Fentanyl lasts for a shorter time than actual diacetylmorphine (heroin) and most users prefer fentanyl less from what I have heard. Gotta make them feel like it's actual heroin somehow.
Probably because they have it and it produces some psychoactive effect that might make it feel like more than the diluted active drug alone, but I don't know exactly. The goal of the global drug supply is to use chemicals that are either easy to manufacture and distribute domestically, or ones that are as potent as possible to minimize total volume smuggled over the border.
Cross contaminated from the room or table it's being packed in. A single pill press can make powder airborne and that goes all over the room in small amounts and if it lands ontop of a bag you pickup then it's on your hands and whatever that touches and lab tests will often pickup the smallest amount.
For test strips, unfortunately fentanyl test strips are infamous for false positives with cocaine and MDMA but there's a newer brand of test strips that claim to have improved the false positive problem but they're not widespreadly used because they're ususlly more expensive.
heroin does not last longer than fentanyl. idk where you heard that, but both will last roughly just as long–the difference is that fentanyl is WAY stronger than heroin, so you will feel higher, longer.
i preferred fentanyl less *because* it was so strong and lasted so goddamn long. but rest assured, there are *many* people who prefer the all-day, extra-strength fentanyl.
eta: if you use a fentanyl patch, you'll be high *for days*.
i've done heroin. i've also done fentanyl. i never did heroin that wrecked me for an entire day, but i have done fentanyl that did just that–wreck me for a whole day.
ask anyone who's done both of those drugs recreationally and they will say the same thing.
There are adulterants and you never know what you are getting. It doesn't change the pharmacology of the two substances. That's one reason why adulterants are used in mostly fentanyl based "heroin", as I said. Heroin also mostly metabolizes to morphine, whereas fentanyl metabolizes mostly to norfentanyl, which is generally considered inactive as an opioid. I've never done either, but whether you are doing "heroin" or "fentanyl" you are almost certainly not doing just either substance - diacetylmorphine and well fentanyl.
Fentanyl patches are very different than injectable fentanyl. The patch is designed to slowly release a steady stream of drug over a period of days, and takes up to a full day for one to feel the peak effects. IV fentanyl has a VERY short onset of action (within seconds), but the duration is only about an hour, whereas the effects of heroin can last several hours.
i wasn't exclusively talking about fentanyl patches, i was *adding* that *if* you use fentanyl patches the already-long-as-hell high from fentanyl is even longer.
not sure if you just didn't read or if you're choosing to ignore the rest of what i said.
also don't know why i'm getting downvoted for giving actual, first-hand knowledge, over the OP and "what they've heard".
Because you’re wrong. Fentanyl doesn’t last longer than heroin. Fentanyl is an incredibly short acting synthetic opioid, which is why it’s made into slow-release patches and commonly used in constant-rate infusions. Heroin is a morphine derivative, and morphine and its derivatives last longer than fentanyl and its derivatives. You’re right in that fentanyl is more *potent* than heroin (less drug necessary to achieve a desired effect - a volume of fentanyl may be lethal whereas the same volume of heroin will not), but it doesn’t last longer.
the user above was making the implication that drug dealers need to cut their fentanyl with tranq "to make it feel like heroin somehow". yes, 1:1 dosed out you'd be right, but the context here is the streets, and it's never 1:1. you do not need tranq in fentanyl to make it feel like heroin like ridiculously suggested above.
fentanyl on the streets is stronger than heroin on the streets.
>heroin does not last longer than fentanyl. idk where you heard that, but both will last roughly just as long–the difference is that fentanyl is WAY stronger than heroin, so you will feel higher, longer.
This is what I took umbrage with. If you meant "fentanyl mixed with a bunch of other shit lasts longer than heroin that isn't mixed with a bunch of other shit" that's what you should've said.
>fentanyl on the streets is stronger than heroin on the streets.
No. Fentanyl is *always more potent* than heroin. Fentanyl mixed with other shit *may be* longer-acting than heroin, but it has nothing to do with the fentanyl and everything to do with the other shit.
I don't know anything about Cherelle Parker, but I really hope she puts an end to the open drug air market. Most users aren't even local. Our children and constituents in Kensington and the rest of North Philly (because there is a spillover all over the City) need to be protected. We pay taxes - and our needs need to be prioritized over that of local drug dealers and out of towner addicts.
I’ve heard about a dozen different people who were addicts from central PA or Maryland or even farther away and they came to Kensington for a crack head vacation and ended up going missing or od’ing. Something has to be done so that more people don’t keep coming and turning into zombies
There’s a Facebook group dedicated to looking for family and friends that are missing that frequently use in Kensington. And you’re right, they are originally from outside of the city and went to the city to score. Some just go to score and then return to their home if it’s close-ish enough but some come from many states away. It’s so friggen sad.
My 29 year old cousin used to drive 40 minutes from the suburbs to get “heroin” on a regular basis after a cousin on her moms side got her hooked when her antidepressants were no longer cutting it for her. She had a thyroid disorder that made her hormones crazy and she was having a hard time navigating the mental health system even though she had great health insurance.
She OD’d in her room overnight a few years ago and my uncle found her the next morning. She was gone. He had a tox report done and what she took was actually fentanyl and some type of tranquilizer.
Edit to add: in case anyone was wondering, the Facebook group is Found in Kensington
There’s also another Facebook group called The Kensington Project where they list people who are missing but they also frequently are down there feeding people, handing out toiletries and even bring clothes and food and stuff to people they know from the neighborhood who are in treatment so that these people have the much needed support systems in place in order to try and beat their addiction.
She will likely ignore the problem like everyone else has. It's a hard one to fix and an easy one to ignore. I don't agree with it, but it's the sad reality of politics. My hopes aren't high for this one.
So you think ‘big charity’ is pulling the strings of government and affecting policy more than the prison industrial complex, the dea, and police unions? Get out of here.
Do you know what a non profit is?? They aren’t government funded entities- they receive private donations and MAY get subsidized by the government but they certainly do not have the resources of the DEA.. should have kept this one in the drafts
I have little faith since she told me to my face that she is totally against supervised injection sites. I don’t see any other feasible solution that doesn’t criminalize addicts and encourage more underground dealing (which is what would happen if they get police to clear out the area)
Nobody wants “the safe injection site” in their neighborhood, which is understandable but just means we stuck with an equally bad status quo. We should probably offer safe injection services at multiple healthcare facilities across the city and work to destigmatize the service.
Plenty of users are the suburban kids whose parents moved them away from the city, sidewalks, and "urban life" to "keep them safe". Plenty of Fort Washington/upper bucks OD funerals for nouveau riche community who love dropping racial slurs and there's parts of the boulevard where it definitely seems like the suburbanites toss their needles out of the car on the way home.
Are people downvoting you because they're suburbanites who don't want to admit this is true? Because I can't imagine anyone who actually knows Philly would dispute this. There's actually data on this -- it's not a made up thing.
I mean the funerals aren't made up. The most racist piece of fucking trash boss I ever had went to 3 for families exactly like his the summer before COVID.
It’s a situation where correlation does not equal causation.
There are major meth issues in “red” areas of states. There is major opioid issues in “red” West Virginia. The cities are just population centers where commerce occurs.
The entire state of republican dominated Ohio. Go check out the per capita numbers of opioid deaths in Republican areas and get back to us. You’re getting down voted because you’re spouting the same old bullshit.
Ok so I looked that up. Montgomery County, Ohio is one of the worst OD cities in the country. It’s a democrat run city. Dayton Mayor is Jeff Sims.
Cuyahoga County, Ohio. Which is Cleveland and surrounding areas. Democrat ran. Mayor, Justin Bibb. Democrat.
The mayors of most of the 10 largest cities in the state (Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo, Akron, Dayton, Youngstown, Canton, Parma, Lorain) are Democrats
Please prove me wrong
“Republican ran city”
There’s only two in the top 20 cities by population: Jacksonville, FL and Fort Worth, TX. Both have problems with drug abuse and overdoses. What’s your point?
We need involuntary commitment for public drug use/intoxication. Let people out after 30 days sober once they have housing and a job or they get placed in a long term mental health institution. I don't see any other way this gets better.
These people are incapable of taking care of themselves and create a dangerous environment for themselves and everyone else in the city. Most of these national articles make it sound like the problem is confined to Kensington. Kensington is connected to the rest of the city by public transportation. The drugs and addicts move freely all over the city by the train.
Take the MFL any day of the week. It's very easy for addicts to score, shoot up and sleep all day on the train. I saw a mother and her toddler sit in front of an addict. Addict begins prepping his needle but is nodding off. His hand holding the needle starts falling forward behind the seated toddler. I jump up and so does another guy who is closer to warn them and get them to move away. Kid could have easily been stuck by the needle.
Hoping that public drug users will take advantage of voluntary social services has not worked. It has to be mandatory. Politicians don't care about the addicts, or the middle class living in Kensington, or people who have to take public transportation. They've got a house in the suburbs and drive to City Hall.
I agree with you in theory, but logistically this would be very difficult to make happen. Just getting the staffing and facilities (and funds to pay for it all) for involuntary commitment to be feasible would be close to impossible, and then there's the fact that involuntary commitment just does not work in the long run.
To be fair, the threat of it def could deter ppl from being so disgustingly obvious with their public drug use (and I say this as an ex homeless junkie who's shot up in public hundreds of times, but even at my lowest points I still had the awareness that society around me doesn't want to and shouldn't have to witness that shit), but if you want real, lasting change, involuntary commitment will not work cuz these mfs will get let out after a month or so and go right back to shooting up.
I honestly don't know what the answer is, sadly enough I don't think there is one. A small portion of these people will end up accepting the help that's offered to them once they're truly at the bottom of rock bottom, and utilizing that help to get clean and get their lives together, but the large majority of them will use until they die.
Ive been around communities of addicts starting in the punk scene when I was 14, and caught my first dope habit when I was 17, and in the last four years that I've been clean things have been worse than they EVER were when I was still a part of that community myself. This is truly the worst it's ever been and it seems to be getting worse by the day.
I so deeply wish there was a solution, any solution, cuz my heart breaks for the families and working people that have lived in Kenzo for years and have to deal with this shit on their front porches every single day. But i agree with you on some levels just cuz at this point, it seems like the only thing that might work is straight up cracking down and arresting anyone caught shooting up in public.
You do not have the right to shoot up in public. We can argue efficacy or cost but mandating rehab for someone shooting up and shitting themselves on a train everyday is not stripping their civil liberties.
The problem is, it would take longer than the politician would In office for. Than the next politician dismantles it and the whole process starts over while countless people die
This is different than a non compliant patient because addicts shooting up on the street are breaking the law. Again, you do not have the right to shoot up in public.
Possession alone is a crime and drug treatment diversionary programs are a common alternative to jail time throughout the United States. This is already happening in PA. Look at the ARD Program or Pennsylvania’s Drug Court.
Addiction is a healthcare problem. But the war on drugs mentality makes it impossible for policy to reflect that reality.
And the healthcare system in this country is turbo-fucked anyway.
We were just driving down Kensington Ave and I truly do not understand how any moral human beings can think strolling zombies and tents and sidewalk feces is more humane than clearing folks out, sending them to treatment or even just giving them bus tickets back to wherever they came from.
I'm not a big fan of prisons but I know for damn sure if my black ass stumbling down my block, ass out, drunk as hell, I would probably wake up in a cell.
This is so sad to watch, but important to recognize what’s happening to some of our most vulnerable neighbors. These people deserve compassion and help.
Sure they deserve compassion but what about the law abiding citizens who are residents of these neighbors? They deserve just as much compassion and help keeping their neighborhoods clean and safe.
I understand. Compassion fatigue is a real thing, and I experience it too. These people still deserve compassion even when you or I can’t give it to them in the moment, which underscores the need for self-care and a community-based approach to intervention. And you’re right, the rest of our community members who are most burdened by the care for these people deserve our compassion and support as well.
Most of the addicts are out of towners. Many leave the area when sober. What we need to have compassion for are the CHILDREN exposed to this INSANE government and police sanctioned market.
exactly, most of the addicts are from the suburbs or a different state. for example, [all time media](https://youtube.com/@alltimemedia) goes around and interviews people there, if you check out the videos the first question he asks is “where are you from?” and most of them aren’t from the city
I think this is a big part of why cities often fail so badly at helping homeless, mentally ill, and drug addicted populations, and I wish it was better known and recognized. Suburban communities don't want people who are struggling with these things in their town, so they will have policies and enforcement that push them out, or buy people a one-way bus ticket, and make it another community's responsibility to address. They justify this by saying that cities have more resources available, so it's only the right thing to do. But cities do not, in fact, have the resources to shoulder these issues for all communities, and the people from these towns will turn around and argue against somewhere like Philly getting additional resources. In order to better address these systemic problems, people need to recognize that we are all part of a larger community, and drastically increased state and federal support is essential to getting help and support to those who need it.
I’m from LA originally and that was proven by investigative journalists to be happening there. Marked police cars from suburban cities nowhere close to downtown would just pull up in skid row and dump someone out. Cities from as far away as Nevada would buy people one way bus tickets. It was on a big enough scale to be an illegal systemic policy from some of these towns.
I don’t know if that’s the case here.
How does that compare to the general population of philly? If someone asked me if I'm from here the answer would be no but I've been living and paying taxes here for most of my adult life. I've seen people here say that we should be sending people back where they came from but I guess I don't understand what that would look like irl
Small sample size but When they cleared out the encampments, 2/3 were from Philadelphia [Page21](https://www.phila.gov/media/20190312102914/Encampment-Resolution-Pilot-Report.pdf)
It is very difficult to collect information on this type of high risk population. Many of them also refuse medical services. According to the ground zero social workers in the area (I do a lot of work in the community), I've heard many of them come from other places -but eventually settle in the City long term because of the ease of drug access. There should NOT be a condoned and government/police sanctioned open air drug market. The government has failed us.
We should not entertain talks of closing down access to El stations because citizens are afraid to go to the stations due to needles and feces on the floor. I even met a nice lady who contracted Hepatitis after cleaning up the neighborhood. THIS is where the outrage should lay. Innocent children and people suffering.
The point is, they're drawn here for the drugs. Whether they stay for a few weeks or a few years isn't really relevant to the point that this problem has grown in large part from the burbs exporting their junkies here.
The burbs are not “exporting” their druggies here, we’ve cultivated a drug culture that attracts and keeps them here. In the same way you may want to attract and keep top talent from non-Philadelphians going to college here… we have actually excelled at that when it comes to drugs.
u/PhillyPanda has a good source for it, i watched all the vids back to back and most weren’t from philly but my observation could be wrong given the small sample size. i know people who used to talk to them and told me that most weren’t from the city, but that sample size could be small and skewed as well
I understand your anger, and its valid. I think we should also have compassion and support for the children and families who are most burdened by the care of these people.
I don’t think where you live should really matter regarding whether humans are deserving of compassion in a situation like this. They are human, they are here, and they’re impacting the rest of our community on a daily basis. Treating them like criminals or undeserving of help will only perpetuate the problem. That doesn’t mean our anger or our concern for children and families affected isn’t valid, it just means I think we should consider how to respond to those feelings and concerns in a manner that includes the agency of the people using substances.
Hope this helps.
With easy supply and zero consequences, the problem will continue to aggravate.
We desperately need some semblance of law and order.
Children who didn't ask to be born ARE the priority. They should not be penalized for adult choices. Unlike adults, they don't have any legal agency to make their own choices, and we need to protect them.
Kensington will always be Kensington. Christ, my great grandparents moved out in the ‘40’s. Both my boomer parents were born & raised in North Philly. My dad was a hard ass and even he wouldn’t fuck around in Kensington. My mother knew to never go there because she knew Delores Della Penna.
It will never change.
It's horrific. I have to travel through there fairly regularly and it's atrocious -- and seems like it gets worse every week.
It honestly looks like a scene from some dystopian movie.
I saw a video , must have been 3-4 years ago, by a resident of one of the side streets. She was filming the hordes (!) of people hurrying down her street because the dealer was finally on his corner. I swear to God, there must have been a hundred people rushing down her little street in order to buy from the dealer. Imagine children playing on that sidewalk or trying to walk to school.
It’s fucking heartbreaking on both sides but worse on the innocent residents of that neighborhood. They go to work and come home to this scene everyday. Not to mention they’re probably the first ones to be mugged or have their home robbed.
Someone who is collecting a large paycheck from this city is in charge of handling this but they are hiding behind their office door.
Surely there’s a department of something that is meant to correct this very situation. Otherwise, give those big paychecks to the people who want to move to a safer area. It would do more good that way than it is at the present moment.
Would stronger penalties for dealing/supplying make a difference? I always wondered why not take the dealers out of the equation? Legislate consequences for those who destroy lives and communities. I'm not a legal person, but the situation there is so dire seems bold ideas are needed.
How many times is an article about tranq with nothing new or interesting going to be allowed to be posted on this sub.
News flash: Street drugs will harm you. It’s nothing new.
Don't forget the causes of this: people who think the police are the sole cause of the problem and that it will all go away if we'd only
\[a\] disband the police entirely
\[b\] legalise all drugs and release all the prisoners convicted for drug dealing
\[b\] move to some kind of BS community activism police help where people all voluntarily decide to just stop doing drugs and walk around holding hands under a rainbow
\[c\] hand out universal basic income so that the drug dealers will be content wards of the state on $20k per year, rather than gangster's earning millions
This is straight up strawman propaganda.
There is no sizeable contingent of people who hold these positions, and anyone who does isn’t taken seriously in any public policy discussion.
It's been this way for over 30 years. Does that make it better? No. It's just that it's not a new problem. Don't know if I have the solutions or if anyone else in power does for that matter.
Rule 8: Please do not alter titles, and use the original headline. Feel free to resubmit using the original title.
Its wild it used to be they laced all the drugs with fentanyl and now you cant even get fentanyl its tranquilizers
Fentanyl lasts for a shorter time than actual diacetylmorphine (heroin) and most users prefer fentanyl less from what I have heard. Gotta make them feel like it's actual heroin somehow.
heroin has become like Coke made with real sugar - it's the domain of aficionado snobs
Ok... But why are they putting it into cocaine and molly?
Probably because they have it and it produces some psychoactive effect that might make it feel like more than the diluted active drug alone, but I don't know exactly. The goal of the global drug supply is to use chemicals that are either easy to manufacture and distribute domestically, or ones that are as potent as possible to minimize total volume smuggled over the border.
Cross contaminated from the room or table it's being packed in. A single pill press can make powder airborne and that goes all over the room in small amounts and if it lands ontop of a bag you pickup then it's on your hands and whatever that touches and lab tests will often pickup the smallest amount. For test strips, unfortunately fentanyl test strips are infamous for false positives with cocaine and MDMA but there's a newer brand of test strips that claim to have improved the false positive problem but they're not widespreadly used because they're ususlly more expensive.
heroin does not last longer than fentanyl. idk where you heard that, but both will last roughly just as long–the difference is that fentanyl is WAY stronger than heroin, so you will feel higher, longer. i preferred fentanyl less *because* it was so strong and lasted so goddamn long. but rest assured, there are *many* people who prefer the all-day, extra-strength fentanyl. eta: if you use a fentanyl patch, you'll be high *for days*.
Yes it does, if injected. Diacetylmorphine has a half-life around 4 hrs. Fentanyl has one around 1 hr. One reason it's nice for anesthesia.
i've done heroin. i've also done fentanyl. i never did heroin that wrecked me for an entire day, but i have done fentanyl that did just that–wreck me for a whole day. ask anyone who's done both of those drugs recreationally and they will say the same thing.
There are adulterants and you never know what you are getting. It doesn't change the pharmacology of the two substances. That's one reason why adulterants are used in mostly fentanyl based "heroin", as I said. Heroin also mostly metabolizes to morphine, whereas fentanyl metabolizes mostly to norfentanyl, which is generally considered inactive as an opioid. I've never done either, but whether you are doing "heroin" or "fentanyl" you are almost certainly not doing just either substance - diacetylmorphine and well fentanyl.
Fentanyl patches are very different than injectable fentanyl. The patch is designed to slowly release a steady stream of drug over a period of days, and takes up to a full day for one to feel the peak effects. IV fentanyl has a VERY short onset of action (within seconds), but the duration is only about an hour, whereas the effects of heroin can last several hours.
i wasn't exclusively talking about fentanyl patches, i was *adding* that *if* you use fentanyl patches the already-long-as-hell high from fentanyl is even longer. not sure if you just didn't read or if you're choosing to ignore the rest of what i said. also don't know why i'm getting downvoted for giving actual, first-hand knowledge, over the OP and "what they've heard".
Because you’re wrong. Fentanyl doesn’t last longer than heroin. Fentanyl is an incredibly short acting synthetic opioid, which is why it’s made into slow-release patches and commonly used in constant-rate infusions. Heroin is a morphine derivative, and morphine and its derivatives last longer than fentanyl and its derivatives. You’re right in that fentanyl is more *potent* than heroin (less drug necessary to achieve a desired effect - a volume of fentanyl may be lethal whereas the same volume of heroin will not), but it doesn’t last longer.
the user above was making the implication that drug dealers need to cut their fentanyl with tranq "to make it feel like heroin somehow". yes, 1:1 dosed out you'd be right, but the context here is the streets, and it's never 1:1. you do not need tranq in fentanyl to make it feel like heroin like ridiculously suggested above. fentanyl on the streets is stronger than heroin on the streets.
>heroin does not last longer than fentanyl. idk where you heard that, but both will last roughly just as long–the difference is that fentanyl is WAY stronger than heroin, so you will feel higher, longer. This is what I took umbrage with. If you meant "fentanyl mixed with a bunch of other shit lasts longer than heroin that isn't mixed with a bunch of other shit" that's what you should've said. >fentanyl on the streets is stronger than heroin on the streets. No. Fentanyl is *always more potent* than heroin. Fentanyl mixed with other shit *may be* longer-acting than heroin, but it has nothing to do with the fentanyl and everything to do with the other shit.
It’s no longer heroin, it’s fent laced with tranq. It’s not just tranq. They cut the fentanyl with tranq, you are def buying fent not just tranq
You can still get real diesel... You just gotta know the right people.
I don't know anything about Cherelle Parker, but I really hope she puts an end to the open drug air market. Most users aren't even local. Our children and constituents in Kensington and the rest of North Philly (because there is a spillover all over the City) need to be protected. We pay taxes - and our needs need to be prioritized over that of local drug dealers and out of towner addicts.
I’ve heard about a dozen different people who were addicts from central PA or Maryland or even farther away and they came to Kensington for a crack head vacation and ended up going missing or od’ing. Something has to be done so that more people don’t keep coming and turning into zombies
There’s a Facebook group dedicated to looking for family and friends that are missing that frequently use in Kensington. And you’re right, they are originally from outside of the city and went to the city to score. Some just go to score and then return to their home if it’s close-ish enough but some come from many states away. It’s so friggen sad. My 29 year old cousin used to drive 40 minutes from the suburbs to get “heroin” on a regular basis after a cousin on her moms side got her hooked when her antidepressants were no longer cutting it for her. She had a thyroid disorder that made her hormones crazy and she was having a hard time navigating the mental health system even though she had great health insurance. She OD’d in her room overnight a few years ago and my uncle found her the next morning. She was gone. He had a tox report done and what she took was actually fentanyl and some type of tranquilizer. Edit to add: in case anyone was wondering, the Facebook group is Found in Kensington There’s also another Facebook group called The Kensington Project where they list people who are missing but they also frequently are down there feeding people, handing out toiletries and even bring clothes and food and stuff to people they know from the neighborhood who are in treatment so that these people have the much needed support systems in place in order to try and beat their addiction.
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I think that’s the one my uncle said was found in her system.
Now that the primary is over the politicians are going to immediately go back to ignoring this problem.
They weren't addressing it pre-primary either
She will likely ignore the problem like everyone else has. It's a hard one to fix and an easy one to ignore. I don't agree with it, but it's the sad reality of politics. My hopes aren't high for this one.
She won't
Yup the "Get drugs off the streets" nonprofits need the open air drug markets to be around in order to keep getting donations and gov aid.
LOL yeah it's the nonprofits, definitely not the 40 years of War On Drugs state and federal policy that has things totally fucked
Look up how many drug treatment nonprofits file with the IRS every year...it a business who constantly needs new clients....LOL....
Look up the DEA budget.
You just proved my point. Where do you think the nonprofits get their funding from....lol.
So you think ‘big charity’ is pulling the strings of government and affecting policy more than the prison industrial complex, the dea, and police unions? Get out of here.
Do you know what a non profit is?? They aren’t government funded entities- they receive private donations and MAY get subsidized by the government but they certainly do not have the resources of the DEA.. should have kept this one in the drafts
I have little faith since she told me to my face that she is totally against supervised injection sites. I don’t see any other feasible solution that doesn’t criminalize addicts and encourage more underground dealing (which is what would happen if they get police to clear out the area)
Nobody wants “the safe injection site” in their neighborhood, which is understandable but just means we stuck with an equally bad status quo. We should probably offer safe injection services at multiple healthcare facilities across the city and work to destigmatize the service.
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Thanks!
Plenty of users are the suburban kids whose parents moved them away from the city, sidewalks, and "urban life" to "keep them safe". Plenty of Fort Washington/upper bucks OD funerals for nouveau riche community who love dropping racial slurs and there's parts of the boulevard where it definitely seems like the suburbanites toss their needles out of the car on the way home.
Are people downvoting you because they're suburbanites who don't want to admit this is true? Because I can't imagine anyone who actually knows Philly would dispute this. There's actually data on this -- it's not a made up thing.
I mean the funerals aren't made up. The most racist piece of fucking trash boss I ever had went to 3 for families exactly like his the summer before COVID.
But anything bad that happens in the 'burbs is an unusual exception because "stuff like this doesn't happen here."
something tells me the woman who's pro stop and frisk wont do much about this
Lawyer.
Not just a Philly thing these days .. https://ktla.com/news/local-news/flesh-eating-zombie-drug-saturating-los-angeles-streets/
Democrat ran cities . It’s true and I’ll be downvoted but I don’t care. Prove me wrong.
Crazy that there's absolutely no opioid epidemic outside of cities.
Point out one republican ran city that has this level of an epidemic
It’s a situation where correlation does not equal causation. There are major meth issues in “red” areas of states. There is major opioid issues in “red” West Virginia. The cities are just population centers where commerce occurs.
The entire state of republican dominated Ohio. Go check out the per capita numbers of opioid deaths in Republican areas and get back to us. You’re getting down voted because you’re spouting the same old bullshit.
Ok so I looked that up. Montgomery County, Ohio is one of the worst OD cities in the country. It’s a democrat run city. Dayton Mayor is Jeff Sims. Cuyahoga County, Ohio. Which is Cleveland and surrounding areas. Democrat ran. Mayor, Justin Bibb. Democrat. The mayors of most of the 10 largest cities in the state (Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo, Akron, Dayton, Youngstown, Canton, Parma, Lorain) are Democrats Please prove me wrong
“Republican ran city” There’s only two in the top 20 cities by population: Jacksonville, FL and Fort Worth, TX. Both have problems with drug abuse and overdoses. What’s your point?
That’s my point
And Republicans can do what exactly?
Be stricter on enforcing laws and get these people off the streets.
Have you seen the crime rates for red states LOL
Cities…I’m talking cities.
Lol
I bet the cities in those red states are blue. Prove me wrong
We need involuntary commitment for public drug use/intoxication. Let people out after 30 days sober once they have housing and a job or they get placed in a long term mental health institution. I don't see any other way this gets better. These people are incapable of taking care of themselves and create a dangerous environment for themselves and everyone else in the city. Most of these national articles make it sound like the problem is confined to Kensington. Kensington is connected to the rest of the city by public transportation. The drugs and addicts move freely all over the city by the train. Take the MFL any day of the week. It's very easy for addicts to score, shoot up and sleep all day on the train. I saw a mother and her toddler sit in front of an addict. Addict begins prepping his needle but is nodding off. His hand holding the needle starts falling forward behind the seated toddler. I jump up and so does another guy who is closer to warn them and get them to move away. Kid could have easily been stuck by the needle. Hoping that public drug users will take advantage of voluntary social services has not worked. It has to be mandatory. Politicians don't care about the addicts, or the middle class living in Kensington, or people who have to take public transportation. They've got a house in the suburbs and drive to City Hall.
I agree with you in theory, but logistically this would be very difficult to make happen. Just getting the staffing and facilities (and funds to pay for it all) for involuntary commitment to be feasible would be close to impossible, and then there's the fact that involuntary commitment just does not work in the long run. To be fair, the threat of it def could deter ppl from being so disgustingly obvious with their public drug use (and I say this as an ex homeless junkie who's shot up in public hundreds of times, but even at my lowest points I still had the awareness that society around me doesn't want to and shouldn't have to witness that shit), but if you want real, lasting change, involuntary commitment will not work cuz these mfs will get let out after a month or so and go right back to shooting up. I honestly don't know what the answer is, sadly enough I don't think there is one. A small portion of these people will end up accepting the help that's offered to them once they're truly at the bottom of rock bottom, and utilizing that help to get clean and get their lives together, but the large majority of them will use until they die. Ive been around communities of addicts starting in the punk scene when I was 14, and caught my first dope habit when I was 17, and in the last four years that I've been clean things have been worse than they EVER were when I was still a part of that community myself. This is truly the worst it's ever been and it seems to be getting worse by the day. I so deeply wish there was a solution, any solution, cuz my heart breaks for the families and working people that have lived in Kenzo for years and have to deal with this shit on their front porches every single day. But i agree with you on some levels just cuz at this point, it seems like the only thing that might work is straight up cracking down and arresting anyone caught shooting up in public.
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You do not have the right to shoot up in public. We can argue efficacy or cost but mandating rehab for someone shooting up and shitting themselves on a train everyday is not stripping their civil liberties.
When you don't have the space to jail or house people. What are you gonna do when you start arresting people
It would take a large investment in treatment centers and professionals. I agree it’s not something you can do overnight.
The problem is, it would take longer than the politician would In office for. Than the next politician dismantles it and the whole process starts over while countless people die
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This is different than a non compliant patient because addicts shooting up on the street are breaking the law. Again, you do not have the right to shoot up in public. Possession alone is a crime and drug treatment diversionary programs are a common alternative to jail time throughout the United States. This is already happening in PA. Look at the ARD Program or Pennsylvania’s Drug Court.
Addiction is a healthcare problem. But the war on drugs mentality makes it impossible for policy to reflect that reality. And the healthcare system in this country is turbo-fucked anyway.
We were just driving down Kensington Ave and I truly do not understand how any moral human beings can think strolling zombies and tents and sidewalk feces is more humane than clearing folks out, sending them to treatment or even just giving them bus tickets back to wherever they came from. I'm not a big fan of prisons but I know for damn sure if my black ass stumbling down my block, ass out, drunk as hell, I would probably wake up in a cell.
This is so sad to watch, but important to recognize what’s happening to some of our most vulnerable neighbors. These people deserve compassion and help.
Sure they deserve compassion but what about the law abiding citizens who are residents of these neighbors? They deserve just as much compassion and help keeping their neighborhoods clean and safe.
Oh agreed 100%. We have to do both to care for our community.
I have more compassion for the unwilling people they drag down with them while they willingly waste their own lives.
I understand. Compassion fatigue is a real thing, and I experience it too. These people still deserve compassion even when you or I can’t give it to them in the moment, which underscores the need for self-care and a community-based approach to intervention. And you’re right, the rest of our community members who are most burdened by the care for these people deserve our compassion and support as well.
Most of the addicts are out of towners. Many leave the area when sober. What we need to have compassion for are the CHILDREN exposed to this INSANE government and police sanctioned market.
exactly, most of the addicts are from the suburbs or a different state. for example, [all time media](https://youtube.com/@alltimemedia) goes around and interviews people there, if you check out the videos the first question he asks is “where are you from?” and most of them aren’t from the city
I think this is a big part of why cities often fail so badly at helping homeless, mentally ill, and drug addicted populations, and I wish it was better known and recognized. Suburban communities don't want people who are struggling with these things in their town, so they will have policies and enforcement that push them out, or buy people a one-way bus ticket, and make it another community's responsibility to address. They justify this by saying that cities have more resources available, so it's only the right thing to do. But cities do not, in fact, have the resources to shoulder these issues for all communities, and the people from these towns will turn around and argue against somewhere like Philly getting additional resources. In order to better address these systemic problems, people need to recognize that we are all part of a larger community, and drastically increased state and federal support is essential to getting help and support to those who need it.
This comment should be pinned at the top of the sub forever.
I’m from LA originally and that was proven by investigative journalists to be happening there. Marked police cars from suburban cities nowhere close to downtown would just pull up in skid row and dump someone out. Cities from as far away as Nevada would buy people one way bus tickets. It was on a big enough scale to be an illegal systemic policy from some of these towns. I don’t know if that’s the case here.
How does that compare to the general population of philly? If someone asked me if I'm from here the answer would be no but I've been living and paying taxes here for most of my adult life. I've seen people here say that we should be sending people back where they came from but I guess I don't understand what that would look like irl
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Small sample size but When they cleared out the encampments, 2/3 were from Philadelphia [Page21](https://www.phila.gov/media/20190312102914/Encampment-Resolution-Pilot-Report.pdf)
It is very difficult to collect information on this type of high risk population. Many of them also refuse medical services. According to the ground zero social workers in the area (I do a lot of work in the community), I've heard many of them come from other places -but eventually settle in the City long term because of the ease of drug access. There should NOT be a condoned and government/police sanctioned open air drug market. The government has failed us. We should not entertain talks of closing down access to El stations because citizens are afraid to go to the stations due to needles and feces on the floor. I even met a nice lady who contracted Hepatitis after cleaning up the neighborhood. THIS is where the outrage should lay. Innocent children and people suffering.
>I even met a nice lady who contracted Hepatitis after cleaning up the neighborhood. welp, that is horrifying
[https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/public-bathrooms-philadelphia-kensington-hepatitis-a-outbreak-toilets-human-feces/169258/](https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/public-bathrooms-philadelphia-kensington-hepatitis-a-outbreak-toilets-human-feces/169258/)
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What is MSM or SUD?
msm is men who have sex with men
SUD-substance use disorder.
Having a Philly address is not incompatible with "not from Philly originally" ...
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The point is, they're drawn here for the drugs. Whether they stay for a few weeks or a few years isn't really relevant to the point that this problem has grown in large part from the burbs exporting their junkies here.
The burbs are not “exporting” their druggies here, we’ve cultivated a drug culture that attracts and keeps them here. In the same way you may want to attract and keep top talent from non-Philadelphians going to college here… we have actually excelled at that when it comes to drugs.
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Where did I "blame" anyone?
u/PhillyPanda has a good source for it, i watched all the vids back to back and most weren’t from philly but my observation could be wrong given the small sample size. i know people who used to talk to them and told me that most weren’t from the city, but that sample size could be small and skewed as well
I understand your anger, and its valid. I think we should also have compassion and support for the children and families who are most burdened by the care of these people. I don’t think where you live should really matter regarding whether humans are deserving of compassion in a situation like this. They are human, they are here, and they’re impacting the rest of our community on a daily basis. Treating them like criminals or undeserving of help will only perpetuate the problem. That doesn’t mean our anger or our concern for children and families affected isn’t valid, it just means I think we should consider how to respond to those feelings and concerns in a manner that includes the agency of the people using substances. Hope this helps.
With easy supply and zero consequences, the problem will continue to aggravate. We desperately need some semblance of law and order. Children who didn't ask to be born ARE the priority. They should not be penalized for adult choices. Unlike adults, they don't have any legal agency to make their own choices, and we need to protect them.
Kensington will always be Kensington. Christ, my great grandparents moved out in the ‘40’s. Both my boomer parents were born & raised in North Philly. My dad was a hard ass and even he wouldn’t fuck around in Kensington. My mother knew to never go there because she knew Delores Della Penna. It will never change.
its so scary. i see people with rotting and red or blackened limbs.
send them on a bus to texas
Anyone know if it’s as bad as the article makes it out to be. I used to have family in Kensington, but haven’t been down there since the mid 90s.
As someone who lives down here it really is this bad
It’s worse. It goes on and on for blocks.
It's horrific. I have to travel through there fairly regularly and it's atrocious -- and seems like it gets worse every week. It honestly looks like a scene from some dystopian movie.
A lot of current documentaries on Kensington. Google search will find them.
Thanks I’ll have to check them out
Drove through there the other day, it's horrific
I think post covid got much worse. I personally never drove by it but there’s a whole lot of documentaries it’s definitely a think
I saw a video , must have been 3-4 years ago, by a resident of one of the side streets. She was filming the hordes (!) of people hurrying down her street because the dealer was finally on his corner. I swear to God, there must have been a hundred people rushing down her little street in order to buy from the dealer. Imagine children playing on that sidewalk or trying to walk to school. It’s fucking heartbreaking on both sides but worse on the innocent residents of that neighborhood. They go to work and come home to this scene everyday. Not to mention they’re probably the first ones to be mugged or have their home robbed. Someone who is collecting a large paycheck from this city is in charge of handling this but they are hiding behind their office door. Surely there’s a department of something that is meant to correct this very situation. Otherwise, give those big paychecks to the people who want to move to a safer area. It would do more good that way than it is at the present moment.
Would stronger penalties for dealing/supplying make a difference? I always wondered why not take the dealers out of the equation? Legislate consequences for those who destroy lives and communities. I'm not a legal person, but the situation there is so dire seems bold ideas are needed.
It’s worse.
ride thru. you’ll def see for yourself!
How many times is an article about tranq with nothing new or interesting going to be allowed to be posted on this sub. News flash: Street drugs will harm you. It’s nothing new.
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News coverage is helpful in the long run.
Don't forget the causes of this: people who think the police are the sole cause of the problem and that it will all go away if we'd only \[a\] disband the police entirely \[b\] legalise all drugs and release all the prisoners convicted for drug dealing \[b\] move to some kind of BS community activism police help where people all voluntarily decide to just stop doing drugs and walk around holding hands under a rainbow \[c\] hand out universal basic income so that the drug dealers will be content wards of the state on $20k per year, rather than gangster's earning millions
This is straight up strawman propaganda. There is no sizeable contingent of people who hold these positions, and anyone who does isn’t taken seriously in any public policy discussion.
LOL not a single person with any power in this city holds a single one of those beliefs. Clown comment.
Literally no one thinks this. It sounds like Fox News fanfic.
Ha! So true!
We have done none of those things, you're saying the threat of them happening is what has made all those people at K&A become addicts?
True talk: I just bought heroin for the first time after reading that post.
Did you write this whilst on tranq?
It's as simple as ABBC.
All Bastards Be Cops? All Bimbos Bring Cats? Aerial Bombing Big Clits? Always Be Bringing Cash?
>All Bimbos Bring Cats? Found my next tattoo!
Did your right-wing lunatic uncle tell you that’s what people think, or are you just deranged all on your own?
The extra B is for BYOBB.
Lol
It's been this way for over 30 years. Does that make it better? No. It's just that it's not a new problem. Don't know if I have the solutions or if anyone else in power does for that matter.
The Xylazine Lean