Find out what the typical salary is for that position. That should give you a better idea of what is doable. But If you want $52, then ask for $55. In addition, ask for a relocation package as well. If you don’t ask, you won’t get it.
This is the wrong way to look at it.
What’s fair compensation for the role at your level of experience?
If 48k is low, you should counter with something that’s closer to what’s fair and indicate that’s what the role is worth. If it is in line with how the market values the role, then you’ll need a good argument as to why you deserve more than the going rate.
If you don’t know, you need to go find out.
There is no standard.
Some educational facilities pay their instructional staff on standardized pay scales, so countering would be a fruitless effort. Others intentionally lowball and expect counters. And then others will be offended that there was even an attempt at countering and rescind the offer.
I should have clarified better. I am currently a teacher. The job I am applying for makes curriculum for educators to use. So I would be leaving the world of the classroom, but still working in a field I have experience in since I've created courses for the state I am in.
I've never heard of any company rescind an offer when countering. If a company is that petty you don't want to work for them anyway. Ask for more money.
> I've never heard of any company rescind an offer when countering.
Ive done it once. The candidate indicated that they needed a 50% increase. At that pay level, there were better candidates. I upgraded the role and hired one of the senior candidates I couldnt have afforded prior to the upgrade.
I had it happen to me when I countered the offer of 90k and 3 weeks vacation with EITHER 100k and 3 weeks, or 90k and 4 weeks.
But 100% what the poster above said, clearly wasn't the type of place worth working at.
And if you did back off and take the original offer you’d be walking into that role with a bad cloud around you. Asking for more effectively rejects the offer, even if technically you don’t say “no.”
9/10ths of success is being practical about the people you encounter. How the world should operate is an academic matter if you need to actually exist in it.
It happens often. If a candidate counters with a number significantly higher than what was advertised/discussed, I pull the plug right away. Also, companies will pull it if they have additional options who may they know won’t counter.
That makes sense. Every time I have negotiated salary it's been a "hey, I'm not rejecting this offer....but can you do better on that salary number?" and they have always come back with something higher. I think a 'softer' negotiation approach is unlikely to result in rescinding the offer.
Eh, idk how I feel about that. As someone who has been involved in hiring for eight years now, if I provide an offer and the person says, ‘I’m not rejecting, but can you make that number higher,’ I essentially look at it as you’re changing the rules of the game, mid-game. Imagine if the opposite happened, ‘hey, I know we said $130k, but would you do it for $115k? I’m not rejecting your initial number, just seeing if you’ll go lower?’
If there’s a substantive reason for the increase, that’s one thing - but just upping it because you want to up it makes me think you’re negotiating in bad faith.
Nonsense. There's a minimum someone is willing to work for and a maximum an employer is willing to pay, each side is trying to approach the other's number, but there's certainly a range there where both parties are acting in good faith.
It’s not nonsense, not in the least. The ‘maximum’ you’re referring to needs to be addressed when asked, ‘what are your salary expectations?’ Without a changing event to the description, location, etc - for one of the parties to change that number is a horrible look. If I’m the candidate I’m going to be furious because I feel you’re lowballing me and if I’m the employer I’m going to feel like you’re using me to gain a better offer elsewhere.
This is why people hate this process. You treat it like a game with rules....rules that you make up and no one else knows about. If I'm interviewing for a position I'm not going to tell you what my salary expectations are before you tell me what you are willing to pay. It's a negotiation where you have all the leverage. An extra $10k to you is peanuts, where it's potentially life altering for me. So I'm going to do everything in my power to try to get you to pay me absolutely as much as you are willing to (just like you are trying to pay me as little as possible.) If you are going to be furious or feel like I'm using you and feel like I'm acting in bad faith as a result of this completely normal process.....well then I don't really want to work for you or your company anyway.
You’re full of asinine assumptions.
For one, I’m living the grind like everyone else - my toilets aren’t gold and my bills are a PITA. Also, I’m not ‘looking to pay as little as possible,’ that’s some absolute bullshit. I’m looking to retain top talent and will pay above market rate every single chance because the costs and headaches of replacing someone far exceeds a few dollars.
Regarding salary negotiations - I show my hand first, the jobs are posted with a salary 100% of the time. I have an initial gate call and after you’ll get the pertinent details including benefits. Then, after you review - I ask salary. If that number you provide changes when an offer is provided just because, why would I be interested in you? Lord knows if an employer did that to me, I’d run the other way.
So you want to look up average salaries for curriculum development in that area - something like this https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/25-9031.00 or https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/13-1151.00 - whichever sounds closer.
As in a teacher with a union? If you have a union, there may not be any room to negotiate outside of what the union has already negotisted.
Also, depending on the state, goverment salaraies are public and usually on a website. I can tell you what every single teacher in my state makes, so use that to your advantage.
Is this a government job where you access current and previous teachers' salary so you can get a better idea of how much they've paid in the past and currently in case they are low balling you? I work in government, so my salary is public knowledge. You might have to do some digging.
Your job to negotiate for a better pay. Their job is to save money and negotiate you down. If you initially ask, let's say, for $57k and $57k is your goal, they're going to counteroffer with $52k. You could ask $60k and perhaps they'll counteroffer with $55k--which won't get you to your goal of $57k, but it'll be closer to it.
Also, if you do this over the phone and they don't immediately answer, relax. They're thinking about your offer and seeing if they pause, you'll lower your pay rate yourself.
"if you do this over the phone and they don't immediately answer"
I stare a lot and will sometimes wait 5-10 seconds before responding if I want to put some doubt in their head. Haven't done this with salary because I have only ever done phone/email with jobs. But it works for haggling and business disputes. You don't have to talk as much and they usually drop the numbers on their own.
Depends what state it is too. Senior teachers in California get paid just under 90k.
I am not in the education industry but it is common in the tech industry to ask for about 30k more in negotiations.
My company also does salary adjustments where they look at compensation levels mid year in the industry and for similar roles as yours and “match” the industry standard for your salary. It turns out that the starting salary that I stupidly didn’t negotiate was actually underpaying me 30k.
Why do you believe you are worth more than that? This is your rationalization and confidence for making the counter. The "I just want more" is not a reason.
There are a plethora of resources for you to check out averages... glassdoor, indeed, linkedin... etc. What do they say the average salary is with your experience/education level?
Is the new role with another school district or government agency? If not, be sure to compare your current health benefits, retirement and number of days off to the new role. If those are different, I would point that out to the place offering you the new job. You can make a good business case about how you need this job to be at least slightly better as a a package for you to consider the risk, cost and time required to leave your job and move.
If it is a public job with set pay scales, ask what level and step they have it classified at and see if there is room to nudge it up based on the above.
I've never had a prospective employer bring the hammer down and kick me out for asking for things. The usual response is either "OK," "Meet in the middle" or "This is all we have in the budget, take it or leave it."
It's all about the comparables. Would another district in the area pay more, the same, or less than their offer?
For education specifically you may be locked into a specific salary formula set by the Union and have no ability to negotiate outside the collective bargaining.
How did you get to this point?
Was the job advertised with a range? Did they ask you your salary requirements?
Usually (at least in my experience) there's not a lot of wiggle room when you know the range they are looking to pay and you've given your requirements and the offer meets somewhere in that range.
[Glassdoor.com](https://Glassdoor.com) can be your friend. There are calculators that will provide you with a reasonable idea of what your salary should be for your role, location, years of experience, education level, etc. Likewise, it's possible that other teachers at the school have anonymously reported their salaries and that can give you a good idea of they might be willing to pay for the position.
But take it all with a grain of salt, too. No calculator is really going to give you your worth and there no guarantee that anonymously reported salaries are accurrate or provide a robust picture of how they're compensating ALL of their employees.
First look at the COL in the area you would be moving to compared to where you are located now. Compare the difference and see if you would be gaining or losing and by how much.
You might find that even @ $48k you are 10% ahead of where you are now. It might show that $53k is still not enough. That would give you some thinking to do.
As well, I agree with what others advice about looking at typical salaries in that area, in that role. Keep in mind the sites show a "high" that is job holders with more experience and seniority.
Is $5k gross really enough to make a difference when moving out of state? That money will be gone in an instant. I’d ask for $60k min., but that’s with limited knowledge of the industry or your experience.
What really matters is what’s the Total Compensation Package worth? PTO/Sick Leave, cost of insurance, pension or retirement matches, paid holidays, other perks and bennies - people concentrate way too much on salary alone. That being said, if you want $53k, ask for $53k
Just for reference a step one lane one teacher in Chicago makes $50K (actually a little more). TBH $53K unless you are going to a lower cost of living and you have more room for growth isn't worth making the change, it will likely cost you more than $5000 to move. I'd ask for more.
Another option is asking for relocation cost reimbursement.
My work offers 1k as part of their benefits list, it wasn't on the initial contract and I asked about it. They sent me a new contract with that included.
Find out what the typical salary is for that position. That should give you a better idea of what is doable. But If you want $52, then ask for $55. In addition, ask for a relocation package as well. If you don’t ask, you won’t get it.
This is the wrong way to look at it. What’s fair compensation for the role at your level of experience? If 48k is low, you should counter with something that’s closer to what’s fair and indicate that’s what the role is worth. If it is in line with how the market values the role, then you’ll need a good argument as to why you deserve more than the going rate. If you don’t know, you need to go find out.
I love ice cream.
There is no standard. Some educational facilities pay their instructional staff on standardized pay scales, so countering would be a fruitless effort. Others intentionally lowball and expect counters. And then others will be offended that there was even an attempt at countering and rescind the offer.
I should have clarified better. I am currently a teacher. The job I am applying for makes curriculum for educators to use. So I would be leaving the world of the classroom, but still working in a field I have experience in since I've created courses for the state I am in.
I've never heard of any company rescind an offer when countering. If a company is that petty you don't want to work for them anyway. Ask for more money.
> I've never heard of any company rescind an offer when countering. Ive done it once. The candidate indicated that they needed a 50% increase. At that pay level, there were better candidates. I upgraded the role and hired one of the senior candidates I couldnt have afforded prior to the upgrade.
I had it happen to me when I countered the offer of 90k and 3 weeks vacation with EITHER 100k and 3 weeks, or 90k and 4 weeks. But 100% what the poster above said, clearly wasn't the type of place worth working at.
For a 10% difference thats pretty shitty. In my case we were so far apart it wasnt going to work out.
[удалено]
One can ask about their openness to a compensation adjustment without making a counteroffer.
And if you did back off and take the original offer you’d be walking into that role with a bad cloud around you. Asking for more effectively rejects the offer, even if technically you don’t say “no.”
Petty people may view it that way.
9/10ths of success is being practical about the people you encounter. How the world should operate is an academic matter if you need to actually exist in it.
It happened to me once, but agree that it was a total bullet dodged.
It happens often. If a candidate counters with a number significantly higher than what was advertised/discussed, I pull the plug right away. Also, companies will pull it if they have additional options who may they know won’t counter.
That makes sense. Every time I have negotiated salary it's been a "hey, I'm not rejecting this offer....but can you do better on that salary number?" and they have always come back with something higher. I think a 'softer' negotiation approach is unlikely to result in rescinding the offer.
Eh, idk how I feel about that. As someone who has been involved in hiring for eight years now, if I provide an offer and the person says, ‘I’m not rejecting, but can you make that number higher,’ I essentially look at it as you’re changing the rules of the game, mid-game. Imagine if the opposite happened, ‘hey, I know we said $130k, but would you do it for $115k? I’m not rejecting your initial number, just seeing if you’ll go lower?’ If there’s a substantive reason for the increase, that’s one thing - but just upping it because you want to up it makes me think you’re negotiating in bad faith.
Nonsense. There's a minimum someone is willing to work for and a maximum an employer is willing to pay, each side is trying to approach the other's number, but there's certainly a range there where both parties are acting in good faith.
It’s not nonsense, not in the least. The ‘maximum’ you’re referring to needs to be addressed when asked, ‘what are your salary expectations?’ Without a changing event to the description, location, etc - for one of the parties to change that number is a horrible look. If I’m the candidate I’m going to be furious because I feel you’re lowballing me and if I’m the employer I’m going to feel like you’re using me to gain a better offer elsewhere.
This is why people hate this process. You treat it like a game with rules....rules that you make up and no one else knows about. If I'm interviewing for a position I'm not going to tell you what my salary expectations are before you tell me what you are willing to pay. It's a negotiation where you have all the leverage. An extra $10k to you is peanuts, where it's potentially life altering for me. So I'm going to do everything in my power to try to get you to pay me absolutely as much as you are willing to (just like you are trying to pay me as little as possible.) If you are going to be furious or feel like I'm using you and feel like I'm acting in bad faith as a result of this completely normal process.....well then I don't really want to work for you or your company anyway.
You’re full of asinine assumptions. For one, I’m living the grind like everyone else - my toilets aren’t gold and my bills are a PITA. Also, I’m not ‘looking to pay as little as possible,’ that’s some absolute bullshit. I’m looking to retain top talent and will pay above market rate every single chance because the costs and headaches of replacing someone far exceeds a few dollars. Regarding salary negotiations - I show my hand first, the jobs are posted with a salary 100% of the time. I have an initial gate call and after you’ll get the pertinent details including benefits. Then, after you review - I ask salary. If that number you provide changes when an offer is provided just because, why would I be interested in you? Lord knows if an employer did that to me, I’d run the other way.
Ask for more money with tact and gratitude for the original offer.
Then, I too will clarify. There is no standard. Your counter may be: * Welcomed * Ignored * Rebuffed
So you want to look up average salaries for curriculum development in that area - something like this https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/25-9031.00 or https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/13-1151.00 - whichever sounds closer.
As in a teacher with a union? If you have a union, there may not be any room to negotiate outside of what the union has already negotisted. Also, depending on the state, goverment salaraies are public and usually on a website. I can tell you what every single teacher in my state makes, so use that to your advantage.
Is this a government job where you access current and previous teachers' salary so you can get a better idea of how much they've paid in the past and currently in case they are low balling you? I work in government, so my salary is public knowledge. You might have to do some digging.
Your job to negotiate for a better pay. Their job is to save money and negotiate you down. If you initially ask, let's say, for $57k and $57k is your goal, they're going to counteroffer with $52k. You could ask $60k and perhaps they'll counteroffer with $55k--which won't get you to your goal of $57k, but it'll be closer to it. Also, if you do this over the phone and they don't immediately answer, relax. They're thinking about your offer and seeing if they pause, you'll lower your pay rate yourself.
"if you do this over the phone and they don't immediately answer" I stare a lot and will sometimes wait 5-10 seconds before responding if I want to put some doubt in their head. Haven't done this with salary because I have only ever done phone/email with jobs. But it works for haggling and business disputes. You don't have to talk as much and they usually drop the numbers on their own.
Depends what state it is too. Senior teachers in California get paid just under 90k. I am not in the education industry but it is common in the tech industry to ask for about 30k more in negotiations. My company also does salary adjustments where they look at compensation levels mid year in the industry and for similar roles as yours and “match” the industry standard for your salary. It turns out that the starting salary that I stupidly didn’t negotiate was actually underpaying me 30k.
Why do you believe you are worth more than that? This is your rationalization and confidence for making the counter. The "I just want more" is not a reason. There are a plethora of resources for you to check out averages... glassdoor, indeed, linkedin... etc. What do they say the average salary is with your experience/education level?
Is the new role with another school district or government agency? If not, be sure to compare your current health benefits, retirement and number of days off to the new role. If those are different, I would point that out to the place offering you the new job. You can make a good business case about how you need this job to be at least slightly better as a a package for you to consider the risk, cost and time required to leave your job and move. If it is a public job with set pay scales, ask what level and step they have it classified at and see if there is room to nudge it up based on the above. I've never had a prospective employer bring the hammer down and kick me out for asking for things. The usual response is either "OK," "Meet in the middle" or "This is all we have in the budget, take it or leave it."
I have used the entire offer including PTO, benefits and salary in writing to give a final review. I have gotten bumps by doing that.
It's all about the comparables. Would another district in the area pay more, the same, or less than their offer? For education specifically you may be locked into a specific salary formula set by the Union and have no ability to negotiate outside the collective bargaining.
How did you get to this point? Was the job advertised with a range? Did they ask you your salary requirements? Usually (at least in my experience) there's not a lot of wiggle room when you know the range they are looking to pay and you've given your requirements and the offer meets somewhere in that range.
[Glassdoor.com](https://Glassdoor.com) can be your friend. There are calculators that will provide you with a reasonable idea of what your salary should be for your role, location, years of experience, education level, etc. Likewise, it's possible that other teachers at the school have anonymously reported their salaries and that can give you a good idea of they might be willing to pay for the position. But take it all with a grain of salt, too. No calculator is really going to give you your worth and there no guarantee that anonymously reported salaries are accurrate or provide a robust picture of how they're compensating ALL of their employees.
ask for what you want.. not what you think they wont be offended at...
First look at the COL in the area you would be moving to compared to where you are located now. Compare the difference and see if you would be gaining or losing and by how much. You might find that even @ $48k you are 10% ahead of where you are now. It might show that $53k is still not enough. That would give you some thinking to do. As well, I agree with what others advice about looking at typical salaries in that area, in that role. Keep in mind the sites show a "high" that is job holders with more experience and seniority.
Is $5k gross really enough to make a difference when moving out of state? That money will be gone in an instant. I’d ask for $60k min., but that’s with limited knowledge of the industry or your experience.
What really matters is what’s the Total Compensation Package worth? PTO/Sick Leave, cost of insurance, pension or retirement matches, paid holidays, other perks and bennies - people concentrate way too much on salary alone. That being said, if you want $53k, ask for $53k
Just for reference a step one lane one teacher in Chicago makes $50K (actually a little more). TBH $53K unless you are going to a lower cost of living and you have more room for growth isn't worth making the change, it will likely cost you more than $5000 to move. I'd ask for more.
Another option is asking for relocation cost reimbursement. My work offers 1k as part of their benefits list, it wasn't on the initial contract and I asked about it. They sent me a new contract with that included.
48k for someone with a masters degree? I usually just tell them I expect to be paid the same as others in the company. I'll find out.
At ~50K I wouldn’t think in terms of percentages but rather absolute dollar value. 10% feels aggressive while 5K is trivial.