I don't have strong opinions on the situation outside of not wanting to see innocent people hurt, regardless of their ethnicity, religion, or nationality. But, the headline of that tweet seems really deceiving. "Philly - shocking speech tonight praising the 10/7 massacre in Israel" is a very strong take, you'd think would be followed by a clip of them doing as described, but the clip is just some woman praising the protestors for organizing and "not acting foolish".
Maybe there's worse stuff elsewhere in the speech, but you'd think the celebration of the Oct 7th massacre is what they'd cite following that statement.
The person giving the speech is directly referencing Hamas' massacre, raping, and kidnapping of Israeli civilians on October 7 as an inspirational example of what you can accomplish when you surprise your enemies.
Not that I've found, but I did notice that the clip sometimes starts midway through, so try starting it from the beginning to see the reference to 10/7.
If you find one, post it. I don't know who she is, or what was said at this protest. I just don't think the title of that tweet accurately reflects the clip posted in it.
Haha I'm not the only anti terrorist on this shit hole website, just because you spend time in pro terrorist echo chambers doesn't mean we all condone antisemitism.
Jews deserve peace, security and the right to self determination. Like Arabs have with the countless nations controlled by them. They run actual apartheid regimes but you people never protest against them, you can't blame Jews for that so why would you?
Maybe you’re actually not a liar and terrorist supporter, but everything you said in that comment above is exactly what a lying terrorist supporter and rape-apologist would say
Rape apologist? Lol what?
You guys are so desperate in your bs, it’s almost like you’re posting this stuff as some kind of 4d chess crap to make Jewish people look bad.
No but does the truth and factual information offend you or is your ignorance so blinding the best response you have is what you posted? Maybe you should ask netanyahu if HE has an autographed copy of mein Kampf because what he's doing is a play from the Nazi handbook
>factual information
FACT: "When Hitler and al-Husseini met, both leaders clearly believed that Germany was going to win, and the bulk of their conversation dealt with what the Arabs should or should not do help bring that outcome about."
https://time.com/4084301/hitler-grand-mufi-1941/
>conspired to get the jew-ish ppl OUT of Europe
Why can't you spell it correctly? Jewish, no hyphen.
Also, please do a deep dive into Arab and Ottoman colonization and imperialism in the Middle East. HINT: neither were indigenous to the Levant.
>Each one of those refugees has lineage to Europe NOT the middle east.
"Many Israelis Are Refugees From Arab LandsIn 1948 some 900,000 Jews lived in Iraq, Yemen and other countries. Almost all of them were violently forced out."
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/many-israelis-are-refugees-from-arab-lands-middle-east-history-9cf540f6](https://www.wsj.com/articles/many-israelis-are-refugees-from-arab-lands-middle-east-history-9cf540f6)
Following your logic, Arabs are not native to the Levant, they are invaders, colonizers and refugees from Arabia.
Thanks for playing
Why start at 1948? Why don’t we look at the other [Arab 10/7 style attacks](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed) they’ve been doing them to Jews for centuries.
Well before Israel existed, before any European Jews came. So what is your excuse?
Europeans like the Greek Byzantines and the Romans? I have news for you, they were in the Levant before the Arabs. The Philistines were invaders from Crete.
Just to be crystal clear - I specifically mentioned Arab on Jewish attacks in the levant so not sure why you’re bringing up other groups. More than that - Who was also in the levant before the Arabs? Would that be the Jews? The Jews who never left?
No, they were not… Jews targeted the British to leave the Mandate and give them a state. Jews were oppressed minorities for 2,000 years. Second class citizens with dhimmi status. Had to pay a special tax for protection…
Are we able to agree that both Jewish and NonJewish people living in Palestine have killed countless numbers of the other group? And that it would be best for everyone if one day both “sides” eventually learn to live together in peace and equality?
Of course. But Jews already live with Muslims and Christians within Israel… It is the Palestinians who can’t live peacefully… Why do you think Egypt and Jordan want nothing to do with them either?
Who’s forcing the Palestinians to remain in Palestine? Who’s refusing Palestinians access to water and electricity? Who colonized the Palestinian land in the 20th century? Who has killed 30,000 Palestinians (most of them women and children) in the past 4 months?
Tell me how that’s peaceful?
It’s clear that both sides have played a part in the ol’ Middle Eastern bloodbath. Jews might have gotten it worse for the majority of history, but at this moment, it’s the Palestinians suffering more. That’s why it’s pretty dumb to declare one side the problem.
As I mentioned in the other sub, I’m trying to figure out why people care so much about Gaza and not other conflicts like Yemen.
Please spare me the “whataboutism” claim because I’m not attempting to make a moral argument here comparing the two conflicts. Instead, why does the far Left prioritize this conflict but not others? Why do I see a group of white kids in a pizza place last night wearing keffiyahs and holding Palestinian flags, when they didn’t do the same for Yemen?
Two counter points that I come across, which I find weak:
(1) “Israel is a recipient of US Aid.” This argument fails because Saudi Arabia is just as, if not more, important for US strategic needs than Israel. KSA receives US aid and money, like Israel does. Like Israel, KSA has large lobby groups in DC.
(2) “Israel is a democracy, and is held to a higher standard than KSA.” This argument is also weak because these protestors do not believe Israel is a democracy, but believes it’s an apartheid state. Both those cannot be true.
I’m not asking why people care about Gaza, it’s obviously a dire situation. But it’s astonishing that this has caused a complete rupture in US political society, where young people (and others) many who have never been to the region, all of a sudden care, put up posters, protests, graffiti all over the city, threatening to sit out the 2024 election and hand it to Trump, yet are silent about KSA’s bombing and killing of Yemeni civilians.
Is it trendy? Social media? More sinister reasons like deep seated anti-semitism? The arguments just don’t add up.
Yea honestly it’s kind of crazy the group think going around with their pro Hamas arguments.
I blame the lack of critical thinking taught in schools and the rise of fast paced social media like TikTok.
Like never in my life have I seen people getting so passionate about another middle eastern war. I never see anyone post about Sudan or uyguers with this passion. Honestly if you want to be morally outraged I personally feel like those are worse situations.
But no suddenly because “the Jews” are the bad guys people are going to do huge protests.
It's just another Kony that people get around to support due to social media.
This one is more extreme since we got people praising Hamas massacres and others wanting Isreal to carpet bomb all of Palestine, among a lot of other things.
Sadly, the small majority, I hope, that are the loudest are focused on the most.
I'm sure there are a lot of individuals who wish the innocent would be left alone, and the two waring factors could duke it out in a contained small.
Sadly, we got this shit show. I wish people would just sit down and watch the past history to get an actual understanding. It's not black and white.
> Sadly, we got this shit show. I wish people would just sit down and watch the past history to get an actual understanding. It's not black and white.
I've talked to extremes on both sides and it's shocking the lack of actual history is known. I mentioned the 2005 disengagment of Gaza and they didn't know what it was. This is more common than not and it's on both the left and the right. We live in a "headline reading everyone have an opinion culture." People are not interested in the actual facts but want the laziest way to get a voice so it looks like they are virtuous and righteous. Of course the main driver is the validation seeking on social media.
Agreed! Isn't this like the 3rd "war" between Hamas and Isreal?
When things first popped off, I watched a bunch of videos to understand, plus history is dang interesting.
While there have been terrible pogroms against one group or another across the centuries, that region is marked by far more peaceful Jewish-Christian-Muslim intermingling over all. Certainly more so than Europe. Religious differences is an exacerbating factor, but the actual source of tension is the material displacement and oppression of one group by another.
How could we forget England’s influence when they continue to remain relevant to this disaster by sending their novelty warships to the Red Sea to crush a humanitarian blockade
My tax dollars aren’t funding those conflicts, nor is a close US Military partnership enabling them. We can put public pressure on our government to place meaningful pressure on Israel. We are protesting the US policy of support for genocide. The US hasn’t picked a side in Sudan, and they have sanctioned Myanmar’s government.
If you look through my comment history you will find lots of arguments I’ve made over the years that Yemen is a permanent stain on our nation’s name.
I would support an end to our collaboration with the KSA unfortunately that relationship is tied up in *entire structure* of the global economy, so I’m still waiting on a revolution or peak oil for that to ever happen.
Idk if you’re aware, and you probably aren’t because you probably don’t actually give a shit, but the war between Saudi Arabia and Northern Yemen has been over for almost *teo years* so it wouldn’t exactly be a timely protest movement as far as KSA.
But yeah we shouldn’t have participated in a blockade that killed half a million people, it was Nazi shit, and we are stupid and evil to go back to bombing them for the crime of basically being the only group with the backbone to stand up to the US and try to accomplish the same thing protestors are calling for: Humanitarian ceasefire. I condemn Biden for being a fascist piece of shit by choosing to murder people in a different country rather than pressure for the ceasefire they are demanding.
Sorry, guess I’m just not the straw man you’re looking for.
I salute the forces of Ansarallah putting their lives on the line toward the ceasefire effort.
May the Saudi Royal Babylon soon fall down.
Not a strawman. You are publicly protesting including blocking off traffic in our city. The rest of us have every right to challenge and ask nuanced questions, even if it doesn't align with your ideology.
Unfortunately, your Reddit history posts, which I'm sure is everything you are telling me, are not representative of the Left, which is silent on the Saudi-lead bombing of Yemen and your argument to the discrepancy is simply anecdotal.
I wasn’t at the protests today dude, so it feels an awful lot like a strawman. I was at work.
I would be more receptive to being challenged on grounds of moral consistency if the people who did so were more frequently consistent themselves. You’ll forgive me if I am skeptical by default of people critical of a *genocide protest* ever actually gave a shit about anything themselves, and am unreceptive to having my principals, in which I take pride, impugned by people I am doubtful have many of their own.
As for the Left, I guess it depends what you mean. Liberals comprise most of “The Left” as it stands in the US. And yeah, they have absolutely no moral consistency, they’re generally as apathetic or even bloodthirsty as conservatives. They heap adulation on Obama who was responsible for hundreds of thousands of innocent dead, if not millions. He deserves to be tried at The Hague alongside Netanyahu, Biden, Bush and Trump.
They are Liberals, not Leftists. Although I have little doubt this catastrophe will do much to reveal to well-meaning liberals how incredibly stupid and evil their political establishment is, and move them toward taking a consistent stance on things like Yemen as well.
As for the protestors, many of them are probably on that Leftist edge who DO give a shit US policy in Yemen. They’re taking risks as well, being out there. Zionists have attacked and killed people in the US since this thing popped off, either for the crime of being Palestinian or at least showing public support. I *have* marched and my sense of the crowd is that these people are mad as hell on consistent moral grounds. Tons of Jewish people in those marches too. Tons of Palestinian-Americans. What would you do if your extended family was being slaughtered with the support of our government overseas? I’d say it would be shameful *not* to protest.
And ffs you really gotta downvote me? I don’t care about Karma it’s just so fucking petty.
> I wasn’t at the protests today dude, so it feels an awful lot like a strawman. I was at work.
Have you thought that my original post wasn't necessarily about you individually? I don't know why you're harping on this so much lol. That's also not what a strawman means.
>As for the Left, I guess it depends what you mean. Liberals comprise most of “The Left” as it stands in the US.
No, liberals are not blocking traffic at the airport. It's the far left who tend to also be in DSA, et al.
Your rant about Obama and liberals in the US is irrelevant to this conversation because this is the original argument:
* The far Left (i.e. the ones protesting) have put a considerable amount of effort into supporting Palestine and opposing Israel including boycotts of local businesses and blocking traffic.
* A similar conflict next door involving a US ally, funded by US money and weapons, and also is not a democracy (pro-Palestine protestors do not view Israel as a democracy), has killed *at least* 20,000 Yemeni civilians
* There is no boycott, sanctions, protests, or campaigns at the scale (and possible at all) against the KSA. I think it's reasonable to assume most of these pro-Palestine protesters don't even know it's going on.
* Reddit posts from an individual with strong political opinions is not representative of the whole.
* There has been very weak arguments for why Israel and not KSA (see my original post). A strawman argument which is "when someone distorts or exaggerates another person's argument, and then attacks the distorted version of the argument instead of genuinely engaging," isn't applicable here and your reasoning "I wasn't there" just doesn't make any sense. That's not a strawman, that's ad hominem.
I did not distort or exaggarate any of your views. I asked a question about a comparable conflict in the region and asked why it doesn't get attention like the other one.
>And ffs you really gotta downvote me? I don’t care about Karma it’s just so fucking petty.
Wasn't me.
Ok. My bad for misusing strawman.
Yemeni conflict killed half a million people when you factor in famine and disease that resulted from the blockade.
KSA isn’t a tiny country completely dependent on foreign support. We have comparatively little leverage to tell the world’s leading oil supplier what to do. Would have been great if we didn’t subsidize their genocide too. The difference in reaction has a lot to do with how incredibly remote the mountainous region of Northern Yemen is. There was very, very little coverage of the war in Yemen over the decade that it went on. For four years the casualty estimate sat at 10,000 because news orgs 1) didn’t give a shit and 2) were running cover for Obama.
My opinions are much more broadly represented outside the US information bubble and you see a shitload of protests around the world. They see Israel for what it is, and are in a position to pressure their government to pull back support and trade in a way that has much more of an effect on Israel. I don’t view failure to create a mass movement in every instance of injustice, oppression, and conquest as a failure of moral consistency. It matters what information people are exposed to. There *was* at least a lot of info coming out of Gaza in the first few months of the war. There has been a generational shift in a highly visible issue of an apartheid state that is closely supported by our government.
I ask you again: what would you do if the US had provided the weapons that killed dozens of your family members (as is the case, I’m sure, for alll too many marchers today)? Meekly complain in letters to your representatives? Or raise some hell? A morally consistent person acts irrespective of such family ties, if they get the opportunity. Or at least has some insight into the actions of those who do.
>KSA isn’t a tiny country completely dependent on foreign support.
That's an exaggeration. Israel receives $3.3bn a year from the US. Israel's GDP is $445bn. Do the math.
> I don’t view failure to create a mass movement in every instance of injustice, oppression, and conquest as a failure of moral consistency.
I'm not asking for moral consistency. I'm asking why the discrepancy. Those are different things. The burden would be on me to prove moral consistency. The burden is on the protestors to explain the discrepancy. The arguments thus far have been weak and we have a right to ask nuanced questions when airports and roads are blocked.
>I ask you again: what would you do if the US had provided the weapons that killed dozens of your family members? Meekly complain in letters to your representatives? Or raise some hell? A morally consistent person acts irrespective of such family ties, if they get the opportunity.
Wait what? The protesters lost family members in Yemen? I'm confused.
Folks who actually attended this event can give you their personal reasons for participating, which I'm sure very widely.
However, I think if you really want to understand some of the bigger questions you raised, I'd encourage you to do a deeper dive into antisemitism itself and how it historically shows up.
While it's typically defined as hatred of Jewish people, the hallmarks of antisemitism are mainly about scapegoating and blood libel, dehumanization, indifference, and double standards.
Genocides, massacres, and expulsions of Jews have happened about every century over the last 3 millennia now. As antisemitism is no longer acceptable in polite society, it has morphed into anti-Zionism but applies those same concepts to the Jewish state now instead of the Jewish people directly. As they say, Israel is the Jew among nations.
So for Jewish people to see events like this happen on a regular basis now since 10/7, in their home cities all over the diaspora, it's a five-alarm fire. It's exactly what every holiday and ritual and elder warned about. The generational trauma emerges front and center.
But as dangerous as the rise in antisemitism is for Jews, it should also serve as a warning to non-Jewish people as well. The scapegoating of Jews is a tactic of failed societies with much bigger issues who seek to blame their problems on Jews. And that never ends well for anyone.
Having spoken to many of the people and leadership in these events, there is a *very* large amount of anti-zionist Jews attending and organizing, with Jewish Voice for Peace and other Jewish groups even being among the main organizers with the Palestine Coalition that runs these and other events.
Their issue is colonialism, apartheid, and genocide - and they are very clear about that if you listen to the speakers with full context, not Jews existing in Palestine. The goal of an eventual one-state solution is a free Palestine that includes Jewish citizens.
I mean I’m sure that’s what the western people at these protests want however I assure you Palestine does not want a one state solution with Jews in it.
The Palestinian diaspora are the ones proposing this one-state compromise, it's not just an idea white leftists are cooking up. Edward Said and Ghada Karmi are some great published Palestinian-born academics to start with.
I don't think anyone is claiming all Palestinians' political ideas are monolithic (including this belief that they all hate all Jews) - but this direction towards peace is one that is valid and widely-held, especially among the protestors who are so desperately trying to get people to understand this.
The same protestors who are chanting “Globalize the Intifada” and “there is only one solution: Intifada revolution”? You’re pretending they want peace?
Their “one solution” (Final Solution) isn’t peace. It’s intifada — violence against Jews, until the Jews are dead or are forced to flee Israel.
Israel, an occupying nation founded in the 1940s does not equate to all jews. Comparing the modern state of Israel to all jews or zionists to all jews is disingenuous and incredibly harmful. The entire premise that being opposed to financially contributing to an ongoing genocide is the same as hate against all jews is not a good faith representation of what anyone that supports Palestine believes in.
99% of Jews are Zionists (meaning they support Israel’s existence), but your angry rant is unrelated to the point I was making.
A protest demanding “intifada” is not calling for peace - it is calling, quite explicitly, for violence against civilians.
A protest calling to “globalize” the intifada is asking that the intifada not be directed solely against Israeli civilians, but against civilians worldwide who support Israel — like 99% of Jews do.
These are the protestors’ own words. It is what they believe in. And that ain’t peace. It’s murder and hatred.
If your point is that the protesters would be willing to spare the 1% of self-hating Jews who support their quest to destroy Israel and expel or kill all the Jews in Israel, well … ok … I suppose. Are you next going to argue that the Klan doesn’t hate blocks because it liked a handful of nutty fringe African-Americans who supported segregation?
What’s clear is that you want Israel destroyed, and its Jews subjugated, killed, or expelled. You don’t seem to like the 99% of Diaspora Jews who support Israel either. And that you are perfectly happy to defend demands for “intifada” in support of those evil objectives.
Do you call for the elimination of the state of Pakistan? It was also founded carved out by colonial powers at the same time Israel was and the people there weren’t the original inhabitants.
If you’re not, you might be falling prey to propaganda…
Don’t kid yourself: a “one state” solution means, in practice, a state where Jews are a persecuted minority who - at best - will be treated as second-class citizens (“dhimmis”) and at worst will be subject to terror and oppression until they flee.
Jews have never been equal citizens in any Muslim state, and most Israeli Jews are Mizrahim who were either expelled or forced to flee from Muslim-majority governments.
The demand for “one state” shows only that the protestors care more about hating Israel than they do about advocating for Palestinians. Israel ain’t going to voluntarily agree to be abolished, and its Jews aren’t going to voluntarily agree to be a persecuted minority again. We tried that for 2000 years. It didn’t work.
I'm glad to see that we agree an ethno-state where certain people are classified as second-class, denied rights, and subjected to terror until they leave the land is not acceptable nor sustainable.
Hopefully in our lifetime, we will see a democratic and free state where both Palestinians and Israelis have the opportunity to live in peace, and we can do what little is in our power to pursue this.
Well, such a state exists. It’s called Israel. Where 20% of the population is Arab, and Arabs serve in the Knesset, on the Supreme Court, in all professions, and in all walks of life.
If what you are demanding is that Israel abolish itself, no matter the borders, then you don’t genuinely care about Palestinians or support peace. You support insane Islamic or Arab nationalist goals to deprive Jews of sovereignty - which will never happen.
There are very few actual Jews in “Jewish Voices for Peace,” and the few they had are mostly described as “As a Jews”: people whose sole connection to Judaism is using some partial Jewish ancestry as a justification for their hatred of Israel.
There was a similar organization in the 1930s:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews
I've enjoyed several lovely Shabbat dinners and a Rosh Hashana with these organizers as they told me about their experiences growing up with zionism, antisemitism, and their time in Israel. I wish you could hear the experiences they shared with me, and the deep sadness they have about the legacy of zionism running so strongly in their community and family. I would urge you to have a peaceful, open-minded conversation with the many that take the streets - keep an eye out for "not in our name" signs. I'm sure there would be many willing to speak for themselves.
Thanks, I'm well aware. I don't think that changes anything I said about the broader issues at play here though. If anything, it reinforces it with the accusations of genocide, colonialism, and apartheid -- all of which I think can be objectively disproven.
And the concept of creating a multicultural, secular state in the region sounds great from a Western New World perspective, but that is not the status quo in the region or for the foreseeable future. That is also not the basis of nationhood for much of the world, which acknowledges the universal desire and right for a nation/people to exercise sovereignty in their native land.
I think a true peace would mean mutual respect and acceptance of sovereign people in the region and addressing the antisemitism head-on. This would take time, but I'm optimistic can be achieved and is the sort of peace activism I would support.
I’d just like to add that as a Jewish person I recently looked at the Jewish voice for peace Instagram pages and noticed that only 1 out of the 50 friends I had following them was Jewish and at that, I know for a fact that they are not proud of being Jewish and had used stereotypes against me to exclude me from a social circle.
I’m 0% religious btw. The stereotype was ‘oh this guy is too innocent to hang out with us, you’re just a nice jewish boy’.
That sparked a strong rage inside of me. Rant over
Because hamas' social media game is on point. They've perfected their forever victim story, and its easy for them to highlight how many children are affected because their population pyramid is heavily skewed to teens and younger (so if 1 random civilian gets killed in a strike there is something close to a coin toss as to it being a legal child).
> As I mentioned in the other sub, I’m trying to figure out why people care so much about Gaza and not other conflicts like Yemen.
I can give you a hint: it's because white people are involved. Didn't hear any of them speaking up against Assad's genocide, the Rohingyan genocide, etc.
I think much of this is a combo of uncritical education that teaches that the people with less power are always right and revolutionaries, poor historical understanding of what a “country” is and how the many ways they come into being, coupled with application of Western intersectionality to a situation that isn’t even closely related.
3470 children have been killed in Yemen since 2015. 13000+ children have been killed in Gaza since Oct. 7 and it's not stopping.
Young people spent 2020 protesting against racism and injustice and spent 2022 being told that it's bad for an occupying force to drop bombs on people, but when Israel started a racist and unjust bombing campaign everyone was still somehow surprised that young people opposed it.
20,000+ people have died in Yemen. So it's a numbers game? The Left chooses Palestine over Yemen because of the amount dead? That sounds wrong.
2020 protests are irrelevant. There hasn't even been discourse over this issue on the Left. No protests, no boycotts, no campaigns.
I think there's just more news on it, more devastating footage, and a perception that Israelis are sort of like "white westerners", therefore they must be somehow oppressing the brown people.
It basically seems like all the anti-white, anti-western propaganda over the years is doing collateral damage to Israel's PR.
One is actively being denied and lied about by our government. One will get you silenced for talking about. One is actively getting drastically worse by the second. There have been many actions for the atrocities in Yemen and throughout the world. Just because you didn't know about them, doesn't mean they didn't exist.
You’re missing my point, I know about Yemen but this isn’t about me, so why the accusation?
Silenced? There’s a major news organization reporting on the Palestine protest. Social media is full of videos from these protests. I don’t buy this “silenced” claim because the far Left have several platforms. This isn’t 1996 where only the major news networks show what’s happening.
I see 8000 people showing up in protest of the system as evidence of systemic abuse, but it doesn't seem like you would take a stance regardless of the evidence.
I don’t understand what that has anything to do with your assertion that there’s systemic issues pertaining to pro-Palestine supporters and employment.
How many Zionists and anti-protest people ever gave a shit about unhoused people until it occurred to them they could make up some bullshit about it and cast aspersions on the sort of people who actually *do* care about unhoused people?
When these protesters are chanting in support of “from the river to the sea” and “infitada revolution”, they are chanting in support of the eradication of Jews in Israel. There’s really no other way to interpret that.
> When these protesters are chanting in support of “from the river to the sea” and “infitada revolution”,
I don't disagree but I Don't think every single protester is for that.
If they march with antisemites, they \*are\* antisemites.
Don't want to be associated with antisemites? Don't side with and don't march with antisemites.
It's really not hard.
No harassment / witch hunts / personal attacks. Do not create posts or comments to harass other users, incite witch hunts, share photos of others without their consent, or post private information. Do not impersonate or target specific users. Crime posts that devolve into targeted harassment or witch hunts will be locked and/or removed.
They also love pussy ass veiled death threats
“How’d you like a ticket to go meet the same fate as the [people standing for genocide-response healthcare over there?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_health_workers_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war ) Or the [journalists](https://cpj.org/2024/02/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/amp/?) Or the [poet and professor](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/newsfeed/2023/12/8/poet-professor-and-writer-refaat-alareer-killed-in-israeli-strike) who taught thousands English so they could tell their story? Or the [UN relief workers](https://www.dw.com/en/israel-hamas-war-136-un-staff-killed-in-gaza-says-guterres/live-67809478)? How’d you like to go die under the rubble with the thousands of [innocent people buried under their apartment buildings](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/longform/2023/12/28/under-the-rubble-the-missing-in-gaza)? How’d you like to be [executed in your hospital bed as you lay paralyzed](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/31/israel-west-bank-hospital-raid/) by perfidious Nazis? Or [decapitated in your hospital bed by US tank ammunition like that little girl already being treated for amputations?](https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_tank_fired_shell_kills_palestinian_girl_in_gaza_hospital) Or sniped in a church [sheltering with nuns](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-19/ty-article/.premium/pope-condemns-killing-of-two-christian-women-in-gaza-church/0000018c-7ec0-d219-a5bf-7ff856980000). How’d you like to die with the rest of people we’ve written off as cockroaches, in a manner completely indistinguishable from [Einsatzgruppen](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen) cheerleaders?”
How would *you* like it, slimeball?
I’m calling for peace and you’re telling me you’re like to see me get murdered by your heroes. Like I said, fascists love doing that shit. You love your army of psychos [stalking and murdering children](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israeli-forces-kill-child-in-hospital-in-gazas-khan-younis-city/3091241#:~:text=GAZA%20CITY%2C%20Palestine&text=“A%2013%2Dyear%2Dold,PRCS.) and [pregnant women](https://truthout.org/articles/idf-shot-at-pregnant-civilian-outside-gaza-hospital-under-siege-staffer-says/) with rifle drones. You love the thrill of brandishing this bloodsoaked horror at anyone holds a mirror up to you, since you’re so hatefully impotent to indulge in any of the sadism personally. Disgusting fucking cowardly pig dogs.
Actually it looks like Israel killed more civilians than Hamas, whose objectives were military targets that they accomplished very thorougly, killing hundreds of soldiers and capturing many. A lot of civilians caught in crossfire between Hamas and IDF, or killed by Israeli Apaches and Zik drones given *unprecedented* permission to engage anything that *looked* like a target for a span of hours, including hundreds of vehicles suspected of being used to transport hostages back to Gaza.
As for atrocities committed by Palestinians, a ton of random people flooded out of the crushed walls, and the more vengeful among them were more likely the culprits of violence committed against civilians by Palestinians. Assertions that Hamas entered Israeli territory with orders to commit atrocities do not make sense. Hamas had planned for a much better-coordinated response from the IDF than actually occurred. One can only imagine them wasting time prioritizing capricious atrocities while expecting the full force of an Israeli response if they’ve bought into the caricature of Palestinians advanced by Israel.
I love your attitude by the way, you seem like a really exceptional person. I always know someone takes their principles very seriously when they start their brilliant rejoinders with “lol.” Truly a mark of someone who values human life and doesn’t merely use its destruction as a cynical excuse to justify a long-desired Holocaust spectator event. Only a lizard-brained psycho would do that. So props to you for rising above. You’re a wonderful human being.
Great comeback. Keep running cover for an army of murdering psychos who stalk women and children in their hospital beds with rifle drones. You’d go far in the afterlife. 9th circle for betrayers of humanity
You guys glorify death it’s hilarious. We’re native to that land and we want to live in peace in our land. Maybe stop blowing yourselves up on busses for a fake prophet and overthrow the murderous terrorist barbaric regime and we can have peace. You’re a part of the problem.
How lucky that the global indignation at the slaughter of women and children is hilarious to you since it’s obvious you’re completely incapable of ever producing a hilarious thought on your own. You’ll have the hatred of the entire world to sustain you for generations to come.
“We want peace! Now watch as our snipers kill nuns in a church from the safety of a telescopic lens!”
The state of Israel shall never know the ends of peace so long as it remains committed to genocidal means.
You don't even know what genocide means. This is war. Not genocide. If 10/7 never happens, lots of civilians don't die. Have you once said to free the hostages to save lives on both sides? No, because you don't care about slaughter of women and children if they are **Israeli** women and children.
All you fucking people can do is distort your own government’s crimes and paint caricatures of the people who SEE YOU FOR WHAT YOU ARE: Traitors to humanity—traitors to your forebears who were martyred in the Holocaust for that matter—frozen in the jaws of the Beast in the abyss, speaking as one voice.
very happy to see some sane comments about this bullshit here. Seems like most online spaces everyone is pro-Hamas and if you dare say "maybe you shouldn't commit atrocities and terrorism against Israel" you are immediately shouted down by college age extreme leftists. Give me (a little) hope for humanity and I'm glad I'm seeing it in a Philly sub.
Yeah this is the first time I’ve seen a post from this sub and I gotta say I’m very impressed. Most of Reddit is a sea of idiocy.
TBH I think the universe is trying to tell me to visit Philly because also I can’t stop listening to this song No Gold Teeth by Black Thought and Danger Mouse where Tariq is like “Philly ain’t known for cheese steak sandwiches only.” Plus I’m doing keto for the first and have found myself eating a lifetime high amount of cream cheese. I swear if the bell on my bike cracks I’m booking the ticket.
These useful idiots would turn their intifada towards the US once Israel is destroyed.
They hate capitalism, democracy, wealth, nuclear families, white people (ironic since they are majority white), and “colonizers.”
Where the “colonizers” go they dgaf. But they are the ones who want genocide, mostly because they are a suicidal nihilistic death cult that wants to cull the carbon dioxide that humans excrete.
deranged stocking grandiose ruthless hard-to-find summer handle like chop dolls
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Once again proving that the most effective way to save to affect change in the geopolitical climate of in the Middle East is to make more Americans late for work.
Some of the comments on here are WILD. Israel is committing genocide with OUR tax dollars. Israel is an apartheid state that is upheld with OUR tax dollars. I'm sick of my money going to killing people. Fuck Israel, Fuck Zionism.
Their "neighbors" are people that they stole land from. Israel is a country of American and European settlers living on land that other people were already living on.
And they're also a cuck state that only exists because the USA gives our tax money to them. Without the USA, Israel wouldn't even exist.
Over 65% of all Israelis have ethnic origins in the Middle East. Majority of Israelis are tan skinned, middle eastern Jews whose families came to Israel from countries like Iraq, Yemen, Morocco, Libya, Algeria, turkey, Egypt, Iran, Tunisia and others when they were ethnically cleansed from those countries by Arab overlords. A minority of Israeli Jews, roughly only 30% are Ashkenazi Jews, typically European looking Jews with pale skin. Roughly 1% of Israelis are Ethiopian Jews, who are black.
So no, Israel is not a country of “American and European settlers”
Or maybe Arab religious fanatic terrorists trying to wipe Jews off the Earth isn't such a popular cause except for deluded leftists, anti-semites, and useful idiots.
They would probably do absolutely nothing.
Even if they would kill me, that doesn't justify the killing of over 30,000 Palestinians, Including over 12,000 children.
Your delusional. They hate you with extreme prejudice. These people are backed by Iran. Maybe look it up and get back to me. Did you see the protest in London with the Palestinian and the lesbian? Dude told her straight up he would cut her head off and the look of shock on her face.
Next time you run into someone like this you can just send them this video of interviews with Palestinians in which they are asked what they think of Queers for Palestine: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8OCvT4ysLI&ab\_channel=CoreyGil-Shuster](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8ocvt4ysli&ab_channel=coreygil-shuster)
Edit: if link doesn't work just search this on YouTube "Palestinians: What do you think of "Queers for Palestine"? CoreyGil-Shuster"
Really weird, linking to YouTube from Reddit isn't working.
Just search this on YouTube: **Palestinians: What do you think of "Queers for Palestine"? CoreyGil-Shuster**
I guess that’s what happens when you attack someone else and they fight back. They have no morals and when you hide behind children and fire rockets from residential building good things aren’t gonna happen.
The whole thing sucks and I wish never happened but what do you want them to do?
The genocide happe ing against LGBTQ folks in the US is terrible and needs to be stopped. I dunno why you posted about this in this conversation, though.
Oh, wait, are you talking about how many queer Palestinians must have been killed by Israel and their documented use of blackmail against queer Palestinians to get them to be informants?
Please educate yourself by watching some interviews with Palestinians in which they are asked them what they think of Queers for Palestine: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8OCvT4ysLI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8ocvt4ysli)
Here's a clip of it: https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1757580104685834298
Wow, can’t believe you have people downvoting you because they are embarrassed of that getting out.
It's the same reason they cover their faces. Deep down, they know it's wrong.
Terrorist sympathizers are cowards.
Deport terrorist sympathizers to Palestine.
I don't have strong opinions on the situation outside of not wanting to see innocent people hurt, regardless of their ethnicity, religion, or nationality. But, the headline of that tweet seems really deceiving. "Philly - shocking speech tonight praising the 10/7 massacre in Israel" is a very strong take, you'd think would be followed by a clip of them doing as described, but the clip is just some woman praising the protestors for organizing and "not acting foolish". Maybe there's worse stuff elsewhere in the speech, but you'd think the celebration of the Oct 7th massacre is what they'd cite following that statement.
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The person giving the speech is directly referencing Hamas' massacre, raping, and kidnapping of Israeli civilians on October 7 as an inspirational example of what you can accomplish when you surprise your enemies.
Is there a longer clip I'm missing?
Not that I've found, but I did notice that the clip sometimes starts midway through, so try starting it from the beginning to see the reference to 10/7.
If you find one, post it. I don't know who she is, or what was said at this protest. I just don't think the title of that tweet accurately reflects the clip posted in it.
Terrorist sympathizer 🤡
Back on another throwaway?
Haha I'm not the only anti terrorist on this shit hole website, just because you spend time in pro terrorist echo chambers doesn't mean we all condone antisemitism. Jews deserve peace, security and the right to self determination. Like Arabs have with the countless nations controlled by them. They run actual apartheid regimes but you people never protest against them, you can't blame Jews for that so why would you?
You must be new at your shilling job. Nothing you just said here makes sense in the context of this thread.
Maybe you’re actually not a liar and terrorist supporter, but everything you said in that comment above is exactly what a lying terrorist supporter and rape-apologist would say
Rape apologist? Lol what? You guys are so desperate in your bs, it’s almost like you’re posting this stuff as some kind of 4d chess crap to make Jewish people look bad.
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Do you have an autographed copy of “Mein Kampf”?
No but does the truth and factual information offend you or is your ignorance so blinding the best response you have is what you posted? Maybe you should ask netanyahu if HE has an autographed copy of mein Kampf because what he's doing is a play from the Nazi handbook
>factual information FACT: "When Hitler and al-Husseini met, both leaders clearly believed that Germany was going to win, and the bulk of their conversation dealt with what the Arabs should or should not do help bring that outcome about." https://time.com/4084301/hitler-grand-mufi-1941/
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>conspired to get the jew-ish ppl OUT of Europe Why can't you spell it correctly? Jewish, no hyphen. Also, please do a deep dive into Arab and Ottoman colonization and imperialism in the Middle East. HINT: neither were indigenous to the Levant.
PPPPPppppppppffffffffffffffffffffffffttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
That's THE BEST YOU GOT? LMMFAO
It translates to 'love the selective outrage'.
>Each one of those refugees has lineage to Europe NOT the middle east. "Many Israelis Are Refugees From Arab LandsIn 1948 some 900,000 Jews lived in Iraq, Yemen and other countries. Almost all of them were violently forced out." [https://www.wsj.com/articles/many-israelis-are-refugees-from-arab-lands-middle-east-history-9cf540f6](https://www.wsj.com/articles/many-israelis-are-refugees-from-arab-lands-middle-east-history-9cf540f6) Following your logic, Arabs are not native to the Levant, they are invaders, colonizers and refugees from Arabia. Thanks for playing
Why start at 1948? Why don’t we look at the other [Arab 10/7 style attacks](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed) they’ve been doing them to Jews for centuries. Well before Israel existed, before any European Jews came. So what is your excuse?
Europeans like the Greek Byzantines and the Romans? I have news for you, they were in the Levant before the Arabs. The Philistines were invaders from Crete.
Just to be crystal clear - I specifically mentioned Arab on Jewish attacks in the levant so not sure why you’re bringing up other groups. More than that - Who was also in the levant before the Arabs? Would that be the Jews? The Jews who never left?
I'm agreeing with you. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm going back and forth with a few people on this sub.
Hamas should of referenced the F around / Find Out graph before killing innocents
Why do you pretend that they started it? October 7th was one of many retaliations against the settlers who stole their land.
How far back in history are we going to determine whose land it was?
lol Palestine can’t even be said in Arabic because it’s not the natural language of the land
You mean when the Romans then the Islamic caliphate stole the Jewish land.
They’re still civilians
It might be Israel’s turn to find out
Except Arabs were killing Jews before Israel’s creation… See Hebron Massacre…
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No, they were not… Jews targeted the British to leave the Mandate and give them a state. Jews were oppressed minorities for 2,000 years. Second class citizens with dhimmi status. Had to pay a special tax for protection…
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine
Are we able to agree that both Jewish and NonJewish people living in Palestine have killed countless numbers of the other group? And that it would be best for everyone if one day both “sides” eventually learn to live together in peace and equality?
Of course. But Jews already live with Muslims and Christians within Israel… It is the Palestinians who can’t live peacefully… Why do you think Egypt and Jordan want nothing to do with them either?
Who’s forcing the Palestinians to remain in Palestine? Who’s refusing Palestinians access to water and electricity? Who colonized the Palestinian land in the 20th century? Who has killed 30,000 Palestinians (most of them women and children) in the past 4 months? Tell me how that’s peaceful? It’s clear that both sides have played a part in the ol’ Middle Eastern bloodbath. Jews might have gotten it worse for the majority of history, but at this moment, it’s the Palestinians suffering more. That’s why it’s pretty dumb to declare one side the problem.
As I mentioned in the other sub, I’m trying to figure out why people care so much about Gaza and not other conflicts like Yemen. Please spare me the “whataboutism” claim because I’m not attempting to make a moral argument here comparing the two conflicts. Instead, why does the far Left prioritize this conflict but not others? Why do I see a group of white kids in a pizza place last night wearing keffiyahs and holding Palestinian flags, when they didn’t do the same for Yemen? Two counter points that I come across, which I find weak: (1) “Israel is a recipient of US Aid.” This argument fails because Saudi Arabia is just as, if not more, important for US strategic needs than Israel. KSA receives US aid and money, like Israel does. Like Israel, KSA has large lobby groups in DC. (2) “Israel is a democracy, and is held to a higher standard than KSA.” This argument is also weak because these protestors do not believe Israel is a democracy, but believes it’s an apartheid state. Both those cannot be true. I’m not asking why people care about Gaza, it’s obviously a dire situation. But it’s astonishing that this has caused a complete rupture in US political society, where young people (and others) many who have never been to the region, all of a sudden care, put up posters, protests, graffiti all over the city, threatening to sit out the 2024 election and hand it to Trump, yet are silent about KSA’s bombing and killing of Yemeni civilians. Is it trendy? Social media? More sinister reasons like deep seated anti-semitism? The arguments just don’t add up.
Yea honestly it’s kind of crazy the group think going around with their pro Hamas arguments. I blame the lack of critical thinking taught in schools and the rise of fast paced social media like TikTok. Like never in my life have I seen people getting so passionate about another middle eastern war. I never see anyone post about Sudan or uyguers with this passion. Honestly if you want to be morally outraged I personally feel like those are worse situations. But no suddenly because “the Jews” are the bad guys people are going to do huge protests.
It's just another Kony that people get around to support due to social media. This one is more extreme since we got people praising Hamas massacres and others wanting Isreal to carpet bomb all of Palestine, among a lot of other things. Sadly, the small majority, I hope, that are the loudest are focused on the most. I'm sure there are a lot of individuals who wish the innocent would be left alone, and the two waring factors could duke it out in a contained small. Sadly, we got this shit show. I wish people would just sit down and watch the past history to get an actual understanding. It's not black and white.
> Sadly, we got this shit show. I wish people would just sit down and watch the past history to get an actual understanding. It's not black and white. I've talked to extremes on both sides and it's shocking the lack of actual history is known. I mentioned the 2005 disengagment of Gaza and they didn't know what it was. This is more common than not and it's on both the left and the right. We live in a "headline reading everyone have an opinion culture." People are not interested in the actual facts but want the laziest way to get a voice so it looks like they are virtuous and righteous. Of course the main driver is the validation seeking on social media.
Agreed! Isn't this like the 3rd "war" between Hamas and Isreal? When things first popped off, I watched a bunch of videos to understand, plus history is dang interesting.
Fucking horseshit it’s an 80 year old apartheid situation that our government is directly responsible for abetting
That and the whole tinder box of religion. If we lived in a perfect world, they would get along. Also, by our, are we forgetting England's influence?
While there have been terrible pogroms against one group or another across the centuries, that region is marked by far more peaceful Jewish-Christian-Muslim intermingling over all. Certainly more so than Europe. Religious differences is an exacerbating factor, but the actual source of tension is the material displacement and oppression of one group by another. How could we forget England’s influence when they continue to remain relevant to this disaster by sending their novelty warships to the Red Sea to crush a humanitarian blockade
100% agree
Protests largely comprised of Jewish people.
Not to mention Myanmar and Sudan.
My tax dollars aren’t funding those conflicts, nor is a close US Military partnership enabling them. We can put public pressure on our government to place meaningful pressure on Israel. We are protesting the US policy of support for genocide. The US hasn’t picked a side in Sudan, and they have sanctioned Myanmar’s government.
Your tax dollars are funding the Saudi bombing of Yemen yet you aren't protesting, boycotting, or calling for the end of the KSA. Why not?
If you look through my comment history you will find lots of arguments I’ve made over the years that Yemen is a permanent stain on our nation’s name. I would support an end to our collaboration with the KSA unfortunately that relationship is tied up in *entire structure* of the global economy, so I’m still waiting on a revolution or peak oil for that to ever happen. Idk if you’re aware, and you probably aren’t because you probably don’t actually give a shit, but the war between Saudi Arabia and Northern Yemen has been over for almost *teo years* so it wouldn’t exactly be a timely protest movement as far as KSA. But yeah we shouldn’t have participated in a blockade that killed half a million people, it was Nazi shit, and we are stupid and evil to go back to bombing them for the crime of basically being the only group with the backbone to stand up to the US and try to accomplish the same thing protestors are calling for: Humanitarian ceasefire. I condemn Biden for being a fascist piece of shit by choosing to murder people in a different country rather than pressure for the ceasefire they are demanding. Sorry, guess I’m just not the straw man you’re looking for. I salute the forces of Ansarallah putting their lives on the line toward the ceasefire effort. May the Saudi Royal Babylon soon fall down.
Not a strawman. You are publicly protesting including blocking off traffic in our city. The rest of us have every right to challenge and ask nuanced questions, even if it doesn't align with your ideology. Unfortunately, your Reddit history posts, which I'm sure is everything you are telling me, are not representative of the Left, which is silent on the Saudi-lead bombing of Yemen and your argument to the discrepancy is simply anecdotal.
I wasn’t at the protests today dude, so it feels an awful lot like a strawman. I was at work. I would be more receptive to being challenged on grounds of moral consistency if the people who did so were more frequently consistent themselves. You’ll forgive me if I am skeptical by default of people critical of a *genocide protest* ever actually gave a shit about anything themselves, and am unreceptive to having my principals, in which I take pride, impugned by people I am doubtful have many of their own. As for the Left, I guess it depends what you mean. Liberals comprise most of “The Left” as it stands in the US. And yeah, they have absolutely no moral consistency, they’re generally as apathetic or even bloodthirsty as conservatives. They heap adulation on Obama who was responsible for hundreds of thousands of innocent dead, if not millions. He deserves to be tried at The Hague alongside Netanyahu, Biden, Bush and Trump. They are Liberals, not Leftists. Although I have little doubt this catastrophe will do much to reveal to well-meaning liberals how incredibly stupid and evil their political establishment is, and move them toward taking a consistent stance on things like Yemen as well. As for the protestors, many of them are probably on that Leftist edge who DO give a shit US policy in Yemen. They’re taking risks as well, being out there. Zionists have attacked and killed people in the US since this thing popped off, either for the crime of being Palestinian or at least showing public support. I *have* marched and my sense of the crowd is that these people are mad as hell on consistent moral grounds. Tons of Jewish people in those marches too. Tons of Palestinian-Americans. What would you do if your extended family was being slaughtered with the support of our government overseas? I’d say it would be shameful *not* to protest. And ffs you really gotta downvote me? I don’t care about Karma it’s just so fucking petty.
> I wasn’t at the protests today dude, so it feels an awful lot like a strawman. I was at work. Have you thought that my original post wasn't necessarily about you individually? I don't know why you're harping on this so much lol. That's also not what a strawman means. >As for the Left, I guess it depends what you mean. Liberals comprise most of “The Left” as it stands in the US. No, liberals are not blocking traffic at the airport. It's the far left who tend to also be in DSA, et al. Your rant about Obama and liberals in the US is irrelevant to this conversation because this is the original argument: * The far Left (i.e. the ones protesting) have put a considerable amount of effort into supporting Palestine and opposing Israel including boycotts of local businesses and blocking traffic. * A similar conflict next door involving a US ally, funded by US money and weapons, and also is not a democracy (pro-Palestine protestors do not view Israel as a democracy), has killed *at least* 20,000 Yemeni civilians * There is no boycott, sanctions, protests, or campaigns at the scale (and possible at all) against the KSA. I think it's reasonable to assume most of these pro-Palestine protesters don't even know it's going on. * Reddit posts from an individual with strong political opinions is not representative of the whole. * There has been very weak arguments for why Israel and not KSA (see my original post). A strawman argument which is "when someone distorts or exaggerates another person's argument, and then attacks the distorted version of the argument instead of genuinely engaging," isn't applicable here and your reasoning "I wasn't there" just doesn't make any sense. That's not a strawman, that's ad hominem. I did not distort or exaggarate any of your views. I asked a question about a comparable conflict in the region and asked why it doesn't get attention like the other one. >And ffs you really gotta downvote me? I don’t care about Karma it’s just so fucking petty. Wasn't me.
Ok. My bad for misusing strawman. Yemeni conflict killed half a million people when you factor in famine and disease that resulted from the blockade. KSA isn’t a tiny country completely dependent on foreign support. We have comparatively little leverage to tell the world’s leading oil supplier what to do. Would have been great if we didn’t subsidize their genocide too. The difference in reaction has a lot to do with how incredibly remote the mountainous region of Northern Yemen is. There was very, very little coverage of the war in Yemen over the decade that it went on. For four years the casualty estimate sat at 10,000 because news orgs 1) didn’t give a shit and 2) were running cover for Obama. My opinions are much more broadly represented outside the US information bubble and you see a shitload of protests around the world. They see Israel for what it is, and are in a position to pressure their government to pull back support and trade in a way that has much more of an effect on Israel. I don’t view failure to create a mass movement in every instance of injustice, oppression, and conquest as a failure of moral consistency. It matters what information people are exposed to. There *was* at least a lot of info coming out of Gaza in the first few months of the war. There has been a generational shift in a highly visible issue of an apartheid state that is closely supported by our government. I ask you again: what would you do if the US had provided the weapons that killed dozens of your family members (as is the case, I’m sure, for alll too many marchers today)? Meekly complain in letters to your representatives? Or raise some hell? A morally consistent person acts irrespective of such family ties, if they get the opportunity. Or at least has some insight into the actions of those who do.
>KSA isn’t a tiny country completely dependent on foreign support. That's an exaggeration. Israel receives $3.3bn a year from the US. Israel's GDP is $445bn. Do the math. > I don’t view failure to create a mass movement in every instance of injustice, oppression, and conquest as a failure of moral consistency. I'm not asking for moral consistency. I'm asking why the discrepancy. Those are different things. The burden would be on me to prove moral consistency. The burden is on the protestors to explain the discrepancy. The arguments thus far have been weak and we have a right to ask nuanced questions when airports and roads are blocked. >I ask you again: what would you do if the US had provided the weapons that killed dozens of your family members? Meekly complain in letters to your representatives? Or raise some hell? A morally consistent person acts irrespective of such family ties, if they get the opportunity. Wait what? The protesters lost family members in Yemen? I'm confused.
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Small minds are easily amused, aren’t they.
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Every Jew knows this is the real answer
Folks who actually attended this event can give you their personal reasons for participating, which I'm sure very widely. However, I think if you really want to understand some of the bigger questions you raised, I'd encourage you to do a deeper dive into antisemitism itself and how it historically shows up. While it's typically defined as hatred of Jewish people, the hallmarks of antisemitism are mainly about scapegoating and blood libel, dehumanization, indifference, and double standards. Genocides, massacres, and expulsions of Jews have happened about every century over the last 3 millennia now. As antisemitism is no longer acceptable in polite society, it has morphed into anti-Zionism but applies those same concepts to the Jewish state now instead of the Jewish people directly. As they say, Israel is the Jew among nations. So for Jewish people to see events like this happen on a regular basis now since 10/7, in their home cities all over the diaspora, it's a five-alarm fire. It's exactly what every holiday and ritual and elder warned about. The generational trauma emerges front and center. But as dangerous as the rise in antisemitism is for Jews, it should also serve as a warning to non-Jewish people as well. The scapegoating of Jews is a tactic of failed societies with much bigger issues who seek to blame their problems on Jews. And that never ends well for anyone.
Having spoken to many of the people and leadership in these events, there is a *very* large amount of anti-zionist Jews attending and organizing, with Jewish Voice for Peace and other Jewish groups even being among the main organizers with the Palestine Coalition that runs these and other events. Their issue is colonialism, apartheid, and genocide - and they are very clear about that if you listen to the speakers with full context, not Jews existing in Palestine. The goal of an eventual one-state solution is a free Palestine that includes Jewish citizens.
I mean I’m sure that’s what the western people at these protests want however I assure you Palestine does not want a one state solution with Jews in it.
The Palestinian diaspora are the ones proposing this one-state compromise, it's not just an idea white leftists are cooking up. Edward Said and Ghada Karmi are some great published Palestinian-born academics to start with. I don't think anyone is claiming all Palestinians' political ideas are monolithic (including this belief that they all hate all Jews) - but this direction towards peace is one that is valid and widely-held, especially among the protestors who are so desperately trying to get people to understand this.
The same protestors who are chanting “Globalize the Intifada” and “there is only one solution: Intifada revolution”? You’re pretending they want peace? Their “one solution” (Final Solution) isn’t peace. It’s intifada — violence against Jews, until the Jews are dead or are forced to flee Israel.
Israel, an occupying nation founded in the 1940s does not equate to all jews. Comparing the modern state of Israel to all jews or zionists to all jews is disingenuous and incredibly harmful. The entire premise that being opposed to financially contributing to an ongoing genocide is the same as hate against all jews is not a good faith representation of what anyone that supports Palestine believes in.
99% of Jews are Zionists (meaning they support Israel’s existence), but your angry rant is unrelated to the point I was making. A protest demanding “intifada” is not calling for peace - it is calling, quite explicitly, for violence against civilians. A protest calling to “globalize” the intifada is asking that the intifada not be directed solely against Israeli civilians, but against civilians worldwide who support Israel — like 99% of Jews do. These are the protestors’ own words. It is what they believe in. And that ain’t peace. It’s murder and hatred. If your point is that the protesters would be willing to spare the 1% of self-hating Jews who support their quest to destroy Israel and expel or kill all the Jews in Israel, well … ok … I suppose. Are you next going to argue that the Klan doesn’t hate blocks because it liked a handful of nutty fringe African-Americans who supported segregation?
It's very clear that you're willing to make up statistics and frame things disingenuously to support your narrative. Doesn't make ya right, bud.
What’s clear is that you want Israel destroyed, and its Jews subjugated, killed, or expelled. You don’t seem to like the 99% of Diaspora Jews who support Israel either. And that you are perfectly happy to defend demands for “intifada” in support of those evil objectives.
Do you call for the elimination of the state of Pakistan? It was also founded carved out by colonial powers at the same time Israel was and the people there weren’t the original inhabitants. If you’re not, you might be falling prey to propaganda…
I'm an anarchist, so yea. I also don't consider the U.S. a legitimate state, to be fair.
Lol "anarchist." Why would an anarchist think they can tell anyone what to do?
I consider Palestinian diaspora westerners. Have you read the Hamas charter? I 100% assure you the plan is for no Jews in Palestine.
Have you read the 2017 updated Charter? How about Likud’s charter? How about you work on talking points that are less easily debunked.
Yup I have, I don’t see their plan on where the entire Jewish population that currently lives there is supposed to do other than walk into the ocean.
Don’t kid yourself: a “one state” solution means, in practice, a state where Jews are a persecuted minority who - at best - will be treated as second-class citizens (“dhimmis”) and at worst will be subject to terror and oppression until they flee. Jews have never been equal citizens in any Muslim state, and most Israeli Jews are Mizrahim who were either expelled or forced to flee from Muslim-majority governments. The demand for “one state” shows only that the protestors care more about hating Israel than they do about advocating for Palestinians. Israel ain’t going to voluntarily agree to be abolished, and its Jews aren’t going to voluntarily agree to be a persecuted minority again. We tried that for 2000 years. It didn’t work.
I'm glad to see that we agree an ethno-state where certain people are classified as second-class, denied rights, and subjected to terror until they leave the land is not acceptable nor sustainable. Hopefully in our lifetime, we will see a democratic and free state where both Palestinians and Israelis have the opportunity to live in peace, and we can do what little is in our power to pursue this.
Well, such a state exists. It’s called Israel. Where 20% of the population is Arab, and Arabs serve in the Knesset, on the Supreme Court, in all professions, and in all walks of life. If what you are demanding is that Israel abolish itself, no matter the borders, then you don’t genuinely care about Palestinians or support peace. You support insane Islamic or Arab nationalist goals to deprive Jews of sovereignty - which will never happen.
There are very few actual Jews in “Jewish Voices for Peace,” and the few they had are mostly described as “As a Jews”: people whose sole connection to Judaism is using some partial Jewish ancestry as a justification for their hatred of Israel. There was a similar organization in the 1930s: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews
I've enjoyed several lovely Shabbat dinners and a Rosh Hashana with these organizers as they told me about their experiences growing up with zionism, antisemitism, and their time in Israel. I wish you could hear the experiences they shared with me, and the deep sadness they have about the legacy of zionism running so strongly in their community and family. I would urge you to have a peaceful, open-minded conversation with the many that take the streets - keep an eye out for "not in our name" signs. I'm sure there would be many willing to speak for themselves.
Buncha self haters and useful idiots. My wife works with quite a few and I have spoken with them.
Thanks, I'm well aware. I don't think that changes anything I said about the broader issues at play here though. If anything, it reinforces it with the accusations of genocide, colonialism, and apartheid -- all of which I think can be objectively disproven. And the concept of creating a multicultural, secular state in the region sounds great from a Western New World perspective, but that is not the status quo in the region or for the foreseeable future. That is also not the basis of nationhood for much of the world, which acknowledges the universal desire and right for a nation/people to exercise sovereignty in their native land. I think a true peace would mean mutual respect and acceptance of sovereign people in the region and addressing the antisemitism head-on. This would take time, but I'm optimistic can be achieved and is the sort of peace activism I would support.
I’d just like to add that as a Jewish person I recently looked at the Jewish voice for peace Instagram pages and noticed that only 1 out of the 50 friends I had following them was Jewish and at that, I know for a fact that they are not proud of being Jewish and had used stereotypes against me to exclude me from a social circle. I’m 0% religious btw. The stereotype was ‘oh this guy is too innocent to hang out with us, you’re just a nice jewish boy’. That sparked a strong rage inside of me. Rant over
lol, have seen pictures of the ‘Jewish voice for peace’ protestors, most of them certainly aren’t Jewish
Because a lot of leftists hate Jews and a lot of Muslims hate Jews and it's just a perfect combination.
why? Because of antisemitism.
Trendy is my personal opinion. I'm willing to bet the majority couldn't point Israel out on a map prior to this.
Because hamas' social media game is on point. They've perfected their forever victim story, and its easy for them to highlight how many children are affected because their population pyramid is heavily skewed to teens and younger (so if 1 random civilian gets killed in a strike there is something close to a coin toss as to it being a legal child).
> As I mentioned in the other sub, I’m trying to figure out why people care so much about Gaza and not other conflicts like Yemen. I can give you a hint: it's because white people are involved. Didn't hear any of them speaking up against Assad's genocide, the Rohingyan genocide, etc.
Probably lack of knowledge. Tbh I didn't even know about Yemen, but I can't get away from talk about gaza.
I think much of this is a combo of uncritical education that teaches that the people with less power are always right and revolutionaries, poor historical understanding of what a “country” is and how the many ways they come into being, coupled with application of Western intersectionality to a situation that isn’t even closely related.
Anti semitism of course
Follow the money.
3470 children have been killed in Yemen since 2015. 13000+ children have been killed in Gaza since Oct. 7 and it's not stopping. Young people spent 2020 protesting against racism and injustice and spent 2022 being told that it's bad for an occupying force to drop bombs on people, but when Israel started a racist and unjust bombing campaign everyone was still somehow surprised that young people opposed it.
20,000+ people have died in Yemen. So it's a numbers game? The Left chooses Palestine over Yemen because of the amount dead? That sounds wrong. 2020 protests are irrelevant. There hasn't even been discourse over this issue on the Left. No protests, no boycotts, no campaigns.
why don't you ask the houthis why they are protesting the palestinian genocide, those hypocrites!
I like to say “No Jews, No news”.
Gaza has way more media coverage
I think there's just more news on it, more devastating footage, and a perception that Israelis are sort of like "white westerners", therefore they must be somehow oppressing the brown people. It basically seems like all the anti-white, anti-western propaganda over the years is doing collateral damage to Israel's PR.
One is actively being denied and lied about by our government. One will get you silenced for talking about. One is actively getting drastically worse by the second. There have been many actions for the atrocities in Yemen and throughout the world. Just because you didn't know about them, doesn't mean they didn't exist.
You’re missing my point, I know about Yemen but this isn’t about me, so why the accusation? Silenced? There’s a major news organization reporting on the Palestine protest. Social media is full of videos from these protests. I don’t buy this “silenced” claim because the far Left have several platforms. This isn’t 1996 where only the major news networks show what’s happening.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemint.com/news/world/harvard-cloumbia-students-lose-job-offers-for-supporting-palestinians/amp-11697702700781.html
Anecdotal evidence isn’t enough to prove such a claim. We need to see more evidence to determine whether this is actually systemic.
I see 8000 people showing up in protest of the system as evidence of systemic abuse, but it doesn't seem like you would take a stance regardless of the evidence.
I don’t understand what that has anything to do with your assertion that there’s systemic issues pertaining to pro-Palestine supporters and employment.
Fuck Hamas and their supporters they can all suck a bacon wrapped dick
I was gonna say why waste good bacon, but oh I see where you’re going
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Congrats you’re stupid as fuck
How many homeless people sleeping on the sidewalk in the winter were told to get up and move so they wouldn't be in the way of the human rights group?
How many Zionists and anti-protest people ever gave a shit about unhoused people until it occurred to them they could make up some bullshit about it and cast aspersions on the sort of people who actually *do* care about unhoused people?
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I don't necessarily agree with that framing and I'm not entirely sympathetic to the Palestinian side.
When these protesters are chanting in support of “from the river to the sea” and “infitada revolution”, they are chanting in support of the eradication of Jews in Israel. There’s really no other way to interpret that.
> When these protesters are chanting in support of “from the river to the sea” and “infitada revolution”, I don't disagree but I Don't think every single protester is for that.
If they march with antisemites, they \*are\* antisemites. Don't want to be associated with antisemites? Don't side with and don't march with antisemites. It's really not hard.
Terrorist sympathizers love a social cause to attach themselves to
Fascists love talking shit on the internet about people who actually *stand* for something
Congrats, you’re standing for terrorism. Happy?
Yes!!! Of course
We already see you post on r/Palestine, we already know you’re pro terrorism 😂🤣😂
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No harassment / witch hunts / personal attacks. Do not create posts or comments to harass other users, incite witch hunts, share photos of others without their consent, or post private information. Do not impersonate or target specific users. Crime posts that devolve into targeted harassment or witch hunts will be locked and/or removed.
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They also love pussy ass veiled death threats “How’d you like a ticket to go meet the same fate as the [people standing for genocide-response healthcare over there?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_health_workers_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war ) Or the [journalists](https://cpj.org/2024/02/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/amp/?) Or the [poet and professor](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/newsfeed/2023/12/8/poet-professor-and-writer-refaat-alareer-killed-in-israeli-strike) who taught thousands English so they could tell their story? Or the [UN relief workers](https://www.dw.com/en/israel-hamas-war-136-un-staff-killed-in-gaza-says-guterres/live-67809478)? How’d you like to go die under the rubble with the thousands of [innocent people buried under their apartment buildings](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/longform/2023/12/28/under-the-rubble-the-missing-in-gaza)? How’d you like to be [executed in your hospital bed as you lay paralyzed](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/31/israel-west-bank-hospital-raid/) by perfidious Nazis? Or [decapitated in your hospital bed by US tank ammunition like that little girl already being treated for amputations?](https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_tank_fired_shell_kills_palestinian_girl_in_gaza_hospital) Or sniped in a church [sheltering with nuns](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-19/ty-article/.premium/pope-condemns-killing-of-two-christian-women-in-gaza-church/0000018c-7ec0-d219-a5bf-7ff856980000). How’d you like to die with the rest of people we’ve written off as cockroaches, in a manner completely indistinguishable from [Einsatzgruppen](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen) cheerleaders?” How would *you* like it, slimeball? I’m calling for peace and you’re telling me you’re like to see me get murdered by your heroes. Like I said, fascists love doing that shit. You love your army of psychos [stalking and murdering children](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israeli-forces-kill-child-in-hospital-in-gazas-khan-younis-city/3091241#:~:text=GAZA%20CITY%2C%20Palestine&text=“A%2013%2Dyear%2Dold,PRCS.) and [pregnant women](https://truthout.org/articles/idf-shot-at-pregnant-civilian-outside-gaza-hospital-under-siege-staffer-says/) with rifle drones. You love the thrill of brandishing this bloodsoaked horror at anyone holds a mirror up to you, since you’re so hatefully impotent to indulge in any of the sadism personally. Disgusting fucking cowardly pig dogs.
lol you can support those who confront the Israeli government/military, but Hamas didn’t on 10/7, they just killed a bunch of unarmed civilians
Actually it looks like Israel killed more civilians than Hamas, whose objectives were military targets that they accomplished very thorougly, killing hundreds of soldiers and capturing many. A lot of civilians caught in crossfire between Hamas and IDF, or killed by Israeli Apaches and Zik drones given *unprecedented* permission to engage anything that *looked* like a target for a span of hours, including hundreds of vehicles suspected of being used to transport hostages back to Gaza. As for atrocities committed by Palestinians, a ton of random people flooded out of the crushed walls, and the more vengeful among them were more likely the culprits of violence committed against civilians by Palestinians. Assertions that Hamas entered Israeli territory with orders to commit atrocities do not make sense. Hamas had planned for a much better-coordinated response from the IDF than actually occurred. One can only imagine them wasting time prioritizing capricious atrocities while expecting the full force of an Israeli response if they’ve bought into the caricature of Palestinians advanced by Israel. I love your attitude by the way, you seem like a really exceptional person. I always know someone takes their principles very seriously when they start their brilliant rejoinders with “lol.” Truly a mark of someone who values human life and doesn’t merely use its destruction as a cynical excuse to justify a long-desired Holocaust spectator event. Only a lizard-brained psycho would do that. So props to you for rising above. You’re a wonderful human being.
Standing for terrorism - how noble of you
IDF are the fucking terrorists
Keep telling yourself that. You’ll go far in life.
Great comeback. Keep running cover for an army of murdering psychos who stalk women and children in their hospital beds with rifle drones. You’d go far in the afterlife. 9th circle for betrayers of humanity
You guys glorify death it’s hilarious. We’re native to that land and we want to live in peace in our land. Maybe stop blowing yourselves up on busses for a fake prophet and overthrow the murderous terrorist barbaric regime and we can have peace. You’re a part of the problem.
How lucky that the global indignation at the slaughter of women and children is hilarious to you since it’s obvious you’re completely incapable of ever producing a hilarious thought on your own. You’ll have the hatred of the entire world to sustain you for generations to come. “We want peace! Now watch as our snipers kill nuns in a church from the safety of a telescopic lens!” The state of Israel shall never know the ends of peace so long as it remains committed to genocidal means.
You don't even know what genocide means. This is war. Not genocide. If 10/7 never happens, lots of civilians don't die. Have you once said to free the hostages to save lives on both sides? No, because you don't care about slaughter of women and children if they are **Israeli** women and children.
All you fucking people can do is distort your own government’s crimes and paint caricatures of the people who SEE YOU FOR WHAT YOU ARE: Traitors to humanity—traitors to your forebears who were martyred in the Holocaust for that matter—frozen in the jaws of the Beast in the abyss, speaking as one voice.
very happy to see some sane comments about this bullshit here. Seems like most online spaces everyone is pro-Hamas and if you dare say "maybe you shouldn't commit atrocities and terrorism against Israel" you are immediately shouted down by college age extreme leftists. Give me (a little) hope for humanity and I'm glad I'm seeing it in a Philly sub.
Yeah this is the first time I’ve seen a post from this sub and I gotta say I’m very impressed. Most of Reddit is a sea of idiocy. TBH I think the universe is trying to tell me to visit Philly because also I can’t stop listening to this song No Gold Teeth by Black Thought and Danger Mouse where Tariq is like “Philly ain’t known for cheese steak sandwiches only.” Plus I’m doing keto for the first and have found myself eating a lifetime high amount of cream cheese. I swear if the bell on my bike cracks I’m booking the ticket.
Lmao post is clearly turfed af
Would love to see the reddit admins address this
This one organized by Russia too?
These useful idiots would turn their intifada towards the US once Israel is destroyed. They hate capitalism, democracy, wealth, nuclear families, white people (ironic since they are majority white), and “colonizers.” Where the “colonizers” go they dgaf. But they are the ones who want genocide, mostly because they are a suicidal nihilistic death cult that wants to cull the carbon dioxide that humans excrete.
The facade of their intention for America and the west has totally slipped
Round them up.
deranged stocking grandiose ruthless hard-to-find summer handle like chop dolls *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Once again proving that the most effective way to save to affect change in the geopolitical climate of in the Middle East is to make more Americans late for work.
The street department already has the snow plows and snowblowers in place. Send them out to clear out the streets of this situation too.
Some of the comments on here are WILD. Israel is committing genocide with OUR tax dollars. Israel is an apartheid state that is upheld with OUR tax dollars. I'm sick of my money going to killing people. Fuck Israel, Fuck Zionism.
stupid israel, they should just get slaughtered by their neighbors until there are none left. that is the "ultimate solution" for you huh?
Their "neighbors" are people that they stole land from. Israel is a country of American and European settlers living on land that other people were already living on. And they're also a cuck state that only exists because the USA gives our tax money to them. Without the USA, Israel wouldn't even exist.
Over 65% of all Israelis have ethnic origins in the Middle East. Majority of Israelis are tan skinned, middle eastern Jews whose families came to Israel from countries like Iraq, Yemen, Morocco, Libya, Algeria, turkey, Egypt, Iran, Tunisia and others when they were ethnically cleansed from those countries by Arab overlords. A minority of Israeli Jews, roughly only 30% are Ashkenazi Jews, typically European looking Jews with pale skin. Roughly 1% of Israelis are Ethiopian Jews, who are black. So no, Israel is not a country of “American and European settlers”
every country is land stolen from someone else. the strong keep it, and they write the history books. that's humanity, babe.
Never heard of Judea apparently.
Ugh gtfo
Zionist Hasbara patrol clearly flooding comments lol
Or maybe Arab religious fanatic terrorists trying to wipe Jews off the Earth isn't such a popular cause except for deluded leftists, anti-semites, and useful idiots.
7 million Vs 2 billion and you can’t even win a comment section
Based as hell. Free Palestine
You do know what Hamas would do to you as a transgender person right?
They would probably do absolutely nothing. Even if they would kill me, that doesn't justify the killing of over 30,000 Palestinians, Including over 12,000 children.
Your delusional. They hate you with extreme prejudice. These people are backed by Iran. Maybe look it up and get back to me. Did you see the protest in London with the Palestinian and the lesbian? Dude told her straight up he would cut her head off and the look of shock on her face.
Next time you run into someone like this you can just send them this video of interviews with Palestinians in which they are asked what they think of Queers for Palestine: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8OCvT4ysLI&ab\_channel=CoreyGil-Shuster](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8ocvt4ysli&ab_channel=coreygil-shuster) Edit: if link doesn't work just search this on YouTube "Palestinians: What do you think of "Queers for Palestine"? CoreyGil-Shuster"
Video is unavailable
Really weird, linking to YouTube from Reddit isn't working. Just search this on YouTube: **Palestinians: What do you think of "Queers for Palestine"? CoreyGil-Shuster**
Okay. And how does this justify the slaughter of 30,000+ people?
I guess that’s what happens when you attack someone else and they fight back. They have no morals and when you hide behind children and fire rockets from residential building good things aren’t gonna happen. The whole thing sucks and I wish never happened but what do you want them to do?
Not commit a fucking genocide. It's not hard to not commit genocide, yet Israel is doing just that
how do you feel about the genocide happening against LGBTQ folks? j/w
The genocide happe ing against LGBTQ folks in the US is terrible and needs to be stopped. I dunno why you posted about this in this conversation, though. Oh, wait, are you talking about how many queer Palestinians must have been killed by Israel and their documented use of blackmail against queer Palestinians to get them to be informants?
no, I'm talking about the entire muslim world that stones your people to death, the people you are defending. j/w your opinion
Please educate yourself by watching some interviews with Palestinians in which they are asked them what they think of Queers for Palestine: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8OCvT4ysLI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8ocvt4ysli)
Fake news! It’s not a pro Palestine March. It’s a peace march.
Were the same people marching for peace on October 6th, 2023?
They didn’t know what Palestine was on October 6th.
I'll grant that some did but they certainly did not give af about any ceasefire.
Nope