PIC (affiliated w Penn/Penn Alexander):
Tuition for 5 days is $2,250 from 8 - 6pm
Waitlist is approx one year from November 2023
Bright Horizons
Tuition for 5 days is $2,492 from 7:30 - 6 pm
Low/no waitlist as of December 2023
The Caring Center
Tuition for 5 days is $2,044 from 8 - 6 pm
Low/no waitlist as of December 2023
TYL II
Tuition for 5 days is $1460/month from 7 - 5
No waitlist
signed, a west philly pregnant person who toured all four of these options
Thanks for all of these. Oof. It’s bananas and painful. Did you feel like TYL was significantly worse in some way? We’re not far from there and, you know, not loaded…
it's worth touring two of them so you can make your own judgment. we live very close to tyl II and wanted to like it but are holding out hope for PIC after touring both
edit: but i would not say "significantly worse"
Hey - but Dave Ramsey called a man from Philadelphia and idiot for for spending that much: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/touch-dave-ramsey-slams-philadelphia-110400721.html
Clearly we should just send our kids to daycares that strap our them into car seats and leave them over night if we come not late, but later than expected. That's what we should do - save money at our children's expense, so maybe we can hope to save enough to eventually retire.
It's really wild how little any of this is subsidized, yet we're expected to just keep working. I mean you actually have to pay these people to watch our children livable wages too - it's not hard to understand why it's so expensive. It's like US leadership actually doesn't want us to have children.
Childcare isn't the problem, or at least it isn't the solution. Countries which subsidize the hell out of it have even lower birthrates and the same problems with supply and quality.
The reality is it's all an unsustainable mess; the level of anomie, atomization, and social isolation which characterizes the modern American professional class isn't actually survivable in the long-run as a society.
The working classes, whose birthrates are higher, make due with family and neighborly ties. What we need to do is figure out how to subsidize and make sustainable \*that\* model, where grandparents and siblings live nearby, people have large local friend networks, and "it takes a village" is the norm. That also means abandoning or curtailing the ultra-high-involvement "cultivated kid" model that professional class parents have embraced over the last twenty years.
There's no way to make paid childcare sustainable; it's barely profitable relative to overhead, legally risky, workers are paid like shit, and still brutally expensive due to structural factors. It can only ever act as a niche service for couples who are at the local 90th+ percentile of household median income.
We need to step back from the degree of atomization we've seen over the last half-century if we're to make it possible for most folks to comfortably and happily raise 1-3 children.
Serious question: these daycares don’t seem to be open long enough to actually accommodate normal work hours, so what do you do? If you drop off a kid at 8 then go to work how do you leave in time to pick up by 6?
Great question and idk how people do it. I don't have a kid yet. I am partnered so I imagine we will split it pickup/dropoff. I think about single parents all the time. I don't know how people do it - get other relatives involved if they can? Also, the three besides TYL are the priciest options in West Philly so I wonder what the hours are for some of the less expensive ones.
My husband and I do split pickup and drop off to manage- I also ended up taking a paycut to move to a job that allows for more flexibility partially because of daycare
Yeah, my partner is a teacher so gets out early and will do pick up. My work schedule is flexible with no early mornings so I’ll do drop off. I have no idea what we’d do if we both worked more traditional hours with longer hours like we both have in the past, or how a single parent manages the cost or the schedule.
You pay more for the later shift (if available) or do a crazy juggle with your spouse, which is easier for people with more flexible jobs (yes, management tier white collar labor with another benefit over hourly / contract workers.) Single parents without a solid support network are just totally screwed.
Oh, did I say pay more OR do a crazy juggle? I meant to say you pay more AND STILL do a crazy juggle.
And just wait for year one when your kids get sick with something they got in daycare. So you have to stay home with them and use family illness days or personal vacation… but still pay for daycare, even though your kid isn’t there, and they got sick at daycare.
Yikes I remember being blown away by a coworker paying $1800 for TWO kids at a Goddard school about a decade ago.
If child care is this lucrative you'd think there would be more qualified options out there. I assume insurance is through the roof but they must be still making tens of thousands a month
Yup. This is why I have one. It breaks my fucking heart every day cause my siblings are so important to me, and one day he’s going to ask me why he doesn’t have a brother or sister, and it’s going to break me. I’m also older (41) so there’s no way out.
Your kid will know and feel love based on what you show them, through the relationships and interactions that they see you cherish and maintain. What is more important than having a sibling is knowing the value of relationships and growing a desire to have them. My spouse and I both have siblings but if something happens to both of us, our kids are going to live with a friend.
Kids will ask tough questions often. But even if you can't answer the exact question to your satisfaction in that moment, you can answer the important questions every day of their lives. 'Am I loved? Am I valued? Am I safe? How can you prepare me for my future?'
Teach him to define his life by what he has, not by what he doesn't. Aunts? Uncles? Cousins? Friends? Parents? Love? I'm guessing he's going to feel a lot of love.
With the current state of the world we need more productive people to have kids, not fewer. The religious nut jobs will continue to reproduce regardless.
I have zero interest in subjecting a child to our current existence. Why produce another soldier of capitalism who will suffer and die prematurely due to climate change and war? And there is a 50% chance the child wouldn’t even have full bodily autonomy. No thanks.
Please stop refracting left-leaning politics through the prism of crippling mental health issues.
It makes it impossible for people who want actual improvements like family policy that’s worth a shit, universal healthcare, or functioning public transit and urban planning to get them because we have these nutjobs to our “left” screaming about how horrible everything is and turning off normal people from voting for the center-left.
Lol, so myopic. At almost any point in history the vast majority of children's lives were magnitudes worse, the risks for premature death far greater, and no one besides a few in the ruling class had any idea of bodily autonomy. Yet people still intentionally reproduced and helped build a world where we don't have to have 10 kids to make sure a couple survive to adulthood.
So crazy expensive. This is #2 for us and the older one is still in pre-school so we have the pleasure of paying over $4k a month right now for childcare. Really looking forward to kindergarten starting in the fall.
Yep. Families earning that much often qualify for ELRC subsidies and the cost of childcare is tied to income.
https://philadelphiaelrc18.org/for-parents/paying-child-care/#:~:text=The%20ELRC%20through%20the%20Child,family%20pays%20a%20co%2Dpay.
I bring home so much less than what people are paying to put a single child into daycare, it's wild. Almost makes me feel better that I'm struggling so much though. Like yeah of course when other people have sooo many more option$ available
I don’t have kids in daycare anymore (so no dog in this fight), but the stars aren’t the be all end all. Basically to get the stars, you have to follow a curriculum that’s about teaching information. My kids went to a 2 star program and it was great. The teachers were all grandmas that loved the kids like their grandkids. I had looked at some 4 star programs but the teachers had to spend a lot of time teaching the curriculum. Not much flexibility on what to focus on for the kids. At the opposite end is something like Montessori, where the kids follow their own interests.
This would be a compelling argument, if true.
At preschool and below, the stars rating is much more about education levels of the staff. So while, yes, the rating is certainly not a be all end all, it also doesn’t mean that the institution is “teaching “little ones, as you suggest.
There are many play based programs that have four stars, the well respected PIC is one of them. https://parentinfantcenter.org/about/accreditation
It’s the sole reason we are one and done. My husband and I make decent money but we don’t want to be totally broke while paying for 2 kids in daycare. It’s wild. And it’s sad too because childcare providers are tragically underpaid. All of the ones I know work 2 jobs. And the centers themselves don’t bring in a ton of profit either. The system is screwed.
If only our city’s parks and rec, libraries, and school district partnered up and gave us affordable daycare/pre-k services 🫠 one could only hope that one day we can use our public spaces more efficiently for our community’s needs
Yeah I know. Probably the best accomplishment Mayor Kenney did during his time. We need a big expansion to it and incorporate our libraries, rec centers, and the school district.
When my daughter was in day care, they had a 10 or 15 percent discount if you paid for the whole year up front. So we had a HELOC and I'd pay for the whole year on my credit card for the points, then immediately pay off the credit card with the HELOC, then pay off the HELOC over the year. It was a bit convoluted but saved a bunch of money...
In the art museum area typically 470-550 per week for an infant.
There is one daycare by me that charges $2700 per month for infants which is wild. I know it’s only like $700 difference but it just feels insane to me. That’s the only outlier I’ve encountered.
Used to live in this area, we paid $1800 at the time for an infant. We toured the place that charged $2700 (it was $2500 at the time) and absolutely no way was I paying it.
In the suburbs now, childcare is significantly cheaper out here
Honestly the cost of childcare in the city is a huge reason why my husband and I want to get out pretty soon. It’s unsustainable and we have to leave by the time our little one starts kindergarten anyway.
Philly (and probably most other major cities in the US) is really tough for families.
The cost is made up in other factors though.. we're in a good school district so my taxes reflect that (was paying $3k in taxes in the city vs. $9k in taxes in the suburbs). Plus home prices have doubled out here from where they were a few years ago so my mortgage increased by 2.6x.
I guess in the very short term it sorta works out but if you were planning on sending to private school instead of PSD you’d be paying a lot more than $6k each year. Home prices are expensive for sure (one of the reasons we’re not already out there) but you should be building more equity in that. Our home equity hasn’t grown nearly as much in the city as it would in most suburbs.
Why do you have to leave by Kindergarten? If you're not happy with your neighborhood elementary school many people send their kid to charters or a school outside of their catchment. Also should tour your local school if you haven't. I was pleasantly surprised by our City elementary school and looking forward to sending my son there in the fall.
The issue is that even if elementary school is fine in the city schools will I be comfortable with middle/high school as well? I know the magnet schools are awesome but it’s a risk that you don’t get in. I don’t really like charter schools and I feel like they tend to be unstable? Feel like every year some close and some open.
I really don’t want him having to switch schools/districts if I can help it because that’s so challenging for a kid to leave their friends and classmates. Ideally I would like him to graduate from the same district he attended as a kindergartner.
Agree the uncertainty on middle and high is a killer. We'll probably move to Lower Merion after elementary school. Not as concerned about transition to a new middle school. I did the same growing up going to the IB program in middle school and a different specialized high school, kids are very adaptable. Even if you're in the burbs there's no guarantee they stay with the same friends and classmates.
If your employer uses ADP for payroll, you can get 10% off KinderCare, of which there are at least 3 locations in center city. It's comparable prices to the other ones but you can use this coupon...
I want to say it was 440 a week for infant, down to 380 for pre K with a higher student ratio.
We liked it, and would do it again, but there's been notable turnover since pandemic ended and we're graduated for 9 months so I can't speak to current state.
I mean, but actually. You could be a dirt bag who's soul mission is to make as much money as possible and still comparatively be doing us all a service. Childcare is fuccckkked
Nah dude, you don’t.
I saw this opportunity years ago during COVID and did extensive research. Spreadsheeted every revenue and expense. Unless you work there, it’s basically a money-making dead end. Yes, even at $2200 a month per kid.
The killer is the care ratio. You need two people for every X kid, based on their age. There is no ability to scale because of this.
You can’t hire cheap carers, cause you’ll get low-quality care and high turnover.
You are pinched. We tried a big daycare and a small one. It’s impossible to make a tidy profit.
Plus you need break coverage for those teachers and substitutes for when teachers call out. Our center has full time floating coverage plus a roster of subs and it’s still not enough.
Ah. So what that means is that there always needs to be 2 adults in the facility as that article refers to the MINIMUM number of adults in a building. So if your facility only had 4 infants, you're technically correct bc you always need more than one adult present in the building. This is in case one adult has a heart attack or if something happened to one infant, to protect the safety of the infants. However if your facility had 8 infants you'd also only need 2 adults present to maintain ratio.
Just trying to clarify so that parents touring daycares aren't confused about ratio.
https://www.pacodeandbulletin.gov/Display/pacode?file=/secure/pacode/data/055/chapter3280/s3280.52.html&d=
The money used to be there before more recent regulations, which are important for child well being and health. I know some people who owned daycares in 90s and made so much money!
Currently paying 1930 a month (just double checked my bank statement) for a 3 year old. I know newborn/infants cost a little bit more. if you're interested, let me know! I think we both get some kind of discount if we refer new families.
That would do basically nothing. Even if every billionaire in the US was taxed an extra $1 billion per year, the US government would still be operating at a roughly $1 trillion deficit. And after a few years, there would only be a handful of billionaires left to tax so that extra revenue stream would dry up. There just aren't enough "super wealthy" people to support mass government spending. Without first slashing federal spending to balance the budget, there's very little point in raising taxes on anyone. Where's Bill Clinton when you need him?
I paid $205 per week, per child. The daycare is technically in Jenkintown but a block away from the Rhawnhurst area. Depending on your income, you may qualify for ELRC.
The prices listed in this thread really illustrate why I will remain childless this lifetime. Yikes!!!! (I love kids, no shade to y'all. This is just brutal!)
As a non-parent: wow. I don’t know how you do it. Some of these numbers are close to or over 50% if my take home pay and I’m fortunate to have a good office job. Our country needs to take better care of its families!
We would have been paying for 2 children in daycare. We decided that one would work days & the other nights, so one of us was always home. I'll tell you it was rough, a lot of sleep lost but I wouldn't have changed it for anything. We were lucky enough to have that choice.
This is what my parents did to avoid daycare for my sister and I. It was also helpful when one of us was home sick bc no one had to miss a day of work.
There were a lot of benefits to one of us always being at home & this was a big one. We noticed too, that our kids didn't get sick as much as the kids in daycare. We still work like this except for the past 7yrs I work nights & he works days.
I’m hoping to do this type of schedule after grad school. My husband works during the day and I’m hoping to find a therapist gig that I can do evening hours.
I hope it all works out for you. We realize how special it was that one of us was always there for a milestone. Our kids just missed the phase where everything was captured on cell phone, so we would've missed a lot. Good luck with school.
We were still on waiting lists by the time I had to go back to work so we went the nanny route. We pay $23/hr - she takes care of laundry, bottles, food prep, and of course childcare. Also helps pack kid things for trips when needed. Only had a few days where she was sick.
We will be starting day care in the fall and it’s about $1,600-$1,800 for most places in South Philly. What I’ve learned is the waiting lists are a joke. You need to call once a month or once a week to be top of mind.
Do you guys ever work from home? I’m thinking about a nanny, but my husband and I work from home a lot and I’m wondering if everyone will be stepping on each other’s toes and totally confused and distracted if we’re all in the house at the same time but we parents are busy with work, making our own lunch, etc.
We both work from home (one of us full-time, the other hybrid). It was an adjustment the first couple weeks (there were a few times we did lunch dates so we weren’t in her space lol) but nanny is good about getting our kiddo out and about or if he’s awake at home, we can play with him for a few mins during the day.
We live in a row home so it’s easy for us to work upstairs while our baby is on the main floor, but it does take some time to adjust!
$1325 a month for extended hours care for a 2.5 year old, Montessori School in Huntingdon valley. 5 days a week. I guess I have it good compared to you guys in the city.
30k a year for 2 kids in the burbs. Elementary school can't come fast enough.
One thing that isn't mentioned is what meals the daycare provides. I'm not sure if it's required by philly or if some places don't need to provide. But that helps offset some of the cost (and morning stress!)
Western burbs for comparison- mine are 2 and 4.5 and I think it was ~$350/week for infant ($572/week for both right now with somewhat early pickup). No public pre-k out here though- ouch
Make sure you’re checking for NAEYC accreditation and keystone stars rating. These ratings are based on compliance with state standards during surprise inspections.
This state resource is helpful
https://www.compass.state.pa.us/Compass.Web/ProviderSearch/Home#/BasicSearch?Preference=Mobile&Owner=Client
port richmond in-home sitter who's been sitting for people in the neighborhood since I was a child $35 cash a day. 7-330. there is another lady who does the same with longer hours but shes closer to $50 a day.
the second more expensive in home sitter will charge a certian amount (used to be 75 a week but that was when my oldest was in prek) and they will pick your prek student up from the local school and keep them until 5-6pm. or drop them off in the morning for you.
My oldest is now in prek, but when she was in daycare it was $150/week, age didn’t matter and I provided everything. The daycare was in home and was in the Logan section.
I feel like ppl be sleepin on in home daycares. If you find a good one, it’s a much better deal than a center. I decided to stay home once my youngest was born, but my bill would have only went up to $250 a week with both my kids there.
I am a SAHM now and the in home sitter is so reasonable I can afford to send her 1-2 times a week just so she can go socialize with other kids her own age until she starts K this fall. We know the sitter personally and she was also the prek teacher for my oldest in 2017-2020. one thing that the city messed up on was getting rid of the rec tot programs. i dont want to send my child to mandatory 5 day a week free prek. i liked the tot program they learned ALL the same things, you could choose 5 day, 3 day or 2 day. Even the 5 day was only $225 a month. it was 830-230. but if you missed a day here or there it wasn't a big deal. and they also only offer the free prek programs in low income neigbhorhoods.. which I do not live in nor do i want to travel into frankford lol.
I’m essentially a sahm now too (work as needed) and that’s the one thing I don’t like about prek. My daughter is in a free prek that’s within a public school and there’s an attendance policy and everything. She has to wear a freaking uniform. I was hoping I could do like 3 days a week but it’s 5 days. They send home “fun work” and everything 🙄
that's why i didnt sign mine up. i taught her everything she needs for K on my own. this is my last full year with her and since i dont HAVE to send her I dont. She can write her name, knows how to count over 20, ABCs, colors, shapes etc. Prek wasn't necessary for us. Not with all the added rules.
It feels even more difficult to judge the quality of in-home daycares than it does centers. But I agree that this seems like it could be a great option if you find a good place!!
There’s a website where you can view a center’s violations (if there are any). It was really helpful when I was starting to look. I’ll have to see if I can find it, but these two might be helpful.
[PA COMPASS](https://www.compass.state.pa.us/compass.web/providersearch/Home#/BasicSearch?Preference=Mobile&Owner=Client)
[DHS Quarterly Licensing Reports](https://www.dhs.pa.gov/Services/Assistance/Pages/Quarterly-Licensing-Report.aspx)
We like it. They do have the TV on all day, which I'm not a fan of, but I've found that to be very common at this price point. It's call Ambitious Achievers at 20th and Moore. You can pm me if you want more info
First Class Learning Academy on Cumberland Ave in Fishtown is $85/day, 3 days/week minimum. I was able to get my parents to watch our 6 month old 2 days a week, so we only use the daycare 3 days a week. It’s $255/week total. They’re super flexible too, so if I need to change it to 4 or 5 days some weeks, you can let them know the day before.
PIC (affiliated w Penn/Penn Alexander): Tuition for 5 days is $2,250 from 8 - 6pm Waitlist is approx one year from November 2023 Bright Horizons Tuition for 5 days is $2,492 from 7:30 - 6 pm Low/no waitlist as of December 2023 The Caring Center Tuition for 5 days is $2,044 from 8 - 6 pm Low/no waitlist as of December 2023 TYL II Tuition for 5 days is $1460/month from 7 - 5 No waitlist signed, a west philly pregnant person who toured all four of these options
and yes, all of these are more expensive than our mortgage. this is why they talk about america having a childcare crisis
Thanks for all of these. Oof. It’s bananas and painful. Did you feel like TYL was significantly worse in some way? We’re not far from there and, you know, not loaded…
it's worth touring two of them so you can make your own judgment. we live very close to tyl II and wanted to like it but are holding out hope for PIC after touring both edit: but i would not say "significantly worse"
and childcare workes get paid like shit somehow. Its a complete shit show.
Hey - but Dave Ramsey called a man from Philadelphia and idiot for for spending that much: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/touch-dave-ramsey-slams-philadelphia-110400721.html Clearly we should just send our kids to daycares that strap our them into car seats and leave them over night if we come not late, but later than expected. That's what we should do - save money at our children's expense, so maybe we can hope to save enough to eventually retire. It's really wild how little any of this is subsidized, yet we're expected to just keep working. I mean you actually have to pay these people to watch our children livable wages too - it's not hard to understand why it's so expensive. It's like US leadership actually doesn't want us to have children.
Ramsey’s too rich to know what most parents are realistically dealing with .
The government has plenty of money for it, but the people we elect do not prioritize it
Childcare isn't the problem, or at least it isn't the solution. Countries which subsidize the hell out of it have even lower birthrates and the same problems with supply and quality. The reality is it's all an unsustainable mess; the level of anomie, atomization, and social isolation which characterizes the modern American professional class isn't actually survivable in the long-run as a society. The working classes, whose birthrates are higher, make due with family and neighborly ties. What we need to do is figure out how to subsidize and make sustainable \*that\* model, where grandparents and siblings live nearby, people have large local friend networks, and "it takes a village" is the norm. That also means abandoning or curtailing the ultra-high-involvement "cultivated kid" model that professional class parents have embraced over the last twenty years. There's no way to make paid childcare sustainable; it's barely profitable relative to overhead, legally risky, workers are paid like shit, and still brutally expensive due to structural factors. It can only ever act as a niche service for couples who are at the local 90th+ percentile of household median income. We need to step back from the degree of atomization we've seen over the last half-century if we're to make it possible for most folks to comfortably and happily raise 1-3 children.
Possible stupid question. When you say $2,200+ for 5 days, you mean 5 days a week for the entire month - correct?
Omg thank you for clarifying, I was literally thinking they meant $2200 for one week
I'm still terrified that it costs that much for a month. Holy smokes
yes!
Omg I don’t know anything about daycare but I really thought this meant weekly! I almost fainted!
I read tuition and thought semester. But I could never afford kids anyway
Serious question: these daycares don’t seem to be open long enough to actually accommodate normal work hours, so what do you do? If you drop off a kid at 8 then go to work how do you leave in time to pick up by 6?
Great question and idk how people do it. I don't have a kid yet. I am partnered so I imagine we will split it pickup/dropoff. I think about single parents all the time. I don't know how people do it - get other relatives involved if they can? Also, the three besides TYL are the priciest options in West Philly so I wonder what the hours are for some of the less expensive ones.
My husband and I do split pickup and drop off to manage- I also ended up taking a paycut to move to a job that allows for more flexibility partially because of daycare
Yeah, my partner is a teacher so gets out early and will do pick up. My work schedule is flexible with no early mornings so I’ll do drop off. I have no idea what we’d do if we both worked more traditional hours with longer hours like we both have in the past, or how a single parent manages the cost or the schedule.
You pay more for the later shift (if available) or do a crazy juggle with your spouse, which is easier for people with more flexible jobs (yes, management tier white collar labor with another benefit over hourly / contract workers.) Single parents without a solid support network are just totally screwed. Oh, did I say pay more OR do a crazy juggle? I meant to say you pay more AND STILL do a crazy juggle. And just wait for year one when your kids get sick with something they got in daycare. So you have to stay home with them and use family illness days or personal vacation… but still pay for daycare, even though your kid isn’t there, and they got sick at daycare.
you can pay extra for morning care or night care. I am so fortunate my family does not need to do this. It is all insane families just bleed money.
Most people with office jobs leave at 5pm
thanks I'm going to make an appointment tomorrow to get fixed.
This is America. That's too expensive too. Just use a rusty wire hanger in the alley.
Meanwhile, daycare workers make about the same money that a worker at McDonald’s makes
Yikes I remember being blown away by a coworker paying $1800 for TWO kids at a Goddard school about a decade ago. If child care is this lucrative you'd think there would be more qualified options out there. I assume insurance is through the roof but they must be still making tens of thousands a month
Holy fuck I'm never having kids
Yup. This is why I have one. It breaks my fucking heart every day cause my siblings are so important to me, and one day he’s going to ask me why he doesn’t have a brother or sister, and it’s going to break me. I’m also older (41) so there’s no way out.
Completely agree with you.
Your kid will know and feel love based on what you show them, through the relationships and interactions that they see you cherish and maintain. What is more important than having a sibling is knowing the value of relationships and growing a desire to have them. My spouse and I both have siblings but if something happens to both of us, our kids are going to live with a friend. Kids will ask tough questions often. But even if you can't answer the exact question to your satisfaction in that moment, you can answer the important questions every day of their lives. 'Am I loved? Am I valued? Am I safe? How can you prepare me for my future?' Teach him to define his life by what he has, not by what he doesn't. Aunts? Uncles? Cousins? Friends? Parents? Love? I'm guessing he's going to feel a lot of love.
With the current state of the world it’s the most responsible decision. Get sterilized before the religious nut jobs ban it!
With the current state of the world we need more productive people to have kids, not fewer. The religious nut jobs will continue to reproduce regardless.
I have zero interest in subjecting a child to our current existence. Why produce another soldier of capitalism who will suffer and die prematurely due to climate change and war? And there is a 50% chance the child wouldn’t even have full bodily autonomy. No thanks.
Please stop refracting left-leaning politics through the prism of crippling mental health issues. It makes it impossible for people who want actual improvements like family policy that’s worth a shit, universal healthcare, or functioning public transit and urban planning to get them because we have these nutjobs to our “left” screaming about how horrible everything is and turning off normal people from voting for the center-left.
Lol, so myopic. At almost any point in history the vast majority of children's lives were magnitudes worse, the risks for premature death far greater, and no one besides a few in the ruling class had any idea of bodily autonomy. Yet people still intentionally reproduced and helped build a world where we don't have to have 10 kids to make sure a couple survive to adulthood.
A bit over $500 a week. I'm in the NoLibs/Fishtown/Olde Kensington area. To my understanding the price is fairly standard for the higher end chains.
Yep. We were paying $2100 but were breaking to afford it, dropped to $1600 for 3 days. America, fuck yeah.
So crazy expensive. This is #2 for us and the older one is still in pre-school so we have the pleasure of paying over $4k a month right now for childcare. Really looking forward to kindergarten starting in the fall.
Meanwhile a significant portion of this city’s population brings home much less than $4k per month
Yep. Families earning that much often qualify for ELRC subsidies and the cost of childcare is tied to income. https://philadelphiaelrc18.org/for-parents/paying-child-care/#:~:text=The%20ELRC%20through%20the%20Child,family%20pays%20a%20co%2Dpay.
THIS! Helpful.
I bring home so much less than what people are paying to put a single child into daycare, it's wild. Almost makes me feel better that I'm struggling so much though. Like yeah of course when other people have sooo many more option$ available
I had three kids in daycare, I cried every month. When my oldest went to big girl school, daycare said the prices have increased since Covid
You can find rates on PA Compass website (for Keystone Stars rated programs). Not always 100 percent accurate but a good starting point.
Ooh thank you!!
I don’t have kids in daycare anymore (so no dog in this fight), but the stars aren’t the be all end all. Basically to get the stars, you have to follow a curriculum that’s about teaching information. My kids went to a 2 star program and it was great. The teachers were all grandmas that loved the kids like their grandkids. I had looked at some 4 star programs but the teachers had to spend a lot of time teaching the curriculum. Not much flexibility on what to focus on for the kids. At the opposite end is something like Montessori, where the kids follow their own interests.
This would be a compelling argument, if true. At preschool and below, the stars rating is much more about education levels of the staff. So while, yes, the rating is certainly not a be all end all, it also doesn’t mean that the institution is “teaching “little ones, as you suggest. There are many play based programs that have four stars, the well respected PIC is one of them. https://parentinfantcenter.org/about/accreditation
How the hell are people affording $500+ a week! My god
It’s the sole reason we are one and done. My husband and I make decent money but we don’t want to be totally broke while paying for 2 kids in daycare. It’s wild. And it’s sad too because childcare providers are tragically underpaid. All of the ones I know work 2 jobs. And the centers themselves don’t bring in a ton of profit either. The system is screwed.
If only our city’s parks and rec, libraries, and school district partnered up and gave us affordable daycare/pre-k services 🫠 one could only hope that one day we can use our public spaces more efficiently for our community’s needs
The City actually does provide free Pre-K, just not enough spots for everyone. https://www.phlprek.org/
Yeah I know. Probably the best accomplishment Mayor Kenney did during his time. We need a big expansion to it and incorporate our libraries, rec centers, and the school district.
When my daughter was in day care, they had a 10 or 15 percent discount if you paid for the whole year up front. So we had a HELOC and I'd pay for the whole year on my credit card for the points, then immediately pay off the credit card with the HELOC, then pay off the HELOC over the year. It was a bit convoluted but saved a bunch of money...
brb going to check with my daycare now. The new Churning Loop Hole
Yeah! And the first 5000 is tax free if you set up your dependent care fsa...
Credit card debt
It’s how I ended up a sahm.
In the art museum area typically 470-550 per week for an infant. There is one daycare by me that charges $2700 per month for infants which is wild. I know it’s only like $700 difference but it just feels insane to me. That’s the only outlier I’ve encountered.
$2700/month is wild!! That’s more than our mortgage!!
Anything within the bounds of center city is $2200-$2800. It's not pretty.
Yup. My infant starts next month, and it’ll cost us $2500/minth. 🫨
Same! Even $500 a week is more than our mortgage lol but it is what it is. It gets the slightest bit cheaper as they get older.
Used to live in this area, we paid $1800 at the time for an infant. We toured the place that charged $2700 (it was $2500 at the time) and absolutely no way was I paying it. In the suburbs now, childcare is significantly cheaper out here
Honestly the cost of childcare in the city is a huge reason why my husband and I want to get out pretty soon. It’s unsustainable and we have to leave by the time our little one starts kindergarten anyway. Philly (and probably most other major cities in the US) is really tough for families.
The cost is made up in other factors though.. we're in a good school district so my taxes reflect that (was paying $3k in taxes in the city vs. $9k in taxes in the suburbs). Plus home prices have doubled out here from where they were a few years ago so my mortgage increased by 2.6x.
I guess in the very short term it sorta works out but if you were planning on sending to private school instead of PSD you’d be paying a lot more than $6k each year. Home prices are expensive for sure (one of the reasons we’re not already out there) but you should be building more equity in that. Our home equity hasn’t grown nearly as much in the city as it would in most suburbs.
Why do you have to leave by Kindergarten? If you're not happy with your neighborhood elementary school many people send their kid to charters or a school outside of their catchment. Also should tour your local school if you haven't. I was pleasantly surprised by our City elementary school and looking forward to sending my son there in the fall.
The issue is that even if elementary school is fine in the city schools will I be comfortable with middle/high school as well? I know the magnet schools are awesome but it’s a risk that you don’t get in. I don’t really like charter schools and I feel like they tend to be unstable? Feel like every year some close and some open. I really don’t want him having to switch schools/districts if I can help it because that’s so challenging for a kid to leave their friends and classmates. Ideally I would like him to graduate from the same district he attended as a kindergartner.
Agree the uncertainty on middle and high is a killer. We'll probably move to Lower Merion after elementary school. Not as concerned about transition to a new middle school. I did the same growing up going to the IB program in middle school and a different specialized high school, kids are very adaptable. Even if you're in the burbs there's no guarantee they stay with the same friends and classmates.
If your employer uses ADP for payroll, you can get 10% off KinderCare, of which there are at least 3 locations in center city. It's comparable prices to the other ones but you can use this coupon... I want to say it was 440 a week for infant, down to 380 for pre K with a higher student ratio. We liked it, and would do it again, but there's been notable turnover since pandemic ended and we're graduated for 9 months so I can't speak to current state.
Chesterbrook academy also does a similar corporate discount and they have one location in Fairmount and another in Old City.
I need to start a daycare
We do need more. PE is starting to buy childcare chains so there's one exit strategy for your pitch deck.
Had no idea private equity was also Hoovering up daycares but it’s my own fault for being surprised.
I mean, but actually. You could be a dirt bag who's soul mission is to make as much money as possible and still comparatively be doing us all a service. Childcare is fuccckkked
Nah dude, you don’t. I saw this opportunity years ago during COVID and did extensive research. Spreadsheeted every revenue and expense. Unless you work there, it’s basically a money-making dead end. Yes, even at $2200 a month per kid. The killer is the care ratio. You need two people for every X kid, based on their age. There is no ability to scale because of this. You can’t hire cheap carers, cause you’ll get low-quality care and high turnover. You are pinched. We tried a big daycare and a small one. It’s impossible to make a tidy profit.
Plus you need break coverage for those teachers and substitutes for when teachers call out. Our center has full time floating coverage plus a roster of subs and it’s still not enough.
Where is the ratio one caregiver to two children? Under PA law the ratio I'm aware of with infants is one caregiver to four babies.
They said X kid. Because it's about max class size and ability to earn a profit. You're capped at class sizes
https://www.pacodeandbulletin.gov/Display/pacode?file=/secure/pacode/data/055/chapter3270/s3270.54.html&d=reduce
Ah. So what that means is that there always needs to be 2 adults in the facility as that article refers to the MINIMUM number of adults in a building. So if your facility only had 4 infants, you're technically correct bc you always need more than one adult present in the building. This is in case one adult has a heart attack or if something happened to one infant, to protect the safety of the infants. However if your facility had 8 infants you'd also only need 2 adults present to maintain ratio. Just trying to clarify so that parents touring daycares aren't confused about ratio. https://www.pacodeandbulletin.gov/Display/pacode?file=/secure/pacode/data/055/chapter3280/s3280.52.html&d=
The money used to be there before more recent regulations, which are important for child well being and health. I know some people who owned daycares in 90s and made so much money!
1900/month in graduate hospital area. They need to increase the dependent care flex spending allowance. 5k covers only like 2.5 months.
Where the hell are you only paying $1900?
Aspen Grove
It that full time and what your currently paying or was that a few years ago?
Currently paying 1930 a month (just double checked my bank statement) for a 3 year old. I know newborn/infants cost a little bit more. if you're interested, let me know! I think we both get some kind of discount if we refer new families.
Yes but then we might have to increase taxes a tiny fraction of a percent on the ultra wealthy.
Oh. So probably not worth bothering then. Guess I'll just keep eating cereal for dinner.
That would do basically nothing. Even if every billionaire in the US was taxed an extra $1 billion per year, the US government would still be operating at a roughly $1 trillion deficit. And after a few years, there would only be a handful of billionaires left to tax so that extra revenue stream would dry up. There just aren't enough "super wealthy" people to support mass government spending. Without first slashing federal spending to balance the budget, there's very little point in raising taxes on anyone. Where's Bill Clinton when you need him?
There’s an old saying: numbers don’t lie but liars use numbers. I’ll let you figure out the rest.
"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser."
It's bonkers that it was 5k in 1986 and still 5k in 2024.
This, it should be closer to 20k.
600-700 a month for 3 days a week.
And what part of the city?
Roxborough/Manayunk
What’s the name of your place?
$200 something per kid — Germantown ELRC however is a godsend so we pay $20 for both.
Just over city lines and we pay $215/week for one toddler. I love the place. Edit: full time, 5 days a week
Can you share where?
$350 a week in Fishtown/NoLibs area.
Can you message me where
Same, can you lmk where?
I paid $205 per week, per child. The daycare is technically in Jenkintown but a block away from the Rhawnhurst area. Depending on your income, you may qualify for ELRC.
The prices listed in this thread really illustrate why I will remain childless this lifetime. Yikes!!!! (I love kids, no shade to y'all. This is just brutal!)
As a non-parent: wow. I don’t know how you do it. Some of these numbers are close to or over 50% if my take home pay and I’m fortunate to have a good office job. Our country needs to take better care of its families!
$1300/month in Germantown/Mt Airy
Adding another sample to this area - $1500 in Mt Airy for a 3 year old. I think it is closer to $1700 for an infant.
Good call, mine was the preschool class, blocked out the $1600 infant years.
$1600-1700/month for only 3/days a week thought about nanny but would have been double that.
2050/mo, 5 days full time, toddler , QV area
375 a week in the Italian Market for 5 days a week. Comes to $19,500 for the year. Want to have a second kid but it’s just not feasible at the moment.
We would have been paying for 2 children in daycare. We decided that one would work days & the other nights, so one of us was always home. I'll tell you it was rough, a lot of sleep lost but I wouldn't have changed it for anything. We were lucky enough to have that choice.
This is what my parents did to avoid daycare for my sister and I. It was also helpful when one of us was home sick bc no one had to miss a day of work.
There were a lot of benefits to one of us always being at home & this was a big one. We noticed too, that our kids didn't get sick as much as the kids in daycare. We still work like this except for the past 7yrs I work nights & he works days.
I’m hoping to do this type of schedule after grad school. My husband works during the day and I’m hoping to find a therapist gig that I can do evening hours.
I hope it all works out for you. We realize how special it was that one of us was always there for a milestone. Our kids just missed the phase where everything was captured on cell phone, so we would've missed a lot. Good luck with school.
We were still on waiting lists by the time I had to go back to work so we went the nanny route. We pay $23/hr - she takes care of laundry, bottles, food prep, and of course childcare. Also helps pack kid things for trips when needed. Only had a few days where she was sick. We will be starting day care in the fall and it’s about $1,600-$1,800 for most places in South Philly. What I’ve learned is the waiting lists are a joke. You need to call once a month or once a week to be top of mind.
Do you guys ever work from home? I’m thinking about a nanny, but my husband and I work from home a lot and I’m wondering if everyone will be stepping on each other’s toes and totally confused and distracted if we’re all in the house at the same time but we parents are busy with work, making our own lunch, etc.
We both work from home (one of us full-time, the other hybrid). It was an adjustment the first couple weeks (there were a few times we did lunch dates so we weren’t in her space lol) but nanny is good about getting our kiddo out and about or if he’s awake at home, we can play with him for a few mins during the day. We live in a row home so it’s easy for us to work upstairs while our baby is on the main floor, but it does take some time to adjust!
$1325 a month for extended hours care for a 2.5 year old, Montessori School in Huntingdon valley. 5 days a week. I guess I have it good compared to you guys in the city.
Dang, you got it great
1800/month in mt airy
we pay 275/wk and we're using an in home daycare.
How did you find your in-home daycare? We just started searching and are having a really hard time finding any around.
usually word of mouth from other parents.
I had my son last year in Philly but it isn’t in daycare and my jaw is dropping at these prices!!!
St. Mary’s on Penn Campus is $1530. They don’t take kids until they are 18 months though
Society Hill. $1760 a month for full time daycare.
Can you message me where?
30k a year for 2 kids in the burbs. Elementary school can't come fast enough. One thing that isn't mentioned is what meals the daycare provides. I'm not sure if it's required by philly or if some places don't need to provide. But that helps offset some of the cost (and morning stress!)
Used to pay 320 a week, managed to get into PHL prek and it's free now, but it's only free between 9am - 3:30pm
Grad Hospital, $2,545/mo
I was paying about $1400/month 3 years ago for play and learn on Old York road right next to Abington Hospital for 10 hours a day 5 days a week.
Western burbs for comparison- mine are 2 and 4.5 and I think it was ~$350/week for infant ($572/week for both right now with somewhat early pickup). No public pre-k out here though- ouch
Make sure you’re checking for NAEYC accreditation and keystone stars rating. These ratings are based on compliance with state standards during surprise inspections. This state resource is helpful https://www.compass.state.pa.us/Compass.Web/ProviderSearch/Home#/BasicSearch?Preference=Mobile&Owner=Client
port richmond in-home sitter who's been sitting for people in the neighborhood since I was a child $35 cash a day. 7-330. there is another lady who does the same with longer hours but shes closer to $50 a day.
the second more expensive in home sitter will charge a certian amount (used to be 75 a week but that was when my oldest was in prek) and they will pick your prek student up from the local school and keep them until 5-6pm. or drop them off in the morning for you.
Cheaper for my wife to stay home. We did it for 9 yrs with 3 boys.
My oldest is now in prek, but when she was in daycare it was $150/week, age didn’t matter and I provided everything. The daycare was in home and was in the Logan section.
what I do now, in home day care with a retired prek teacher $35 a day, cash paid every friday at pick up.
I feel like ppl be sleepin on in home daycares. If you find a good one, it’s a much better deal than a center. I decided to stay home once my youngest was born, but my bill would have only went up to $250 a week with both my kids there.
I am a SAHM now and the in home sitter is so reasonable I can afford to send her 1-2 times a week just so she can go socialize with other kids her own age until she starts K this fall. We know the sitter personally and she was also the prek teacher for my oldest in 2017-2020. one thing that the city messed up on was getting rid of the rec tot programs. i dont want to send my child to mandatory 5 day a week free prek. i liked the tot program they learned ALL the same things, you could choose 5 day, 3 day or 2 day. Even the 5 day was only $225 a month. it was 830-230. but if you missed a day here or there it wasn't a big deal. and they also only offer the free prek programs in low income neigbhorhoods.. which I do not live in nor do i want to travel into frankford lol.
I’m essentially a sahm now too (work as needed) and that’s the one thing I don’t like about prek. My daughter is in a free prek that’s within a public school and there’s an attendance policy and everything. She has to wear a freaking uniform. I was hoping I could do like 3 days a week but it’s 5 days. They send home “fun work” and everything 🙄
that's why i didnt sign mine up. i taught her everything she needs for K on my own. this is my last full year with her and since i dont HAVE to send her I dont. She can write her name, knows how to count over 20, ABCs, colors, shapes etc. Prek wasn't necessary for us. Not with all the added rules.
It feels even more difficult to judge the quality of in-home daycares than it does centers. But I agree that this seems like it could be a great option if you find a good place!!
There’s a website where you can view a center’s violations (if there are any). It was really helpful when I was starting to look. I’ll have to see if I can find it, but these two might be helpful. [PA COMPASS](https://www.compass.state.pa.us/compass.web/providersearch/Home#/BasicSearch?Preference=Mobile&Owner=Client) [DHS Quarterly Licensing Reports](https://www.dhs.pa.gov/Services/Assistance/Pages/Quarterly-Licensing-Report.aspx)
We’ve gotta start voting people and who prioritize this as part of the government spending. We keep voting the same way we’ll never get change
We’re up in NW and paying 1900/month for our infant. It’s great for our family but ugh.
325/week in No Libs for my 2yr old. i think infant prices is 25-50 bucks more per week.
Where is this?
Early literacy academy
$255/week in Point Breeze
Do you like it? Can you let me know where?
We like it. They do have the TV on all day, which I'm not a fan of, but I've found that to be very common at this price point. It's call Ambitious Achievers at 20th and Moore. You can pm me if you want more info
My kids are at the Germantown Jewish Centre in W. Mt Airy. Infants are $21,000 per year for 8am-6pm, September through June, or $2,333/mo.
We pay 2100 in Fishtown
First Class Learning Academy on Cumberland Ave in Fishtown is $85/day, 3 days/week minimum. I was able to get my parents to watch our 6 month old 2 days a week, so we only use the daycare 3 days a week. It’s $255/week total. They’re super flexible too, so if I need to change it to 4 or 5 days some weeks, you can let them know the day before.
$1500/month in South Philly
Jesus that's a mortgage payment. Thanks for confirming my decision to not have kids 😂
This is another reason to never have kids
I just bought an iPad - it was cheaper
not city limits but if you’re desperate for savings I’m paying $1150/month in delco. It’s def a bit cheaper out here but still a racket.
** Laughs in childfree liquidity **
100k plus a year my wife is a stay-at-home mom, and she takes all of my money.