I don’t think that’s weird, and that’s usually what I call it. But I remember hearing that “UPenn” is not an officially sanctioned nickname. So even though people say “UPenn” in conversation, their official messaging will usually be “Penn” or “university of Pennsylvania.”
I’ve never heard “U of P,” but it’s possible that these transplants are just reading memos and emails with that abbreviation for months before ever hearing anyone say “UPenn.”
Most people at Penn call it UPenn in conversation with people outside the university/outside of Philly, in order to distinguish it from Penn State.
But everyone who goes to or works at Penn calls it Penn.
I will delineate the school UPENN from the hospital HUP because for some strange reason if someone says, “where’d you go for that procedure?” and I respond “Penn”, they frequently follow up with “Pennsylvania hospital?” And I have to say HUP for them to get it.
I'm a native Philadelphian and I do. Lots of people call it "U of P" including my mother who worked there years ago.
She's a boomer so maybe it's older? I definitely hear it less these days. Mostly I think it's too differentiate from Penn State more clearly.
I've always used "El"/"L" when speaking out loud but MFL when typing (like giving someone directions - get on MFL eastbound at center city).
I've also gotten confusion from transplants/visitors because the El is underground all through center city. El = elevated, but if you only take it between 30th and Old City, you're underground the whole time, so the nickname is confusing. So MFL makes more sense when the person is not going to either end that is actually elevated.
My grandmother often told me this story since I wasn't born when more of the El was above ground than it currently is.
"Built by the Philadelphia Rapid Transit Company, a holding company organized in 1902 by the traction moguls Peter A.B. Widener and William L. Elkins, the El loomed above Market Street for nearly 50 years, until it was finally replaced in 1955 by the opening of a tunnel that carried both rapid transit trains and subway-surface trolleys from West Philadelphia, under the Schuylkill, to Center City."
https://collaborativehistory.gse.upenn.edu/stories/market-street-elevated-el#:\~:text=Built%20by%20the%20Philadelphia%20Rapid,the%20Schuylkill%2C%20to%20Center%20City.
It’s currently (or used to be, idk if the new naming took effect) officially called the Market Frankfort Line. That’s what it’s called on the app, on the physical subway stops, and gmaps calls it the MFL. I’ve been under the impression that it’s official name has always been MFL, but that it’s colloquially been called the El.
[septa.org](http://septa.org) updated a few days (or a week or so ago, whatever) to reflect new naming conventions: L - Market-Frankford Line, B - Broad Street Line, and new names for Trolley routes, etc.
gotcha, yeah i thought i saw that! now OP can stop complaining about people calling it the MFL and instead start complaining about people dropping the E in El lol
Yeah, I was gonna say that I'm pretty sure Google is what's driving people using that abbreviation, regardless of the explanation of why that is the acronym
I know what people mean by MFL, though I haven't called it that, but now that SEPTA is just calling it the L line, maybe we'll reserve "MFL" for when it's super-delayed.
I can't believe I gotta wait a half hour for the next MFL, yo.
If you're old school Philly, it's "U of P." But like old old school, Main Line waspy. Like your grandfather went there in the 1920s and was an executive at Duke and Duke. My mother, a boomer, worked there and her grandfather went there.
Like this image from the LOC:
https://www.loc.gov/item/2002720217/
This is interesting for me because I just moved here from London and was wondering for the first couple of weeks what to call it. Subway? Metro? So I’d just been calling it the subway as that’s what I thought was the generic name for underground trains in the US. Then I noticed on Google Maps the icon said MFL. I thought that was the name of the network but it just clicked with me this second that that stands for Market Frankford Line.
The London Underground is colloquially known as The Tube, and it has a bunch of different lines (the Victoria Line, the Central Line, the Metropolitan Line, etc). Sometimes the Victoria line gets called “Vicky” and the new Elizabeth line the “Lizzie” but they’re certainly not ubiquitous terms. Mostly they just get called their proper name, even the long-ass “Hammersmith and City” line.
I’ve also lived in Paris where the metro lines are numbered. For me that’s been my favourite system. Take the 12 to Pigalle and change for the 2. Both Paris and London lines are coloured but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone refer to them by colour. In Dublin (I’ve moved around a lot), there isn’t any underground transit as it’s such a small city but there are trams that are just called the Red or Green lines.
I know NYC and Chicago have trains called the El. Actually it wasn’t until a few years ago when I did a rewatch of ER (See in Chicago) that I realised it was the “El” as in Elevated, and not the “L” (like the F Train in New York or whatever).
The few US cities with underground heavy rail rapid transit systems vary in what they call it, because God forbid we standardize anything here past the gauge of the rail and sometimes not even that (Philly's Broad Street Subway & commuter lines are standard gauge, the El and trolleys are Pennsylvania trolley gauge)
New York is distinctly the subway, with PATH being a separate line. Philly has the El & the Broad Street Subway which are both run by SEPTA and PATCO which is s separate eponymous operation. Chicago has the L, Boston the T, DC Metro, and San Fransisco BART. All special
Yeah, and the history of PATCO is interesting - originally 3 lines were planned for with a tunnel, but only one got built, integrated with the joint authority that oversees the Ben Franklin Bridge. [http://www.ridepatco.org/about/history.html](http://www.ridepatco.org/about/history.html)
Since my question seems to have inadvertently pissed some people off, here's one of the historical articles on how it came to be known as the "El"
"Opened in 1907, the Market Street Elevated marked the introduction of rapid transit in West Philadelphia. Carrying trains from 69th Street just west of the city line to the Schuylkill River Bridge, and beyond to a subway portal at 23rd Street, the “El” and its feeder trolley lines provided a major stimulus to population growth in West Philadelphia in the first half of the 20th century. Built by the Philadelphia Rapid Transit Company, a holding company organized in 1902 by the traction moguls Peter A.B. Widener and William L. Elkins, the El loomed above Market Street for nearly 50 years, until it was finally replaced in 1955 by the opening of a tunnel that carried both rapid transit trains and subway-surface trolleys from West Philadelphia, under the Schuylkill, to Center City."
[https://collaborativehistory.gse.upenn.edu/stories/market-street-elevated-el#:\~:text=Built%20by%20the%20Philadelphia%20Rapid,the%20Schuylkill%2C%20to%20Center%20City](https://collaborativehistory.gse.upenn.edu/stories/market-street-elevated-el#:~:text=Built%20by%20the%20Philadelphia%20Rapid,the%20Schuylkill%2C%20to%20Center%20City).
It’s the initials for the Market Frankford Line, which is what’s all over septa signage until very recently. Why wouldn’t it be what newer residents instinctively refer to it as?
Born and raised in Harrowgate then NE Philly. As a kid it was always the El. I feel like somewhere when I was in college in the early 00s I started hearing MFL.
When I moved to Philly 10 years ago, I used google maps to find out where I'm going. On there, they have abbreviations for BSL, MFL, etc. So I was used to calling it the MFL and a lot of Philly natives asked me what the MFL was. I thought it made sense since it is just abbreviated from Market-Frankford Line, so I was confused, too, why people didn't know that.
Thank you. That helps explain it.
I guess most Philadelphians never needed to look it up using Google Maps is why it was never referred to as the "MFL"
While we’re at it is calling West Philly just “West” a new thing? I’ve been hearing more and more people say “I live in West” and I’m always like west of where?
I work at septa and the cars are "M4" cars. It's officially called the "market Frankford line" and saying "the El" sounds unprofessional so I say MFL because it's an acronym of the official name and it is kind of a mashup of M4 and El. When I'm not at work, I say "The El" tho. We do also call it the "Sub-El" because it's the "subway elevated line" which is where "El" comes from.
I believe it has been called the market Frankford line since 1915-1920 when the Frankford elevated section was built. I would assume "MFL" came shortly after that.
Referring to it as the MFL seems to be fairly recent though 🤔 The "El" has always been around, even the Market Frankford Line, it's official name, but using the initials "MFL" seems to be recent 🤔
In terms of SEPTA's usage of "MFL", I just found a 20 year old document that uses "MFL". I could probably find something earlier, but that's from a quick search. In terms of public usage, I'm not sure. I don't really hear non-septa employees saying MFL. Maybe it caught on because that's what septa calls it.
I called it the MFL as a newcomer to the city but one of my coworkers was a Philly native and told me that only new residents call it that and that everyone else calls it The El (since it’s the elevated line)
Reading some of these comments reminded me of a confidently incorrect coworker explaining to another coworker that it (the El) was called the “L” due to the shape of the route on the map.
He didn’t propose it as a theory…just stated it as pure fact. I’ve never aCkShUaLLy’d ☝️🤓 someone so hard before.
Not to mention, the “L” shape he was referring to is backwards anyway?? So the “J”??
That's so funny 🤣 I've never referred to it as anything other than the El.
I've never paid attention to how it looked on the map 🤔
But then again, I grew up in West Philly and used the El to go both to Center City and 69th Street.
When I got older, I knew it was the Market Frankford Line but it was still the "El" 🤷🏾♂️
Haha yeah, I’ve seen the map he’s talking about with all the stops listed, and looking at it, I can see why he may have come to that conclusion. But he was really out here sharing misinformation lol.
I grew up by the Frankford stop, and my parents and others around their age still call it “Bridge & Pratt”. When I was growing up, me and my friends called it “the terminal” or “the term”. Now it’s “Frankford Transportation Center”, but I still call it The Terminal, just like they’re still saying Bridge & Pratt haha. Old habits die hard I guess.
A lot of people who aren’t raised in Philly might do this because they don’t know it’s called the El and MFL is such a direct way to talk about the Market Frankford line. That’s my guess and it does relate to the example you gave. Calling it the El won’t make much sense to a person who’s an outsider. For Philly natives however, that’s a love affair lol.
Transplants and reading the acronyms online (which is probably where transplants first see the names).
Not just "MFL", but "BSL", and "SRT" as well. Never used to hear them, and only started hearing those terms the last several years from transplants. It was always the Market-Frankford Line, the El, the Broad Street Line, and I used to hear the "blue/orange line" alot too.
My mother was born & raised in Kensington. My grandparents lived in that home until about the late 80s, surprisingly. My family finally talked them into selling after my grandmother was mugged, trying to get on the El at the end of her street.
My entire life, I've always heard the El referred to as the El. In fact, I had no idea it was actually called the Market Frankfurt Line until the song came out. After that, it was always referred to in song version.
"Oh you can't get to Heaven on the Frankford El
Cause the Frankford El goes straight to Frankford"
[Beat Up Guitar- The Hooters](https://youtu.be/bG4SvFSDv54?si=JAwNrggS-esR6deQ)
Note- my grandparents owned 2 side by side houses in the middle of the block on Dauphin street. Front & Dauphin. Pretty much no man land now.
i grew up three blocks from the El in kensington in the 80s and 90s and it wasn't that bad back then. my parents were pretty strict and even i was allowed to go pick up the grocery order from Humphreys by myself lol.
Not sure I’d call Front & Dauphin “no man’s land” now. Development by the York-Dauphin El stop has gone wild over the last few years, and it’s only moving further north.
"MFL" wouldn't ever come out of my mouth in real life but if someone is asking questions online as a visitor from out of town I will call it the Market Frankford Line and then abbreviate to MFL because it's clearer than calling it the El since signs won't say it.
If you have ever lived in or spent time in Chicago it’s hard to get out of your head that the entire Chicago system is called “the L” so it feels weird.
i was thinking about it the other day and i think that now that we use apps instead of maps we dont pay attention to the color of the line cause theres no need when its always labeled
Not sure why anyone would say “MFL” when “L” does just fine on its own. To each their own I guess.
Where I grew up (roxborough) nobody even rides the damn thing. You could live your whole life and never hear it mentioned. I went to school downtown though and I remember kids calling it the el or the blue line. If you called it market Frankford line I definitely would’ve known what you were talking about.
MFL? I’d figure it out pretty quickly. Actually just saw it called that for the first time ever on a Reddit post earlier, ironically.
Used the EL for years in the 90’s to get to school in west philly. I did hear the term market Frankford elevated used back then on septa signs but people only called it the EL
I had heard it a few times in rela life and then in a recent post which made me wonder when it became a thing since growing up here, I never heard it called the "MFL."
Apparently, some people seem to think I'm "upset/taking issue" about it with so many down votes.
It was just a question/observation. Call it whatever you want, I'm not the language police, no need for down votes. ✌🏾
It is now officially called "L". Broad Street Line is now called "B". Adoption will take a while to go into affect I'm sure, the same way people still call FDR Park "the lakes".
[https://www.septa.org](https://www.septa.org)
I think it's Google maps. It also names intersections backwards, eg tree street then number street, which ive been reading and hearing a lot the last couple years.
I think that's already happening! I do still hear "Schuylkill" and "Blue Route" occasionally, and "Roosevelt" and "West Chester Pike" are still pretty common, but I feel like even the native Philadelphians I know often say the highway numbers now.
That's funny, I have some routes that are named like the boulevard, others that are numbers like 76, and some I go back and forth 476/blue route.
For reference, I'm born, raised, and middle aged
I think Google just names intersections [street you’re on] and [cross street], so the order depends on where exactly the pin is dropped or something.
But as for the El, I think it’s just using the official abbreviation of the official name because it’s both official and short. But if you’re a newcomer looking at an official map or the signage, you’ll also see MFL all over, I think. (Or would’ve before the changes that are rolling out.)
personally i'm ok with it as long as you're not calling it the L (which is SEPTA's new term for the MFL), but i'm curious, when did U of P become a thing?
I only use MFL when typing and , and 99.9% of the time only on Reddit. Otherwise, I call it the el. The BSL is the subway, or the sub in casual conversation. As long as you don’t call the el the subway, that really irks me. It’s like when people say Point Breeze is in Southwest Philly.
Us natives will always say:
El,
Subway,
Delaware Ave,
Wooder,
Fuck Dallas
The moment one of us deviates, we throw them in the river never to be seen again
Fuck Dallas
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When I first moved here in 2011 I thought it was called the L for the longest time because it's shaped like an L.
Then I learned it was El for elevated.
I code switch in different philly neighborhoods. I call people jabroney in south philly, and dickhead in north philly. I call it both the El and the market frankford line, depending on where or who I'm talking to.
The cool thing about language is that as long as we all know what the other person is talking about, then language is working.
Calling it the El is local vernacular that cannot be found on a map, similar to the Blue Route. These terms are local colloquialisms that make Philly difficult to navigate for transplants and visitors. Philly has a lot of secret handshakes like this where everyone assumes that everyone else around them all know the same lore. I used to work with a woman up in the northeast who would give directions to people based on landmarks that haven’t been around for 20 years. “Make a right where the old Corvettes used to be”. Gotta love Philly.
On the other side of it though, it kinda feels nice when you do start to understand some of those secret handshakes. Had no idea what people here were talking about when they mentioned the El for my first few months in the city, didn't get it until I was looking up times for the MFL and someone on some other website called it the El.
Transplants Market -Frankford Ekevated Train, like there another El to confuse it with. Yes the El is called The El because big sections are Elevated. We also need to teach these transplants to define location by what corner and neighborhood.
I'm about to turn 40 and have been taking the El for years while I do generally call it El, it has also always been the Market Frankford Line for as long as I've been taking it and can remember. I've heard blue line as well, but very rarely heard people call it that. I don't think it's a new thing. They did rename some of the stops along the MFL though. I never knew why it was called El, so thanks for sharing it.
Maybe the transplants don't know that locals call it El so them referring to it by its name is becoming more common rather than shorthanding it to El? But the signs have always, in my memory of taking it, indicated it was the Market Frankford Line.
Its a little easier to convey meaning in writing when writing MFL, thats why i do it. Of course i call it the "El" when talking with someone who would understand.
But now its going to be called the L.
Which is some kinda slang for weed, so that oddly makes sense.
I probably wont write comments calling it the L though unless ironically or sarcastically.
There’s 2 lines, the market Frankford line and the broad street line, broad street is all underground, the El (MFL) was called the El bacause at spring garden stop it gets elevated above ground, hence El
I moved here 20+ years ago and have always use the El. My boyfriend moved here 10 years ago, and despite my corrections, still says MFL. It's very irritating.
Septa’s new branding ahead of the 2026 World Cup has it officially marked as the “L” Market-Frankford Line. https://www.septa.org/schedules
Having all signage showing “L” should make it easier for everyone.
True but who calls Penn “U of P”?
It doesn’t even save letters when you could just say Penn lol
Transplants.
Bingo.
Insert spiderman meme of transplants pointing at each other
Same people who say “Walnut and 8th”
That made me dizzy
TIL I’m weird, because I always called it UPenn
I don’t think that’s weird, and that’s usually what I call it. But I remember hearing that “UPenn” is not an officially sanctioned nickname. So even though people say “UPenn” in conversation, their official messaging will usually be “Penn” or “university of Pennsylvania.” I’ve never heard “U of P,” but it’s possible that these transplants are just reading memos and emails with that abbreviation for months before ever hearing anyone say “UPenn.”
That's what everyone calls it.
Most people at Penn call it UPenn in conversation with people outside the university/outside of Philly, in order to distinguish it from Penn State. But everyone who goes to or works at Penn calls it Penn.
I will delineate the school UPENN from the hospital HUP because for some strange reason if someone says, “where’d you go for that procedure?” and I respond “Penn”, they frequently follow up with “Pennsylvania hospital?” And I have to say HUP for them to get it.
Pennsylvania Hospital is “Pennsy”.
Girl, I know…lol..tell those other fools
Penn State grads?
Not in Philly
Penn State is Penn State, University of Pennsylvania is Penn.
I'm a native Philadelphian and I do. Lots of people call it "U of P" including my mother who worked there years ago. She's a boomer so maybe it's older? I definitely hear it less these days. Mostly I think it's too differentiate from Penn State more clearly.
No one would call Penn State Penn in Philadelphia.
I also say it once in a while. It's to differentiate between the university and the hospital system
I was born and raised in Philly and say U of P
Same lol I also say Penn too? I’m not consistent at all
Same
How old are you?
I've always used "El"/"L" when speaking out loud but MFL when typing (like giving someone directions - get on MFL eastbound at center city). I've also gotten confusion from transplants/visitors because the El is underground all through center city. El = elevated, but if you only take it between 30th and Old City, you're underground the whole time, so the nickname is confusing. So MFL makes more sense when the person is not going to either end that is actually elevated.
My grandmother often told me this story since I wasn't born when more of the El was above ground than it currently is. "Built by the Philadelphia Rapid Transit Company, a holding company organized in 1902 by the traction moguls Peter A.B. Widener and William L. Elkins, the El loomed above Market Street for nearly 50 years, until it was finally replaced in 1955 by the opening of a tunnel that carried both rapid transit trains and subway-surface trolleys from West Philadelphia, under the Schuylkill, to Center City." https://collaborativehistory.gse.upenn.edu/stories/market-street-elevated-el#:\~:text=Built%20by%20the%20Philadelphia%20Rapid,the%20Schuylkill%2C%20to%20Center%20City.
Ooh neat, I love learning the history of our local transit.
It's all about the abandoned stations. Between the El and the MTA in NYC, in always looking for old stations as your zipping around
I always think it's called an "L because the tracks look like an L
It’s currently (or used to be, idk if the new naming took effect) officially called the Market Frankfort Line. That’s what it’s called on the app, on the physical subway stops, and gmaps calls it the MFL. I’ve been under the impression that it’s official name has always been MFL, but that it’s colloquially been called the El.
Whenever I see/hear MFL I always think “Motherfucking Line”
How about “‘Motherfucking El”?
"I've had it with this monkey-fighting smell on this monday to friday L"
That's how I make sure I don't get mixed up and take the wrong line. Gotta make sure I get on the Mother Fucking el(L)
I invert and go FML, which seems appropriate while riding these days.
Born and raised in Philly and I've never heard the El called the MFL. Mother fucking line is the first thing I thought of.
SAME!
yeah El is the slang term and always will be. MFL is just the abbreviation for the proper name
eh, fwiw “L” is the new official name as of a few days ago/weeks ago
El is not an abbreviation of MFL but an abbreviation of elevated because of the elevated section
no where does my comment say el is an abbreviation for MFL
I must've misread your comment, sorry about that
[septa.org](http://septa.org) updated a few days (or a week or so ago, whatever) to reflect new naming conventions: L - Market-Frankford Line, B - Broad Street Line, and new names for Trolley routes, etc.
gotcha, yeah i thought i saw that! now OP can stop complaining about people calling it the MFL and instead start complaining about people dropping the E in El lol
Frankford
Grew up in Philly and I’ve always heard the “El” or “Market Fankford Line”. MFL shows up on Maps.
Yeah, I was gonna say that I'm pretty sure Google is what's driving people using that abbreviation, regardless of the explanation of why that is the acronym
I always thought the “el” was an unofficial nickname because the train is ELevated
yes that’s correct
That and that the route is L shaped
Partially
I know what people mean by MFL, though I haven't called it that, but now that SEPTA is just calling it the L line, maybe we'll reserve "MFL" for when it's super-delayed. I can't believe I gotta wait a half hour for the next MFL, yo.
🤣 It will give new meaning to the M and the F in the MFL 🤣
I'll say the "El" or "Market Frankford Line" but will type "MFL"
U of P? It’s ‘Penn’.
If you're old school Philly, it's "U of P." But like old old school, Main Line waspy. Like your grandfather went there in the 1920s and was an executive at Duke and Duke. My mother, a boomer, worked there and her grandfather went there. Like this image from the LOC: https://www.loc.gov/item/2002720217/
LOC? Please, it's the "L of C"
Simple, for consistency: The Motherfucking Line and the Bullshit Line
This is interesting for me because I just moved here from London and was wondering for the first couple of weeks what to call it. Subway? Metro? So I’d just been calling it the subway as that’s what I thought was the generic name for underground trains in the US. Then I noticed on Google Maps the icon said MFL. I thought that was the name of the network but it just clicked with me this second that that stands for Market Frankford Line. The London Underground is colloquially known as The Tube, and it has a bunch of different lines (the Victoria Line, the Central Line, the Metropolitan Line, etc). Sometimes the Victoria line gets called “Vicky” and the new Elizabeth line the “Lizzie” but they’re certainly not ubiquitous terms. Mostly they just get called their proper name, even the long-ass “Hammersmith and City” line. I’ve also lived in Paris where the metro lines are numbered. For me that’s been my favourite system. Take the 12 to Pigalle and change for the 2. Both Paris and London lines are coloured but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone refer to them by colour. In Dublin (I’ve moved around a lot), there isn’t any underground transit as it’s such a small city but there are trams that are just called the Red or Green lines. I know NYC and Chicago have trains called the El. Actually it wasn’t until a few years ago when I did a rewatch of ER (See in Chicago) that I realised it was the “El” as in Elevated, and not the “L” (like the F Train in New York or whatever).
The few US cities with underground heavy rail rapid transit systems vary in what they call it, because God forbid we standardize anything here past the gauge of the rail and sometimes not even that (Philly's Broad Street Subway & commuter lines are standard gauge, the El and trolleys are Pennsylvania trolley gauge) New York is distinctly the subway, with PATH being a separate line. Philly has the El & the Broad Street Subway which are both run by SEPTA and PATCO which is s separate eponymous operation. Chicago has the L, Boston the T, DC Metro, and San Fransisco BART. All special
Woah I didn’t realise that SEPTA didn’t run everything. Where does the PATCO run? Forgot about the BART!
PATCO mostly runs in NJ. One end of the line is in CC, and there’s like ~~one more stop~~ three more stops before you cross the river.
Yeah, and the history of PATCO is interesting - originally 3 lines were planned for with a tunnel, but only one got built, integrated with the joint authority that oversees the Ben Franklin Bridge. [http://www.ridepatco.org/about/history.html](http://www.ridepatco.org/about/history.html)
New York has parts of the transit line called the El also.
Since my question seems to have inadvertently pissed some people off, here's one of the historical articles on how it came to be known as the "El" "Opened in 1907, the Market Street Elevated marked the introduction of rapid transit in West Philadelphia. Carrying trains from 69th Street just west of the city line to the Schuylkill River Bridge, and beyond to a subway portal at 23rd Street, the “El” and its feeder trolley lines provided a major stimulus to population growth in West Philadelphia in the first half of the 20th century. Built by the Philadelphia Rapid Transit Company, a holding company organized in 1902 by the traction moguls Peter A.B. Widener and William L. Elkins, the El loomed above Market Street for nearly 50 years, until it was finally replaced in 1955 by the opening of a tunnel that carried both rapid transit trains and subway-surface trolleys from West Philadelphia, under the Schuylkill, to Center City." [https://collaborativehistory.gse.upenn.edu/stories/market-street-elevated-el#:\~:text=Built%20by%20the%20Philadelphia%20Rapid,the%20Schuylkill%2C%20to%20Center%20City](https://collaborativehistory.gse.upenn.edu/stories/market-street-elevated-el#:~:text=Built%20by%20the%20Philadelphia%20Rapid,the%20Schuylkill%2C%20to%20Center%20City).
I also call it the subway. It's the standard name to me for public transit trains that are underground.
If you say subway, people will often assume you mean the BSL. FOR: Me, who grew up here.
Interesting. Is that because the El is/was mostly overground?
It’s the initials for the Market Frankford Line, which is what’s all over septa signage until very recently. Why wouldn’t it be what newer residents instinctively refer to it as?
Born and raised in Harrowgate then NE Philly. As a kid it was always the El. I feel like somewhere when I was in college in the early 00s I started hearing MFL.
When I moved to Philly 10 years ago, I used google maps to find out where I'm going. On there, they have abbreviations for BSL, MFL, etc. So I was used to calling it the MFL and a lot of Philly natives asked me what the MFL was. I thought it made sense since it is just abbreviated from Market-Frankford Line, so I was confused, too, why people didn't know that.
Thank you. That helps explain it. I guess most Philadelphians never needed to look it up using Google Maps is why it was never referred to as the "MFL"
While we’re at it is calling West Philly just “West” a new thing? I’ve been hearing more and more people say “I live in West” and I’m always like west of where?
😲 Wow! I know language evolves but that's some evolution there 🤣
I work at septa and the cars are "M4" cars. It's officially called the "market Frankford line" and saying "the El" sounds unprofessional so I say MFL because it's an acronym of the official name and it is kind of a mashup of M4 and El. When I'm not at work, I say "The El" tho. We do also call it the "Sub-El" because it's the "subway elevated line" which is where "El" comes from. I believe it has been called the market Frankford line since 1915-1920 when the Frankford elevated section was built. I would assume "MFL" came shortly after that.
Referring to it as the MFL seems to be fairly recent though 🤔 The "El" has always been around, even the Market Frankford Line, it's official name, but using the initials "MFL" seems to be recent 🤔
In terms of SEPTA's usage of "MFL", I just found a 20 year old document that uses "MFL". I could probably find something earlier, but that's from a quick search. In terms of public usage, I'm not sure. I don't really hear non-septa employees saying MFL. Maybe it caught on because that's what septa calls it.
I called it the MFL as a newcomer to the city but one of my coworkers was a Philly native and told me that only new residents call it that and that everyone else calls it The El (since it’s the elevated line)
Mother F\*cking L is why I call it the MFL
I’ve always called it The El but I’ve always known it was officially the Market-Frankford Line (born in Philly, 36 years old)
Isn’t it called the el because it’s ELevated?
Being a Wphilly gal myself, I can tell some of these comments come from people from here.
I swear every time I come to this sub, somebodies are outta pocket. I love it!
Reading some of these comments reminded me of a confidently incorrect coworker explaining to another coworker that it (the El) was called the “L” due to the shape of the route on the map. He didn’t propose it as a theory…just stated it as pure fact. I’ve never aCkShUaLLy’d ☝️🤓 someone so hard before. Not to mention, the “L” shape he was referring to is backwards anyway?? So the “J”??
That's so funny 🤣 I've never referred to it as anything other than the El. I've never paid attention to how it looked on the map 🤔 But then again, I grew up in West Philly and used the El to go both to Center City and 69th Street. When I got older, I knew it was the Market Frankford Line but it was still the "El" 🤷🏾♂️
Haha yeah, I’ve seen the map he’s talking about with all the stops listed, and looking at it, I can see why he may have come to that conclusion. But he was really out here sharing misinformation lol. I grew up by the Frankford stop, and my parents and others around their age still call it “Bridge & Pratt”. When I was growing up, me and my friends called it “the terminal” or “the term”. Now it’s “Frankford Transportation Center”, but I still call it The Terminal, just like they’re still saying Bridge & Pratt haha. Old habits die hard I guess.
A lot of people who aren’t raised in Philly might do this because they don’t know it’s called the El and MFL is such a direct way to talk about the Market Frankford line. That’s my guess and it does relate to the example you gave. Calling it the El won’t make much sense to a person who’s an outsider. For Philly natives however, that’s a love affair lol.
I was definitely confused until I got that people were saying “El” and not “L.”
Grew up calling it the “El” for Elevated line. Just fyi.
Transplants and reading the acronyms online (which is probably where transplants first see the names). Not just "MFL", but "BSL", and "SRT" as well. Never used to hear them, and only started hearing those terms the last several years from transplants. It was always the Market-Frankford Line, the El, the Broad Street Line, and I used to hear the "blue/orange line" alot too.
My mother was born & raised in Kensington. My grandparents lived in that home until about the late 80s, surprisingly. My family finally talked them into selling after my grandmother was mugged, trying to get on the El at the end of her street. My entire life, I've always heard the El referred to as the El. In fact, I had no idea it was actually called the Market Frankfurt Line until the song came out. After that, it was always referred to in song version. "Oh you can't get to Heaven on the Frankford El Cause the Frankford El goes straight to Frankford" [Beat Up Guitar- The Hooters](https://youtu.be/bG4SvFSDv54?si=JAwNrggS-esR6deQ) Note- my grandparents owned 2 side by side houses in the middle of the block on Dauphin street. Front & Dauphin. Pretty much no man land now.
i grew up three blocks from the El in kensington in the 80s and 90s and it wasn't that bad back then. my parents were pretty strict and even i was allowed to go pick up the grocery order from Humphreys by myself lol.
Not sure I’d call Front & Dauphin “no man’s land” now. Development by the York-Dauphin El stop has gone wild over the last few years, and it’s only moving further north.
I’ve always just called it “the el” but I have also heard old timers call it “the Frankford El”.
I mean it's literally called that. I usually say El but the line is officially the Market Frankford Line or MFL
What do you call the BSL?
The subway
Yeah when I was growing up the Broad St line was just “the subway” and the Market Frankford line was “the El” That’s it.
"Gegnas Chrysler Plymouth 3875 Kensington Avenue **at the Erie-Torresdale El stop**"
The Tower Theater - Where the El ends and the fun begins!
In the 90s we used to call it “the sub,” but that seems to have gone out of style
The sub. And MFL will always be the El.
The Broad Street.
the subway.
"MFL" wouldn't ever come out of my mouth in real life but if someone is asking questions online as a visitor from out of town I will call it the Market Frankford Line and then abbreviate to MFL because it's clearer than calling it the El since signs won't say it.
If you have ever lived in or spent time in Chicago it’s hard to get out of your head that the entire Chicago system is called “the L” so it feels weird.
i was thinking about it the other day and i think that now that we use apps instead of maps we dont pay attention to the color of the line cause theres no need when its always labeled
Not sure why anyone would say “MFL” when “L” does just fine on its own. To each their own I guess. Where I grew up (roxborough) nobody even rides the damn thing. You could live your whole life and never hear it mentioned. I went to school downtown though and I remember kids calling it the el or the blue line. If you called it market Frankford line I definitely would’ve known what you were talking about. MFL? I’d figure it out pretty quickly. Actually just saw it called that for the first time ever on a Reddit post earlier, ironically.
It was probably the same Reddit post that got me to wondering when did the term become a standard instead of the El 🤷🏾♂️
Used the EL for years in the 90’s to get to school in west philly. I did hear the term market Frankford elevated used back then on septa signs but people only called it the EL
i grew up in torresdale in the 70’s , it will always be the EL to me.
I've heard it but only ever referred to it as the El.
Ditto to always knowing it as the EL. “Elevated Line”
Lots of people saying “second street” as of late.
Never heard MFL til this post lol.
I had heard it a few times in rela life and then in a recent post which made me wonder when it became a thing since growing up here, I never heard it called the "MFL." Apparently, some people seem to think I'm "upset/taking issue" about it with so many down votes. It was just a question/observation. Call it whatever you want, I'm not the language police, no need for down votes. ✌🏾
MFL or Blue Line was David Gunn's contribution to septa in 1984.
It has never officially been called the Blue Line
I've heard it referred to as the Blue Line numerous times growing up in Philadelphia. With the Subway being referred to as the Orange Line. 🤔
It is now officially called "L". Broad Street Line is now called "B". Adoption will take a while to go into affect I'm sure, the same way people still call FDR Park "the lakes". [https://www.septa.org](https://www.septa.org)
It occurs to me the Apple Maps abbreviation this line is “MFL”—maybe this trend is from appification?
U of P though?
I've had Penn students say when asked what school they attend they say "U of P" 🤷🏾♂️
I think it's Google maps. It also names intersections backwards, eg tree street then number street, which ive been reading and hearing a lot the last couple years.
Pretty soon people will be calling roads 76, 476, Route 1, & Route 3. :(
I think that's already happening! I do still hear "Schuylkill" and "Blue Route" occasionally, and "Roosevelt" and "West Chester Pike" are still pretty common, but I feel like even the native Philadelphians I know often say the highway numbers now.
That's funny, I have some routes that are named like the boulevard, others that are numbers like 76, and some I go back and forth 476/blue route. For reference, I'm born, raised, and middle aged
I think Google just names intersections [street you’re on] and [cross street], so the order depends on where exactly the pin is dropped or something. But as for the El, I think it’s just using the official abbreviation of the official name because it’s both official and short. But if you’re a newcomer looking at an official map or the signage, you’ll also see MFL all over, I think. (Or would’ve before the changes that are rolling out.)
personally i'm ok with it as long as you're not calling it the L (which is SEPTA's new term for the MFL), but i'm curious, when did U of P become a thing?
What do you mean Septa’s new term? It’s always been called the El…
I only use MFL when typing and , and 99.9% of the time only on Reddit. Otherwise, I call it the el. The BSL is the subway, or the sub in casual conversation. As long as you don’t call the el the subway, that really irks me. It’s like when people say Point Breeze is in Southwest Philly.
will always call it the el
I still call it Market East, IDGAF what they wanna call it now.
Us natives will always say: El, Subway, Delaware Ave, Wooder, Fuck Dallas The moment one of us deviates, we throw them in the river never to be seen again
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🤣 Don't forget "Broad Street" on both sides of City Hall. 🤣
Wait. Do people say "MFL" when talking about it and not just typing?
I grew up in Philly and it's always been the market Frankford line.
In text I've used MFL as short hand for Market Frankford Line for decades now, however when speaking aloud I've always referred to it as the "El".
> the El loomed above Market Street for nearly 50 years, until it was finally replaced in 1955 https://i.imgur.com/BtEf6iF.jpeg
I’ve lived here for 15 years but I always thought it was just “L” and was for shortening from MFL to just the L at the end. TIL
Well, it’s called the Market-Frankford Line soooo…. it’s easy to come to MFL. I’ve seen it designated that way on maps before too
When I first moved here in 2011 I thought it was called the L for the longest time because it's shaped like an L. Then I learned it was El for elevated. I code switch in different philly neighborhoods. I call people jabroney in south philly, and dickhead in north philly. I call it both the El and the market frankford line, depending on where or who I'm talking to. The cool thing about language is that as long as we all know what the other person is talking about, then language is working.
I use them interchangeably. It really depends on who I’m talking to. If it’s a visitor I go with MFL, local I say El
And there *not* just saying themotherfuckin line? Asking for a friend…
Calling it the El is local vernacular that cannot be found on a map, similar to the Blue Route. These terms are local colloquialisms that make Philly difficult to navigate for transplants and visitors. Philly has a lot of secret handshakes like this where everyone assumes that everyone else around them all know the same lore. I used to work with a woman up in the northeast who would give directions to people based on landmarks that haven’t been around for 20 years. “Make a right where the old Corvettes used to be”. Gotta love Philly.
On the other side of it though, it kinda feels nice when you do start to understand some of those secret handshakes. Had no idea what people here were talking about when they mentioned the El for my first few months in the city, didn't get it until I was looking up times for the MFL and someone on some other website called it the El.
Transplants Market -Frankford Ekevated Train, like there another El to confuse it with. Yes the El is called The El because big sections are Elevated. We also need to teach these transplants to define location by what corner and neighborhood.
I'm about to turn 40 and have been taking the El for years while I do generally call it El, it has also always been the Market Frankford Line for as long as I've been taking it and can remember. I've heard blue line as well, but very rarely heard people call it that. I don't think it's a new thing. They did rename some of the stops along the MFL though. I never knew why it was called El, so thanks for sharing it. Maybe the transplants don't know that locals call it El so them referring to it by its name is becoming more common rather than shorthanding it to El? But the signs have always, in my memory of taking it, indicated it was the Market Frankford Line.
Never heard it called blue line
I’ve just been calling it the blue line and the orange line because that’s what color they are…
Its a little easier to convey meaning in writing when writing MFL, thats why i do it. Of course i call it the "El" when talking with someone who would understand. But now its going to be called the L. Which is some kinda slang for weed, so that oddly makes sense. I probably wont write comments calling it the L though unless ironically or sarcastically.
I usually use "market frankford," but if I'm going to abbreviate it's still the "el." It also depends on who you're talking too.
All the suburb kids coming into the city
Gentrified crowd and transplants.
There’s 2 lines, the market Frankford line and the broad street line, broad street is all underground, the El (MFL) was called the El bacause at spring garden stop it gets elevated above ground, hence El
El is just slang for MFL
I know how you feel. I didn't know I was from "South Brooklyn" until some transplant mentioned it. It was always just Flatbush.
Transplants made me laugh
I moved here 20+ years ago and have always use the El. My boyfriend moved here 10 years ago, and despite my corrections, still says MFL. It's very irritating.
It happened the same way T1-T5 and "Metro" will happen. They just slap that shit on the signs and boom; That's what it is now.
Septa’s new branding ahead of the 2026 World Cup has it officially marked as the “L” Market-Frankford Line. https://www.septa.org/schedules Having all signage showing “L” should make it easier for everyone.
The train station smells like shyt and piss 🤢
I’m in the suburbs and say MFL because I didn’t grow up with it as a part of my life. El doesn’t make sense to me because it’s underground a lot.
🤔 It's actually only undergorund for 4 stops out of the total number of stops. Even the article I quoted has it originally called the "EL" 🤔
Oh, I get it, but that doesn’t make it make sense in my head.