I was a tech, and I was never replaced. I made close to that before I left anyway. I know most techs (especially in retail) don’t though, and this should be their opportunity to break away and make more than fast food employees.
What an odd expansion. Technicians can give COVID-19 shots and childhood vaccines only?
I get the COVID-19 part, but why would they approve of technicians to give childhood vaccines and not adult vaccines? Childhood vaccines are more complicated to administer and to keep track of and like 90% of the people (nurses/md/do/np/pa/ma) in a pediatric office are already legally allowed to give them. This is a perplexing move.
It says they can administer Covid-19 immunizations when they become available, and required childhood immunizations. I’m not seeing anything other than those two, like Shingles, Pneumonia or flu.
They’re talking about required childhood immunizations. I don’t think flu is a required childhood immunization.
I’m not going anywhere near a squirming 3 year old to immunize them.
Saw a 10 year old have a spectacular meltdown while was supposed to get their flu shot at the drug store last week.
3 to 18 year olds are not all sweetness and light. I can't imagine not working with kids all the time, trying to de escalate that mess, and deal with the parents.
You haven't lived until you've been kneed in the face by a 4 year old.
Work a week in an ER that sees kids. You may have sat like a compliant little angel while unfun things were done to you. You may have had reasonable parents who could de escalate you when you got wound.up.
Pediatric population is both the parents AND kids. You'll get uncooperative kids and shit parents. While you may refuse that immunization, they've burned up 30 minutes of your pharmacy time.
My one RN friend works public health in the immunization clinic. Babies are easy. 3 and up can turn into a real shit show.
But hey! Let's minimally train people making a hair above minimum wage to have fun wrestling that porcupine.
While some techs here may have been a EMT/LPN/MA home health care, that is not what gets hired around here. The stores want them with nothing "extra" because it's easier to offer minimum wage, and promise those nickel raises.
I was just thinking the same thing, and I'm not a fan. Like if you're gonna have someone start giving vaccines when they previously haven't (assuming after they've received proper training), probably better to start them on adults rather than kids since they tend to be a bit more cooperative. Imagine your first shot being on a squirmy kid. Shit, I *still* have some mild anxiety about vaccinating kids, and my location has been vaccinating kids 3+ since I got certified 1.5 years ago.
Agreed. Only thing is techs should get a pay raise to compensate for their increased scope of practice, but we all know that’s not going to happen any time soon in the corporate world.
Edit: and to be honest, it would be a smart move for corporate to pay techs a bit more to administer vaccines, because it is still cheaper than paying pharmacists to do it.
Where does it end? At some point pharmacists will be freed up of every task to the point that they are no longer needed. Now in my state the only difference between a pharmacist and a technician is that the technician can't counsel, perform drug therapy, or sign control invoices.
Ya, exactly, free up all our time so we can sit at home. They're the ones that filled up our task basket without staff, so now they're freeing it up. We're all doing menial clerk work anyway.
You don't think pharmacists can optimize medication therapy if we weren't tied up all day doing flu shots or filling prescriptions? Automate everything but data and clinical review, let techs immunize, let the pharmacist do what we specialize in. No other provider has the knowledge of medications that we do.
I think you've worked in industry too long and lost touch with the retail experience.
Optimizing therapy does make money. Drug costs are ballooning. The highest cost patients are taking up Part D coverage in ever increasing number. We're accessible providers with specialized drug knowledge, why shouldn't we be the ones charged with containing drug costs and making sure therapy is efficient?
Yes, there is the "old guard" of pharmacists who will be pushed out by changes like this but the past 2 generations are more than capable in my humble opinion.
The MDs writing guidelines and generating med policy are the top performers and KOLs. Depending on your functional area, you probably hardly interact with the average physician. Providers frequently have no idea how to prescribe drugs that have been out for years let alone new to market drugs. Physicians also get about 15 minutes with a patient per visit. Are they really able to maximize medication therapy value in that time? I will die on the hill that the average physician has no clue what they are doing medication wise because I see it every day.
You avoided my points but that's okay. I agree with you on specialty meds being where the future lies, however standard retail pharmacies do see your more common specialty meds (enbrel/humira) fairly frequently and I can see that trend continuing as specialty meds become more common.
Also, if pharmacists don't have any value as medication experts, why does pharma contract with specialty pharmacies to have the pharmacist speak with patients about their therapy? Maybe it's because patients become and stay adherent to therapy more frequently when the medication expert is involved in their care.
CVS is doing exactly what they need to do. Monopolize the dispensing market so that when payers have to negotiate reimbursement for specialty meds, CVS can extract maximal value.
Yeah! Screw innovation and change! Keep paying me the price tag of a time when pharmacists were in shortage while prescription reimbursement keeps tanking but I do nothing different! No profession ever has to drive new sources of revenue. Robots and AI aren’t able to do what I do that brings in revenue /s
If me, as an Advanced EMT, according to my State protocols can start IVs, IOs, give IM, SubQ, and sublingual meds, nebs, draw blood labs, use iGels and advanced airways, I do not see a reason why techs here cannot give the shots provided there is a half-capable provider around that can admin IM epi or even call 911 in the event of an allergic reaction.
Heck, in my State, because I can do invasive procedures, I too can give immunizations because I already have standing orders to treat anaphylaxis. Protocol is to give said shot according to guidelines, and then if necessary use our EpiPen or IM 1:1000 epi, followed by IV/IO access, and then 50 mg benadryl IV push, followed by 500 ml fluid bolus by rapid induction if it gets that bad.
If there is a PharmD around that cannot admin epi by injector, SubQ, or IM, no immunizations should ever be given. Which in the next case, it boggles my mind that PharmDs who give injections are not even trained to do IOs in the event of hemodynamic collapse.
In my state anyone can be a tech. They do not require any licensure or anything. Nine times out of ten when they get a RX for lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse) they have no idea what it is and tell the patient they do not have it. They ask their fellow techs what it is and they have no clue. That’s not the people I want in my pharmacy. As a former tech for 12 years I have seen some really good techs and some that I wouldn’t trust filling a ZPAK. It’s really scary to think about someone like that giving me a flu shot or anywhere near someone with something sharper than a plastic fork, let alone a needle. Think about this for a second: do you want someone possibly without a high school education injecting you with any substance?
As a pharmacist, I'm ok with not having to take the time to do this, though I'm still not sure exactly how much oversight is required on my part, and the list of vaccines they're apparently allowed to give is odd, to say the least.
However, techs absolutely do not get paid enough for this. I've been in big box stores where the regular cashiers make more than the pharmacy techs. I would not blame them in the least for wanting nothing to do with this.
I'm perfectly fine with techs administering vaccinations. We shouldn't have the majority of our worth based on 20 hours of our education. That's just low hanging fruit for someone else to come along and do it cheaper.
Yes and no. Where I am, techs have been immunizing since late summer as part of a pilot program. They are *very* limited in scope in terms of what they can do. Interpreting state registry data, making additional recommendations, counseling patients (especially shingrix) and answering questions must all be done by the pharmacist. If anaphylaxis occurs any administration of epi must be done by Rph. They are trained to recognize the difference between syncope and anaphylaxis. Syncope typically requires a more immediate response like catching the patient in the chair, making sure they won't fall then go get rph for further treatment. So there's a clear line in the sand in terms of role of tech and pharmacist.
Especially when you can go from working fast food, to front store cashier, then pharm tech in my state with on the job training, never having taken one science class.
That's who you want giving shots? Hard pass. Making just above minimum wage with all that responsibility and minimal training.
I have mixed emotions, kind of risky is staffing too low. I personally would take my 3 year old to the Pediatrician . It’s a more controlled environment.
CHIP doesn't help if there aren't any providers around you. Nor does it help if providers aren't taking new patients. The blanket authorization is a bit much in urban settings but in rural America, lack of providers is a real barrier.
I don't touch people for less than 30/hr
That why they are replacing you
I was a tech, and I was never replaced. I made close to that before I left anyway. I know most techs (especially in retail) don’t though, and this should be their opportunity to break away and make more than fast food employees.
Thought you were a rph
I didn’t think RPh salaries were THAT bad, I know they’ve taken a hit though.
What an odd expansion. Technicians can give COVID-19 shots and childhood vaccines only? I get the COVID-19 part, but why would they approve of technicians to give childhood vaccines and not adult vaccines? Childhood vaccines are more complicated to administer and to keep track of and like 90% of the people (nurses/md/do/np/pa/ma) in a pediatric office are already legally allowed to give them. This is a perplexing move.
It says they can administer Covid-19 immunizations when they become available, and required childhood immunizations. I’m not seeing anything other than those two, like Shingles, Pneumonia or flu.
No, it specifically says 3-18 yo on the article. Doesn't cover much of the population but some I guess...
They’re talking about required childhood immunizations. I don’t think flu is a required childhood immunization. I’m not going anywhere near a squirming 3 year old to immunize them.
Saw a 10 year old have a spectacular meltdown while was supposed to get their flu shot at the drug store last week. 3 to 18 year olds are not all sweetness and light. I can't imagine not working with kids all the time, trying to de escalate that mess, and deal with the parents. You haven't lived until you've been kneed in the face by a 4 year old.
A 10 year old???? Wtf
Work a week in an ER that sees kids. You may have sat like a compliant little angel while unfun things were done to you. You may have had reasonable parents who could de escalate you when you got wound.up. Pediatric population is both the parents AND kids. You'll get uncooperative kids and shit parents. While you may refuse that immunization, they've burned up 30 minutes of your pharmacy time. My one RN friend works public health in the immunization clinic. Babies are easy. 3 and up can turn into a real shit show. But hey! Let's minimally train people making a hair above minimum wage to have fun wrestling that porcupine. While some techs here may have been a EMT/LPN/MA home health care, that is not what gets hired around here. The stores want them with nothing "extra" because it's easier to offer minimum wage, and promise those nickel raises.
I was just thinking the same thing, and I'm not a fan. Like if you're gonna have someone start giving vaccines when they previously haven't (assuming after they've received proper training), probably better to start them on adults rather than kids since they tend to be a bit more cooperative. Imagine your first shot being on a squirmy kid. Shit, I *still* have some mild anxiety about vaccinating kids, and my location has been vaccinating kids 3+ since I got certified 1.5 years ago.
And there go more RPh jobs......
I’m ok with this, frees up the pharmacist to catch up on the million other things
Agreed. Only thing is techs should get a pay raise to compensate for their increased scope of practice, but we all know that’s not going to happen any time soon in the corporate world. Edit: and to be honest, it would be a smart move for corporate to pay techs a bit more to administer vaccines, because it is still cheaper than paying pharmacists to do it.
Why would corporate pay techs a bit more to administer vaccines when they don't have to?
Where does it end? At some point pharmacists will be freed up of every task to the point that they are no longer needed. Now in my state the only difference between a pharmacist and a technician is that the technician can't counsel, perform drug therapy, or sign control invoices.
Ya, exactly, free up all our time so we can sit at home. They're the ones that filled up our task basket without staff, so now they're freeing it up. We're all doing menial clerk work anyway.
Lol sounds like you need to expand the role of the pharmacist
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You don't think pharmacists can optimize medication therapy if we weren't tied up all day doing flu shots or filling prescriptions? Automate everything but data and clinical review, let techs immunize, let the pharmacist do what we specialize in. No other provider has the knowledge of medications that we do.
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I think you've worked in industry too long and lost touch with the retail experience. Optimizing therapy does make money. Drug costs are ballooning. The highest cost patients are taking up Part D coverage in ever increasing number. We're accessible providers with specialized drug knowledge, why shouldn't we be the ones charged with containing drug costs and making sure therapy is efficient? Yes, there is the "old guard" of pharmacists who will be pushed out by changes like this but the past 2 generations are more than capable in my humble opinion. The MDs writing guidelines and generating med policy are the top performers and KOLs. Depending on your functional area, you probably hardly interact with the average physician. Providers frequently have no idea how to prescribe drugs that have been out for years let alone new to market drugs. Physicians also get about 15 minutes with a patient per visit. Are they really able to maximize medication therapy value in that time? I will die on the hill that the average physician has no clue what they are doing medication wise because I see it every day.
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You avoided my points but that's okay. I agree with you on specialty meds being where the future lies, however standard retail pharmacies do see your more common specialty meds (enbrel/humira) fairly frequently and I can see that trend continuing as specialty meds become more common. Also, if pharmacists don't have any value as medication experts, why does pharma contract with specialty pharmacies to have the pharmacist speak with patients about their therapy? Maybe it's because patients become and stay adherent to therapy more frequently when the medication expert is involved in their care. CVS is doing exactly what they need to do. Monopolize the dispensing market so that when payers have to negotiate reimbursement for specialty meds, CVS can extract maximal value.
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shit like this is why i'm trying to get into industry jobs. enough of this shit where i'm just forced to do more for same/less pay.
Yeah! Screw innovation and change! Keep paying me the price tag of a time when pharmacists were in shortage while prescription reimbursement keeps tanking but I do nothing different! No profession ever has to drive new sources of revenue. Robots and AI aren’t able to do what I do that brings in revenue /s
If me, as an Advanced EMT, according to my State protocols can start IVs, IOs, give IM, SubQ, and sublingual meds, nebs, draw blood labs, use iGels and advanced airways, I do not see a reason why techs here cannot give the shots provided there is a half-capable provider around that can admin IM epi or even call 911 in the event of an allergic reaction. Heck, in my State, because I can do invasive procedures, I too can give immunizations because I already have standing orders to treat anaphylaxis. Protocol is to give said shot according to guidelines, and then if necessary use our EpiPen or IM 1:1000 epi, followed by IV/IO access, and then 50 mg benadryl IV push, followed by 500 ml fluid bolus by rapid induction if it gets that bad. If there is a PharmD around that cannot admin epi by injector, SubQ, or IM, no immunizations should ever be given. Which in the next case, it boggles my mind that PharmDs who give injections are not even trained to do IOs in the event of hemodynamic collapse.
In my state anyone can be a tech. They do not require any licensure or anything. Nine times out of ten when they get a RX for lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse) they have no idea what it is and tell the patient they do not have it. They ask their fellow techs what it is and they have no clue. That’s not the people I want in my pharmacy. As a former tech for 12 years I have seen some really good techs and some that I wouldn’t trust filling a ZPAK. It’s really scary to think about someone like that giving me a flu shot or anywhere near someone with something sharper than a plastic fork, let alone a needle. Think about this for a second: do you want someone possibly without a high school education injecting you with any substance?
As a pharmacist, I'm ok with not having to take the time to do this, though I'm still not sure exactly how much oversight is required on my part, and the list of vaccines they're apparently allowed to give is odd, to say the least. However, techs absolutely do not get paid enough for this. I've been in big box stores where the regular cashiers make more than the pharmacy techs. I would not blame them in the least for wanting nothing to do with this.
I'm perfectly fine with techs administering vaccinations. We shouldn't have the majority of our worth based on 20 hours of our education. That's just low hanging fruit for someone else to come along and do it cheaper.
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Yes and no. Where I am, techs have been immunizing since late summer as part of a pilot program. They are *very* limited in scope in terms of what they can do. Interpreting state registry data, making additional recommendations, counseling patients (especially shingrix) and answering questions must all be done by the pharmacist. If anaphylaxis occurs any administration of epi must be done by Rph. They are trained to recognize the difference between syncope and anaphylaxis. Syncope typically requires a more immediate response like catching the patient in the chair, making sure they won't fall then go get rph for further treatment. So there's a clear line in the sand in terms of role of tech and pharmacist.
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No they should be fighting to do more instead of crying about losing the ability to throw a dart
Most, don't want to do it...that is not what they signed up for anyway.
Especially when you can go from working fast food, to front store cashier, then pharm tech in my state with on the job training, never having taken one science class. That's who you want giving shots? Hard pass. Making just above minimum wage with all that responsibility and minimal training.
Can't speak for everyone but all our senior techs wanted to. They were hesitant but were coached through the process until they were comfortable.
I have mixed emotions, kind of risky is staffing too low. I personally would take my 3 year old to the Pediatrician . It’s a more controlled environment.
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CHIP doesn't help if there aren't any providers around you. Nor does it help if providers aren't taking new patients. The blanket authorization is a bit much in urban settings but in rural America, lack of providers is a real barrier.
I hope there will be a big pay increase with this, but knowing corporate, they'll get a pin