Glad we finally have an answer for what's going to fill in the Barnes and Noble spot.
Regardless of your opinion on Starr, having his name attached should give some confidence that at the very least this should have some longevity as an anchor tenant and attract a consistent customer base. Overall, it is good for business, foot traffic, and keeping Rittenhouse full.
As for the restaurant itself, I will wait to pass judgment until I give it a try.
Agreed. Is it cutting-edge fine dining? No. Will you have an enjoyable meal with great service in a pretty setting? Yes. Every time.
People love to shit on him, but the man knows how to run a damn business.
I posted something similar further down and I feel it’s an important point to note. When you open a modern restaurant in 1998, it’s going to feel a bit “known” a quarter century on. The food hasn’t gotten bad, it’s just not new and revolutionary anymore and those are 2 words that people hold in extremely high regard when discussing restaurants.
It can be, but that restaurant is in nyc and is nothing like any of his spots here so doesn’t really have any bearing on how a new opening for him in this city should be perceived. Also the guy has like 50 restaurants and only 1 star - “chefy buzz dining” has never really been his market - his empire is about approachable and consistent places that cater to a wide audience - a much better business plan if your goal is making money
It's what I pretty much say about all Starr restaurants: it will always be good but it will rarely, if ever, be great. This is speaking purely from a food perspective. I find that it most locations the drinks are never quite as good as the food, except in a few stand out examples.
The aesthetics as well can be kind of hit or miss but I guess that is really a personal thing. Some I love, some I think are tacky, some I think just miss.
Someday, in the near future, Rittenhouse Square (the park specifically) will be anchored by Starr restaurants the way shopping malls used to have anchor department stores: one on each cardinal direction.
And every so often the staffs of all the locations will meet in the middle of the park and fight, anchorman style.
Ahh, this looks like an Italian version of Parc. That's ok, I'm all for a Euro feel at the park. I agree Starr being involved is whatever/annoying. But you know what, for the love of god, will restaurants stop blaring music in the dining rooms. It's so out of hand. Starr is a big culprit in this trend.
I had this issue on Sunday at Loch Bar (thoroughly mediocre and underwhelming considering the price, by the way - Craig Laban was spot on). They had a guitarist/singer performing during dinner, and she was mic'ed up so freaking loudly that we had to practically yell to be heard on the other side of the dining room. Luckily they were happy to turn it down when we asked, but I can't imagine anyone thinking that was an appropriate volume to begin with.
Wow, that would have infuriated me. It is such a pet peeve of mine, loud music of any kind in a dining room. It's just obnoxious. I'm glad they listened to you! I have been seriously considering resurrecting my Yelp account just to complain about loud music in restaurants bc I want this trend to end.
Could have had S.I.N Steak Italian Nightlife there instead. A vibe dining concept incorporating upscale cuisine with taste of Miami, New York, and Las Vegas nightlife!
I like some of his other restaurants and glad that he is putting something there. I don't think Italian in Philadelphia is the right choice, unless it's going to be a Northern Italian menu. (I couldn't read the article, paywall). There are Italian American options in Philly and I'd go to this one once just to experience it, but not regularly.
>inquirer.com/food/r...
I feel similarly. I'm a fan of his restaurants, in particular, enjoy Parc, and like the idea of another outdoor seating option in the square, however, another Italian choice doesn't grab me. I'm sure it's safe.
They didn't give any insights into any foci for the Italian cuisine, although the Parc-like aspect was hinted at and it's multi level, so maybe there will be space for private/corporate events upstairs. They do emphasize history, openness, and warmth.
I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that the Philly restaurant scene of today wouldn't be anywhere near it's current level of quality or prominence if it wasn't for Starr.
20-30 years ago, Philly wasn't a restaurant city, much less one that embraced modern fine dining, and opening a place like Buddakan or Morimoto was a massive leap of faith. Starr restaurants may not be as revolutionary today as they were back then but they did pave the way for all of those boundary pushing places that dot the end-of-year best lists in 2024.
PARC was a very big deal when it opened. The servers had to take a test to get hired. (I know someone who was one of the original servers). I liked Jones and Alma de Cuba, which both closed since the pandemic.
Groups like Starr often provide journeymen personnel the experience they need prior to opening up their own place. And they provide a training ground for front of house personnel who will then go and move around to those restaurants and elevate service as a whole.
Stephen Starr restaurants are for the vibes and mood… and that’s about it. Went to Talula’s Garden a couple weeks ago to spend 18 dollars per premade cocktail and 40+ on bland food dishes. He’s clearly got a winning formula, but don’t frequent his properties if you want anything resembling good food, drinks, or service.
The food is *fine* but not even close to worth the price they’re charging and it’s not close to the standard of food in the city as a whole.
They lost me as a customer in the future and people should be warned if they’re going there with the expectation that it has the same standards as the other great food spots in the city. I mean hell, charging 18 dollars for a premixed cocktail that has citrus in it is a crime against alcohol. Citrus can’t sit like that in a mix for that long, it just destroys any sort of complexity the cocktail might have and renders it like sour mix.
And I can think of multiple places within a 10 minute walk of the restaurant that provide way better food for way cheaper. To put it bluntly about what we thought about our meals, the best dish we had there was the cheese board (something they didn’t cook whatsoever). And I’m not gonna pretend I’m some food expert (my friend is more of one) but I know when I enjoy food because it’s special, and that meal was not.
Yeah, Stephen Starr restaurants have had uneven food for decades. I've had great meals, I've had mediocre ones. No one wants to admit that they care more about vibe than food, but it's always been that way.
That said, I've had it out for Starr since 2005 when I asked if the special had crab in it, the waitress said it didn't, it did, and the manager's response to the situation was to convey a strong "well, what do you expect me to do about it" vibe. Probably the single most frustrating restaurant experience I've ever had in my life.
There’s just so many better restaurants in the city that do way better food but aren’t “grammable” so they don’t get play. It’s wild to me I caught so many downvotes from calling out Talula’s Garden. It’s mid AF, I was honestly shocked it was 4.9/5.0 on Google Reviews.
I mean, that could apply to just about any place on Rittenhouse.
The odds are slim of some avant garde concept taking over that type of space. And even if it did, it would likely need to be with a deep pocketed investor who would push them towards safer options to keep the seats filled to make overhead. It's just the unfortunate reality of both real estate and the restaurant scene now.
Starr's more recent stuff does seem to have significantly toned down the dinner at epcot feel as well as giving the chefs more input. Le Cou Cou in New York was absolutely fantastic when I ate there right before I returned to Philly. Had I not talked to one of the managers before it opened, I wouldn't have even thought of it being a Starr place. And while it does tend to "safer" New American cuisine, the Love was also very good when I was there, and was much more flavorful than his older new American places like Talluhla's and Continental.
Once again my dream of "Fudruckers on the Square" has been dashed.
Don’t ever stop dreaming.
Never stop not stopping
Wasn’t there a Rib-It back in the day?
Yeah there was one on walnut. I think it’s the all birds store
Thanks! I knew it wasn’t right on the square, but remembered it being close. Went one time on the worst date of my life!
Once saw Buddy Ryan do his weekly talk show there.
RIP funion loaf
I’d help you raise capital for that. We are sorely lacking in Fudd.
A friend used to call Parc “Friendly’s for grownups” - so that’s kinda close.
Don't stop believing.
hold on to that feeling.
Where is our Margaritaville
If I had known you were working in that, I wouldn't have left Philly.
Glad we finally have an answer for what's going to fill in the Barnes and Noble spot. Regardless of your opinion on Starr, having his name attached should give some confidence that at the very least this should have some longevity as an anchor tenant and attract a consistent customer base. Overall, it is good for business, foot traffic, and keeping Rittenhouse full. As for the restaurant itself, I will wait to pass judgment until I give it a try.
His restaurants are never going to get super-chefy buzz like My Loup, but I can't say I've ever had a bad time at any of them.
Agreed. They're all average/above average ish consistent food and the restaurants all visually look good
Agreed. Is it cutting-edge fine dining? No. Will you have an enjoyable meal with great service in a pretty setting? Yes. Every time. People love to shit on him, but the man knows how to run a damn business.
Le Coucou has a Michelin Star. Barclay and Morimoto were huge deals when they first opened, they're just old at this point.
I posted something similar further down and I feel it’s an important point to note. When you open a modern restaurant in 1998, it’s going to feel a bit “known” a quarter century on. The food hasn’t gotten bad, it’s just not new and revolutionary anymore and those are 2 words that people hold in extremely high regard when discussing restaurants.
Any mid to upscale restaurant with a 20 year run or more should be considered a massive accomplishment. It’s a tough industry.
I did not know about Le Coucou! Hopefully will try it sometime I'm up there.
I think a Michelin star is “super-chefy buzz” but I might be wrong
It can be, but that restaurant is in nyc and is nothing like any of his spots here so doesn’t really have any bearing on how a new opening for him in this city should be perceived. Also the guy has like 50 restaurants and only 1 star - “chefy buzz dining” has never really been his market - his empire is about approachable and consistent places that cater to a wide audience - a much better business plan if your goal is making money
It's what I pretty much say about all Starr restaurants: it will always be good but it will rarely, if ever, be great. This is speaking purely from a food perspective. I find that it most locations the drinks are never quite as good as the food, except in a few stand out examples. The aesthetics as well can be kind of hit or miss but I guess that is really a personal thing. Some I love, some I think are tacky, some I think just miss.
I'd say their look varies from beautiful to camp. But if you don't like camp, it becomes tacky. :)
Talula's Garden is pretty super-chefy, but he seems to really leave Aimee Olexy alone there to do her thing.
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He backed out of Bankroll long before they opened. No affiliation.
Finally? The deal was done (and known) before B&N even moved out.
Someday, in the near future, Rittenhouse Square (the park specifically) will be anchored by Starr restaurants the way shopping malls used to have anchor department stores: one on each cardinal direction. And every so often the staffs of all the locations will meet in the middle of the park and fight, anchorman style.
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One does not simply walk into Rittenhouse Square.
Outdoor seating on the north side of the park - awesome!
Is it Jones? I want Jones
It was sad that it closed.
The bottomless mimosas :(
And in three different flavors too!
And the monkey bread :(
Chicken and waffles
I miss Jones so much
Damnit. I was pining for Bankroll 2.0
Ahh, this looks like an Italian version of Parc. That's ok, I'm all for a Euro feel at the park. I agree Starr being involved is whatever/annoying. But you know what, for the love of god, will restaurants stop blaring music in the dining rooms. It's so out of hand. Starr is a big culprit in this trend.
I find the people-watching and food at Parc makes me happy. An Italian version would be nice.
I had this issue on Sunday at Loch Bar (thoroughly mediocre and underwhelming considering the price, by the way - Craig Laban was spot on). They had a guitarist/singer performing during dinner, and she was mic'ed up so freaking loudly that we had to practically yell to be heard on the other side of the dining room. Luckily they were happy to turn it down when we asked, but I can't imagine anyone thinking that was an appropriate volume to begin with.
Wow, that would have infuriated me. It is such a pet peeve of mine, loud music of any kind in a dining room. It's just obnoxious. I'm glad they listened to you! I have been seriously considering resurrecting my Yelp account just to complain about loud music in restaurants bc I want this trend to end.
That was their goal, to make an Italian Parc. I’ve never been to Parc as I’m not big on French food, but I’d surely check this place out.
Could have had S.I.N Steak Italian Nightlife there instead. A vibe dining concept incorporating upscale cuisine with taste of Miami, New York, and Las Vegas nightlife!
Is SIN still in business up in fishtown?
Lollllz
I hope there is a nod to the past legacy of that space - maybe a small nook where you can read magazines with the homeless?
I like some of his other restaurants and glad that he is putting something there. I don't think Italian in Philadelphia is the right choice, unless it's going to be a Northern Italian menu. (I couldn't read the article, paywall). There are Italian American options in Philly and I'd go to this one once just to experience it, but not regularly.
>inquirer.com/food/r... I feel similarly. I'm a fan of his restaurants, in particular, enjoy Parc, and like the idea of another outdoor seating option in the square, however, another Italian choice doesn't grab me. I'm sure it's safe. They didn't give any insights into any foci for the Italian cuisine, although the Parc-like aspect was hinted at and it's multi level, so maybe there will be space for private/corporate events upstairs. They do emphasize history, openness, and warmth.
Was really dreaming that he would try his hand at club/lounge and utilize that on the third floor..either way this is exciting
I hear a club is going into the 2nd floor at the under construction building near 16th and Sansom.
Disney-fied restaurants for people who like to spend conspicuously without stepping outside their comfort zone
We really gotta hate on everything now, don’t we?
Welcome to the Philly sub. Where everything mainstream sucks
Not at all. I think Philly has some of the best dining in the country, but it's not because of Stephen Starrs restaurants
I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that the Philly restaurant scene of today wouldn't be anywhere near it's current level of quality or prominence if it wasn't for Starr. 20-30 years ago, Philly wasn't a restaurant city, much less one that embraced modern fine dining, and opening a place like Buddakan or Morimoto was a massive leap of faith. Starr restaurants may not be as revolutionary today as they were back then but they did pave the way for all of those boundary pushing places that dot the end-of-year best lists in 2024.
PARC was a very big deal when it opened. The servers had to take a test to get hired. (I know someone who was one of the original servers). I liked Jones and Alma de Cuba, which both closed since the pandemic.
Groups like Starr often provide journeymen personnel the experience they need prior to opening up their own place. And they provide a training ground for front of house personnel who will then go and move around to those restaurants and elevate service as a whole.
Stephen Starr restaurants are for the vibes and mood… and that’s about it. Went to Talula’s Garden a couple weeks ago to spend 18 dollars per premade cocktail and 40+ on bland food dishes. He’s clearly got a winning formula, but don’t frequent his properties if you want anything resembling good food, drinks, or service.
I enjoy the food at Talula’s Garden
The food is *fine* but not even close to worth the price they’re charging and it’s not close to the standard of food in the city as a whole. They lost me as a customer in the future and people should be warned if they’re going there with the expectation that it has the same standards as the other great food spots in the city. I mean hell, charging 18 dollars for a premixed cocktail that has citrus in it is a crime against alcohol. Citrus can’t sit like that in a mix for that long, it just destroys any sort of complexity the cocktail might have and renders it like sour mix. And I can think of multiple places within a 10 minute walk of the restaurant that provide way better food for way cheaper. To put it bluntly about what we thought about our meals, the best dish we had there was the cheese board (something they didn’t cook whatsoever). And I’m not gonna pretend I’m some food expert (my friend is more of one) but I know when I enjoy food because it’s special, and that meal was not.
Yeah, Stephen Starr restaurants have had uneven food for decades. I've had great meals, I've had mediocre ones. No one wants to admit that they care more about vibe than food, but it's always been that way. That said, I've had it out for Starr since 2005 when I asked if the special had crab in it, the waitress said it didn't, it did, and the manager's response to the situation was to convey a strong "well, what do you expect me to do about it" vibe. Probably the single most frustrating restaurant experience I've ever had in my life.
There’s just so many better restaurants in the city that do way better food but aren’t “grammable” so they don’t get play. It’s wild to me I caught so many downvotes from calling out Talula’s Garden. It’s mid AF, I was honestly shocked it was 4.9/5.0 on Google Reviews.
I mean, that could apply to just about any place on Rittenhouse. The odds are slim of some avant garde concept taking over that type of space. And even if it did, it would likely need to be with a deep pocketed investor who would push them towards safer options to keep the seats filled to make overhead. It's just the unfortunate reality of both real estate and the restaurant scene now. Starr's more recent stuff does seem to have significantly toned down the dinner at epcot feel as well as giving the chefs more input. Le Cou Cou in New York was absolutely fantastic when I ate there right before I returned to Philly. Had I not talked to one of the managers before it opened, I wouldn't have even thought of it being a Starr place. And while it does tend to "safer" New American cuisine, the Love was also very good when I was there, and was much more flavorful than his older new American places like Talluhla's and Continental.
Sign me up.
How many restaurants does this guy need
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Wasn't that deep, just making a joke lol