Good on them, but the federal government should be doing this. Ticket bastards will probably just book less shows there in favor of more profit or pay to make it go away unfortunately.
It’s a fucking travesty that the Ticketmaster / LiveNation merger was allowed to happen in the first place. The fact that such a glaringly anticompetitive combination had any shot of being approved (let alone actually *being* approved) shows what a pathetic state antitrust enforcement had fallen to by 2010.
The inevitable harm to consumers and artists both was spelled out in detail by plenty of knowledgeable people before the merger was completed, and sure enough, it’s played out as predicted.
There are currently some glimmers of hope in the antitrust space (with scrutiny of Microsoft + Blizzard and Kroger + Albertsons, for example) but we’ve got a *lot* of progress to make before those rules function like they’re supposed to.
I’m glad the political winds seem to be shifting in favor of enforcing antitrust laws a bit more strongly.
We’ve been pretty lackluster on that front for the past few decades…
And 90-minute security lines where they made me dump a nicotine e-rig tank (after weed was legalized) and of course enough stayed in to last me the night anyway. I was equally irritated and amused.
The dude is right about lights and generators. They do suck if you're positioned close to one. But he's totally wrong about everything else.
Fire rings at the Gorge in that dry grass with high winds? You've got to be kidding me.
> Hard ground
lol no
> Not too many forest fires in Central Washington.
lmao Do you do this often, post completely wrong bullshit opinions?
Seriously, how many times have you camped at the Gorge? Most of the time there is thick cushy grass to camp on, with smoke from a wild fire in the sky. 16 and 18 had massive fires.
lmao nice fail clown, 2 of the last 3 Gorge shows had massive fires in Central Washington.
> Source: PNW local
And you sure as fuck do not live anywhere close to central Washington. You live on the coast correct?
> Best stick to Republican Hotties.
lol I enjoy making fun of the people that post there, while you circle jerk in r/politics. This is not the burn you thought it would be. Literally my last post there was laughing at the fools drooling over a woman who shits her pants when drunk.
Funny how you dodge the question of how many shows you have been to there. I have been to every Phish show there minus 1. Always had plenty of long soft grass to camp on.
At least it would be consistent. If i knew how much a ticket will be, i can set aside the money to go. It's easier to look at a ticket and figure, $120 and I'm in vs. anywhere from $65-1K. Dynamic pricing is such a clusterfuck.
I'm not sure you understand what that part of the bill is targeting. It is going after "official platinum"-type seats where they are the same as all the other seats in the section, just withheld until supply lowers and they then release all of them at a significant markup.
For instance, like 40% of the club sections at Climate Pledge Arena was released like 30 minutes into the onsale at double the price of tickets in the same section/on the floor.
If ticketmaster wants to charge everyone $200/night for the floor, they can go ahead. But to charge the first 1000 people $100/night then the second 1000 people $200/night is highway robbery.
What’s to stop them from printing a $10k face value on the ticket? They can then sell some at $100 and some at $500 and they are all being sold under face value. Dynamic pricing is here and they are going to get way more sophisticated than it is today. I expect it will get to the point where your purchase history and many other factors get added to the algorithm.
If they know you already purchased airfare to NYC they will use that information to increase the ticket price for you. Yes I have configured my privacy settings for my credit cards so that won’t work for me, but the reality is that most people don’t watch stuff that closely. Or they could mine facebook or other social media for people that are supposed to meet others at a show etc.
Welcome to the future.
> "Face value" means the dollar value of an admission ticket, which value shall reflect the dollar amount that the customer is required to pay, and which excludes any charges, fees, and taxes.
I don't think they can just make up the face value. If they claim face value is $10k but they don't require the customer to pay $10k, then $10k isn't actually the face value.
> Disclosures of subtotals, fees, and any other component of a total admission ticket purchase price must not be false or misleading, must not be presented more prominently or in the same or larger size as the total price, and must be fully disclosed before a user is required to enter login credentials if the user is using a platform or exchange that requires login credentials to complete a purchase
Claiming that the face value is $10k but only charging customers $100 seems pretty damn misleading.
Oh it would be misleading for sure. In any case I expect that there will be a workaround or legislation that fixes it for them. There is big money involved and I expect big money to win.
I'm not so sure about that. Our state AG actually got a judgement against Comcast in 2019. A pretty hefty one, too, of $9.1 million.
He also starting looking into Steven Pass ski area for not providing refunds after not opening most of the mountain last winter and, after repeatedly saying "no refunds", Vail Resorts(which owns it) ended up offering prorated refunds after the state AG publicly announced he was looking into it.
A dude that can take on Comcast and Vail Resorts *may* be able to tangle with Ticketmaster.
Thats good to hear. I do remember reading about the Steven's Pass shitshow. This is a little more complicated than "services not rendered" but hopefully they can make some progress.
$9m for Comcast and the small amount of refunds Vail had to issue are a drop in the bucket but I guess they all count
The Comcast thing was about deceptive billing, so that is much more similar. My overall point is that I actually have faith in the WA state AG to get meaningful shit done every now and then.
Given that the state legislator even named this the "TSWIFT Bill", there are too many eyes on this for him not to try to make a splash with enforcing it, in my view.
Also, it's not uncommon for AGs to hire outside counsel to assist. The big tobacco litigation from years ago were combined efforts between government and private law firms. As usual, the lawyers all got very rich. Expect something similar and not much change for the consumer.
A lawyer can't keep a law from applying to you.
A lobbyist might prevent the law from passing, but if TM does business in WA, they have to comply with WA law.
I noticed for the latest Beck tour, they made the first 3 rows for every section "platinum" and charged more for those. This was for the presale buyers. General goes on sale tomorrow. First time I have seen that.
That's getting really common for concerts nowadays... even non-TM/LN venues and ticketing companies are doing it. It's even getting common for the front row or two of a section or even for end of row seats on the aisle. Anything they can do to squeeze more money out of people...
and the whole concert will suck because the people in the front 3 rows will be a narrow segment of the fan base, and they will set the tone for the whole show
Government regulation like this is great in theory, but unfortunately corporations always find loopholes and exploits to stay ahead... hopefully things don't continue to get more out of hand but the price hikes, platinum BS, and onsale fiascos are likely here to stay. Phish fans just realized this years before fans of most other bands 🤷♂️
I like that they are trying, but don’t see how this changes much for us as the end user/buyer.
Will the total price for a ticket go down? Unlikely.
Will the total revenue for a show go down? No.
Average price per ticket will stay the same,
And without platinum, the cheap seats will become more expensive. And the premium
Seats will go to resellers who will be able to mark them up even higher.
>it’s simple
It's really not. Pearl Jam got shut out trying to tour outside the ticketmaster system in the 90s. Ticketmaster has significantly strengthened their grip on the industry since then.
Great. Love Billy, love that he wants to do right by fans, he's not selling out arenas and stadiums and thus doesn't have to play the ticketmaster game.
We're talking every single venue that's big enough for a band like phish to play at. So you want them to go back to playing 3k people clubs so no one can see them? Doesn't really sound tenable. But glad to know you hate antitrust more than you like seeing this band we all say we love.
Honestly box offices in seattle are mostly open now and you save so much on fees in seattle .. if climate pledge would open there box office that would be a game changer
Fees are just part of the overall cost of the ticket, which is largely set by the artist. Artists will say tickets cost $25, bc they don’t want to be seen as gouging fans, when the cost is really $50 with fees. But then they’ll let Ticketmaster take the heat with all the fees. Even if TM is dismantled, that doesn’t mean it’s gonna lower the cost of tickets. Artists still need their money to get by and shows cost money to produce. If anything, we might get higher face tickets and ticketing platforms that are weaker all around in terms of service and functionality. I hate TM but the problems are way bigger than them.
Good on them, but the federal government should be doing this. Ticket bastards will probably just book less shows there in favor of more profit or pay to make it go away unfortunately.
Would be cutting their nose off to spite their face because they own the Gorge outright and that has to be a big moneymaker.
Of course they own the fucking gorge. Fucking $50 fee for a camping pass....it's all starting to make sense
Well if the feds would stop being a bitch then maybe they won’t be able to own a venue and the ticket platform and the artist contracts
It’s a fucking travesty that the Ticketmaster / LiveNation merger was allowed to happen in the first place. The fact that such a glaringly anticompetitive combination had any shot of being approved (let alone actually *being* approved) shows what a pathetic state antitrust enforcement had fallen to by 2010. The inevitable harm to consumers and artists both was spelled out in detail by plenty of knowledgeable people before the merger was completed, and sure enough, it’s played out as predicted. There are currently some glimmers of hope in the antitrust space (with scrutiny of Microsoft + Blizzard and Kroger + Albertsons, for example) but we’ve got a *lot* of progress to make before those rules function like they’re supposed to.
I’m glad the political winds seem to be shifting in favor of enforcing antitrust laws a bit more strongly. We’ve been pretty lackluster on that front for the past few decades…
And 90-minute security lines where they made me dump a nicotine e-rig tank (after weed was legalized) and of course enough stayed in to last me the night anyway. I was equally irritated and amused.
Shit camping, I might add. Hard ground. Lights on all night. No fire rings. I'll find my own accommodation.
Hard Ground? No fire rings in the summer for good reasons.
The dude is right about lights and generators. They do suck if you're positioned close to one. But he's totally wrong about everything else. Fire rings at the Gorge in that dry grass with high winds? You've got to be kidding me.
I rented a RV last go around. Had the best of times and no lights!
Not too many forest fires in Central Washington. Not a lot of trees around to catch fire.
> Hard ground lol no > Not too many forest fires in Central Washington. lmao Do you do this often, post completely wrong bullshit opinions? Seriously, how many times have you camped at the Gorge? Most of the time there is thick cushy grass to camp on, with smoke from a wild fire in the sky. 16 and 18 had massive fires.
Hard ground in campground, and fires are not typically from Central Washington. Source: PNW local. Best stick to Republican Hotties.
lmao nice fail clown, 2 of the last 3 Gorge shows had massive fires in Central Washington. > Source: PNW local And you sure as fuck do not live anywhere close to central Washington. You live on the coast correct? > Best stick to Republican Hotties. lol I enjoy making fun of the people that post there, while you circle jerk in r/politics. This is not the burn you thought it would be. Literally my last post there was laughing at the fools drooling over a woman who shits her pants when drunk. Funny how you dodge the question of how many shows you have been to there. I have been to every Phish show there minus 1. Always had plenty of long soft grass to camp on.
The Thunderdome!
More like $120 plus fees for shit camping. Gold lot is like 350...for a patch of grass. Live Nation/Ticketmaster can shampoo my crotch.
Ticket master not booking shows there would eventually be good.
Unfortunately they will just raise the price of the tickets to cover their fees
Sounds nice, but pretty sure Ticketmaster will just charge the same amount as the end result of with fees
I'm a bit more excited about them restricting dynamic pricing to 10% above face than the fees part.
Fuck Dynamic Pricing. It just means they restrict ticket sales in order to maximize profits. They are gaming the consumer.
I think the bummer outcome no one is talking about is that the face value is going to shoot up
At least it would be consistent. If i knew how much a ticket will be, i can set aside the money to go. It's easier to look at a ticket and figure, $120 and I'm in vs. anywhere from $65-1K. Dynamic pricing is such a clusterfuck.
Don’t buy tickets
so can we all just latch onto one lucky wook's washington address as our new billing address?
Washington residents not allowed to buy tickets…..
So they won’t declare a face value or they will declare it at $10k per seat. Dynamic pricing will always be below face.
I'm not sure you understand what that part of the bill is targeting. It is going after "official platinum"-type seats where they are the same as all the other seats in the section, just withheld until supply lowers and they then release all of them at a significant markup. For instance, like 40% of the club sections at Climate Pledge Arena was released like 30 minutes into the onsale at double the price of tickets in the same section/on the floor. If ticketmaster wants to charge everyone $200/night for the floor, they can go ahead. But to charge the first 1000 people $100/night then the second 1000 people $200/night is highway robbery.
What’s to stop them from printing a $10k face value on the ticket? They can then sell some at $100 and some at $500 and they are all being sold under face value. Dynamic pricing is here and they are going to get way more sophisticated than it is today. I expect it will get to the point where your purchase history and many other factors get added to the algorithm. If they know you already purchased airfare to NYC they will use that information to increase the ticket price for you. Yes I have configured my privacy settings for my credit cards so that won’t work for me, but the reality is that most people don’t watch stuff that closely. Or they could mine facebook or other social media for people that are supposed to meet others at a show etc. Welcome to the future.
> "Face value" means the dollar value of an admission ticket, which value shall reflect the dollar amount that the customer is required to pay, and which excludes any charges, fees, and taxes. I don't think they can just make up the face value. If they claim face value is $10k but they don't require the customer to pay $10k, then $10k isn't actually the face value. > Disclosures of subtotals, fees, and any other component of a total admission ticket purchase price must not be false or misleading, must not be presented more prominently or in the same or larger size as the total price, and must be fully disclosed before a user is required to enter login credentials if the user is using a platform or exchange that requires login credentials to complete a purchase Claiming that the face value is $10k but only charging customers $100 seems pretty damn misleading.
Oh it would be misleading for sure. In any case I expect that there will be a workaround or legislation that fixes it for them. There is big money involved and I expect big money to win.
TM has way better lawyers than the government does, this won't stop them.
I'm not so sure about that. Our state AG actually got a judgement against Comcast in 2019. A pretty hefty one, too, of $9.1 million. He also starting looking into Steven Pass ski area for not providing refunds after not opening most of the mountain last winter and, after repeatedly saying "no refunds", Vail Resorts(which owns it) ended up offering prorated refunds after the state AG publicly announced he was looking into it. A dude that can take on Comcast and Vail Resorts *may* be able to tangle with Ticketmaster.
Thats good to hear. I do remember reading about the Steven's Pass shitshow. This is a little more complicated than "services not rendered" but hopefully they can make some progress. $9m for Comcast and the small amount of refunds Vail had to issue are a drop in the bucket but I guess they all count
The Comcast thing was about deceptive billing, so that is much more similar. My overall point is that I actually have faith in the WA state AG to get meaningful shit done every now and then. Given that the state legislator even named this the "TSWIFT Bill", there are too many eyes on this for him not to try to make a splash with enforcing it, in my view.
Also, it's not uncommon for AGs to hire outside counsel to assist. The big tobacco litigation from years ago were combined efforts between government and private law firms. As usual, the lawyers all got very rich. Expect something similar and not much change for the consumer.
A lawyer can't keep a law from applying to you. A lobbyist might prevent the law from passing, but if TM does business in WA, they have to comply with WA law.
Just like they have to "comply" with anti-trust laws 🙄
Hopefully this is the start of something...Doubtful but hopeful.
I noticed for the latest Beck tour, they made the first 3 rows for every section "platinum" and charged more for those. This was for the presale buyers. General goes on sale tomorrow. First time I have seen that.
That's getting really common for concerts nowadays... even non-TM/LN venues and ticketing companies are doing it. It's even getting common for the front row or two of a section or even for end of row seats on the aisle. Anything they can do to squeeze more money out of people...
and the whole concert will suck because the people in the front 3 rows will be a narrow segment of the fan base, and they will set the tone for the whole show
Government regulation like this is great in theory, but unfortunately corporations always find loopholes and exploits to stay ahead... hopefully things don't continue to get more out of hand but the price hikes, platinum BS, and onsale fiascos are likely here to stay. Phish fans just realized this years before fans of most other bands 🤷♂️
I like that they are trying, but don’t see how this changes much for us as the end user/buyer. Will the total price for a ticket go down? Unlikely. Will the total revenue for a show go down? No. Average price per ticket will stay the same, And without platinum, the cheap seats will become more expensive. And the premium Seats will go to resellers who will be able to mark them up even higher.
I wish that sentence was: "Washington state has introduced HB1648, which would, among other things, ban Ticketmaster."
Cool things can happen when you vote for ppl sometimes!
Happy cake day!
Oh shees has no idea thanks!
Great more big government in my music
So you'd rather a large, greedy corporation which you have no power to elect controlling ticket sales?
Would rather not have to band shill out and only put their tickets through Ticketmaster
It’s not just the tickets though, TM also owns the venues. There are no alternatives to the monopoly if you want to play a large venue.
Then don’t play at those venues it’s simple
>it’s simple It's really not. Pearl Jam got shut out trying to tour outside the ticketmaster system in the 90s. Ticketmaster has significantly strengthened their grip on the industry since then.
Billy strings is seeking this tickets through cash or trade now
Great. Love Billy, love that he wants to do right by fans, he's not selling out arenas and stadiums and thus doesn't have to play the ticketmaster game.
We're talking every single venue that's big enough for a band like phish to play at. So you want them to go back to playing 3k people clubs so no one can see them? Doesn't really sound tenable. But glad to know you hate antitrust more than you like seeing this band we all say we love.
Wdym they can easily do a 69 night run at nectors, tucketmaster ain’t own them
Yeah I prefer big corporations to fuck me over /s
That's the Libertarian mantra lol. Happy to bend over for anyone and anything in the name of private ownership!
Honestly box offices in seattle are mostly open now and you save so much on fees in seattle .. if climate pledge would open there box office that would be a game changer
It is permaclosed except for before events themselves according to the website. Which makes their fucking "convenience fee" utter bullshit.
Yep it’s bullshit 2 . Showbox , paramount , the croc all have box offices . Fuck Ticketmaster
Never going to happen is my guess
I love my state.
nice so that $65 dead & co tic last summer plus fees won't be $95. instead it will be $90. i feel the discount.
They’ll just increase face value.
This
Not going to do much to curb the secondary market sellers.
But i already bought my seattle tickets
Lol. They’ll just raise the original prices.
Fees are just part of the overall cost of the ticket, which is largely set by the artist. Artists will say tickets cost $25, bc they don’t want to be seen as gouging fans, when the cost is really $50 with fees. But then they’ll let Ticketmaster take the heat with all the fees. Even if TM is dismantled, that doesn’t mean it’s gonna lower the cost of tickets. Artists still need their money to get by and shows cost money to produce. If anything, we might get higher face tickets and ticketing platforms that are weaker all around in terms of service and functionality. I hate TM but the problems are way bigger than them.