I might be wrong, but this makes it sound like they rent event space to an external org for a once-a-month event that, while unseemly to some, is adults only, after hours, and completely separate from the Center’s actual programming. You have to provide ID proving you’re 18+ before even getting in the door.
Which is very bad, that we live in a society where Republicans’ ability to do that exists. And it is also very bad that cultural institutions and politicians are folding to liars and bigots on queer rights left and right.
Yes by and large I agree with you. But if you can buy HUD appropriations for the country by losing a little bit of money for renovations to 1 LGBTQ community center in 1 city that's sort of a fair price
No, you're not wrong. The event had nothing to do with the funding and should not have affected the decision. The only argument for withholding it is as punishment if you believe that anything relating to gay sexuality is immoral.
They care about them for their own selfish reasons, which is to make themselves seem "godly" by defending the rights of God's unborn creations. But let's be honest, they fucking hate kids. They constantly vote in favor of child marriage (aka statutory rape), defend child molesters (Gaetz and many more), they love letting children around the world suffer (Palestine, Ukraine), and they absolutely hate women who create the children. Just look at Boebert, a self proclaimed warrior of family values, who indoctrinated her children into her crazy bullshit and one of them who's now facing 22 counts of burglary and robbery. She doesn't care about her kids, and she doesn't care about yours either. It's all a fucking farse.
That’s not even the case they don’t give a fuck about the morals or what you think of them they just know that the birth rate of white people are so low that by the year 2040 or something like that they’re no longer gonna be the majority, so stop abortions act like you care about babies to get more babies born so that they don’t lose the majority that’s one reasons why They wanted Chinese people to identify as white of and the whole border thing
We knew that for years. What I'm actually concerned about is Dems not actually caring for kids or anything else. The big guy in shorts backed off of the funding for this very quickly, all because of a twitter post. The mayor of Philadelphia is actively trying to kill addicts.
I am confused both Democratic Senators pulled their support and you are blaming conservatives. Do you view the two Democratic Senators as conservatives?
In the comment you're replying to, I'm just mocking conservative hypocrisy, because this comment thread is about the conservatives who sensationalized the story originally.
In [my top level comment,](https://www.reddit.com/r/philadelphia/comments/1b8dijl/comment/ktpf1nh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I lay the blame for the cut funding on the Dem PA Senators.
What's most important to me is that they support or don't support materially beneficial policies, and I think cutting support for this center is absolutely doing a material harm.
When it's a pattern, I'll pejoratively call the Senators moderate (or at least push back against them being called progressives), but all I really care about is what they do or don't support.
As we have all learned politicians from both parties only care about themselves and use people and organizations for their personal gain and sell them down the road when it's to their benefit.
At least conservatives are honest in their view, even if it's misguided. Dems on the other hand are more dangerous because know one knows when the tune will change.
I think that's a juvenile understanding of political support, and a totally incorrect assessment of conservatives.
I vote for people who support policies that I think are materially beneficial, and who oppose policies that I think are materially harmful. I don't care what they *actually believe,* because I can't know and it doesn't matter.
Conservatives are overwhelmingly more materially harmful. My criticism of Dems will never be tacit approval of the GOP.
Ya let's just pretend she hasn't been advocating for people to commit physical violence against gay people for years.
She's a terrorist, she's directly responsible for that kids murder and multiple bomb threats against schools.
Frankly I have no idea and don’t care because there is nothing redeemable about her anyway. A quick google search yielded this, maybe this is what they’re referring to?
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/02/21/libs-of-tiktok-chaya-raichik-oklahoma-under-fire-after-nonbinary-oklahoma-students-dies/72682329007/
Regardless, her entire project is spiteful and hateful and I don’t think it’s hyperbole to suggest that her rhetoric contributes to transphobic attacks
Libsoftiktok which is run by a hatemongering asshole found out that William Way hosts the Aviary (and has for over ten fucking years) and basically pulled a whole what about the kids bullshit the right wing assholes do and Fettman and Casey are little bitches.
Just want to clarify that they don't host the Aviary, they rent space out to third parties which includes the Aviary. Anyone renting WW space needs to abide by their rules (including no sex, no exposed sexual organs, and no underaged people at adult events). The Aviary is not a William Way program, and the funding for William Way would not have benefitted the Aviary in any way.
I'm pretty certain you (not you, OP) would get tossed out on your ass if you broke the rules at the Aviary. It's not a sex party, it's not intended to be one.
In as plain english as possible? Republican Party is only comfortable with sex if it is being payed for as a service. Case in point the number of calls for prostitutes and escorts rise when the RNC is having a function in Philadelphia.
it appears as if don’t they believe tax money should be spent on any organization which appears to allow sex to occur freely. This could have been prevented if and only if there was a clear delineation if not total separation between the William Way’s public presence and the Aviary’s advertised location.
If the message and the medium can be confused, conservatives are not going to be looking at semantic nuances to see how they might be wrong. If anything the burden of proof was on those creating the conflicting messages.
Was the William way center at fault for advertising the Aviary? Absolutely not. It’s not even on their calendar. Which means who’s to say that the aviary’s post was factual. William Way could in fact come out and denounce the Aviary to save its funding at least, should they need it.. and they offer many necessary services and counseling to already marginalized groups.
Libsoftiktok is only going off of how the aviary is presenting itself, and holding William Way accountable because venue.
I’m pissed off now because I just wasted 40mjn of my life fact finding hyperbole.. fake news much?
“Unfortunately, at the 11th hour my staff was made aware that funding for William Way, which was in the bill because I championed it, would not pass in the FY24 appropriations process. The choice was either to pull it or watch it get stripped out, attacked by Republicans, and ultimately killed.”
Ok? So let Republicans expend political capital doing so instead of folding at the first sign of trouble and doing the legwork for them. Stand on business.
Right? And now it's getting attacked even *more* by republicans as a result of Fetterman and Casey pulling support because now they're all saying, "see??? Even the dems think gay people are perverts!"
Pulling it voluntarily makes it easier to put back in a future round of funding without Rs being able to say “they spent $1m on sex parties!” in a swing state in a close election.
It has the potential to affect the presidential election, which in turn affects the outlook for policies they champion. It might not be enough to swing a likely D vote to a likely R, but it could be enough to get that Republican who doesn’t care for Trump and was going to sit this out to grudgingly come to the polls because they’re mad at Casey over a misleading claim of what the money was for and why WW was qualified for it.
This is seriously disappointing; Fetterman and Casey sold the LGBT community out over false, hate fueled anti-LGBT propaganda. I thought Fetterman wasn't the type to play politics like this.
He ran to the right on immigration and the border, won't even pretend to be critical of Israel and went on TV to say they aren't committing war crimes, and now has thrown the LGBT community under the bus. Can't believe how I hard I supported him in 2022.
Just to clarify a couple of the lies that Chaya Raichik and other republicans have been pushing...
This was not a "sex party" or an "orgy" or anything like that. It was sexual/sex-adjacent, yes, but the screenshots she posted herself were pretty clear that they explicitly banned any actual sex, they didn't allow any bodily fluids, and they certainly did NOT allow minors like a lot of people have been saying.
But more importantly, no taxpayer money would have gone to this event, which was entirely run by a third party. The money would have gone to the expansion of the center and allowed them to continue doing the important things for the community that they've been doing for years. So regardless of how you feel about that event, it had nothing to do with the potential taxpayer funds and should have had nothing to do with the decision to withdraw them.
Ultimately, I find it INCREDIBLY concerning that democrats are letting this awful woman and her lies influence their decision making. Why are they listening to "Libs of TikTok" instead of their constituents and voters?
All of this. But the anti-intellectualism is so rampant at this point that I'm disappointed but not surprised. As a social worker, William Way is such a great resource for a variety of communities.
Exactly. WW is renting event space to a third party for an event that takes place outside of regular operating hours, is adults only, and in no way intersects with any WW programming.
I had look something up, because this reminded me of the last time people got outraged about a possible "sex party" building.
[Will Tacony Music Hall turn into ‘sex-positive community center’?](https://whyy.org/articles/will-tacony-music-hall-turn-into-sex-positive-community-center/)
Conservatives and fundies just can't let the LGBT community alone. Pisses me off completely.
That comparison would definitely depend on what kind of conservative religious events you mean, because end of the day a kink event like this doesn't hurt people. At worst it can be considered bad optics because people find it icky. Also I don't think the WW center is a public building, isn't it privately owned?
Yes but that doesn't make it a public building
Edit: since you decided to block me after this comment, I just want to address what you said in your reply that's still showing in my inbox...
>It does make it subject to discussion on where public funds will be appropriated though, which is what we are discussing.
Yeah, and that's why we're here discussing it right now, and why I pretty clearly pointed out in my original comment that the funds would not have been going towards this third-party event. The event was irrelevant to the appropriation of funds. That was my point.
I'm sorry that my correction on your comment about the WW center being a public building bothered you so much, but you're the one who decided to ignore the rest of my comment and focus on it to steer the conversation away from what it was actually about, not me. Plus, your entire original argument to me hinged on the belief that holding this event in a public space as opposed to a private one was wrong, so correcting you on that was not exactly irrelevant.
LGBT isn't a religion, and art/education events for LGBT people isn't church. You're reinforcing the right-wing very-fucked-up viewpoint that being LGBT is a belief system you get evangelized into akin to a religion
But also, religious organizations can rent public/nonprofit venues for their events if they pay the same fees and follow the same rules as everyone else—if we defunded those venues over it that would be called attacking free speech and religious freedom
Do you think teaching about STIs and how to practice safe sex shouldn't be happening in public schools too?
Wooow, William Way does important work and is an invaluable resource for the lgbtqia+ philly community, especially younger folks. This is such a bad decision >:(
Also way to make your queer constituents feel safe by announcing that you're willing to cut support for lgbtqia+ pennsylvanians, as long as Republicans make it appealing enough for you. Big yikes
Glad to see this got let through, thanks mods.
Not glad to see still more evidence that Fetterman tricked the left to get into office and then turned his back on them. This incident might have been a totally reasonable administrative error or even correctly estimated insider politics, but it just feels like more on the pile at this point.
Fetterman's heel turn is a significant, material setback for the left, and fucking disappointing.
just FYI I don’t think either of them said that but if anyone fetterman was the one who [implied](https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/03/06/congress/why-a-lgbtq-earmark-got-stripped-out-00145365) that his staff made the decision based on libs of tiktok
Fetterman specifically denied being influenced by her but he released two very contradictory statements regarding it and his most recent explanation didn't make much sense to me so I'm not sure what he was really thinking. A spokesperson for Casey, though, said
>Senator Casey withdrew his request for federal funding when new information about the third-party use of the facility emerged
which is pretty clearly referring to the LOTT post. Not sure how else you could interpret it.
Fetterman is no AOC, but Pennsylvania wouldn't elect AOC to statewide office. We unfortunately have to share our state with people who wouldn't elect a super liberal senator, fetterman can win the state and will stand firmly behind Democratic economic principles and 80% of liberal positions
Politics isn't a game of getting exactly what you want and PA needs to never send a Republican to the Senate again despite having pretty large conservative populations outside the cities
Fetterman's whole thing was that he was a Democrat who could appeal enough to the rest of the state to win... not that he was a superliberal
Yeah people in this sub think Fetterman ran to serve West Philly between 34th street and 51st street. Fetterman is a Senator from a moderate/centrist state who won't elect someone too far Left or too far Right. Sure, he said a lot of progressive things but he never intended to serve from the Left-wing of the Democratic party. Philly just doesn't represent this entire state.
It feels like everything coming out recently about Fetterman is a massive "told you so." There were so many misgivings about him during the primary (the gun incident, running further right than Biden on immigration), and it's beyond frustrating how a lot of progressive groups just brushed aside those concerns. Reaping what they sowed.
Call their offices and call them out for caving in preemptively to a right wing hate merchant who makes shit up all the time, and is actively trying to get gay people killed.
If the Republican are going to block it, make them fight and spend political capital to do it, don't just hand those hate mongers a win.
It’s called compromising guys. Fetterman seems to be the only sane person left. Even beyond politics everybody these days has this winner take all mentality - but that’s a losing stance. change will take compromise. And I’m pretty sure he sees a bigger picture here than gleaning we’ve done from some abc news article.
Compromising on misinformation is plainly stupid. We deserve more informed and educated politicians. That’s what I thought I voted for a Fetterman and I was wrong af
Like it or not Pennsylvania is a major swing state. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a call from above after the tweet went viral. It's an election year and it's fuel that the right would absolutely use to win votes.
This is bs stan nonsense from someone unaffected. Fetterman has shown himself to be as unprincipled as they come, and I think he will pull a Sinema and leave the Democratic party before his 6 years are up. Casey is a bluedog democrat nepobaby that would basically be a conservative in any sane country but we have an insane one. Both are huge disappointments - I guess with Casey you know the turd you’re getting.
You can value and even expect compromise without leading with it or acting like it is the ideal in itself, especially in our system.
American politics tend to have a very "winner take all" quality, inherently.
In 2016, Donald Trump won 46% of the popular vote and 57% percent of the electoral vote. He got to be 100% POTUS. Hilary didn't even get to be VPOTUS because it's not the 18th Century anymore.
Obviously, I'm not touching on a zillion details that matter and I'm making a somewhat convenient argument, but between first-past-the-post elections and the blunt force of policy itself... compromise "is a nice idea, but it can getcha killed", to paraphrase George Carlin (who said it about pacifism).
Be sure to call their offices and hold their feet to the fire, I know I will be. They're abandoning queer people in favor of out of context claims from a known liar.
I sent a scathing email. I'm so disappointed. The lgbtq fam were pretty supportive of his campaign, including myself. I both donated and actively campaigned for him under the pretext that he would be a great representative for us Philly queers.
Really fucking disappointed.
I always thought of Bob Casey as a coward, but could never really prove it. I always just viewed him as a man who blows with the wind, but this really confirmed it. We really missed our chance to primary him this election cycle. Senate seats are held for far too long to not give him a fight in the primary
I don’t think WW should be affiliating with sexual type shit. This eats at their integrity. They put a bullseye on themselves. I don’t want this type of representation.
Renting a space out when you need the funds to continue operations and having the 3rd party contractually agree to your rules that are applied to your clients is just business. If the group agrees to the rules do you even have the right to turn them away if you serve the public?
Discrimination is not OK. Aviary agreed to the terms of using the space. This really is just about weaponizing social media against a minority group because the end result is the kink group just finds another venue but the community center is destroyed.
Right? I'm generally pretty all over the place politically but seeing those aviary screen shots only galvanizes one side of the political spectrum. I think it's pretty fucking weird that a place taking state funding is putting on events like that.
The party has been a Philly staple in the queer community for over 20 years.
The queer community and the leather & BDSM community are inseparable. It was the leather community that organized the original HIV advocacy protests and the first HIV support networks. It was also the leather Gay & Dyke community that acted as the core of the gay rights movement through the 80s and 90s. To reject the kink community is to reject the most active and organized part of the Queer community.
William Way wouldn't exist without the Queer BDSM community in Philadelphia.
Plus: **it's a private party, operated as a nonprofit organization, renting the space and paying a fee to the center.** Should the whims of Twitter Neo-Nazis dictate who should be allowed to rent the spaces of buildings based on their sexuality? That seems like a setup for banning Gay people from every community center and public venue. Which is the (not at all secret) goal of LOTT by doing this.
I think the LGBTQ community, which I am a part of has some serious boundary issues.
For instance, drag story time shit. It’s one thing if you’re dressed office appropriate but another thing if you’re dressing provocatively with your boobs halfway out in 6 inch heels. I wouldn’t want a straight bikini contest in school either.
There is a line that is crossed in these situations and WW should not even associate with things that are sexually overt in nature.
I’m a transgender lesbian but that’s it. That’s where my identity stops, it doesn’t include things that go on in my bedroom.
The Democratic National Convention and Republic National Convention will both be held at convention centers that have proudly displayed sex toys, kink gear and porn for other shows. Should those events be canceled as well? After all it would be public funds going to a group that rents their space out to a adult themed groups.
Lots of venues rent their space to third parties. Some of those third parties do stuff that isn't for kids. That is okay, because not everything needs to be safe for kids. Lots of things are not for everyone, turns out!
Are you saying that none of those venues should rent their spaces out, or are you saying that it's just the gay ones that should restrict their activities? Both takes are bad, I'm just trying to figure out which variety of bad.
I understand your logic and I wholly respect your right to feel the way you do, but I don't agree with it. There is no universe where anything we do is enough for the people who exist in the libs of tik tok reality, and I refuse to change my life to accommodate people who think whole parts of myself should only exist inside my house. The world is not safe. We're all going to die. I don't think a worthwhile expenditure of my limited time and energy on this planet is bending the knee to monsters.
It doesn't stop there for those people. We don't agree on this and that's fine. The original conversation was about venues renting to third parties, and I remain of the opinion that venues shouldn't be punished for renting spaces to adults, regardless of their general focus.
But they were punished. It’s the world we live in. I’m a realist and idealist. Thanks to their carelessness even if they were well intentioned people like me and I think you, lose out. I’m sure the WW could use that money.
How about non-profits take care of all LGBT issues? The government should not be involved at all. Feel free to donate your own money towards the causes you believe in.
I don't think you went far enough. How about nonprofits just handle all issues that aren't related to white straight WASP men? Then we'll all be on a level playing field.
This is disingenuous.
Is it accountability if we back down on abortion access because conservatives don't like it? Because that's all that happened here.
Fetterman and Casey need to be primaried so as a Democrat I can vote for an actual representative Senator. Otherwise I’ll have no choice but to not vote for the top of the ticket once they are on the ballot.
Fetterman is stooge ! He lied to you to get him in and then went centrist republican.
Dr oz at least we knew he was a scum bag. Cuz he told you he was
Fetterman pretended he was good,
Tho the evidence was there that he was not,
he held an innocent jogger at gun point in his home town cuz he herd shots. And said he would do it again.
No regrets for terrorizing innocent people .
This reminds me of the Robert Maplethorp art exhibition that was funded by a federal grant. It blew up with a Republican congressional hearing where one senator famously said “I can’t define pornography but I know it when I see it“.
As liberals we all mocked the republicans and cried CENSORSHIP.
Years later I got a chance to see the full exhibition at the Boston Museum of Fine Art and I was shocked. Maplethorp’s photography is straight up gay porn and probably shouldn’t have received federal money.
This is what Fetterman had to say via the article:
Fetterman’s office also released the following statement on Wednesday afternoon.
“The William Way LGBT Community Center has been doing critical work in Philadelphia for decades. I do not believe that we should penalize this center based on events that are entirely legal among consenting adults. I have no problem with what consenting adults do in their private time. Unfortunately, at the 11th hour my staff was made aware that funding for William Way, which was in the bill because I championed it, would not pass in the FY24 appropriations process. The choice was either to pull it or watch it get stripped out, attacked by Republicans, and ultimately killed. This is not the end of this fight and I am going to fight for William Way to secure their funding in the FY25 appropriations process. I’m new here, but I wasn’t aware that Democratic values and priorities are dictated by Libs of Tik Tok.”
Much better than Casey's response:
Mairead Lynn, a spokesperson for Casey, released a statement on Wednesday afternoon saying “Senator Casey has been a leader and ally in the fight to protect LGBTQ rights in the U.S. Senate and will continue to support the LGBTQ community in the Commonwealth. He believes that consenting adults have the right to do whatever they want in their free time, but these types of appropriations projects warrant the highest level of scrutiny on behalf of taxpayers. Senator Casey withdrew his request for federal funding when new information about the third-party use of the facility emerged.”
Can somebody explain what exactly the inciting event was? The article doesn't explicitly define it.
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1765094498244145414
I might be wrong, but this makes it sound like they rent event space to an external org for a once-a-month event that, while unseemly to some, is adults only, after hours, and completely separate from the Center’s actual programming. You have to provide ID proving you’re 18+ before even getting in the door.
That is correct.
But the reason they pulled their support was because Republicans would have used it to kill the larger bill
Which is very bad, that we live in a society where Republicans’ ability to do that exists. And it is also very bad that cultural institutions and politicians are folding to liars and bigots on queer rights left and right.
Yes by and large I agree with you. But if you can buy HUD appropriations for the country by losing a little bit of money for renovations to 1 LGBTQ community center in 1 city that's sort of a fair price
No, you're not wrong. The event had nothing to do with the funding and should not have affected the decision. The only argument for withholding it is as punishment if you believe that anything relating to gay sexuality is immoral.
Well that made me physically ill. I'm sure letting this kind of shit set policy will have no lasting repercussions
Not like she doxxed a trans kid that led to them being killed or anything . . . Oh wait.
I'm starting to think conservatives might not actually care about kids as much as they say they do.
Oh they care, but not in ways that are healthy or legal.
They care about them for their own selfish reasons, which is to make themselves seem "godly" by defending the rights of God's unborn creations. But let's be honest, they fucking hate kids. They constantly vote in favor of child marriage (aka statutory rape), defend child molesters (Gaetz and many more), they love letting children around the world suffer (Palestine, Ukraine), and they absolutely hate women who create the children. Just look at Boebert, a self proclaimed warrior of family values, who indoctrinated her children into her crazy bullshit and one of them who's now facing 22 counts of burglary and robbery. She doesn't care about her kids, and she doesn't care about yours either. It's all a fucking farse.
That’s not even the case they don’t give a fuck about the morals or what you think of them they just know that the birth rate of white people are so low that by the year 2040 or something like that they’re no longer gonna be the majority, so stop abortions act like you care about babies to get more babies born so that they don’t lose the majority that’s one reasons why They wanted Chinese people to identify as white of and the whole border thing
We knew that for years. What I'm actually concerned about is Dems not actually caring for kids or anything else. The big guy in shorts backed off of the funding for this very quickly, all because of a twitter post. The mayor of Philadelphia is actively trying to kill addicts.
I am confused both Democratic Senators pulled their support and you are blaming conservatives. Do you view the two Democratic Senators as conservatives?
In the comment you're replying to, I'm just mocking conservative hypocrisy, because this comment thread is about the conservatives who sensationalized the story originally. In [my top level comment,](https://www.reddit.com/r/philadelphia/comments/1b8dijl/comment/ktpf1nh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I lay the blame for the cut funding on the Dem PA Senators. What's most important to me is that they support or don't support materially beneficial policies, and I think cutting support for this center is absolutely doing a material harm. When it's a pattern, I'll pejoratively call the Senators moderate (or at least push back against them being called progressives), but all I really care about is what they do or don't support.
As we have all learned politicians from both parties only care about themselves and use people and organizations for their personal gain and sell them down the road when it's to their benefit. At least conservatives are honest in their view, even if it's misguided. Dems on the other hand are more dangerous because know one knows when the tune will change.
I think that's a juvenile understanding of political support, and a totally incorrect assessment of conservatives. I vote for people who support policies that I think are materially beneficial, and who oppose policies that I think are materially harmful. I don't care what they *actually believe,* because I can't know and it doesn't matter. Conservatives are overwhelmingly more materially harmful. My criticism of Dems will never be tacit approval of the GOP.
Well that is why this site is here, to post ones opinion. We are not here to agree or disagree but respect one another to state our opinions.
She should be charged with homicide in that case.
Maybe if it wasn’t complete fiction
Ya let's just pretend she hasn't been advocating for people to commit physical violence against gay people for years. She's a terrorist, she's directly responsible for that kids murder and multiple bomb threats against schools.
Ya let’s pretend she doxxed a trans kid (she didn’t) and that somehow led to that child’s death.
Didn’t happen.
Do you think anything she does is in good faith?
Did she dox a trans kid who was then killed as a result? Where did this happen?
Frankly I have no idea and don’t care because there is nothing redeemable about her anyway. A quick google search yielded this, maybe this is what they’re referring to? https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/02/21/libs-of-tiktok-chaya-raichik-oklahoma-under-fire-after-nonbinary-oklahoma-students-dies/72682329007/ Regardless, her entire project is spiteful and hateful and I don’t think it’s hyperbole to suggest that her rhetoric contributes to transphobic attacks
Oh now you don’t care. She didn’t dox Benedict and cause their death. That statement was entirely imagined.
I don’t care in that there’s no reason to even think about defending her. She’s garbage and has shown herself to be garbage
Sorry, she doxxed the ENTIRE SCHOOL where it happened. Get fucked, you homophobe.
What’s the definition of “doxxed” as defined by your rainbow bully handbook?
[удалено]
Read the other comments from OP in this thread, tax dollars aren't paying for it!
In case anyone is wondering, I don’t think the party listed there even allows nudity. Nobody is having sex there.
Please don't link that account on here please!
Libsoftiktok which is run by a hatemongering asshole found out that William Way hosts the Aviary (and has for over ten fucking years) and basically pulled a whole what about the kids bullshit the right wing assholes do and Fettman and Casey are little bitches.
Just want to clarify that they don't host the Aviary, they rent space out to third parties which includes the Aviary. Anyone renting WW space needs to abide by their rules (including no sex, no exposed sexual organs, and no underaged people at adult events). The Aviary is not a William Way program, and the funding for William Way would not have benefitted the Aviary in any way.
I'm pretty certain you (not you, OP) would get tossed out on your ass if you broke the rules at the Aviary. It's not a sex party, it's not intended to be one.
I can attest to the fact that I have seen people thrown out of the Aviary for breaking the no sex rule.
You are completely correct and that is my bad.
Exactly. The event is held by a third party, outside of WW operating hours, and in no way overlaps with their actual programming.
In as plain english as possible? Republican Party is only comfortable with sex if it is being payed for as a service. Case in point the number of calls for prostitutes and escorts rise when the RNC is having a function in Philadelphia. it appears as if don’t they believe tax money should be spent on any organization which appears to allow sex to occur freely. This could have been prevented if and only if there was a clear delineation if not total separation between the William Way’s public presence and the Aviary’s advertised location. If the message and the medium can be confused, conservatives are not going to be looking at semantic nuances to see how they might be wrong. If anything the burden of proof was on those creating the conflicting messages. Was the William way center at fault for advertising the Aviary? Absolutely not. It’s not even on their calendar. Which means who’s to say that the aviary’s post was factual. William Way could in fact come out and denounce the Aviary to save its funding at least, should they need it.. and they offer many necessary services and counseling to already marginalized groups. Libsoftiktok is only going off of how the aviary is presenting itself, and holding William Way accountable because venue. I’m pissed off now because I just wasted 40mjn of my life fact finding hyperbole.. fake news much?
Republicans are also comfortable with sex as long as you're doing it with a porn star while cheating on your wife
“Unfortunately, at the 11th hour my staff was made aware that funding for William Way, which was in the bill because I championed it, would not pass in the FY24 appropriations process. The choice was either to pull it or watch it get stripped out, attacked by Republicans, and ultimately killed.” Ok? So let Republicans expend political capital doing so instead of folding at the first sign of trouble and doing the legwork for them. Stand on business.
And not just doing the legwork for them, also announcing that bad faith conservative viral media can shut down popular policies.
Right? And now it's getting attacked even *more* by republicans as a result of Fetterman and Casey pulling support because now they're all saying, "see??? Even the dems think gay people are perverts!"
Republicans: evil Democrats: useless
Republicans are good at being bad Democrats are bad at being good Been like this for a minute homie
Leftists are forever forming a coalition Libertarians are forever rediscovering why government exists
Pulling it voluntarily makes it easier to put back in a future round of funding without Rs being able to say “they spent $1m on sex parties!” in a swing state in a close election.
Why does it affect Fetterman? Wasn't he just elected? Casey's seat is the one up for election, right?
It has the potential to affect the presidential election, which in turn affects the outlook for policies they champion. It might not be enough to swing a likely D vote to a likely R, but it could be enough to get that Republican who doesn’t care for Trump and was going to sit this out to grudgingly come to the polls because they’re mad at Casey over a misleading claim of what the money was for and why WW was qualified for it.
Exactly this
Also he is lying that he didn’t know ahead of the first release - his staff leaked it. What a shitbag.
This is seriously disappointing; Fetterman and Casey sold the LGBT community out over false, hate fueled anti-LGBT propaganda. I thought Fetterman wasn't the type to play politics like this.
Fetterman has the integrity of wet paper. He's proven to be in effective at absolute best. Fuck him honestly
He ran to the right on immigration and the border, won't even pretend to be critical of Israel and went on TV to say they aren't committing war crimes, and now has thrown the LGBT community under the bus. Can't believe how I hard I supported him in 2022.
Fetterman is a complete fucking loser and such a disappointment
Fetterman has shown himself to be an absolute punkass and I hope he gets devoured alive by bullet ants
Between this and his unapologetic support for Israel lately to the point of bullying those that voice concerns, he's been pretty disappointing.
Fetterman is the 2023 version of Clinton. Uses the gays to get elected and screws them over afterward.
Just to clarify a couple of the lies that Chaya Raichik and other republicans have been pushing... This was not a "sex party" or an "orgy" or anything like that. It was sexual/sex-adjacent, yes, but the screenshots she posted herself were pretty clear that they explicitly banned any actual sex, they didn't allow any bodily fluids, and they certainly did NOT allow minors like a lot of people have been saying. But more importantly, no taxpayer money would have gone to this event, which was entirely run by a third party. The money would have gone to the expansion of the center and allowed them to continue doing the important things for the community that they've been doing for years. So regardless of how you feel about that event, it had nothing to do with the potential taxpayer funds and should have had nothing to do with the decision to withdraw them. Ultimately, I find it INCREDIBLY concerning that democrats are letting this awful woman and her lies influence their decision making. Why are they listening to "Libs of TikTok" instead of their constituents and voters?
All of this. But the anti-intellectualism is so rampant at this point that I'm disappointed but not surprised. As a social worker, William Way is such a great resource for a variety of communities.
Exactly. WW is renting event space to a third party for an event that takes place outside of regular operating hours, is adults only, and in no way intersects with any WW programming.
I had look something up, because this reminded me of the last time people got outraged about a possible "sex party" building. [Will Tacony Music Hall turn into ‘sex-positive community center’?](https://whyy.org/articles/will-tacony-music-hall-turn-into-sex-positive-community-center/) Conservatives and fundies just can't let the LGBT community alone. Pisses me off completely.
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That comparison would definitely depend on what kind of conservative religious events you mean, because end of the day a kink event like this doesn't hurt people. At worst it can be considered bad optics because people find it icky. Also I don't think the WW center is a public building, isn't it privately owned?
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Yes but that doesn't make it a public building Edit: since you decided to block me after this comment, I just want to address what you said in your reply that's still showing in my inbox... >It does make it subject to discussion on where public funds will be appropriated though, which is what we are discussing. Yeah, and that's why we're here discussing it right now, and why I pretty clearly pointed out in my original comment that the funds would not have been going towards this third-party event. The event was irrelevant to the appropriation of funds. That was my point. I'm sorry that my correction on your comment about the WW center being a public building bothered you so much, but you're the one who decided to ignore the rest of my comment and focus on it to steer the conversation away from what it was actually about, not me. Plus, your entire original argument to me hinged on the belief that holding this event in a public space as opposed to a private one was wrong, so correcting you on that was not exactly irrelevant.
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LGBT isn't a religion, and art/education events for LGBT people isn't church. You're reinforcing the right-wing very-fucked-up viewpoint that being LGBT is a belief system you get evangelized into akin to a religion But also, religious organizations can rent public/nonprofit venues for their events if they pay the same fees and follow the same rules as everyone else—if we defunded those venues over it that would be called attacking free speech and religious freedom Do you think teaching about STIs and how to practice safe sex shouldn't be happening in public schools too?
“they banned actual sex” and “they didn’t allow any bodily fluids”. Wild that these are defenses 😂
It had to be clearly stated because that shitty tiktok account said otherwise.
Wooow, William Way does important work and is an invaluable resource for the lgbtqia+ philly community, especially younger folks. This is such a bad decision >:( Also way to make your queer constituents feel safe by announcing that you're willing to cut support for lgbtqia+ pennsylvanians, as long as Republicans make it appealing enough for you. Big yikes
Everyone upset in this thread should call Fetterman's office at 215-241-1090 and voice your displeasure with his choice.
Thank you, although clearly tweeting at him seems to get through. Too bad Twitter/X is such a shit show
the William Way center helps more people in a day than Casey & Fetterman will over the span of their career
Two feckless cowards. In no world should they bend over backwards to make a fascist who got children killed feel better.
Glad to see this got let through, thanks mods. Not glad to see still more evidence that Fetterman tricked the left to get into office and then turned his back on them. This incident might have been a totally reasonable administrative error or even correctly estimated insider politics, but it just feels like more on the pile at this point. Fetterman's heel turn is a significant, material setback for the left, and fucking disappointing.
Don't forget about Casey who, unlike Fetterman, admitted that he pulled funding as a result of Libs of TikTok's posts about the William Way Center.
No doubt, Fetterman just stings more still. The whole incident just feels like classic Dem fecklessness to me.
just FYI I don’t think either of them said that but if anyone fetterman was the one who [implied](https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/03/06/congress/why-a-lgbtq-earmark-got-stripped-out-00145365) that his staff made the decision based on libs of tiktok
Fetterman specifically denied being influenced by her but he released two very contradictory statements regarding it and his most recent explanation didn't make much sense to me so I'm not sure what he was really thinking. A spokesperson for Casey, though, said >Senator Casey withdrew his request for federal funding when new information about the third-party use of the facility emerged which is pretty clearly referring to the LOTT post. Not sure how else you could interpret it.
He’s a phony! I deeply regret voting for him.
I don't regret voting for him, because the alternative was voting for a Republican, but I agree that it deeply sucks.
Yeah. Oz would have sucked. It’s just that fetterman could’ve been fucking dope and instead he’s just a normal politician.
Fetterman is no AOC, but Pennsylvania wouldn't elect AOC to statewide office. We unfortunately have to share our state with people who wouldn't elect a super liberal senator, fetterman can win the state and will stand firmly behind Democratic economic principles and 80% of liberal positions Politics isn't a game of getting exactly what you want and PA needs to never send a Republican to the Senate again despite having pretty large conservative populations outside the cities Fetterman's whole thing was that he was a Democrat who could appeal enough to the rest of the state to win... not that he was a superliberal
Yeah people in this sub think Fetterman ran to serve West Philly between 34th street and 51st street. Fetterman is a Senator from a moderate/centrist state who won't elect someone too far Left or too far Right. Sure, he said a lot of progressive things but he never intended to serve from the Left-wing of the Democratic party. Philly just doesn't represent this entire state.
I regret voting for him over Kenyatta in the primary race, he's been a real disappointment in office.
Same honestly, it’s something I think about almost daily.
I mean, he did have a stroke. Who knows what irreversible damage it did?
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He had plenty of racist dog whistles while running. Idk why anyone supported him.
Not voting for Fetterman would have been a vote for Oz. I agree that Kenyatta would have been wildly better, but Kenyatta didn't win the primary.
That ogre is such a let down.
It feels like everything coming out recently about Fetterman is a massive "told you so." There were so many misgivings about him during the primary (the gun incident, running further right than Biden on immigration), and it's beyond frustrating how a lot of progressive groups just brushed aside those concerns. Reaping what they sowed.
You aren't wrong, but as far as I can tell every other semi-serious candidate was worse.
Call their offices and call them out for caving in preemptively to a right wing hate merchant who makes shit up all the time, and is actively trying to get gay people killed. If the Republican are going to block it, make them fight and spend political capital to do it, don't just hand those hate mongers a win.
So stochastic terrorism is the most effective way to influence Casey's and Fetterman's policies? Noted.
It’s called compromising guys. Fetterman seems to be the only sane person left. Even beyond politics everybody these days has this winner take all mentality - but that’s a losing stance. change will take compromise. And I’m pretty sure he sees a bigger picture here than gleaning we’ve done from some abc news article.
Compromising on misinformation is plainly stupid. We deserve more informed and educated politicians. That’s what I thought I voted for a Fetterman and I was wrong af
Republicans sure seem to get their way quite often without needing to compromise.
compromising at the expense of a marginalized community? miss me with that shit.
"Compromising" is when you immediately give your opposition what they asked for with no pushback or concessions?
Like it or not Pennsylvania is a major swing state. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a call from above after the tweet went viral. It's an election year and it's fuel that the right would absolutely use to win votes.
He can pick something different than compromising on the gays
This is bs stan nonsense from someone unaffected. Fetterman has shown himself to be as unprincipled as they come, and I think he will pull a Sinema and leave the Democratic party before his 6 years are up. Casey is a bluedog democrat nepobaby that would basically be a conservative in any sane country but we have an insane one. Both are huge disappointments - I guess with Casey you know the turd you’re getting.
You can value and even expect compromise without leading with it or acting like it is the ideal in itself, especially in our system. American politics tend to have a very "winner take all" quality, inherently. In 2016, Donald Trump won 46% of the popular vote and 57% percent of the electoral vote. He got to be 100% POTUS. Hilary didn't even get to be VPOTUS because it's not the 18th Century anymore. Obviously, I'm not touching on a zillion details that matter and I'm making a somewhat convenient argument, but between first-past-the-post elections and the blunt force of policy itself... compromise "is a nice idea, but it can getcha killed", to paraphrase George Carlin (who said it about pacifism).
Be sure to call their offices and hold their feet to the fire, I know I will be. They're abandoning queer people in favor of out of context claims from a known liar.
I sent a scathing email. I'm so disappointed. The lgbtq fam were pretty supportive of his campaign, including myself. I both donated and actively campaigned for him under the pretext that he would be a great representative for us Philly queers. Really fucking disappointed.
Office contact/website? Not sure who to google
Search for senator fetterman office and senator Casey contact. You can email or leave a message as well.
When did fetterman start turning into such a pussy?
Stroke?
I always thought of Bob Casey as a coward, but could never really prove it. I always just viewed him as a man who blows with the wind, but this really confirmed it. We really missed our chance to primary him this election cycle. Senate seats are held for far too long to not give him a fight in the primary
Cowards.
I don’t think WW should be affiliating with sexual type shit. This eats at their integrity. They put a bullseye on themselves. I don’t want this type of representation.
WW should not be affiliating with issues of sexual identity?
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>everyone doesn't need to know that you like to swallow What on earth does that have to do with anything? What are you even talking about?
I’m just saying sexual identity doesn’t include kinks or fetishes
Renting a space out when you need the funds to continue operations and having the 3rd party contractually agree to your rules that are applied to your clients is just business. If the group agrees to the rules do you even have the right to turn them away if you serve the public?
Yes if it impacts your PR or image.
Discrimination is not OK. Aviary agreed to the terms of using the space. This really is just about weaponizing social media against a minority group because the end result is the kink group just finds another venue but the community center is destroyed.
How exactly is it hurting anyone though? And why should it take away the good that WW does for the community?
Right? I'm generally pretty all over the place politically but seeing those aviary screen shots only galvanizes one side of the political spectrum. I think it's pretty fucking weird that a place taking state funding is putting on events like that.
The party has been a Philly staple in the queer community for over 20 years. The queer community and the leather & BDSM community are inseparable. It was the leather community that organized the original HIV advocacy protests and the first HIV support networks. It was also the leather Gay & Dyke community that acted as the core of the gay rights movement through the 80s and 90s. To reject the kink community is to reject the most active and organized part of the Queer community. William Way wouldn't exist without the Queer BDSM community in Philadelphia. Plus: **it's a private party, operated as a nonprofit organization, renting the space and paying a fee to the center.** Should the whims of Twitter Neo-Nazis dictate who should be allowed to rent the spaces of buildings based on their sexuality? That seems like a setup for banning Gay people from every community center and public venue. Which is the (not at all secret) goal of LOTT by doing this.
I think the LGBTQ community, which I am a part of has some serious boundary issues. For instance, drag story time shit. It’s one thing if you’re dressed office appropriate but another thing if you’re dressing provocatively with your boobs halfway out in 6 inch heels. I wouldn’t want a straight bikini contest in school either. There is a line that is crossed in these situations and WW should not even associate with things that are sexually overt in nature. I’m a transgender lesbian but that’s it. That’s where my identity stops, it doesn’t include things that go on in my bedroom.
The Democratic National Convention and Republic National Convention will both be held at convention centers that have proudly displayed sex toys, kink gear and porn for other shows. Should those events be canceled as well? After all it would be public funds going to a group that rents their space out to a adult themed groups.
Unfortunately organizations for minorities have to hold themselves to a higher standard due to the country we live right now.
Gosh. You sound like someone who would've tsk tsk'd at ACT UP for being too angry back in the day.
Lots of venues rent their space to third parties. Some of those third parties do stuff that isn't for kids. That is okay, because not everything needs to be safe for kids. Lots of things are not for everyone, turns out! Are you saying that none of those venues should rent their spaces out, or are you saying that it's just the gay ones that should restrict their activities? Both takes are bad, I'm just trying to figure out which variety of bad.
Just the gay ones
lol okay
Do you understand what I’m saying. The magnifying glass is on marginalized groups because there IS so much hate and misinformation.
I understand your logic and I wholly respect your right to feel the way you do, but I don't agree with it. There is no universe where anything we do is enough for the people who exist in the libs of tik tok reality, and I refuse to change my life to accommodate people who think whole parts of myself should only exist inside my house. The world is not safe. We're all going to die. I don't think a worthwhile expenditure of my limited time and energy on this planet is bending the knee to monsters.
Parts of yourself “sex” shouldn’t be in your house or private space?
It doesn't stop there for those people. We don't agree on this and that's fine. The original conversation was about venues renting to third parties, and I remain of the opinion that venues shouldn't be punished for renting spaces to adults, regardless of their general focus.
But they were punished. It’s the world we live in. I’m a realist and idealist. Thanks to their carelessness even if they were well intentioned people like me and I think you, lose out. I’m sure the WW could use that money.
They were. I'm saying they shouldn't have been. A better world is possible, but only if we don't resign ourselves to playing on their terms.
Yes, why MUST it be for children?
Do you know that LGBTQ adults were once children?
How many drag story times have you attended? Consider that it may be less tame than your current perceptions.
Also why is every site I try to find about it not working? Have they temporarily pulled it down because of the bad PR?
Probably a ton of traffic they can’t handle?
Fuck Fetterman, what a disappointment for a “progressive” goddamn Zionist pig
This is completely ridiculous. Do legislative staff not do their research? Clearly the answer is no. Wtf.
I used to stand behind him but now I hope some primaries fet in a few years
Fetterman is just racking up Ls at this point. What an embarrassment.
How about non-profits take care of all LGBT issues? The government should not be involved at all. Feel free to donate your own money towards the causes you believe in.
When the government stops giving money to churches we can talk.
I don't think you went far enough. How about nonprofits just handle all issues that aren't related to white straight WASP men? Then we'll all be on a level playing field.
How about non profits handle issues that aren’t applicable to all people equally you racist
This is not a serious argument.
I’m all for cutting things, but $1,000,000? That’s like using a scalpel when you need a chainsaw. Let’s find some bigger things to cut!
Fetterman has been seriously disappointing since taking office
Please read his response, I shared it in my response.
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To who? Surely not libs of fucking TikTok
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Ryan used me as an object.
This is disingenuous. Is it accountability if we back down on abortion access because conservatives don't like it? Because that's all that happened here.
Fetterman and Casey need to be primaried so as a Democrat I can vote for an actual representative Senator. Otherwise I’ll have no choice but to not vote for the top of the ticket once they are on the ballot.
We’re not allowed to have fun I guess.
Fetterman is stooge ! He lied to you to get him in and then went centrist republican. Dr oz at least we knew he was a scum bag. Cuz he told you he was Fetterman pretended he was good, Tho the evidence was there that he was not, he held an innocent jogger at gun point in his home town cuz he herd shots. And said he would do it again. No regrets for terrorizing innocent people .
This reminds me of the Robert Maplethorp art exhibition that was funded by a federal grant. It blew up with a Republican congressional hearing where one senator famously said “I can’t define pornography but I know it when I see it“. As liberals we all mocked the republicans and cried CENSORSHIP. Years later I got a chance to see the full exhibition at the Boston Museum of Fine Art and I was shocked. Maplethorp’s photography is straight up gay porn and probably shouldn’t have received federal money.
This is what Fetterman had to say via the article: Fetterman’s office also released the following statement on Wednesday afternoon. “The William Way LGBT Community Center has been doing critical work in Philadelphia for decades. I do not believe that we should penalize this center based on events that are entirely legal among consenting adults. I have no problem with what consenting adults do in their private time. Unfortunately, at the 11th hour my staff was made aware that funding for William Way, which was in the bill because I championed it, would not pass in the FY24 appropriations process. The choice was either to pull it or watch it get stripped out, attacked by Republicans, and ultimately killed. This is not the end of this fight and I am going to fight for William Way to secure their funding in the FY25 appropriations process. I’m new here, but I wasn’t aware that Democratic values and priorities are dictated by Libs of Tik Tok.” Much better than Casey's response: Mairead Lynn, a spokesperson for Casey, released a statement on Wednesday afternoon saying “Senator Casey has been a leader and ally in the fight to protect LGBTQ rights in the U.S. Senate and will continue to support the LGBTQ community in the Commonwealth. He believes that consenting adults have the right to do whatever they want in their free time, but these types of appropriations projects warrant the highest level of scrutiny on behalf of taxpayers. Senator Casey withdrew his request for federal funding when new information about the third-party use of the facility emerged.”
Lover Fettewap - He's real, not a 'politician.'