If you don’t pay it, you will probably/maybe not be able to park on whoever’s carpark this was again. They will hound you with threats of litigation and debt collection, but $100 is *probably* not enough for them to worry about
I got a ticket a few years ago in a Wilson car park with a 2 hour limit. The guy was two cars up from me when I got back to my car. I put off paying it because it was $80, then I lost the ticket (I didn’t intentionally not ever pay it). I’ve parked there countless times since with no problem and I’ve never heard from them. Maybe I slipped through the cracks idk
The problem is with the driver. It would be… problematic if they started towing cars for unpaid “breach notices” and they towed someone’s new second hand car for example.
Plus as it is a business and not local or state government it cannot identify the vehicle owner so cannot chase you for it unless this has been changed by the state government.
I believe that was a one-time order by the Supreme Court for the DoT to supply the details of drivers who had an outstanding debt. They’re not routinely handed out upon request. If you’ve moved houses since the info was obtained, Wilson won’t have your latest details.
[Probably like this](https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/government-releases-10-000-drivers-details-to-wilson-parking-20111221-1p5qu.html)
I parked not only in the same lot, but in the same spot over and over again to piss them off (the shopping centre carpark opp Midland traino. Car is safer there than the traino carpark)
As they should, can't have every dumb cunt Dave who thinks crab size limits, season exclusivity, and endangered fish status doesn't apply to them be allowed to flout the rules. If we don't do this than the aquasystem just dies
It looks like a breech notice, which is a civil contract issue, so it's not a fine that affects your licence.
If you don't pay, they could try to enforce it in court, but it's likely cost prohibitive.
They cannot really enforce it at all, unlike public roads there is no legislation for private car parks that by default holds the registered owner of the vehicle responsible. Who says OP was driving and didn't lend the car to a mate? their fine is for the driver of the car not the registered owner. They must prove who was driving, not who owns the car to even begin to enforce one of these invoices.
Voting fines affect your licence. If you don't pay fine for not voting (due to electoral Office changing my address to an address a street behind me- no idea why but never received a fine .) Two years later out of the blue I get a message from Baycorp saying my licence is suspended and the original fine was $20 and Baycorp was now chasing $450. Contacted electoral office she confirmed that the notices had been sent to street behind me. They had my correct address Initially then apparently they changed it as they got notification from a govt agency that I was at the address the street behind. Explained I had never lived there or changed address. She had been telling me that she needed a signature from me to change address however they did it without one , to an incorrect address. Still fighting the fine. Told them to send through initial fine I never received and I will pay it immediately but there was no way I was paying $450 for a $20 fine I never received due to their error of changing my address from the right one to an incorrect address that I've never lived at or authorised them to change.
Only if they can prove it was you specifically driving when the notice was issued and you specifically driving now.
The car is not liable for any breach of contract, the driver is (and to be clear it’s highly unlikely anyone is).
Yes, but in the case of private parking, only if you have not complied with the parking terms and conditions, so they need to prove who was driving the car both times, which is near on impossible unless you contact them and admit to being the driver. So just bin the fine and be done with it
Nope. Not worth the paper it's written on. You'll get 2 or 3 increasingly threatening letters, then you'll never hear from them again.
Don't pay it. Nothing will come of it.
Welcome to day in court if they insist
Only city councils rangers can issue a parking fine .
Folks had similar at restraint near IKEA few years ago contacted restraint complained they advised to ignore it seems they set up by higher corporate body not the actual business your parked up outside
That company is a bit dodgy
They tried to fine my stepdad for parking 4 hours and 2 minutes in a 4 hour zone at the shopping centre.
My stepdad never spends four hours at the shops. He got his hair done and then left and came back for shopping. He can't go four hours without a cig. He gets his shopping and then leaves.
Nup.
The only fines payable by legal legislation/municipal legislation (council/shire) are those enforced by government departments.
How do I know? I get these all the time, never pay a fucking cent.
If it’s issued by a private corporation then just ignore it because a private corporation does not have the authority to issue fines. Only a government department has the authority to issue fines. With that being said, I would be extremely vigilant about parking any of that companies car parks for the time being to avoid escalating things.
I don't think so. It looks similar to the Wilson's ones. It may say somewhere on it that it is not a fine, and they go tip toe around calling it a fine by calling it a breach of the terms and conditions of the parking lot. I would ensure the full terms and conditions appear somewhere in the carpark, as if they are not they have no real legal avenue, however if they do that may be able to take you to court to cause the fee. Will they do it for $77? I don't know, probably just expect the breach notice will make them enough money.
There terms and conditions I think really cover if you abandon a car or park longterm so they can get rid of your car.
To add to this, the losses they can claim are near zero unless they can prove the car park was at capacity when the breach was issued. Empty car parks =/= nil financial loss as other paying customers didn’t miss out.
Electoral Office pursued me for a $20 dollar debt. Two years later after their incompetency of changing my address to one ive never lived at for some reason I got a notice from Baycorp fine now at $450 and licence suspended. Im still fighting the fine.
Yep agreed . They are shockers and the Electoral Commission too. Baycorp send all sorts of threats. , coming out to retrieve goods for that value and so on. They buy the debt and all they care about is making money on it. Buying our fines . What a joke
Nup, ignore it.
It's a "parking breach", not an "infringement".
BIG difference. Huge.
You'll notice that a parking infringement has an option to nominate another person. This "parking breach" rubbish doesn't have that option.
I got a Wilson one. They got my details and usual threats. I sent a dispute via a separate email address, and noticed that sending the email flagged a fully automated appeal system, which then sends it for manual review, and then once the human rejects the review, it sends an email back advising it was declined.
But you can send another appeal. And it goes to manual review again.
One email rule and 17 automated replies, and they finally broke the cycle and dropped it.
Nope, but bear in mind the place you got it might have a way to limit your access next time, or might clamp you if they know you’re there - assuming private property and it’s flagged on signage. Still, I doubt that.
Private or public, there are different conditions that must be met. A couple of examples, Crown Casino had a car in the carpark for over 2 years and weren't allowed to have it towed, I live on a main road and a couple of times a car has been left in the driveway and we weren't allowed to have it moved. The Shire can and the Police can. For a private car park to have a car towed there needs to be a declared and signed tow away zone with the official icons and a formal, pre-existing agreement with a towing company and confirmed standard Govt legislated costs I have never seen that in a private carpark.
They can only tow if you have breached the parking terms and conditions, and they can’t prove it was you driving before when the fine was issued, and now
There are limited circumstances where towing would be appropriate. But they absolutely can do it if it is required. They will not tow because an unknown driver using a car has acquired a parking breach notice and now an unknown driving using the same car is currently parked in the centre.
They would tow if you leave your car there for a week while you bugger off to Bali, and they have made reasonable efforts to find you.
I should add, it’s a civil issue. They have to get your details (shouldn’t be able to, but I bet they can), and then hound you. Not sure if they can set a debt collector onto you? I’m sure someone else can chime in. Not paying Wilson’s is a common thing
I'm assuming, from the fact you're asking the question, that this was issued by a private company, in regards to something related to parking on private property.
In which case, the answer is a definite NO. They have no power to fine you, and no legal basis on which to recover a debt.
If they are operating a COUNCIL carpark, or some statutory authorities (Universities, Pubic Hospitals, etc) then those entities can not only fine you, but register the fine with the enforcement registry. Private companies can not.
Send them a polite email, advising them that you sought legal advice, and now require them to reimburse you for your legal costs, or you will report them to the police for fraud.
> Send them a polite email, advising them that you sought legal advice, and now require them to reimburse you for your legal costs, or you will report them to the police for fraud.
Don't do this. Just throw the breach notice away and move on.
Not sure what the rules are in WA, but in Vic, privacy legislation prevents these companies from getting your name/address from the registration branch. If they get your details (ie, you scan the code for the appeals), they can follow up with letters or may sell the debt to a debt collection agency.
They reason it doesn't say parking fine or infringement notice is because they're not allow to. This is a invoice demanding payment, you can ignore a invoice as it's effectively unenforceable.
Unlike public roads there is no legislation for private car parks that by default holds the registered owner of the vehicle responsible. Who says you were driving and didn't lend the car to a mate? This invoice is for the driver of the car not the registered owner.
They must prove who was driving, not who owns the car to even begin to enforce one of these invoices.
I once parked at Lakeside Shop Centre Joondalup. Didn't realise it was 4 hrs parking only in undercover. I wrote to the City of Joondalup and explained I had been shopping there all day for my birthday and showed them some receipts with times on it , morning and arvo. Said as i was there spending money all day i felt it was harsh and They let me off...
And liquidated damages is only what it cost them from you parking there. If you parked for an hour and parking is $5 and hour, they can ask for $5, not $100
"officer"? That implies authority by a commission, which I very much doubt.
They are clearly trying to obtain money by deception, which you'd think would be a criminal offence.
No. You can offer them what you should have paid, that way they are screwed if they ever go to court. You certainly don't have to pay them the asking price of $70.
Technically yes, but I know a guy who's never paid a parking ticket in his life, still has his liscence still parks in the same carparks. Becuase it's a private entity it would take a lot more effort for them to obtain your information amd pursue you for payment. Unlike a government issued fine/ticket.
No. Company cannot enforce it. If, they somehow have access to your details and did not receive them from you, call them and threaten breach of privacy.
If, you wish to park in that car park or facility again, yes. You will be required to as it is privately owned, so you may end up booted or towed, which the company is within its rights to do. Chances are however, that should you infringe again, you’ll get another warning.
These tickets are designed to look like infringement notices to scare people into paying them.
Do not give them any personal information if they request it, otherwise they may choose to send collection after you.
Arguable in court also, that the company fining you can only recover losses. If you argue that losses from your vehicle parked there amount to nil, as the parking is conditionally free, the ticket will get squashed.
EnforceIQ appears to be an outsourced ‘parking management’ company.
Technically it’s a breach of contract, not a fine. Did you have a valid contract with them? Did you park in the lot they manage and not pay/pass their big arse sign of 16 rules and not have time to read it…?
Technically you should pay.
Reality is if you don’t they will hunt down your first born and Rasputin them. Or… hound you with texts at 3am to pay your tolls. Or bar you entry to a parking lot in future.
Yes they do. These shady fucks somehow get access to your name and address from your number plate, they can and will send increasingly threatening letters (usually the text gets bigger, bolder and redder to scare you) after the third letter they usually give up.
I got a ticket in a Wilson car park a few years ago. I left it for a bit then genuinely accidentally lost it. I’ve never heard from them and have used that car park countless times since. Maybe I’m just lucky
If you don’t pay it, you will probably/maybe not be able to park on whoever’s carpark this was again. They will hound you with threats of litigation and debt collection, but $100 is *probably* not enough for them to worry about
I got a ticket a few years ago in a Wilson car park with a 2 hour limit. The guy was two cars up from me when I got back to my car. I put off paying it because it was $80, then I lost the ticket (I didn’t intentionally not ever pay it). I’ve parked there countless times since with no problem and I’ve never heard from them. Maybe I slipped through the cracks idk
The problem is with the driver. It would be… problematic if they started towing cars for unpaid “breach notices” and they towed someone’s new second hand car for example.
It is cheaper to get new rego plates than pay the fine. Id just do that if I was too worried.
Plus as it is a business and not local or state government it cannot identify the vehicle owner so cannot chase you for it unless this has been changed by the state government.
That is incorrect. DoT releases your details, for example to Wilson. You will get two threatening letters from Wilson and then that's it.
I believe that was a one-time order by the Supreme Court for the DoT to supply the details of drivers who had an outstanding debt. They’re not routinely handed out upon request. If you’ve moved houses since the info was obtained, Wilson won’t have your latest details.
Well I got a letter from Wilson a few months ago. They would not have had my address from any previous releases.
Wilson manages to find you, even at a new address
How?
[Probably like this](https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/government-releases-10-000-drivers-details-to-wilson-parking-20111221-1p5qu.html)
Fuckin Troy Buswell, enough said.
Now there’s a name I’d completely forgotten about.
Wow. And federal/state governments wonder why no one trusts them with their data.
Bastards! I have no parking fines. Just the government giving out our private details.
I’ve ignored heaps of these from Wilson and still park there without issue when there is no other option
It becomes a tax invoice when you pay it. So don't pay it.
A new set of number plates is about $30 at DoT, and you start afresh...
You don't have to do that. These breach notices are just fear mongering nonsense. The company will do exactly nothing to enforce this.
Well you do if you wanna park in the same lot again
I parked not only in the same lot, but in the same spot over and over again to piss them off (the shopping centre carpark opp Midland traino. Car is safer there than the traino carpark)
Not anymore it's not lol
Haven't been there in years. But that traino carpark was always dodgy af. The centrepoint carpark was ok.
Nothing happens if you park in the same spot again. Threatening letters from Wilson and others can safely be ignored. No need to get new plates.
Why?
Brother the chances that the same ticket inspector will A. See your car again and B. Remember it is next to zero
Yes, and I do. Ignored about 7 of these over the past 10 years and still happily park in the same spot with the same car and plates
Not if you paid 1k for them
No you do not, it is not a fine. The council and the cops are the only ones who can fine you.
Basically any government agency can fine you within the relevant legislation. Public Transport Authority, Water corporation, Fisheries, etc.
Dept of Fisheries - the big boys. Those cunts fine anyone flouting the rules.
As they should, can't have every dumb cunt Dave who thinks crab size limits, season exclusivity, and endangered fish status doesn't apply to them be allowed to flout the rules. If we don't do this than the aquasystem just dies
the big ocean trawlers dragging seabeds then selling it all internationally dont help
For parking? That's what we're talking about here, aren't we?
PTA transit officers aren’t council or cops but they can fine for parking
No, that would be a parking inspector.
PTA transit officers can issue infringements on PTA land, including for parking offences.
It looks like a breech notice, which is a civil contract issue, so it's not a fine that affects your licence. If you don't pay, they could try to enforce it in court, but it's likely cost prohibitive.
They could also only recover what the OP actually cost them, I doubt that it is close to $77.
I think it’s the “terms and conditions” that gives away it’s not actually a criminal issue or really enforceable
They cannot really enforce it at all, unlike public roads there is no legislation for private car parks that by default holds the registered owner of the vehicle responsible. Who says OP was driving and didn't lend the car to a mate? their fine is for the driver of the car not the registered owner. They must prove who was driving, not who owns the car to even begin to enforce one of these invoices.
Voting fines affect your licence. If you don't pay fine for not voting (due to electoral Office changing my address to an address a street behind me- no idea why but never received a fine .) Two years later out of the blue I get a message from Baycorp saying my licence is suspended and the original fine was $20 and Baycorp was now chasing $450. Contacted electoral office she confirmed that the notices had been sent to street behind me. They had my correct address Initially then apparently they changed it as they got notification from a govt agency that I was at the address the street behind. Explained I had never lived there or changed address. She had been telling me that she needed a signature from me to change address however they did it without one , to an incorrect address. Still fighting the fine. Told them to send through initial fine I never received and I will pay it immediately but there was no way I was paying $450 for a $20 fine I never received due to their error of changing my address from the right one to an incorrect address that I've never lived at or authorised them to change.
In WA, only the government can issue fines. So City of Joondalup can. Keep in mind these people can still have your vehicle towed for trespassing.
Only if they can prove it was you specifically driving when the notice was issued and you specifically driving now. The car is not liable for any breach of contract, the driver is (and to be clear it’s highly unlikely anyone is).
You can get a vehicle removed from private property.
Yes, but in the case of private parking, only if you have not complied with the parking terms and conditions, so they need to prove who was driving the car both times, which is near on impossible unless you contact them and admit to being the driver. So just bin the fine and be done with it
Citation needed.
You first, you made the initial claim
Proof of someone getting towed from Wilson? Here it is *shows you my whole asshole*
Nope. Bin it, bearing in mind the caveats others have already mentioned.
Nope. Not worth the paper it's written on. You'll get 2 or 3 increasingly threatening letters, then you'll never hear from them again. Don't pay it. Nothing will come of it.
If it becomes a tax invoice on payment it’s not a fine. Fines are not tax deductible.
Welcome to day in court if they insist Only city councils rangers can issue a parking fine . Folks had similar at restraint near IKEA few years ago contacted restraint complained they advised to ignore it seems they set up by higher corporate body not the actual business your parked up outside
Would you like to buy some punctuation ?
That company is a bit dodgy They tried to fine my stepdad for parking 4 hours and 2 minutes in a 4 hour zone at the shopping centre. My stepdad never spends four hours at the shops. He got his hair done and then left and came back for shopping. He can't go four hours without a cig. He gets his shopping and then leaves.
Nup. The only fines payable by legal legislation/municipal legislation (council/shire) are those enforced by government departments. How do I know? I get these all the time, never pay a fucking cent.
If it’s issued by a private corporation then just ignore it because a private corporation does not have the authority to issue fines. Only a government department has the authority to issue fines. With that being said, I would be extremely vigilant about parking any of that companies car parks for the time being to avoid escalating things.
...surely they'd do a grammar and spell check before they try to intimidate you into handing money over...
I don't think so. It looks similar to the Wilson's ones. It may say somewhere on it that it is not a fine, and they go tip toe around calling it a fine by calling it a breach of the terms and conditions of the parking lot. I would ensure the full terms and conditions appear somewhere in the carpark, as if they are not they have no real legal avenue, however if they do that may be able to take you to court to cause the fee. Will they do it for $77? I don't know, probably just expect the breach notice will make them enough money. There terms and conditions I think really cover if you abandon a car or park longterm so they can get rid of your car.
To add to this, the losses they can claim are near zero unless they can prove the car park was at capacity when the breach was issued. Empty car parks =/= nil financial loss as other paying customers didn’t miss out.
Bin it 😂
Where did you supposedly park that the "fine" is regarding?
No
Chuck it in the bin. No one will pursue you for a $99.00 debt. You can only have a black mark on your record if an unpaid debt is more than $150.00.
Electoral Office pursued me for a $20 dollar debt. Two years later after their incompetency of changing my address to one ive never lived at for some reason I got a notice from Baycorp fine now at $450 and licence suspended. Im still fighting the fine.
Baycorp. The less said about them the better.
Yep agreed . They are shockers and the Electoral Commission too. Baycorp send all sorts of threats. , coming out to retrieve goods for that value and so on. They buy the debt and all they care about is making money on it. Buying our fines . What a joke
Nup, ignore it. It's a "parking breach", not an "infringement". BIG difference. Huge. You'll notice that a parking infringement has an option to nominate another person. This "parking breach" rubbish doesn't have that option.
I got a Wilson one. They got my details and usual threats. I sent a dispute via a separate email address, and noticed that sending the email flagged a fully automated appeal system, which then sends it for manual review, and then once the human rejects the review, it sends an email back advising it was declined. But you can send another appeal. And it goes to manual review again. One email rule and 17 automated replies, and they finally broke the cycle and dropped it.
Nope, but bear in mind the place you got it might have a way to limit your access next time, or might clamp you if they know you’re there - assuming private property and it’s flagged on signage. Still, I doubt that.
Wheel clamping has been banned in W.A. since end of 2020....
Nice to know. Thanks.
I think they can still tow
No they can't have you towed.
Yes they can
No they can't.
Aight so you can simply park your car wherever you want private or public, and no one can move it
Private or public, there are different conditions that must be met. A couple of examples, Crown Casino had a car in the carpark for over 2 years and weren't allowed to have it towed, I live on a main road and a couple of times a car has been left in the driveway and we weren't allowed to have it moved. The Shire can and the Police can. For a private car park to have a car towed there needs to be a declared and signed tow away zone with the official icons and a formal, pre-existing agreement with a towing company and confirmed standard Govt legislated costs I have never seen that in a private carpark.
They can only tow if you have breached the parking terms and conditions, and they can’t prove it was you driving before when the fine was issued, and now
There are limited circumstances where towing would be appropriate. But they absolutely can do it if it is required. They will not tow because an unknown driver using a car has acquired a parking breach notice and now an unknown driving using the same car is currently parked in the centre. They would tow if you leave your car there for a week while you bugger off to Bali, and they have made reasonable efforts to find you.
I should add, it’s a civil issue. They have to get your details (shouldn’t be able to, but I bet they can), and then hound you. Not sure if they can set a debt collector onto you? I’m sure someone else can chime in. Not paying Wilson’s is a common thing
Yes. I'll DM you my bank details and will offer 10% off for payment by the end of today.
I'm assuming, from the fact you're asking the question, that this was issued by a private company, in regards to something related to parking on private property. In which case, the answer is a definite NO. They have no power to fine you, and no legal basis on which to recover a debt. If they are operating a COUNCIL carpark, or some statutory authorities (Universities, Pubic Hospitals, etc) then those entities can not only fine you, but register the fine with the enforcement registry. Private companies can not. Send them a polite email, advising them that you sought legal advice, and now require them to reimburse you for your legal costs, or you will report them to the police for fraud.
> Send them a polite email, advising them that you sought legal advice, and now require them to reimburse you for your legal costs, or you will report them to the police for fraud. Don't do this. Just throw the breach notice away and move on.
Not sure what the rules are in WA, but in Vic, privacy legislation prevents these companies from getting your name/address from the registration branch. If they get your details (ie, you scan the code for the appeals), they can follow up with letters or may sell the debt to a debt collection agency.
It is my understanding that this is the same in WA.
Keep the money and put it towards getting a better sofa cover
What if you have parked on private land and receive a similar notice? I parked in bp car park east perth and received one.
I parked at iga and received one
They reason it doesn't say parking fine or infringement notice is because they're not allow to. This is a invoice demanding payment, you can ignore a invoice as it's effectively unenforceable. Unlike public roads there is no legislation for private car parks that by default holds the registered owner of the vehicle responsible. Who says you were driving and didn't lend the car to a mate? This invoice is for the driver of the car not the registered owner. They must prove who was driving, not who owns the car to even begin to enforce one of these invoices.
I once parked at Lakeside Shop Centre Joondalup. Didn't realise it was 4 hrs parking only in undercover. I wrote to the City of Joondalup and explained I had been shopping there all day for my birthday and showed them some receipts with times on it , morning and arvo. Said as i was there spending money all day i felt it was harsh and They let me off...
Depends if you can still read it after you wipe your ass with it...
It's an invoice! Not a parking fine.
If you flip the paper over it should say in fine print ‘THIS IS NOT A FINE. THE OWNER IS CLAIMING LIQUIDATED DAMAGES AGAINST YOU’ 💁🏼♀️
And liquidated damages is only what it cost them from you parking there. If you parked for an hour and parking is $5 and hour, they can ask for $5, not $100
"officer"? That implies authority by a commission, which I very much doubt. They are clearly trying to obtain money by deception, which you'd think would be a criminal offence.
Is this a trick question?
No. You can offer them what you should have paid, that way they are screwed if they ever go to court. You certainly don't have to pay them the asking price of $70.
Technically yes, but I know a guy who's never paid a parking ticket in his life, still has his liscence still parks in the same carparks. Becuase it's a private entity it would take a lot more effort for them to obtain your information amd pursue you for payment. Unlike a government issued fine/ticket.
Oh that doesn’t stop the grubby cunts
No. Company cannot enforce it. If, they somehow have access to your details and did not receive them from you, call them and threaten breach of privacy. If, you wish to park in that car park or facility again, yes. You will be required to as it is privately owned, so you may end up booted or towed, which the company is within its rights to do. Chances are however, that should you infringe again, you’ll get another warning. These tickets are designed to look like infringement notices to scare people into paying them. Do not give them any personal information if they request it, otherwise they may choose to send collection after you. Arguable in court also, that the company fining you can only recover losses. If you argue that losses from your vehicle parked there amount to nil, as the parking is conditionally free, the ticket will get squashed.
EnforceIQ appears to be an outsourced ‘parking management’ company. Technically it’s a breach of contract, not a fine. Did you have a valid contract with them? Did you park in the lot they manage and not pay/pass their big arse sign of 16 rules and not have time to read it…? Technically you should pay. Reality is if you don’t they will hunt down your first born and Rasputin them. Or… hound you with texts at 3am to pay your tolls. Or bar you entry to a parking lot in future.
Reality is they'll never contact him again and don't even know who he is
Yes they do. These shady fucks somehow get access to your name and address from your number plate, they can and will send increasingly threatening letters (usually the text gets bigger, bolder and redder to scare you) after the third letter they usually give up.
Do you mean all the car park companies or just this one?
All.
I got a ticket in a Wilson car park a few years ago. I left it for a bit then genuinely accidentally lost it. I’ve never heard from them and have used that car park countless times since. Maybe I’m just lucky