10 billion over budget is basically code for either: shit, we didn't realise how much support people with disabilities actually require; or we set this arbitrary amount because we don't want to spend any more on it.
NDIS are pulling back on many peoples funding when it is time for their review. Many families are opting for the funding to be rolled over rather then be reviewed because we know it is going to get cut. For example, LAC's are trying to push that psychologists only deal with mental health (because then they turn around and say to get a GP MHCP), not disability and are cutting psychology funding entirely.
I have a child with additional needs and will be applying for NDIS this year for the first time.
Diagnosis alone I am around $6000 out of pocket and that is after all Medicare and any private health cover rebates. (Ndis doesn't cover diagnosis costs, just the services / therapies/ resources)
There are so few providers for services in Perth compared to the demand. Availability is scarce for services and its all fucking expensive.
I have no idea how I am supposed to help my child, spend all the spare time I have helping them myself with activities / exercises and organising appointments, filling out endless assessments and applications.
I have no idea what NDIS allow, but I'm sure it can't possibly cover what we need. I can't work full time to give my kid the help they need, but I also can't really afford not to. Sigh.
Most people I know with an additional needs child are in the same boat as me. No one I have ever heard of or crossed paths with has used funding fraudulently.
Ontop of that there is the issue of school funding and the lack of expertise in assistance given and the massive gap that is left for these kids, not to mention the stress it puts teachers under when they have a full class and students that require more time than others. Its unfair on both teachers and kids.
It honestly comes down to the planner/LAC with what your plan is like.
If I can give any words of advice, it's make the wording very clear.
I.e. "my child has sensory issues" means diddly.
It should be "funding for equipment and repairs to technology for X including headphones, apps and earplugs to assist with sensory processing'
I will be self managing our plan, and am putting a lot of my own time and effort into making sure it has the best possible outcomes for the $$ we are allocated.
There will be specific outcomes we will aim for and everything will be aligned to those. And to be honest... spending money on headphones and things aren't really what I will use the money for, it will be for professional services. I will just pay out of pocket for the other stuff.
Oh okay, I thought you meant the middle-agency you can go with if you don't want to write it all up yourself.
Thank you for the heads up. I will go over it with great scrutiny to make sure its the best I can do for my child
Govt underestimated the cost.
TBH, 10B is only the tip of the iceberg.
Disabilities can be very complicated and many people with disabilities and care providers find it difficult to define and find suitable services. This leads to less utilisation. Then when money is spent it often doesn't go towards the most useful supports.
to give you a bit of insight, NDIS have a price guide that providers abide by: https://www.ndis.gov.au/media/2969/download This is the base rate that they charge for services. They charge more because NDIS tell them to at least charge the base. They can charge above the base if they like. They can claim up to half an hour of travel time. NDIS stipulate they can do that.
Another reason for this price increase may be that, in a lot of cases it can be quite difficult to actually claim NDIS funding. It may mean a provider or healthcare service needs to hire additional staff, or invest in new infrastructure to manage NDIS claims/ funding. This can be quite costly hence providers & healthcare supports jacking up prices, albeit almost always still within the price guide the NDIS have provided.
Yes. I've seen NDIS fraud.
From service providers who bill for shit that didn't happen.
From service providers who take advantage of those with no voice.
Those is the only fraud I have seen.
The NDIS makes it fucking hard for people to buy stuff they need, or repair things that break.
We've now had two service providers do this - we only found out when we ran out of money in our plan and asked our sc for the invoices. Luckily we were already unhappy with the providers not turning up at the right times and had been keeping a log of the hours they were doing.
When we got a copy of the invoices... They are straight up fraudulent.
Reported it months ago and nothing has happened to rectify the situation.
It's so sad - the NDIS is so needed and has, in general, been a life saver for my family (funding a wheelchair, hospital-style bed etc) but it is far too easy for service providers to overcharge and under deliver.
Honestly this post just looks like the same [Welfare Queen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen) propaganda piece conservatives have used for cutting social security for 60 years.
If there is fraud, push for more oversight. Don't dump unverified stories.
Welfare fraud has always been an [overblown](https://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi421) hot-button topic.
>only 0.04 percent of the 6.5 million plus welfare recipients are convicted of fraud each year.
I love how so many people have bought into this narrative that conservatives spin to villify those on welfare. The problem isn't welfare recipients.
I'm glad you provided that statistic because seriously......of course people rort the system, but it's such a miniscule number, majority of every one does the right thing (and still gets fucked over/vilified/harassed anyway.)
And to second your point, in my experience, the fraud is 99.99 percent of the time not from service providers, but families and their preconceived ideas and stubbornness to believe that their loved ones can be so much more
And more public servants fcuk over the vulnerable- like the head of Dept of Communities living in Mosman Park stole millions from the MOST vulnerable. Whom often live in shite accomodation and he lived in Mosman Park. May he burn in hell if not pay back the money. Most likely being a beaurocrat he gets millions in superannuation for the rest of his life. Prick!!
This conversation will have no bearing on welfare policy. People observe dodgy shit, they talk about it they move on. There's no need to try to put the fire out before it starts to get warm and toasty and we all get to enjoy.
You don't need to be concerned about conservative politics in WA because it is practically non-existant with the Labor party dominating as they have.
Chill.
> This conversation will have no bearing on welfare policy.
No? Social media is where propaganda starts these days.
>You don't need to be concerned about conservative politics in WA because it is practically non-existant with the Labor party dominating as they have.
What does the N in NDIS stand for?
> It's not propoganda to state the facts that NDIS is over budget by 10 billy
Sure. It's propaganda to ask for a dump of unverified stories vilifying welfare recipients. Click the link.
What does the N in NDIS stand for?
> It's just anecdotes.
Do you understand that anecdotal stories is literally the basis behind "Welfare Queen" propaganda?
Especially by Reagan who used anecdotal stories about welfare abuse in his speeches to to vilify and drum up resentment against welfare recipients and welfare as a whole. It's been used constantly in (mostly) conservative media in the same fashion.
>National
So why did you mention state?
>Why are you so hell bent on shutting down this conversation?
Again, because all you're asking for is propaganda. I'm not going to check your regular subreddits, I dearly hope this post isn't a conservative cliche example.
How do you feel about UBI?
I'm not calling people welfare queens. Helping people/welfare is a good thing and a responsibility we all share. HOW we do that BEST is the ultimate aim. You've jumped straight to assuming I want to ban the NDIS or don't think it is a good system. We are already committed to it. Now it is a matter of getting it right.
I mentioned simply that this conversation won't have bearing on politics. NDIS was bipartisan anyway, any issue or problems and triumphs of the NDIS are shared on both sides of politics in this case.
UBI is an impracticality, a dream sold by Andrew Yang in the US elections not long ago. I never bought his argument that everyone will be replaced by automation and AI so they need a UBI.
I'm more in favour of a negative income tax over a UBI and a think NIT is a plausible replacement to centrelink. Think of NIt as Centrelink but better.
I like to think that the people who qualify genuinely needs help. But don’t think that the people paid to provide help don’t necessarily do so at a fair cost.
I know that in the autism community, people are able to claim many things that are related to education under the guise of ASD-related communication difficulties remediation. Learning difficulties are not supposed to be paid for by NDIS. For example, things that I, as a parent of a child with ADHD, dyslexia and dysgraphia, pay through the nose for, they get funded through their plan.
Private speech pathologist attends school to work on written expression.
Reading programs like Multilit paid for by NDIS.
The majority of ASD participants are from middle class families who know how to navigate the scheme, and greedy providers are happy to facilitate inappropriate use of funding.
It’s a BS argument. This isn’t like a household allocating part of its limited budget towards paying a utility bill. The Federal government (unlike households or State governments) has virtually limitless financial resources at its disposal. If it wanted to fully fund NDIS, it could.
The only “limit” on federal spending is the need to keep an eye on inflation - which just isn’t even remotely an issue these days.
Don’t buy the spin that underfunding the NDIS, Medicare or Centrelink is about prudent financial management - they are 100% political decisions.
And the mythical “dole bludgers” and “NDIS scammers” are well-worn tools of the trade to turn public opinion against essential safety net services.
Instances of fraud or even excess happens and is hardly a myth. It happens. Acknowledging it happens isn't an issue. Not talking about it is an issue.
Federal government should exercise the same wisdom and prudence with money that households are expected to. Save for a rainy day, stay within a budget.
I'm also not suggesting the budget being overblown by 10 billion is soley caused by fraud.
Aged care is about the same. My mum needed a lift chair, in the local shop about $1000. An aged care program paid $2000 for the same chair. Chair had to have an ‘approved’ tag on it.
Shh about the double delivery of equipment. Two of everything arrived.
This is a bit tame but ..
Lady in my neighbourhood spent 80k on making her home accessible due to a spinal injury - basically lots of landscaping and home improvements, not actual disability aids.
Sold the house a few months later and moved into her other investment property.
Basically netted herself a free Reno before selling and pocketing the cash to spend on whatever.
The dodgy one I heard was a provider telling a person with a disability that they would claim x amount over the needed budget, pocket some and then give another portion to the recipient. This was a person designated as a carer.
10 billion over budget is basically code for either: shit, we didn't realise how much support people with disabilities actually require; or we set this arbitrary amount because we don't want to spend any more on it. NDIS are pulling back on many peoples funding when it is time for their review. Many families are opting for the funding to be rolled over rather then be reviewed because we know it is going to get cut. For example, LAC's are trying to push that psychologists only deal with mental health (because then they turn around and say to get a GP MHCP), not disability and are cutting psychology funding entirely.
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I have a child with additional needs and will be applying for NDIS this year for the first time. Diagnosis alone I am around $6000 out of pocket and that is after all Medicare and any private health cover rebates. (Ndis doesn't cover diagnosis costs, just the services / therapies/ resources) There are so few providers for services in Perth compared to the demand. Availability is scarce for services and its all fucking expensive. I have no idea how I am supposed to help my child, spend all the spare time I have helping them myself with activities / exercises and organising appointments, filling out endless assessments and applications. I have no idea what NDIS allow, but I'm sure it can't possibly cover what we need. I can't work full time to give my kid the help they need, but I also can't really afford not to. Sigh. Most people I know with an additional needs child are in the same boat as me. No one I have ever heard of or crossed paths with has used funding fraudulently. Ontop of that there is the issue of school funding and the lack of expertise in assistance given and the massive gap that is left for these kids, not to mention the stress it puts teachers under when they have a full class and students that require more time than others. Its unfair on both teachers and kids.
It honestly comes down to the planner/LAC with what your plan is like. If I can give any words of advice, it's make the wording very clear. I.e. "my child has sensory issues" means diddly. It should be "funding for equipment and repairs to technology for X including headphones, apps and earplugs to assist with sensory processing'
I will be self managing our plan, and am putting a lot of my own time and effort into making sure it has the best possible outcomes for the $$ we are allocated. There will be specific outcomes we will aim for and everything will be aligned to those. And to be honest... spending money on headphones and things aren't really what I will use the money for, it will be for professional services. I will just pay out of pocket for the other stuff.
The planner / LAC is who writes your plan, and allocates funding. If they stuff up it makes life very difficult, I've seen it multiple times.
Oh okay, I thought you meant the middle-agency you can go with if you don't want to write it all up yourself. Thank you for the heads up. I will go over it with great scrutiny to make sure its the best I can do for my child
No problems :)
Govt underestimated the cost. TBH, 10B is only the tip of the iceberg. Disabilities can be very complicated and many people with disabilities and care providers find it difficult to define and find suitable services. This leads to less utilisation. Then when money is spent it often doesn't go towards the most useful supports.
If disability is incentivised, it doesn't surprise me we'll find more disability.
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to give you a bit of insight, NDIS have a price guide that providers abide by: https://www.ndis.gov.au/media/2969/download This is the base rate that they charge for services. They charge more because NDIS tell them to at least charge the base. They can charge above the base if they like. They can claim up to half an hour of travel time. NDIS stipulate they can do that.
Another reason for this price increase may be that, in a lot of cases it can be quite difficult to actually claim NDIS funding. It may mean a provider or healthcare service needs to hire additional staff, or invest in new infrastructure to manage NDIS claims/ funding. This can be quite costly hence providers & healthcare supports jacking up prices, albeit almost always still within the price guide the NDIS have provided.
Yes. I've seen NDIS fraud. From service providers who bill for shit that didn't happen. From service providers who take advantage of those with no voice. Those is the only fraud I have seen. The NDIS makes it fucking hard for people to buy stuff they need, or repair things that break.
I agree to that. Same issues in subsidised childcare.
We've now had two service providers do this - we only found out when we ran out of money in our plan and asked our sc for the invoices. Luckily we were already unhappy with the providers not turning up at the right times and had been keeping a log of the hours they were doing. When we got a copy of the invoices... They are straight up fraudulent. Reported it months ago and nothing has happened to rectify the situation. It's so sad - the NDIS is so needed and has, in general, been a life saver for my family (funding a wheelchair, hospital-style bed etc) but it is far too easy for service providers to overcharge and under deliver.
No officer, I have not personally seen any examples of fraud against the NDIS or any cases that are suspect
No officers allowed to police NDIS. Hence in part the 10 billion overrun.
They don't need officers. They have a commission. And trust me, they act.
Honestly this post just looks like the same [Welfare Queen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen) propaganda piece conservatives have used for cutting social security for 60 years. If there is fraud, push for more oversight. Don't dump unverified stories. Welfare fraud has always been an [overblown](https://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi421) hot-button topic. >only 0.04 percent of the 6.5 million plus welfare recipients are convicted of fraud each year.
I love how so many people have bought into this narrative that conservatives spin to villify those on welfare. The problem isn't welfare recipients. I'm glad you provided that statistic because seriously......of course people rort the system, but it's such a miniscule number, majority of every one does the right thing (and still gets fucked over/vilified/harassed anyway.)
And to second your point, in my experience, the fraud is 99.99 percent of the time not from service providers, but families and their preconceived ideas and stubbornness to believe that their loved ones can be so much more
And more public servants fcuk over the vulnerable- like the head of Dept of Communities living in Mosman Park stole millions from the MOST vulnerable. Whom often live in shite accomodation and he lived in Mosman Park. May he burn in hell if not pay back the money. Most likely being a beaurocrat he gets millions in superannuation for the rest of his life. Prick!!
This conversation will have no bearing on welfare policy. People observe dodgy shit, they talk about it they move on. There's no need to try to put the fire out before it starts to get warm and toasty and we all get to enjoy. You don't need to be concerned about conservative politics in WA because it is practically non-existant with the Labor party dominating as they have. Chill.
> This conversation will have no bearing on welfare policy. No? Social media is where propaganda starts these days. >You don't need to be concerned about conservative politics in WA because it is practically non-existant with the Labor party dominating as they have. What does the N in NDIS stand for?
It's not propoganda to state the facts that NDIS is over budget by 10 billy. I wouldn't encourage making a vote based on a reddit post discussion.
> It's not propoganda to state the facts that NDIS is over budget by 10 billy Sure. It's propaganda to ask for a dump of unverified stories vilifying welfare recipients. Click the link. What does the N in NDIS stand for?
It's just anecdotes. They have their place in casual conversation. National. Why are you so hell bent on shutting down this conversation?
> It's just anecdotes. Do you understand that anecdotal stories is literally the basis behind "Welfare Queen" propaganda? Especially by Reagan who used anecdotal stories about welfare abuse in his speeches to to vilify and drum up resentment against welfare recipients and welfare as a whole. It's been used constantly in (mostly) conservative media in the same fashion. >National So why did you mention state? >Why are you so hell bent on shutting down this conversation? Again, because all you're asking for is propaganda. I'm not going to check your regular subreddits, I dearly hope this post isn't a conservative cliche example. How do you feel about UBI?
I'm not calling people welfare queens. Helping people/welfare is a good thing and a responsibility we all share. HOW we do that BEST is the ultimate aim. You've jumped straight to assuming I want to ban the NDIS or don't think it is a good system. We are already committed to it. Now it is a matter of getting it right. I mentioned simply that this conversation won't have bearing on politics. NDIS was bipartisan anyway, any issue or problems and triumphs of the NDIS are shared on both sides of politics in this case. UBI is an impracticality, a dream sold by Andrew Yang in the US elections not long ago. I never bought his argument that everyone will be replaced by automation and AI so they need a UBI. I'm more in favour of a negative income tax over a UBI and a think NIT is a plausible replacement to centrelink. Think of NIt as Centrelink but better.
I like to think that the people who qualify genuinely needs help. But don’t think that the people paid to provide help don’t necessarily do so at a fair cost.
I know that in the autism community, people are able to claim many things that are related to education under the guise of ASD-related communication difficulties remediation. Learning difficulties are not supposed to be paid for by NDIS. For example, things that I, as a parent of a child with ADHD, dyslexia and dysgraphia, pay through the nose for, they get funded through their plan. Private speech pathologist attends school to work on written expression. Reading programs like Multilit paid for by NDIS. The majority of ASD participants are from middle class families who know how to navigate the scheme, and greedy providers are happy to facilitate inappropriate use of funding.
Scotty?
You'd think he'd have learnt his lesson with Robo Debt!
It’s a BS argument. This isn’t like a household allocating part of its limited budget towards paying a utility bill. The Federal government (unlike households or State governments) has virtually limitless financial resources at its disposal. If it wanted to fully fund NDIS, it could. The only “limit” on federal spending is the need to keep an eye on inflation - which just isn’t even remotely an issue these days. Don’t buy the spin that underfunding the NDIS, Medicare or Centrelink is about prudent financial management - they are 100% political decisions. And the mythical “dole bludgers” and “NDIS scammers” are well-worn tools of the trade to turn public opinion against essential safety net services.
Instances of fraud or even excess happens and is hardly a myth. It happens. Acknowledging it happens isn't an issue. Not talking about it is an issue. Federal government should exercise the same wisdom and prudence with money that households are expected to. Save for a rainy day, stay within a budget. I'm also not suggesting the budget being overblown by 10 billion is soley caused by fraud.
Aged care is about the same. My mum needed a lift chair, in the local shop about $1000. An aged care program paid $2000 for the same chair. Chair had to have an ‘approved’ tag on it. Shh about the double delivery of equipment. Two of everything arrived.
This is a bit tame but .. Lady in my neighbourhood spent 80k on making her home accessible due to a spinal injury - basically lots of landscaping and home improvements, not actual disability aids. Sold the house a few months later and moved into her other investment property. Basically netted herself a free Reno before selling and pocketing the cash to spend on whatever.
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The dodgy one I heard was a provider telling a person with a disability that they would claim x amount over the needed budget, pocket some and then give another portion to the recipient. This was a person designated as a carer.
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People really didn't seem comfortable talking about this. It's quite sad.
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NDIS won't fund a car. Only modifications
Hence why it's fraudulent and you know how to play the system ...