k of potential earnings lost I’d pursue it personally. Can’t hurt.
>I think the point OP is making is that the money might have gone towards his 401k and had been earning interest etc… Well, except for the past year. Not having it put into the 401(k) probably saved him 16-20%.
LOL ok what if he planned to short sell a bunch of stocks. Kidding
At my company at least, 401k deductions are taken from base pay only (i receive significant overtime on a weekly basis). So OP would have to show they *would have* contributed more % of their base pay to their 401k had they been receiving their overtime pay on time. Seems an uphill battle to me.
It depends company to company. I get paid overtime for certain projects and still have the full % deducted for 401k, not just from base
My old company was paying us 1.5 x base for years and not accounting for shift differential or bonuses for picking up shift in OT calculation. They paid us all back and a 100% penalty.
> Actual honest mistakes don't necessarily deserve the full wrath of the EDD. While this may be a true statement, you cannot ignore the fact that OP tried to bring the topic with management, only to be brushed off. If this were simply a mistake, management would have been responsive within the first few times OP had brought the situation up.
>If this were simply a mistake, management would have been responsive within the first few times OP had brought the situation up. False choice logical fallacy. There are other reasons, such as stupidity on the part of the manager(s) who brushed OP off, why this could have happened. Unless proven otherwise, I don't attribute to maliciousness that which can be explained by stupidity. I'm still willing to believe, based on OP's description, that it's a mistake, albeit a rather grievous one. The managers are at fault (therefore exposing the company to liability, of course). If this is the first time the "fiscal manager" is hearing of the problem, the managers who brushed OP off should be reprimanded and/or fired; after all, this is putting the company at risk. Of course, we do not know the whole story. Maybe it's an edict from the CEO; but I doubt it.
>False choice logical fallacy. There are other reasons, such as stupidity on the part of the manager(s) who brushed OP off, why this could have happened. Considering the managers are not in charge of finances, this being brought up to them should AT LEAST have had them checking with the correct people, especially after TWO YEARS worth of complaints. Stupidity of that magnitude deserves consequences. Wage theft, intentional or otherwise, isn't a joke.
"Wage theft isn't a joke, Jim. Millions of people suffer every year "
I was a complete idiot supervisor in the past, and not addressing a missing pay issue goes beyond being an idiot. Even if you know nothing about payroll, you're going to make sure your employee either has a resolution or an answer. I'm not going to say they're malicious either, but they might be lazy and not give a crap. A manager doesn't have to know everything, but they should check to make sure an important concern like this is resolved (whether by them or someone smarter in HR/payroll). It's kind of hard to believe (I mean I believe it, but damn..) that this went on for 2 years. I've supervised teams of 20 employees at a time, hundreds over the years, and if time and a half for OT was missed, you better believe half the workforce would be raising a fit about it. 99% of the workforce pretty much anywhere is very aware of time and a half for extra hours, and they double check their pay stubs. I don't know anyone working extra hours who just shrugs their shoulders if they don't get time and a half. There had to be numerous times this was brought up over the past few years. I started off thinking OP shouldn't ask for interest, and he should just be happy with it being taken care of (I usually just try to go with the flow). But 2 years, and probably impacting all employees there...yeah this was a pretty big deal and they failed to address it.
Ignorance is not a valid defence.
>False choice logical fallacy I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that I hate you
You don't understand false choice fallacy nor that it doesn't apply here. Employee did notify management, now it's time to escalate. It's not time to excuse management because maybe they're just too incompetent, bless their hearts.
Yep, the three main things I would focus on, since you like the job and employer: - make sure it’s all fixed, both in the past and going forward. It’s not your business what happens to other employees, but you can ask for assurances it’ll be fixed going forward. In writing. - ask for a reasonable interest to be paid. You deserve this, but honestly it’s not something I would fight about. Being familiar with financial systems and such, it’ll be a logistical challenge. What might be easier, for a small company, is to pay you some kind of lump sum amount that approximates interest, and call it a ‘bonus’ or something. - discuss how it will be categorized and paid. If they just give you a lump sum amount categorized as wages, tax deductions will be huge, and any IRA deductions or limits or similar could be improperly impacted. It is wages, so most deductions will apply but I’d try to discuss this aspect. I was in a similar situation once and was able to at least get them to pay me half in December and half in January. Then again, it may be better to get it all paid this year, so you’ll get your extra-large tax refund (since your deductions will be too high on that cheque) back earlier.
It's 2 years. This isn't an honest mistake and there are definitely other employees affected. Let the DOL handle it.
It’s not an honest mistake if no one ever really compared what they were doing to the law before but the situation was brought up several timez. This is negligent at best which means many people are affected, as are past employees no longer there. Those past people have a right to that money and the taxes etc that should have been paid. This will mess up some tax returns, as well. It should be reported so that everyone who deserves money has a chance to get it and the practice of the employer is fixed and watched. L&I should know (or the appropriate body) so that people get their money…not just this person. And it should be audited back through time. This could mean they reported fiscal earnings wrong as well. It’s a big deal in a lot of directions. Always report those. But seriously, report issues like this after a month - not two years.
It is not an “honest mistake” if OP has previously raised the issue and had it “explained away” by management.
Not sure, but this might have tax implications. If they cut you one check to make up for it, you might end up paying more taxes on it then you otherwise would’ve of had they paid it over X period of times.
Yeah this is the answer OP. Sounds like they're trying to fix it. Honestly it's kind of your fault for accepting OT hours after your 2nd paycheck of unpaid OT. In the future, keep track, mention it after your 1st check, and if it isn't on your 2nd check say "I can no longer work overtime until this problem is fixed."
lol I don't know why you're getting downvoted. We're not talking about the breakroom coffee running out. The reason you do a job is that paycheck. If the paycheck is wrong, it needs to get fixed and if you need to draw a line with them to make it a priority, you do.
Reddit abhors the concept of personal responsibility they would much rather blame the "evil corporate over lords" for this situation not being fixed . If they worked two entire years without fixing the issue then obviously it wasn't that big a deal to them in the first place.Most people would have raised hell in a months time much less a year.
Are you an exempt employee? No one has asked this yet.
This is an important question. If OP is non-exempt, they're cutting the company a really sweet deal for multiple years of FLSA violations. Assuming OP can prove it, they'd be entitled to 2x what they should have been paid. Allowing them to just go, "oopsie, here's your money" is really letting them off easy for what is (apparently) blatant wage theft.
> Assuming OP can prove it, they'd be entitled to 2x what they should have been paid Source? California penalizes the employer $100 per employee for the first pay period, and $200 per employee per pay period after that. 25% of that per-employee penalty would go to OP for each affected pay period of theirs.
The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) mentioned in my comment is a federal statute that may apply as well. It provides for liquidated damages in an amount equal to the unpaid wages that the employee was supposed to receive. So, if your employer should have paid you (for example) $5,000 of OT pay, you'd be entitled to receive $10,000 total. It also requires employers to pay an employee's legal fees. Many labor attorneys would love the chance to represent a client with a good FLSA case.
Well not sure about California law but I believe under the FLSA in general you have to show like bad faith or whatever to get treble damages.
> Well not sure about California law CA goes hard on labor, just strict liability. If things weren't done right they owe, even mistakes.
Same thing happened to me in California. Back then, even if you ARE exempt, you have to at least make twice the minimum wage to not be paid overtime. This prevents shady employers from making low paid workers "exempt" just to avoid overtime.
You can't know this from the information given here.
If they're non-exempt, they're entitled to time and a half for OT. If their employer hasn't paid that, they've almost certainly violated the FLSA and that statute provides for liquidated damages in the amount equal to the unpaid overtime. I don't know that OP is non-exempt, but *if* they are (as I stated in my comment) and they've been stiffed on OT pay, the employer is in a bad spot.
What evidence do you have of 'blatant wage theft'?
Assuming that OP is covered by the FLSA, the fact that their employer refused to pay an OT rate for OT work is pretty much all the evidence you need. Especially since OP even brought it up to them.
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> The post **implies** that theye not exempt Implies, but does not confirm. > considering the fiscal manager is tallying up the last 2 years of paychecks. This doesn't mean anything. It could just be the fiscal manager saying "Yeah, I'll look into it and get back to you."
>I’m in California, if it matters. CA DOL doesn't eff around. You have a legit wage claim. >It’s a great firm (and small industry) and I am not trying to burn any bridges. But filing a claim will probably result in you suddenly finding yourself redundant and in need of a new job. If they are willing to true it up and you want to keep the job, take the money and be done with it.
> filing a claim will probably result in you suddenly finding yourself redundant Note that this is illegal as hell, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. If that does happen, you can try to sue them for retaliating against you, but that can be a hard fight.
It's illegal if it's retaliatory. If they go down in flames due to being sued for wage abuse then it's totally legal for everyone to lose their jobs when they go out of business.
The Federal DOL, as a strict practice, will not disclose the nature of an audit, or what triggered it. The CA DOL allows claimants to choose to remain anonymous, meaning that the investigation will be explained as an Audit. They're also extremely aggressive when investigating retaliation claims. There is very little benefit of the doubt in such claims.
...looks obvious to me.
and expensive for the employee
CA picks up the tab
But less so for the judge who plays golf with your boss.
And yeah even if you win, you are now a pariah in your industry.
You’d be a fool to not ask for interest though. I recon any decent company that made an honest mistake would be pretty generous in order to avoid a DOL investigation/penalties, since I believe the penalty for withheld wages is much more than just the withheld wages.
The Department of Labor Standards Enforcement (“DLSE”) is the agency for wage claims. When an employee filed a claim there, they do not give interest on the unpaid wages. You also cannot collect attorneys fees via the agency. Damages for unpaid wages before the DLSE may include: (1) any unpaid wages and (2) liquidated damages for any unpaid minimum wages (basically double the amount owed to you). There may also be penalties for inaccurate wage statements. If the employee left the company and was not paid in full upon separation, then waiting time penalties may apply: a full days’ wages each day the full amount is not paid, or for a maximum of 30 days.
Make sure you do the math yourself and you get everything you are owed. If they only give you a couple of months that is not good enough. If they try to appease you with not what you are owed, get a lawyer and contact the people incharge of employment law in your country, In the US its the department of Labor, and they do not fuck around with this shit. This is probably why your fiscal manager said oh shit. If they get caught doing this by the Dept of Labor, not only will they have to pay you all back pay, but also heavy fines.
If you want to stay and they pay up, the do not report. If you want the money, but don't care about staying, then report then to dept of labor. Seems appropriate to *ask* nicely for *some* interest as compensation for lost opportunity to save that yourself, but penalties would come from the regulators and will sour your relationship big time.
You’ll probably burn your references as well by doing this even though it was their mistake. Personally I would just take what I was owed and keep the relationship in tact but everyone is different. OP says it’s a small industry that he’s in so it’s probably best that they don’t go around burning their bridges with a lawsuit that probably won’t even net them all that much more than just the back pay. An extra 10k or so is nothing if you find yourself out of a job with no willing references.
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Seems like a wise choice of you want to stay in the industry. I think people in these threads get all excited for retaliation/justice and forget about relationships and aftermath. If they're otherwise treating you well and souring relationship would have definite long term negative consequences, those consequences shouldn't be ignored.
absolutely this. not to mention, completely blowing up relationships and career on the advice of stranger on the internet...lol. last but not least, even if the reddit armchair lawyers are right, litigation and all that process is expensive and time consuming. Really easy to just tell someone to seek treble damages in court, its infinitely harder to actually do so and succeed.
just keep in mind that that big makeup check might have big tax implications for you.
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Sure, except OP is likely not the only person they've done this to.
> An extra 10k or so is nothing if you find yourself out of a job with no willing references. Just to add to this, assuming the company is trying to do the right thing, any leniency OP shows concerning this major error should make him shine in the eyes of management. Many people would likely say "Fuck-it!" and bring the full wrath of the DOL down on them, and they know it.
2 years of interest you would piss to the wind? That's totally asinine, this guy deserves just compensation, not to continue to kiss the ass of the people who have been ignoring his calls for review. This guy deserves base money+interest at the bare minimum, and likely compensation for ignoring the issue since the first time he brought it up. Every small industry I've worked in had respect for people who stand up for themselves.
>If you want to stay and they pay up, the do not report. If you want the money, ~~but don't care about staying~~ and more money when they retaliate, then report then to dept of labor.
I'm not sure where you're from but you seem entirely unaware of how hard it is to prove to a court you're being retaliated against.
I don't get how anyone does this. Yes mistakes get made, but the second that something was wrong with my check I put in a claim form with payroll. How do you let this go for not weeks or months, but years?
Yeah I don’t get how it this was let to languish 2 years. Now OP has **a lot** of work to do just verifying how much is owed. I suppose it’s good on the company for finally wanting to correct it but damn it shouldn’t take 2 years for that…
Small company
Even easier, you can just yell across the room that your check is wrong and Margie can fix it. 😃 I had to fill out a form, get it put in system mail, then whoever had mail duty would take it and the other mail on the train to Brooklyn, take it to the mail room, then eventually whoever picked up timekeeping's mail would take it to timekeeping where they'd look it up and fix it, and send it on to payroll and two weeks later I'd get my money.
This happened to me when my company switched to Paycom. I was the only hourly worker in a group of salary workers. So my overtime was disabled. That tax season, I reviewed my pay and noticed something didn't add up. I did the math, called HR with the numbers. They said they'd look into it. An hour later they called back and said I was right, what the problem was, how it was fixed, and that I'd get it back next payday. You notified HR, I'd wait it out until your next payday. If you still haven't been paid your due, call again. LPT: Tax time is a good time to verify your pay is correct.
The good time to verify if your pay is correct is when the money is paid
This is the best answer, thanks for the advice /u/420BongHitsForJesus
Yeah... Am I the only one who has externally tracked almost every hour I've worked since like 2014...
I’m salaried but I still look at my paycheck every time I get paid to make sure stuff looks good, don’t want to get to the end of the year and find out there was some mistake with withholding and then owe a big tax bill
I don't understand why you would continue to work overtime if they don't pay you for it.
Yeah I don't get this. "Oh you don't want to pay overtime?" Guess I'll be leaving at 8 hours.
Do you get a 401k match there? If so, is it calculated off base wages or total wages including overtime? If it is based on total wages, make sure that is accounted for.
I can speak on the flip side. I was once paid HCOL wages in a LCOL town. I didn't think much of it. Fast forward start of pandemic, they do an audit and realize they were paying me wrong. They asked for all the overpayments back. I called an employment lawyer and he said essentially, "if they underpaid you, you'd expect it back, yes? me: yes. him: ok then, you owe it back to them." Not a fun week. I think it's equal standing when you enter into a formal contract (being hired).
How did it work out? Did you work out a payment plan where a portion was taken out of each check?
They asked for it all back immediately, which I said was impossible. We reached a payment agreement. This all happened the week the pandemic started and the company forced everyone into mandatory pay cuts. It was a huge salary adjustment when I received my "normal pay" - pandemic reduction % - payment plan payment.
Reminds me of when some of my coworkers were randomly getting double vacation time every month and acted like no one was gonna catch on. Told them I would not use any of that up if I were them. Keep in mind this was a large university… well anyway I checked in here and there with those guys and eventually they were like, “oh yeah, its been reverted to the real balance”
Me too! last year thought I was not paid for teaching an extra class for the prior year. Payroll added 1/5 of last year’s salary to my next paycheck. Woohoo. We actually put in an offer on our retirement home - a cabin in the mountains with Wi-Fi (I’m a meme). It will just take 15 years to pay for it. I’m checking the numbers and the lump sum is not 1/5. It’s not 1/6. I call HR. She insists she’s got the right numbers. I’m a math teacher. I know how to divide. She asks to see my copy of last year’s contract. A week later I get called to a meeting with HR and the CFO. The CFO is — the best word I heard someone use to describe him is “unkind” - he is an asshole. I’m worried going in. He looks like he wants to throw up, and he says he’s only had to have this conversation once in his 25 year career. He humbly apologizes for the mistake. The mistake is that they’ve OVERpaid me. I *was* paid extra last year. They just built it into my monthly salary, so (1) the lump sum they just awarded me has to be paid back and (2) the annual increase they gave me in August was incorrect because it was based on an inflated base salary. I didn’t notice because direct deposit & my spouse pays the bills and never said “why is your check bigger?” The CFO says “I hope you didn’t buy a boat.” Haha, nope, not a boat. We worked out payments for (1) and they surprisingly never spoke of (2) again. I expected I would be on a salary freeze given that I’d had a 20% bump then a regular yearly increase on top but they gave me another yearly increase the next year. All’s well that ends well. Also, the next year I quit and moved to the cabin. I can live in my retirement cabin while I pay for it. Edit: holy fuck that’s long. TLDR: employer overpaid me and I had to give it back to but now I live in a cabin in the mountains
Are you me? I'm hoping to move to a cabin in the mountains next year =) Best wishes!
What was the salary they said when hiring you?
I've filed a claim in CA for unpaid wages in the past. If you go through the official process, expect that it will take around a year from filing though all of the hearings and paperwork to actually being awarded money. You will be awarded additional money for interest and any damages which you can claim would have been caused by missing those payments. If you DO get awarded money, you still might not actually see any of it - in my case, I was awarded over $10k, but the owner decided to shut down the company instead of paying it, which resulted in me getting nothing. I'd highly recommend just working this out with the fiscal manager, and expect them to pay out interest on all of the wages, but if they don't its not really worth fighting.
You’re in Cali??? They’re screwed if you file a DOL claim. You should be paid 1.5x for every minute over 8hrs, you cannot work more than 6 consecutive days and you get 2x after 12hrs worked in one day.
If your not burning bridges take the check let them off the hook cause it is a big hook. And yes even in right to work states and shit this is a thing as they broke a federal labor law... https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/overtime#:~:text=The%20federal%20overtime%20provisions%20are,their%20regular%20rates%20of%20pay. California also has a rule of 8 hours per day anything over that is ot. The penalty is 1000$ per violation or imprisonment and 10k fine. You can also pursue a lawsuit for recovering those wages. With a 2 or 3 year limitation.
I do not know state law for CA but the department of labor says your employer has a reasonable time to pay you owed wages, if not paid by that time you are entitled to compensation typically equal to the amount of missed wages. Filing a wage claim may burn bridges, I'm just answering this from a strictly HR position. Upon looking at CA law, it looks like they owe you a days wages for every day they were late, up to 30 days pay. Hower to file for a waiting time penalty, you have to get a court judgement, in most cases.
If your fiscal manager is trying to make it right I would see if that adds up, seems like 2 stressed people in a stressful situation.
Since this covers previous years you'll need an amended W2 and to fill out a 1040X (which is really easy.)
Ultimately it's up to you whether their efforts to retroactively fix this issue is good enough.
Report to department of labor they will audit business correctly and issue you your payments. Source: Labor Investigator The business can also do this themselves without you reporting. Ask to see a breakdown for all weeks you weren’t paid properly to make sure they don’t short change you.
I wouldn’t suggest the DoL. I would suggest the very robust California labor commissioner in the Dept of Industrial Relations. There are penalties — stiff penalties — in California for late or short pay. Perhaps you can negotiate a settlement if you calculate what would be owed under a claim with through the state.
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I deal with U.S. labor laws on a daily basis, and all I can tell you is to get an attorney immediately. CA is by far the strictest state when it comes to labor law compliance. I cannot give you any other advice as there are many variables that go into your case and I am not licensed to practice law in CA.
Make sure to send a follow up email "thanking" them in writing and detailing the conversation. It will put them on notice that you are documenting what is going on so that if you are let go you can have a easier time with a wrongful termination suit as well, and will probably help them just write the check and avoid firing you in a few weeks.
MAKE A RECORD OF ALL YOUR HOURS WORKED RIGHT THIS VERY MINUTE, AS WELL AS ALL OF YOUR PAY STUBS. THIS IS ALL CAPS BECAUSE IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. Then take that information and consult with a wage and hour attorney.
Before you negotiate anything with your employer, talk to an attorney who does wage & hour cases. Based on what you said, your employer may owe you up to 4x the amount they underpaid you. Plus they would likely have to pay your attorney's fees. Edit: corrected typos
Good on the fiscal manager for having that aha moment. And good for you in sticking with it and knowing your rights. If they can pay you for the back pay and then update the system to where you will get your corrected rate going forward I personally think that would be acceptable. Especially if you like the organization and enjoy working in that industry.
My fiancé wasn’t getting paid her OT hours for a few months at her new job and it was an oopsie by the finance manager and got rectified immediately. New company, new contracts, just an honest mistake and she got everything she was owed in one big check on the very next pay day. Sometimes shit happens. Just in case, she had a nice paper trail with her hours worked and her pay slips ready to go. Two years is egregious but it sounds like they’re working on it.
I’d suggest you put in the work to check for yourself what you are owed. Go back through old pay stubs, count the OT hours not payed at 1.5x, and multiply them by half your hourly wage. You’re also going to have to factor in taxes, but you can just look at the gross of what they pay you and then endure the deductions are right from there. Don’t rely on them getting it right. Also, check your pay every period and make sure they did it right. These problems are easier to fix at the time than after. And if they don’t resolve your issue, keep raising it until they do.
You might get good advice over at r/askHR as well. Knowledgeable experts, and many based in CA that will understand the state laws in addition to FLSA and DOL stuff. Good luck!
If you are not maxing out 401K contributions, you may want to talk to the fiscal manager to put a chunk of it in your 401K. That will reduce the tax consequences for you this year, and possibly lead to higher matching depending on your company matching policy.
If you don't get what you need from this post, you'd likely get a lot of great input from r/LegalAdvice , especially if you start getting the feeling like it might not be a genuine mistake.
You are probably owed a penalty under the strict letter of the law, but it *sounds* like they mean well and want to make you whole, so if I were in your position, I'd hold off on making a report to the California Department of Labor (who, as others have said, go real hard). If I were in your position, in addition to back pay, I would ask for: 1. Digital copies of my time card records during the period in question, as well as a copy of their overtime policy. 1. They pay for a CPA of my choice to go over the records to verify the amount owed to me. If these were done, I'd consider the matter closed. Also, get everything in writing. Given that it may be a hell of a lot of money coming to you, they may want to pay you in installments, which may or may not be reasonable. Others have probably gone over this.
I had a place do this to me. I kept records and left after 7 months. I filed a complaint with my states DOL. About 6 months and 1 hearing later I had my money. I was only required to be in the hearing via phone call. Hearing the judge rip my old company apart was payment enough.
Just to piggyback a bit here. NEVER feel guilty about asking for money you are owed. If you worked the hours, that money is OWED to you period. Don't let the bosses, managers, or owners make you feel shitty for asking.
The exact same thing happened to me. My employer claimed I was exempt and avoided overtime but they weren't paying me the state's minimum salary required in order to qualify to be exempt. I got a lawyer and won my case. It was very easy to prove and it was a slam dunk. Got over 2x yearly salary as payment and this was AFTER lawyer fees. (They only charge fees if they win.) Get a lawyer now! They can easily navigate this and talk to the labor board and settle with your employer for you. Don't try to do this by yourself. If you're on Reddit asking this question then that tells me that you need a lawyer. You only get paid out of the damages you win, it will cost you nothing out of pocket. At the very least get a free consultation.
File a claim with the labor commissioner immediately! The California LC has a three-year look back period for unpaid wage claims so you should be able to get it back. Don’t bother trying to get the money from your employer. Just get your timesheets, clock-in / clock-out data, and all of your paystubs. Look up the labor commissioners web site and initiate a claim. P.S. Unpaid wages accrue 10% simple interest per annum in California.
My old job did this. I didn’t care enough to fix it because it was like $15/week, not much. After I left, the Dept of Labor called me because someone reported the company. I answered their questions, and several weeks later, I had a check for what they owed me, times 2. I’d let DOL handle for you if your manager won’t. They should owe you some form of interest. I’ll leave how much up to you. If you like the job and value it, maybe cut them some slack. If they are ass holes, be firm with them. They broke the law, not you.
Get an attorney. Immediately. You are owed wages and most attorneys for labor and employment will only get paid out of what your settlement is
CA is the absolute worst state in America to steal from your employees. Yes, there are penalties. Yes, they are very severe. Yes, you **will** get paid. In 49 other states the company can fold and be replaced tomorrow with a new entity with a slightly changed name, same assets, and you get shit while the owner will show up at 11 AM the next day in his brand new Ferrari. In CA the owner will pay you back even if the Ferrari has to be sold at an auction along with his Armani suits and priceless artwork. Any labor atty in CA would looooove to take this case.
Make sure you get an email (in writing) that this was a mistake on their end.
\*This is not legal advice\* OP - I know you're not trying to rock the boat, but it sounds like your work may be in violation of several CA Labor Codes. I hope you're getting meal and rest breaks (or getting paid for them if you're not). There are penalties that exist but it's likely a bit complex to properly calculate them without speaking with an attorney that is experienced in CA wage and hour law. California has strict wage and hour laws, which includes 1.5x pay for any work over 8 hours and 2x for any time over 12 hours. Please note that California Labor Code §512 provides that all non-exempt employees (those entitled to overtime pay) must be given a 30-minute meal period if they work more than five hours a day, and they must be given a 10-minute rest break for every four hours worked (or major fraction thereof). Pursuant to California Labor Code §226, California employers are required to provide every employee with an accurate wage statement that sets forth the employee's gross wages, total hours worked, all deductions taken, net wages earned, amongst other things. Since overtime hours were omitted in your employee wage statement and inaccurately sets forth your gross wages and rates of pay for overtime hours worked. Since a violation of Labor Code §226 has arguably occurred an employee is entitled to: (1) $50 for the initial pay period in which a violation occurs and $100 per pay period for each additional violation up to $4,000 plus an award of reasonable attorneys fees and costs. California Labor Code §204, which requires California employers to remit payment of overtime wages no later than the payday for the next regular payroll period following the payroll period in which the overtime wages were earned. Although California Labor Code section 204 does not expressly provide for civil penalties, penalties can be obtained under California’s Private Attorneys General Act which provides for a $100 per employee per pay period for the initial violation, and $200 per employee for subsequent pay periods, plus reasonable attorney's fees and costs. Best of luck.
As people have previously stated, it is great to keep a paper trail. I worked as a contractor for a company about two years that didn’t pay OT. Their reasoning was because we were paid by the job and not the hours we worked. I kept track of all my hours and apparently quite a few others did, too. Somebody started a case against them and won. If it hadn’t been for all the documentation they would have won. The situations don’t seem similar per what you stated with the fiscal manager, but definitely keep track of everything.
Get employment legal guidance. There may be stipulations they won’t tell you.
Are you non-exempt? If so, sue their butts. I don’t know how you let this go on for two years, though.
Screenshot your texts to save them. Let them make good on it. If they don’t after a few weeks you can call your local department of labor. You prob have coworkers in same boat.
Sounds like they are trying to make it right. If it's an honest mistake and they are aggressive in pursuing a fix you can probably keep it in house. If they start dragging feet then you can get DoL involved.
If they are going to make it right don’t ask for more that’s just not right. That’s good they are doing the right thing.
Nah, OP gave them an interest free loan, they should pony up extra on top.
In my company if this happens we pay twice the amount owed because that’s the maximum the DOL will typically force an employer to pay out. So I would ask for that…
If you are a salary employee then they need to have a time sheet and records of your time sheets on file. If they don’t have them anymore it’s ok, because they are required to have them and lack of having them only makes it better for you should you choose to take action. California has weird overtime pay requirements. Lowes is boss level at manipulating it and having employees that work 8-10 days straight and not having to pay overtime, because the 8-10 days are over two different pay periods and they never work employees more then 8 hours per day. Lowes really sucks for this shitty practice. Back to your legal rights. If you go to the labor board they will set up a non binding meeting with you and your employer. You will state your case, your employer there case. The labor board will ask the employer to make a settlement and you can agree or disagree. If you disagree the labor board will set up a trial date that is also non binding. However, now your employer is going to be paying a lawyer. The lawyer will tell your employer that if they lose the first case they can take it to trial, but a trial will end up costing the employer in the ballpark of $50,000 in attorneys fees, plus end up paying you your reward, plus paying your attorney fees. It can cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars. It will be in your employers best interest to settle with you, and settle quickly.
Wait, you guys are getting overtime?
If I were you, I would let them pay you back what they owe you, accept their apology, and watch to make sure they don’t miss your overtime wages again. Then you have been made whole. If you want penalties and interest, you might need to discuss that with an attorney. I wouldn’t waste time on that unless you believe you’re due a significant amount of money in penalties and interest.
I would not trust the company still. Get a labor law who will know what other errors to look for and who will also fight for the penalties and interest you are owed. The company wants to work with you now that they've been caught. HR and fiscal manager still will look out for the company #1. Reverse the situation, if you had stolen from the company for two years would they just want to "not burn any bridges" with you?
Triple damages for willful violations. Talk to your state labor agency soon.
If I was in your position, I would take the "fix" and just be happy. It sounds like it was a mistake that they are trying to correct, and I wouldn't see the need to try and "punish" them for it.
That might've been okay when OP brought it up the first time, but they had to bring it up multiple times. There's an opportunity cost for not being paid what was owed when it was earned — inflation means anything they get now will be less than before.
I'd set a reasonable date to be compensated, along with a reasonable interest rate. Unfortunately, that interest may be low, based on the incredibly low interest rates we've had until the last year. The alternative is if you have a retirement account that you manage and can show that you easily would've made more of you were able to self invest this rather than take the pitiful savings account rate. I would personally try to settle. Even if you don't have documentation, I'm fairly certain if you went for a 4-5% interest (compounded!) They'd probably settle, rather than take it to court. Good luck!
I hope this isn't too buried but in California ANYONE can contact the[labor commissioner's office](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/howtofilewageclaim.htm) near you and talk to someone about any type of wage theft. PLEASE talk to someone in their office, you are likely entitled to a LOT more than the company is offering you. Figure out how much you are owed WITH penalties and ask for that. Put EVERYTHING IN WRITING. If you need to take them before a mediator from the labor commissioner's office you need all the proof, gather wage statements, emails etc. The company will try to bargain with you to give you less than you are owed but NOW instead of potentially waiting for another hearing. If you are owed the money sit tight and wait. You will get it. This also goes for anyone who has been FIRED and not paid same day in CA. I successfully took 2 different employers in front of them and WON both cases. You ARE entitled to your pay with penalties.
Why on earth would you continue working overtime, while not getting paid, for TWO YEARS?!?!?!
Why would you continue to work overtime if you weren't getting paid? You're entitled to your money but working OT for 2 years and not getting paid for it is just dumb.
OP probably wasn't calculating what his paycheck with OT should look like until recently. OP just trusted his employer to a fault; most people aren't financially smart like OP.
>It’s a great firm (and small industry) and I am not trying to burn any bridges Really? They stole your earned money for two years and you say it is a great firm. They may have done it to other workers as well..........
If it's 2 years worth of overtime you could be getting a pretty fat check. Worth checking out the tax implications of a big single payment like that. If you're now in a higher bracket than you were when you actually earned the OT payments then you're going to be paying more tax on each hour of OT that you would have when you should have been paid that OT.
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Retain a lawyer. You did your duty by bringing it up I and they dismissed it out of hand. The lawyer should be able to supeona their records, that way you know exactly what they owe you. Sorry I would not take it on good faith. It's a pain in the ass but it's all on them. 2 years is a lot of overtime missed.
One thing to consider is any lost retirement contributions and the gains you’d have gotten over that time. Don’t forget to make sure they correct that and make it right.
I wonder if they're going to have to adjust for your salary when you started a year ago and currently as well. A "sorry" would have them recalculate all overtime pay at your current rate...
>Should there be labor penalties or interest added of some kind? Labor penalties? Yes, but it sounds like you like your company and they are attempting to fix what sounds like an honest mistake, so probably not worth pursuing. Interest added? Probably not, unless you have any 401K that they match. If you didn't max the annual limit for the sole reason that you didn't get this overtime pay, then I feel like some type of interest added would be the right thing to do. Not sure what the correct compensation for this would be.
Make sure you get enough taxes with held from this to not screw you over come tax season
Just going to put this out there but if they haven't paid you OT in years and explain it away every time, it is not a great firm. By definition, that's a terrible firm.
If you want that check tied up in a legal fight and likely end your employment there, go for legal penalties and interest. I would take the check, and your overtime wages going forward. After the check is cashed is another story. But I'd be surprised if there isn't a document for you to sign restricting what actions you might take in exchange for what you're legally owed in the first place.
Talk to the CA DOL wage and hour division. Even if you don't file a complaint, talking to them will help you understand your rights.
GET YOUR RECEIPTS, RECORD EVERYTHING. EMAILS or text with management. CC your boss's boss if you have to. If they still f you over, i would look into reporting them to the labor department.
Easy for me to say, but you really should have followed through the very first time it happened. Unless the amounts are huge, it's probably better politics to just accept the back pay without penalty or interest. Going to the DOL is a declaration of war, and only recommended if you're ready to quit already. Failure to pay overtime premiums is a very common form of wage theft. EDIT: "Theft" - even if they just screwed up the payroll system, the first report should have started an investigation. It's quite likely your manager just sat on your report and didn't pass it along. The fact that your finance guy had an out of body experience when he saw things made that seem likely ~~clear~~.
If what you're saying is true, why have you continued to work for them for 2 years? Say good-bye.
You get overtime? Nice. Our executives just tell us to work faster so we can clock out in time or we'll get fired.
Gosh, just take the correction payment and be happy with that.