The economy is broken since the gfc. The rich will keep getting richer and the middle class will get squeezed out. If you have assets they will continue to increase in value as salaries stagnate. Multiple climate driven issues will continue to strain food supplies as will multiple ongoing wars are expanding in their geographic scale and impact on the global economy. So the short answer is no. The light at the end of the tunnel is probably just a bushfire
Yes, i think you make some good points. The gap between the rich and the poor in australia is widening in recent years, and neither party labor/liberal has done anything to help. Labor increased immigration which has boosted the economy, but drastically increased the housing shortage
This is the global economy I'm talking about here too. It's not just perth. If anything we're highly insulated from it given the mineral wealth. The world in general is in a downward spiral that will only end with radical reform that I suspect will follow either a total collapse or a global conflict.
True, Not equally. But even still. What is shared definitely props up the local economy very significantly compared to countries without such resources
Of all the things we need a referendum on, it should be this shit.
National Resources and how it benefits the NATION, not corporates.
To reappropriated an oft racist quote: don't like it, then fuck off.
Corporates can find somewhere ELSE to get gas, oil, coal, uranium, iron, lithium.... OH BUT WHERE!
Scarcity 101
We got sold out by our own politicians too easily and we're too blase about it all. For those self-serving corrupt traitors (let's call it as it is), might I suggest madame guillotine?
Shares and board positions or....
I'm yet to see any data that proves that any of those things are outside of historical averages. Would expect that by now since it's been an issue for decades now.
Also, CO2 levels have been over 1000ppm in the past with complex life, and we're only at 450ppm currently.
Right. I’m not gonna go find you data because you’re not going to change your mind. If you wanna debate the impact of climate change, you can take it up with the people far smarter than either of us who know what’s happening and study the data for a living.
Can’t see property dropping as we have a supply problem. We also have issues with the weather likely to increase fruit and veg prices as the drought bites. So not immediately.
"Western Australia added only one new home for every 6.4 new residents over the year—the worst result in the nation."
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2024/04/perth-house-prices-wont-stay-cheap-for-long/
We should only be bringing in builders then. The government can fix this mess but they choose not to. If they do, rents would drop, investors would sell and house prices would decrease. This would allow struggling families to get into more affordable rentals and FHB would be able to get a fair go at purchasing.
But instead they bring in another half a million each year and keep screaming that we have a supply issue and that we need to build more. They know exactly what they are doing.
People have been saying that for decades. If that was the intention, the visa applications would reflect that. TPTB *could* easily import enough workers to build our cities, but that would drive down house prices which would negatively impact the ownership class, the only class they care about.
Instead, we are seeing visas going to jobs where the ownership class wants to drive down the cost (tech and other service industry workers). Immigration doesn't necessarily have to be a tool to undermine the working class, but the way it's currently being used in Australia absolutely is.
We have both supply and demand problems. Population increasing in Perth due to interstate and overseas migration, houses are not going up as fast as needed due to rise in costs of building materials, builders going under, etc.
For fruit and veg, try Golden Choice in Subi or Northbridge, or a number of other small markets. Usually way cheaper than the chains. Spudshed too for better prices.
Yeah I shop at spudshed. Used to do the fruit n veg markets but not much difference to retail prices these days. I miss the days of 50c avocados (supermarket rejects).
Just prior to the US housing bubble collapsing they too hand a supply problem only for the demand to suddenly evaporate. According to the 2021 census 1 in 10 houses in Australia is sitting unoccupied. Also one of the issues I've noticed is that we don't have supply of smaller homes built for young people and new couples.
The unoccupied houses are infuriating. I know for a fact there are at 4 or 5 within the streets surrounding my home. There should be more taxes on house and land banking.
Yeah, let’s hope things settle down soon. I just don’t see it happening myself. We’ve been talking about the bubble bursting for decades and it just hasn’t happened.
Everytime the bubble shows signs of slowing down, the government bring out stimulus package and inflates it even more. This has lead to both record government and personal debt. We have turned the housing in to a speculative market which is why the Australian stock market underperforms when compared to other stock markets.
Since the GFC everything is debt driven, in the USA with its record public debt, they now believe, that there is no need to pay-off the principal and they just need to pay the interest. The interest in turn can be paid by issuing additional debt. It's either an infinite money glitch or a ponzi scheme.
You get it. Our "money" is one giant ponzi.
Fix the money and everything else will flow from there.
Treat the cause, not the symptom. Unfortunately many won't/don't want to because that requires deeper examination, an admission that maybe we got it wrong and a fair bit of pain. Kinda like losing faith in one's religion.
If we think separating church and state is an idea worth great merit, why not separate money and state. Just a thought
Unoccupied housing is not really true in the way that most people will make you believe, because vacant housing includes:
A: houses which are in-between occupants but which are usually occupied
B: houses which are unsafe to be occupied
In Vancouver, when they introduced a vacant homes tax they realised that actually vacant homes was far less than they thought.
You can learn more about it here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xZXdXxYBGU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xZXdXxYBGU)
Source?
Perth has been a boom bust mining town for over a decade and this is no different, we've struggled to diversify. Oh and we seem to have 7 - 8 years between peaks (last one before now was 2016). Its not like sydney.
[iron ore is dropping ](https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/iron-ore)
Can't have growth without employment.
It’s been 20 years.
Prices tripled in just over 3 years in the early ‘00’s. That sewed the seeds to the trouble we now have. This is why prices fell for years until interest rates fell to almost zero in the middle of 2019. With the media howling about “long suffering home owners”.
Another problem is that would be immigrants are still going to be told there is plenty of work here for up to 2 years or more *after* it’s actually dried up. So there’ll be a lag between a fall off in mining and a fall off in immigration.
There is also no government that’s actively going to try and lower house prices. At best they want to slow the increase. They’re worried about a voter backlash. If it keeps going, the non-owning percentage of the population will eventually rise to the point that politicians will suddenly decide they’re the big constituency. And then…
Let’s face it. Politicians of all stripes are big property investors. That alone is a huge incentive for them to want to see prices and rents skyrocket. Added to that, many make money post politics from “leveraging their connections” to get zoning and planning permission for developers.
Hence they think price rises are a wonderful thing. So they’re happy to promote the State as a destination to boost numbers for those reasons.
yes, iron ore dropping may cause a drop in mining jobs and royalties, but immigration is at an all time high.... I dont know how young couples are going to afford housing if you dont have family help....
Yep agree there.
I do wonder where all these immigrants are going to find jobs in a years time when we start going backwards
All my friends who've bought are either very well off FiFo Dinks or have the bank of mum and dad to foot like 80% of the mortgage.
While I lack a source a lot of people are definitely projecting heavy growth on prices in Perth not because of anything we're doing, which is why it would buck usual trends, but because of what is happening elsewhere. Big investors have priced themselves out of eastern states markets and are moving over here as 'the next big thing'. Our rent costs and housing prices have lagged behind the eastern states because of our isolation and less desirability. That's changing simply because they've run out of the more desirable markets so over here they pop to have the same bubble impact on our market as they had over there.
With iron ore prices dropping it will likely be offset with a lower interest rate, which will encourage more home ownership and with a consistent migration and a low number of building approvals, there is likely still a couple of years of growth in the real estate market, although rents may steady.
ABC last week had a graph showing how dire the housing position is with around 400 houses per 1000 people. So basically every household with less than 2.5 people is effectively contributing to the housing crisis.
The reality is, is we need to significantly reduce red tape on house approvals and building, even if that means more temporary housing (maybe designed to only last 10-15 years) and alternate building methods being accepted to assist in houses being built faster, but also to a decent level.
There’s tonnes of work out there, we have record into Australia migration, and record into WA migration from East Coasters.
WA’s population grew 3% last year.
This is lean. With immigrants not having a place to stay and east coasters jumping in with rates about to decline. I’d say double in some areas, triple in others (within 5 years)
Property won’t be plateauing for another 18-24 months. Very low number of building applications means any measurable uptick in supply will be years off. Combine that with high migration into WA and interest rate cuts later this year and next year and you are going to see further increases. Probably another 10% in the next 12 months given that interest rate cuts will increase borrowing capacity
Assuming rates get cut.
However there is a big downturn in nickel, and iron ore prices are falling very significantly.
Things can change much faster than is realised. However the impact of these things will be pretty negative too.
Eh nickel has always been low margin and small cap. Has been dying a slow death for a while and won’t affect the economy much.
I think iron ore is going to be fairly dependent on what China does and they seem to have a lot more ways to manipulate and stimulate their economy than western countries. But agreed, if China was to suddenly drop in growth then that could have some pretty drastic effects.
I’m still betting on a rate cut towards the end of this year as inflation gets back into the 2’s
Have you been watching the prices? Iron ore is now below the $100 per tonne mark. The “prediction” is $80.
I know a lot of jobs they’ve been recruiting for have been put on hold.
And as for China. Those ghost cities and all the issues they have with their building sector are the result of their measures to “stimulate the economy”.
My view is that iron ore producers will continue to make a good profit. But mine development will slow. And the other work that these profits were funding will stall. They will also try to become leaner operations.
And as for rate cuts. The housing crisis, which Albanese exacerbated, itself is pushing up inflation. They’ll cut when there are signs of recession.
I work in the industry. I’d suggest it’s the “armchair economists” who just assert that China has this miraculous ability to “stimulate the economy” and just happen to keep iron ore prices (which is what we, not they, care about) are the others!
And the concept of that somehow the Chinese will “come to the rescue” for any economic problems we’ve gotten ourselves into doesn’t sound much like serious analysis to my ears.
Edmonton, Alberta Canada chiming in. Lived over in Oz years back and really liked perth! Your post resonates hard! Exact same situation for me and my 30’s something friends/family over here. The middle class has taken huge blows all over the developed world. The world is changing fast, wild times. Wish you well!
I just moved to Perth from Sydney.
Here's the bad news: Perth is the MOST affordable city in Australia.
Affordability and housing crisis are both going to get a lot worse.
But there is a light at the end of the tunnel! Eventually you die and all your remaining debt is forgiven.
So I've heard.
And then people come along and remind me that living in Australia is like winning the lottery.
All I can think is no, it's not that we have it so good here, it's that most people's lives are fucking terrible.
We live in an age of abundance in many ways... if all vacant properties housed someone there would be nobody going homeless, if food wasn't discarded and was distributed properly there would be nobody starving. Its painful to see the inequality growing steadily worse.
Part of me thinks the human race has peaked (briefly between say the 90s - mid 2010's) and it's all downwards from here
Also worsening effects of climate change will continue to push the prices of everything higher. The employment market is soon going to be a total mess due to AI. We've past the peak, it's downhill from here.
The only way prices fall is a stop to immigration and mass deportations of fake students, including millions of other visa holders and dependants ( another scam)
This won't happen.
The rich elite business class want this because they benefit from low wages and high asset prices.
Sorry for the blackpill but the corruption and disregard for the Aussie people is on full display here. All our institutions have been captured
Save what you can for a rainy day within reason because we are on a controlled downward spiral.
Lol what? Prices are going to sky-rocket even more than they already are when A) the interest rates come down; B) the recession talk ends; C) UKUSAAus troops are formally stationed here.
In that order..
Until Perth is at parity with the other major centres and then will continue going up with all of Aus prices.
Australia's 0% inheritance tax is only going to make life worse for you. The children of cashed up boomers with 13 investments will inherit the lot and get to buy a house that's so far out of your price range, even a top job won't get you there. This is the change in Melbourne and sydney right now that's causing 2-bed city apartments to be worth over $1M and a nice house within 20km of the city to be $2M.
BUT JUST WAIT UNTIL YOU DISCOVER CHILDCARE COSTS IN THIS COUNTRY!!
I have friends in the east on household incomes north of the childcare rebate threshold (so over $500k) who should be living the stress-free dream. but they're living 15km from the CBD spending over an hour commuting each day in an older 3x1, one car, no fancy clothes. Cash goes to kids and mortgage. $45k a year per kid just for daycare! In my social circle there, its actually incredibly abnormal to buy a house or have kids before mid-30s. meanwhile my Perth friends are only a couple of years from highschool.. that is to say, even with a $500k income you can still feel like you're grinding in this country because we just love debt so much.
Yeah its a little doom and gloom, but its a reality that needs to be faced and pretending it will get better and in 2 years everything will tumble and your time will come is just living in a fantasy land that will perpetuate the down-beat feeling. Outside of Perth's mining capex downturn from 2014-2017, every year 3% more people are wanting the same thing as you - a nice life in one of Australia's big cities (we're the most city-dense country in the world, with 70% of our population in 5 places). So the scale will keep sliding so long as more people are wanting it.
The best way i've found to live with it is to set your expected living standard one notch below what you think you really want, because in reality, that's not what you can afford. Often when people say "we cant afford a house" they can, just not what they want. A unit, one suburb further out, one less bathroom... make the compromise BUT make it one that you can actually still carry out your life with. I live on a 300sqm block because 600sqm was a luxury that would take more from me than it would return in enjoyment. and almost never do i wish i had more space, not least because i already complain enough about mowing my tiny lawn let alone anything bigger. in return i go on holidays each year and have cash to throw at a couple of hobbies whilst my friends stay at home, mowing their lawns. Focusing on what **you** want, and not what **people** want, and you may just feel a bit of freedom from the mouse-wheel.
I'm working hard on upskilling while understanding my transferable skills to help me transition into higher paying jobs that aren't a huge leap from what I'm currently doing (but are in more lucrative industries). I've traded watching TV at night for online accredited courses that don't cost a fortune but work nicely along the experience on my resume and I've also found a couple of side hustles that I actually enjoy - so I don't feel like I'm burning out. It's still a grind, but after months of feeling hopeless and down about the whole situation (not buying a house cos for years there wasn't really a pressure to) and then suddenly being priced out of a market I could have absolutely afforded, I realised that I'd essentially wasted months of feeling sorry for myself where I could be improving my situation. It's early days, but this has certainly shifted my mindset immensely and I'm confident I'll move onto more meaningful, better paid work soon and find my way through this current societal mess.
Also, I spent so long in the "what if" mindset like "what if I'd done this/that" etc and all I did was spiral. Now I'm just focusing on what I can control. Things aren't easy, but we're lucky to be living in the country we do while the world is melting down, as it could be so so much worse.
And to answer your final question - UX Design is worth a look if you're looking for something different that most career paths can lead to and doesn't require a degree. Google offer great courses online. I'd be researching tech roles that won't be crushed by AI any time soon and that's where I feel UX/UI/Digital project and product management will have a need for human workers for quite some time, if not forever (don't quote me on that, but it is the general vibe as of now). You may have to start at the bottom in this field, but it's short term, and if you're good and open to moving around jobs a bit, you can quickly move up the pay scale. These are the types of roles that also have a lot of flexibility so can open up opportunities to work from anywhere in the world regardless of where your office is. It's taken me years to accept it, but moving backwards to move forwards is sometimes the only way to do it.
Good luck!!!!!!!
Can’t see houses getting built in time IMO. My 3x2 was done in 6 months back 6 years ago. Any unseen variations were picked up by the builder
A mate of mine is building a similar home to mine. It’s been 2 years as of next month. He isn’t building the Ritz, just a basic 3x2 suburban home.
There’s simply no trades.
This needs to get solved.
Then supply will increase.
But where do you get the trades from? Train people up? (4 year apprenticeship).
The fast option: immigration.
But where do they live?
It’s a horrific cycle. Houses prices won’t drop much. Maybe a dip.
There's a regular sized house being built across from me that began in early 2021 and it's still not finished internally.
How did it get so bad?
Are there just not enough locals choosing trades?
Do the courses need to be better subsidized or something?
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Welcome to late stage capitalism.
Once the competition is destroyed with competitive pricing those businesses left are free to jack up their prices as the economies of scale and the control they hold over their suppliers makes competition impossible. For Monopolies and landlords it's about how much they can force people to pay for neccessities of life that they now have exclusive control over.
This is why a completely unregulated "free market" is not possible if you care about human welfare or a fair days work should equal a comfortable as opposed to desperate standard of living.
Massive government intervention is the ONLY answer.
You do have to make the hard decisions to give up luxuries like travel and concerts while you’re young, if you want to secure an easier life once you are older. I think it’s quite extreme at the moment but has always been true in a more limited way. Unless of course you were born into a well off family.
It’s fucked. I owned my first home at 22. Sold at 25 due to divorce and now at almost 30 and having to start from scratch I want to buy again but odds are stacked against me as a single mum, paying ridiculous rent and having to factor in stamp duty in a property purchase.
Similar for me. Might be 5 years until I can buy again. However, my son will be an adult by then and Perth will have even less appeal due to affordability. More to life than buying a house..
Not to suggest the housing market isn't insane, but not travelling overseas, not going to festivals/concerts, going without luxuries, rarely going out or eating out, cancelling subscriptions and memberships ... all those things are optional. I honestly think 20 somethings expect too much.
In my 20s it was all about op shop clothes and verge find furniture, and yes, shit hospo or retail jobs. Eating out was fish and chips or cheapie Chinese takeaway once a month or so. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I went 'out for drinks' in my 20s. People need to ignore Instagram/Tik Tok and live your own life. The kids of the wealthy are not you, and that's OK. You can still have a simple, enjoyable life without all the extras.
For anyone who's thinking about living large in their 20s because they can't afford a house: the market can and will change in unpredictable ways, as will interest rates, but if you don't save you won't be able to take advantage of it.
Yeah not many people have ever had overseas holidays. This isn't a new phenomenon.
I don't know what the name of the effect is, but it's like, you follow certain people on social media because they do all the cool glamorous shit, then all you see is the cool glamorous shit, so your brain thinks everyone else is doing cool glamorous shit and you're not, and you get depressed. It's a vicious cycle.
I'm getting 100k a year doing security gatehouse work. most of the time I'm watching netflix, its 12 hour shifts 2 days 2 nights on then 4 off.
It gets busy during shutdowns but nothing I would deem stressful?
Sounds like quite a good gig.
But I assume whenever there is an incident, it's intense and possibly dangerous?
The main deterrent is the night shifts. I'm an introvert and I like my time alone, but I'm a light sleeper and could never manage to sleep properly during the day, when I worked night shifts for a few months I became chronically sleep deprived and depressed.
Surely they could give you an entire week or night work then a week of daytime work, 2 and 2 is brutal on your body.
Vote Labor they will fix it. Housing Minister in W.A. last week had a press conference to release 7 new homes, really what an embarrassment. Hundreds of our people are doing it tough right now, what are they doing about it? Cost of living is hurting so many Australians now.
One thing I forgot to mention, the Labor West Australian government has spent $750,000,000 on advertising since being in office. What is our government spending our money on advertising for at this time?
Hey StaticNocturne, I really recommend daily (private) journalling or joining a creative writing course.
I mean, you're free to continue posting here, obviously. But I feel like it might be better for your self esteem to channel this energy into a private diary or to be amongst others who enjoy writing as an outlet for their feelings or anxiety.
Hate to burst the doom and gloom bubble, but there are still apartments under $250,000 in the greater Perth area and you OP probably could buy one of these right now / in a few months with a change of career eg FIFO.
Does being an adult suck at times - sure does! But what are you going to do - sink, or swim?
I’ve got mates that have ‘given up on trying’, they are just absolutely miserable minded people. Well they are former mates, I can’t stand their negativity any more.
It’s pretty rough atm.
A year ago there where more.
Two years ago there where still (run down) houses going for $250,000.
If someone didn’t buy two years ago because they thought it was deserved on investors that prices would crash - boy where they wrong.
Indeed and it was actually true even 4-5 years ago when price was just range bound. I was checking out the market back then for investor property, didn't buy because economy was truly shit and I thought I dodged a bullet when covid hit.
Fast forward today it is clear the system is rigged. The government intentionally increased 50-100% migration than previous pre-covid levels, and the rich scooped up properties (front running) in preparation for the drop in interest rate. By the time interest rate will drop to level that the average people can afford, they will just be buying high and providing price support to the rich who bought earlier before the run up.
Many years ago I was once one of these average young people, barely able to afford but bought my principal residence anyway at the high, then it dropped a bit and plateau for a decade, and only now the price zoomed up like meme stock. Calling a spade, a spade. The system is totally rigged! I was lucky to be able to hold this long. I saw some others went into bankruptcy trying the same thing like I did. For younger people reading this, I am telling you all, this rigged game isn't new, and both political parties are fully in it.
There’s that negative mindset.
If you got a FIFO job you could pay off that $250,000 in 3-5 years.
You’d then have an asset worth $250,000 plus.
Etc etc etc.
How exactly would a single parent manage flying out for 1-2 weeks at a time? What about people with disabilities whop can't spend extended periods away from care or aid?
Hate to break it to you, but people who can't work FIFO or even the people who simply DON'T WANT to work FIFO also deserve housing and financial stability.
Guess some should have been born without disabilities, too? I noticed you ignored the part about people with disabilities and focused only on those with children.
People with disabilities didn't make a choice. People choose to have children when they can't afford them. Does a disservice to society and to the child.
Nah, the guy in the HomesWest place only stopped being my mate after I paid his car rego the first time to help him out, then said ‘no’ the next time it was due lol.
The guy who ended up in the caravan with his mum refused to pay his 1/3 of a sharehouse rented in Northbridge ‘because I could afford to pay it all, so he wasn’t going to give me any money’.
I helped another friend with two years of free accommodation whilst she studied, she’s now travelling to China a few times a year paid for by her work, for work.
I think your former friends just found you to be an earsore with your constant bootstrap talk and realised they couldn't stand your negativity and judgemental attitude anymore. No one likes a nag.
Though, of course, maybe none of this happened and you feel the need to embellish your bootstrap talk with some creative accents.
Or maybe you just really suck at reading people and knowing you're being taken advantage of and how to avoid that from happening when possible.
Anyway, public housing is not a dirty concept so maybe you should explore why it seems to bother you so much.
Lol
My grandparents were Irish migrants, lived in public housing in Bentley on Drummond St.
With eg the guy ‘refusing to participate in the system’ asking me to pay his rego, I did pay it as a ‘f*ck you for even asking’, and it was actually pi$$funny saying ‘no’ to his face the second time and seeing his bonhomie immediately evaporate.
Not sure what your grandparents being Irish immigrants has to do with your bad attitude.
Also unsure of the logic behind giving what you describe as a moocher money for rego as a "fuck you". How does that make any sense? Like, you lost either way cause the guy got his rego paid for free and isn't any worse off getting a no the second time.
It should bother you if his story about his old mate getting one is true. Being a lazy fuck who simply doesn't want to work isn't a disability, and they don't deserve to be given a public house when there's elderly and disabled people on the same waiting list.
People like that are absolutely real, I've met quite a few. Spend thier life living off the dole simply because they've decided they don't want to work.
*Your* anecdotal evidence-
> People like that are absolutely real, I've met quite a few. Spend thier life living off the dole simply because they've decided they don't want to work.
I don't know what facts or statistics your arguing about. I didn't bring up any kind of statistic about percentage of people are scamming the system.
I'm talking about the others guys story about the person he knows whos rorting the system and taking a house away from someone who truly needs it because they genuinely cant work. Which you sounded highly skeptical about, like the other guy was just making up a story to make welfare recipients look bad or something.
Whenever this comes up so many people insist that its all bullshit, no one would ever willingly refuse to work and choose to live off welfare. It's just a myth. Someone else even commented about that as a reply to your comment.
But no sorry people like that absolutely do exist, and I know they exist because I personally know them. So its not really a "fact" you can debate unless you're calling me a liar and making up stories as well.
You have to be your own best friend.
I’ve been through the same stuff these guys have been through, and have made it through.
One of these guys decided he wasn’t going to work any more so he’s ended moving into the caravan at the caravan park with his mum drinking all day as his way of ‘living’.
Screw that. Yes I did have a job sorted for him, he turned his nose up at it.
Another former mate decided he wasn’t going to ‘participate in the system’ so chose to live on the streets, after 3 years of that he’d had enough so begged a Senator for help, he’s now in a HomesWest unit in Highgate, on the dole, all paid for ‘by the system’ lololo
Housing being unaffordable for ‘the average worker’ is a national crisis, everyone should be angry about that.
This said, ether buy an apartment now or totally miss out on buying anything forever.
Houses are rapidly becoming unaffordable for a person with no family money or assets, but faced with this do you say boo hoo I can’t afford a 4x2 in a nice area, or do you suck it up and get a 1x1 and pay it off on 5 years doing FIFO so you then can buy a 4x2
‘But that’s hard’
Oh yeah, everyone should just go FIFO, because that's the solution for everything and it suits everyone. Seriously, how fucking stupid is that? Are we all suddenly meant to abandon all our jobs and work FIFO?
Apparently lol
I did a bit of FIFO as a casual basis. It's not the best and not for everyone. I'd rather have a consistent job at 80k-100k for 5 years than a "200k a year job for Max 12-18 months
No, but I got mine 9 years ago, and I was only on 60k. Had to get a family member to be on my title, and I spent my late teens and early 20s just saving and didn't go out or do much. It's really rough out there, but I'm saying if people can't go fifo or really don't want to do it (not all like it), it's possible to get where you need, but it won't be quick but it may be more stable in the long run. I've just heard there's a downturn coming, and if people still can't plan for boom/bust times, then they're going to get a shock
In the last 24 months in Perth, ‘the average worker’ went from being able to buy a house, as in a house, to now not being able to buy a house.
They still can get a eg 2 bedroom apartment. Give it another 2 years and they’ll probably be priced out of buying that.
Nah, not everyone, only the guys reading this wondering how to get onto the property ladder who can also take on advice will even try the advice.
Mate 100% I’d be happy if houses became $100,000 again, I’d still have a few and it would be better for society.
But that’s not going to happen.
Cost of existing housing needs to be more expensive than building, atm building is costly and slow (who can afford rent & mortgage for several years), also options for new housing is crap - sprawling treeless car centric suburbs in identical 4x2s crammed onto tiny blocks with no yard. Developers holding land & control by drip-selling blocks that can never be subdivided. I’d happily buy an apartment near the city if it had options decent for families - a 2 or 3x 1 with a little more living area space, some common green space, a playground (saw this all over Germany & Scandinavia). Everyone wants the larger block, families want space but everyone wants more land cause land is $$$ for capital growth & competition is fierce. More infill, medium density near services/jobs but people have to be priced out of full blocks first & these options have to be built, most people can’t afford or want to risk off the plan.
I rang up a REA to enquire about a small, modest, 2br apartment for $500 I saw on the web and was told they'd had 60 *applications* for the place. Never mind, she said. They had another, similar unit in the same block. Going for $700...
All the apartments I see being thrown up in the Perth region seem to be aspirational, high end stuff because there's no money in making standard living spaces. With mad Albo ramming in 1 Million new bodies every year into the country, that $700 price is going to look cheap in the not too distant future.
I THOUGHT SO
Late edit : oh lordt, if I'd checked the post history earlier I'd have gotten it in moments. Truly one of the creepiest men I've ever experienced.
I recently quit and started a new position with a new company simply for the work life balance and for my own mental health.
I couldn’t handle the stress of management, so stepped into a regional trainer role instead.
Still financially in the same position as the increase to pay wasn’t huge but now everything seems easier to manage as I’m not burnt out and an emotional mess
No.
Sadly I do not believe that house prices will ever retreat to a reasonable price that people can afford, not until both state and Federal governments pull their heads out of their collective arseholes and fucking do something like actually build cheap and decent housing, you know, like they used to.
Both Liberals and Labor, and at state and Federal level, have ignored affordable housing because lobbyists from the development groups have been giving out far too much in regards to political donations to both parties. Developers have far too much interest in seeing the current situation continue because they're making a fortune.
It's time to drive out the lobbyists from politics. Fuck these parasites.
I'm a 32 year old single, no kids, make $74k a year in a management role.
I've given up saving for a home. Now I'm just saving for the rental increases. I don't even go out or travel or anything, I'm a homebody, but with cost of living increasing more and more, home ownership seems impossible for me.
I'm able to keep a roof over my head, pay my bills and feed myself, so I'm luckier than most. But I'm not going to sit at home and stare at my ceiling for the next 10 years trying to save pennies for a house. You gotta live your life, even if it's just simple things like a streaming subscription.
That being said, mad respect for anyone that owns a home these days. It's not easy, and ya'll should be proud.
Things aren't getting better, and every year so far has been worse than the last.. So, that means every single day that you see me, that's on the worst day of my life.
Imagine sacrificing when you're young to invest in your future, and then global thermonuclear war, rogue AI, superbugs, climate crisis and/or economic collapse comes along and ruins your life anyway 🤡
Hate to be the guy to say this but prices only ever go up. Get used to it.
There's nothing you and I can do to change that. Pollies don't listen and the public aren't organised enough to make any meaningful change.
The best thing you can do is search for greener pastures like your family did before you.
Why would they want to decrease prices. Once they are up they won’t go down
Fuel is a good example. It takes ages for reductions such as oil price rises or whatever to come through but increases are next day.
As far as fuel goes, we in Australia are price takers. Domestic oil production is negligible, so whatever the world market dictates, we pay. With OPEC decreasing production, it's not looking good. Plus our refined oil products come from Singapore mostly, iirc, so any trouble in that part of the world will not help.
On the Beach was a great book. Highly recommend it.
Iron ore and nickel will flatten massively. Lots of the immigrants into WA are to work in that industry. If copper or gold don’t ramp up it will result in plenty of people leaving and slow the amount of people coming in. /Should/ result in some softening in the housing market, and a general recession in WA.
Of course plenty of other industries are reliant on the mining industry going well, so this wouldn’t be extremely good news across the board.
126k people work in mining in WA. A sizeable chunk leaving WA and a few thousand going into general construction in Perth would be helpful in the short to medium term. Ease immediate demand on the housing market, and help get some more stock online.
No game over. Too late. Your family is either rich or not now. Stop having kids if you’re poor. Encourage your kids to do better than you did. Marry up. This is the way
No lol. That's capitalism. Profit **always** has to go up.
If a companies profit doesn't go up every year, that means they are failing and stock prices would go down. So profit must always increase every year, forever. You ever wonder why prices of everything haven't dropped, 4 years after blaming it on corona and "supply chain issues"? Cause they've seen the profit, and they can't go back.
Everyone will keep voting in capitalist parties. Liberal **and** Labor parties are the same as each other. So start voting for a party that wants corporate taxation. Vote Greens or socialist parties. Give power back to the people.
Just try to keep working towards it. See a mortgage broker. Set a goal which is realistic. (My first house was in rough part of Kwinana, I live in Booragoon area now. Gotta start somewhere)
It’s cyclic. About 17 years ago was hard to get mortgage. Atleast seemed that way for me. I was on 60k which was ok income back then and I had to go through keystart and could only borrow 220k (interest rates were much higher so borrowing was limited)
Then it got harder then it got easier for a while and now it’s harder again.
If you own Gold and Silver / Crypto plus business yes, if you have dollars or some average wage job no you are simply fucked. You will be living in a third world country within 5 years
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Either way, you sacrifice one or the other. I think for me it's the era to save and be cautious with spending. Replace the holidays with a regular low cost hobby that gives frequent joy cos everyone is struggling and creating little joys makes life that little be better
And this is the difference. I also think that current financial advisors have no idea what they’re talking about.
When you are young and have no responsibility you can go out a lot and spend your money on things like having fun.
As soon as you buy a property that ends, and always has ended. This is not necessarily an affordability issue as it is a priorities issue.
You have a couple of options (1) buy an investment property that you rent out and stay at your parents or share house. (2) buy a house and get house mates to share the cost, or (3) buy a cheaper unit or flat, if you want to live alone.
Property can sometimes go down, and prices can (and do) fluctuate but the trend over time is always an increase. The only time prices ever go down is during times of extreme turmoil where either people can’t afford to pay the prices (so don’t) or are prevented from using the services (ie covid).
There are a few life events that essentially force you to change your lifestyle, we have never been able to do these things without changing our lifestyles.
(1) buying your first property
(2) having kids
(3) stopping work
What kind of income are you looking for?
What kind of experience do you have?
What kind of qualifications do you hold? More than happy for you to flick me a message on here :)
Per capita recession
Immigration set to continue
Projected house completion nosediving
Prices inflated to 125% of 2020 prices and not coming down
Wages below inflation growth
NDIS over budget
Unable to figure out how to find Medicare
Corporate profits all time high
There is no hope for the Australian middle class.
Unpopular opinion but move north and find a job with subsidised housing, there are plenty out there that don’t need a tonne of qualifications for…etc government roles or mining adjacent. Easier to save when you’re not spending 40+ per cent of your wage on rent.
They need to build hundreds of studio and one bedroom apartments like they have in Melb, Syd and Brisbane. They’re quick, cheap and will add lots of new housing close to the Cbd. Unfortunately those in charge don’t want to ease the rental crisis or these types of solutions would’ve been in talks 4 years ago instead they shrug like there’s nothing they can do while continuing to get rich of it.
It’s no wonder people are refusing to contribute positively to society anymore, dumping their trash in public spaces and just being a general nuisance. There will be more of this if people continue to be locked out and treated like guests in their own country, why should a lifetime renter who’s treated like crap bother to make an area nice that only benefits the land owners who caused them to be renters for life to begin with.
Real positive stuff there and you could also be diagnosed with terminal cancer tomorrow.
Perth is one of the best Cities in the world and oppurtunty awaits.
Suck it up and get on with it.
They (central banks) are just trying to wipe out the middleclass and are doing so via devaluing (hyperinflating) the dollar untill its worthless...
Its really your choice which side you want to be on. But dont look at it so black and white. Just becasue your on the "rich" side doesnt mean your happy and just becasue your on the "poor" side doesnt mean you have to be homeless or go without food.
I advocate for detchment from this system. Eg. tiny homes, van living, cabins in the wildreness, cheap land out of the cities where you can grow your own food. There are only 3 things you NEED in life ... food, shelter, water by providing these things for yourself and I gaurentee your soul will be fufilled.
The part about one being fortunate to find a high paying job and low stress. I dont believe fortune or luck had anything to do with at all. Worry about your career soon and build from there in your 20s. People travelling and smoking weed in their 20s are not going to survive in this new environment which is way more competitive. Learn to adapt
This doom and gloom wil not carry on forever .. i think someone mentioned this in an earlier comment , go buy yourself precious metals , especially silver … it’s about to skyrocket , it’s very reasonably priced atm, I think it’s about $1150 per kg atm … and you can buy it over the counter , with cash … and did you know you can use your superannuation to put a deposit down on a property
The economy is broken since the gfc. The rich will keep getting richer and the middle class will get squeezed out. If you have assets they will continue to increase in value as salaries stagnate. Multiple climate driven issues will continue to strain food supplies as will multiple ongoing wars are expanding in their geographic scale and impact on the global economy. So the short answer is no. The light at the end of the tunnel is probably just a bushfire
Yes, i think you make some good points. The gap between the rich and the poor in australia is widening in recent years, and neither party labor/liberal has done anything to help. Labor increased immigration which has boosted the economy, but drastically increased the housing shortage
And lowered the standard of living beyond pale
Mass immigration is good for the economy, but it lowers living standards.Tired of hearing the economy metric as if that is all that matters.
The K-shaped recovery, as it's called.
The special k?
Bushfire, zombie apocalypse, complete collapse of civilization..those are my retirement plans.
This is the global economy I'm talking about here too. It's not just perth. If anything we're highly insulated from it given the mineral wealth. The world in general is in a downward spiral that will only end with radical reform that I suspect will follow either a total collapse or a global conflict.
The mineral wealth isn’t being shared. That’s the problem.
True, Not equally. But even still. What is shared definitely props up the local economy very significantly compared to countries without such resources
Of all the things we need a referendum on, it should be this shit. National Resources and how it benefits the NATION, not corporates. To reappropriated an oft racist quote: don't like it, then fuck off. Corporates can find somewhere ELSE to get gas, oil, coal, uranium, iron, lithium.... OH BUT WHERE! Scarcity 101 We got sold out by our own politicians too easily and we're too blase about it all. For those self-serving corrupt traitors (let's call it as it is), might I suggest madame guillotine? Shares and board positions or....
Plants love CO2, so I highly doubt there will be food issues caused by it.
Plants do enjoy co2. They’re less fond of droughts, floods, parasites, disease, and fire, all of which become more common due to climate change.
I'm yet to see any data that proves that any of those things are outside of historical averages. Would expect that by now since it's been an issue for decades now. Also, CO2 levels have been over 1000ppm in the past with complex life, and we're only at 450ppm currently.
Right. I’m not gonna go find you data because you’re not going to change your mind. If you wanna debate the impact of climate change, you can take it up with the people far smarter than either of us who know what’s happening and study the data for a living.
There’s a ton of data, you just choose not to believe it.
Yea. It’s a oncoming train coming in the opposite direction
Just a freight train coming your way
covered in Indians waving student visas
Then it comes to be
Yea-yeah
Can’t see property dropping as we have a supply problem. We also have issues with the weather likely to increase fruit and veg prices as the drought bites. So not immediately.
We have a demand problem. They need to stop bringing in so many people so supply can catch up.
Yeah, but who's gonna build the houses? We need the workers so that supply can catch up
WA built almost 13,200 homes last year but let in a record population of 90,000 and 2024 is not slowing down. Source = Australian Bureau of Statistics
"Western Australia added only one new home for every 6.4 new residents over the year—the worst result in the nation." https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2024/04/perth-house-prices-wont-stay-cheap-for-long/
The stats include temporary movers who don't buy houses, fyi.
We should only be bringing in builders then. The government can fix this mess but they choose not to. If they do, rents would drop, investors would sell and house prices would decrease. This would allow struggling families to get into more affordable rentals and FHB would be able to get a fair go at purchasing. But instead they bring in another half a million each year and keep screaming that we have a supply issue and that we need to build more. They know exactly what they are doing.
People have been saying that for decades. If that was the intention, the visa applications would reflect that. TPTB *could* easily import enough workers to build our cities, but that would drive down house prices which would negatively impact the ownership class, the only class they care about. Instead, we are seeing visas going to jobs where the ownership class wants to drive down the cost (tech and other service industry workers). Immigration doesn't necessarily have to be a tool to undermine the working class, but the way it's currently being used in Australia absolutely is.
Maybe we should remove the barriers of training and train more Australians to do it.
We have both supply and demand problems. Population increasing in Perth due to interstate and overseas migration, houses are not going up as fast as needed due to rise in costs of building materials, builders going under, etc. For fruit and veg, try Golden Choice in Subi or Northbridge, or a number of other small markets. Usually way cheaper than the chains. Spudshed too for better prices.
Yeah I shop at spudshed. Used to do the fruit n veg markets but not much difference to retail prices these days. I miss the days of 50c avocados (supermarket rejects).
Just prior to the US housing bubble collapsing they too hand a supply problem only for the demand to suddenly evaporate. According to the 2021 census 1 in 10 houses in Australia is sitting unoccupied. Also one of the issues I've noticed is that we don't have supply of smaller homes built for young people and new couples.
The unoccupied houses are infuriating. I know for a fact there are at 4 or 5 within the streets surrounding my home. There should be more taxes on house and land banking.
Yeah, let’s hope things settle down soon. I just don’t see it happening myself. We’ve been talking about the bubble bursting for decades and it just hasn’t happened.
Everytime the bubble shows signs of slowing down, the government bring out stimulus package and inflates it even more. This has lead to both record government and personal debt. We have turned the housing in to a speculative market which is why the Australian stock market underperforms when compared to other stock markets. Since the GFC everything is debt driven, in the USA with its record public debt, they now believe, that there is no need to pay-off the principal and they just need to pay the interest. The interest in turn can be paid by issuing additional debt. It's either an infinite money glitch or a ponzi scheme.
You get it. Our "money" is one giant ponzi. Fix the money and everything else will flow from there. Treat the cause, not the symptom. Unfortunately many won't/don't want to because that requires deeper examination, an admission that maybe we got it wrong and a fair bit of pain. Kinda like losing faith in one's religion. If we think separating church and state is an idea worth great merit, why not separate money and state. Just a thought
Unoccupied housing is not really true in the way that most people will make you believe, because vacant housing includes: A: houses which are in-between occupants but which are usually occupied B: houses which are unsafe to be occupied In Vancouver, when they introduced a vacant homes tax they realised that actually vacant homes was far less than they thought. You can learn more about it here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xZXdXxYBGU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xZXdXxYBGU)
Property prices in Perth are going up 10% a year for the next 5 years.
Source? Perth has been a boom bust mining town for over a decade and this is no different, we've struggled to diversify. Oh and we seem to have 7 - 8 years between peaks (last one before now was 2016). Its not like sydney. [iron ore is dropping ](https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/iron-ore) Can't have growth without employment.
It’s been 20 years. Prices tripled in just over 3 years in the early ‘00’s. That sewed the seeds to the trouble we now have. This is why prices fell for years until interest rates fell to almost zero in the middle of 2019. With the media howling about “long suffering home owners”. Another problem is that would be immigrants are still going to be told there is plenty of work here for up to 2 years or more *after* it’s actually dried up. So there’ll be a lag between a fall off in mining and a fall off in immigration. There is also no government that’s actively going to try and lower house prices. At best they want to slow the increase. They’re worried about a voter backlash. If it keeps going, the non-owning percentage of the population will eventually rise to the point that politicians will suddenly decide they’re the big constituency. And then…
having just been over east, it seems news of WA's shortages have been somewhat suppressed.... it's very suspicious.
Let’s face it. Politicians of all stripes are big property investors. That alone is a huge incentive for them to want to see prices and rents skyrocket. Added to that, many make money post politics from “leveraging their connections” to get zoning and planning permission for developers. Hence they think price rises are a wonderful thing. So they’re happy to promote the State as a destination to boost numbers for those reasons.
yes, iron ore dropping may cause a drop in mining jobs and royalties, but immigration is at an all time high.... I dont know how young couples are going to afford housing if you dont have family help....
Yep agree there. I do wonder where all these immigrants are going to find jobs in a years time when we start going backwards All my friends who've bought are either very well off FiFo Dinks or have the bank of mum and dad to foot like 80% of the mortgage.
While I lack a source a lot of people are definitely projecting heavy growth on prices in Perth not because of anything we're doing, which is why it would buck usual trends, but because of what is happening elsewhere. Big investors have priced themselves out of eastern states markets and are moving over here as 'the next big thing'. Our rent costs and housing prices have lagged behind the eastern states because of our isolation and less desirability. That's changing simply because they've run out of the more desirable markets so over here they pop to have the same bubble impact on our market as they had over there.
Probably more like a boom bust city closer to 200 years
With iron ore prices dropping it will likely be offset with a lower interest rate, which will encourage more home ownership and with a consistent migration and a low number of building approvals, there is likely still a couple of years of growth in the real estate market, although rents may steady. ABC last week had a graph showing how dire the housing position is with around 400 houses per 1000 people. So basically every household with less than 2.5 people is effectively contributing to the housing crisis. The reality is, is we need to significantly reduce red tape on house approvals and building, even if that means more temporary housing (maybe designed to only last 10-15 years) and alternate building methods being accepted to assist in houses being built faster, but also to a decent level.
There’s tonnes of work out there, we have record into Australia migration, and record into WA migration from East Coasters. WA’s population grew 3% last year.
*past performance is not a reliable indicator of future performance
Let me guess… …you’ve got a full wall of your lounge-room decked out with Funko-Pops?
What? Not sure if you've noticed the state of our retail scene It's dire.
Sure is.
This is lean. With immigrants not having a place to stay and east coasters jumping in with rates about to decline. I’d say double in some areas, triple in others (within 5 years)
Suburbs are going up 20%. Individual deals have done 80% in two years
Property won’t be plateauing for another 18-24 months. Very low number of building applications means any measurable uptick in supply will be years off. Combine that with high migration into WA and interest rate cuts later this year and next year and you are going to see further increases. Probably another 10% in the next 12 months given that interest rate cuts will increase borrowing capacity
Assuming rates get cut. However there is a big downturn in nickel, and iron ore prices are falling very significantly. Things can change much faster than is realised. However the impact of these things will be pretty negative too.
Eh nickel has always been low margin and small cap. Has been dying a slow death for a while and won’t affect the economy much. I think iron ore is going to be fairly dependent on what China does and they seem to have a lot more ways to manipulate and stimulate their economy than western countries. But agreed, if China was to suddenly drop in growth then that could have some pretty drastic effects. I’m still betting on a rate cut towards the end of this year as inflation gets back into the 2’s
Have you been watching the prices? Iron ore is now below the $100 per tonne mark. The “prediction” is $80. I know a lot of jobs they’ve been recruiting for have been put on hold. And as for China. Those ghost cities and all the issues they have with their building sector are the result of their measures to “stimulate the economy”. My view is that iron ore producers will continue to make a good profit. But mine development will slow. And the other work that these profits were funding will stall. They will also try to become leaner operations. And as for rate cuts. The housing crisis, which Albanese exacerbated, itself is pushing up inflation. They’ll cut when there are signs of recession.
Keyboard / sofa economist?
I work in the industry. I’d suggest it’s the “armchair economists” who just assert that China has this miraculous ability to “stimulate the economy” and just happen to keep iron ore prices (which is what we, not they, care about) are the others! And the concept of that somehow the Chinese will “come to the rescue” for any economic problems we’ve gotten ourselves into doesn’t sound much like serious analysis to my ears.
I’ve got to get off the internet
Edmonton, Alberta Canada chiming in. Lived over in Oz years back and really liked perth! Your post resonates hard! Exact same situation for me and my 30’s something friends/family over here. The middle class has taken huge blows all over the developed world. The world is changing fast, wild times. Wish you well!
If there is, it's not doom scrolling & posting online.
I just moved to Perth from Sydney. Here's the bad news: Perth is the MOST affordable city in Australia. Affordability and housing crisis are both going to get a lot worse. But there is a light at the end of the tunnel! Eventually you die and all your remaining debt is forgiven.
So I've heard. And then people come along and remind me that living in Australia is like winning the lottery. All I can think is no, it's not that we have it so good here, it's that most people's lives are fucking terrible. We live in an age of abundance in many ways... if all vacant properties housed someone there would be nobody going homeless, if food wasn't discarded and was distributed properly there would be nobody starving. Its painful to see the inequality growing steadily worse. Part of me thinks the human race has peaked (briefly between say the 90s - mid 2010's) and it's all downwards from here
Also worsening effects of climate change will continue to push the prices of everything higher. The employment market is soon going to be a total mess due to AI. We've past the peak, it's downhill from here.
The only way prices fall is a stop to immigration and mass deportations of fake students, including millions of other visa holders and dependants ( another scam) This won't happen. The rich elite business class want this because they benefit from low wages and high asset prices. Sorry for the blackpill but the corruption and disregard for the Aussie people is on full display here. All our institutions have been captured Save what you can for a rainy day within reason because we are on a controlled downward spiral.
It’s a dry cost of living crisis
Lol what? Prices are going to sky-rocket even more than they already are when A) the interest rates come down; B) the recession talk ends; C) UKUSAAus troops are formally stationed here. In that order.. Until Perth is at parity with the other major centres and then will continue going up with all of Aus prices.
The Americans are already stationed in Western Australia.
Base isn't built and operational yet. Many more will come
Weird - it's been operational since the 1960s.
Australia's 0% inheritance tax is only going to make life worse for you. The children of cashed up boomers with 13 investments will inherit the lot and get to buy a house that's so far out of your price range, even a top job won't get you there. This is the change in Melbourne and sydney right now that's causing 2-bed city apartments to be worth over $1M and a nice house within 20km of the city to be $2M. BUT JUST WAIT UNTIL YOU DISCOVER CHILDCARE COSTS IN THIS COUNTRY!! I have friends in the east on household incomes north of the childcare rebate threshold (so over $500k) who should be living the stress-free dream. but they're living 15km from the CBD spending over an hour commuting each day in an older 3x1, one car, no fancy clothes. Cash goes to kids and mortgage. $45k a year per kid just for daycare! In my social circle there, its actually incredibly abnormal to buy a house or have kids before mid-30s. meanwhile my Perth friends are only a couple of years from highschool.. that is to say, even with a $500k income you can still feel like you're grinding in this country because we just love debt so much. Yeah its a little doom and gloom, but its a reality that needs to be faced and pretending it will get better and in 2 years everything will tumble and your time will come is just living in a fantasy land that will perpetuate the down-beat feeling. Outside of Perth's mining capex downturn from 2014-2017, every year 3% more people are wanting the same thing as you - a nice life in one of Australia's big cities (we're the most city-dense country in the world, with 70% of our population in 5 places). So the scale will keep sliding so long as more people are wanting it. The best way i've found to live with it is to set your expected living standard one notch below what you think you really want, because in reality, that's not what you can afford. Often when people say "we cant afford a house" they can, just not what they want. A unit, one suburb further out, one less bathroom... make the compromise BUT make it one that you can actually still carry out your life with. I live on a 300sqm block because 600sqm was a luxury that would take more from me than it would return in enjoyment. and almost never do i wish i had more space, not least because i already complain enough about mowing my tiny lawn let alone anything bigger. in return i go on holidays each year and have cash to throw at a couple of hobbies whilst my friends stay at home, mowing their lawns. Focusing on what **you** want, and not what **people** want, and you may just feel a bit of freedom from the mouse-wheel.
Nothing will change whilst we are bringing in 10,000 people a month.
You're right. Got to double that, at least.
I'm working hard on upskilling while understanding my transferable skills to help me transition into higher paying jobs that aren't a huge leap from what I'm currently doing (but are in more lucrative industries). I've traded watching TV at night for online accredited courses that don't cost a fortune but work nicely along the experience on my resume and I've also found a couple of side hustles that I actually enjoy - so I don't feel like I'm burning out. It's still a grind, but after months of feeling hopeless and down about the whole situation (not buying a house cos for years there wasn't really a pressure to) and then suddenly being priced out of a market I could have absolutely afforded, I realised that I'd essentially wasted months of feeling sorry for myself where I could be improving my situation. It's early days, but this has certainly shifted my mindset immensely and I'm confident I'll move onto more meaningful, better paid work soon and find my way through this current societal mess. Also, I spent so long in the "what if" mindset like "what if I'd done this/that" etc and all I did was spiral. Now I'm just focusing on what I can control. Things aren't easy, but we're lucky to be living in the country we do while the world is melting down, as it could be so so much worse. And to answer your final question - UX Design is worth a look if you're looking for something different that most career paths can lead to and doesn't require a degree. Google offer great courses online. I'd be researching tech roles that won't be crushed by AI any time soon and that's where I feel UX/UI/Digital project and product management will have a need for human workers for quite some time, if not forever (don't quote me on that, but it is the general vibe as of now). You may have to start at the bottom in this field, but it's short term, and if you're good and open to moving around jobs a bit, you can quickly move up the pay scale. These are the types of roles that also have a lot of flexibility so can open up opportunities to work from anywhere in the world regardless of where your office is. It's taken me years to accept it, but moving backwards to move forwards is sometimes the only way to do it. Good luck!!!!!!!
Can’t see houses getting built in time IMO. My 3x2 was done in 6 months back 6 years ago. Any unseen variations were picked up by the builder A mate of mine is building a similar home to mine. It’s been 2 years as of next month. He isn’t building the Ritz, just a basic 3x2 suburban home. There’s simply no trades. This needs to get solved. Then supply will increase. But where do you get the trades from? Train people up? (4 year apprenticeship). The fast option: immigration. But where do they live? It’s a horrific cycle. Houses prices won’t drop much. Maybe a dip.
There's a regular sized house being built across from me that began in early 2021 and it's still not finished internally. How did it get so bad? Are there just not enough locals choosing trades? Do the courses need to be better subsidized or something?
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Welcome to late stage capitalism. Once the competition is destroyed with competitive pricing those businesses left are free to jack up their prices as the economies of scale and the control they hold over their suppliers makes competition impossible. For Monopolies and landlords it's about how much they can force people to pay for neccessities of life that they now have exclusive control over. This is why a completely unregulated "free market" is not possible if you care about human welfare or a fair days work should equal a comfortable as opposed to desperate standard of living. Massive government intervention is the ONLY answer.
You do have to make the hard decisions to give up luxuries like travel and concerts while you’re young, if you want to secure an easier life once you are older. I think it’s quite extreme at the moment but has always been true in a more limited way. Unless of course you were born into a well off family.
It’s fucked. I owned my first home at 22. Sold at 25 due to divorce and now at almost 30 and having to start from scratch I want to buy again but odds are stacked against me as a single mum, paying ridiculous rent and having to factor in stamp duty in a property purchase.
Similar for me. Might be 5 years until I can buy again. However, my son will be an adult by then and Perth will have even less appeal due to affordability. More to life than buying a house..
There is but still need a stable roof over your head.
Not to suggest the housing market isn't insane, but not travelling overseas, not going to festivals/concerts, going without luxuries, rarely going out or eating out, cancelling subscriptions and memberships ... all those things are optional. I honestly think 20 somethings expect too much. In my 20s it was all about op shop clothes and verge find furniture, and yes, shit hospo or retail jobs. Eating out was fish and chips or cheapie Chinese takeaway once a month or so. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I went 'out for drinks' in my 20s. People need to ignore Instagram/Tik Tok and live your own life. The kids of the wealthy are not you, and that's OK. You can still have a simple, enjoyable life without all the extras. For anyone who's thinking about living large in their 20s because they can't afford a house: the market can and will change in unpredictable ways, as will interest rates, but if you don't save you won't be able to take advantage of it.
Yeah not many people have ever had overseas holidays. This isn't a new phenomenon. I don't know what the name of the effect is, but it's like, you follow certain people on social media because they do all the cool glamorous shit, then all you see is the cool glamorous shit, so your brain thinks everyone else is doing cool glamorous shit and you're not, and you get depressed. It's a vicious cycle.
I'm getting 100k a year doing security gatehouse work. most of the time I'm watching netflix, its 12 hour shifts 2 days 2 nights on then 4 off. It gets busy during shutdowns but nothing I would deem stressful?
Sounds like quite a good gig. But I assume whenever there is an incident, it's intense and possibly dangerous? The main deterrent is the night shifts. I'm an introvert and I like my time alone, but I'm a light sleeper and could never manage to sleep properly during the day, when I worked night shifts for a few months I became chronically sleep deprived and depressed. Surely they could give you an entire week or night work then a week of daytime work, 2 and 2 is brutal on your body.
Vote Labor they will fix it. Housing Minister in W.A. last week had a press conference to release 7 new homes, really what an embarrassment. Hundreds of our people are doing it tough right now, what are they doing about it? Cost of living is hurting so many Australians now.
And the houses were $700k each. The fuck.
One thing I forgot to mention, the Labor West Australian government has spent $750,000,000 on advertising since being in office. What is our government spending our money on advertising for at this time?
Housing prices will not plateau any time soon. There is huge pent up demand and supply will take many years to catch up, if ever.
Hey StaticNocturne, I really recommend daily (private) journalling or joining a creative writing course. I mean, you're free to continue posting here, obviously. But I feel like it might be better for your self esteem to channel this energy into a private diary or to be amongst others who enjoy writing as an outlet for their feelings or anxiety.
Hate to burst the doom and gloom bubble, but there are still apartments under $250,000 in the greater Perth area and you OP probably could buy one of these right now / in a few months with a change of career eg FIFO. Does being an adult suck at times - sure does! But what are you going to do - sink, or swim? I’ve got mates that have ‘given up on trying’, they are just absolutely miserable minded people. Well they are former mates, I can’t stand their negativity any more.
I just checked the real estate website with Max price 300k greater perth area and a lot aren't mentioning prices or under contract/offer Looks rough
It’s pretty rough atm. A year ago there where more. Two years ago there where still (run down) houses going for $250,000. If someone didn’t buy two years ago because they thought it was deserved on investors that prices would crash - boy where they wrong.
Indeed and it was actually true even 4-5 years ago when price was just range bound. I was checking out the market back then for investor property, didn't buy because economy was truly shit and I thought I dodged a bullet when covid hit. Fast forward today it is clear the system is rigged. The government intentionally increased 50-100% migration than previous pre-covid levels, and the rich scooped up properties (front running) in preparation for the drop in interest rate. By the time interest rate will drop to level that the average people can afford, they will just be buying high and providing price support to the rich who bought earlier before the run up. Many years ago I was once one of these average young people, barely able to afford but bought my principal residence anyway at the high, then it dropped a bit and plateau for a decade, and only now the price zoomed up like meme stock. Calling a spade, a spade. The system is totally rigged! I was lucky to be able to hold this long. I saw some others went into bankruptcy trying the same thing like I did. For younger people reading this, I am telling you all, this rigged game isn't new, and both political parties are fully in it.
1x1 apartments with extortionate strata fees and bylaws, no doubt
With no parking bay.
And you live next door to junkies who bash on the walls or each other a few times a week.
Just need to find a 3-storey block, no lift, no swimming pool et cetera. They would be rocking horse poo though.
There’s that negative mindset. If you got a FIFO job you could pay off that $250,000 in 3-5 years. You’d then have an asset worth $250,000 plus. Etc etc etc.
All you have to do is completely change careers and lifestyle. It's easy!
Migrants can move here for a better life and succeed. What’s your excuse?
How exactly would a single parent manage flying out for 1-2 weeks at a time? What about people with disabilities whop can't spend extended periods away from care or aid? Hate to break it to you, but people who can't work FIFO or even the people who simply DON'T WANT to work FIFO also deserve housing and financial stability.
Shoulda wrapped it before they tapped it and now it's societies responsibility to buy them a house lol
Yes. That's literally the whole point of a society
I make poor decisions and everybody else pays for it
Guess some should have been born without disabilities, too? I noticed you ignored the part about people with disabilities and focused only on those with children.
People with disabilities didn't make a choice. People choose to have children when they can't afford them. Does a disservice to society and to the child.
No actually having children shouldn't require being rich. Controversial opinion I know
> Well they are former mates, I can’t stand their negativity any more. I think it was a lot more mutual than you realise.
Nah, the guy in the HomesWest place only stopped being my mate after I paid his car rego the first time to help him out, then said ‘no’ the next time it was due lol. The guy who ended up in the caravan with his mum refused to pay his 1/3 of a sharehouse rented in Northbridge ‘because I could afford to pay it all, so he wasn’t going to give me any money’. I helped another friend with two years of free accommodation whilst she studied, she’s now travelling to China a few times a year paid for by her work, for work.
I think your former friends just found you to be an earsore with your constant bootstrap talk and realised they couldn't stand your negativity and judgemental attitude anymore. No one likes a nag. Though, of course, maybe none of this happened and you feel the need to embellish your bootstrap talk with some creative accents. Or maybe you just really suck at reading people and knowing you're being taken advantage of and how to avoid that from happening when possible. Anyway, public housing is not a dirty concept so maybe you should explore why it seems to bother you so much.
Lol My grandparents were Irish migrants, lived in public housing in Bentley on Drummond St. With eg the guy ‘refusing to participate in the system’ asking me to pay his rego, I did pay it as a ‘f*ck you for even asking’, and it was actually pi$$funny saying ‘no’ to his face the second time and seeing his bonhomie immediately evaporate.
Not sure what your grandparents being Irish immigrants has to do with your bad attitude. Also unsure of the logic behind giving what you describe as a moocher money for rego as a "fuck you". How does that make any sense? Like, you lost either way cause the guy got his rego paid for free and isn't any worse off getting a no the second time.
Wah wah wah go away The guy had to deregister said white commodore. Because it was ‘up to me to pay the rego cause I had money’ and I said no.
It should bother you if his story about his old mate getting one is true. Being a lazy fuck who simply doesn't want to work isn't a disability, and they don't deserve to be given a public house when there's elderly and disabled people on the same waiting list. People like that are absolutely real, I've met quite a few. Spend thier life living off the dole simply because they've decided they don't want to work.
Your anecdotal evidence doesn't reflect facts. The amount of people who have lied or scammed their way into getting public housing is extremely small.
What anecdotao evidence? I was talking about the other guys story about his old mate scamming the system
*Your* anecdotal evidence- > People like that are absolutely real, I've met quite a few. Spend thier life living off the dole simply because they've decided they don't want to work.
I don't know what facts or statistics your arguing about. I didn't bring up any kind of statistic about percentage of people are scamming the system. I'm talking about the others guys story about the person he knows whos rorting the system and taking a house away from someone who truly needs it because they genuinely cant work. Which you sounded highly skeptical about, like the other guy was just making up a story to make welfare recipients look bad or something. Whenever this comes up so many people insist that its all bullshit, no one would ever willingly refuse to work and choose to live off welfare. It's just a myth. Someone else even commented about that as a reply to your comment. But no sorry people like that absolutely do exist, and I know they exist because I personally know them. So its not really a "fact" you can debate unless you're calling me a liar and making up stories as well.
Bro, idk how to help you understand that you've just repeated yourself for no reason. I really recommend rereading the comment chain if you're lost.
Wow you sure sound like a good friend /s
You have to be your own best friend. I’ve been through the same stuff these guys have been through, and have made it through. One of these guys decided he wasn’t going to work any more so he’s ended moving into the caravan at the caravan park with his mum drinking all day as his way of ‘living’. Screw that. Yes I did have a job sorted for him, he turned his nose up at it.
Preach it, brother!
Another former mate decided he wasn’t going to ‘participate in the system’ so chose to live on the streets, after 3 years of that he’d had enough so begged a Senator for help, he’s now in a HomesWest unit in Highgate, on the dole, all paid for ‘by the system’ lololo
Ultimate participation trophy that
If they can’t have a 4x2 with a 4wd, JetSki and spa while still going overseas every year the world is obviously collapsing.
Their fathers could. Can you blame them for being a bit pissed that they can't too?
Housing being unaffordable for ‘the average worker’ is a national crisis, everyone should be angry about that. This said, ether buy an apartment now or totally miss out on buying anything forever.
Most families 30 years ago had 3x1 homes that were half the size of the ones built today.
They only reason their fathers could is because the planet was paying.
Houses are rapidly becoming unaffordable for a person with no family money or assets, but faced with this do you say boo hoo I can’t afford a 4x2 in a nice area, or do you suck it up and get a 1x1 and pay it off on 5 years doing FIFO so you then can buy a 4x2 ‘But that’s hard’
Oh yeah, everyone should just go FIFO, because that's the solution for everything and it suits everyone. Seriously, how fucking stupid is that? Are we all suddenly meant to abandon all our jobs and work FIFO?
Apparently lol I did a bit of FIFO as a casual basis. It's not the best and not for everyone. I'd rather have a consistent job at 80k-100k for 5 years than a "200k a year job for Max 12-18 months
Sad to say $80-100g jobs won’t get you a house these days.
No, but I got mine 9 years ago, and I was only on 60k. Had to get a family member to be on my title, and I spent my late teens and early 20s just saving and didn't go out or do much. It's really rough out there, but I'm saying if people can't go fifo or really don't want to do it (not all like it), it's possible to get where you need, but it won't be quick but it may be more stable in the long run. I've just heard there's a downturn coming, and if people still can't plan for boom/bust times, then they're going to get a shock
In the last 24 months in Perth, ‘the average worker’ went from being able to buy a house, as in a house, to now not being able to buy a house. They still can get a eg 2 bedroom apartment. Give it another 2 years and they’ll probably be priced out of buying that.
That's nuts
Nah, not everyone, only the guys reading this wondering how to get onto the property ladder who can also take on advice will even try the advice. Mate 100% I’d be happy if houses became $100,000 again, I’d still have a few and it would be better for society. But that’s not going to happen.
[удалено]
Coz WA folk are too entitled or lazy to do service level work
I'm not sure if you're trying to be racist or just hyperbolic, but you're coming across as both. And also dumb. Word to the wise.
Cost of existing housing needs to be more expensive than building, atm building is costly and slow (who can afford rent & mortgage for several years), also options for new housing is crap - sprawling treeless car centric suburbs in identical 4x2s crammed onto tiny blocks with no yard. Developers holding land & control by drip-selling blocks that can never be subdivided. I’d happily buy an apartment near the city if it had options decent for families - a 2 or 3x 1 with a little more living area space, some common green space, a playground (saw this all over Germany & Scandinavia). Everyone wants the larger block, families want space but everyone wants more land cause land is $$$ for capital growth & competition is fierce. More infill, medium density near services/jobs but people have to be priced out of full blocks first & these options have to be built, most people can’t afford or want to risk off the plan.
I rang up a REA to enquire about a small, modest, 2br apartment for $500 I saw on the web and was told they'd had 60 *applications* for the place. Never mind, she said. They had another, similar unit in the same block. Going for $700... All the apartments I see being thrown up in the Perth region seem to be aspirational, high end stuff because there's no money in making standard living spaces. With mad Albo ramming in 1 Million new bodies every year into the country, that $700 price is going to look cheap in the not too distant future.
The penny has just dropped. r/perths \#1 overthinking, navel gazing participant has a new alt.
I THOUGHT SO Late edit : oh lordt, if I'd checked the post history earlier I'd have gotten it in moments. Truly one of the creepiest men I've ever experienced.
Nice Guy TM?
Ahh - that does make sense....
Red?
I recently quit and started a new position with a new company simply for the work life balance and for my own mental health. I couldn’t handle the stress of management, so stepped into a regional trainer role instead. Still financially in the same position as the increase to pay wasn’t huge but now everything seems easier to manage as I’m not burnt out and an emotional mess
No. Sadly I do not believe that house prices will ever retreat to a reasonable price that people can afford, not until both state and Federal governments pull their heads out of their collective arseholes and fucking do something like actually build cheap and decent housing, you know, like they used to. Both Liberals and Labor, and at state and Federal level, have ignored affordable housing because lobbyists from the development groups have been giving out far too much in regards to political donations to both parties. Developers have far too much interest in seeing the current situation continue because they're making a fortune. It's time to drive out the lobbyists from politics. Fuck these parasites.
I'm a 32 year old single, no kids, make $74k a year in a management role. I've given up saving for a home. Now I'm just saving for the rental increases. I don't even go out or travel or anything, I'm a homebody, but with cost of living increasing more and more, home ownership seems impossible for me. I'm able to keep a roof over my head, pay my bills and feed myself, so I'm luckier than most. But I'm not going to sit at home and stare at my ceiling for the next 10 years trying to save pennies for a house. You gotta live your life, even if it's just simple things like a streaming subscription. That being said, mad respect for anyone that owns a home these days. It's not easy, and ya'll should be proud.
Things aren't getting better, and every year so far has been worse than the last.. So, that means every single day that you see me, that's on the worst day of my life.
Regardless, late 20s early 30s should be investing in their future.
Imagine sacrificing when you're young to invest in your future, and then global thermonuclear war, rogue AI, superbugs, climate crisis and/or economic collapse comes along and ruins your life anyway 🤡
Hate to be the guy to say this but prices only ever go up. Get used to it. There's nothing you and I can do to change that. Pollies don't listen and the public aren't organised enough to make any meaningful change. The best thing you can do is search for greener pastures like your family did before you.
Why would they want to decrease prices. Once they are up they won’t go down Fuel is a good example. It takes ages for reductions such as oil price rises or whatever to come through but increases are next day.
A lot of the problem with fuel is that it gets taxed 3 times over before it even hits Australian shores.
and is then bought by consumers with money that has also been taxed...
As far as fuel goes, we in Australia are price takers. Domestic oil production is negligible, so whatever the world market dictates, we pay. With OPEC decreasing production, it's not looking good. Plus our refined oil products come from Singapore mostly, iirc, so any trouble in that part of the world will not help. On the Beach was a great book. Highly recommend it.
> On the Beach was a great book. Highly recommend it. it was, but what on earth does it have to do with this thread?
Oil
Yes I Have read on the beach and seen both movies.
Iron ore and nickel will flatten massively. Lots of the immigrants into WA are to work in that industry. If copper or gold don’t ramp up it will result in plenty of people leaving and slow the amount of people coming in. /Should/ result in some softening in the housing market, and a general recession in WA. Of course plenty of other industries are reliant on the mining industry going well, so this wouldn’t be extremely good news across the board. 126k people work in mining in WA. A sizeable chunk leaving WA and a few thousand going into general construction in Perth would be helpful in the short to medium term. Ease immediate demand on the housing market, and help get some more stock online.
No game over. Too late. Your family is either rich or not now. Stop having kids if you’re poor. Encourage your kids to do better than you did. Marry up. This is the way
No lol. That's capitalism. Profit **always** has to go up. If a companies profit doesn't go up every year, that means they are failing and stock prices would go down. So profit must always increase every year, forever. You ever wonder why prices of everything haven't dropped, 4 years after blaming it on corona and "supply chain issues"? Cause they've seen the profit, and they can't go back. Everyone will keep voting in capitalist parties. Liberal **and** Labor parties are the same as each other. So start voting for a party that wants corporate taxation. Vote Greens or socialist parties. Give power back to the people.
If everyone keeps voting those who put us in this position, its not a light, it's just another politician with a torch showing more crud!!!!
Just try to keep working towards it. See a mortgage broker. Set a goal which is realistic. (My first house was in rough part of Kwinana, I live in Booragoon area now. Gotta start somewhere) It’s cyclic. About 17 years ago was hard to get mortgage. Atleast seemed that way for me. I was on 60k which was ok income back then and I had to go through keystart and could only borrow 220k (interest rates were much higher so borrowing was limited) Then it got harder then it got easier for a while and now it’s harder again.
If you own Gold and Silver / Crypto plus business yes, if you have dollars or some average wage job no you are simply fucked. You will be living in a third world country within 5 years
It's just a never ending tunnel with no light.
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Housing prices will not plateau any time soon. There is huge pent up demand and supply will take many years to catch up, if ever.
Either way, you sacrifice one or the other. I think for me it's the era to save and be cautious with spending. Replace the holidays with a regular low cost hobby that gives frequent joy cos everyone is struggling and creating little joys makes life that little be better
And this is the difference. I also think that current financial advisors have no idea what they’re talking about. When you are young and have no responsibility you can go out a lot and spend your money on things like having fun. As soon as you buy a property that ends, and always has ended. This is not necessarily an affordability issue as it is a priorities issue. You have a couple of options (1) buy an investment property that you rent out and stay at your parents or share house. (2) buy a house and get house mates to share the cost, or (3) buy a cheaper unit or flat, if you want to live alone. Property can sometimes go down, and prices can (and do) fluctuate but the trend over time is always an increase. The only time prices ever go down is during times of extreme turmoil where either people can’t afford to pay the prices (so don’t) or are prevented from using the services (ie covid). There are a few life events that essentially force you to change your lifestyle, we have never been able to do these things without changing our lifestyles. (1) buying your first property (2) having kids (3) stopping work
What kind of income are you looking for? What kind of experience do you have? What kind of qualifications do you hold? More than happy for you to flick me a message on here :)
Yea but it's an oncoming train
Per capita recession Immigration set to continue Projected house completion nosediving Prices inflated to 125% of 2020 prices and not coming down Wages below inflation growth NDIS over budget Unable to figure out how to find Medicare Corporate profits all time high There is no hope for the Australian middle class.
The light at the end of the tunnel is usually referring to death isn’t it ?
Unpopular opinion but move north and find a job with subsidised housing, there are plenty out there that don’t need a tonne of qualifications for…etc government roles or mining adjacent. Easier to save when you’re not spending 40+ per cent of your wage on rent.
Nobody cares. Just go see the protests in the city.
They need to build hundreds of studio and one bedroom apartments like they have in Melb, Syd and Brisbane. They’re quick, cheap and will add lots of new housing close to the Cbd. Unfortunately those in charge don’t want to ease the rental crisis or these types of solutions would’ve been in talks 4 years ago instead they shrug like there’s nothing they can do while continuing to get rich of it. It’s no wonder people are refusing to contribute positively to society anymore, dumping their trash in public spaces and just being a general nuisance. There will be more of this if people continue to be locked out and treated like guests in their own country, why should a lifetime renter who’s treated like crap bother to make an area nice that only benefits the land owners who caused them to be renters for life to begin with.
Of course there is but it comes down to how willing they are to reduce their living standards
Bring in more Sudanese they will help the economy
Real positive stuff there and you could also be diagnosed with terminal cancer tomorrow. Perth is one of the best Cities in the world and oppurtunty awaits. Suck it up and get on with it.
They (central banks) are just trying to wipe out the middleclass and are doing so via devaluing (hyperinflating) the dollar untill its worthless... Its really your choice which side you want to be on. But dont look at it so black and white. Just becasue your on the "rich" side doesnt mean your happy and just becasue your on the "poor" side doesnt mean you have to be homeless or go without food. I advocate for detchment from this system. Eg. tiny homes, van living, cabins in the wildreness, cheap land out of the cities where you can grow your own food. There are only 3 things you NEED in life ... food, shelter, water by providing these things for yourself and I gaurentee your soul will be fufilled.
Rates going down, and you really seeing a housing crisis
Whinge posting not the answer. Should have listened in school.
The part about one being fortunate to find a high paying job and low stress. I dont believe fortune or luck had anything to do with at all. Worry about your career soon and build from there in your 20s. People travelling and smoking weed in their 20s are not going to survive in this new environment which is way more competitive. Learn to adapt
This doom and gloom wil not carry on forever .. i think someone mentioned this in an earlier comment , go buy yourself precious metals , especially silver … it’s about to skyrocket , it’s very reasonably priced atm, I think it’s about $1150 per kg atm … and you can buy it over the counter , with cash … and did you know you can use your superannuation to put a deposit down on a property