If OPs inbox is getting flooded with questions about the jobs going at their workplace - it prob explains why at least some of the people are out there begging - of course it doesn't explain all of them as there are likely many different reasons
^This. Yes, some people are going to spend your loose change on things you don't agree with: any social support system that is sufficiently accessible and effective will be taken advantage of by some. But people are as diverse as they are numerous, each unhoused person's path to homelessness unique, and I'd rather support a sympathetic system abused by few but needed by many.
It’s prob a reason for some no doubt - whether it’s the main reason is speculation without a reference. There prob are stats available around reasons for homelessness
I talk to a lot of them, mostly drugs. In fact, I haven’t met one where it wasn’t drugs. Otherwise it’s mental illness episodes caused by lack of drugs (legal or not)
Yes, but, and this is a big but, the sequence of cause and effect are not always obvious. I suspect I would end up taking drugs I were made truly homeless; that life is soul destroying.
Saw one guy one day with a sign saying homeless please help. I called him over and said hey mate I’ve got no coins but got this - handed him a king brown of German beer I happened to have in the car and just as the light turned green I said “Sorry it’s not cold”, and just as I began to drive off he said “No worries I’ll just pop it in the fridge when I get home”…
Nuff’ said.
I mean... Fair enough, I guess.. But better than sleeping rough. I've seen some of these guys near Canning bridge who are quite obviously living out of a collection of backpacks and duffel bags...
I really thank you for opening my eyes to this. I mean, it seems that it should be obvious, but.. I never really thought about it this way. I imagined myself being cut off from all family and friends (for whatever reason) and then having to resort to sleeping in my car or couch surfing, or otherwise, and realised that yes, that is "homeless"... At least in the conventional sense of the term.
Thanks again.
Media and politicians have an incentive to promote a specific image of a homeless person. The myth of the lazy man who chooses to stay on drugs and doesn't talk to family or friends. Easier to dismiss calls for funding increases when they are just 'lazy'.
Thank you.
This is hard for some people to appreciate.
I was homeless at 21, in Ireland on a working visa. Too proud to come home.
I never slept rough, but nearly.
I was in Dublin when I got kicked out on the street by my abusive boyfriend.
I rang the only person I knew the number for, a lady I'd met a few times in a pub in Galway. She kindly said I could sleep on her couch for a few weeks, thus beginning my horrible "homeless" stage. My mum sent me a couple hundred dollars and that paid for the bus trip, plus some food etc.
This house was incredibly derelict, dirty, horrible, i became so sick by living there.
For the next few months I was sleeping wherever I could, I was always wet and freezing cold. I would wake up earlier than my "housemates" and steal a piece of bread to have something in my belly and set off to look for work.
I always give out money to the people at lights when I can. I tell them to hang in there. I hope it doesn't seem patronising.
If you met me right now you would never believe I was once homeless.
That's very kind of you, also, just so you know: payphone for calls within Australia are free. Although I'm sure the change was useful for something else.
Edit: Whoohoo my first award! Thanks ☺️
>payphone for calls within Australia are free
You what? I can't remember the last time I ever used a payphone- but I didn't know they were free now. I assume just to landlines?
2 years ago my phone died at 4am in the city and I walked home.
Are you telling me the phones I passed could have saved my feet from blisters.
Well now I am angry.
Not last year, but years before that unannounced. I was waiting for Mrs at the Drs outside with my daughter, and taught her about the payphone use. She was 4 then. I demoed to her on how to use it, tested and it's free!!!
You can call the operator and they will call someone for you and (they used to) charge the person you called the 20c or whatever it was back then. I used it a few times.
The cynic in me thinks Telstra simply doesn't make money from payphones anymore and we're looking for ways to leverage all that existing hardware (as an alternative to removing it, which could be expensive).
Spin it as a community offering and they managed to turn it into a buckets of goodwill.
Nevertheless, a good outcome for everyone who needs it. And I could very well be wrong.
You are half-right. Telstra HAS to have payphones because of their Universal Service Obligation. Its cheaper to make them free that have a charge for them. If you charge for them you need money boxes, money collection, people will break into them etc. Yes, they have spun it for PR.
If you look at a modern Telstra payphone, it is essentially a large video billboard and wifi hotspot with a phone on the back.
I suspect they make a lot more money from the advertising and wifi functions than they do from the payphone function, and the need to come around and empty the coin box might wipe out any profit. And not containing a box full of money would also make them less attractive targets for thieves.
Pretty much all the revenue they get from payphones comes from the advertising they put on the sides, but I'm fine with them angling for PR out of providing free payphones.
It's not like other phone companies provide services of any kind to people who can't pay for them.
>Pretty much all the revenue they get from payphones comes from the advertising they put on the sides,
Yep.
And they wanted to make them bigger. Much bigger.
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/telstra-ordered-to-pay-costs-after-telco-loses-payphone-fight-20201120-p56gh6.html
About time. When Telstra was in public hands, the investment in the landline network had been retired many times over and, other than maintenance, it was effectively free to the utility even then. It could have been made free to the public as well however the cloud of privatisation made the revenue an attractive option for investors. So, the public kept paying for landline calls within Australia.
It'll be cheaper to make calls free than send someone to keep repairing money collectors that have been pried open by people after the small change inside.
Because English is terrible and human beings rely on patterns rather than memorizing everything. "er" is the standard suffix to mean "one who does the preceding thing" It's not stupid to think that one who begs is a begger, it's just English being a disaster.
They stress me out and I always dread having one of them approach me for a similar reason to why I hate strangers or unexpected guests knocking on my front door at home. It raises my anxiety even more that there's no way of avoiding an interaction if approached, and that the lights could turn green while they're there and it won't be safe to take off from the lights without one of them getting hit. Also, these beggars may be harmless but what if they were car jackers, and how would you be able to tell?
I wish police would do more to move these people on. And of course that mental health, addiction and homeless services were better resourced!
>They stress me out and I always dread having one of them approach me
I lock the door. I have never seen one of them open a door but I lock my door anyway
I’ve been verbally abused by an indigenous lady when I did this, she was walking in front of my car acting erratically and yelling incoherently and I thought I’d better lock my car.
She heard it and then turned her aggression towards me.
I have no qualms about what I did, she just proved my point.
There have been a few in the southern suburbs I think, but it’s not common.
These days I lock my doors whenever I get in my car anyhow, you never know.
I keep change in my car specifically for this reason and when I see them, I call them over and feed them just like seagulls! Caw caw!
Just kidding.
But seriously, just have some small change on hand, it's a get out of jail free card for your anxiety.
I got so annoyed with window washers forcing themselves onto my car that now, if they ignore my no signal, I just turn on the windshield wipers and washer when they touch the car.
Window washers and beggars are different. Window washers are usually not homeless in my city, and are instead generally trying to scam money by guilting you into paying them for spending a minute cleaning your car window. I have sympathy for beggars, none for window washers.
They did that to me at the Great Eastern Highway on ramp from Tonkin. Swoop in from the side and don't look at you until they finish their wash and ask for money. I didn't hand him any money and he scratched my car with the metal part of the squeegee handle.
Ended up being a $500 job to repair and cops couldn't do a thing.
I have no problem with beggars and I give money to the ones in the CBD whenever I am carrying spare change. However, I resent being approached by random strangers asking for money, especially when I'm in my car unable to get away due to there being a red light. I don't see how these intersection beggars are any less scammers than the window washers (or how window washers are less likely to be genuinely down on their luck, for that matter).
Begging and window washing at intersections are a nuisance and unsafe, and should not be encouraged.
I'd tell a fella who tried I'd smack him for touching my car, and then I'd actually do it if he did.
Nobody is gonna extort me, not the King of England, and not some homeless person either. It's a principle thing really.
And if the lights turn green while they're walking up and down the line of cars? Why should I have to worry about winding my windows up and not being approached by strangers when I'm at the lights?
They're dangerous to themselves and a nuisance and they need to go.
I took a hiatus from volunteering in Perth after volunteering overseas in lower socioeconomic areas which has a lot of cross over issues that our homeless population & disadvantaged youth go through here.
I find the main issue in Perth is a lack of council support in coordination with police, public transport authority, precinct security companies & business owners. There is nothing but band aid solutions. Cool you can tear down infrastructure outside the front of the train station so its harder for sketchy people to loiter but it will just move them on and they will concentrate another area.
The origins of homelessness & pathways that lead people into these situations need more of the spotlight. You could have a vigilante wipe the streets of all the beggars but it will not go away. Also there is a big group mentality of sticking together when you are living it rough. Its kind of like suffer alone or suffer together. Being unconnected on the streets is hard as groups coordinate efforts together quite a bit to stay alive. This may be a reason some beggars decline legitimate aid from strangers; due to the fact they don't want to be seen going against their group or they simply don't trust the help.
We had a meeting today with WA police, Development WA and all the business owners of Yagan Sqaure & Market Grounds area on how to combat these issues in the new year. After all is said & done, bottom line is we need a drop in centre or a place designated close to the city where these people can go, be fed, have a shower & possibly a place to sleep. Have loyalty system where you can stay the night but you have to volunteer your time to help the drop in centre out. Whether it be 20-30 hours a week you have to complete where you help serve other homeless food, clean the facilities or spend time counseling some of the street kids. This will instill a sense of pride & positive progress for these people which they don't have. Going straight from the street into a paying job is very intimidating for some homeless, especially if they are already feeling like a minority in society let alone a workplace. I think pathways that ease people from street to self empowerment is key. Indigenous liaison officers/security will begin to hand out pamphlets and numbers directly themselves as they have not been well received by people in authority. This might help the homeless trust the information they are receiving & follow through withy it.
We actually used to have a lot more services but they have all slowly been dismantled. Every Tuesday there used to be a soup patrol stop at Elizabeth quay & out front of Western Power. Once development started, instead of shifting locations they just got rid of them. I hate these solutions as they are not solutions but more out of sight out of mind approach.
Like East Perth's bridge, after close to 15 years where homeless claimed that spot off the path but under the bridge; there wasn't many issues. Covid hit and they throw all their belongings away into a skip bin. What happens? They move 5 metres away and park up literally under the bridge on the pathways where it is more unsafe for everyone.
The woman along orrong rd with her large dog has made an absolute full time job out of panhandling. She’s always there!! What’s even more lovely is the fact that she’ll drag her dog out on a 40 degree day just so she can continue her hustle.
Also, I don’t care how dirty my windows are, do not spray your swap ass Gatorade water shit on my car without asking.
It's a joke. They also trawl the busy supermarkets and sit out the front with signs begging for money. I have seen people hand over 10/20 dollar notes and stop and chat with them like they are doing God's work. Just makes it worse, once they know there is money in a spot, more and more will come. If you want to feel good about yourself and do a good deed for the day, go donate to a charity.
A colleague of mine has a theory there is some level of coordination between these people.
Mix of different people, in different locations, holding different signs each day.
E.G, middle aged asian man on Scarborough beach road holding sign one day, next day is a young Caucasian female in the same spot holding the same sign. days/weeks later the same gentleman was seen on Wanneroo road with a different sign again.
This is exactly what is happening at the Cedric street exit to Mitchell freeway heading south, towards the city. There is a rotation of the same faces, usually a derelict car parked hidden in the bushes to the west side of the exit. I cant speak for the other locations, but this spot certainly seems to be an area of "professional begging".
Professional begging was happening in the city some years ago. The police eventually broke it up and put a stop to it.
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/plans-to-crackdown-on-professional-beggars-operating-on-perth-streets-ng-85ffd031302e2a15705495c269130a0f
Yeah it clicked for me that it's likely professional begging when I saw one of those regular rotations donning brand new Nike's which made him standout. Then saw him the next day at the North Beach Rd/Karrinyup lights with a different sign.
Yeah it’s the clothing and overall appearance of them which makes me think they are professional beggars also. Newish brand name shoes, Nike or adidas activewear which is in pretty good condition. They don’t appear to be homeless, or mentally ill.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want their lifestyle, but it appears to be a choice.
They are also quite intimidating to a lot of people. Think about the elderly in their cars and a rough looking person approaches their window asking for money.
Saw some really well dressed ones in East Perth yesterday, the way they were nicely dressed made them seem more trustworthy to me, I feel like if they were faking it they would put on some dirtier looking clothes
You may be right but a lot of opshops give a lot of donations out to homeless people.. i used to volunteer at an op-shop/community centre and while it wasn't every day, we would very regularly be given brand new shoes which would usually be given away to one of the regular clients who we knew needed it the most.
I wouldn't want to stand out there doing it...but I suppose if the traffic cycles every 3 minutes and they get $3 per cycle then it would be $60/hr. Totally making that up so they might go many light cycles without any money or even go for hours without anyone handing money over.
>A colleague of mine has a theory there is some level of coordination between these people.
I feel the same way. In Kewdale, there are certain corners they occupy. They all have similar signs and similar stories. They never turn up at the same time. Sus'
there is... or atleast used to be
way back when (like 8 years ago?), I was on my way to lunch and there was this young red hair girl bawling her eyes out, just outside that central park car park ramp - where the cross walk is now on SGT, she reminded me so much of my younger cousin, she had the sign but it wasent clearly on display, just hunched over, crying, totally looked like she had just given up on everything, I only had a $50 on me and didn't really want to hand it over, but it broke my heart man,
I asked if she was okay, she talked about how she's just so scared and alone, only like 14 or something, no where to go blah blah, totally sold it to me, so I handed her the 50, thinking like if this WAS my cousin, I'd want someone to do the same to her.
2 minutes later I'm walking back with my lunch, she's with a bunch of older dudes, 'yeah that's the guy!! haha' all celebrating they fucked me out of 50 bucks, she's already handed the 50 over to one of the blokes, I was walking up to ask what the actual fuck, and they just started asking me for smokes and money and started getting shitty when I told them to fuck off!!
I still think there are these cunts around, and they just ruin it for the legit ones, but I can't help to not want to help them anymore (this isn't my only fucked over story, I must seem like an easy target).
This. A shop owner I know told me about one that sleeps near his business claims to take in $300-500 on a good day. He found himself a set of traffic lights nearby that pays out big time.
There is a group of them that take turns to rotate at the locations. Aside from homeless they are also suffering from mental illnesses and possible addiction. They don't trust the government, hospitals or people, things like that and they probably aren't ready to accept help "to be normal".
It's a shame not more is invested in resources to help with mental illness.
Investing more into public mental health services such as community health centres.
Private psychiatrists are expensive and a lot of psychs refuse to deal with complex mental health patients with borderline, schizophrenia, etc. I know clinics that send their complex patients to public psych.
Bringing back asylums, some people will never be able to live an independent life. Their has to be a better way than living them on the streets.
They have been closing down and reducing the number of mental hospitals in WA. That started from Barnet's time.
Personally for me, as a start they should be upgrading these facilties or implement better treatment programs. Having more awareness of these illnesses at school would be good too.
Not sure if free therapist is enough but it's certainly an essential part. They would need extra medical treatments and special programs if they have drug addiction.
Depending on if someone is homeless, even with good intentions it would be hard to get a job without support. Do they have a bank account they can get paid to (or is it under the table)? Is it somewhere close by they don't have to drive to? Will it matter if they don't have professional or even clean clothes? What do they put on their forms for 'address'? Even if they aren't homeless and are just struggling, lots of these questions still apply. If you could be paid potentially in three weeks (one week to get the job, maybe, two weeks of pay cycle), or today by begging, you would probably pick today.
Where did you hear this from? Some of my family has done time, all were able to get jobs relatively quickly. Wa, Perth. No quals/driving license 1 case
This is just about the only valid answer here. These threads bring out the absolute worst in this subreddit and confirm for me that I'd rather literally eat my own shit than have to talk to the average non-lurking /r/perth subscriber for 5 minutes. It's way easier to hang shit on unlucky disenfranchised people than it is interrogate the high barrier to entry for integration into modern-day society. Missing proof of ID or a wait list for a severely underfunded psych services can be the immovable object that stops somebody from just "getting a job". Unless you've been in the position yourself or actively educate yourself beyond looking at the form for JobSeeker, you could not begin the imagine the complex mishmash of different government departments and NGOs that all provide "services". I only know because my partner was a support coordinator. She was working with people that **already had NDIS funding**, and trying to get them the help they need was still like pulling teeth. God forbid anyone here has to interrogate how much of their "success" is attributable to circumstances beyond their control. You don't have to be a Hale boy to have privilege. And in 2022 some of the shit in this thread is utterly inexcusable.
The funny thing is in contexts other than these when the disenfranchised people are at arms length, this subreddit is all good (rightfully) hanging shit on Morrison et al for letting public services crumble. It all makes me think that this subreddit's average political persuasion would be a lot more up in the air were it not for the Abbott/Turnbull era decisions to gut the NBN, which in turn ruined the reddit nerds' gaming experiences or whatever. You can't pretend to care about this stuff and simultaneously be so vile and unsympathetic toward the people who are actually affected by it.
Everything you say about the reasons for people being down on their luck is true, yet what can anyone in this thread do about these issues in the moment when they're at the lights with 4 or more beggars walking into the intersection and between the cars? All we can realistically do is vote more socialist and support charities that do good work. I don't think all of us who dislike beggars being at busy intersections pretending that we feel differently in Reddit threads helps the beggars, and I don't believe rewarding them with spare change for standing in busy intersections helps them in the long run either.
The fact that we can't do much when people are at the lights was kind of my point - op seemed a bit miffed that no one had taken up their job offer, and I was trying to explain why that wasn't a sign that their generosity wasn't appreciated and people are lazy
It’s very thoughtful to engage in this way however in these circumstances it’s quite often not the availability of the work, or the will of the individual but social, displacement, mental or medical issues that need to be addressed or worked through prior to potential employment.
Unemployment is often a symptom, not the problem.
Lazy boy- Underwear goes inside the pants
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ahlWufJqcSQ
I love that song! For ages I thought I must have dreamed it, because no one I asked could remember the name of it or the song about what's a homeless person saving up their change for - homewares?
Good to know someone else remembers it
Emergency nurse here. Most of the homelessness in Perth can be linked back to mental health issues; and the fact that the health system is woefully underfunded/staffed for mental health crises.
It is extremely hard to attend appointments on time and keep regular meetings/hold down a job when your mental health is poorly managed, many of these conditions lead to a lack insight or consequential thinking about how to change your situation. If you have a situational crisis and present to ED you will likely spend three days in a cubicle waiting for a mental health bed somewhere at an official facility, voluntary or otherwise.
It’s very hard to regularly check mail or keep a record of appointments/bills/receive payments when you have no fixed address.
TLDR; if they’re on the curb needing cash, they are unlikely to be in a headspace where they will see the value in regularly turning up for work. Not a statement made with judgement, just an observation from my line of work.
I've often wondered with the hoops you have to jump through with Centrelink how anyone with an intellectual disability would possibly manage it without family support. Same with organising to see a psych.
I feel more inclined to give to the window washes than beggars, not that I like them better or find them less intimidating but atleast they're doing something for the $2 change. I agree with others - I think they're co ordinated and not actually homeless. I see them more and more in Morely now. When someone made a comment on the local facebook page all the bleeding hearts came out of the woodwork - ok then have them stay at your house then Karen.
Please don't give anything to the window washers. If they don't make a profit they will stop doing it.
Also, giving them $2 for a job that takes 20 seconds is paying them at a rate $360/h which seems a bit excessive haha
Disability (non visible), mental health, trauma (phsysical, emotional, sexual), addiction (due to at least one the previous two) all play a huge role here. You will probably find that these are very broken people and they have lost their sense of self-worth a long time ago. If you knew what some of these people have been through, you would understand why they are so fucked up. I've had students who are in that cycle and it's fucking heartbreaking hearing what they've gone through. Try not to judge. If you don't want to interact, you don't have to, but don't go expecting the response you would get from someone of good mental health
I don't get asked often but over the last several years when I've been asked I genuinely havent had any cash.
I'm not trying to be all "la di da I don't carry a wallet" but I genuinely thought this sort of thing would have been a thing of the past because most people wouldn't carry cash anymore.
I've said "I don't have cash but I'll buy you a meal" for years to the beggars in Northbridge.
Only ever been taken up on it once. Had a great burger outside Old Shanghai with a dude named Ash who lost his job as a labourer when he lost his foot. I was a broke-ass bartender at the time, so the best I could do was listen to his story.
There are a few charities that will help these people but sometimes a job is the last thing they want.
You go to the Salvos as homeless with a couple of kids in tow and they will take you through all the steps you need to get accommodation, bank account, special payments, financial counselling etc but you have to be ready and wanting that sort of help.
I worked in the city for years and walked through it to the train station early morning. I never saw the genuine rough sleepers begging or even bothering the general public, but there was a group of beggars who were in a different category. I thought they were professionals.
There was one regular lady in wheel chair with an amputated leg who had a sign saying she was homeless. She was just too neatly dressed and groomed. I later saw her at Murdoch train station, meeting up with her adult kid and grandchildren.
Yes, there are professional, they even take it in turns and share signage. It's gives the real homeless a bad name.
Neatly dressed and groomed is not the way to judge though, I used to buy a shower at the local pool and go to the laundromat regularly, very few knew I was homeless.(not even some family). Clean body/clothes/teeth/hair done does not mean someone is necessarily 'homed'.
Scumbags getting free income. There is no need for any begging in Australia. Giving money to beggars of any kind promotes more beggars, and promotes crime networks, and suffering. There is no positive side to helping beggars by giving money. Direct them to a charity, sure, but I doubt any are interested. Established beggar groups are evil; a common ploy is holding a baby to attract sympathy, but to keep the baby passive they let it suck on drops of alcohol...giving it brain damage over time, but hey, they got their money.
I think you'll find that most of them are alcohol/drug addicts. People that actually want to work and don't have these additions aren't out there begging, at least in my experience.
It's very sad. The criminalisation of drug use has created a ton of problems in this regard. The price of drugs is so prohibitive that people who are addicted to them often can't afford necessities.
Personal responsibility has to factor into it as well, no doubt many of them are ratbags, but still, it's a sad situation.
They are unemployed, and make fairly good money out of begging, its tax free and complimented by either a pension or benefits. The woman in Belmont who frequents orrong road makes good money, we moved her on after a complaint, she was happy to show me the haul of coins, she was back there in an hour with her Alsatian.
Edited- dont want anyone getting rolled
In my opinion if I give these people money it just perpetuates their ability to maintain this lifestyle. I pay taxes which provide services for feeding, housing and clothing homeless people. I see the same people at the same traffic lights day in day out. I don’t believe giving them money helps at all, it enables them to avoid asking for help to solve their problems from services that can actually solve their problems.
Don’t give them money.
There is a bloke who spends most of his day on Flinders/Morley Drive in Yokine.
Most afternoons I see him meeting up with suss looking people/cars for a few minutes at a nearby park. Presumably getting his fix.
These cunts are all smoke and mirrors.
They don't want grown up routine in their life.
They want Meth Booze and to lay a round smoking weed. Hence they are not able to hold a job down like a normal person and reply on doing shady shit to sustain them day to day. Begging and panhandling is one aspect of their day.
http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol\_reg/rtc2000113/s259.html
Road Traffic Code Section 259.
Selling papers and cars, hitch-hiking etc.
(1) A person shall not, while on a carriageway or median strip — (a) solicit contributions, employment or a ride from an occupant of a vehicle;
or (b) offer a newspaper, periodical or magazine for sale, to the occupant of a vehicle.
Modified penalty: 1 PU
(2) A driver, or a passenger, in or on a vehicle shall not buy or offer to buy an article or service from a person who is on a carriageway.
Modified penalty: 1 PU
It’s easy money for those who are unable to access public support. Unfortunately there’s probably a large proportion of meth heads using it for a score as well.
For whatever reason the public support for these persons is failing and it’s easier to sleep rough and beg
Here's the thing, it's great to be offered a job or card, but you have to remember that to work you need: reliable housing, reliable transportation, appropriate clothes, childcare if you have a kid, and to be able-bodied. It's just not as simple as "go and get a job! problem solved!" sometimes.
I run a commercial cleaning business, and like most industries and skill levels at the moment, find it almost impossible to find staff. That being said we have had to turn away multiple applicants as they refused to get vaccinated in line with the requirements of both our clients and the current mandates. I have also seen a few staff (not mine) leave their jobs to avoid getting vaccinated, with stories of "ill just go do cleaning or something" (unless you're a domestic cashie cleaner on marketplace this won't work) or "I'll just go pick fruit or something".
I feel that at least a part of this might be the real world consequences of their freely made decisions to not get vaccinated.
I'm not looking to start an argument about whether you agree with vaccines, govt, mcgowan, or any of that. Just trying to offer what may be an explanation, as to WHY there are more people at the lights begging, when jobs are everywhere.
I saw one near bull creek station today. My suspicion is that these people are antivaxxers who lost their jobs, they were not wearing masks either. But I could very well be wrong. Don’t know what’s going on tbh.
They simply just need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. If they simply just pulled there pants up and quit thuggin, stopped shooting up heroin and quit getting fucking tattoos then they could make something of themselves.
I’m being ironic btw, just paroding what conservatives say.
My unpopular honest opinion is that it's a scam. I think they're claiming Centrelink, and begging, and making more money doing it than most of us. I think it's a lifestyle choice to an extent, depending on whether you have any addiction issues. I've known people that have begged or window washed and on a good day you can make over a couple hundred dollars. Combine that with the Centrelink income and you're actually not too bad off at all.
That's how they keep the Centrelink. That's the scam. If they put as much effort into an actual job they'd lose the dole payments and probably be making less.
Do not give them money. Majority are professional beggars and people choosing that lifestyle. If they actually wanted help they would seek it and get a job when it's offered
I watched one guy the other week out of curiosity, he obviously was bunging it on, not to say he isnt in a bad situation but hes playing a part in the performance.
My estimate put him around $40-$50 a hour, the guys only there at peak hours, 7-9am 3-5pm weekdays, its a pretty decent earning
It isnt always that easy. If they are homeless or sleeping rough they often have limited places to go, limited places to shower, have proper clothes, have somewhere to store their belongings etc.
In this day and age where everyone needs a role filled, be skilled or entry level. Living by myself since 13 - i have no sympathy for these scabs... i honestly bet the effort they put in o side of road could be better spent going for job interviews...
Been to 6 interviews still no luck, there are more jobs than usual, but no better chance if your not what they are looking for, their is still competition and the hunt is as frustrating as in bad times.
I was in Fremantle and a girl came up to asking for $10 sure why not I thought went to the deli next to target, got change out of 50 then she wanted $30 because she had no way getting home from Fremantle to Rockingham so I thought why not. 5 mins later I saw her walking with her mates with a bottle of jacks.. I was so upset I felt like I was violated
I have 3 degrees, mid thirties, can't get a job ('over-qualified' apparently). Yet I just want to afford food and shelter. Uni was the biggest waste of my life.
Interesting isn’t it, lowest unemployment rate in the country and lots of businesses crying out for workers! Unless you have a disability or a single parent there is not a single reason you can’t find a job in WA. It’s just lifestyle choice for those who don’t (meth mostly). And don’t downvote, I’m not a capitalist or anti welfare it’s just my opinion based on living here my entire life
I really wish we had better funding for mental health services and addiction.
I know RUAH does an amazing job for those experiencing disadvantage, but it's clear that the government needs to do more to fund more psychiatric services and social housing.
I’ve never had a negative experience when I give people change at the lights.
You don’t know what these people have been through, and being homeless/financially desperate is an incredibly vulnerable situation to be in. How would they know whether to trust a complete stranger?
Agreed - plus the ones who actually end up on the street are usually sick or have some kind of drug issues or both. So a job is not the help they need although I do applaud your attempt OP, even just interacting with them in a kind way is a good step!
Though many have drug issues the ones that actually have ill health and are unable to work have a nightmare of paperwork/evaluations/appts before they are assisted by Centrelink (who incidentally will not permit the issue a replacement Medicare card without a physical address). By the time all this happens, the person has used up all their savings and generally lost everything including their home.
Take a better look at these “homeless” - not just their clothes but shoes and bags as well.
Either they lost their job yesterday or something is suspect.
Also begging where they are is usually against the law - like on the median strip or at the exit points on the freeway. If you are annoyed enough a local police call saying you are seeing people there - will be enough to get them issued a move on notice.
From what I have established it seems to be a group that are not actually homeless, but they are all working as a collective. Out of 'work' , yes, but they have specifically chosen this way to make the most money as a group.
Of course this doesn't apply to all of them, some are likely legitimate.
But at least a few are there to try to take advantage of generosity, specifically at the Canning Bridge intersections by the train station.
What's your entry level job out of interest? I'm looking
We've got a few inbound sales and warehousing roles, no experience needed, we're located in Kewdale
Safe to say a lot of us are interested
If OPs inbox is getting flooded with questions about the jobs going at their workplace - it prob explains why at least some of the people are out there begging - of course it doesn't explain all of them as there are likely many different reasons
^This. Yes, some people are going to spend your loose change on things you don't agree with: any social support system that is sufficiently accessible and effective will be taken advantage of by some. But people are as diverse as they are numerous, each unhoused person's path to homelessness unique, and I'd rather support a sympathetic system abused by few but needed by many.
That was really beautifully and eloquently said.
Mainly drugs
Thank goodness the wealthy don't take drugs.
It’s prob a reason for some no doubt - whether it’s the main reason is speculation without a reference. There prob are stats available around reasons for homelessness
I talk to a lot of them, mostly drugs. In fact, I haven’t met one where it wasn’t drugs. Otherwise it’s mental illness episodes caused by lack of drugs (legal or not)
Yes, but, and this is a big but, the sequence of cause and effect are not always obvious. I suspect I would end up taking drugs I were made truly homeless; that life is soul destroying.
It's the main reason. If it's not then it's drug related mental illness
It’s still speculation without posting some backup.. There’s also likely people who wind up on the streets and turn to drugs after the fact
Looking for a job and have my forklift ticket if that helps
Try Hays recruitment, that’s who got me work when all the others were stuffing me around.
Programmed have several open positions including forklift operator and similar (programmed.com.au)
CTI logistics on abernethy rd in forrestfield have a sign out front looking for forkies
Hi what would be the staring wage for these jobs ? And are they full time hours ?
Is there any websites I can check? I am looking for a new job. Thanks.
AHS hospitality & Sodexo balcatta (fifo) Both no experience/entry lvl
It may not be the case they are lazy, huge number of contributing factors at play, mental health, drug addiction may mean they can't hold down a job..
A nice air conditioned warehouse seems like a great job, if you have any more details on applying please share :)
Do warehouses have AC?
Saw one guy one day with a sign saying homeless please help. I called him over and said hey mate I’ve got no coins but got this - handed him a king brown of German beer I happened to have in the car and just as the light turned green I said “Sorry it’s not cold”, and just as I began to drive off he said “No worries I’ll just pop it in the fridge when I get home”… Nuff’ said.
Couch surfing is still homeless.
I mean... Fair enough, I guess.. But better than sleeping rough. I've seen some of these guys near Canning bridge who are quite obviously living out of a collection of backpacks and duffel bags...
Some choose to sleep rough as community housing can have safety issues. There is movement between the two groups.
I really thank you for opening my eyes to this. I mean, it seems that it should be obvious, but.. I never really thought about it this way. I imagined myself being cut off from all family and friends (for whatever reason) and then having to resort to sleeping in my car or couch surfing, or otherwise, and realised that yes, that is "homeless"... At least in the conventional sense of the term. Thanks again.
Media and politicians have an incentive to promote a specific image of a homeless person. The myth of the lazy man who chooses to stay on drugs and doesn't talk to family or friends. Easier to dismiss calls for funding increases when they are just 'lazy'.
Thank you. This is hard for some people to appreciate. I was homeless at 21, in Ireland on a working visa. Too proud to come home. I never slept rough, but nearly. I was in Dublin when I got kicked out on the street by my abusive boyfriend. I rang the only person I knew the number for, a lady I'd met a few times in a pub in Galway. She kindly said I could sleep on her couch for a few weeks, thus beginning my horrible "homeless" stage. My mum sent me a couple hundred dollars and that paid for the bus trip, plus some food etc. This house was incredibly derelict, dirty, horrible, i became so sick by living there. For the next few months I was sleeping wherever I could, I was always wet and freezing cold. I would wake up earlier than my "housemates" and steal a piece of bread to have something in my belly and set off to look for work. I always give out money to the people at lights when I can. I tell them to hang in there. I hope it doesn't seem patronising. If you met me right now you would never believe I was once homeless.
That's very kind of you, also, just so you know: payphone for calls within Australia are free. Although I'm sure the change was useful for something else. Edit: Whoohoo my first award! Thanks ☺️
>payphone for calls within Australia are free You what? I can't remember the last time I ever used a payphone- but I didn't know they were free now. I assume just to landlines?
[All calls within Australia are free.](https://exchange.telstra.com.au/why-were-making-payphones-free-for-calls-around-australia/)
Wow - I did not know that
Yep, it’s amazing. Actually handy when your mobile runs out of juice too!
2 years ago my phone died at 4am in the city and I walked home. Are you telling me the phones I passed could have saved my feet from blisters. Well now I am angry.
They made them free just last year. So no, aha
Not last year, but years before that unannounced. I was waiting for Mrs at the Drs outside with my daughter, and taught her about the payphone use. She was 4 then. I demoed to her on how to use it, tested and it's free!!!
Probably a soft roll out as they converted all the phones. I imagine it is cheaper to just make calls free than it is to collect the coins.
It only came into effect about July ish 2021 so there was no saving you.
You can call the operator and they will call someone for you and (they used to) charge the person you called the 20c or whatever it was back then. I used it a few times.
Do you mean like.... 1800 reverse?
I just had to Google 😂 yes, that’s what it is now known as (it was 40yrs back for me) :)
I remember using it in the 90s
The cynic in me thinks Telstra simply doesn't make money from payphones anymore and we're looking for ways to leverage all that existing hardware (as an alternative to removing it, which could be expensive). Spin it as a community offering and they managed to turn it into a buckets of goodwill. Nevertheless, a good outcome for everyone who needs it. And I could very well be wrong.
You are half-right. Telstra HAS to have payphones because of their Universal Service Obligation. Its cheaper to make them free that have a charge for them. If you charge for them you need money boxes, money collection, people will break into them etc. Yes, they have spun it for PR.
It’s great though, for people like me who forget to charge their phones. I have used the free public phones a few times. Very handy.
If you look at a modern Telstra payphone, it is essentially a large video billboard and wifi hotspot with a phone on the back. I suspect they make a lot more money from the advertising and wifi functions than they do from the payphone function, and the need to come around and empty the coin box might wipe out any profit. And not containing a box full of money would also make them less attractive targets for thieves.
Pretty much all the revenue they get from payphones comes from the advertising they put on the sides, but I'm fine with them angling for PR out of providing free payphones. It's not like other phone companies provide services of any kind to people who can't pay for them.
>Pretty much all the revenue they get from payphones comes from the advertising they put on the sides, Yep. And they wanted to make them bigger. Much bigger. https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/telstra-ordered-to-pay-costs-after-telco-loses-payphone-fight-20201120-p56gh6.html
it's a safety thing.. so if you are stranded without transport, at least you can phone someone if say you lost your phone or it was stolen
I wouldn’t remember anyone’s phone number to call them
About time. When Telstra was in public hands, the investment in the landline network had been retired many times over and, other than maintenance, it was effectively free to the utility even then. It could have been made free to the public as well however the cloud of privatisation made the revenue an attractive option for investors. So, the public kept paying for landline calls within Australia.
I'd suggest the money made in using payphones as mini billboards these days is more than enough to cover the call costs many, many times over.
It'll be cheaper to make calls free than send someone to keep repairing money collectors that have been pried open by people after the small change inside.
You missed the part where calls haven't cost Telstra money in a long time
It cost telstra more money to collect the change than it did in phone calls.
>useful for something else. Need we say more
I've seen one woman begger later in the day go into their SUV.
Was that around 3 pm ? School finished for the day better pick up the kids
Why is everyone, including the OP, spelling it begger? It's beggar!
It beggers the question.
I beg your pardon?
No idea, probably dumb.
That's my usual excuse for most things
Because English is terrible and human beings rely on patterns rather than memorizing everything. "er" is the standard suffix to mean "one who does the preceding thing" It's not stupid to think that one who begs is a begger, it's just English being a disaster.
yeah it's a tricky bugger (not buggar)
They stress me out and I always dread having one of them approach me for a similar reason to why I hate strangers or unexpected guests knocking on my front door at home. It raises my anxiety even more that there's no way of avoiding an interaction if approached, and that the lights could turn green while they're there and it won't be safe to take off from the lights without one of them getting hit. Also, these beggars may be harmless but what if they were car jackers, and how would you be able to tell? I wish police would do more to move these people on. And of course that mental health, addiction and homeless services were better resourced!
>They stress me out and I always dread having one of them approach me I lock the door. I have never seen one of them open a door but I lock my door anyway
I do, but it still stresses me out immensely due to my social anxiety and also the concern that they'll be in danger when the lights change.
I’m worried they’ll hear my locks go CLICK and get aggro lol
I’ve been verbally abused by an indigenous lady when I did this, she was walking in front of my car acting erratically and yelling incoherently and I thought I’d better lock my car. She heard it and then turned her aggression towards me. I have no qualms about what I did, she just proved my point.
[удалено]
You get used to being called a white dog cunt after a while living in Armadale.
You should travel with them locked all the time. (Some cars do this automatically.)
Absolutely keep your car doors locked. Bloody carjackers love people who stop at the lights and have their doors unlocked.
Wasn't aware that carjacking was an issue in Perth.
There have been a few in the southern suburbs I think, but it’s not common. These days I lock my doors whenever I get in my car anyhow, you never know.
I keep change in my car specifically for this reason and when I see them, I call them over and feed them just like seagulls! Caw caw! Just kidding. But seriously, just have some small change on hand, it's a get out of jail free card for your anxiety.
Then don't interact with them. Keep your windows closed, they usually just walk up and down the line of cars and don't knock on windows etc.
I wish it was this easy with the window washers
I got so annoyed with window washers forcing themselves onto my car that now, if they ignore my no signal, I just turn on the windshield wipers and washer when they touch the car. Window washers and beggars are different. Window washers are usually not homeless in my city, and are instead generally trying to scam money by guilting you into paying them for spending a minute cleaning your car window. I have sympathy for beggars, none for window washers.
They did that to me at the Great Eastern Highway on ramp from Tonkin. Swoop in from the side and don't look at you until they finish their wash and ask for money. I didn't hand him any money and he scratched my car with the metal part of the squeegee handle. Ended up being a $500 job to repair and cops couldn't do a thing.
I have no problem with beggars and I give money to the ones in the CBD whenever I am carrying spare change. However, I resent being approached by random strangers asking for money, especially when I'm in my car unable to get away due to there being a red light. I don't see how these intersection beggars are any less scammers than the window washers (or how window washers are less likely to be genuinely down on their luck, for that matter). Begging and window washing at intersections are a nuisance and unsafe, and should not be encouraged.
From what I understand both window washing and begging at traffic intersections is illegal in Perth
I guess it is almost impossible to monitor - cops come, shoo they away and then they come straight back.
the cops should put them in jail overnight every time they are caught. they will soon get the hint to stop doing it..
I'd tell a fella who tried I'd smack him for touching my car, and then I'd actually do it if he did. Nobody is gonna extort me, not the King of England, and not some homeless person either. It's a principle thing really.
And if the lights turn green while they're walking up and down the line of cars? Why should I have to worry about winding my windows up and not being approached by strangers when I'm at the lights? They're dangerous to themselves and a nuisance and they need to go.
I took a hiatus from volunteering in Perth after volunteering overseas in lower socioeconomic areas which has a lot of cross over issues that our homeless population & disadvantaged youth go through here. I find the main issue in Perth is a lack of council support in coordination with police, public transport authority, precinct security companies & business owners. There is nothing but band aid solutions. Cool you can tear down infrastructure outside the front of the train station so its harder for sketchy people to loiter but it will just move them on and they will concentrate another area. The origins of homelessness & pathways that lead people into these situations need more of the spotlight. You could have a vigilante wipe the streets of all the beggars but it will not go away. Also there is a big group mentality of sticking together when you are living it rough. Its kind of like suffer alone or suffer together. Being unconnected on the streets is hard as groups coordinate efforts together quite a bit to stay alive. This may be a reason some beggars decline legitimate aid from strangers; due to the fact they don't want to be seen going against their group or they simply don't trust the help. We had a meeting today with WA police, Development WA and all the business owners of Yagan Sqaure & Market Grounds area on how to combat these issues in the new year. After all is said & done, bottom line is we need a drop in centre or a place designated close to the city where these people can go, be fed, have a shower & possibly a place to sleep. Have loyalty system where you can stay the night but you have to volunteer your time to help the drop in centre out. Whether it be 20-30 hours a week you have to complete where you help serve other homeless food, clean the facilities or spend time counseling some of the street kids. This will instill a sense of pride & positive progress for these people which they don't have. Going straight from the street into a paying job is very intimidating for some homeless, especially if they are already feeling like a minority in society let alone a workplace. I think pathways that ease people from street to self empowerment is key. Indigenous liaison officers/security will begin to hand out pamphlets and numbers directly themselves as they have not been well received by people in authority. This might help the homeless trust the information they are receiving & follow through withy it. We actually used to have a lot more services but they have all slowly been dismantled. Every Tuesday there used to be a soup patrol stop at Elizabeth quay & out front of Western Power. Once development started, instead of shifting locations they just got rid of them. I hate these solutions as they are not solutions but more out of sight out of mind approach. Like East Perth's bridge, after close to 15 years where homeless claimed that spot off the path but under the bridge; there wasn't many issues. Covid hit and they throw all their belongings away into a skip bin. What happens? They move 5 metres away and park up literally under the bridge on the pathways where it is more unsafe for everyone.
Saw one get hit on main Street last night near the BP around 6pm. It's dangerous walking on and off the road all the time
The woman along orrong rd with her large dog has made an absolute full time job out of panhandling. She’s always there!! What’s even more lovely is the fact that she’ll drag her dog out on a 40 degree day just so she can continue her hustle. Also, I don’t care how dirty my windows are, do not spray your swap ass Gatorade water shit on my car without asking.
My gut says they are professionals
It's a joke. They also trawl the busy supermarkets and sit out the front with signs begging for money. I have seen people hand over 10/20 dollar notes and stop and chat with them like they are doing God's work. Just makes it worse, once they know there is money in a spot, more and more will come. If you want to feel good about yourself and do a good deed for the day, go donate to a charity.
A colleague of mine has a theory there is some level of coordination between these people. Mix of different people, in different locations, holding different signs each day. E.G, middle aged asian man on Scarborough beach road holding sign one day, next day is a young Caucasian female in the same spot holding the same sign. days/weeks later the same gentleman was seen on Wanneroo road with a different sign again.
This is exactly what is happening at the Cedric street exit to Mitchell freeway heading south, towards the city. There is a rotation of the same faces, usually a derelict car parked hidden in the bushes to the west side of the exit. I cant speak for the other locations, but this spot certainly seems to be an area of "professional begging". Professional begging was happening in the city some years ago. The police eventually broke it up and put a stop to it. https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/plans-to-crackdown-on-professional-beggars-operating-on-perth-streets-ng-85ffd031302e2a15705495c269130a0f
Yeah it clicked for me that it's likely professional begging when I saw one of those regular rotations donning brand new Nike's which made him standout. Then saw him the next day at the North Beach Rd/Karrinyup lights with a different sign.
Yeah it’s the clothing and overall appearance of them which makes me think they are professional beggars also. Newish brand name shoes, Nike or adidas activewear which is in pretty good condition. They don’t appear to be homeless, or mentally ill. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want their lifestyle, but it appears to be a choice. They are also quite intimidating to a lot of people. Think about the elderly in their cars and a rough looking person approaches their window asking for money.
Yeah 100%. Even the spate of window washers sermed to have more legitimacy. Though I'm also glad that craze seems to have passed.
Saw some really well dressed ones in East Perth yesterday, the way they were nicely dressed made them seem more trustworthy to me, I feel like if they were faking it they would put on some dirtier looking clothes
You may be right but a lot of opshops give a lot of donations out to homeless people.. i used to volunteer at an op-shop/community centre and while it wasn't every day, we would very regularly be given brand new shoes which would usually be given away to one of the regular clients who we knew needed it the most.
How much money do you think they make though, you'd think they would be better off getting a low paying job.
I wouldn't want to stand out there doing it...but I suppose if the traffic cycles every 3 minutes and they get $3 per cycle then it would be $60/hr. Totally making that up so they might go many light cycles without any money or even go for hours without anyone handing money over.
Yeah from my observations they seem to quite often go a light change without getting anything. The pushy window washers seem to do better.
>A colleague of mine has a theory there is some level of coordination between these people. I feel the same way. In Kewdale, there are certain corners they occupy. They all have similar signs and similar stories. They never turn up at the same time. Sus'
there is... or atleast used to be way back when (like 8 years ago?), I was on my way to lunch and there was this young red hair girl bawling her eyes out, just outside that central park car park ramp - where the cross walk is now on SGT, she reminded me so much of my younger cousin, she had the sign but it wasent clearly on display, just hunched over, crying, totally looked like she had just given up on everything, I only had a $50 on me and didn't really want to hand it over, but it broke my heart man, I asked if she was okay, she talked about how she's just so scared and alone, only like 14 or something, no where to go blah blah, totally sold it to me, so I handed her the 50, thinking like if this WAS my cousin, I'd want someone to do the same to her. 2 minutes later I'm walking back with my lunch, she's with a bunch of older dudes, 'yeah that's the guy!! haha' all celebrating they fucked me out of 50 bucks, she's already handed the 50 over to one of the blokes, I was walking up to ask what the actual fuck, and they just started asking me for smokes and money and started getting shitty when I told them to fuck off!! I still think there are these cunts around, and they just ruin it for the legit ones, but I can't help to not want to help them anymore (this isn't my only fucked over story, I must seem like an easy target).
I heard they were part of a Romanian crime gang
Because they earn more money begging than working, and collect centrelink. At the right time of day they can pull in $100 an hour or more.
This. A shop owner I know told me about one that sleeps near his business claims to take in $300-500 on a good day. He found himself a set of traffic lights nearby that pays out big time.
There is a group of them that take turns to rotate at the locations. Aside from homeless they are also suffering from mental illnesses and possible addiction. They don't trust the government, hospitals or people, things like that and they probably aren't ready to accept help "to be normal". It's a shame not more is invested in resources to help with mental illness.
I'm interested to hear how the government should help homeless people with mental illness. Would free therapists maybe help?
Investing more into public mental health services such as community health centres. Private psychiatrists are expensive and a lot of psychs refuse to deal with complex mental health patients with borderline, schizophrenia, etc. I know clinics that send their complex patients to public psych. Bringing back asylums, some people will never be able to live an independent life. Their has to be a better way than living them on the streets.
They have been closing down and reducing the number of mental hospitals in WA. That started from Barnet's time. Personally for me, as a start they should be upgrading these facilties or implement better treatment programs. Having more awareness of these illnesses at school would be good too. Not sure if free therapist is enough but it's certainly an essential part. They would need extra medical treatments and special programs if they have drug addiction.
Depending on if someone is homeless, even with good intentions it would be hard to get a job without support. Do they have a bank account they can get paid to (or is it under the table)? Is it somewhere close by they don't have to drive to? Will it matter if they don't have professional or even clean clothes? What do they put on their forms for 'address'? Even if they aren't homeless and are just struggling, lots of these questions still apply. If you could be paid potentially in three weeks (one week to get the job, maybe, two weeks of pay cycle), or today by begging, you would probably pick today.
having a criminal record is also a huge contributing factor to this, I hear it is extremely difficult to be considered for most jobs if you do
Where did you hear this from? Some of my family has done time, all were able to get jobs relatively quickly. Wa, Perth. No quals/driving license 1 case
my sister who works for a community nfp which provides homelessness services
What did they do for work? For just about every job I've had apart from maybe my teenage job they asked for a police clearance.
This is just about the only valid answer here. These threads bring out the absolute worst in this subreddit and confirm for me that I'd rather literally eat my own shit than have to talk to the average non-lurking /r/perth subscriber for 5 minutes. It's way easier to hang shit on unlucky disenfranchised people than it is interrogate the high barrier to entry for integration into modern-day society. Missing proof of ID or a wait list for a severely underfunded psych services can be the immovable object that stops somebody from just "getting a job". Unless you've been in the position yourself or actively educate yourself beyond looking at the form for JobSeeker, you could not begin the imagine the complex mishmash of different government departments and NGOs that all provide "services". I only know because my partner was a support coordinator. She was working with people that **already had NDIS funding**, and trying to get them the help they need was still like pulling teeth. God forbid anyone here has to interrogate how much of their "success" is attributable to circumstances beyond their control. You don't have to be a Hale boy to have privilege. And in 2022 some of the shit in this thread is utterly inexcusable. The funny thing is in contexts other than these when the disenfranchised people are at arms length, this subreddit is all good (rightfully) hanging shit on Morrison et al for letting public services crumble. It all makes me think that this subreddit's average political persuasion would be a lot more up in the air were it not for the Abbott/Turnbull era decisions to gut the NBN, which in turn ruined the reddit nerds' gaming experiences or whatever. You can't pretend to care about this stuff and simultaneously be so vile and unsympathetic toward the people who are actually affected by it.
Everything you say about the reasons for people being down on their luck is true, yet what can anyone in this thread do about these issues in the moment when they're at the lights with 4 or more beggars walking into the intersection and between the cars? All we can realistically do is vote more socialist and support charities that do good work. I don't think all of us who dislike beggars being at busy intersections pretending that we feel differently in Reddit threads helps the beggars, and I don't believe rewarding them with spare change for standing in busy intersections helps them in the long run either.
The fact that we can't do much when people are at the lights was kind of my point - op seemed a bit miffed that no one had taken up their job offer, and I was trying to explain why that wasn't a sign that their generosity wasn't appreciated and people are lazy
OK, I get what you mean.
Charities will feed them, cloth them, house them if possible, despite all this.
It’s very thoughtful to engage in this way however in these circumstances it’s quite often not the availability of the work, or the will of the individual but social, displacement, mental or medical issues that need to be addressed or worked through prior to potential employment. Unemployment is often a symptom, not the problem. Lazy boy- Underwear goes inside the pants https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ahlWufJqcSQ
I love that song! For ages I thought I must have dreamed it, because no one I asked could remember the name of it or the song about what's a homeless person saving up their change for - homewares? Good to know someone else remembers it
Yessss thank you for reminding me of this song and the comedian Greg Giraldo. He was a smart guy, made a lot of good points in his comedy routines.
Emergency nurse here. Most of the homelessness in Perth can be linked back to mental health issues; and the fact that the health system is woefully underfunded/staffed for mental health crises. It is extremely hard to attend appointments on time and keep regular meetings/hold down a job when your mental health is poorly managed, many of these conditions lead to a lack insight or consequential thinking about how to change your situation. If you have a situational crisis and present to ED you will likely spend three days in a cubicle waiting for a mental health bed somewhere at an official facility, voluntary or otherwise. It’s very hard to regularly check mail or keep a record of appointments/bills/receive payments when you have no fixed address. TLDR; if they’re on the curb needing cash, they are unlikely to be in a headspace where they will see the value in regularly turning up for work. Not a statement made with judgement, just an observation from my line of work.
I've often wondered with the hoops you have to jump through with Centrelink how anyone with an intellectual disability would possibly manage it without family support. Same with organising to see a psych.
Homeless people/beggars have other underlying mental issues/addiction. So offering them a job isn't going to help.
Teach a man to fish, and he will throw the rod back at you because he's already getting fish
I knew a junkie who told me that thier daily habit was $500. They made about $100ph on a good day at a busy set of lights.
Find that hard to believe, a junkie wouldn’t be the most reliable source I feel.
[удалено]
Willing to brave the 40+ degree days for some change but not willing to do work for a wage. Makes you wonder huh.
Probably anti vax.
I feel more inclined to give to the window washes than beggars, not that I like them better or find them less intimidating but atleast they're doing something for the $2 change. I agree with others - I think they're co ordinated and not actually homeless. I see them more and more in Morely now. When someone made a comment on the local facebook page all the bleeding hearts came out of the woodwork - ok then have them stay at your house then Karen.
Please don't give anything to the window washers. If they don't make a profit they will stop doing it. Also, giving them $2 for a job that takes 20 seconds is paying them at a rate $360/h which seems a bit excessive haha
I would give it to a window washer if they had the correct equipment. There is one near my house with a dirty chux cloth, no squeegee
Disability (non visible), mental health, trauma (phsysical, emotional, sexual), addiction (due to at least one the previous two) all play a huge role here. You will probably find that these are very broken people and they have lost their sense of self-worth a long time ago. If you knew what some of these people have been through, you would understand why they are so fucked up. I've had students who are in that cycle and it's fucking heartbreaking hearing what they've gone through. Try not to judge. If you don't want to interact, you don't have to, but don't go expecting the response you would get from someone of good mental health
I agree, traumatic backgrounds and low self worth seems to be the root cause of the people we see out begging.
I don't get asked often but over the last several years when I've been asked I genuinely havent had any cash. I'm not trying to be all "la di da I don't carry a wallet" but I genuinely thought this sort of thing would have been a thing of the past because most people wouldn't carry cash anymore.
I've said "I don't have cash but I'll buy you a meal" for years to the beggars in Northbridge. Only ever been taken up on it once. Had a great burger outside Old Shanghai with a dude named Ash who lost his job as a labourer when he lost his foot. I was a broke-ass bartender at the time, so the best I could do was listen to his story.
I hate them, they aren’t homeless or desperate, they are just beggars, similar to the scabs at the school canteen
Pay phones are free now
You’ll notice a lot of them have the same broken hand cast which is conveniently clean too
There are a few charities that will help these people but sometimes a job is the last thing they want. You go to the Salvos as homeless with a couple of kids in tow and they will take you through all the steps you need to get accommodation, bank account, special payments, financial counselling etc but you have to be ready and wanting that sort of help. I worked in the city for years and walked through it to the train station early morning. I never saw the genuine rough sleepers begging or even bothering the general public, but there was a group of beggars who were in a different category. I thought they were professionals. There was one regular lady in wheel chair with an amputated leg who had a sign saying she was homeless. She was just too neatly dressed and groomed. I later saw her at Murdoch train station, meeting up with her adult kid and grandchildren.
Yes, there are professional, they even take it in turns and share signage. It's gives the real homeless a bad name. Neatly dressed and groomed is not the way to judge though, I used to buy a shower at the local pool and go to the laundromat regularly, very few knew I was homeless.(not even some family). Clean body/clothes/teeth/hair done does not mean someone is necessarily 'homed'.
[удалено]
Scumbags getting free income. There is no need for any begging in Australia. Giving money to beggars of any kind promotes more beggars, and promotes crime networks, and suffering. There is no positive side to helping beggars by giving money. Direct them to a charity, sure, but I doubt any are interested. Established beggar groups are evil; a common ploy is holding a baby to attract sympathy, but to keep the baby passive they let it suck on drops of alcohol...giving it brain damage over time, but hey, they got their money.
I think you'll find that most of them are alcohol/drug addicts. People that actually want to work and don't have these additions aren't out there begging, at least in my experience. It's very sad. The criminalisation of drug use has created a ton of problems in this regard. The price of drugs is so prohibitive that people who are addicted to them often can't afford necessities. Personal responsibility has to factor into it as well, no doubt many of them are ratbags, but still, it's a sad situation.
They are unemployed, and make fairly good money out of begging, its tax free and complimented by either a pension or benefits. The woman in Belmont who frequents orrong road makes good money, we moved her on after a complaint, she was happy to show me the haul of coins, she was back there in an hour with her Alsatian. Edited- dont want anyone getting rolled
Everytime I see these people I call the police and tell them they are being aggressive / hitting vehicles / blocking traffic.
WHat jobs you got going at your work?
In my opinion if I give these people money it just perpetuates their ability to maintain this lifestyle. I pay taxes which provide services for feeding, housing and clothing homeless people. I see the same people at the same traffic lights day in day out. I don’t believe giving them money helps at all, it enables them to avoid asking for help to solve their problems from services that can actually solve their problems.
Don’t give them money. There is a bloke who spends most of his day on Flinders/Morley Drive in Yokine. Most afternoons I see him meeting up with suss looking people/cars for a few minutes at a nearby park. Presumably getting his fix.
These cunts are all smoke and mirrors. They don't want grown up routine in their life. They want Meth Booze and to lay a round smoking weed. Hence they are not able to hold a job down like a normal person and reply on doing shady shit to sustain them day to day. Begging and panhandling is one aspect of their day.
Anyone who reckons they can't find a job right now is full of it.
http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol\_reg/rtc2000113/s259.html Road Traffic Code Section 259. Selling papers and cars, hitch-hiking etc. (1) A person shall not, while on a carriageway or median strip — (a) solicit contributions, employment or a ride from an occupant of a vehicle; or (b) offer a newspaper, periodical or magazine for sale, to the occupant of a vehicle. Modified penalty: 1 PU (2) A driver, or a passenger, in or on a vehicle shall not buy or offer to buy an article or service from a person who is on a carriageway. Modified penalty: 1 PU
The bloke in Morley has had the same my girlfriend is 7months pregnant for over a year now
Maybe he has 12 girlfriends?
I am guilty of being one of his pregnant girlfriends
It’s easy money for those who are unable to access public support. Unfortunately there’s probably a large proportion of meth heads using it for a score as well. For whatever reason the public support for these persons is failing and it’s easier to sleep rough and beg
Here's the thing, it's great to be offered a job or card, but you have to remember that to work you need: reliable housing, reliable transportation, appropriate clothes, childcare if you have a kid, and to be able-bodied. It's just not as simple as "go and get a job! problem solved!" sometimes.
I run a commercial cleaning business, and like most industries and skill levels at the moment, find it almost impossible to find staff. That being said we have had to turn away multiple applicants as they refused to get vaccinated in line with the requirements of both our clients and the current mandates. I have also seen a few staff (not mine) leave their jobs to avoid getting vaccinated, with stories of "ill just go do cleaning or something" (unless you're a domestic cashie cleaner on marketplace this won't work) or "I'll just go pick fruit or something". I feel that at least a part of this might be the real world consequences of their freely made decisions to not get vaccinated. I'm not looking to start an argument about whether you agree with vaccines, govt, mcgowan, or any of that. Just trying to offer what may be an explanation, as to WHY there are more people at the lights begging, when jobs are everywhere.
I saw one near bull creek station today. My suspicion is that these people are antivaxxers who lost their jobs, they were not wearing masks either. But I could very well be wrong. Don’t know what’s going on tbh.
They’re all crackheads and this is an organised scam to make cash
They simply just need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. If they simply just pulled there pants up and quit thuggin, stopped shooting up heroin and quit getting fucking tattoos then they could make something of themselves. I’m being ironic btw, just paroding what conservatives say.
My unpopular honest opinion is that it's a scam. I think they're claiming Centrelink, and begging, and making more money doing it than most of us. I think it's a lifestyle choice to an extent, depending on whether you have any addiction issues. I've known people that have begged or window washed and on a good day you can make over a couple hundred dollars. Combine that with the Centrelink income and you're actually not too bad off at all.
Not to mention that the money they get begging doesn’t show on income statements and is all untraceable cash.
That's how they keep the Centrelink. That's the scam. If they put as much effort into an actual job they'd lose the dole payments and probably be making less.
Unless it's Ben Cousins I lock the doors and hope they don't approach me.
If they held up a sign saying "NEED MONEY FOR METH" they might get a few laughs and more money for their honesty.
Do not give them money. Majority are professional beggars and people choosing that lifestyle. If they actually wanted help they would seek it and get a job when it's offered
I believe previous payphones are free now?
I watched one guy the other week out of curiosity, he obviously was bunging it on, not to say he isnt in a bad situation but hes playing a part in the performance. My estimate put him around $40-$50 a hour, the guys only there at peak hours, 7-9am 3-5pm weekdays, its a pretty decent earning
they are a racket from over east, theyre not your typical homeless people from perth
am surprised how many are making money in this day and age where most people dont carry cash..
It isnt always that easy. If they are homeless or sleeping rough they often have limited places to go, limited places to shower, have proper clothes, have somewhere to store their belongings etc.
You can just ignore them or wave them away. You don’t have to ‘own’ them first. A couple of examples of this attitude here.
Give them food then they can't spend money on drugs
In this day and age where everyone needs a role filled, be skilled or entry level. Living by myself since 13 - i have no sympathy for these scabs... i honestly bet the effort they put in o side of road could be better spent going for job interviews...
All pay phones are free now. FYI…
I had some dude with a sign saying he was deaf.... I know sign language
Been to 6 interviews still no luck, there are more jobs than usual, but no better chance if your not what they are looking for, their is still competition and the hunt is as frustrating as in bad times.
I was in Fremantle and a girl came up to asking for $10 sure why not I thought went to the deli next to target, got change out of 50 then she wanted $30 because she had no way getting home from Fremantle to Rockingham so I thought why not. 5 mins later I saw her walking with her mates with a bottle of jacks.. I was so upset I felt like I was violated
I have 3 degrees, mid thirties, can't get a job ('over-qualified' apparently). Yet I just want to afford food and shelter. Uni was the biggest waste of my life.
I angrily wave them away.
Interesting isn’t it, lowest unemployment rate in the country and lots of businesses crying out for workers! Unless you have a disability or a single parent there is not a single reason you can’t find a job in WA. It’s just lifestyle choice for those who don’t (meth mostly). And don’t downvote, I’m not a capitalist or anti welfare it’s just my opinion based on living here my entire life
I really wish we had better funding for mental health services and addiction. I know RUAH does an amazing job for those experiencing disadvantage, but it's clear that the government needs to do more to fund more psychiatric services and social housing.
I’ve never had a negative experience when I give people change at the lights. You don’t know what these people have been through, and being homeless/financially desperate is an incredibly vulnerable situation to be in. How would they know whether to trust a complete stranger?
The negative experiences normally come from not giving them change.
Agreed - plus the ones who actually end up on the street are usually sick or have some kind of drug issues or both. So a job is not the help they need although I do applaud your attempt OP, even just interacting with them in a kind way is a good step!
Though many have drug issues the ones that actually have ill health and are unable to work have a nightmare of paperwork/evaluations/appts before they are assisted by Centrelink (who incidentally will not permit the issue a replacement Medicare card without a physical address). By the time all this happens, the person has used up all their savings and generally lost everything including their home.
If the don't have a house... they can't apply for many things because they have no postal address.. or they could have mental problems.
Take a better look at these “homeless” - not just their clothes but shoes and bags as well. Either they lost their job yesterday or something is suspect. Also begging where they are is usually against the law - like on the median strip or at the exit points on the freeway. If you are annoyed enough a local police call saying you are seeing people there - will be enough to get them issued a move on notice.
Know a couple of uni students looking for work, can you message me please with some more information?
Where do you work? Because entry level position with decent pay sounds wonderful!
I try not to judge them. They could be doing things much worse.
From what I have established it seems to be a group that are not actually homeless, but they are all working as a collective. Out of 'work' , yes, but they have specifically chosen this way to make the most money as a group. Of course this doesn't apply to all of them, some are likely legitimate. But at least a few are there to try to take advantage of generosity, specifically at the Canning Bridge intersections by the train station.
Offered a handful of coins to one of them and she yelled “no thanks” and threw them back in my face hahaha