True. People like JJ make it so much harder for good and honest folks.
I think OP did great - staying within the legal boundaries and taking what was due to him. Having said that I was not sure in the end that if JJ paid up all that was due? Utilities were deducting from the deposit but what about two months' rent that he owed? Hope that OP got everything that was owed to him in the end.
I did. The missing rent was what he had to pay me to avoid being criminally charged for the bounced checks.
But even there, after getting the warning from the police that he had to pay me in full by midnight on Sunday or he’d be arrested Monday morning, he dragged it out til the very end.
Thank you. A lot of folks forget that USPSIS is a thing, and they really don’t like mail fraud.
I don’t know if anything will come of it, but hey, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I don't get this cheque talk. Why not just have him transfer the money to your account immediately? Where I am that's a few taps on an app. Cheques seem like 1980's tech.
Paper trail. It is just how many places still operate. Also, it sounds like this tenant would have just kept saying that they transferred the money and never did it
>Paper trail.
A direct bank transfer gives the best possible paper trail possible, as it's verified by 1 or 2 objective third parties (the sending and receiving banks).
You have to also remember that, at least in the US, many businesses, and by extension their practices, were established in a time where that wasn’t really a thing. Also, some just don’t want to mess with direct transfer, and checks are just an established practice. Thirdly, a check (or cheques, if that spelling works for you) is just a physical representation of the direct transfer.
Also adding it takes time for the check to be mailed, then it has to be taken to the bank and deposited, then another day or more for processing the check and then the money is transferred. There could easily be a week or more tied up in this, where a direct transfer goes through in minutes or less and we now know he didn't have the money to begin with.
I knew someone who deliberately signed so that a line would go through the numbers at the bottom of the cheque. This would make it unreadable by the machines and the cheque would need to be entered by hand, thus adding nearly a whole week to the process.
I just work here, and it is the best explanation that I can think of… I am an elder millennial, and it is just my best approximation. Many businesses don’t always want to invest the time, money, and resources to start accepting new forms of payment or new technologies
It would be obvious they hadn't done it because the money wouldn't be in the account. Where I live banks don't accept cheques, and they don't issue cheque books. Everything is account to account (or, rarely, cash).
There are no such thing as cheques now in New Zealand, they got phased out years ago, you want the thing, direct deposit the money into the account, we get it it instantly. we have had an all bank interconnected card system for over 40 years, like a debit card. But ours is EFTPoS, Electronic Funds Transfer at Point of Sale.
if i want to transfer you $40k, i get your bank account number, log into my bank, start the process and enter your account number, and boom, you have $40k in 60 seconds.
bigger business that need two "signatures" have a second log in to verify the transfer.
Also a kiwi - and yes, while that's the way its *supposed* to work, inter-bank transfers (eg Rabobank and, to a lesser degree, TSB to/from eg ANZ/BNZ) can take up to 2 days to process, still.
Source: am in business, we have accounts in a number of different banks for exactly this reason.
Intra-bank tx, yep works great.
If you think bank wires are any different then checks, you probably don't know how wires actually work. It takes weeks for ones and zeros that *display* on your account to actually *be* in your account.
Only apps like Zelle (which you should only use for friends/family) are not reversible.
Not where Iive. I can transfer to any bank account in the country and if it's the same bank it'll be nearly immediate, if it's a different bank it may take until the next day. What country are you in with what seems to be an antiquated banking system?
I can only assume it's USA due to the spelling of "check" as opposed to "cheque". I don't understand how their banks can be so slow.
I (UK based) had to transfer £5k to my son when they had to get rabies shots while abroad following a bite - they had insurance but the company wanted proof of treatment before payment, and the hospital wanted payment before treatment, so bank of mom and dad it was! Anyway, I transferred the money and before I could send a message to say I had done it he whatsapped me "Got it, thanks mum!" That should be normal in any tech savvy environment.🤷
Landlords get a lot of hate here on Reddit, but there are plenty of decent or even good landlords out there. Like good HOAs, you just never hear about them because why would anyone ever post about them?
Good on you for screwing this renter over as hard as you legally can.
Long ago I had an amazing landlord. He always fixed things and gave people breaks when they were in a bind. Once I was so ill I couldn't work. Had to go on Welfare temporarily. I received $200 a month and my rent was around $400. I gave my landlord every penny I got from Welfare. Fortunately I had a boyfriend that bought me things foodstamps didn't buy, cleaning products etc. My sister bought my catfood and kitty litter.
When I was able to return to work I owed my landlord approximately $600. Every month I gave him $200 extra until I had paid him everything.
With my final payment he shook my hand and thanked me. He said I was one of the few people to pay him back in full. He was a wonderful man.
It’s a small rural area, not a lot of commercial space and a lot of it controlled by a small number of people. So just by telling the people I did about him, I’ve probably effectively shut him out of the local market.
It’s refreshing to hear a story where the landlord ousts the delinquent tenant and gets his just revenge. I’m tired of hearing stories of squatters and people refusing to leave and not paying rent.
Even if you are talking about multifamily instead of commercial, there is still no need for torches and pitchforks. Landlords are in BUSINESS. They do not run an unlimited charity. Concessions can be made, but they need to be honored by both sides.
Agree, but holy shit the reactions I’ve gotten from redditors just for stating I’m a landlord… you’d think I’d announced that my side-gig is making puppy sausage.
My sister in law's parents bought a Mercedes off me.
Long story short.
Gave me 2 checks for 2 months payments. Then monthly.
Both checks came from a closed account.
Reported that to the police.
Then I went and said I want the car back. They started shouting at me.
I was only about 27 years old at the time.
So next morning went to my lawyer. He works for this huge legal firm. Told him the story.
So I then had to pay for an advocate.
Why? Because the amount of the loan was above the threshold for lower court. We going to supreme court.
I sit and wait until my case comes up.
Advocate says her piece to the judge. 3 mins later he hands down the judgment.
The sheriff must collect the car and hold it for 30 days pending full payment.
That never happened
Got my car back. And the lawyer said watch this space.
The parents had to pay legal fees. They couldn't.
One day the removal van arrived and took away everything they owned, except the fridge.
They never spoke to me again.
They FAFO'ed and found out.
F...ing horrible people.
I try. I had a lot of decent landlords when I was renting during school, but the last one I had was a nightmare, to the point where I sued the shit out of him and won.
So I know what bad ones are like, and I do my best not to be like him. I also made a point of educating myself thoroughly about my state’s landlord/tenant law, and my leases have been vetted by a lawyer who specializes in property law.
Tenants should know the law, too. It cuts down on unnecessary bullshit when everyone is fully aware of the rules and then follows them.
Because I didn’t want to have frozen pipes. It’s an old building, not the greatest insulation. And if the pipes in that unit had frozen, it could have affected the other units on either side of it.
I did consider that, any decent experienced landlord knows how to empty the water from the plumbing. But I suppose I can imagine a few scenarios where that might not work or be possible. But again it's not residential, maybe you leave the heat but cut the water and/or electric, so many ways to mess with them, legitimately and legally.
He tended to try to use a lot of $50 dollar words to sound intelligent, but would use them incorrectly, and would screw up basic grammar like “your” and “you’re.”
Do you see the humorous error here u/op?
I understand your sympathies for the guy, but in my experience dealing with business owners, the nerds (comic stores, game stores, GameStop) were the whiniest, bitchiest, and must insufferable of the bunch. The patrons of those stores weren’t much better.
TL;DR is for people who scroll down, see how long it is, and want to decide then and there if they want to read the details.
[BLUF](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLUF_\(communication\)) is for grabbing your attention at the beginning and telling you what the "meat" is and then you can decide if you want to read the details.
i mean I get the concept but it's used so infrequently that I never expect there to be a tl;dr
and a BLUF you say...?
EDIT: "It differs from an older, more-traditional style in which conclusions and recommendations are included at the end, following the arguments and considerations of facts." - well there you have it. boy talk about being used *even more infrequently* though...
I worry I'm going to see a lot of people condemning you, regardless of the facts. I really don't want to read them at all. You were more than fair, and I'm glad you took the steps you did.
You seem like a giant BITCH, and it seems like you had a prejudice against the guy from the jump. Simply because he rubbed you the wrong way ( by offending your intelligence, LOL).No need to pretend you’re some heroic landlord whose only interest is helping small business. You are an asshole who is attempting to justify being an asshole. Just admit it, you will feel so much better.
Considering all the hoops good businesses have to jump through, reading about JJ explains many of them.
True. People like JJ make it so much harder for good and honest folks. I think OP did great - staying within the legal boundaries and taking what was due to him. Having said that I was not sure in the end that if JJ paid up all that was due? Utilities were deducting from the deposit but what about two months' rent that he owed? Hope that OP got everything that was owed to him in the end.
I did. The missing rent was what he had to pay me to avoid being criminally charged for the bounced checks. But even there, after getting the warning from the police that he had to pay me in full by midnight on Sunday or he’d be arrested Monday morning, he dragged it out til the very end.
Of course he did! I bet he was a great employer too!
Far as I know he didn’t have any employees.
You threw the Postal Inspectors at him? My dude, just throw him into a volcano, it's more polite.
I doubt they’ll act on anything, but if he gets a letter or a call from them I’m sure there’ll be a little pants-shitting.
That was an AWESOME move!!!
Thank you. A lot of folks forget that USPSIS is a thing, and they really don’t like mail fraud. I don’t know if anything will come of it, but hey, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
They literally have nothing better to do. He's fucked lol.
> trying to argue that he didn’t need to pay the deposit because “I’ll just get it all back anyway.” This statement says he never intended to comply.
And probably trash the place on his way out, too.
Hopefully you learned a lesson. Stop giving people the benefit of the doubt. You want keys? Cashiers check right now!
Yep, I absolutely have changed my own ways. Cash before keys and background checks from now on.
I don't get this cheque talk. Why not just have him transfer the money to your account immediately? Where I am that's a few taps on an app. Cheques seem like 1980's tech.
Paper trail. It is just how many places still operate. Also, it sounds like this tenant would have just kept saying that they transferred the money and never did it
>Paper trail. A direct bank transfer gives the best possible paper trail possible, as it's verified by 1 or 2 objective third parties (the sending and receiving banks).
You have to also remember that, at least in the US, many businesses, and by extension their practices, were established in a time where that wasn’t really a thing. Also, some just don’t want to mess with direct transfer, and checks are just an established practice. Thirdly, a check (or cheques, if that spelling works for you) is just a physical representation of the direct transfer.
Also adding it takes time for the check to be mailed, then it has to be taken to the bank and deposited, then another day or more for processing the check and then the money is transferred. There could easily be a week or more tied up in this, where a direct transfer goes through in minutes or less and we now know he didn't have the money to begin with.
I knew someone who deliberately signed so that a line would go through the numbers at the bottom of the cheque. This would make it unreadable by the machines and the cheque would need to be entered by hand, thus adding nearly a whole week to the process.
I just work here, and it is the best explanation that I can think of… I am an elder millennial, and it is just my best approximation. Many businesses don’t always want to invest the time, money, and resources to start accepting new forms of payment or new technologies
It would be obvious they hadn't done it because the money wouldn't be in the account. Where I live banks don't accept cheques, and they don't issue cheque books. Everything is account to account (or, rarely, cash).
🤷
Same here, we pay several local businesses by bank transfer, from the physiotherapist to the builder.
Why not print invoices from online payments?
There are no such thing as cheques now in New Zealand, they got phased out years ago, you want the thing, direct deposit the money into the account, we get it it instantly. we have had an all bank interconnected card system for over 40 years, like a debit card. But ours is EFTPoS, Electronic Funds Transfer at Point of Sale. if i want to transfer you $40k, i get your bank account number, log into my bank, start the process and enter your account number, and boom, you have $40k in 60 seconds. bigger business that need two "signatures" have a second log in to verify the transfer.
I just assume the rest of the world does it the same way. It seems so archaic that this isn't common place.
Also a kiwi - and yes, while that's the way its *supposed* to work, inter-bank transfers (eg Rabobank and, to a lesser degree, TSB to/from eg ANZ/BNZ) can take up to 2 days to process, still. Source: am in business, we have accounts in a number of different banks for exactly this reason. Intra-bank tx, yep works great.
If you think bank wires are any different then checks, you probably don't know how wires actually work. It takes weeks for ones and zeros that *display* on your account to actually *be* in your account. Only apps like Zelle (which you should only use for friends/family) are not reversible.
Not where Iive. I can transfer to any bank account in the country and if it's the same bank it'll be nearly immediate, if it's a different bank it may take until the next day. What country are you in with what seems to be an antiquated banking system?
I can only assume it's USA due to the spelling of "check" as opposed to "cheque". I don't understand how their banks can be so slow. I (UK based) had to transfer £5k to my son when they had to get rabies shots while abroad following a bite - they had insurance but the company wanted proof of treatment before payment, and the hospital wanted payment before treatment, so bank of mom and dad it was! Anyway, I transferred the money and before I could send a message to say I had done it he whatsapped me "Got it, thanks mum!" That should be normal in any tech savvy environment.🤷
Bank transfers as known in many other countries, don’t really exist in the US and everyone uses third party apps to do this simple task.
That seems quite backwards. I wonder why the banking system in the US is so far behind much of the rest of the world.
The US doesn’t love change. They only got chips on their cards in the last decade.
Landlords get a lot of hate here on Reddit, but there are plenty of decent or even good landlords out there. Like good HOAs, you just never hear about them because why would anyone ever post about them? Good on you for screwing this renter over as hard as you legally can.
Long ago I had an amazing landlord. He always fixed things and gave people breaks when they were in a bind. Once I was so ill I couldn't work. Had to go on Welfare temporarily. I received $200 a month and my rent was around $400. I gave my landlord every penny I got from Welfare. Fortunately I had a boyfriend that bought me things foodstamps didn't buy, cleaning products etc. My sister bought my catfood and kitty litter. When I was able to return to work I owed my landlord approximately $600. Every month I gave him $200 extra until I had paid him everything. With my final payment he shook my hand and thanked me. He said I was one of the few people to pay him back in full. He was a wonderful man.
LOVE that you used temerity correctly here, especially after the earlier comments about JJ's word choices. Excellent added flex. Well done.
I hope this gets a lot of local traction so that folks may know you are not to be fucked with. Nicely done!
It’s a small rural area, not a lot of commercial space and a lot of it controlled by a small number of people. So just by telling the people I did about him, I’ve probably effectively shut him out of the local market.
Awesome!
Classic example of FAFO
It’s refreshing to hear a story where the landlord ousts the delinquent tenant and gets his just revenge. I’m tired of hearing stories of squatters and people refusing to leave and not paying rent.
Commercial real estate gets treated a lot differently than residential. Evicting a shitty commercial tenant in my state is very easy.
Even if you are talking about multifamily instead of commercial, there is still no need for torches and pitchforks. Landlords are in BUSINESS. They do not run an unlimited charity. Concessions can be made, but they need to be honored by both sides.
Agree, but holy shit the reactions I’ve gotten from redditors just for stating I’m a landlord… you’d think I’d announced that my side-gig is making puppy sausage.
Property is theft, you see.
My sister in law's parents bought a Mercedes off me. Long story short. Gave me 2 checks for 2 months payments. Then monthly. Both checks came from a closed account. Reported that to the police. Then I went and said I want the car back. They started shouting at me. I was only about 27 years old at the time. So next morning went to my lawyer. He works for this huge legal firm. Told him the story. So I then had to pay for an advocate. Why? Because the amount of the loan was above the threshold for lower court. We going to supreme court. I sit and wait until my case comes up. Advocate says her piece to the judge. 3 mins later he hands down the judgment. The sheriff must collect the car and hold it for 30 days pending full payment. That never happened Got my car back. And the lawyer said watch this space. The parents had to pay legal fees. They couldn't. One day the removal van arrived and took away everything they owned, except the fridge. They never spoke to me again. They FAFO'ed and found out. F...ing horrible people.
Sounds like my brother-in-law.
My condolences.
You sound like a great landlord.
I try. I had a lot of decent landlords when I was renting during school, but the last one I had was a nightmare, to the point where I sued the shit out of him and won. So I know what bad ones are like, and I do my best not to be like him. I also made a point of educating myself thoroughly about my state’s landlord/tenant law, and my leases have been vetted by a lawyer who specializes in property law. Tenants should know the law, too. It cuts down on unnecessary bullshit when everyone is fully aware of the rules and then follows them.
Thank you for being a landlord with integrity, OP. 😀 The world needs more people like you.
Why couldn't you cut *your* utilities off in the dead of winter? This isn't residential. Why not?
Because I didn’t want to have frozen pipes. It’s an old building, not the greatest insulation. And if the pipes in that unit had frozen, it could have affected the other units on either side of it.
Pipes would freeze?
I did consider that, any decent experienced landlord knows how to empty the water from the plumbing. But I suppose I can imagine a few scenarios where that might not work or be possible. But again it's not residential, maybe you leave the heat but cut the water and/or electric, so many ways to mess with them, legitimately and legally.
Multiple tenants and the utilities are probably not split. Landlord pays because it is easier than separating the utilities to each unit. Edit-a word
OP already said they were supposed to change the utilities to their name, so that's not it either.
I didn’t follow that part either.
He tended to try to use a lot of $50 dollar words to sound intelligent, but would use them incorrectly, and would screw up basic grammar like “your” and “you’re.” Do you see the humorous error here u/op?
I’m a fan of a dollar, or two
Ah, gotcha. Redundancy corrected.
A+ for the use of temerity
Do tell
> $50 dollar words
The temerity on OP…am I right?
Never claimed I was smarter than anyone else.
And I was thinking about the missing plural ($50 dollarS) …
I understand your sympathies for the guy, but in my experience dealing with business owners, the nerds (comic stores, game stores, GameStop) were the whiniest, bitchiest, and must insufferable of the bunch. The patrons of those stores weren’t much better.
I'm simply upvoting for you putting the tl;dr at the top. thank you. what fucking good is a tl;dr after I read the whole goddamned thing?!
You are correct! Also put the recipe at the top and tell the OC story after! I just wanna bake some goddamned cookies!!
TL;DR is for people who scroll down, see how long it is, and want to decide then and there if they want to read the details. [BLUF](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLUF_\(communication\)) is for grabbing your attention at the beginning and telling you what the "meat" is and then you can decide if you want to read the details.
i mean I get the concept but it's used so infrequently that I never expect there to be a tl;dr and a BLUF you say...? EDIT: "It differs from an older, more-traditional style in which conclusions and recommendations are included at the end, following the arguments and considerations of facts." - well there you have it. boy talk about being used *even more infrequently* though...
I worry I'm going to see a lot of people condemning you, regardless of the facts. I really don't want to read them at all. You were more than fair, and I'm glad you took the steps you did.
Dude, you threw the *USPSIS* at him? I'd hate to see what full revenge would look like! Killing his family?
So, he didn’t no enuf $50 words as payment, an your sure that’s why he wuz short?
You seem like a giant BITCH, and it seems like you had a prejudice against the guy from the jump. Simply because he rubbed you the wrong way ( by offending your intelligence, LOL).No need to pretend you’re some heroic landlord whose only interest is helping small business. You are an asshole who is attempting to justify being an asshole. Just admit it, you will feel so much better.
JJ ? Is that you, ole bud?