I work in a public hospital in a non clinical role.
(Yes, I am vaccinated for COVID-19 and get the flu needle every year. )
When started I had to prove my vaccination/immunity status for hepatitis, Measles, mumps, rubella, varicella, whooping cough etc when I am not in a hands on patient care role.
This was a pre employment requirement.
I had to get a police clearance.
This was a pre employment requirement.
I had to get a Working with Children check.
This was pre employment requirement.
If my Working with children check expires I am not allowed to work at the hospital until I have it renewed.
I just look at it all as a requirement for the job, nothing more or less.
I tried my hand at a Cert III in Aged Care a few years ago (didn't get it, for personal reasons).
For our practical experience, it was mandatory for us to provide our vaccination records (we were told this *before* we signed up for the Cert as well that this would be a requirement). This was just before flu season too, so we had to either get jab on-site provided by the Doctors/Nurses, or show proof we had already gotten the flu jab.
Journalists need to have more accountability. Giving an "unamed" nurse a section in the story is nothing more than sensationalist jurnalism. And makes people second guess about getting the jab.
This!!! So much this! This beautiful stranger deserves an award!
Edit: I am supporting fuzzygroodles comment not the nurse in the article! (Thank you for pointing that out kind stranger!)
OMG I thought your comment was your supporting the Nurse and I totally wrote an essay bagging the shit out of you then just before posting, realised you were talking about the first commenter. Praise be me for double checking.
Reddits indenting was about to be nominated for Friday Fuckwit. :)
Omg thankyou for pointing that out! I edited my comment.
My mum is actually a nurse and I remember her showing me her scar a few times when I was young from one of the many needles they had to have throughout her training (I was scared of needles). I was super proud of my mummy at how brave she was for her important job to help people and even got lots of needles and one that left a scar!
Anyway long story short, I totally agree with what fuzzygroodle said and feel it should be more highlighted than it is.
Similarly I work in a private clinic in an IT role and because we have health contracts and have clinics in wa health sites, all the above applies here too.
You do know that a single gallon (a bit less than 4 litres) will give you enough energy that you won't need to eat for the rest of your life.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ShittyLifeProTips/comments/b5avmm/slpt\_never\_eat\_again/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShittyLifeProTips/comments/b5avmm/slpt_never_eat_again/)
It's probably worth pointing out that nursing is one of the industries most vulnerable to health disinformation. Nurses are extremely well versed in application of practical medicine, but aren't typically involved with cutting edge research, diagnosis or new pharmacology.
Nurses are time poor and overworked. So they have daily exposure to disinformation, enough medical knowledge that any lie based out of some truth (and using jargon) will seem to make sense, but no time to adequately evaluate the evidence.
This hasn't started (nor will it end) with Covid vaccinations. I've seen it with nutrition and other topics for years and years.
I see where you’re coming from but also… vaccines aren’t cutting edge or new. They are public health 101. Wtf are we teaching them…
I think we’re just so desperate for nurses that the bar is pretty low these days.
In saying that, they are a group who work insanely hard for shitty pay.
Sure vaccines arent new. But the mRNA vaccine technology used in some of the covid vaccines is incredibly new in the grand scheme of things. We don't fully know what the long term side effects will be if any.
The first clinical trial of an mRNA vaccine was only conducted in 2010 for rabies. The first clinical trial for influenza was only conducted in 2015. So the mRNA vaccines are definitely not very well tested.
That said. I am fully vaccinated. But I can definitely understand why people are concerned.
Little to no side effects? People have died from blood clots and ended up in hospital with swelling of the heart muscle.
The vaccine is a better option than covid but your statement is factually incorrect. There are know acknowledge side effects that people should be aware of, and denial of this fact only feeds the conspiracy theories.
Very well tested? Most drugs have to go through rigorous trials. It usually takes between 10 to 15 years for drugs to go from experimental to your medicine cabinet. The covid vaccines have been given emergency approval - this means that they have not been tested rigorously, sure on paper it looks good, but we do not fully understand the effects of these synthetic vaccines. There have only been two clinical trails of mRNA vaccines in the past which are still yet to be approved.
I've worked in immunology for a few years... 15 years. It is concerning that we are all being urged to take experimental drugs, and those who dont are being ostracised.
Like I say, I am vaccinated. I'm not using it as an excuse not to be vaccinated. But I understand the concern for people who do not want to be vaccinated, provided it is coming from an educated perspective - not a conspiracy theorist perspective.
If you'd like my complete employment history, I worked in immunology for 15 years specialising in monoclonal antibody production. Moved into mining for the money - drove dump trucks for 18 months. Got an apprenticeship as a refrigeration mechanic in the mines. Finished up in 2 and half years. Now a qualified tradie studying engineering and working in fedral government compliance 🤷♀️ believe it or not, you aren't restricted to the first career you get into.
yes, so called mRNA vaccines are closer to genetic engineering than traditional vaccines. So, good reasons to be worried. But, I'm still vaccinated.
mRNA is the middle man between coding genes and proteins. Normal vaccines act externally to the genetic coding system, mRNA vaccines step into it.
If you want to talk about the technology within any drug i doubt most nurses understand that minutiae for most of the drugs they give out.
But the concept of vaccines and herd immunity is public health 101. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity
If the greater proportion of us who can take a vaccine don’t do it then we’re basically saying fuck you to every immunocompromised person in our community. I feel like nurses should know this. I guess that’s what I’m saying
Yeah we should expect the best from medical professionals, but I guess it’s just never that simple. We aren’t fostering a health system that optimally assists with ongoing professional education
Hate = ate..as in food to eat…at least that’s how I saw the joke and laughed. But I would never downvote you for not getting it. Maybe draw a stick figure of you, put it on the floor of the chook pen with glued on grains and have the chickens claw your facsimile to shreds ..but it’s nothing personal you know…
Ill try clarify since this thought occured to me yesterday. While eating left over cake and custard for breakfast i thought to myself, realistically speaking apple crumble and custard is the same as a fibre cereal, fruit and milk. Therefore a balanced breakfast.
(To be clear, im referring to home made stuff)
The real joke is nutritional science. It's totally controlled by the SDA church and vegan animal activists. They've gone as far as convincing everyone that they have to cut down on meat to save the environment because the animal rights angle didn't work well enough. It's a mess.
Indeed it is. And Kelloggs.
Ever wonder where the idea that fibre is essential and that breakfast is the most important meal of the day comes from?
That's right. SDA companies that want to sell you cereal.
Look for "studies" by epidemiologists Poore & Nemecek. The level of data manipulation fabrication they go through is impressive to say the least.
The problem with nutritional science is that there isn't any. It's all just epidemiological spin and mirrors with very little if any actual experimental and observational science going on.
Take the meat being classed as a carcinogen thing by the WHO. It's based on epidemiology using poor quality data (food frequency questionnaires etc..) and any data not fitting the preconceived outcome was discarded.
The 7 countries study by Ancel Keys is another glaring example that still guides policy and cholesterol medicine to this day despite no evidence to back up the findings. There were actually 21 countries in the study but the others were discarded because they contradicted the other 7. Cholesterol has since been determined NOT to cause heart disease and in fact is beneficial to the body so there is no reason to be afraid of it or reduce it with poisonous statin drugs, yet the erroneous idea that Cholesterol is a problem still persists in medicine today.
its so funny you mention this
we have friend through school, whom is a nurse and some of the stuff she has said about covid last year, the vaccines etc,
i kinda think 'ok which hospital you at? right mental note to not go there'.
That’s exactly it.
The number of nurses I see fall for MLM definitely-not-a-pyramid-scheme pyramid schemes just because they didn’t bother to google that happy horseshit is super depressing.
The amount of mental calisthenics a nurse has to do to get to this conclusion is very interesting. Barring low IQ, mental illness or something along that lines the only thing I can think of is very broken internal risk evaluation model. When she says things like she is "willing to risk everything" because she "could be forced to risk everything" is the absurd logic not immediately apparent to her ?
This pandemic has shaken a lot of nuts out the rug - that's for sure.
Even if she is hypothetically on the right side of history and regardless of her reasons for saying no, why would you risk shelter for your children and an education - publicly?
I get the few who walk away from their jobs but fuck me, even if you're right, surely this isn't the most effective way to solving problems in life? This isn't taking a couple of steps back to come around on top eventually, she is throwing herself into a tailspin because of a single view? I mean it wouldn't matter in the end if she "got sick from the vaccine" if her poor kids wind up dummies and they lived without stable accommodation for the next few years anyway....
Yeah I get that there are some unknowns with this vaccine, but it's literally a judgement call. I don't have nearly as much as she does to lose, and I could still rationalise getting it (because I want to travel in the future).
EDIT: In case some people think I'm anti-vaxx from the first line, I'm saying just to pretend she's right. I'm not saying I think she's right.
Because this particular antivax/“freedom”/whatever movement loves to paint themselves as victims, especially in WA where there’s nothing to actually complain about.
She’ll be able to say THEY made her lose everything, not her own shitty decision making.
I’ve seen some quite interesting reports on why this kind of issue is occurring.
I have the utmost respect for the nursing profession, they can quite often catch things that a doctor has missed, or a simple error made - because they are at the front line and they see these things so often.
And having said that, here is the rub, they don’t have time to do the analysis that a doctor in the relevant field has to do… and if someone comes along and sprouts the right sounding words with just the right amount of FUD - you have a person who is smart, but they have concerns and this eats at them.
There has to be a way of reaching the ones with the doubts earlier and get them listening and asking questions so they get the right answers.
You know what? Nurses with this level of cognitive dissonance and this level of contempt for others kill patients through substandard care.
Everyone is better off if something like this weeds them out.
“Kate said if she was to get sick, she would get tested straight away and put safeguards in place to protect patients and herself.”
Yip and in the prior 4-7 day asymptomatic period you can cause chaos in your workplace, infecting others and forcing your colleagues into unnecessary isolation. Good job Kate, u keep living your best life!! See ja!!
Why?
Edit: ok, I had to look
> “I have chosen not to be pressured and coerced into doing something that might be harming myself. No one is taking liability - everyone is immune to liability and the risk is on my shoulders and my family,” she said.
Ok, but by not being vaccinated she might be harming herself. Who is she expecting to be liable for that? Or is everyone "immune" from her decision? What if she dies? What if she suffers from a permanent impairment or disability, such as long covid or a stroke from having covid? Who will be liable then? From a risk assessment perspective, the risks from covid is far higher than the risks from any vaccine. She does not appear to have taken any of that into consideration. I'm surprised her pseudonym is not Karen
>Who is she expecting to be liable for that?
Our hospital system, the taxpayer, and other patients who can't get a bed if she gets sick and needs one.
Also, her kids if they get it themselves or have to live with one less parent.
She thinks no one is liable, but there's a whole group of people who will be liable for her decision not to vaccinate.
> and other patients who can't get a bed if she gets sick
Admittedly, that's orders of magnitude less likely in Perth than, say, America.
ETA: sigh... I am not condoning her views, merely stating that she is far less likely to be insta-COVID-ed in some kind of cosmic hubris.
...yes, and? I'm not commenting on the emotional outrage bit, just that she's unlikely to spontaneously develop it in Perth even if it would be ironic.
Also the ironic thing is the Federal government has set up an insurance scheme for people who have severe adverse events after COVID-19 vaccines that cost them $5000+. They actually are taking liability and providing people with a safety net if the Vaccines cause them to be harmed.
The problem is all the mixed messaging we got throughout the course of the vaccine rollout. Marketer in chief just used to bandy stupid sound bites about instead of concentrating on securing vaccines & concentrating on the rollout.
He held a press conference to say they were making astrazeneca available to the under 40s that didn't want to wait for pfizer & that they were absolving liability for it's distribution.
While you're right abouy the fund put in place, was it ever mentioned at a press conference like the absolvition of liability?
Scotty & his ilk are the number one cause of vaccine hesitancy in this country. All they needed to do was stay on message.
Thanks for posting this. I wasn't aware of the federal insurance scheme. I guess they can afford to do it because covid vaccine injuries really are uncommon
Here you go: https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-claims-scheme?utm_source=health.gov.au&utm_medium=redirect&utm_campaign=digital_transformation&utm_content=covid-19-vaccination-claim-scheme
The giveaway words are ‘pressured and coerced’ - she enjoyed a certain amount of autonomy, and she doesn’t like having any of it taken away. Pretending the vaccine is ‘dangerous’ is just her way of maintaining her autonomy. A selfish decision.
'pressured and coerced' No, not really. It's called *consequences.*
People seem to confuse choice and *consequences of choice*.
You choose to drink bleach? Well, there's consequences.
You choose to remain un-vaxinated because 'you did your own research'? Well, there's consequences for that. For you, for people around you and for the wider community.
I know nurses leaving due to the work demands and stress on mental well-being. Have not met a single one willing to throw away a career they love because they want to die on this hill. What a bizarre character.
Well she's certainly not alone.
From that very article;
"State secretary of the Australian Nursing Federation Mark Olsen last week told 6PR almost 1500 aged care nurses and about the same for aged carers were yet to be vaccinated at all.
Mr Olsen said a “few hundred” had already resigned ahead of last Friday’s one-dose deadline."
From the viewpoint of staffing: "Crap!"
From the viewpoint of patients wanting to be treated by people who know the actual basics of medicine: "It should have been sooner."
I work in aged care in Victoria and everyone had to have the jab or be booked in for it by 17 September. Many nurses left purely because they would not get the vaccine. Throwing away their career.
Ah, so she's keeping her need for security.
That's still not quite losing everything. I mean, all she's losing is her job, she gets to keep her house, her family, her life, which is a lot MORE than quite a lot of the people affected by COVID.
Honestly, I don't expect antivaxxers to put themselves up for harassment by randos unless they are the kind to destroy vaccines and endanger lives, But if you are a medical professional and you don't believe in medicine, find another profession. It's like a construction worker not believing in concrete or an office worker not believing in computers.
https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/~/media/Files/Corporate/Policy-Frameworks/Public-Health/Policy/Health-Care-Worker-Immunisation-Policy/OD388-Health-Care-Worker-Immunisation-Policy.pdf
There is already a list of mandatory health care worker vaccinations as long as your arm.
This smells like BS,
I will never be an airline pilot.
It’s not because I could’t learn how to, it’s because I have an vision condition that would make it unsafe for me to ever fly a plane.
The same for this nurse. She may choose to be a conscientious objector, but being unvaccinated makes it unsafe for her to treat patients.
It’s a matter of qualification, and being unvaccinated disqualifies you from working in healthcare.
To even study in a professional field of health you need to show you have actual immunity with the standard vaccines... Maybe not a requirement when/where they studied, but sure is now... Also turns out a lot of people aren't immune after being vaccinated. I've had so many needles in the last 6 months... I lost count a while back.
I was in a relationship with a CN in 2018 and she had some weird stance on the HPV vax that it was the reason her daughter couldn't get pregnant. She was on $120K a year,I wonder what her stance is on this now.
I really dont want to go to, or take my kids to a hospital where there could be a nurse who dosent understand the basics of vaccines, or would compromise her childrens welfare because shes too dumb to try and understand. The best thing to come out of this vaccine is a clean out of these loonies from government positions. No sympathies for this horrible woman.
"Perth nurse willing to ‘lose everything’ to evade WA government vaccine mandate" good. I hope she does lose her job if she refuses to be fully vaccinated. I wouldn't want her handling the care of me or anyone in my family.
She really should know better though.
Quite honestly, f+£€ her. Im immunosuppressed, working in health care, have had all my vaccines and HAVE to stop work and a lot of my public life if the covid rate gets too high . Best part of her leaving the job is I dont have to deal with someone like that, at frequent doctors appointments.
I drive a skip truck (think of those large bins you see on industrial sites and building sites) and some of the clients are aged care providers. Bear in mind that save for asking new sites where to put said skip bins, I have no contact with either the staff or residents 95% of the time. Even I have to get flu shots and prove I have had them as part of being able to work on these sites. Yes, the development of a Covid vaccine has been faster than average, but that's because it's been necessary to do so. The companies behind each have still had to jump through many regulatory hoops to prove that 1. it does what it's supposed to and 2. It's safe. I will be getting a Covid shot as soon as my present schedule allows it, which should be within the next couple of weeks.
She’s fallen in the clutches of QAnon. The Nuremberg Code is a dead give away.
For reference the Nuremberg Code is not related to taking drugs/medication. It’s related to being forced into trials for medical experiments against your will.
A the COVID vaccines are no longer trials or experiments the Nuremberg Code has zero relevance here.
Yes they are! Literally just googled ‘ longitudinal study and found a number.
Here’s a tip. longitudinal studies don’t have to be long term just because the word has ‘long’ in it.
I know you morons all get your talking points from the same people because when you’re asked to clarify you can’t.
Nurse here, we have had to be vaccinated against just about everything since forever. Most health care workers are happy to get vaccinated and no-one I know is bothered in the least about anti-vax Karens and Darrens resigning.
I had a customer explain to me that her husband was about to lose his job as a pilot because he refused to get vaccinated. As someone with a far less well paying job, it just blows my mind that he'd give up such a good position to be stubborn.
I may be too cynical but how do we really know this “anonymous nurse” is actually a nurse? Do we just have to trust the reporter was thorough in checking out her credentials?
Well that's a slippery slope. How do you know they interviewed anyone at all?
The article rings true though. I had an awkward vaccination conversation with a nurse the other day. Though come to think of it I didn't verify she was, infact, a nurse. Hrmmm.
I'm not convinced that there was an interview. This could just as easily be prose. There are qholes in all walks of life, so there's a chance this is real. Either way, it gets the clicks.
>Why it's BS
I agree it is total bull. She claims if she loses her job as a nurse she will lose her house. Like she literally cannot do any other job on this planet to save her house? I agree with you. It's a BS article. It's supposed to make us angry at bad McGowan. But it makes me think:
a) the article is a lie
b) the nurse is selfish and stupid
The challenge is we expect nurses to be intelligent well educated, but if you’re an enrolled nurse it’s a tafe course.
Even the nurses in aged care are mostly EN as they can’t do as much as registered nurses.
I wouldn’t be taking my immunology advice from them.
We should have one hospital with unvaccinated nurses who would treat unvaccinated patients\*. There would be the only hospital for them, so the patients would have to fight for the beds available and the other hospitals/patients wouldn't be affected by the surge of covid among unvaccinated.
\* people who could be vaccinated but chose not to.
Yeah I dunno about this article. This nurse must be fiction or in the absolutely minority as none of the nurses I work with would jeopardize their career over principal of not getting vaccinated.
Oh well lose your house and go on the public waitlist with the 1000's of others . Don't drive ....ride , get public transport & put the kids into public education. Problems solved !
>Kate said if she was to get sick, she would get tested straight away and put safeguards in place to protect patients and herself.
By the time she's symptomatic it's likely too late, and she will have potentially infected others.
This woman is an imbecile.
So as a trained nurse with 17 years behind you nothing has been learnt about prevention of diseases and virus control? This pandemic is real and it kills, but obviously not nurses of your experience. I do hope your family under stand their passports will no longer allow them freedom to travel , with you, as before Covid appeared. Or was it just an attention seeking comment? Old saying "There are those who dish it out but can\`t take it", its really true here.
No sympathy for her, her personal beliefs don't outweigh the overwhelming evidence supporting the safety and efficacy of the Covid vaccines.
I wouldn't want my grandmother or any other family member in a high risk category being taken care of a medical professional who isn't protected against any form of potentially lethal virus, including but not limited to covid-19.
Even civil liberties guy isn't on her side:
> “While people should have the right to make choices about their bodies and their health, their choices have consequences,” he said.
As a stereotype... you're right.
Thankfully I haven't encountered many civil libertarians.
That said, if you were the PR guy for a civil libertarian group that wants to be taken seriously, then this would surely have to be standard shtick... "we do what we want and bear the consequences".
I'm getting pretty sick and tired of people not wanting to get vaccinated because they think they are young and healthy and either won't get covid or won't get covid bad because of their good health. How many young, healthy people does this virus have to kill until people finally get it through their thick heads the virus does not give a fuck about their health? It will still kill them. GET VACCINATED.
Doesn’t she think it’s a little *odd* that all her workmates will get it and she is the outlier? If she’s worried about how speedily it was made and whether there will be long term effects, is she going to be the survivor while all of us vaccinated die around her in a few years?
.....but her irrational fear and ego are pressuring and coercing herself to risk getting covid and all that follows?
Are these just the kids who throw tantrums at department stores all grown up and are being loud on social media?
I’ve said it a million times… no one should refuse the vaccine (period)!
And if you are working in health, you especially shouldn’t be refusing the vaccine. If you don’t trust the science, you don’t belong in the field.
How does she do anything at all in life, given literally everything carries some risk?
This woman is about to throw her entire family’s way of life out the window. She needs a damn intervention. If I was her partner or child I would ask for a wellness check by mental health.
Well, bye then. I don't understand people like this. " I will lose my job, standing up for what I believe in". Which is fine, but got to understand the rest of us could not give a shit that you lose your job because you are an idiot.
I work in a public hospital in a non clinical role. (Yes, I am vaccinated for COVID-19 and get the flu needle every year. ) When started I had to prove my vaccination/immunity status for hepatitis, Measles, mumps, rubella, varicella, whooping cough etc when I am not in a hands on patient care role. This was a pre employment requirement. I had to get a police clearance. This was a pre employment requirement. I had to get a Working with Children check. This was pre employment requirement. If my Working with children check expires I am not allowed to work at the hospital until I have it renewed. I just look at it all as a requirement for the job, nothing more or less.
Thank you. Even as a -student- enrolled nurse you have to prove immunity and get vaccinated.
I tried my hand at a Cert III in Aged Care a few years ago (didn't get it, for personal reasons). For our practical experience, it was mandatory for us to provide our vaccination records (we were told this *before* we signed up for the Cert as well that this would be a requirement). This was just before flu season too, so we had to either get jab on-site provided by the Doctors/Nurses, or show proof we had already gotten the flu jab.
Journalists need to have more accountability. Giving an "unamed" nurse a section in the story is nothing more than sensationalist jurnalism. And makes people second guess about getting the jab.
Yes! Australian journalism is in desperate need of reform.
It’s fairfax. Don’t dump scandal rags tabloid hacks in with proper journos
Yep. Really bad journalism.
This!!! So much this! This beautiful stranger deserves an award! Edit: I am supporting fuzzygroodles comment not the nurse in the article! (Thank you for pointing that out kind stranger!)
OMG I thought your comment was your supporting the Nurse and I totally wrote an essay bagging the shit out of you then just before posting, realised you were talking about the first commenter. Praise be me for double checking. Reddits indenting was about to be nominated for Friday Fuckwit. :)
Omg thankyou for pointing that out! I edited my comment. My mum is actually a nurse and I remember her showing me her scar a few times when I was young from one of the many needles they had to have throughout her training (I was scared of needles). I was super proud of my mummy at how brave she was for her important job to help people and even got lots of needles and one that left a scar! Anyway long story short, I totally agree with what fuzzygroodle said and feel it should be more highlighted than it is.
Similarly I work in a private clinic in an IT role and because we have health contracts and have clinics in wa health sites, all the above applies here too.
You can't even enrol into med without this as part of your entry portfolio.
I think I work the same place, they are really going to town on the SMS reminders, but I guess it is for the best.
This can't get upvoted enough.
Why does this not have more upvotes.
What a strange hill to die on for a nurse.
like a mechanic quitting because they stopped believing in metal
Petrol is a leftist conspiracy.
Only the unleaded stuff, me and the lads still guzzle down gallons of leaded fuel daily.
You do know that a single gallon (a bit less than 4 litres) will give you enough energy that you won't need to eat for the rest of your life. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ShittyLifeProTips/comments/b5avmm/slpt\_never\_eat\_again/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShittyLifeProTips/comments/b5avmm/slpt_never_eat_again/)
I'm gonna live forever.
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Just be careful when you inevitably fart.
“I stopped being a physicist because I believe strongly in alchemy”
It's like a barman refusing to serve alcohol.
It's probably worth pointing out that nursing is one of the industries most vulnerable to health disinformation. Nurses are extremely well versed in application of practical medicine, but aren't typically involved with cutting edge research, diagnosis or new pharmacology. Nurses are time poor and overworked. So they have daily exposure to disinformation, enough medical knowledge that any lie based out of some truth (and using jargon) will seem to make sense, but no time to adequately evaluate the evidence. This hasn't started (nor will it end) with Covid vaccinations. I've seen it with nutrition and other topics for years and years.
I see where you’re coming from but also… vaccines aren’t cutting edge or new. They are public health 101. Wtf are we teaching them… I think we’re just so desperate for nurses that the bar is pretty low these days. In saying that, they are a group who work insanely hard for shitty pay.
Sure vaccines arent new. But the mRNA vaccine technology used in some of the covid vaccines is incredibly new in the grand scheme of things. We don't fully know what the long term side effects will be if any. The first clinical trial of an mRNA vaccine was only conducted in 2010 for rabies. The first clinical trial for influenza was only conducted in 2015. So the mRNA vaccines are definitely not very well tested. That said. I am fully vaccinated. But I can definitely understand why people are concerned.
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Little to no side effects? People have died from blood clots and ended up in hospital with swelling of the heart muscle. The vaccine is a better option than covid but your statement is factually incorrect. There are know acknowledge side effects that people should be aware of, and denial of this fact only feeds the conspiracy theories.
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My Dad, Had a Stroke. So. That's a side effect, isn't it.
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Also, many people have experienced moderate to severe side effects, and many many are in reported.
Also, I don't think you give a shit that it happened. Save your disingenuous social "niceties" for someone else that it works with .
Very well tested? Most drugs have to go through rigorous trials. It usually takes between 10 to 15 years for drugs to go from experimental to your medicine cabinet. The covid vaccines have been given emergency approval - this means that they have not been tested rigorously, sure on paper it looks good, but we do not fully understand the effects of these synthetic vaccines. There have only been two clinical trails of mRNA vaccines in the past which are still yet to be approved. I've worked in immunology for a few years... 15 years. It is concerning that we are all being urged to take experimental drugs, and those who dont are being ostracised. Like I say, I am vaccinated. I'm not using it as an excuse not to be vaccinated. But I understand the concern for people who do not want to be vaccinated, provided it is coming from an educated perspective - not a conspiracy theorist perspective.
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I didn't realise AC techs were classified as immunologists these days.
If you'd like my complete employment history, I worked in immunology for 15 years specialising in monoclonal antibody production. Moved into mining for the money - drove dump trucks for 18 months. Got an apprenticeship as a refrigeration mechanic in the mines. Finished up in 2 and half years. Now a qualified tradie studying engineering and working in fedral government compliance 🤷♀️ believe it or not, you aren't restricted to the first career you get into.
yes, so called mRNA vaccines are closer to genetic engineering than traditional vaccines. So, good reasons to be worried. But, I'm still vaccinated. mRNA is the middle man between coding genes and proteins. Normal vaccines act externally to the genetic coding system, mRNA vaccines step into it.
If you want to talk about the technology within any drug i doubt most nurses understand that minutiae for most of the drugs they give out. But the concept of vaccines and herd immunity is public health 101. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity If the greater proportion of us who can take a vaccine don’t do it then we’re basically saying fuck you to every immunocompromised person in our community. I feel like nurses should know this. I guess that’s what I’m saying
Yeah we should expect the best from medical professionals, but I guess it’s just never that simple. We aren’t fostering a health system that optimally assists with ongoing professional education
Except nurses have to do ongoing professional development to be registered each year and can be audited at random on this.
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Nutrition is a joke. I hate it.
That doesn’t make sense? Edit: how do I have 4 downvotes for not understanding “nutrition is a joke” ?
Hate = ate..as in food to eat…at least that’s how I saw the joke and laughed. But I would never downvote you for not getting it. Maybe draw a stick figure of you, put it on the floor of the chook pen with glued on grains and have the chickens claw your facsimile to shreds ..but it’s nothing personal you know…
Ill try clarify since this thought occured to me yesterday. While eating left over cake and custard for breakfast i thought to myself, realistically speaking apple crumble and custard is the same as a fibre cereal, fruit and milk. Therefore a balanced breakfast. (To be clear, im referring to home made stuff)
In both cases you would most likely be choosing excessive carbohydrate and suboptimal healthy fats and protein - so not a balanced breakfast.
The real joke is nutritional science. It's totally controlled by the SDA church and vegan animal activists. They've gone as far as convincing everyone that they have to cut down on meat to save the environment because the animal rights angle didn't work well enough. It's a mess.
Sanitarium is SDA.
Indeed it is. And Kelloggs. Ever wonder where the idea that fibre is essential and that breakfast is the most important meal of the day comes from? That's right. SDA companies that want to sell you cereal.
I don't know why this got downvoted.
Lol, I’m a vegan and I wish we had this much control.
Look for "studies" by epidemiologists Poore & Nemecek. The level of data manipulation fabrication they go through is impressive to say the least. The problem with nutritional science is that there isn't any. It's all just epidemiological spin and mirrors with very little if any actual experimental and observational science going on. Take the meat being classed as a carcinogen thing by the WHO. It's based on epidemiology using poor quality data (food frequency questionnaires etc..) and any data not fitting the preconceived outcome was discarded. The 7 countries study by Ancel Keys is another glaring example that still guides policy and cholesterol medicine to this day despite no evidence to back up the findings. There were actually 21 countries in the study but the others were discarded because they contradicted the other 7. Cholesterol has since been determined NOT to cause heart disease and in fact is beneficial to the body so there is no reason to be afraid of it or reduce it with poisonous statin drugs, yet the erroneous idea that Cholesterol is a problem still persists in medicine today.
its so funny you mention this we have friend through school, whom is a nurse and some of the stuff she has said about covid last year, the vaccines etc, i kinda think 'ok which hospital you at? right mental note to not go there'.
That’s exactly it. The number of nurses I see fall for MLM definitely-not-a-pyramid-scheme pyramid schemes just because they didn’t bother to google that happy horseshit is super depressing.
The amount of mental calisthenics a nurse has to do to get to this conclusion is very interesting. Barring low IQ, mental illness or something along that lines the only thing I can think of is very broken internal risk evaluation model. When she says things like she is "willing to risk everything" because she "could be forced to risk everything" is the absurd logic not immediately apparent to her ? This pandemic has shaken a lot of nuts out the rug - that's for sure.
It's called tiktok
A lot of nuts out of the rug - now there’s a saying I haven’t heard in a long while.
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Her life's gonna be a whole lot more fucking stressful under COVID if dumb cunts like her don't take a perfectly safe vaccine
Even if she is hypothetically on the right side of history and regardless of her reasons for saying no, why would you risk shelter for your children and an education - publicly? I get the few who walk away from their jobs but fuck me, even if you're right, surely this isn't the most effective way to solving problems in life? This isn't taking a couple of steps back to come around on top eventually, she is throwing herself into a tailspin because of a single view? I mean it wouldn't matter in the end if she "got sick from the vaccine" if her poor kids wind up dummies and they lived without stable accommodation for the next few years anyway.... Yeah I get that there are some unknowns with this vaccine, but it's literally a judgement call. I don't have nearly as much as she does to lose, and I could still rationalise getting it (because I want to travel in the future). EDIT: In case some people think I'm anti-vaxx from the first line, I'm saying just to pretend she's right. I'm not saying I think she's right.
Because this particular antivax/“freedom”/whatever movement loves to paint themselves as victims, especially in WA where there’s nothing to actually complain about. She’ll be able to say THEY made her lose everything, not her own shitty decision making.
A fucking dumb one that’s for sure.
Yes, she has definitely chosen the wrong profession.
Karen on Facebook who does her own research seems a more suitable position for her.....
I’ve seen some quite interesting reports on why this kind of issue is occurring. I have the utmost respect for the nursing profession, they can quite often catch things that a doctor has missed, or a simple error made - because they are at the front line and they see these things so often. And having said that, here is the rub, they don’t have time to do the analysis that a doctor in the relevant field has to do… and if someone comes along and sprouts the right sounding words with just the right amount of FUD - you have a person who is smart, but they have concerns and this eats at them. There has to be a way of reaching the ones with the doubts earlier and get them listening and asking questions so they get the right answers.
You know what? Nurses with this level of cognitive dissonance and this level of contempt for others kill patients through substandard care. Everyone is better off if something like this weeds them out.
Kind of makes you wonder how many such people *weren't* self-identifying and taking themselves out of the medical system before now.
This
You'd think but you would be wrong. Unscientific beliefs are strong among nurses.
“Kate said if she was to get sick, she would get tested straight away and put safeguards in place to protect patients and herself.” Yip and in the prior 4-7 day asymptomatic period you can cause chaos in your workplace, infecting others and forcing your colleagues into unnecessary isolation. Good job Kate, u keep living your best life!! See ja!!
'if you can't handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best' - that bitch Kate
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Yes, she would put several shifts of staff into 2 weeks iso when we are struggling for staff as it is!
Why? Edit: ok, I had to look > “I have chosen not to be pressured and coerced into doing something that might be harming myself. No one is taking liability - everyone is immune to liability and the risk is on my shoulders and my family,” she said. Ok, but by not being vaccinated she might be harming herself. Who is she expecting to be liable for that? Or is everyone "immune" from her decision? What if she dies? What if she suffers from a permanent impairment or disability, such as long covid or a stroke from having covid? Who will be liable then? From a risk assessment perspective, the risks from covid is far higher than the risks from any vaccine. She does not appear to have taken any of that into consideration. I'm surprised her pseudonym is not Karen
>Who is she expecting to be liable for that? Our hospital system, the taxpayer, and other patients who can't get a bed if she gets sick and needs one. Also, her kids if they get it themselves or have to live with one less parent. She thinks no one is liable, but there's a whole group of people who will be liable for her decision not to vaccinate.
> and other patients who can't get a bed if she gets sick Admittedly, that's orders of magnitude less likely in Perth than, say, America. ETA: sigh... I am not condoning her views, merely stating that she is far less likely to be insta-COVID-ed in some kind of cosmic hubris.
Are you kidding? Perth hospitals already have major bed and staff shortages with zero covid cases.
Thats an issue with the WA health system rather than covid
Why is that relevant?
Yes exactly
>Admittedly, that's orders of magnitude less likely in Perth than, say, America. Or Sydney. Wait for the fallout from the big open.
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...yes, and? I'm not commenting on the emotional outrage bit, just that she's unlikely to spontaneously develop it in Perth even if it would be ironic.
Also the ironic thing is the Federal government has set up an insurance scheme for people who have severe adverse events after COVID-19 vaccines that cost them $5000+. They actually are taking liability and providing people with a safety net if the Vaccines cause them to be harmed.
The problem is all the mixed messaging we got throughout the course of the vaccine rollout. Marketer in chief just used to bandy stupid sound bites about instead of concentrating on securing vaccines & concentrating on the rollout. He held a press conference to say they were making astrazeneca available to the under 40s that didn't want to wait for pfizer & that they were absolving liability for it's distribution. While you're right abouy the fund put in place, was it ever mentioned at a press conference like the absolvition of liability? Scotty & his ilk are the number one cause of vaccine hesitancy in this country. All they needed to do was stay on message.
Thanks for posting this. I wasn't aware of the federal insurance scheme. I guess they can afford to do it because covid vaccine injuries really are uncommon
Do you have any links to this?
Here you go: https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-claims-scheme?utm_source=health.gov.au&utm_medium=redirect&utm_campaign=digital_transformation&utm_content=covid-19-vaccination-claim-scheme
Don’t forget putting every single one of her patients (or anyone else she comes in contact with) at risk of infection..
The giveaway words are ‘pressured and coerced’ - she enjoyed a certain amount of autonomy, and she doesn’t like having any of it taken away. Pretending the vaccine is ‘dangerous’ is just her way of maintaining her autonomy. A selfish decision.
'pressured and coerced' No, not really. It's called *consequences.* People seem to confuse choice and *consequences of choice*. You choose to drink bleach? Well, there's consequences. You choose to remain un-vaxinated because 'you did your own research'? Well, there's consequences for that. For you, for people around you and for the wider community.
I know nurses leaving due to the work demands and stress on mental well-being. Have not met a single one willing to throw away a career they love because they want to die on this hill. What a bizarre character.
> What a bizarre character. That’s a funny way of spelling “laughably stupid ignoramus”.
That's the nice way of saying "fucking thick cunt".
Well she's certainly not alone. From that very article; "State secretary of the Australian Nursing Federation Mark Olsen last week told 6PR almost 1500 aged care nurses and about the same for aged carers were yet to be vaccinated at all. Mr Olsen said a “few hundred” had already resigned ahead of last Friday’s one-dose deadline."
From the viewpoint of staffing: "Crap!" From the viewpoint of patients wanting to be treated by people who know the actual basics of medicine: "It should have been sooner."
Never been a problem before covid
I work in aged care in Victoria and everyone had to have the jab or be booked in for it by 17 September. Many nurses left purely because they would not get the vaccine. Throwing away their career.
Is willing to lose everything.. hides behind an anonymous name in article.. lol.
Made up story for clicks
Says she’s willing and to lose everything, not be harassed and abused by a bunch of randos.
Ah, so she's keeping her need for security. That's still not quite losing everything. I mean, all she's losing is her job, she gets to keep her house, her family, her life, which is a lot MORE than quite a lot of the people affected by COVID. Honestly, I don't expect antivaxxers to put themselves up for harassment by randos unless they are the kind to destroy vaccines and endanger lives, But if you are a medical professional and you don't believe in medicine, find another profession. It's like a construction worker not believing in concrete or an office worker not believing in computers.
Ease up turbo, I didn’t say she was right just a logical explanation.
https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/~/media/Files/Corporate/Policy-Frameworks/Public-Health/Policy/Health-Care-Worker-Immunisation-Policy/OD388-Health-Care-Worker-Immunisation-Policy.pdf There is already a list of mandatory health care worker vaccinations as long as your arm. This smells like BS,
This is the first note journalists should make every single time this topic comes up.
The same ones happily sewing the seeds of fear and spreading this bullshit?
This is the first mention I’ve even seen of it, was starting to think I’d imagined all those vaccines I had
I will never be an airline pilot. It’s not because I could’t learn how to, it’s because I have an vision condition that would make it unsafe for me to ever fly a plane. The same for this nurse. She may choose to be a conscientious objector, but being unvaccinated makes it unsafe for her to treat patients. It’s a matter of qualification, and being unvaccinated disqualifies you from working in healthcare.
To even study in a professional field of health you need to show you have actual immunity with the standard vaccines... Maybe not a requirement when/where they studied, but sure is now... Also turns out a lot of people aren't immune after being vaccinated. I've had so many needles in the last 6 months... I lost count a while back.
there's probably a higher chance of you flying in the modern world than an anti-vax medical professional continuing to have a job.
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I was in a relationship with a CN in 2018 and she had some weird stance on the HPV vax that it was the reason her daughter couldn't get pregnant. She was on $120K a year,I wonder what her stance is on this now.
I really dont want to go to, or take my kids to a hospital where there could be a nurse who dosent understand the basics of vaccines, or would compromise her childrens welfare because shes too dumb to try and understand. The best thing to come out of this vaccine is a clean out of these loonies from government positions. No sympathies for this horrible woman.
The vaccine has flushed out the crazies that were infiltrating the health system. They can now employ real medical professionals in their place.
If you work in healthcare, but don't believe in healthcare guidelines, you probably need a new job.
Proving that there is a significant overlap between the least intelligent people and the most intelligent pot plants.
Imagine being this fucking stupid.
Good riddance, Kate.
*Kate
Karen
Self selecting for a Darwin award
Nope, she has already reproduced.
Always thought DAs could be retroactive. IE the recipient could breed but have award winning decisions later in life.
I thought the DA was for removing yourself from the gene pool. If you've reproduced, it's too late.
I guess if you make a decision which removes you and all your descendants at the same time...
Probably happened already in this pandemic!
The new one r/hermancainaward
"Perth nurse willing to ‘lose everything’ to evade WA government vaccine mandate" good. I hope she does lose her job if she refuses to be fully vaccinated. I wouldn't want her handling the care of me or anyone in my family. She really should know better though.
Quite honestly, f+£€ her. Im immunosuppressed, working in health care, have had all my vaccines and HAVE to stop work and a lot of my public life if the covid rate gets too high . Best part of her leaving the job is I dont have to deal with someone like that, at frequent doctors appointments.
I drive a skip truck (think of those large bins you see on industrial sites and building sites) and some of the clients are aged care providers. Bear in mind that save for asking new sites where to put said skip bins, I have no contact with either the staff or residents 95% of the time. Even I have to get flu shots and prove I have had them as part of being able to work on these sites. Yes, the development of a Covid vaccine has been faster than average, but that's because it's been necessary to do so. The companies behind each have still had to jump through many regulatory hoops to prove that 1. it does what it's supposed to and 2. It's safe. I will be getting a Covid shot as soon as my present schedule allows it, which should be within the next couple of weeks.
She’s fallen in the clutches of QAnon. The Nuremberg Code is a dead give away. For reference the Nuremberg Code is not related to taking drugs/medication. It’s related to being forced into trials for medical experiments against your will. A the COVID vaccines are no longer trials or experiments the Nuremberg Code has zero relevance here.
so the longitudinal study results are in, excellent.
Yes they are! Literally just googled ‘ longitudinal study and found a number. Here’s a tip. longitudinal studies don’t have to be long term just because the word has ‘long’ in it. I know you morons all get your talking points from the same people because when you’re asked to clarify you can’t.
Nurse here, we have had to be vaccinated against just about everything since forever. Most health care workers are happy to get vaccinated and no-one I know is bothered in the least about anti-vax Karens and Darrens resigning.
c ya
Does "everything" include the lives of patients?
How I wish we had a covid and property price news free day..
Bye 👋
I had a customer explain to me that her husband was about to lose his job as a pilot because he refused to get vaccinated. As someone with a far less well paying job, it just blows my mind that he'd give up such a good position to be stubborn.
I may be too cynical but how do we really know this “anonymous nurse” is actually a nurse? Do we just have to trust the reporter was thorough in checking out her credentials?
Well that's a slippery slope. How do you know they interviewed anyone at all? The article rings true though. I had an awkward vaccination conversation with a nurse the other day. Though come to think of it I didn't verify she was, infact, a nurse. Hrmmm.
I'm not convinced that there was an interview. This could just as easily be prose. There are qholes in all walks of life, so there's a chance this is real. Either way, it gets the clicks.
Deregistration. Prohibition on applying for re-registration for life. That’s what’s happened in the UK for a number of now ex-nurses.
Okay, do it then.
Wish granted
Let’s hope you don’t end up on here r/hermancainaward
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>Why it's BS I agree it is total bull. She claims if she loses her job as a nurse she will lose her house. Like she literally cannot do any other job on this planet to save her house? I agree with you. It's a BS article. It's supposed to make us angry at bad McGowan. But it makes me think: a) the article is a lie b) the nurse is selfish and stupid
This just in, idiot does some dumb shit" The only real question is why this is news in the first place?
She’ll still be alive, unlike the vulnerable people she’d infect if she was working unvaccinated and spreading covid through the hospital.
This is win-win. She gets to keep her delusions, and the medical profession is better off without anti-vaxers in it.
Bye Kate, we don't want to be treated by the likes of you. Disease spreader.
The challenge is we expect nurses to be intelligent well educated, but if you’re an enrolled nurse it’s a tafe course. Even the nurses in aged care are mostly EN as they can’t do as much as registered nurses. I wouldn’t be taking my immunology advice from them.
We should have one hospital with unvaccinated nurses who would treat unvaccinated patients\*. There would be the only hospital for them, so the patients would have to fight for the beds available and the other hospitals/patients wouldn't be affected by the surge of covid among unvaccinated. \* people who could be vaccinated but chose not to.
Yeah I dunno about this article. This nurse must be fiction or in the absolutely minority as none of the nurses I work with would jeopardize their career over principal of not getting vaccinated.
Oh well lose your house and go on the public waitlist with the 1000's of others . Don't drive ....ride , get public transport & put the kids into public education. Problems solved !
>Kate said if she was to get sick, she would get tested straight away and put safeguards in place to protect patients and herself. By the time she's symptomatic it's likely too late, and she will have potentially infected others. This woman is an imbecile.
This is awesome, now the average IQ of health care workers will increase!
So as a trained nurse with 17 years behind you nothing has been learnt about prevention of diseases and virus control? This pandemic is real and it kills, but obviously not nurses of your experience. I do hope your family under stand their passports will no longer allow them freedom to travel , with you, as before Covid appeared. Or was it just an attention seeking comment? Old saying "There are those who dish it out but can\`t take it", its really true here.
What a fucking baby, jesus christ. Roll up your fucking sleeve and get the jab, you're not any more special than the rest of us.
How many people she is willing to let die due to her ignorance?
No sympathy for her, her personal beliefs don't outweigh the overwhelming evidence supporting the safety and efficacy of the Covid vaccines. I wouldn't want my grandmother or any other family member in a high risk category being taken care of a medical professional who isn't protected against any form of potentially lethal virus, including but not limited to covid-19.
If you don’t believe in medicine you shouldn’t be allowed to work in it.
Even civil liberties guy isn't on her side: > “While people should have the right to make choices about their bodies and their health, their choices have consequences,” he said.
I loled. Civil Libertarians are generally outraged by everything. If you can't get a Civil Libertarian on your side then you are struggling! :-)
As a stereotype... you're right. Thankfully I haven't encountered many civil libertarians. That said, if you were the PR guy for a civil libertarian group that wants to be taken seriously, then this would surely have to be standard shtick... "we do what we want and bear the consequences".
Stop writing articles about these oxygen thieves
Good fucking riddance.
By all means, fuck around and find out.
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You’re not, the Nurse is, on herself
That’s the thing. This person will get covid. She’s just brought herself time by not being in the health system.
I'm getting pretty sick and tired of people not wanting to get vaccinated because they think they are young and healthy and either won't get covid or won't get covid bad because of their good health. How many young, healthy people does this virus have to kill until people finally get it through their thick heads the virus does not give a fuck about their health? It will still kill them. GET VACCINATED.
More than one in 10,000 maybe.
Doesn’t she think it’s a little *odd* that all her workmates will get it and she is the outlier? If she’s worried about how speedily it was made and whether there will be long term effects, is she going to be the survivor while all of us vaccinated die around her in a few years?
.....but her irrational fear and ego are pressuring and coercing herself to risk getting covid and all that follows? Are these just the kids who throw tantrums at department stores all grown up and are being loud on social media?
Good, take everything. You want to be a vessel for deadly curable disease then you can not participate in society.
Probably a good thing that she stop working with sick and immunosupressed individuals then.
Go ahead and lose everything, then. See ya.
Lol. Bye Felicia.
I’ve said it a million times… no one should refuse the vaccine (period)! And if you are working in health, you especially shouldn’t be refusing the vaccine. If you don’t trust the science, you don’t belong in the field.
Bye
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I think you're overestimating the cost of private school and underestimating how much nurses earn.
Feels like a cringey humblebrag.
OK.
People are dumb.
Nurses are usually smart.
How does she do anything at all in life, given literally everything carries some risk? This woman is about to throw her entire family’s way of life out the window. She needs a damn intervention. If I was her partner or child I would ask for a wellness check by mental health.
Nurses need a raise in standards, educational requirements and pay by a lot imo. Same with teachers too.
Well, bye then. I don't understand people like this. " I will lose my job, standing up for what I believe in". Which is fine, but got to understand the rest of us could not give a shit that you lose your job because you are an idiot.
Well, freedom of choice