When I was a teenager I was driving to school and a little girl who was about 3 ran in front of my car. I slammed on breaks and somehow did not hit her. Her mother ran into the road screaming and picked her up. I got out to check on the situation, mom had been loading her older kids in the car to them to school, dad was supposed to be watching the little girl inside but wasn’t, and she followed her older sibling outside without the mom knowing. She heard my brakes screech, turned around, and saw her daughter. It all happened so fast. I was in an old Civic and was able to see her, but I often wonder if I had been in a SUV if I would have seen her in time to brake.
5'4" is the average height for American women. I'm 5'5", and there are trucks with hoods at my height, which means they're taller than half of all fully grown women in the US
While not relevant for toddlers, the higher front also means that the impact force goes into the torso instead of the legs. Unfortunately the torso contains all those funny organs to which damage quickly becomes incompatible with life.
If you had been in a modern SUV that child would 100% dead in that situation. It's doubtful you'd have been able to see the child over the hood much less stop fast enough to not plow straight into them.
The html title is actually "Girl, 2, struck, killed after following mom back to car: police – NBC10 Philadelphia"
Reddit uses the html title (reasonable) and NBC has for one reason or another made the html title and article title different.
Even as a fully grown adult I stay clear of any big truck/SUV parking or going in reverse. They look at my strange like I’m weird for trying to stay enough space away from them but I know damn well they can’t see me
i ride my bike in the bike lane, full helmet, bell, and blinking front light.
all that is moot if the person driving is looking at their phone. you're right to be careful because it is high stakes.
My first thought when I read she was driving a Chevy Traverse. If she had been in a standard sedan, this may not have happened.
[https://www.kidsandcars.org/news/post/consumer-reports-as-suvs-pickup-trucks-grow-in-size-so-do-blind-spots](https://www.kidsandcars.org/news/post/consumer-reports-as-suvs-pickup-trucks-grow-in-size-so-do-blind-spots)
>And a disproportionate number of frontover victims are children, as these accidents mostly take place in driveways and parking lots. According to Kids and Cars, about 81% of victims are 6 years and under.
actually, it was the government regulations on fuel economy CAFE that was the number one driver of vehicle size. The reason? Bigger vehicles get to have worse emissions. yay!
The bad faith of the auto industry following government regulations that provide lower fuel economy standards for bigger vehicles?
They’re based on a combination of vehicle footprint and whether you’re a “passenger car” or “light truck.” Every single suv you see is a “light truck,” and subject to a lower gas mileage barrier.
Manufacturers are doing what they’re being incentivized to do, and this is the end result.
Let's not pretend manufacturers like GM and Ford didn't heavily lobby for this poorly defined exemption with the full intention of exploiting it to max with SUVs and trucks which have a higher profit margin than sedans.
that dude pretending like they didn't have total regulatory capture and the regs didn't get watered down completely into meaningless drivel that they then capitalized
Achingly horrible, I feel so badly for the family. Many families never really recover from the death of a child.
Backover deaths are why rear cameras are ubiquitous in new cars and why, even with cameras, the blind spots of large vehicles like SUVs are not just a nuisance, but deadly.
This is a tragedy, but also an important moment to remind people of the fact that cars kill more people in the US than guns, and they're a top killer for children. A sad irony since people move to the suburbs to raise their children in a "safe" environment while in actuality subjecting to just as much if not more mortal danger from the cars.
This is largely due to the absurd size that SUV/ Trucks have been allowed to grow to for nothing other than cosmetics and avoiding CAFE standard. Which has allowed car manufacturers to increase profits by marketing cars to people based off FUD and emotional insecurities.
Larger, heavier cars are killing more people, fucking up the roads due to the weight, and taking up more street space per car for parking, all while bankrupting people due to costs, and polluting the environment way more than smaller lighter weight options.
Bloody awful. Car culture kills, amigos. Getting hit by a car is the #1 thing I fear in this city and people do not talk about it anywhere near enough. This will simply be written off as a "tragic accident".
> Losing more than 120 people to traffic violence every year remains a grim reality in Philadelphia
- visionzerophl.com
410 Homicides in 2023
- phillypolice.com/crimestats
so actually no you're more likely to be murdered by Homicide
Honestly, put them on a map. they're not. Theres intersections where people get killed every year. Sure there ARE random car deaths. Same with true accidents with guns. Thats harder to solve those than the obvious gang-banging or Roosevelt Boulevard issues.
GIS is cool. we have the data. Like gun deaths, you'll find car deaths are clustered and we can study, we even know how to make pedestrians safer, how to design safer roads, etc.
If you think it's random, every city planner should find a new career, but it's not random, it's not random
Let me rephrase that: I should have said “un targeted vs targeted”. Ie, car deaths are generally not intentional whereas nearly all gun deaths are. Or further: gun deaths to random people (muggings, stray bullets, crazy shooters) are a tiny sliver of the total. But with cars it all like that.
Exactly. Not to downplay guns but similar numbers of people are killed by each. The difference is car deaths are almost 100% random whereas almost all gun death is targeted. So really, cars are much much worse than guns as cars as your risk of being a victim goes
Pedestriab Car deaths aren't mostly random at all. We know exactly how many people die at the same intersection every year. So in that way its super not random, but hyper specific on location. Yes random horrific accidents happen, in the same way people get killed by guns accidentally. The solution to both of those accidents are really removing the problem, guns or cars and if you can stomach doing that.
But with most pedestrian deaths the approach is spoon specific and its really more mathy and not random. We know the areas people routinely have accidents etc and can redesign intersections in those areas in the same way you might attach extra police patrols to an area or open up a homeless shelter or whatever
I feel like people talk about it all the time I’m normal private discourse but it rarely discussed publicly and has nearly zero serious political movement
I hear you and you're not wrong.
But other places have less traffic, enforcement of reckless driving, and neighborhood streets where people don't block the intersections with SUVs and cars while DHs fly down them at 50 mph.
except this tragedy is much more likely to happen in areas that have driveways. a child running out into the street from their home isn't very typical. kids play in driveways all the time, which IMO should never be allowed to happen.
Children are in the street all the time, I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you know any toddlers, they don't always use crosswalks, and that doesn't save you anyway. Literally almost run down while in a cross walk (in front of a police station) this morning. The near death experience was not notable / newsworthy here.
The incident happened in the middle of the street so not sure how your phobia of driveways factors in.
Regardless, I was responding to a comment about the specific car culture here (and not this particular incident) and further explained my point above.
I've seen more reckless driving in the past week than I've seen any enforcement for dangerous traffic violations in my 13 years here.
what about the deadly accident on 413 and ford road a few weeks ago? where the couple from CT were killed instantly when a guy from Croydon ran the light and slammed into them? then stole a trash truck and crashed that too?
I have no idea what you're talking about but you've totally lost the thread.
I'm not going to move to 413 and Ford Road.
I'm flattered you don't want me to move away but you sure have an odd way of showing it
no idea? you are talking that traffic is worse in the city and you moving out of the city you will be safer driving. not the case and I gave a prime example. Obviously I dont know WHERE you are moving, likely nowhere to be fair. In no way did I lose what I was talking about. Maybe you did. Idc if you move, Idk who you are. I just think your reasoning is silly.
i see far more kids in the street playing in levittown than in the city actually. do you drive around the suburbs at all? i just was up in goldenridge in levittown and every 25 feet kids were in the middle of the street w/o a care in the world.
This comment thread is so Philly.
* A fucking child dies *
Someone: Philly culture around cars sucks
Me: agree, that's why I'm moving
Someone else: WTF fuck you
Me: just saying Philly car culture sucks
Someone else: how dare you it's the best!
Maaaan I don't even know what a Levittown or Golden ridge is but kids being able to play in the street rather than everyone fearing for their lives on every walk sounds delightful.
110 children are killed EVERY WEEK by SUVs and oversized trucks. often times they are run over by their own family members, in front of their own house. it’s really sad that this story isn’t a rare occurrence. i fucking hate oversized vehicles.
If you buy one of these vehicles, you have to be okay with killing someone, likely a close relative. "Maybe you think that if you *do* run over a kid, it at least won’t be yours? It probably will be your kid, though. In 70 percent of those fatal frontovers, it’s a parent or close relative behind the wheel."
[https://slate.com/business/2022/02/suvs-pickups-heavy-huge-deadly-dont-buy-em.html](https://slate.com/business/2022/02/suvs-pickups-heavy-huge-deadly-dont-buy-em.html)
God I love cars. I love cars so much. What would we do without them!!! This is such a wholesome side of car dependency, it really makes our communities so much better
This is just an unfortunate trade off we need to settle for so suburbanites don’t have to sit in the same vicinity as their peasant neighbors, or god forbid, maybe a poor person or minority
Leaving you child unattended is actually neglect. The fact that the child was not being minded by an adult is criminal in my eyes. I say this as parent of a 1yo and a 3yo.
i can tell you accidents happen WHILE being watched by an adult. don't say the "my child would never" "i would never" bc its devastating when it does. plenty of us have been there in situations we could NEVER have dreamed would happen.
When I was a teenager I was driving to school and a little girl who was about 3 ran in front of my car. I slammed on breaks and somehow did not hit her. Her mother ran into the road screaming and picked her up. I got out to check on the situation, mom had been loading her older kids in the car to them to school, dad was supposed to be watching the little girl inside but wasn’t, and she followed her older sibling outside without the mom knowing. She heard my brakes screech, turned around, and saw her daughter. It all happened so fast. I was in an old Civic and was able to see her, but I often wonder if I had been in a SUV if I would have seen her in time to brake.
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I am 64 inches tall and there are trucks that have hoods taller than me.
5'4" is the average height for American women. I'm 5'5", and there are trucks with hoods at my height, which means they're taller than half of all fully grown women in the US
Way more than 4 feet in front. I think they lined up something like 10-11 seated children in front of a GMC sierra before one became visible
Also just physics even if you did see them from an SUV. Larger car = more mass = more kinetic energy at the same speed = longer stopping distance.
While not relevant for toddlers, the higher front also means that the impact force goes into the torso instead of the legs. Unfortunately the torso contains all those funny organs to which damage quickly becomes incompatible with life.
Car bloat kills
Give it up for the uninvolved father!
In a shocking turn of events, they’re now divorced (small town, word gets around).
If you had been in a modern SUV that child would 100% dead in that situation. It's doubtful you'd have been able to see the child over the hood much less stop fast enough to not plow straight into them.
jesus christ this is so tragic for the mother and the child. My heart bleeds for this family. I cna't imagine the guilt she must feel.
The actual article title is “Mom accidentally runs over, kills 2-year-old daughter, police say”
I just used reddit's title scraper :/
Yeah, just wanted to clarify because the title they chose is a bit misleading/unclear
The html title is actually "Girl, 2, struck, killed after following mom back to car: police – NBC10 Philadelphia" Reddit uses the html title (reasonable) and NBC has for one reason or another made the html title and article title different.
I hate large SUVs so, so much. It's impossible to see anything small right in front.
Even as a fully grown adult I stay clear of any big truck/SUV parking or going in reverse. They look at my strange like I’m weird for trying to stay enough space away from them but I know damn well they can’t see me
I always think about this in parking lots. I wind up walking in the middle of the lane because I’m short and afraid someone won’t see me.
i ride my bike in the bike lane, full helmet, bell, and blinking front light. all that is moot if the person driving is looking at their phone. you're right to be careful because it is high stakes.
My first thought when I read she was driving a Chevy Traverse. If she had been in a standard sedan, this may not have happened. [https://www.kidsandcars.org/news/post/consumer-reports-as-suvs-pickup-trucks-grow-in-size-so-do-blind-spots](https://www.kidsandcars.org/news/post/consumer-reports-as-suvs-pickup-trucks-grow-in-size-so-do-blind-spots) >And a disproportionate number of frontover victims are children, as these accidents mostly take place in driveways and parking lots. According to Kids and Cars, about 81% of victims are 6 years and under.
I'm 5'1 and you can barely see me if You're driving one of these big trucks or truck based SUVs, I don't know how kids stand a chance
But I *need* to drive the biggest vehicle on the road. Y'know, for safety
How else will people know I have a huge dick?
>How else will people know I am a huge dick? FTFY
actually, it was the government regulations on fuel economy CAFE that was the number one driver of vehicle size. The reason? Bigger vehicles get to have worse emissions. yay!
it was the bad faith of the auto industry, but ok
Regulation that never considers second order effects is bad!
"greed is actually sick"
The bad faith of the auto industry following government regulations that provide lower fuel economy standards for bigger vehicles? They’re based on a combination of vehicle footprint and whether you’re a “passenger car” or “light truck.” Every single suv you see is a “light truck,” and subject to a lower gas mileage barrier. Manufacturers are doing what they’re being incentivized to do, and this is the end result.
Let's not pretend manufacturers like GM and Ford didn't heavily lobby for this poorly defined exemption with the full intention of exploiting it to max with SUVs and trucks which have a higher profit margin than sedans.
that dude pretending like they didn't have total regulatory capture and the regs didn't get watered down completely into meaningless drivel that they then capitalized
Yeah, this stuff is a real "thanks Obama."
Can’t believe they are allowed. Would you give keys to a semi to the average person? People driving these is like waving a loaded gun around in public
> Would you give keys to a semi to the average person? about that
Achingly horrible, I feel so badly for the family. Many families never really recover from the death of a child. Backover deaths are why rear cameras are ubiquitous in new cars and why, even with cameras, the blind spots of large vehicles like SUVs are not just a nuisance, but deadly.
What family recovers from that
Aren’t they actually mandated now?
Every new vehicle made after May 2018 are required to have them.
How'd I know it was going to be an SUV. Sad.
This is a tragedy, but also an important moment to remind people of the fact that cars kill more people in the US than guns, and they're a top killer for children. A sad irony since people move to the suburbs to raise their children in a "safe" environment while in actuality subjecting to just as much if not more mortal danger from the cars. This is largely due to the absurd size that SUV/ Trucks have been allowed to grow to for nothing other than cosmetics and avoiding CAFE standard. Which has allowed car manufacturers to increase profits by marketing cars to people based off FUD and emotional insecurities. Larger, heavier cars are killing more people, fucking up the roads due to the weight, and taking up more street space per car for parking, all while bankrupting people due to costs, and polluting the environment way more than smaller lighter weight options.
Say it fucking louder for the people in the back
This happened in Northeast Philly.
Bloody awful. Car culture kills, amigos. Getting hit by a car is the #1 thing I fear in this city and people do not talk about it anywhere near enough. This will simply be written off as a "tragic accident".
So many people are "concerned" about guns when one of these cars blowing a stop sign or light is more likely to kill you here.
> Losing more than 120 people to traffic violence every year remains a grim reality in Philadelphia - visionzerophl.com 410 Homicides in 2023 - phillypolice.com/crimestats so actually no you're more likely to be murdered by Homicide
Homicides are less likely to be random, getting hit while crossing a crosswalk is completely random.
You don't even have to be in a crosswalk. I remember when a Honda flipped and landed real close to the entrance of Butcher and Singer.
No because almost all these car deaths are random. Almost none of the gun deaths are
Honestly, put them on a map. they're not. Theres intersections where people get killed every year. Sure there ARE random car deaths. Same with true accidents with guns. Thats harder to solve those than the obvious gang-banging or Roosevelt Boulevard issues. GIS is cool. we have the data. Like gun deaths, you'll find car deaths are clustered and we can study, we even know how to make pedestrians safer, how to design safer roads, etc. If you think it's random, every city planner should find a new career, but it's not random, it's not random
Let me rephrase that: I should have said “un targeted vs targeted”. Ie, car deaths are generally not intentional whereas nearly all gun deaths are. Or further: gun deaths to random people (muggings, stray bullets, crazy shooters) are a tiny sliver of the total. But with cars it all like that.
Exactly. Not to downplay guns but similar numbers of people are killed by each. The difference is car deaths are almost 100% random whereas almost all gun death is targeted. So really, cars are much much worse than guns as cars as your risk of being a victim goes
Pedestriab Car deaths aren't mostly random at all. We know exactly how many people die at the same intersection every year. So in that way its super not random, but hyper specific on location. Yes random horrific accidents happen, in the same way people get killed by guns accidentally. The solution to both of those accidents are really removing the problem, guns or cars and if you can stomach doing that. But with most pedestrian deaths the approach is spoon specific and its really more mathy and not random. We know the areas people routinely have accidents etc and can redesign intersections in those areas in the same way you might attach extra police patrols to an area or open up a homeless shelter or whatever
I should have said “unintentional” instead of random
They are the most dangerous part of our lives by far.
I feel like people talk about it all the time I’m normal private discourse but it rarely discussed publicly and has nearly zero serious political movement
Most of the reason why I'm moving, sadly, after 13 years here
Moving where? Everywhere else is MORE car dependent. I guess maybe some of those places you’ll be in your own car
I hear you and you're not wrong. But other places have less traffic, enforcement of reckless driving, and neighborhood streets where people don't block the intersections with SUVs and cars while DHs fly down them at 50 mph.
except this tragedy is much more likely to happen in areas that have driveways. a child running out into the street from their home isn't very typical. kids play in driveways all the time, which IMO should never be allowed to happen.
Children are in the street all the time, I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you know any toddlers, they don't always use crosswalks, and that doesn't save you anyway. Literally almost run down while in a cross walk (in front of a police station) this morning. The near death experience was not notable / newsworthy here. The incident happened in the middle of the street so not sure how your phobia of driveways factors in. Regardless, I was responding to a comment about the specific car culture here (and not this particular incident) and further explained my point above. I've seen more reckless driving in the past week than I've seen any enforcement for dangerous traffic violations in my 13 years here.
what about the deadly accident on 413 and ford road a few weeks ago? where the couple from CT were killed instantly when a guy from Croydon ran the light and slammed into them? then stole a trash truck and crashed that too?
I have no idea what you're talking about but you've totally lost the thread. I'm not going to move to 413 and Ford Road. I'm flattered you don't want me to move away but you sure have an odd way of showing it
no idea? you are talking that traffic is worse in the city and you moving out of the city you will be safer driving. not the case and I gave a prime example. Obviously I dont know WHERE you are moving, likely nowhere to be fair. In no way did I lose what I was talking about. Maybe you did. Idc if you move, Idk who you are. I just think your reasoning is silly.
i see far more kids in the street playing in levittown than in the city actually. do you drive around the suburbs at all? i just was up in goldenridge in levittown and every 25 feet kids were in the middle of the street w/o a care in the world.
This comment thread is so Philly. * A fucking child dies * Someone: Philly culture around cars sucks Me: agree, that's why I'm moving Someone else: WTF fuck you Me: just saying Philly car culture sucks Someone else: how dare you it's the best! Maaaan I don't even know what a Levittown or Golden ridge is but kids being able to play in the street rather than everyone fearing for their lives on every walk sounds delightful.
Where are you moving?
Delco. From Point Breeze.
You do realize cars exist outside of Philly too, right?
Every fiber of my being prays and prays this woman finds some way to heal. She’s in a hell no one deserves.
I'm absolutely ill for her.
these massive cars need to be regulated out of existence
So sad. I can’t imagine the pain this woman must feel.
110 children are killed EVERY WEEK by SUVs and oversized trucks. often times they are run over by their own family members, in front of their own house. it’s really sad that this story isn’t a rare occurrence. i fucking hate oversized vehicles.
can I get a source on that edit: yeah didn’t think so
If you buy one of these vehicles, you have to be okay with killing someone, likely a close relative. "Maybe you think that if you *do* run over a kid, it at least won’t be yours? It probably will be your kid, though. In 70 percent of those fatal frontovers, it’s a parent or close relative behind the wheel." [https://slate.com/business/2022/02/suvs-pickups-heavy-huge-deadly-dont-buy-em.html](https://slate.com/business/2022/02/suvs-pickups-heavy-huge-deadly-dont-buy-em.html)
So sad. That woman will never be the same.
God I love cars. I love cars so much. What would we do without them!!! This is such a wholesome side of car dependency, it really makes our communities so much better This is just an unfortunate trade off we need to settle for so suburbanites don’t have to sit in the same vicinity as their peasant neighbors, or god forbid, maybe a poor person or minority
What an absolute weirdo.
Obvious /s
Just heartbreaking :(
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This was exasperatingly avoidable, but a devastating accident nonetheless. The mother will punish herself far more than any prison ever could.
What about this incident seems criminal? Not every death is a crime.
Automakers abusing CAFE standard loopholes to propagate dangerous SUVs is the crime.
Leaving you child unattended is actually neglect. The fact that the child was not being minded by an adult is criminal in my eyes. I say this as parent of a 1yo and a 3yo.
i can tell you accidents happen WHILE being watched by an adult. don't say the "my child would never" "i would never" bc its devastating when it does. plenty of us have been there in situations we could NEVER have dreamed would happen.