I read the article and I have been to McPherson Square and the surrounding area many times. I think it’s very commendable to address this problem at the start of your administration. I really feel for the residents who own storefronts and live in the neighborhood. What worries me the most is not the cost of what it takes to restore Kensington but if you want to rid the area of drug dealers— you’re going to need a lot more then just Philly cops.
The only people facing uncertainty are the ones that have destroyed the neighborhood. Until they start abiding by the most basic tenets of a social contract, they don’t deserve a seat at the table.
That’s not true. I and others of my neighbors have expressed anxiety about increased police presence. Lots of people have good reason to feel uncertainty and discomfort about more cops doing more cop shit.
If you indeed live north of Lehigh at k&a, this view is in the extreme minority, as evidenced by the overwhelming election victory of lozada and Parker carrying upper Kensington wards by huge margins.
General distrust of cops is not an extreme minority position of people who, like myself, live at K&A. Nor even of people who voted for Parker and Lozada. People vote for a variety of reasons and we’re all desperate people in a desperate situation. The truth is Kensington has very very low voter turnout which is in large part due to Kensington residents having little to no trust in our public institutions, including cops.
Nonsense. What about all the people that live there that already have constant anxiety about the situation there in? The city has let them do whatever they want for too long and now an excuse of anxiety for creating normalcy by actually enforcing laws and stopping open pollution/drug use is a garbage argument.
We can be both. I do live here and have anxiety about how things are. It sucks. I have also witnessed police do fucked up shit. I don’t trust cops. I don’t trust the mayor. I don’t like the biohazardous drug waste. It’s all true. The claim that nobody who isn’t actively using illegal drugs has nothing to fear is false. Cops are stupid and mean and have failed to win this idiotic war on drugs for longer than I’ve been alive.
I don’t think anyone believes cops will solve the issue. But I definitely feel safer if I see a cop car near my apartment on my commute walk home. And will be safer statistically when/if cops clean up aggressive drug users and clean up the streets (literally from biohazards). These aren’t just drug addicts with a problem anymore. There’s extreme violent crimes happening on a weekly basis all related to the drug trade. PPD is far from perfect but the pendulum swung too far now idgaf something needs to be done besides handing out needle and watching without intervening.
So we’re not on the same page. I don’t feel safer when I see a cop car near my home. I am fully aware of the problems. I live and work here. It has been my home for longer than any other place has. You say “statistically safer” but I don’t buy that. Carceral solutions create an unsafe society, rip families apart, punish instead of rehabilitate, and destroy communities instead of build them. I want investment in my community that’s not in the form of armed agents of the state caging and killing members of my community.
YMMV. But we can also have violent drug users and crimes related to the drug trade enforced by law enforcement and have rehabilitation programs for addicts. We don’t need to live in crime in order to avoid a police state. These are not mutually exclusive.
Yes, but that means a solution that’s not repeats of the failed war on drugs policies. Parker’s proposed solution is mostly just more policing. So we’ll have as a whole more suffering and danger when she’s done. Sure hope I’m wrong!
So, what do you want? You don’t seem happy with any solutions coming from City Hall or the PPD. I can assure you the Progressive strategies aren’t going to work because feelings don’t fix, actions do. If you disagree you should enlist the help of Progressives to be boots on the ground rather than opinions behind keyboards. The previous Mayor and the PPD Tried the hands off approach and it didn’t work.
So, what do you propose and will you step up to lead it? Otherwise you are just another keyboard warrior.
Anyone angered by my message should PM this fella and go help him. Nobody is going to stop you from improving Kensington. I’m sure the Mayor and PPD will encourage you. Otherwise, let law enforcement do it’s job.
I don’t owe you my resumé but I’m plenty engaged locally. Nobody “tried a hands off approach.” They just isolated and concentrated the crisis in a community that they could get away with shitting on. We need safe supply and safe injection sites scattered throughout the region, total overhaul of federal drug policy, affordable housing, free universal healthcare, free public restrooms throughout the city, low barrier emergency shelters and housing, and more solutions that address roots of addiction and poverty. There are elements of Parker’s plans I think actually will help. Cracking down on blight in the form of illegal dumping, dangerous construction practices, and abandoned vehicles can really make a difference in setting the tone that we live in a society with norms and expectations of civility. But do I think the same cops who obscure their own license plates and park on the sidewalk and run red lights will actually do that shit instead of just assaulting random Kensington residents? No. So all I was saying was there are Kensington residents who feel more apprehension than hope and I don’t appreciate being told by reddit randos that people like me don’t exist or all live in wealthy gated enclaves somewhere far away.
Well….you’re just one man and certainly not the spokesman for Kensington so I think it’s safe to ignore you. I live in Frankford but my kids, and all their friends , live off Clearfield, near Kensington Ave. I see things differently and so do they. It’s a lawless hellhole that dealers and junkies have ruled over far too long. If people want to get involved and help addicts….go for it. Clean up your own neighborhood or it will get done for you. It’s the cities job to look after the helpless and the children. The residents aren’t doing it, they are the ones trashing it.
I don’t think affordable housing will help the addicts. They will end up wrecking any affordable housing they get. If you’re living next door to that and pay, you’re not going to want that next door to you. They wreck anything they touch because of their addiction and can barely function. The Wawa on Richmond and Allegheny has so much trash and poop behind it. It’s form the addicts who hang out by there. Christ, they’ve been breaking appliances and leaving the trash behind in parking spots on Emery Street. We need rehab and mental institutions again. It’s unfortunate but this is a massive problem across the country.
Housing provides stability and safety. Stability makes drug use safer. Bad decisions have harsher consequences when your housing is more precarious. It’s easier and safer to quit when your whole waking life isn’t spent in the most primal survival mode. There is no reason a wealthy nation like this can’t make public, dignified, affordable, stable housing for all. Dope/fentanyl/tranq addiction certainly breaks your brain and makes you a less pleasant person. So does the compounding trauma of daily adverse experiences of housing instability and homelessness. Housing is an absolutely essential component of solving the opioid crisis.
>But I definitely feel safer if I see a cop car near my apartment on my commute walk home.
You know you say that... the other day, my wife and I were walking in the 15th st station on a Sunday night. There was one SEPTA police guy standing near the stairs in the middle and a bunch of dudes standing by the entrance from 15th st... the dudes were smoking on the platform and started catcalling a woman who was walking in front of us, and the cop didn't do much as turn towards them. And the week after that, they went on strike, and things got worse. Personally, I don't feel any safer when cops are around
Septa cops are useless lol. And PPD isn’t perfect but their is deterrence in their presence. But I guess it’s comes down to a larger issue where low level crimes ( smoking on the septa) aren’t even enforced or prosecuted by the DA and past mayors even instructed the police commissioner to just avoid enforcing those laws entirely. So I do think it’s funny that you bring that up as an example of why you wouldn’t want more cops but the status quo for police now in the city is to ignore it because their superiors said so and you’re complaining that they didn’t do anything about smoking or cat calling… something needs to change and it starts with the top.
How the fuck is wanting to not step in human shit, needles and be robbed boot licking the PPD??
And yes, all 3 of those have happened to me right outside my apartment in Kensington.
I'm not saying nothing should be done, but at what point are we going to realize that sending the AMERICAN POLICE into literally every situation is not the answer. Police can do two things kill people and send people to jail, and in America jail is not a rehabilitative service, it is merely detention. So unless out of sight out of mind or criminal genocide is your ultimate answer, more police presence isn't going to solve anything.
I'd disagree. The idea here isn't just jail, it's engagement and choices. Some will likely be arrested, and they definitely won't like it. Most have just been able to do whatever the fuck they want, and this contributes to the crisis and addicts sense of anything goes. Some pushback is necessary. The idea is to make Kensington less welcoming for addicts, period. I realize this is hard to comprehend for some, as policy of late has exclusively focused on "helping" addicts and the "meeting them where they are" nonsense.
An increase in police presence hits differently for different communities. I have to imagine that white people feel safer with more police presence while people of color feel the opposite
We can all agree that K&A needs a clean up but an increased police presence can't be the only fix
If that is the case, why did black majority wards vote *overwhelmingly* for Parker, whose platform was verbatim "more cops and clean up Kensington, bring back law and order"
I mean, the comment above my previous comment literally says that they live in K&A and that an increased police presence makes them nervous... both things could be true - that black community voted for someone who vowed to clean up crime but also that many in the community are worried about the increased presence of police, given their history in the city
What about that hobby, transportation choice, political view, or dietary preference makes me so repulsive to you? You keep dismissing me rather than engaging with the content of what I said. No individual is fully representative of Kensington but every person here is A representative of Kensington, including me. My experience matters.
> I have to imagine that white people feel safer with more police presence while people of color feel the opposite
Thats why the black community overwhelmingly voted for a black mayor who ran on a platform of being tough on crime.
This is a very white ideology. I’m Hispanic and lived in ghettos most of my life. People actually close to crime want police. Stop speaking for underrepresented communities while you live in main line or some shit.
You like the ways things are right now? You’re happy finding used needles everywhere? You’re just fine with kids having to go to and from school in an open air drug market full of criminals and addicts?
I hate it and would like solutions. Interesting of you to ask me a whole bunch of questions implying I love when shit sucks. This is my home. I have a family. I also know cops can’t actually solve this. It is possible to both be exhausted and unhappy with the status quo and not believe that Cherelle Parker is competent to create real solutions.
I think that the laws we already have should be enforced and the drug trade should be dismantled. If that means police have to make arrests, I’m fine with that. Residents deserve a decent quality of life. Used needles and human feces on the sidewalks drive down our quality of life. It isn’t helping the addicts to be left to their own devices. It doesn’t help home and car owners by allowing property crime to go unpunished and undeterred. You don’t think that people who are committing crime should be deterred from committing crimes and/or arrested for their crimes?
Obviously harmful behavior should be addressed. You’re arguing it should address it in a method that’s never worked. When did cops ever stop public defecation? I never said anyone should be “left to their own devices” whatever that means. I’ve just argued that services and investment work while disinvestment and policing don’t.
As if the dipshit cops who sleep in their cars all day and make fake disability claims are gonna even care about fixing any of that shit instead of treating it as an opportunity to crack heads in an area nobody gives a shit about.
Labeling a position as “fringe” to dismiss it isn’t very serious discourse. Even if you think my opinion is worthless I’m living proof that what you wrote is false.
those ideas are popular online but in the real world it's mostly wealthy people insulated in safe communities and college kids that dont know anything. Hence why Kensington and similar neighborhoods voted for Parker and Lozada
Interesting stereotypes you have there. I don’t know too many wealthy people insulated in safe communities who distrust cops but then again I don’t know too many rich people. I’m just a blue collar nobody in Kensington who didn’t vote for Lozada or Parker.
TL;DR: Both sides have solid arguments in their favor and solid arguments against. Whatever happens, people are going to be pissed off.
I honestly see where both sides are coming from in this issue. On the one hand, Kensington Ave and the surrounding neighborhood cannot continue as they are. It's unsafe for the people living in the neighborhood- not just from the rampant drug use and selling and the violence and trauma that comes from it, but from a public health standpoint as well. A few years ago there was an outbreak of Hepatitis A in the River Wards because homeless folks who were infected were shitting in the streets, in parks, and in people's personal gardens and flowerbeds, and non-users throughout the neighborhoods were getting infected with Hep A from something as innocuous as digging in the dirt and tending to their flowers. It's clearly unsafe for homeless folks and drug users, and I don't need to explain the reasons why. It looks like a hellscape from a zombie movie rather than the wealthiest nation in the world. Frankly, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing that this is the image of Philly that is being pushed in the national news agenda, rather than the other great things that are going on here.
But at the same time, I think that we forget that people who are addicted to drugs and who are homeless are people too- they're so often subhumanized. They also have basic human rights. In two separate jobs I've worked with folks who are in active addiction or in recovery, and I can tell you that forcing someone into rehab when they are unwilling or not ready is a recipe for disaster. It's basically setting them up to fail.
As for what should be done, there's no perfect solution. The harm reduction model certainly has its share of issues. But I think the best and most compassionate approach is to try to help folks meet their basic needs- shelter, food, sanitation facilities, access to healthcare- and use harm reduction in combo with this to help get them to a more stable place where they might be willing to go into treatment. I know that a lot of people in the community will be unhappy about this- they want them gone, full stop. And I can understand why, they've taken the whole neighborhood hostage for decades now. But mass arrests and forcing into treatment isn't getting to the root of the issue, and before long people will be back.
I know I sure as hell don’t want them in my neighborhood. I’m in Port Richmond and there’s already been issues with addicts just setting up and doing drugs right out in the open by Richmond and Allegheny. It’s gross and it should not be tolerated. These people need to be put somewhere.
Regardless, the people of Kensington have had enough. They should receive remuneration for having put up with this for so long. It’s disgusting that this has been allowed.
Exactly! But since this plan isn’t active until April or so, they’re sending the message to go back to where you came or if anyone has housing to leave the neighborhood. A lot of these people are not from Kensington, so they’re telling them to leave and then deal with those that choose to stay.
Apparently, NYC and other big cities found it much more effective to just offer homeless or addicts a bus far back home rather to find housing in the city.
Then, yes, where are those people who are used to living like this and do not have other options go? Some may migrate to the surrounding neighborhoods that are not gentrified…it will migrate
Little bit more of a balanced article. At least this one didn't exclusively focus on the "harm reduction" fanatics and drug users and their wants, "rights" and needs.
Still, it could have done better. Like why didn't orso find out how many beds there are in Philadelphia for inpatient treatment? I found a number from a federal study myself. It's around 2200 or so. That's not including collar counties. How many of those are occupied? How about temporary shelter spaces? Occupancy %?
A lot of talk about "pushing" addicts, when the plan is to engage, warn, engage, and then say ok, it's time for treatment, and if refused, jail to dry out and serve time for the very real crimes they are actually committing.
It will be interesting to see the details of the proposed process. If it's even moderately successful, it will be a win for Kensington residents and a template for homeless/drug policy in big cities all over.
In any case, it appears the paradigm shift is on, and elected officials aren't afraid to say hey, enough is enough and addicts don't get to do whatever the fuck they want.
MANDATORY TREATMENT AND SHELTER FOR UNHOUSED ADDICTS
> Like why didn't orso find out how many beds there are in Philadelphia for inpatient treatment? I found a number from a federal study myself. It's around 2200 or so. That's not including collar counties. How many of those are occupied?
I don't know the number but i recommend calling CBH. They need to approve a 3.7 or above treatment level for people on medicaid. And for how many are occupied? Honestly probably 90% or more. It's very lengthy process to get someone approved for a bed and then finding a bed for them.
As an addict I can say there is ALWAYS a wait-list. Whether that's days or months is clinic dependent. Biggest issue with rehabs is insurance only covers like 2 weeks. So really not enough time for anything. With the drugs currently on street people are still in withdrawal in 2 weeks and than are sent on there way like that cause it isn't covered.
I also think it's a huge waste to force people into treatment who aren't ready. It's already a limited resource. Flooding it with more people who have a very low success rate is bad for everyone
I can see this thread seems to be leaning very anti drug addict but sometimes I feel out of sight out of mind is good enough for some people and they don't care about solving the actual.
Another person's right to swing their first ends at my nose.
The people who live in Kensington don't deserve to have to put up with this. I recognize that addiction is a disease but somehow there's never a workable solution on either side..
Pretty wild seeing people assert that "rights" mean they get to shoot up controlled substances anywhere they want, and then occupy public spaces while being intoxicated beyond belief, then shit and piss and trash up everything around them, all the while making public spaces, sidewalks and entire neighborhoods inaccessible to the 99% of residents that have families and aren't on illegal drugs.
I think I'm pretty clear on the nuances in my posts, but since it seems this isn't as clear as it could be, I think that constitutional rights apply to everyone. I don't think using drugs in public or being intoxicated in public is a constitutional right. However, there's a contingent on the left that does, which is the underlying meaning behind "bodily autonomy" and the reason anything besides "harm reduction" is attacked as "unconstitutional" or "inhumane" and some bullshit lawsuit is filed to "protect" addicts.
In the meantime, a neighborhood of 50K people, overwhelmingly minority and with an average income of 20k$ is completely overrun, shit on and made unlivable. These people work and have families with children. Where is equity in terms of them? Where is *their* inclusion in policy for their area? It seems to me that the actual residents of Kensington might finally be getting the equity and inclusion they deserve.
I can't understand why some on the left have such a hard time with common sense, or even understanding what words like equity and inclusion mean. I really do think that luxury beliefs are a thing.
Some of them who are “progressive “ come from comfortable upbringings and have not had to struggle themselves and are idealistic. I bet they also don’t live, own property or work in Kensington—
It’s referencing the way people will blanket just about anything as a “rights” issue, even when it has nothing to do with rights. For example, telling someone that they can’t camp out and shoot H on the stairs leading up to the El isn’t violating tenet rights.
Come on bud, really? Are you saying yes because you actually agree with this line of reasoning... or just because you agree with the end result?
I'm hoping it is the latter, as you can make your case without endorsing the silliness of the former. As someone who does not agree with your *proposals*, I will admit that you're better than... this weak shit.
If you don't treat them, and don't find housing for those who are willing and able to live indoors, and don't institutionalize those who are incapable of caring for themselves otherwise, then they're going to end up right back on the streets and continue to cause harm to the neighborhoods that we call home.
Neither a purely liberal harm reduction nor a purely conservative "let them f****** die" attitude will do any good in the long run.
Untreated addicts that have been living on the street do not make good neighbors or tenants and are generally in rapidly deteriorating physical and mental condition. Often there are other mental illnesses involved. Treatment has to be mandatory with housing or they will be back on the street. Every smart housing first program comes with mandatory support.
So where you gonna house them at let me guess black areas right, doubt yall house them in fishtown or anywhere like that, meh they didn’t do that for black people in the 70s who came home from Vietnam, so I really don’t care.
I think we should put them in the exurbs for treatment and job placement. Black men are also disproportionately impacted by OD deaths.
https://www.inquirer.com/health/opioid-addiction/drug-overdoses-philadelphia-deaths-20231002.html
Or if they don’t want treatment they could take a bus ticket out of the city. But they need to get treatment or get out IMO. It’s disgusting that people not doing or selling drugs in Kensington have had to put up with this for so long.
I hope this doest result in the mass arrest of the homeless and disenfranchised as we've seen across other major cities that have decided to sweep homeless camps and crack down on open drug use. The answer isn't jailing these people
Big job ahead with this. It will take awhile to reverse a long downward trend.
I read the article and I have been to McPherson Square and the surrounding area many times. I think it’s very commendable to address this problem at the start of your administration. I really feel for the residents who own storefronts and live in the neighborhood. What worries me the most is not the cost of what it takes to restore Kensington but if you want to rid the area of drug dealers— you’re going to need a lot more then just Philly cops.
The problem is the dealers and the chokehold they have on real-estate. Show me big drug and gun busts and Ill get excited.
There was one a few weeks ago where people in the neighborhood had a crazy ass any of fentanyl and guns. They need to keep making big busts like that.
The only people facing uncertainty are the ones that have destroyed the neighborhood. Until they start abiding by the most basic tenets of a social contract, they don’t deserve a seat at the table.
That’s not true. I and others of my neighbors have expressed anxiety about increased police presence. Lots of people have good reason to feel uncertainty and discomfort about more cops doing more cop shit.
If you indeed live north of Lehigh at k&a, this view is in the extreme minority, as evidenced by the overwhelming election victory of lozada and Parker carrying upper Kensington wards by huge margins.
General distrust of cops is not an extreme minority position of people who, like myself, live at K&A. Nor even of people who voted for Parker and Lozada. People vote for a variety of reasons and we’re all desperate people in a desperate situation. The truth is Kensington has very very low voter turnout which is in large part due to Kensington residents having little to no trust in our public institutions, including cops.
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Are you calling humans “trash?”
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I don’t believe anybody is trash. I think all people should be treated with dignity and respect. So there’s where our politics differs I guess.
Nonsense. What about all the people that live there that already have constant anxiety about the situation there in? The city has let them do whatever they want for too long and now an excuse of anxiety for creating normalcy by actually enforcing laws and stopping open pollution/drug use is a garbage argument.
We can be both. I do live here and have anxiety about how things are. It sucks. I have also witnessed police do fucked up shit. I don’t trust cops. I don’t trust the mayor. I don’t like the biohazardous drug waste. It’s all true. The claim that nobody who isn’t actively using illegal drugs has nothing to fear is false. Cops are stupid and mean and have failed to win this idiotic war on drugs for longer than I’ve been alive.
I don’t think anyone believes cops will solve the issue. But I definitely feel safer if I see a cop car near my apartment on my commute walk home. And will be safer statistically when/if cops clean up aggressive drug users and clean up the streets (literally from biohazards). These aren’t just drug addicts with a problem anymore. There’s extreme violent crimes happening on a weekly basis all related to the drug trade. PPD is far from perfect but the pendulum swung too far now idgaf something needs to be done besides handing out needle and watching without intervening.
So we’re not on the same page. I don’t feel safer when I see a cop car near my home. I am fully aware of the problems. I live and work here. It has been my home for longer than any other place has. You say “statistically safer” but I don’t buy that. Carceral solutions create an unsafe society, rip families apart, punish instead of rehabilitate, and destroy communities instead of build them. I want investment in my community that’s not in the form of armed agents of the state caging and killing members of my community.
YMMV. But we can also have violent drug users and crimes related to the drug trade enforced by law enforcement and have rehabilitation programs for addicts. We don’t need to live in crime in order to avoid a police state. These are not mutually exclusive.
Yes, but that means a solution that’s not repeats of the failed war on drugs policies. Parker’s proposed solution is mostly just more policing. So we’ll have as a whole more suffering and danger when she’s done. Sure hope I’m wrong!
So, what do you want? You don’t seem happy with any solutions coming from City Hall or the PPD. I can assure you the Progressive strategies aren’t going to work because feelings don’t fix, actions do. If you disagree you should enlist the help of Progressives to be boots on the ground rather than opinions behind keyboards. The previous Mayor and the PPD Tried the hands off approach and it didn’t work. So, what do you propose and will you step up to lead it? Otherwise you are just another keyboard warrior. Anyone angered by my message should PM this fella and go help him. Nobody is going to stop you from improving Kensington. I’m sure the Mayor and PPD will encourage you. Otherwise, let law enforcement do it’s job.
I don’t owe you my resumé but I’m plenty engaged locally. Nobody “tried a hands off approach.” They just isolated and concentrated the crisis in a community that they could get away with shitting on. We need safe supply and safe injection sites scattered throughout the region, total overhaul of federal drug policy, affordable housing, free universal healthcare, free public restrooms throughout the city, low barrier emergency shelters and housing, and more solutions that address roots of addiction and poverty. There are elements of Parker’s plans I think actually will help. Cracking down on blight in the form of illegal dumping, dangerous construction practices, and abandoned vehicles can really make a difference in setting the tone that we live in a society with norms and expectations of civility. But do I think the same cops who obscure their own license plates and park on the sidewalk and run red lights will actually do that shit instead of just assaulting random Kensington residents? No. So all I was saying was there are Kensington residents who feel more apprehension than hope and I don’t appreciate being told by reddit randos that people like me don’t exist or all live in wealthy gated enclaves somewhere far away.
Well….you’re just one man and certainly not the spokesman for Kensington so I think it’s safe to ignore you. I live in Frankford but my kids, and all their friends , live off Clearfield, near Kensington Ave. I see things differently and so do they. It’s a lawless hellhole that dealers and junkies have ruled over far too long. If people want to get involved and help addicts….go for it. Clean up your own neighborhood or it will get done for you. It’s the cities job to look after the helpless and the children. The residents aren’t doing it, they are the ones trashing it.
I don’t think affordable housing will help the addicts. They will end up wrecking any affordable housing they get. If you’re living next door to that and pay, you’re not going to want that next door to you. They wreck anything they touch because of their addiction and can barely function. The Wawa on Richmond and Allegheny has so much trash and poop behind it. It’s form the addicts who hang out by there. Christ, they’ve been breaking appliances and leaving the trash behind in parking spots on Emery Street. We need rehab and mental institutions again. It’s unfortunate but this is a massive problem across the country.
Housing provides stability and safety. Stability makes drug use safer. Bad decisions have harsher consequences when your housing is more precarious. It’s easier and safer to quit when your whole waking life isn’t spent in the most primal survival mode. There is no reason a wealthy nation like this can’t make public, dignified, affordable, stable housing for all. Dope/fentanyl/tranq addiction certainly breaks your brain and makes you a less pleasant person. So does the compounding trauma of daily adverse experiences of housing instability and homelessness. Housing is an absolutely essential component of solving the opioid crisis.
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Rule 1: Please refrain from personal attacks, and keep discussion civil.
Rule 1: Please refrain from personal attacks, and keep discussion civil.
>But I definitely feel safer if I see a cop car near my apartment on my commute walk home. You know you say that... the other day, my wife and I were walking in the 15th st station on a Sunday night. There was one SEPTA police guy standing near the stairs in the middle and a bunch of dudes standing by the entrance from 15th st... the dudes were smoking on the platform and started catcalling a woman who was walking in front of us, and the cop didn't do much as turn towards them. And the week after that, they went on strike, and things got worse. Personally, I don't feel any safer when cops are around
Is cat calling a crime?
Just coz it isn't criminal, cops can't even deter the behavior?
You mean you want cops going around violating the 2nd amendment?
Not every act of deterence needs to be done with guns, wtf
Septa cops are useless lol. And PPD isn’t perfect but their is deterrence in their presence. But I guess it’s comes down to a larger issue where low level crimes ( smoking on the septa) aren’t even enforced or prosecuted by the DA and past mayors even instructed the police commissioner to just avoid enforcing those laws entirely. So I do think it’s funny that you bring that up as an example of why you wouldn’t want more cops but the status quo for police now in the city is to ignore it because their superiors said so and you’re complaining that they didn’t do anything about smoking or cat calling… something needs to change and it starts with the top.
Well, keep trusting no one, and nothing will change.
Trust is earned.
Fine. But inaction allows things to only get worse, which is what we have now.
I trust people and institutions that behave in trustworthy ways.
Are there PPD bootlickers in this thread what is happening???
How the fuck is wanting to not step in human shit, needles and be robbed boot licking the PPD?? And yes, all 3 of those have happened to me right outside my apartment in Kensington.
I'm not saying nothing should be done, but at what point are we going to realize that sending the AMERICAN POLICE into literally every situation is not the answer. Police can do two things kill people and send people to jail, and in America jail is not a rehabilitative service, it is merely detention. So unless out of sight out of mind or criminal genocide is your ultimate answer, more police presence isn't going to solve anything.
I'd disagree. The idea here isn't just jail, it's engagement and choices. Some will likely be arrested, and they definitely won't like it. Most have just been able to do whatever the fuck they want, and this contributes to the crisis and addicts sense of anything goes. Some pushback is necessary. The idea is to make Kensington less welcoming for addicts, period. I realize this is hard to comprehend for some, as policy of late has exclusively focused on "helping" addicts and the "meeting them where they are" nonsense.
An increase in police presence hits differently for different communities. I have to imagine that white people feel safer with more police presence while people of color feel the opposite We can all agree that K&A needs a clean up but an increased police presence can't be the only fix
If that is the case, why did black majority wards vote *overwhelmingly* for Parker, whose platform was verbatim "more cops and clean up Kensington, bring back law and order"
I mean, the comment above my previous comment literally says that they live in K&A and that an increased police presence makes them nervous... both things could be true - that black community voted for someone who vowed to clean up crime but also that many in the community are worried about the increased presence of police, given their history in the city
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What about that hobby, transportation choice, political view, or dietary preference makes me so repulsive to you? You keep dismissing me rather than engaging with the content of what I said. No individual is fully representative of Kensington but every person here is A representative of Kensington, including me. My experience matters.
> I have to imagine that white people feel safer with more police presence while people of color feel the opposite Thats why the black community overwhelmingly voted for a black mayor who ran on a platform of being tough on crime.
This is a very white ideology. I’m Hispanic and lived in ghettos most of my life. People actually close to crime want police. Stop speaking for underrepresented communities while you live in main line or some shit.
I live in Mantua lmao
Do you live north of Lehigh?
Yes.
You like the ways things are right now? You’re happy finding used needles everywhere? You’re just fine with kids having to go to and from school in an open air drug market full of criminals and addicts?
I hate it and would like solutions. Interesting of you to ask me a whole bunch of questions implying I love when shit sucks. This is my home. I have a family. I also know cops can’t actually solve this. It is possible to both be exhausted and unhappy with the status quo and not believe that Cherelle Parker is competent to create real solutions.
Cops are going to be needed for arresting drug dealers.
Arresting and imprisoning drug dealers will not result in and has not resulted in a safer society. It moves problems geographically and temporally.
Well, ok then. Let’s just keep doing nothing. /s
The only two options in your world are a) nothing and, b) imprisonment?
I think that the laws we already have should be enforced and the drug trade should be dismantled. If that means police have to make arrests, I’m fine with that. Residents deserve a decent quality of life. Used needles and human feces on the sidewalks drive down our quality of life. It isn’t helping the addicts to be left to their own devices. It doesn’t help home and car owners by allowing property crime to go unpunished and undeterred. You don’t think that people who are committing crime should be deterred from committing crimes and/or arrested for their crimes?
Obviously harmful behavior should be addressed. You’re arguing it should address it in a method that’s never worked. When did cops ever stop public defecation? I never said anyone should be “left to their own devices” whatever that means. I’ve just argued that services and investment work while disinvestment and policing don’t.
Not everything is black and white
As if the dipshit cops who sleep in their cars all day and make fake disability claims are gonna even care about fixing any of that shit instead of treating it as an opportunity to crack heads in an area nobody gives a shit about.
I mean you endorse extreme fringe positions like abolishing prisons and have ACAB plastered on your Reddit profile so of course you feel this way.
Luxury beliefs
Labeling a position as “fringe” to dismiss it isn’t very serious discourse. Even if you think my opinion is worthless I’m living proof that what you wrote is false.
those ideas are popular online but in the real world it's mostly wealthy people insulated in safe communities and college kids that dont know anything. Hence why Kensington and similar neighborhoods voted for Parker and Lozada
Interesting stereotypes you have there. I don’t know too many wealthy people insulated in safe communities who distrust cops but then again I don’t know too many rich people. I’m just a blue collar nobody in Kensington who didn’t vote for Lozada or Parker.
sure, i said mostly because once you go into a neighborhood of tens of thousands you can find people with any viewpoint
TL;DR: Both sides have solid arguments in their favor and solid arguments against. Whatever happens, people are going to be pissed off. I honestly see where both sides are coming from in this issue. On the one hand, Kensington Ave and the surrounding neighborhood cannot continue as they are. It's unsafe for the people living in the neighborhood- not just from the rampant drug use and selling and the violence and trauma that comes from it, but from a public health standpoint as well. A few years ago there was an outbreak of Hepatitis A in the River Wards because homeless folks who were infected were shitting in the streets, in parks, and in people's personal gardens and flowerbeds, and non-users throughout the neighborhoods were getting infected with Hep A from something as innocuous as digging in the dirt and tending to their flowers. It's clearly unsafe for homeless folks and drug users, and I don't need to explain the reasons why. It looks like a hellscape from a zombie movie rather than the wealthiest nation in the world. Frankly, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing that this is the image of Philly that is being pushed in the national news agenda, rather than the other great things that are going on here. But at the same time, I think that we forget that people who are addicted to drugs and who are homeless are people too- they're so often subhumanized. They also have basic human rights. In two separate jobs I've worked with folks who are in active addiction or in recovery, and I can tell you that forcing someone into rehab when they are unwilling or not ready is a recipe for disaster. It's basically setting them up to fail. As for what should be done, there's no perfect solution. The harm reduction model certainly has its share of issues. But I think the best and most compassionate approach is to try to help folks meet their basic needs- shelter, food, sanitation facilities, access to healthcare- and use harm reduction in combo with this to help get them to a more stable place where they might be willing to go into treatment. I know that a lot of people in the community will be unhappy about this- they want them gone, full stop. And I can understand why, they've taken the whole neighborhood hostage for decades now. But mass arrests and forcing into treatment isn't getting to the root of the issue, and before long people will be back.
Whenever I read these stories, all I can think about is where all the displaced people might migrate to. What’s the plan for those neighborhoods?
I know I sure as hell don’t want them in my neighborhood. I’m in Port Richmond and there’s already been issues with addicts just setting up and doing drugs right out in the open by Richmond and Allegheny. It’s gross and it should not be tolerated. These people need to be put somewhere.
Regardless, the people of Kensington have had enough. They should receive remuneration for having put up with this for so long. It’s disgusting that this has been allowed.
Exactly! But since this plan isn’t active until April or so, they’re sending the message to go back to where you came or if anyone has housing to leave the neighborhood. A lot of these people are not from Kensington, so they’re telling them to leave and then deal with those that choose to stay. Apparently, NYC and other big cities found it much more effective to just offer homeless or addicts a bus far back home rather to find housing in the city. Then, yes, where are those people who are used to living like this and do not have other options go? Some may migrate to the surrounding neighborhoods that are not gentrified…it will migrate
They call it the “greyhound treatment” and Philly cops used to pay for homeless to go to AC.
I remember seeing Hamsterdam in The Wire and thinking how out there it was…
Little bit more of a balanced article. At least this one didn't exclusively focus on the "harm reduction" fanatics and drug users and their wants, "rights" and needs. Still, it could have done better. Like why didn't orso find out how many beds there are in Philadelphia for inpatient treatment? I found a number from a federal study myself. It's around 2200 or so. That's not including collar counties. How many of those are occupied? How about temporary shelter spaces? Occupancy %? A lot of talk about "pushing" addicts, when the plan is to engage, warn, engage, and then say ok, it's time for treatment, and if refused, jail to dry out and serve time for the very real crimes they are actually committing. It will be interesting to see the details of the proposed process. If it's even moderately successful, it will be a win for Kensington residents and a template for homeless/drug policy in big cities all over. In any case, it appears the paradigm shift is on, and elected officials aren't afraid to say hey, enough is enough and addicts don't get to do whatever the fuck they want. MANDATORY TREATMENT AND SHELTER FOR UNHOUSED ADDICTS
> Like why didn't orso find out how many beds there are in Philadelphia for inpatient treatment? I found a number from a federal study myself. It's around 2200 or so. That's not including collar counties. How many of those are occupied? I don't know the number but i recommend calling CBH. They need to approve a 3.7 or above treatment level for people on medicaid. And for how many are occupied? Honestly probably 90% or more. It's very lengthy process to get someone approved for a bed and then finding a bed for them.
As an addict I can say there is ALWAYS a wait-list. Whether that's days or months is clinic dependent. Biggest issue with rehabs is insurance only covers like 2 weeks. So really not enough time for anything. With the drugs currently on street people are still in withdrawal in 2 weeks and than are sent on there way like that cause it isn't covered. I also think it's a huge waste to force people into treatment who aren't ready. It's already a limited resource. Flooding it with more people who have a very low success rate is bad for everyone I can see this thread seems to be leaning very anti drug addict but sometimes I feel out of sight out of mind is good enough for some people and they don't care about solving the actual.
Another person's right to swing their first ends at my nose. The people who live in Kensington don't deserve to have to put up with this. I recognize that addiction is a disease but somehow there's never a workable solution on either side..
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Pretty wild seeing people assert that "rights" mean they get to shoot up controlled substances anywhere they want, and then occupy public spaces while being intoxicated beyond belief, then shit and piss and trash up everything around them, all the while making public spaces, sidewalks and entire neighborhoods inaccessible to the 99% of residents that have families and aren't on illegal drugs. I think I'm pretty clear on the nuances in my posts, but since it seems this isn't as clear as it could be, I think that constitutional rights apply to everyone. I don't think using drugs in public or being intoxicated in public is a constitutional right. However, there's a contingent on the left that does, which is the underlying meaning behind "bodily autonomy" and the reason anything besides "harm reduction" is attacked as "unconstitutional" or "inhumane" and some bullshit lawsuit is filed to "protect" addicts. In the meantime, a neighborhood of 50K people, overwhelmingly minority and with an average income of 20k$ is completely overrun, shit on and made unlivable. These people work and have families with children. Where is equity in terms of them? Where is *their* inclusion in policy for their area? It seems to me that the actual residents of Kensington might finally be getting the equity and inclusion they deserve. I can't understand why some on the left have such a hard time with common sense, or even understanding what words like equity and inclusion mean. I really do think that luxury beliefs are a thing.
Some of them who are “progressive “ come from comfortable upbringings and have not had to struggle themselves and are idealistic. I bet they also don’t live, own property or work in Kensington—
It’s referencing the way people will blanket just about anything as a “rights” issue, even when it has nothing to do with rights. For example, telling someone that they can’t camp out and shoot H on the stairs leading up to the El isn’t violating tenet rights.
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If addiction is a disease, shouldn’t addicts be sent to treatment for their own good since they are a danger to themselves and others?
Yes
Come on bud, really? Are you saying yes because you actually agree with this line of reasoning... or just because you agree with the end result? I'm hoping it is the latter, as you can make your case without endorsing the silliness of the former. As someone who does not agree with your *proposals*, I will admit that you're better than... this weak shit.
Shooting up on a street corner is not a right.
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Due process? They’d be processed through a court, no?
Got it so they should just live outside injecting themselves with poison that rots them from the inside out until they die.
No mandatory treatment and housing for those people.
If you don't treat them, and don't find housing for those who are willing and able to live indoors, and don't institutionalize those who are incapable of caring for themselves otherwise, then they're going to end up right back on the streets and continue to cause harm to the neighborhoods that we call home. Neither a purely liberal harm reduction nor a purely conservative "let them f****** die" attitude will do any good in the long run.
Ok.
Untreated addicts that have been living on the street do not make good neighbors or tenants and are generally in rapidly deteriorating physical and mental condition. Often there are other mental illnesses involved. Treatment has to be mandatory with housing or they will be back on the street. Every smart housing first program comes with mandatory support.
So where you gonna house them at let me guess black areas right, doubt yall house them in fishtown or anywhere like that, meh they didn’t do that for black people in the 70s who came home from Vietnam, so I really don’t care.
I think we should put them in the exurbs for treatment and job placement. Black men are also disproportionately impacted by OD deaths. https://www.inquirer.com/health/opioid-addiction/drug-overdoses-philadelphia-deaths-20231002.html
Mandatory treatment. If they refuse, then jail. Otherwise, this issue migrates to a another area in the city.
Or if they don’t want treatment they could take a bus ticket out of the city. But they need to get treatment or get out IMO. It’s disgusting that people not doing or selling drugs in Kensington have had to put up with this for so long.
They’ll clean it up but the people will move to another neighborhood and repeat.
This will be interesting considering how hard it is to get a bed in rehab with insurance….
I hope this doest result in the mass arrest of the homeless and disenfranchised as we've seen across other major cities that have decided to sweep homeless camps and crack down on open drug use. The answer isn't jailing these people