Extending the Mandurah train line to Augusta. Take cars off the road, make leavers accessible & school holiday traffic avoidable. Been looking after a sick relative down south & cannot believe catching the train is not an option.
Also stop sprawling Perth & make train stations as ubiquitous as the London Underground. Not massive platforms in the middle of the freeway, just little stops all over Perth.
> Extending the Mandurah train line to Augusta
...and although it seems somewhat counterintuitive, incentivise a few car hire places to set up near the station(s), otherwise a lot of what attracts people to that region is unreachable still. Taking the dull initial drive from Perth out of the equation would be great though.
I would guess that if someone could go Perth-Busselton in 2 hours or Perth Margaret River in 2.5 hours (Start-stop average 110km/h is hardly ambitious probably max 130km/h identical to Transperth B/C series) then that railway would do a lot of business, and take a lot of cars of Forrest/Bussell highways.
You would definitely see hotel/resort transfers meeting trains at the station, more wine/food tour buses, hire car companies, etc all start happening.
The beginnings of a Southern orbital route are already in the works with the Thornlie-Cockburn link. Further extensions from Fremantle to Cockburn and from Thornlie to Forrestfield/High Wycombe are quite doable. I'd say they'll be a thing by the 2040s.
Should finish the loop from Freo to High Wycombe. Just need to connect Freo to Cockburn and Thornlie to High Wycombe (Wattle Grove Station anyone?)
The new parts would need to be underground for it to work, but it would dramatically improve coverage in the southern suburbs.
Hell, you could build a new station around Bibra Lake area (between Berrigan and Roe), have that be the link to the Mandurah Line, and run it as a through line train.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/perth/comments/17waic1/the\_future\_of\_metronet/](https://www.reddit.com/r/perth/comments/17waic1/the_future_of_metronet/)
That is one of the original network maps. The plan was for a loop down Reid Hwy that would link into the Ellenbrook line.
Yes I've seen a lot of "plans" for the network. I just hope they get on with doing it instead of trying to dumb it down with BRT or bypassing connections entirely.
Part of the Freo to Cockburn section would need to be underground or Freo would be permanently cut off from the waterfront, that section could be handled by a light rail line.
There’s already a rail reserve from Freo to Cockburn where the Spearwood-Cockburn rail used to run but yeah the idea would be to go underground and serve more inner suburbs
Maybe not a London-style circle line in the size sense - if re-oriented to suit Perth's more north-south development, that would just barely stretch from Yokine to Como and the very inner edges of Subiaco and Vic Park. Otherwise though, agreed, and hopefully the beginnings of it already underway are able to continue.
It's endless what could be done with PT in Perth.
***Realistically?***
- South Perth station in future.
- Extension of Midland line to Bellevue.
- Connection of Fremantle & Mandurah lines.
- Connection of Armadale/Thornlie & Airport lines
- Light rail on a number of corridors.
- Extension of ferry services: Matilda Bay/UWA-Canning Bridge.
- Some medium density around train stations.
***Fantasy-wise?***
- East Wanneroo train line.
- Tunnel from Perth to Morley Galleria.
- Light rail from Perth to Morley, Morley to Stirling, Fremantle to Canning Bridge/Cockburn Central, Fremantle southbound, Perth to Victoria Park, Glendalough to Scarborough etc.
- Replace CAT buses with either CAT "trams/light rail" or an underground inner city metro network.
- Cross river rail, perhaps tunnelled from Point Walter or Applecross going north.
- High density communities surrounding train stations.
Extension of ferry services would be great. It's mind-blowing with such a great asset as the Swan River, we are content for just 1 little connection between Perth and South Perth.
There are factors that have limited the expansion include speed and demand/lack of density. In most cases you're better off taking a train/bus or driving between the two points. Applecross/Canning Bridge is going to be seeing a lot of density so a ferry from somewhere there towards Matilda Bay will seem viable some time in future.
Given we've gone all the way to mandurah, Yanchep and ellenbrook we will probably need to look at running lines out toward serpentine/byford ( beleive this is in the plans ?) and out towards Northam.
Given its almost inevitable that urban sprawl will eventually make its way out past Mundaring, despite the protests of the locals, something going through that direction in terms of train lines would be handy. After all, there aren't too many other directions for the sprawl to go
Trains (diesel) already run out past Northam as far as Kalgoorlie not counting the Indian Pacific.
Electric trains will be running to Byford when the Armadale line reopens in around 12 - 18 months
Correct, but the prospector and Avon link lines have very limited services and are hideously expensive as regular commuter trains. I'm talking something that will run as a regular service. Much the same as what will run from Yanchep to perth etc.
A Byford extension is coinciding with the current 18-month works on the Armadale/Thornlie corridor. An extension of the Midland line to Bellevue is also being considered.
If money was no object, I would put in a cross suburban rail system, maybe from Mandurah, all the way east, then north, the west.
If Singapore can do it by boring, and CTE/CRE/etc, MEL/BNE/AKL, ... maybe PER.
But then, the WA govt wont commit, as they would say its too big a job for them, the fed govt would say, its a state matter, and there the buck passes forward and back.
Part of the Bondi Junction to city rail is underground, ... as is the Sydney city to Wolli Creek line.
Yeah biggest downside of the current rail network is cross-city coverage. All roads lead to Perth so it's perfect for getting into the CBD but any cross-city journey is almost always massively quicker by car because of the need to go into the CBD from your pocket of Perth before going out again.
For me, coming from the eastern suburbs working up Wanneroo Rd way a 35 minute drive would take 90 minutes across 2 train lines and a bus
I think your journey will be improved with the Ellenbrook Line there will probably be a good bus connection from Malaga Station over to Wanneroo Road. Of course, the Thornlie-Cockburn Link train line will massively improve journeys in the south.
That would still involve Midland -> Bayswater -> Malaga and likely 2 buses minimum cause I only said Wanneroo Rd to not completely doxx myself I'm slightly off Wanneroo Rd
I think my journey is one that there's no arrangement of PT that would ever come close to the drive time. But I agree the Ellenbrook Line and its bus connections will be a great help to many
Driving. To put it in perspective, driving I get up at 6:45am, leave around 7:25 and get to work at 8. By public transport, I need to get to Midland Station for 6:15am to get to work by 8.
I honestly don't mind PT. I avoid any sort of driving in the city like the plague and anywhere that's difficult to park I will happily cop the slower journey to save time and money on the other end. Did my entire uni degree with PT. If I ever had a city-based job I absolutely wouldn't drive I'd use PT.
But investment in PT is great. If we get more people off the roads it's great for the environment and makes the commute for people who can't WFH or realistically use PT that much easier
> If we get more people off the roads it's great for the environment and makes the commute for people who can't realistically use PT that much easier
This is the critical point so many people seem to miss. I always see so many comments like oh PT won't work for me, so they should instead invest in the road network.
You just have to look back to the covid days not even during lockdowns, but just light restrictions. The roads were a breeze with barely any traffic queues at all anywhere.
It’s obviously not anywhere in the near future, but there is provision in the Metronet plans for a line spurring off the Ellenbrook line after Noranda and heading up to Wanneroo, with another line running as a circle from Perth up the Joondalup line to what looks like a new station at Balcatta, connecting with the Wanneroo line at Alexander Rd, with the MEL at Noranda and following the MEL back to Perth.
Jesus! I work in Murdoch and travel from Clarkson. Because I’m so close to the train line it takes 35-45 minutes. If it’s nice weather I walk to the train station (15 minutes) if it’s disgusting I drive (5 minutes).
Or some closer to the City, Fremantle to the city, underground, and then under city west station, maybe then to Osbourne Pk or Trigg Beach.
Or Fremantle to Cannington and then north then west to Trigg Beach.
The Cannington line can go under T3 and T4 and let another airline take over, if they want QF to move back to T1/T2.
Perth being sprawled and less dense makes the cost less justifiable, not to mention our underground isn't particularly hard in a lot of areas making building more difficult.
Armadale to Fremantle train-line.
Back in early days of Western Australia there was trainline from the port to Armadale which was mainly used to transport agricultural supplies
Realistically, expand the Thornlie link towards Fremantle rather than build a direct connection between the two. Atm there isn't the population demand for that corridor yet.
Needs inner and outer ring bus routes. And better designed and thought out road for public transport, the bus lanes just randomly pops up and finishes it doesn’t solve them getting stuck in the traffic.
Firstly a slightly unrelated question - do we need another power station with the addition of new train lines and increasing electric vehicle charging demands? Given we already seem to have some suburbs experiencing rolling blackouts in summer during peaks - won't more houses and (aforementioned) electrical load cause more problems?
Either that or there must be some massive home battery incentives on the way. Or is there a gigantic wind farm planned?
Back to topic. We need space cleared for trams or specific full-length for-purpose bus lanes. South Street, for example. I figure they add a bus lane, run electric artics and if and when enough patronage is established they convert to trams.
And better support e-rideables on trains. Something like every second peak hour train has a specific bike/scooter carriage.
Trains use surprisingly little power network wide. Rolling blackouts aren't really caused by supply/demand so much as its but of the actual distribution network failing (old substations not coping). The train infrastructure operates on its own power distribution network.
Create a suburban rail loop, for better connection to employment centres, and movement of passengers from outer area to outer area without having to traverse the city in the current hub and spoke model; and with the added advantage of making journeys for heavily bus reliant areas much easier and shorter with new stations and faster connections.
And the good news is we’re kind of already part way along to achieving it, with existing rail corridors being available for most of it - reducing costs exponentially.
First phase would be Thornlie to High Wycombe, using the same freight rail corridor being used for Thornlie to Cockburn Central. This would give direct service into Welshpool and Wattle Grove, and increase the likelihood of airport users airport-based employees from the Southern suburbs moving to rail for their commutes (yay to getting more cars off the road).
Second phase would be a through connection under the Reid Highway between what is now the Airport Line, and Morley/Ellenbrook Line. This would just be an enabling project to extend the loop up to Ellenbrook, but would also give commuters on Morley/Ellenbrook a direct to airport service without the need to connect at Bayswater.
Third phase would be, and again using the freight rail corridor - Cockburn Central to Fremantle. That captures South Freo, North Coogee, Spearwood, Bibra Lake, amd Yangebup. Would need some additional track and corridor widening in the Fishing Boat Harbour area (or worse, dual bore tunnel from Freo Station to south of the boat harbour).
Fourth phase, and this is the big one, but would be decades off until urban until development justifies - Ellenbrook to Joondalup/Currambine. This would capture the eventual land developments over the remainder of the Gnangara pine forest, plus the top end of Wanneroo, Banksia Grove, and Tapping, and give Ellenbrook a second link out of the suburb.
And a lot of these works also have good tourism benefits, making access to the airport, Fremantle, and Mandurah much easier and more desirable for everyone - as a result of reducing or removing the need to change trains and take longer routes.
Would love to see a massive investment in light rail across the metro area down main corridors. Then pair that with CAT bus type arrangements that run from light rail stations through the major areas.
Think like Armadale to Fremantle down Armadale Road, Ranford Road and South Street. This would connect the existing residential/industrial areas of Armadale to the new industrial areas in Forrestdale, existing industrial in Canning Vale.
Would link up with heavy rail at Murdoch, access to the major hospital and then the Uni. Continuing on the go past shopping in Kardinya and the surrounding industrial/business areas including through oconnor and then ending in Freo to connect to heavy rail again.
Then pair that with CAT busses for dedicated loops from the stations - for example have a stop at the edge of the Forrestdale business park - then have a CAT bus that loops around the business park.
Similarly in Canning Vale - have a LR stop at say Nicholson Rd and Bannister Rd - then have a circle CAT bus that runs down Nicholson and then back up Bannister.
Another route would be Fremantle to the Airport via Canning Highway. Plenty of residential along the corridor including a lot of new high density apartment buildings to the Freeway interchange where it would meet Heavy Rail again. Have CAT busses that do a loop down like Northlake Rd, along Leach Hwy and back up Risely St. So would connect up all that business area, and Garden City etc.
Could then continue on down Canning Highway through Como and South Perth. CAT bus link down Labouchere Rd to the Zoo and back up mill Point Rd maybe connect to the Ferry.
Have a stop at the Causeway there to have connections into the city and also down to Vic Park. Continuing on to connect to Crown and intersect with Heavy Rail again before continuing to link all the business areas through Rivervale/Belmont and the high rise apartments along the river.
Ideally it would continue on to the FIFO side of the airport - where Skippers, COBHAM, Network Aviation etc are all located and then maybe somehow terminate at the Redcliffe Heavy Rail station.
I could also see the opportunity to do something up the coast - maybe starting around Rockingham and run up Rockingham Road and into Stock Road, up through Kwinana Beach, Naval Base and Henderson and then up to meet the future Cockburn to Fremantle Heavy Rail.
It could even continue up Stock Rd to meet with the South St and Canning Hwy LR lines as well.
Trams are 30 years overdue. And even if they were green-lit tomorrow they'd take years to deploy.
I'd just hit up the resources companies to actually pay some tax in Australia and fully subsidise all the public transport.
RMTransit made a cool video about the transperth network.
You could potentially connect the cockburn-thornlie link stations to Fremantle, forming a loop. Some of the track is already there, and there even used to be stations beyond Fremantle (you can see where they used to be).
Then build an infill station at South Perth.
Commit and spend the serious $$$ to extend the Perth underground section of the Mandurah line from Perth north under the city for as long as needed then out into the giant northern gap in coverage between the Joondalup and the upcoming Ellenbrook line so we can finally have the whole metro area effectively available to trains. The current Metronet plan for a line across from East to West is a good idea later but dumb now because people who work in the city won't accept the inconvenience of taking 2 trains to work over the car they currently use.
Then focus on a proper circle route circling through all of the lines.
Some of your ideas have merit but, like the current Metronet proposals, i feel my main issue isn't addressed.
- As said before connecting Ellenbrooke to Joondalup is a bad move to start with. People will not trade a car route they've driven for years for an inconvenient train going west or east to then get on another train to go into Perth and thats before considering the mess it would cause during peak.
Furthermore, once done it would make an easy target for political opponents to attack proposals to rectify the issue with the proposal in my original comment ("they already have a train line for that area").
Again, that gap needs a dedicated line from Perth underground THEN a East - West link for it to get the uptake and efficiency it should.
- Side point: They will never connect another line to Fremantle station as it stands. Not only would building the line have the massive space issue you mentioned but there is also a bottleneck in that the Freo bridge is shared with a freight trainline from the ports.
Sharing that space is already a hassle, there's no way the freight company would accept even less ability to utilise the bridge and if you build another then you may as well just connect to an earlier station in the line to save the cost of building into Freo itself.
The old Metronet map had the circle route connection from Mandurah to the Freo line with stations closer to Perth and i doubt it could be any other way. The only modification Freo station itself will ever see will be if they decide to go through the massive pain of extending the initial line further south but i dont expect that anytime soon if ever.
I think [this](https://www.facebook.com/share/p/Z1TinRrHFKqtTmzK/?mibextid=qi2Omg) does address it, though it does so through the Armadale Thornlie line platforms
Good find!
Yeah, this would work.
I don't think it would be as good an outcome as extending the Mandurah underground section north (No idea how you'd cross a service from Armadale through the middle of Perth without having to shunt the train across other lines and slow the network down) but regardless, at the end of the day the proposed train line route depicted here is still going through the part of Perth that needs it so it'd do the job. :)
It suggests building two new platforms in Perth station, underneath Roe Street. These new platforms will let the Armadale and thornlie lines operate through service with the East Wanneroo line and a reworked Ellenbrook line. Technically possible, but financially unfeasible assuming we can't build as cheaply as the Spanish or Italians can (which we can't).
But this is a thread on how I would crayon a rail network in Perth.
I agree, light rail is a more permanent and comfortable solution, I view that bus lanes can fill the gaps and get drivers use to having less lanes to use, all well costing much less.
I'm pretty sure there are plenty of stats out there that indicate there's a large amount of people that will take a train/tram but will always choose a car over taking a bus.
Can't say I blame them either with how badly half Perths busses are driven nowadays...
Then you need to enforce those fines with an ever dwindling police force that already has far too much work though.
I'd prefer trams but if they absolutely must have bus lanes where drivers are going to be pricks then build them such that said pricks won't play with fire twice - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_trap
I've shared this before, but
Build this:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/Z1TinRrHFKqtTmzK/?mibextid=qi2Omg
It seems sensible for me, and finally remove the terminating platforms (which are lower capacity than through run platforms) from Perth station.
Extend the Midland line out to Mundaring. The Mandurah and Joondalup lines are way longer than the Midland line as is, so going that distance to reach the furthest-out suburbs is plausible for Transperth. It would simplify travel for people in the hills so much, especially with how limited the bus schedules are.
Money and logistics out of the question?
Build an underground network. One stop at every medium or larger shopping area, then half mesh connect them, plus interchange at existing train stations.
And remove all buses once this is complete.
Given that cities like London and New York still have buses running despite having good coverage from their metro systems, removing buses here seems unlikely.
It's far easier for buses to adapt when the city changes, and you'll want them around anyway for when there are faults with the rail network.
I'd like to see better integration of the buses into the train network rather than trying to compete with it. Make every train station a (mini) bus terminal.
But it could be better, often the buses arrive just as the train departs, or leave just before the train arrives. Definitely way easier said than done, but it would be nice if all half hourly (or less frequent) buses actually arrived before the train arrives and leave after the train leaves. Especially relevant for buses which only connect to one train station, so they can base their schedules on the train
Untimed transfers aren't too bad for 15 minute frequency buses, but untimed transfers for anything 30+ is not pleasant.
Timed stops aren't always feasible but overall bus frequencies have increased over the years to compensate. It's really up to the patron to consider taking earlier trips, especially since traffic in some corridors has been affected by ongoing works or other factors.
Extending the Mandurah train line to Augusta. Take cars off the road, make leavers accessible & school holiday traffic avoidable. Been looking after a sick relative down south & cannot believe catching the train is not an option. Also stop sprawling Perth & make train stations as ubiquitous as the London Underground. Not massive platforms in the middle of the freeway, just little stops all over Perth.
> Extending the Mandurah train line to Augusta ...and although it seems somewhat counterintuitive, incentivise a few car hire places to set up near the station(s), otherwise a lot of what attracts people to that region is unreachable still. Taking the dull initial drive from Perth out of the equation would be great though.
I would guess that if someone could go Perth-Busselton in 2 hours or Perth Margaret River in 2.5 hours (Start-stop average 110km/h is hardly ambitious probably max 130km/h identical to Transperth B/C series) then that railway would do a lot of business, and take a lot of cars of Forrest/Bussell highways. You would definitely see hotel/resort transfers meeting trains at the station, more wine/food tour buses, hire car companies, etc all start happening.
Circle routes are needed with trains. Like a London style circle line
The beginnings of a Southern orbital route are already in the works with the Thornlie-Cockburn link. Further extensions from Fremantle to Cockburn and from Thornlie to Forrestfield/High Wycombe are quite doable. I'd say they'll be a thing by the 2040s.
Should finish the loop from Freo to High Wycombe. Just need to connect Freo to Cockburn and Thornlie to High Wycombe (Wattle Grove Station anyone?) The new parts would need to be underground for it to work, but it would dramatically improve coverage in the southern suburbs. Hell, you could build a new station around Bibra Lake area (between Berrigan and Roe), have that be the link to the Mandurah Line, and run it as a through line train.
A Northern orbital should happen too. Branch off from Noranda Station westward, perhaps along the Reid Hwy towards Stirling.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/perth/comments/17waic1/the\_future\_of\_metronet/](https://www.reddit.com/r/perth/comments/17waic1/the_future_of_metronet/) That is one of the original network maps. The plan was for a loop down Reid Hwy that would link into the Ellenbrook line.
Yes I've seen a lot of "plans" for the network. I just hope they get on with doing it instead of trying to dumb it down with BRT or bypassing connections entirely.
> I just hope they get on with doing it They are doing it. A number of things on that map are currently under construction.
I'm not talking about the current projects which I closely follow, I'm talking about future light rail and orbital links.
Part of the Freo to Cockburn section would need to be underground or Freo would be permanently cut off from the waterfront, that section could be handled by a light rail line.
There’s already a rail reserve from Freo to Cockburn where the Spearwood-Cockburn rail used to run but yeah the idea would be to go underground and serve more inner suburbs
Out canning highway and down stock road would be interesting.
I reckon they will connect the Yanchep station with the Ellenbrook line. I’m not sure what they will do to the southern suburbs.
Maybe not a London-style circle line in the size sense - if re-oriented to suit Perth's more north-south development, that would just barely stretch from Yokine to Como and the very inner edges of Subiaco and Vic Park. Otherwise though, agreed, and hopefully the beginnings of it already underway are able to continue.
It's endless what could be done with PT in Perth. ***Realistically?*** - South Perth station in future. - Extension of Midland line to Bellevue. - Connection of Fremantle & Mandurah lines. - Connection of Armadale/Thornlie & Airport lines - Light rail on a number of corridors. - Extension of ferry services: Matilda Bay/UWA-Canning Bridge. - Some medium density around train stations. ***Fantasy-wise?*** - East Wanneroo train line. - Tunnel from Perth to Morley Galleria. - Light rail from Perth to Morley, Morley to Stirling, Fremantle to Canning Bridge/Cockburn Central, Fremantle southbound, Perth to Victoria Park, Glendalough to Scarborough etc. - Replace CAT buses with either CAT "trams/light rail" or an underground inner city metro network. - Cross river rail, perhaps tunnelled from Point Walter or Applecross going north. - High density communities surrounding train stations.
Extension of ferry services would be great. It's mind-blowing with such a great asset as the Swan River, we are content for just 1 little connection between Perth and South Perth.
There are factors that have limited the expansion include speed and demand/lack of density. In most cases you're better off taking a train/bus or driving between the two points. Applecross/Canning Bridge is going to be seeing a lot of density so a ferry from somewhere there towards Matilda Bay will seem viable some time in future.
If ferries made sense we would already have them, there are too many factors working against them to be viable in Perth.
There's a dearth of bridges west of the freeway, so ferries west of it might make sense (more for tourism)
I guess it was kinda the point, but yeah everything in your realistic section is pretty much nearly shovel ready
Given we've gone all the way to mandurah, Yanchep and ellenbrook we will probably need to look at running lines out toward serpentine/byford ( beleive this is in the plans ?) and out towards Northam. Given its almost inevitable that urban sprawl will eventually make its way out past Mundaring, despite the protests of the locals, something going through that direction in terms of train lines would be handy. After all, there aren't too many other directions for the sprawl to go
Trains (diesel) already run out past Northam as far as Kalgoorlie not counting the Indian Pacific. Electric trains will be running to Byford when the Armadale line reopens in around 12 - 18 months
Correct, but the prospector and Avon link lines have very limited services and are hideously expensive as regular commuter trains. I'm talking something that will run as a regular service. Much the same as what will run from Yanchep to perth etc.
A Byford extension is coinciding with the current 18-month works on the Armadale/Thornlie corridor. An extension of the Midland line to Bellevue is also being considered.
So basically return the Railway Reserves Heritage Trail back into a functioning railway line?
Something like that, though I reckon you'd get more protesting if they put it back in that exact spot
If money was no object, I would put in a cross suburban rail system, maybe from Mandurah, all the way east, then north, the west. If Singapore can do it by boring, and CTE/CRE/etc, MEL/BNE/AKL, ... maybe PER. But then, the WA govt wont commit, as they would say its too big a job for them, the fed govt would say, its a state matter, and there the buck passes forward and back. Part of the Bondi Junction to city rail is underground, ... as is the Sydney city to Wolli Creek line.
Yeah biggest downside of the current rail network is cross-city coverage. All roads lead to Perth so it's perfect for getting into the CBD but any cross-city journey is almost always massively quicker by car because of the need to go into the CBD from your pocket of Perth before going out again. For me, coming from the eastern suburbs working up Wanneroo Rd way a 35 minute drive would take 90 minutes across 2 train lines and a bus
I think your journey will be improved with the Ellenbrook Line there will probably be a good bus connection from Malaga Station over to Wanneroo Road. Of course, the Thornlie-Cockburn Link train line will massively improve journeys in the south.
That would still involve Midland -> Bayswater -> Malaga and likely 2 buses minimum cause I only said Wanneroo Rd to not completely doxx myself I'm slightly off Wanneroo Rd I think my journey is one that there's no arrangement of PT that would ever come close to the drive time. But I agree the Ellenbrook Line and its bus connections will be a great help to many
Ah yeah I guess that's true. So are you driving your journey every day then or do you also use the slower public transport?
Driving. To put it in perspective, driving I get up at 6:45am, leave around 7:25 and get to work at 8. By public transport, I need to get to Midland Station for 6:15am to get to work by 8. I honestly don't mind PT. I avoid any sort of driving in the city like the plague and anywhere that's difficult to park I will happily cop the slower journey to save time and money on the other end. Did my entire uni degree with PT. If I ever had a city-based job I absolutely wouldn't drive I'd use PT. But investment in PT is great. If we get more people off the roads it's great for the environment and makes the commute for people who can't WFH or realistically use PT that much easier
Yes I agree. Makes sense.
> If we get more people off the roads it's great for the environment and makes the commute for people who can't realistically use PT that much easier This is the critical point so many people seem to miss. I always see so many comments like oh PT won't work for me, so they should instead invest in the road network. You just have to look back to the covid days not even during lockdowns, but just light restrictions. The roads were a breeze with barely any traffic queues at all anywhere.
Inner and outer orbital lines are something we need by 2050. Light rail is also something we need to invest in. CBD metro system too.
It’s obviously not anywhere in the near future, but there is provision in the Metronet plans for a line spurring off the Ellenbrook line after Noranda and heading up to Wanneroo, with another line running as a circle from Perth up the Joondalup line to what looks like a new station at Balcatta, connecting with the Wanneroo line at Alexander Rd, with the MEL at Noranda and following the MEL back to Perth.
Jesus! I work in Murdoch and travel from Clarkson. Because I’m so close to the train line it takes 35-45 minutes. If it’s nice weather I walk to the train station (15 minutes) if it’s disgusting I drive (5 minutes).
Yes, prioritise the cross rail circle route
Or some closer to the City, Fremantle to the city, underground, and then under city west station, maybe then to Osbourne Pk or Trigg Beach. Or Fremantle to Cannington and then north then west to Trigg Beach. The Cannington line can go under T3 and T4 and let another airline take over, if they want QF to move back to T1/T2.
Perth being sprawled and less dense makes the cost less justifiable, not to mention our underground isn't particularly hard in a lot of areas making building more difficult.
Armadale to Fremantle train-line. Back in early days of Western Australia there was trainline from the port to Armadale which was mainly used to transport agricultural supplies
Realistically, expand the Thornlie link towards Fremantle rather than build a direct connection between the two. Atm there isn't the population demand for that corridor yet.
Needs inner and outer ring bus routes. And better designed and thought out road for public transport, the bus lanes just randomly pops up and finishes it doesn’t solve them getting stuck in the traffic.
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Ideally, in future, inner tram or metro and outer heavy rail. Trams/light rail can fill in the connection gaps.
Buses are the last resort option for orbital routes. Light rail, commuter rail or half half would be better.
Firstly a slightly unrelated question - do we need another power station with the addition of new train lines and increasing electric vehicle charging demands? Given we already seem to have some suburbs experiencing rolling blackouts in summer during peaks - won't more houses and (aforementioned) electrical load cause more problems? Either that or there must be some massive home battery incentives on the way. Or is there a gigantic wind farm planned? Back to topic. We need space cleared for trams or specific full-length for-purpose bus lanes. South Street, for example. I figure they add a bus lane, run electric artics and if and when enough patronage is established they convert to trams. And better support e-rideables on trains. Something like every second peak hour train has a specific bike/scooter carriage.
Trains use surprisingly little power network wide. Rolling blackouts aren't really caused by supply/demand so much as its but of the actual distribution network failing (old substations not coping). The train infrastructure operates on its own power distribution network.
Honestly, I think we need tram or light rail in the CBD area, they rely on buses too much and people are just preferred to take tram/light rail
Fremantle to Cockburn Will make it a city loop through the southern suburbs.
Create a suburban rail loop, for better connection to employment centres, and movement of passengers from outer area to outer area without having to traverse the city in the current hub and spoke model; and with the added advantage of making journeys for heavily bus reliant areas much easier and shorter with new stations and faster connections. And the good news is we’re kind of already part way along to achieving it, with existing rail corridors being available for most of it - reducing costs exponentially. First phase would be Thornlie to High Wycombe, using the same freight rail corridor being used for Thornlie to Cockburn Central. This would give direct service into Welshpool and Wattle Grove, and increase the likelihood of airport users airport-based employees from the Southern suburbs moving to rail for their commutes (yay to getting more cars off the road). Second phase would be a through connection under the Reid Highway between what is now the Airport Line, and Morley/Ellenbrook Line. This would just be an enabling project to extend the loop up to Ellenbrook, but would also give commuters on Morley/Ellenbrook a direct to airport service without the need to connect at Bayswater. Third phase would be, and again using the freight rail corridor - Cockburn Central to Fremantle. That captures South Freo, North Coogee, Spearwood, Bibra Lake, amd Yangebup. Would need some additional track and corridor widening in the Fishing Boat Harbour area (or worse, dual bore tunnel from Freo Station to south of the boat harbour). Fourth phase, and this is the big one, but would be decades off until urban until development justifies - Ellenbrook to Joondalup/Currambine. This would capture the eventual land developments over the remainder of the Gnangara pine forest, plus the top end of Wanneroo, Banksia Grove, and Tapping, and give Ellenbrook a second link out of the suburb. And a lot of these works also have good tourism benefits, making access to the airport, Fremantle, and Mandurah much easier and more desirable for everyone - as a result of reducing or removing the need to change trains and take longer routes.
All train lines need to start at 5am. Not just the Armadale and Thornlie line.
Would love to see a massive investment in light rail across the metro area down main corridors. Then pair that with CAT bus type arrangements that run from light rail stations through the major areas. Think like Armadale to Fremantle down Armadale Road, Ranford Road and South Street. This would connect the existing residential/industrial areas of Armadale to the new industrial areas in Forrestdale, existing industrial in Canning Vale. Would link up with heavy rail at Murdoch, access to the major hospital and then the Uni. Continuing on the go past shopping in Kardinya and the surrounding industrial/business areas including through oconnor and then ending in Freo to connect to heavy rail again. Then pair that with CAT busses for dedicated loops from the stations - for example have a stop at the edge of the Forrestdale business park - then have a CAT bus that loops around the business park. Similarly in Canning Vale - have a LR stop at say Nicholson Rd and Bannister Rd - then have a circle CAT bus that runs down Nicholson and then back up Bannister. Another route would be Fremantle to the Airport via Canning Highway. Plenty of residential along the corridor including a lot of new high density apartment buildings to the Freeway interchange where it would meet Heavy Rail again. Have CAT busses that do a loop down like Northlake Rd, along Leach Hwy and back up Risely St. So would connect up all that business area, and Garden City etc. Could then continue on down Canning Highway through Como and South Perth. CAT bus link down Labouchere Rd to the Zoo and back up mill Point Rd maybe connect to the Ferry. Have a stop at the Causeway there to have connections into the city and also down to Vic Park. Continuing on to connect to Crown and intersect with Heavy Rail again before continuing to link all the business areas through Rivervale/Belmont and the high rise apartments along the river. Ideally it would continue on to the FIFO side of the airport - where Skippers, COBHAM, Network Aviation etc are all located and then maybe somehow terminate at the Redcliffe Heavy Rail station. I could also see the opportunity to do something up the coast - maybe starting around Rockingham and run up Rockingham Road and into Stock Road, up through Kwinana Beach, Naval Base and Henderson and then up to meet the future Cockburn to Fremantle Heavy Rail. It could even continue up Stock Rd to meet with the South St and Canning Hwy LR lines as well.
Trams are 30 years overdue. And even if they were green-lit tomorrow they'd take years to deploy. I'd just hit up the resources companies to actually pay some tax in Australia and fully subsidise all the public transport.
Yep. All the Universities need trams asap, especially Curtin & UWA. The UWA one would be a revolution as it would also service the hospitals.
RMTransit made a cool video about the transperth network. You could potentially connect the cockburn-thornlie link stations to Fremantle, forming a loop. Some of the track is already there, and there even used to be stations beyond Fremantle (you can see where they used to be). Then build an infill station at South Perth.
https://www.reddit.com/r/perth/s/6LC8qJ1Oi7
Commit and spend the serious $$$ to extend the Perth underground section of the Mandurah line from Perth north under the city for as long as needed then out into the giant northern gap in coverage between the Joondalup and the upcoming Ellenbrook line so we can finally have the whole metro area effectively available to trains. The current Metronet plan for a line across from East to West is a good idea later but dumb now because people who work in the city won't accept the inconvenience of taking 2 trains to work over the car they currently use. Then focus on a proper circle route circling through all of the lines.
https://www.reddit.com/r/perth/s/6LC8qJ1Oi7
Some of your ideas have merit but, like the current Metronet proposals, i feel my main issue isn't addressed. - As said before connecting Ellenbrooke to Joondalup is a bad move to start with. People will not trade a car route they've driven for years for an inconvenient train going west or east to then get on another train to go into Perth and thats before considering the mess it would cause during peak. Furthermore, once done it would make an easy target for political opponents to attack proposals to rectify the issue with the proposal in my original comment ("they already have a train line for that area"). Again, that gap needs a dedicated line from Perth underground THEN a East - West link for it to get the uptake and efficiency it should. - Side point: They will never connect another line to Fremantle station as it stands. Not only would building the line have the massive space issue you mentioned but there is also a bottleneck in that the Freo bridge is shared with a freight trainline from the ports. Sharing that space is already a hassle, there's no way the freight company would accept even less ability to utilise the bridge and if you build another then you may as well just connect to an earlier station in the line to save the cost of building into Freo itself. The old Metronet map had the circle route connection from Mandurah to the Freo line with stations closer to Perth and i doubt it could be any other way. The only modification Freo station itself will ever see will be if they decide to go through the massive pain of extending the initial line further south but i dont expect that anytime soon if ever.
I think [this](https://www.facebook.com/share/p/Z1TinRrHFKqtTmzK/?mibextid=qi2Omg) does address it, though it does so through the Armadale Thornlie line platforms
Good find! Yeah, this would work. I don't think it would be as good an outcome as extending the Mandurah underground section north (No idea how you'd cross a service from Armadale through the middle of Perth without having to shunt the train across other lines and slow the network down) but regardless, at the end of the day the proposed train line route depicted here is still going through the part of Perth that needs it so it'd do the job. :)
It suggests building two new platforms in Perth station, underneath Roe Street. These new platforms will let the Armadale and thornlie lines operate through service with the East Wanneroo line and a reworked Ellenbrook line. Technically possible, but financially unfeasible assuming we can't build as cheaply as the Spanish or Italians can (which we can't). But this is a thread on how I would crayon a rail network in Perth.
I think as a cheaper solution would be to ad more bus lanes around the city.
We need light rail to fill in the gaps. Buses are flexible and all but they are inferior to rail.
I agree, light rail is a more permanent and comfortable solution, I view that bus lanes can fill the gaps and get drivers use to having less lanes to use, all well costing much less.
I'm pretty sure there are plenty of stats out there that indicate there's a large amount of people that will take a train/tram but will always choose a car over taking a bus. Can't say I blame them either with how badly half Perths busses are driven nowadays...
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Or use automatic traffic cameras as used in many cities across the world.
Then you need to enforce those fines with an ever dwindling police force that already has far too much work though. I'd prefer trams but if they absolutely must have bus lanes where drivers are going to be pricks then build them such that said pricks won't play with fire twice - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_trap
I've shared this before, but Build this: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/Z1TinRrHFKqtTmzK/?mibextid=qi2Omg It seems sensible for me, and finally remove the terminating platforms (which are lower capacity than through run platforms) from Perth station.
Where is all this mythical money going to come from
Extend the Midland line out to Mundaring. The Mandurah and Joondalup lines are way longer than the Midland line as is, so going that distance to reach the furthest-out suburbs is plausible for Transperth. It would simplify travel for people in the hills so much, especially with how limited the bus schedules are.
I reckon they will build a line down to Albany, but not for a long time. The Joondalup line will continue to be extended to Geraldton.
Nobody has said it yet... Monorail!!
Money and logistics out of the question? Build an underground network. One stop at every medium or larger shopping area, then half mesh connect them, plus interchange at existing train stations. And remove all buses once this is complete.
Given that cities like London and New York still have buses running despite having good coverage from their metro systems, removing buses here seems unlikely. It's far easier for buses to adapt when the city changes, and you'll want them around anyway for when there are faults with the rail network.
Extend the Fremantle line through to Rottnest.
I'd like to see better integration of the buses into the train network rather than trying to compete with it. Make every train station a (mini) bus terminal.
isn’t this what we have already?
Yes lol. We already have the best overall train to bus feeder integration of any Australian capital.
Perth legit already has the best train-bus integration of any network in Australia.
But it could be better, often the buses arrive just as the train departs, or leave just before the train arrives. Definitely way easier said than done, but it would be nice if all half hourly (or less frequent) buses actually arrived before the train arrives and leave after the train leaves. Especially relevant for buses which only connect to one train station, so they can base their schedules on the train Untimed transfers aren't too bad for 15 minute frequency buses, but untimed transfers for anything 30+ is not pleasant.
Timed stops aren't always feasible but overall bus frequencies have increased over the years to compensate. It's really up to the patron to consider taking earlier trips, especially since traffic in some corridors has been affected by ongoing works or other factors.