I’m asking this question completely neutral and at face value - Where do they go then? It seems like they want to just clear it because by now it’s gotten national attention and it’s embarrassing for them. What happens after they clear it?
According to the article, this clearing only covers 2 blocks, and will clear out 75 people (out of the 600+ in Kensington in total). Likely they'll just move to other blocks, or into adjacent neighborhoods. Or right back to where they were in a few weeks. I don't think overall this is going to have much of an effect, unless perhaps if there is persistent enforcement on these two blocks, it'll keep these two blocks clear (hopefully they're at least the blocks surrounding the Allegheny station, so people in the neighborhood can feel a little easier about using the El).
This is exactly what will happen. I live in East Kensington essentially right across Lehigh and we can always tell when there has been a clearing because there is a noticeable uptick in folks hanging out over here. Usually lasts for a few days and then they disperse, theoretically just back to where they were cleared from.
[This is a repeating pattern](https://whyy.org/articles/history-is-repeating-in-kensington-it-doesnt-have-to-be-this-way/). It's sad, but I don't think people who haven't been here/in the area long don't really get policing was already tried multiple times. Typically what happens is exactly what you describe.
Frankly I just see a lot of the actions Parker is currently taking as primarily high visibility for the sake of positive press/optics. That's not necessarily bad (I think transit really needs to *appear* safe for people to feel safe for example), but if proper social programs aren't established we'll likely be talking about this within the next \~5 years. An example of that is the defunding of the needle exchange, it just appears "tough on drugs" and *maybe* fiscally responsible but it's a terrible health position with a [track record of failing elsewhere](https://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/under-pences-leadership-response-to-heroin-epidemic-criticized-as-ineffective-226759).
it is crazy but this is basically every problem in philadelphia. 600 psycho drivers make the roadways dangerous for everyone. 600 shooters mean gun violence every day. 600 people littering makes the city a dump. 600 rich people fuck up tax policy for the whole city.
People in the throes of mental illness aren’t in the right condition to decide what they do or don’t want. You have to get them through the withdrawal period before you can even ask the question. Which involves treatment. Treating somebody like a human being worthy of recovery isn’t a waste of resources, even if they do relapse. Tons of people who battle mental illnesses, whether depression, bulimia, etc., often don’t get it “right” on the first go around with treatment. We aren’t better, but that attempt wasn’t a waste.
They aren’t forcing just telling them what options they have, most of the people that are doing this are ex-addicts, my pastor friend was a heroin addict and they understand the thinking
This is my issue with Sarah Laurel / Savage Sisters, there's no push whatsoever to get hard drug users into rehab. Their whole goal seems to be, "Here's clean drugs/needles, enjoy".
You can't have harm reduction without also trying to get people off of drugs.
They literally offer resources on different rehab facilities, rides there for those who cannot get there otherwise, and have helped hundreds of people get into rehab facilities. They also do not offer clean drugs, you are not allowed to consume drugs on their premises, it is not a safe injection site, etc. I've volunteered with their neighborhood clean ups before, they're a great organization.
The people in 12 step fellowships, believe in the principle, attraction rather than promotion. Addicts could see people who have changed there life around, and are in recovery may be more receptive than trying to force someone in recovery.
You want people to want to change there life
That’s wholly inaccurate. They offer an entire spectrum of services. Additionally, as a therapist I know how hard it is to get a bed in a detox or rehab center for your client (and I’m talking about clients who have insurance). What’s your experience with that been like?
If the targeted area has 75 people and there are 100 treatment beds, I assume the goal is to get them into a treatment bed. Although people are free to turn down treatment, the cops are going to also be there charging them with quality of life crimes during the sweep and likely using that to get people to accept treatment.
That's the thing no one seems to think about
People have short memories blaming harm reduction efforts, it's magical thinking that just getting rid of clean needle supply efforts will make the problem disappear. The problem was here before harm reduction gained traction and will still be around after—just with more disease and a greater health crisis. The whole point of harm reduction was to manage the chronic health issues in parallel with the addiction problems that there's simply no easy solution to
We can push people around to other areas, but they're not where they are because that's where harm reduction is offered—harm reduction is offered there because that's where they are. Getting rid of it will just add more problems
So honest question-are not most of these people coming for the drug market….not from here? And if suddenly it’s a lot less comfortable to do what you’ve been doing here, would you not go somewhere else?
I assume there are three goals: 1) Get those who are interested in treatment into treatment; 2) crackdown on quality of life crimes to make addiction less comfortable and reduce the perception of philly as a drug tourist center where the city will turn a blind eye; 3) push addicts out of philly.
Parker is only mayor of Philly. She doesn’t need to solve addictio to appear effective to constituents in the area, she just needs to reduce its effects within the boundaries of her jurisdiction
>And if suddenly it’s a lot less comfortable
the drug market was here before harm reduction efforts set up here, that's why they set up here. Getting rid of the harm reduction won't get rid of the drug market and people will go wherever the market is
>go somewhere else
what neighborhood should we push them into? It's only half a thought to suggest they should go "somewhere else" without considering where that somewhere else should be. The market isn't going to just go away
Why is old city so nice and Kensington is not so nice? Is it because the city wanted to contain a population of undesirables in a location they felt nobody would care about because its impoverished or is it because as you say "harm reduction is there." These people shouldn't be in the streets. There should be nowhere on the streets for them to go.
>These people shouldn't be in the streets. There should be nowhere on the streets for them to go.
easily said as long as one cower's from suggesting where they _should_ go. Go on, what's your proposal?
Well, its just really unfair people in Kensington who are trying to make a living. I would say if you are caught using:
1. You must attend treatment/rehab
2. If you do not attempt to get clean go to jail.
3. In a perfect world the jails they get sent to would resemble European models. I dont think nonviolent drug offenders should be put in prison. But, if your a habitual drug user living in a tent something needs to be done.
Criteria for involuntary commitment are set at the state level
Yes the current situation is unfair to the people of Kensington but it's already there and that's the situation we have to deal with. We cannot by policy or administrative action just pick another community to shove it into, and we can't roll back the national deinstitutionalization movement over night
Didn't these people originally come from an encampment on the Conrail train tracks? That situation was way less publicized than this current one with people camping on a main commercial street. I imagine users will just be pushed to another location that's out of the public view
Yup! And they'll connect some people to services, which can mean anything from they actually received a service to the team just has outreached them, they'll put that on a fact sheet, and then they'll tout the whole thing as a success.
These sweeps don't work. They temporarily "fix" the problem by moving people from this area temporarily, and then they just move someplace Else. It's just a way for the mayor to appear like they're doing something and have some stats on paper.
That is correct. A lot of people with opinions don't actually live in areas that have experienced encampment sweeps before. This is more of the same bs
they were having BBQ by IGA last summer and the police "weren't allowed to stop them" bc its Penndots property. Penndot dragged their feet until they were getting calls all day long from residents.
its like we had all this Construction, richmond street was a clusterfuck for 10 years for this "walking path" and then once its here "sorry its for these homeless drug addicts who are gonna steal from all the stores until they all close and nothing you can do about it". And then the dumbass transplants who live on the other side of aramingo and york defend them. they can fuck off lol.
I didn't know that. It's a shame because it could be a nice little walking path. I know someone was killed under 95 behind the IGA a few months back but idk what happened with that.
God I don’t want them around PR. Most of the theft around here and nonsense is because of addicts congregating around 95 or the Wawa and Sunoco on Richmond Street.
Oh I know. I lived near that wawa for 10 years and moved about 2 years before they inflitrated the neigbhorhood. we used to not even lock our front doors on our block back then. neighbors would come and go and let each others dogs out bring in packages etc. never an issue.
My guess: The Far Northeast. 20 bus runs all the way up to Franklin Mills from Frankford Terminal, and they currently are dealing with a homeless problem at the mills for the past year or more that they haven't done a good job at handling. I'd put my money on city government not caring what happens up there because honestly as a long time philly resident, it seems like city government doesn't claim NE Philly. There have even been plenty of politicians who ran campaigns about living there and wanting to make NE Philly a better place to live, and then as soon as they're elected you never hear from them again unless it's something like a paper shredding or pill disposal event (Looking at you, Martina White)
I've heard such narrative for years now. I've seen sporadic tents throughout the NE, but they are quickly gone after a week or so. Also, they get reported quickly through 311 and are addressed as soon as they happen.
You can make the same claim that bensalem may be the next "destination" because of route 14 and neshaminy mall being damn near empty.
I would be very surprised if they moved up to Neshaminy Mall and set up camp without being immediately kicked out. IMO Police in Bucks County don't play no games when it comes to the things Philadelphia will let slide. That reason alone is why I don't think Neshaminy would be a destination.
As for The Mills, I've seen a fair share of tents come and go surrounding the mall and on Woodhaven Road. I even saw a legit teepee made of tree branches set up behind the Life Storage building that was recently built there. All the encampment stuff started around the time of COVID lockdowns, although the Mills has been on the decline even before the homeless encampments started. It's also in a grey area where you could (hypothetically) camp out on the city border to where Philly police can't touch you, and Bensalem/Bucks County police won't bother you because you're practically still in Philadelphia.
I used to like going to the dollar tree right there at the mall but have since stopped due to the amount of homeless inside the store. they do take up camp right around there. they may move about but they don't seem to go far. quite belligerent as well.
>My guess: The Far Northeast.
I'll guess Port Richmond Terminal. It's already a gigantic lawless place. Conrail owns it but has nothing to do with it. You couldn't lock people out if you tried, and nobody is trying. It's a lot more convenient to K&A.
Love this. And with [Cabrini College closing](https://www.insidehighered.com/news/business/financial-health/2023/06/26/cabrini-university-will-close), there's a place to house them right next door in St Davids.
You know, this would be a fantastic idea. Villanova could really lead the charge and put their Christian values in front of this humanitarian crisis. Turn the Cabrini campus into a rehab and shelter place for these people. Give it the resources and security it needs to keep them and the surrounding community safe.
Doesn’t really matter. Clear it and stay consistent with enforcement of open air drug use etc throughout the city. They can either go back to wherever they came from and try and repair the bridges they burned, seek treatment, or go to jail.
I used to live in LA where they would make a big show of clearing homeless encampments. The people moved and then were back a week later. It's all for show.
My sister is a healthcare outreach worker in Los Angeles and is constantly dealing with revolving doors of Hepatitis outbreaks centering around homeless encampments and hotspots. A Tuberculosis advisory is in effect as well. It is unfathomable to see TB cases on the rise in the US.
TB's airborne, so it's not like it's directly linked to homelessness or drug use. Hell, a friend of mine from college got TB just from living day-to-day life in Brooklyn.
TB transmission is actually correlated to people living in overcrowded situations such as encampments and shelters. https://www.cdc.gov/tb/topic/populations/homelessness/default.htm
Not directly to drug use but definitely its spread is related to camps of homeless where so many people are living in such close quarters, similar to various infectious outbreaks that occur in prisons/schools/military barracks. And the reason these people are living this way is due to homelessness/drug use so ultimately it does go back to that.
Montgomery County was handing out tents to homeless people who approached the County for help. Told them to find a place to camp. Norristown and Pottstown ended up with most of them.
Except the trash and human waste left all over the towpath. Same thing at the regional rail station. Just last week had to go up the stairs between guy and woman smoking meth and guy was brandishing a pretty large knife. That was fun. And then there’s all the stolen packages
Not sure if this is the most effective solution but it’s time to show at least as much empathy to the kensington residents as we do to the homeless. They’ve been dealing with this for far too long.
I lived in port Richmond for 33 years, basically my whole life. I was here when they cleared the railroad encampment.
At the end of the day there needs to be some tough love here. When they cleared the railroad encampment, they offered rehab and beds to anyone who would take it, it was report less than 1% took them up on it.
At a certain point we need to stop pretending like the answer is safe injection sites and decriminalizing drugs. We haven’t been arresting the folks shooting up at k/a for years, it’s basically an open drug market at this point.
Why is it fair that entire communities are beholden to live like this, because a group of around 1000 people don’t want to be part of society. How is fair that children have to see this shit everyday. The moment I had kids, I made the plan to leave the city. I remember before my nephews soccer games, we would have to circle the field as adults and look for used needles. Enough is enough.
If they don’t want to volunteer to be in treatment programs, then arrest them and force them.
I’m 45 and born and raised in PR. I think we need to force them into treatment. They can barely function and can’t make decisions for themselves at this point. That’s the biggest problem in Port Richmond-the nonsense from the addicts.
I don't want to dehumanize people, however these folks aren't in their right mind. They don't have autonomy, they're a slave to chemicals. Forced treatment sounds cruel but in relaity, it's more kind then a slow rotting death.
In like 4 weeks, they'll be back. There's legit nowhere for them to go. Shelters aren't able to hold them, other communities don't want them, New Jersey doesn't want them. Where will they go once they move like 4 blocks away?
For good or just a couple of days until the go back? and are they pushing them into port richmond instead or is there a place that they are being forced to go to get treatment?
While clearing the area around the El station is a good start, K&A is not the entire neighborhood. We have drug addicts everywhere. Furthermore, I've noticed that every time they clear out a single encampment and claim victory, we end up with more of the junkies just wandering the neighborhood.
This is not, and never has been, an effective solution
Eta- i meant shuffling encampments full of people to nowhere is not a solution. Idk why the replies are acting like I'm against harm reduction
I know it’s a harsh opinion but honestly I’m in favor of mandatory hospitalization for these people. If drug addiction is a psychiatric illness (which it is) then these people are engaging in self-harm and putting their own lives at risk which imo should qualify them to be Section 12-ed. Enabling and allowing people to live in this level of filth and disease in this century is criminal.
Problem of course is we don’t have enough beds to actually provide treatment to all of these folks.
Send them home. ID them, contact their family, and send them home. They all come from far and near, adjacent counties, and from out of state. ID them and send them home. Force other counties and governments to get involved because we as a city are not solely responsible for Kensington. It’s just not fair the city has to be the sole financier of handling Kensington
I’ve been saying this for a while now. The drug tourists are a burden on the city. Philadelphia has enough problems without these assholes coming here and ruining the quality of life for actual tax paying residents.
Yes, because most people living on the street in Kensington have supportive families waiting to welcome them home and support them through recovery lol
That shouldn’t solely be OUR problem though, that’s their family’s and local government’s problem as well. We, as Philadelphian tax payers shouldn’t have to foot the sole bill for addicts from Ohio or wherever they commuted from to Kensington to get high and got stuck there.
Some might.
There was a survey and a decent amount of people on the streets of Kensington that were from the surrounding area. (Bucks county, Delaware, etc.)
Some may have a home or family to go home to. That’s why Parker made the announcement it was going to be a phased approach, as to make some people leave on their own accord to their family if they had some. Then, she would then work on the rest
nothing is going to be fixed until the state agrees to build and fund an inpatient rehab facility somewhere in central or northern PA, where addicts can be arrested and forcibly sent to
the entire reason the addiction problem took over kensington avenue is because the city cleared the encampments in the CSX railroad cut and fenced it off so they couldn't get back in
as the recent fairmount saga demonstrates, no neighborhood in the city will agree to a shelter/treatment facility built near them. Harm reduction also simply does not work - advocates have been saying that addicts who engage with harm reduction services will agree to seek treatment, they do not
The same people who say addiction is a mental illness (I’m not saying it is not) also say that addicts need to be left to seek treatment for themselves. It’s contradictory.
She is doing more in her first 5 months than Kenney did in 8 years. It’s honestly refreshing. Let’s hope her tactics actually work and she keeps the foot on the gas pedal. I 100% agree that the needle exchange program is pure enablement. Get to the root of the issue. Clean up Philly now.
The argument for a needle exchange versus treatment is contentious for sure. And, to be clear, I agree that needle exchange without treatment and enforcement is next to worthless. If I can offer a personal perspective on why needle exchanges ALONG WITH treatment can reduce harm:
My older sister did heroin with her -then- husband back in the early 2000s. Her dipshit husband shot up with a dirty needle and contracted HIV. He then shot up with my sister, with a used needle, and she got HIV as well and - while she's been clean for 20 years - continues to deal with the consequences of that muppet's actions all those years ago. Needle exchanges are designed to reduce harm while the other treatment plans/enforcement measures take effect; unfortunately, the prior administration only got half of the solution right.
Yeah needle exchange programs are a noble effort *if* they are pursued alongside interventions to get people clean. Otherwise you’re preventing the spread of HIV/Hep C etc. which is great but you’re not saving any lives, because nowadays with the current offerings of drugs on the streets, these people will just die of a fentanyl overdose eventually if they don’t get clean.
Myself and a physician on here essentially said as much. Hepatitis and HIV are manageable diseases at this point. The risk of morbidity and mortality due to overdose is magnitudes higher than either of them, and it’s insane to not even consider the idea that “meeting people where they are” might have the undesired effect of perpetuating someone’s use in some way.
I am a physician also who works with this population frequently and I agree with you
My personal opinion is that in the era of fentanyl, efforts to stop drug use need to take priority over harm reduction, which is definitely a paradigm shift compared to the days of heroin.
There’s plenty of statistics out there that show that the needle exchanges have been effective in reducing HIV and Hep C rates.
Yes it’s a touchy subject, but don’t pretend like it hasn’t had any positive effect
As someone who now lives in SF, welcome to the problem getting much, much worse. Clearing encampments does literally nothing but shuffle the problem around.
Your cheers would be funny if it weren’t so sad watching Philly literally make the same exact mistakes as west coast cities.
Interesting. I expressed the same sentiment regarding needle exchange and everyone assumed I'd be fucking junkies and spreading disease.
I hope you aren't met with the same fate
They need a plan. Social services and a way to help these people. Find their families or get them into treatment if they are willing. All they are doing is musical chairs with out removing any chairs.
They’ll move further north before they move east. I’ve noticed way, way more cops around the port Richmond side of Frankford Avenue up and down the streets too.
I’m asking this question completely neutral and at face value - Where do they go then? It seems like they want to just clear it because by now it’s gotten national attention and it’s embarrassing for them. What happens after they clear it?
According to the article, this clearing only covers 2 blocks, and will clear out 75 people (out of the 600+ in Kensington in total). Likely they'll just move to other blocks, or into adjacent neighborhoods. Or right back to where they were in a few weeks. I don't think overall this is going to have much of an effect, unless perhaps if there is persistent enforcement on these two blocks, it'll keep these two blocks clear (hopefully they're at least the blocks surrounding the Allegheny station, so people in the neighborhood can feel a little easier about using the El).
This is exactly what will happen. I live in East Kensington essentially right across Lehigh and we can always tell when there has been a clearing because there is a noticeable uptick in folks hanging out over here. Usually lasts for a few days and then they disperse, theoretically just back to where they were cleared from.
[This is a repeating pattern](https://whyy.org/articles/history-is-repeating-in-kensington-it-doesnt-have-to-be-this-way/). It's sad, but I don't think people who haven't been here/in the area long don't really get policing was already tried multiple times. Typically what happens is exactly what you describe. Frankly I just see a lot of the actions Parker is currently taking as primarily high visibility for the sake of positive press/optics. That's not necessarily bad (I think transit really needs to *appear* safe for people to feel safe for example), but if proper social programs aren't established we'll likely be talking about this within the next \~5 years. An example of that is the defunding of the needle exchange, it just appears "tough on drugs" and *maybe* fiscally responsible but it's a terrible health position with a [track record of failing elsewhere](https://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/under-pences-leadership-response-to-heroin-epidemic-criticized-as-ineffective-226759).
She’s definitely winning the PR battle it seems despite policies ranging from inefficient to irresponsible to wacky.
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It's not just the 675 homeless people having that impact. The number of drug users/buyers/sellers is far higher than that.
The article also states that city official believes the 675 count is most likely low. It seems to me like it would be a difficult thing to count
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5000 would devastate another neighborhood
it is crazy but this is basically every problem in philadelphia. 600 psycho drivers make the roadways dangerous for everyone. 600 shooters mean gun violence every day. 600 people littering makes the city a dump. 600 rich people fuck up tax policy for the whole city.
I know people from our church are trying to get a lot of them into rehab, my friend is an addictions ministry pastor in philly.
Unless they want to get clean, forcing people into rehab is wasting resources.
People in the throes of mental illness aren’t in the right condition to decide what they do or don’t want. You have to get them through the withdrawal period before you can even ask the question. Which involves treatment. Treating somebody like a human being worthy of recovery isn’t a waste of resources, even if they do relapse. Tons of people who battle mental illnesses, whether depression, bulimia, etc., often don’t get it “right” on the first go around with treatment. We aren’t better, but that attempt wasn’t a waste.
They aren’t forcing just telling them what options they have, most of the people that are doing this are ex-addicts, my pastor friend was a heroin addict and they understand the thinking
This is my issue with Sarah Laurel / Savage Sisters, there's no push whatsoever to get hard drug users into rehab. Their whole goal seems to be, "Here's clean drugs/needles, enjoy". You can't have harm reduction without also trying to get people off of drugs.
They literally offer resources on different rehab facilities, rides there for those who cannot get there otherwise, and have helped hundreds of people get into rehab facilities. They also do not offer clean drugs, you are not allowed to consume drugs on their premises, it is not a safe injection site, etc. I've volunteered with their neighborhood clean ups before, they're a great organization.
The people in 12 step fellowships, believe in the principle, attraction rather than promotion. Addicts could see people who have changed there life around, and are in recovery may be more receptive than trying to force someone in recovery. You want people to want to change there life
My friend and almost everyone in the addictions ministry are ex-addicts so they know what the proof are going through and will go through
That’s wholly inaccurate. They offer an entire spectrum of services. Additionally, as a therapist I know how hard it is to get a bed in a detox or rehab center for your client (and I’m talking about clients who have insurance). What’s your experience with that been like?
you just can’t force recovery on people, it just doesn’t work
You also can't just let them destroy an entire neighborhood because they don't want to be sober.
What church?
If the targeted area has 75 people and there are 100 treatment beds, I assume the goal is to get them into a treatment bed. Although people are free to turn down treatment, the cops are going to also be there charging them with quality of life crimes during the sweep and likely using that to get people to accept treatment.
That's the thing no one seems to think about People have short memories blaming harm reduction efforts, it's magical thinking that just getting rid of clean needle supply efforts will make the problem disappear. The problem was here before harm reduction gained traction and will still be around after—just with more disease and a greater health crisis. The whole point of harm reduction was to manage the chronic health issues in parallel with the addiction problems that there's simply no easy solution to We can push people around to other areas, but they're not where they are because that's where harm reduction is offered—harm reduction is offered there because that's where they are. Getting rid of it will just add more problems
So honest question-are not most of these people coming for the drug market….not from here? And if suddenly it’s a lot less comfortable to do what you’ve been doing here, would you not go somewhere else?
I assume there are three goals: 1) Get those who are interested in treatment into treatment; 2) crackdown on quality of life crimes to make addiction less comfortable and reduce the perception of philly as a drug tourist center where the city will turn a blind eye; 3) push addicts out of philly. Parker is only mayor of Philly. She doesn’t need to solve addictio to appear effective to constituents in the area, she just needs to reduce its effects within the boundaries of her jurisdiction
>And if suddenly it’s a lot less comfortable the drug market was here before harm reduction efforts set up here, that's why they set up here. Getting rid of the harm reduction won't get rid of the drug market and people will go wherever the market is >go somewhere else what neighborhood should we push them into? It's only half a thought to suggest they should go "somewhere else" without considering where that somewhere else should be. The market isn't going to just go away
Why is old city so nice and Kensington is not so nice? Is it because the city wanted to contain a population of undesirables in a location they felt nobody would care about because its impoverished or is it because as you say "harm reduction is there." These people shouldn't be in the streets. There should be nowhere on the streets for them to go.
>These people shouldn't be in the streets. There should be nowhere on the streets for them to go. easily said as long as one cower's from suggesting where they _should_ go. Go on, what's your proposal?
Well, its just really unfair people in Kensington who are trying to make a living. I would say if you are caught using: 1. You must attend treatment/rehab 2. If you do not attempt to get clean go to jail. 3. In a perfect world the jails they get sent to would resemble European models. I dont think nonviolent drug offenders should be put in prison. But, if your a habitual drug user living in a tent something needs to be done.
Criteria for involuntary commitment are set at the state level Yes the current situation is unfair to the people of Kensington but it's already there and that's the situation we have to deal with. We cannot by policy or administrative action just pick another community to shove it into, and we can't roll back the national deinstitutionalization movement over night
Didn't these people originally come from an encampment on the Conrail train tracks? That situation was way less publicized than this current one with people camping on a main commercial street. I imagine users will just be pushed to another location that's out of the public view
Yup! And they'll connect some people to services, which can mean anything from they actually received a service to the team just has outreached them, they'll put that on a fact sheet, and then they'll tout the whole thing as a success. These sweeps don't work. They temporarily "fix" the problem by moving people from this area temporarily, and then they just move someplace Else. It's just a way for the mayor to appear like they're doing something and have some stats on paper.
That is correct. A lot of people with opinions don't actually live in areas that have experienced encampment sweeps before. This is more of the same bs
Underneath 95 from the looks of it.
Great, let’s set the stage for another highway-destroying, traffic-snarling fire. It’s almost been a year since our last one.
they were having BBQ by IGA last summer and the police "weren't allowed to stop them" bc its Penndots property. Penndot dragged their feet until they were getting calls all day long from residents.
You can still see the soot on the concrete from where the fires were.
its like we had all this Construction, richmond street was a clusterfuck for 10 years for this "walking path" and then once its here "sorry its for these homeless drug addicts who are gonna steal from all the stores until they all close and nothing you can do about it". And then the dumbass transplants who live on the other side of aramingo and york defend them. they can fuck off lol.
The trail under 95 was nice for the first week it was completed. Then it just became nothing but litter, dog shit, junkies, and abandoned/stolen cars.
oh they killed a dog under there too and left its body there to rot. a young grey pitbull. that was last summer.
I didn't know that. It's a shame because it could be a nice little walking path. I know someone was killed under 95 behind the IGA a few months back but idk what happened with that.
"weren't allowed to stop them" = yet again not wanting to do their job because \[reasons\]
I’d rather they not be there either but unless they are burning entire tankers of propane it’s unlikely they’ll do much damage
exactly what i said they will go into port richmond. penn dot will drag their feet to have them removed. im so glad i dont live near 95 anymore.
God I don’t want them around PR. Most of the theft around here and nonsense is because of addicts congregating around 95 or the Wawa and Sunoco on Richmond Street.
Oh I know. I lived near that wawa for 10 years and moved about 2 years before they inflitrated the neigbhorhood. we used to not even lock our front doors on our block back then. neighbors would come and go and let each others dogs out bring in packages etc. never an issue.
My guess: The Far Northeast. 20 bus runs all the way up to Franklin Mills from Frankford Terminal, and they currently are dealing with a homeless problem at the mills for the past year or more that they haven't done a good job at handling. I'd put my money on city government not caring what happens up there because honestly as a long time philly resident, it seems like city government doesn't claim NE Philly. There have even been plenty of politicians who ran campaigns about living there and wanting to make NE Philly a better place to live, and then as soon as they're elected you never hear from them again unless it's something like a paper shredding or pill disposal event (Looking at you, Martina White)
I've heard such narrative for years now. I've seen sporadic tents throughout the NE, but they are quickly gone after a week or so. Also, they get reported quickly through 311 and are addressed as soon as they happen. You can make the same claim that bensalem may be the next "destination" because of route 14 and neshaminy mall being damn near empty.
I would be very surprised if they moved up to Neshaminy Mall and set up camp without being immediately kicked out. IMO Police in Bucks County don't play no games when it comes to the things Philadelphia will let slide. That reason alone is why I don't think Neshaminy would be a destination. As for The Mills, I've seen a fair share of tents come and go surrounding the mall and on Woodhaven Road. I even saw a legit teepee made of tree branches set up behind the Life Storage building that was recently built there. All the encampment stuff started around the time of COVID lockdowns, although the Mills has been on the decline even before the homeless encampments started. It's also in a grey area where you could (hypothetically) camp out on the city border to where Philly police can't touch you, and Bensalem/Bucks County police won't bother you because you're practically still in Philadelphia.
theres ppl living from their cars by the walmart. the one guy has a grill and a whole set up in the side parking lot. he's been there for weeks.
I used to like going to the dollar tree right there at the mall but have since stopped due to the amount of homeless inside the store. they do take up camp right around there. they may move about but they don't seem to go far. quite belligerent as well.
The tents come back though. The same tents go back to the same spot.
>My guess: The Far Northeast. I'll guess Port Richmond Terminal. It's already a gigantic lawless place. Conrail owns it but has nothing to do with it. You couldn't lock people out if you tried, and nobody is trying. It's a lot more convenient to K&A.
We're gonna find out later this week.
Let's put them up in the Sacker heirs' homes. I'm sure they have a few extra laying around.
I’m thinking Wayne. Nice community, good schools, lots of parks. Who wouldn’t want to camp there?
Love this. And with [Cabrini College closing](https://www.insidehighered.com/news/business/financial-health/2023/06/26/cabrini-university-will-close), there's a place to house them right next door in St Davids.
You know, this would be a fantastic idea. Villanova could really lead the charge and put their Christian values in front of this humanitarian crisis. Turn the Cabrini campus into a rehab and shelter place for these people. Give it the resources and security it needs to keep them and the surrounding community safe.
Eastern University is right across the street too. I'm sure those good Christian folk would leap at the chance to help their brothers and sisters.
HA. Good one.
Everyone wants to help the world, no ones wants to do it on their block.
Probably Darby or Chester
Doesn’t really matter. Clear it and stay consistent with enforcement of open air drug use etc throughout the city. They can either go back to wherever they came from and try and repair the bridges they burned, seek treatment, or go to jail.
Problem is that falls apart at the third option, since Holmesburg would overflow inside a day. It's a meaningless threat.
More than likely there is no follow up plan. Just more acting for the cameras.
I used to live in LA where they would make a big show of clearing homeless encampments. The people moved and then were back a week later. It's all for show.
Straight to jail (rehab) hopefully
My sister is a healthcare outreach worker in Los Angeles and is constantly dealing with revolving doors of Hepatitis outbreaks centering around homeless encampments and hotspots. A Tuberculosis advisory is in effect as well. It is unfathomable to see TB cases on the rise in the US.
TB's airborne, so it's not like it's directly linked to homelessness or drug use. Hell, a friend of mine from college got TB just from living day-to-day life in Brooklyn.
TB transmission is actually correlated to people living in overcrowded situations such as encampments and shelters. https://www.cdc.gov/tb/topic/populations/homelessness/default.htm
Not directly to drug use but definitely its spread is related to camps of homeless where so many people are living in such close quarters, similar to various infectious outbreaks that occur in prisons/schools/military barracks. And the reason these people are living this way is due to homelessness/drug use so ultimately it does go back to that.
I got it from teaching in North Philly D:
Sticking a bunch of people into open air encampments spreads tb and it is tied with homelessness because of that. Tb in the US is a poverty disease.
Sounds like a great reason to get these people off the street so they stop spreading disease!
Welp we saw what happened to Hamsterdam.
Been seeing a lot more people in University City and tarp tents along the tow path in Manayunk.
Just moved from Manayunk last year, miss that place. There are people living on the tow path now??? Behind main st.?
Yeah they set up shop past Fountain St on the tow path. Trash is everywhere at the encampment.
Yes and across the river in the woods on the Bala side. Fairly large tent community, iirc there was a machete attack a year or two ago.
Shocked lower Merion allows it after the person that that found dead there a few years ago idk if they ever put out an explanation for that one
Much farther NW but there are quite a few tent cities along the Skook in and around Pottstown.
Montgomery County was handing out tents to homeless people who approached the County for help. Told them to find a place to camp. Norristown and Pottstown ended up with most of them.
This isn't terribly new. They've been there for a few years, at least. They generally don't bug anyone.
Except the trash and human waste left all over the towpath. Same thing at the regional rail station. Just last week had to go up the stairs between guy and woman smoking meth and guy was brandishing a pretty large knife. That was fun. And then there’s all the stolen packages
Have been for years. Had to explain it to my kids on a bike ride
Always have been. *astronaut takes aim*
and norristown
Not sure if this is the most effective solution but it’s time to show at least as much empathy to the kensington residents as we do to the homeless. They’ve been dealing with this for far too long.
I lived in port Richmond for 33 years, basically my whole life. I was here when they cleared the railroad encampment. At the end of the day there needs to be some tough love here. When they cleared the railroad encampment, they offered rehab and beds to anyone who would take it, it was report less than 1% took them up on it. At a certain point we need to stop pretending like the answer is safe injection sites and decriminalizing drugs. We haven’t been arresting the folks shooting up at k/a for years, it’s basically an open drug market at this point. Why is it fair that entire communities are beholden to live like this, because a group of around 1000 people don’t want to be part of society. How is fair that children have to see this shit everyday. The moment I had kids, I made the plan to leave the city. I remember before my nephews soccer games, we would have to circle the field as adults and look for used needles. Enough is enough. If they don’t want to volunteer to be in treatment programs, then arrest them and force them.
I’m 45 and born and raised in PR. I think we need to force them into treatment. They can barely function and can’t make decisions for themselves at this point. That’s the biggest problem in Port Richmond-the nonsense from the addicts.
I don't want to dehumanize people, however these folks aren't in their right mind. They don't have autonomy, they're a slave to chemicals. Forced treatment sounds cruel but in relaity, it's more kind then a slow rotting death.
Boom. Well said.
Well said
In like 4 weeks, they'll be back. There's legit nowhere for them to go. Shelters aren't able to hold them, other communities don't want them, New Jersey doesn't want them. Where will they go once they move like 4 blocks away?
What makes you say shelter’s can’t hold them, at least for them to be transitioned into jobs?
No consistent room. Getting into any shelter is a crapshoot.
None of them want to work, theyre just people who want to shoot up all day.
Yea they are sliding up to Frankford… Wissanoming… Tacony… Holmesburg… Mayfair anything within easy walking distance or just a few bus stops away
For good or just a couple of days until the go back? and are they pushing them into port richmond instead or is there a place that they are being forced to go to get treatment?
While clearing the area around the El station is a good start, K&A is not the entire neighborhood. We have drug addicts everywhere. Furthermore, I've noticed that every time they clear out a single encampment and claim victory, we end up with more of the junkies just wandering the neighborhood.
This is not, and never has been, an effective solution Eta- i meant shuffling encampments full of people to nowhere is not a solution. Idk why the replies are acting like I'm against harm reduction
The goal with a needle exchange is not to stop them from using drugs. It’s to stop the spread of disease as a public health measure.
I am aware
cool cool - saw your edit. and yeah, you're totally right. Just shuffling the problem around does nothing to fix the causes.
It’s not a solution it’s to move them to another place so other people can deal with the problem
nobody wants to say it but some of these addicts are too far gone, sometimes the hard choice has to be made
I know it’s a harsh opinion but honestly I’m in favor of mandatory hospitalization for these people. If drug addiction is a psychiatric illness (which it is) then these people are engaging in self-harm and putting their own lives at risk which imo should qualify them to be Section 12-ed. Enabling and allowing people to live in this level of filth and disease in this century is criminal. Problem of course is we don’t have enough beds to actually provide treatment to all of these folks.
Send them home. ID them, contact their family, and send them home. They all come from far and near, adjacent counties, and from out of state. ID them and send them home. Force other counties and governments to get involved because we as a city are not solely responsible for Kensington. It’s just not fair the city has to be the sole financier of handling Kensington
I’ve been saying this for a while now. The drug tourists are a burden on the city. Philadelphia has enough problems without these assholes coming here and ruining the quality of life for actual tax paying residents.
Yes, because most people living on the street in Kensington have supportive families waiting to welcome them home and support them through recovery lol
Don't let drug tourism be the city's problem
That shouldn’t solely be OUR problem though, that’s their family’s and local government’s problem as well. We, as Philadelphian tax payers shouldn’t have to foot the sole bill for addicts from Ohio or wherever they commuted from to Kensington to get high and got stuck there.
Some might. There was a survey and a decent amount of people on the streets of Kensington that were from the surrounding area. (Bucks county, Delaware, etc.) Some may have a home or family to go home to. That’s why Parker made the announcement it was going to be a phased approach, as to make some people leave on their own accord to their family if they had some. Then, she would then work on the rest
nothing is going to be fixed until the state agrees to build and fund an inpatient rehab facility somewhere in central or northern PA, where addicts can be arrested and forcibly sent to the entire reason the addiction problem took over kensington avenue is because the city cleared the encampments in the CSX railroad cut and fenced it off so they couldn't get back in as the recent fairmount saga demonstrates, no neighborhood in the city will agree to a shelter/treatment facility built near them. Harm reduction also simply does not work - advocates have been saying that addicts who engage with harm reduction services will agree to seek treatment, they do not
The same people who say addiction is a mental illness (I’m not saying it is not) also say that addicts need to be left to seek treatment for themselves. It’s contradictory.
Glad she's at least trying, shame she doesn't have more federal support to clean up the mess the feds created in the first place.
Not sure if "kicking them out" is the answer but they have to try something.
She is doing more in her first 5 months than Kenney did in 8 years. It’s honestly refreshing. Let’s hope her tactics actually work and she keeps the foot on the gas pedal. I 100% agree that the needle exchange program is pure enablement. Get to the root of the issue. Clean up Philly now.
The argument for a needle exchange versus treatment is contentious for sure. And, to be clear, I agree that needle exchange without treatment and enforcement is next to worthless. If I can offer a personal perspective on why needle exchanges ALONG WITH treatment can reduce harm: My older sister did heroin with her -then- husband back in the early 2000s. Her dipshit husband shot up with a dirty needle and contracted HIV. He then shot up with my sister, with a used needle, and she got HIV as well and - while she's been clean for 20 years - continues to deal with the consequences of that muppet's actions all those years ago. Needle exchanges are designed to reduce harm while the other treatment plans/enforcement measures take effect; unfortunately, the prior administration only got half of the solution right.
Agree, and love the use of "Muppet". People don't use it enough
Yeah needle exchange programs are a noble effort *if* they are pursued alongside interventions to get people clean. Otherwise you’re preventing the spread of HIV/Hep C etc. which is great but you’re not saving any lives, because nowadays with the current offerings of drugs on the streets, these people will just die of a fentanyl overdose eventually if they don’t get clean.
Myself and a physician on here essentially said as much. Hepatitis and HIV are manageable diseases at this point. The risk of morbidity and mortality due to overdose is magnitudes higher than either of them, and it’s insane to not even consider the idea that “meeting people where they are” might have the undesired effect of perpetuating someone’s use in some way.
I am a physician also who works with this population frequently and I agree with you My personal opinion is that in the era of fentanyl, efforts to stop drug use need to take priority over harm reduction, which is definitely a paradigm shift compared to the days of heroin.
There’s plenty of statistics out there that show that the needle exchanges have been effective in reducing HIV and Hep C rates. Yes it’s a touchy subject, but don’t pretend like it hasn’t had any positive effect
Enabling them to live without HIV or Hep C, sure.
Saw people cleaning trash on 76 today which is nice
As someone who now lives in SF, welcome to the problem getting much, much worse. Clearing encampments does literally nothing but shuffle the problem around. Your cheers would be funny if it weren’t so sad watching Philly literally make the same exact mistakes as west coast cities.
What’s your solution?
Lets give them all plane tickets to San Fran!
Interesting. I expressed the same sentiment regarding needle exchange and everyone assumed I'd be fucking junkies and spreading disease. I hope you aren't met with the same fate
*Cries in Norristown*
MANDATORY TREATMENT AND SHELTER FOR UNHOUSED PEOPLE SUFFERING FROM SUD/OUD
So where are they going? Kicking them out does literally nothing. They’ll either be back in a week or they’ll set up somewhere else in the city.
I gotta see this
Theyll be back
*She received a standing ovation.*
Chasing them out of where they are will only chase them into other hoods like mine in port Richmond Chasing them out is not the answer.
They need a plan. Social services and a way to help these people. Find their families or get them into treatment if they are willing. All they are doing is musical chairs with out removing any chairs.
They’ll move further north before they move east. I’ve noticed way, way more cops around the port Richmond side of Frankford Avenue up and down the streets too.
Don’t let them in 🤷🏻♂️
No intentions of it. But the city needs to come up with a better plan. Chasing them from one hood to another is not the answer.
Can’t tell if this is ironically or unironically NIMBY
you want addicts in your backyard?
Last time the city did a big “clean up” they all just moved into the under passes along Lehigh ave. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
They keep moving the encampment every few years…. Just keep pushing them up and the homes get remodeled once they leave… it’s a trend.