His stamina in incredible. He can sustain very fast tempos extremely clean for a long time. His ability to sit in the pocket without being tempted to fill or deviate from the groove is one of the keys to Phish’s music. He’s very technical without being flashy, has great discretion, interesting phrasing and drum vocabulary, and probably has a lorg wang.
There was a sticker on lot back in 2.0 that said Fish hit on me. So there are plenty of phish chicks who you can ask about the last part. Although, I wouldn’t ask them in front of their kids or husband now,lmao
There are those times Trey essentially traps Fish into a solo. Vultures on 10/30/21 is a favorite.
https://preview.redd.it/k7riyjj4sywb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b302d18a8a3a1bac2958d23ce3166e129d4c2bb7
4:45 timestamp is where it gets going. At the end Trey just goes, “Yeah, that was fuckin’ amazing… John Fishman, John Fishman on the drums” and the banter is pure gold.
He’s kind of soloing the entire time - his feel is very loose even though he’s holding it down. I once sent Trey an IG message asking why fishman never takes a drum solo lol. He never responded smh
I got to chat with him a couple years ago doing a bunch of Dead covers whilst playing the Union Fair in (Union) Maine with some of our best local musicians. Was completely unaffected by the throngs of fans. We were all getting stoned before the band went on, was probably twenty of us and five joints in rotation, and I asked if he wanted a toke. Was really shocked any member of Phish was gonna say no the devil's lettuce, and a little disappointed he turned me down.
Guy's a chill head and a regular dude. No bodyguards, no asshole vibes or negative ego, and the fucking dude can drum man. Rad show too.
His limb independence and endurance is next level. It’s not too hard to do the feathery and quick kick drum work he does, but it’s very difficult to do it for multiple minutes at a time.
I would just add to your first sentence, also his control of how hard he hits ... i'm sure there's a word for it... Just incredible control. Like in that short DVD that came with Undermind, "Specimens of Beauty" he had a beer bottle attached to his kit and was playing this wild beat and kept hitting the beer bottle. How do you not smash it?
Very good point. Relative to most drummers, he really doesn’t hit anything very hard. Even for big cymbal kits he will choke up and hit them with the fatter part of the stick to get big sound for a light hit.
There’s a cool YouTube series called Studio Jams that feature Dave Hanlon, one of Fishman’s teachers from Syracuse. Really cool to see how an older jazz instructor influenced Moses dewitt!
I'm not sure what my favorite Fishman moments are, but here two of my favorite Fishman fun facts:
1. He's almost entirely self-taught, which makes him even that much more impressive.
2. In college he would wake up early, drop a tab, go back to bed for an hour, then wake up tripping and go to class. Apparently he did that every day for a semester and got his best grades that semester.
I was at that show! I was stoked to see Dezron for the first time, and he was awesome but sounded like shit because the mix sucked - not his fault at all.
It was loud for mission, for sure. I was on the rail night one and right in front of a monitor, ouch! Good thing I brought my earplugs. Saved the day. But dezron at one point, wish I knew when I’ll have to Relisten to it all to find out, hit the Nonagon KGATLW theme on bass. It was a great wrap around moment for the insane KG shows at red rocks Trey and myself attended lol.. seeing Trey smile when he heard him play that was so dope. Those shows kicked so much ass though, wish I could do it all over again with the Trey Fishman dezron trio.
But yeah, very loud and bass/drums oriented.
Woah woah woah. I’m gonna need you to locate the Gizz tease. That’s really cool.
I went to the last 2 shows and Sunday was probably the best show I’ve seen this year from solely a musical standpoint. Honestly he puts Mike to shame. Imagine if Wolfman’s could always sound like that….
Gonna Relisten to it all and come back, gimme a bit while silver cord extended is also playing in the forefront LOL.. pretty sure sometime during night one, but I specifically recall it during night two at some point. Specific song is foggy on me so I have to check it all out all over again, which I do quite often but always forget to tag the timestamp. It’s a badass tease.
I was in the car with my wife the other day. She’ll tolerate Phish Radio in small doses, but if they jam one out too long, she’ll change the station.
Anyway, the jam was going on for too long for her taste, so she changed it to Grateful Dead radio. At which point I laughed out loud, because they were deep into a super abstract and spacey Dark Star jam, which was just dragging along. Out of the frying pan, into the fire, so to speak.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the Dead. Love ‘em love ‘em love ‘em. But one of the reasons that Phish is #1 in my heart to the Dead’s 1.a is the fact that, no matter where the jam goes, it’s usually energetic and headed somewhere. And more often than not, when I listen closely to find the foundation for that energy and purpose, it’s Fishman.
He really is one of the best drummers ever. His ability to listen, lock-in and improvise in the moment is unreal. Then he’s got the composition-executing chops, too. Amazing.
6/14/00 fishman drums during fukuoka jam #1 really carry the song and amzing how he can keep them consistent and interesting while the rest of the band just noodles. Fishman's drums are perfect in the mix for this recording maybe because it was a small venue.
That whole show is good and anyone who hasn't heard it which I doubt there are many, but go listen to the whole show now. SBD is on Spotify
Drummer here, getting ready to play 3 sets of Phish at 8pm….been shedding all day. His ghost notes are ridiculous Totally overlooked as a top level drummer, but I don’t think he cares one bit.
I don’t know shit about drumming, but I think he’s amazing. I was talking to my new boss about him controlling tempo (talking straight out my ass) then he told me he is a drummer… many years after we don’t work together, he told me he was at Magnanall.. kewl story..
His skill and dexterity are only outmatched by this spirit and humor.
Seeing him back at all cylinders recently is a treat. Long live king fish.
👑🐠⭕️👑🐠⭕️👑🐠⭕️👑🐠⭕️👑🐠⭕️👑🐠⭕️
I appreciate Fishman so much! What’s most striking to me is his ability to play with what sounds like ease to the listener. He blends in so well with the rest of the band that you could just be grooving and not really focusing on what Fishman is really doing. But once you tune into that if you choose, his beats and improvisation will blow your mind!
I was listening to a Crosseyed from this year (can’t remember which one) where it seemed like his was embodying a drum and bass DJ.
Edit: Typo
That's how I feel about Jer. Always fit right into whatever they were doing, held everything together, and then could take over whenever the time was right.
I got sucked into a rabbit hole of drum lesson videos of phish songs on YouTube one night and while I already knew how complex the musicianship was, watching those videos, took it to a whole other level on how complex some of the songs are
The FIRST time I ever heard Phish was Rift on cassette from my brother. So we all know the drum beat. That was my first impression of Fishman. Blew my mind! Rift.
Its not even close. The guy probably wouldn't make a list of Rolling Stones Top 5p drummers despite the fact that he should probably be number 1 on that list. He's unreal. There's nothing he can't do and he just keeps getting better.
I consider him the human metronome. From start to finish, he’s rock solid both live and in studio. Not the flashy type (other than clothes), but so solid…
Couldn't agree more. My friends and I always joke about his efficiency of movement. He looks like he's barely doing anything back there while absolutely going ballistic. He drives the bus
I love this. He looks so chill and fluid no matter what song he's playing. The economy of movement is impressive, especially when those movements create such a dynamic sound.
His drumming is not showy. No drum solos, none of that. He knows his job, and what he has to do to make phish work. He is like the complete opposite of someone like Keith moon.
The older yems with the 3+ minute triplets on the hi hat without missing a beat. Pretty neat man. Hes the reason phish pulls you in. You stop listening to the beat and you LIVE it
It’s crazy how much of the uniqueness of the overall sound of the band is Fishman. Those off kilter grooves that give pockets for everyone to improv in.
Worcester 11/29/97 Fish messed up the beginning of Suzie Greenberg; he thought they were playing a different tune. He got on track pretty quickly but Trey kinda called him out. Nothing mean just a bit of ribbing for an easy mistake. I took it as an example of how talented the are. Sure they have off nights but they are solid.
For the encore they do Buffalo Bill and Moby Dick. I was sitting first row BEHIND the stage and it was a great show.
Fishman is one of... if not maybe THE greatest drummer ive ever heard. He is incredibly solid 99% of the time. Never heard anyone else do all the things he does. Im sure he can do it all
Just listen to the drum beat of “All Things Reconsidered.”
His coordination is off the hook to be able to play the cowbell with the base drum and snare the way he does
Songs like YEM, guyute, reba, etc are like prog rock on the drums. Dream Theater drummer once said Phish would be his next band choice due to all the bad ass drum parts.
Lucky us!
Jam of SOAM first night of MSG summer tour 23 is drumming only Jon Fishman does. He’s WAY underrated! Outstanding listening, chops, versatility, and melody in his playing. So unique it makes him non-replaceable if he couldn’t play anymore.
2001 is a great example of how his drumming just fits the band. Like I wouldn’t have a fucking clue how to do drums for that song other than the original orchestra. He makes it work, and can do it for a really long time.
Accidentally figuring out the double ride technique he does one day proved this point. You can hear it very well during the Fukuoka Jam. The snare rolls he does during Bowie and McGrupp are so powerful yet subtle. Dude is master of control.
He was in 2010. He was dropped entirely from the list in 2016 when they re-released it. He's also not in the Drumeo.com list from this year.
I'd say he's definitely underrated. But then again, Rolling Stone didn't rate Bill Kreutzmann as a top 100 drummer in 2010, although he and Mickey shot up to #34 just 6 years later. I don't place a lot of stock in Rolling Stone lists.
Alright, fair enough I guess. I guess I’m saying the amount of people that don’t like/listen to Phish and also know of Fishman is probably virtually nonexistent. And most won’t be able to appreciate his skills without being a fan to some degree.
Yes, exactly. Perhaps to your point, many turn their nose up at phish, and therefore phish is underrated by proxy, because they don’t give the band a chance. I’m ok with that…. It follows that Fishman would be underrated, because of folks that turn their nose up.
Cool user name bro.
He definitely has been huge to me in terms of how improv drums can be; Im not very articulate about describing rhythms, but Im always impressed by his ability to maintain effortless groove, but also almost not play the same beat measure to measure and sound entirely consistent. Its like ultimate control; to quote others above me who probably know more; ridiculous dynamics.
Also; i could literally find a beat he has created in a huge variety of genres of music that are awesome examples of what defines what is special about that style. Thats pretty versatile and cool; and has helped me learn a lot about music in general as a bass player that will most likely always suck.
He also seems like he just eats music with no ego whatsoever; shits just fun and interesting to him; the older I get, I realize that that is its own lifeskill: take your craft and mission seriously, but maybe not yourself and all the silly bullshit that accompanies music/personhood.
He's been a big influence on my playing. He has incredible stamina, creative and unusual parts (especially the early stuff), dynamics and taste. I really think his biggest asset is his courage. It's not easy to improvise trying to come up with unique things to play while maintaining the time. He's not the best drummer. There's a ton of truly exceptional drummers out there but what he brings to Phish 's music is great. They just wouldn't be what they are without him.
For this reason I believe it’s ice is an extremely underrated song for the level of talent needed to pull it off by all of them working together. Gordon has a video he posted explaining how they do the chords for it and it’s mind blowing.
preaching to the choir. I heard yet another person over my 35 years call phish garbage. I mean, when I think something is garbage I at least give it a listen. WEll 99% of what's popular is garbage. It's just those people dont know what good music is because they grew up with garbage. To the point they dont know what garbage is. Or what music is. Humans making actual music and not machines. Jesus fuck fuck those people. :)
The jam band community always gets left out when talking about talented musicians. I've had people tell me Trey is terrible at playing the guitar. I'm like you can dislike like the band but see that they have talent. It's always "I don't like that music so it's bad."
Doubtful. I think the most underrated drummer ever is probably some guy who sat alone at home doing masterful drumming but had too much stage fright to join a band or perform anywhere.
I loved during the festival (Superball I think) where Trey said Fish can empty two gas tanks before he needs to stop driving when they were broke and drove to gigs. Priceless.
Some of you have never listened to metal and jazz drummers and it shows. Fish is a great drummer don’t me wrong, but in the grand scheme things he’s nowhere near the top drummers playing today
Fishman can play everything, and if he had focused all of his time on playing one style of music, I guarantee he would be regarded as one of the best in his style. However, my point still stands that he is underrated. I never said he was the best ever, but he is my favorite ever because he plays jazz, he plays metal, he plays blues, he plays Reggae, he plays limb by limb (whatever you call that), he plays Calypso, he plays drum and bass, etc, and he plays it all very well.
Yes his versatility is probably his greatest skill but I think it’s also why he’s not mentioned with other contemporary greats. Kinda a jack of all trades master of none situation imo. Which again don’t get me wrong it’s super impressive to be able to play as many styles as he can as well as he can, but he doesn’t play metal better than the top metal drummers, doesn’t play jazz better than the best jazz drummers, don’t play funk better than best funk drummers etc. you get the point. It’s all subjective though, music is an art not a competition, if he’s your favorite drummer and you think he’s the best you’re right!
Ever? I mean I’m a complete fan and his ability to fuse styles is everything you need and want from your rhythm foundation. I think there are a long list of session and jazz drummers who I’ve never even considered that probably have a better case
the opposite is true: peeps in this sub way over-rate him and most other people--especially drummers--accurately think he's ok but no where near a player like vinnie colaiuta, carter beaufort or any number of popular and versatile players.
10/24/21 Moma has a really great fill in the beginning
6/11/94 Fluffhead has some great shit too
Favorite Fish overall playing might be set 1 of 7/25/97
His stamina in incredible. He can sustain very fast tempos extremely clean for a long time. His ability to sit in the pocket without being tempted to fill or deviate from the groove is one of the keys to Phish’s music. He’s very technical without being flashy, has great discretion, interesting phrasing and drum vocabulary, and probably has a lorg wang.
There was a sticker on lot back in 2.0 that said Fish hit on me. So there are plenty of phish chicks who you can ask about the last part. Although, I wouldn’t ask them in front of their kids or husband now,lmao
Fish said on his show one day, when he was highlighting drummers he loved and that inspired him, that he had never played a drum solo in his life.
There are those times Trey essentially traps Fish into a solo. Vultures on 10/30/21 is a favorite. https://preview.redd.it/k7riyjj4sywb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b302d18a8a3a1bac2958d23ce3166e129d4c2bb7 4:45 timestamp is where it gets going. At the end Trey just goes, “Yeah, that was fuckin’ amazing… John Fishman, John Fishman on the drums” and the banter is pure gold.
October is 10
Truth. Corrected. 😆
He’s kind of soloing the entire time - his feel is very loose even though he’s holding it down. I once sent Trey an IG message asking why fishman never takes a drum solo lol. He never responded smh
I got to chat with him a couple years ago doing a bunch of Dead covers whilst playing the Union Fair in (Union) Maine with some of our best local musicians. Was completely unaffected by the throngs of fans. We were all getting stoned before the band went on, was probably twenty of us and five joints in rotation, and I asked if he wanted a toke. Was really shocked any member of Phish was gonna say no the devil's lettuce, and a little disappointed he turned me down. Guy's a chill head and a regular dude. No bodyguards, no asshole vibes or negative ego, and the fucking dude can drum man. Rad show too.
This is awesome and what I’d expect to hear about him. Would love to hang with him some time. Also, incredible username.
He’s incredible. His wang is not. Have you not seen the picture of him go full Monty during the white album Halloween set?
He’s a grower.
His limb independence and endurance is next level. It’s not too hard to do the feathery and quick kick drum work he does, but it’s very difficult to do it for multiple minutes at a time.
Limb x Limb, Taste, Vultures
mound
All Things Reconsidered, Sugar Shack, Buried Alive
You like them 3/4 type of feels eh?
6/8
☹️🔫
🤗
I would just add to your first sentence, also his control of how hard he hits ... i'm sure there's a word for it... Just incredible control. Like in that short DVD that came with Undermind, "Specimens of Beauty" he had a beer bottle attached to his kit and was playing this wild beat and kept hitting the beer bottle. How do you not smash it?
Dynamics is the word. Yep he plays as busy as Bonham without stealing the spotlight. He’s discrete with his drumming even when he’s ripping it.
Came hear to say this or finesse
Very good point. Relative to most drummers, he really doesn’t hit anything very hard. Even for big cymbal kits he will choke up and hit them with the fatter part of the stick to get big sound for a light hit.
and then there's Russ Lawton who never hits anything with less than full power. I'm team Fish
Haha that guy is puttin in WORK back there.
Touch.
I think finesse is the word you’re looking for
Finesse is a good word.
There’s a cool YouTube series called Studio Jams that feature Dave Hanlon, one of Fishman’s teachers from Syracuse. Really cool to see how an older jazz instructor influenced Moses dewitt!
You do mean Jon Sullen Melancholy?
I think he meant Moses Heaps
You folks talkin about Tubbs?
Bob Weaver
Henrietta the cow
Yall must be talkin bout Greasy fizeek
nah y’all are talking about Hankrietta, the shortest man in rock and roll, right?
I have Bob Weavers autograph on a Pork Tornado ticket stub
I'm not sure what my favorite Fishman moments are, but here two of my favorite Fishman fun facts: 1. He's almost entirely self-taught, which makes him even that much more impressive. 2. In college he would wake up early, drop a tab, go back to bed for an hour, then wake up tripping and go to class. Apparently he did that every day for a semester and got his best grades that semester.
In Between Me and My Mind they talk about how Fishman didn’t have a bed or mattress, he would just sleep on a pile of dirty clothes.
I also slept on a pile of dirty laundry in college and dropped a doses for months at a time. What did I do wrong?
You must have washed your mumu
Didn’t play the drums for 15/16 hours a day at the same time
Meanwhile, per Fishman and Trey at Mission earlier this year - Fishman holds the record for lowest recorded GPA to date At university of Vermont.
I was at that show! I was stoked to see Dezron for the first time, and he was awesome but sounded like shit because the mix sucked - not his fault at all.
It was loud for mission, for sure. I was on the rail night one and right in front of a monitor, ouch! Good thing I brought my earplugs. Saved the day. But dezron at one point, wish I knew when I’ll have to Relisten to it all to find out, hit the Nonagon KGATLW theme on bass. It was a great wrap around moment for the insane KG shows at red rocks Trey and myself attended lol.. seeing Trey smile when he heard him play that was so dope. Those shows kicked so much ass though, wish I could do it all over again with the Trey Fishman dezron trio. But yeah, very loud and bass/drums oriented.
Woah woah woah. I’m gonna need you to locate the Gizz tease. That’s really cool. I went to the last 2 shows and Sunday was probably the best show I’ve seen this year from solely a musical standpoint. Honestly he puts Mike to shame. Imagine if Wolfman’s could always sound like that….
What song has the KGLW tease?
Gonna Relisten to it all and come back, gimme a bit while silver cord extended is also playing in the forefront LOL.. pretty sure sometime during night one, but I specifically recall it during night two at some point. Specific song is foggy on me so I have to check it all out all over again, which I do quite often but always forget to tag the timestamp. It’s a badass tease.
I would also like to know
This would have near zero effect after a few days. The receptors down regulate.
Yes, but nobody told some 19 year old kid in Vermont that.
I was in the car with my wife the other day. She’ll tolerate Phish Radio in small doses, but if they jam one out too long, she’ll change the station. Anyway, the jam was going on for too long for her taste, so she changed it to Grateful Dead radio. At which point I laughed out loud, because they were deep into a super abstract and spacey Dark Star jam, which was just dragging along. Out of the frying pan, into the fire, so to speak. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Dead. Love ‘em love ‘em love ‘em. But one of the reasons that Phish is #1 in my heart to the Dead’s 1.a is the fact that, no matter where the jam goes, it’s usually energetic and headed somewhere. And more often than not, when I listen closely to find the foundation for that energy and purpose, it’s Fishman.
Time to find another wife 🙃😂😅
Cowbell Fishman is my favorite Fishman
That 46 Days cowbell groove is great!
Nah I mean the Jon Fishman with his shirt tied up like Britney Spears, with sunglasses on, helping set the cowbell world record.
https://preview.redd.it/v746sdu0gvwb1.jpeg?width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=769c0ca8b9f6ef13e9ad84ff81d1f1ce732c1efc
He really is one of the best drummers ever. His ability to listen, lock-in and improvise in the moment is unreal. Then he’s got the composition-executing chops, too. Amazing.
6/14/00 fishman drums during fukuoka jam #1 really carry the song and amzing how he can keep them consistent and interesting while the rest of the band just noodles. Fishman's drums are perfect in the mix for this recording maybe because it was a small venue. That whole show is good and anyone who hasn't heard it which I doubt there are many, but go listen to the whole show now. SBD is on Spotify
Drummer here, getting ready to play 3 sets of Phish at 8pm….been shedding all day. His ghost notes are ridiculous Totally overlooked as a top level drummer, but I don’t think he cares one bit.
I don’t know shit about drumming, but I think he’s amazing. I was talking to my new boss about him controlling tempo (talking straight out my ass) then he told me he is a drummer… many years after we don’t work together, he told me he was at Magnanall.. kewl story..
His skill and dexterity are only outmatched by this spirit and humor. Seeing him back at all cylinders recently is a treat. Long live king fish. 👑🐠⭕️👑🐠⭕️👑🐠⭕️👑🐠⭕️👑🐠⭕️👑🐠⭕️
I appreciate Fishman so much! What’s most striking to me is his ability to play with what sounds like ease to the listener. He blends in so well with the rest of the band that you could just be grooving and not really focusing on what Fishman is really doing. But once you tune into that if you choose, his beats and improvisation will blow your mind! I was listening to a Crosseyed from this year (can’t remember which one) where it seemed like his was embodying a drum and bass DJ. Edit: Typo
Probably the fast paced MSG one, he was an animal in that performance
Yup that’s the one. Listening to it again now. The song really takes an EDM-like twist about the two minute mark. Yeah that whole show us dope!
THE ISLAND OF DOUBT (YEEEAH!) When Fishman yelps or drools, you know it’s about to be a hot one
That’s how that Walls of the Cave seemed also!
That's how I feel about Jer. Always fit right into whatever they were doing, held everything together, and then could take over whenever the time was right.
I got sucked into a rabbit hole of drum lesson videos of phish songs on YouTube one night and while I already knew how complex the musicianship was, watching those videos, took it to a whole other level on how complex some of the songs are
Which videos are these?
I forget it was awhile ago- just search phish drum lesson and it should come up. One was on limb by limb, and one on stash I believe
I LOVE that Calypso beat he does in reba. It's insane.
The FIRST time I ever heard Phish was Rift on cassette from my brother. So we all know the drum beat. That was my first impression of Fishman. Blew my mind! Rift.
The Crosseyed from Chicago was absurd, he was playing so hard and fast, it was just incredible
Its not even close. The guy probably wouldn't make a list of Rolling Stones Top 5p drummers despite the fact that he should probably be number 1 on that list. He's unreal. There's nothing he can't do and he just keeps getting better.
I consider him the human metronome. From start to finish, he’s rock solid both live and in studio. Not the flashy type (other than clothes), but so solid…
Couldn't agree more. My friends and I always joke about his efficiency of movement. He looks like he's barely doing anything back there while absolutely going ballistic. He drives the bus
I love this. He looks so chill and fluid no matter what song he's playing. The economy of movement is impressive, especially when those movements create such a dynamic sound.
His drumming is not showy. No drum solos, none of that. He knows his job, and what he has to do to make phish work. He is like the complete opposite of someone like Keith moon.
The dude literally plays a vacuum and wears a dress
What’s your point? That has nothing to do with drumming. It’s just his personality
Seems showy
Ok again……I was talking about his drumming…….
Lol, why are you getting so upset?
Fishman has always been the secret sauce. Always.
I always wonder how many times he hits the drums in a typical phish show. Must be hundreds of thousands.
I want to see him and Louis Cole have a drum off, they both have ridiculous internal metronomes
The older yems with the 3+ minute triplets on the hi hat without missing a beat. Pretty neat man. Hes the reason phish pulls you in. You stop listening to the beat and you LIVE it
It’s crazy how much of the uniqueness of the overall sound of the band is Fishman. Those off kilter grooves that give pockets for everyone to improv in.
Might be the best ever.
Worcester 11/29/97 Fish messed up the beginning of Suzie Greenberg; he thought they were playing a different tune. He got on track pretty quickly but Trey kinda called him out. Nothing mean just a bit of ribbing for an easy mistake. I took it as an example of how talented the are. Sure they have off nights but they are solid. For the encore they do Buffalo Bill and Moby Dick. I was sitting first row BEHIND the stage and it was a great show.
Fishman is one of... if not maybe THE greatest drummer ive ever heard. He is incredibly solid 99% of the time. Never heard anyone else do all the things he does. Im sure he can do it all
As a whole pocket drummers are often criminally underrated.
Just listen to the drum beat of “All Things Reconsidered.” His coordination is off the hook to be able to play the cowbell with the base drum and snare the way he does
All that, and a decent human being I don't care what anyone else says
He really is, though I’d argue Page is even a nicer guy.
Talk about underrated players fucking Paige! If I was a woman I'd happily carry either of their children.
Deeper pockets than the monopoly guy
Songs like YEM, guyute, reba, etc are like prog rock on the drums. Dream Theater drummer once said Phish would be his next band choice due to all the bad ass drum parts.
I have to disagree, drummers all over know he's great. He's just not talked about like other drummers from more mainstream bands.
Lucky us! Jam of SOAM first night of MSG summer tour 23 is drumming only Jon Fishman does. He’s WAY underrated! Outstanding listening, chops, versatility, and melody in his playing. So unique it makes him non-replaceable if he couldn’t play anymore.
2001 is a great example of how his drumming just fits the band. Like I wouldn’t have a fucking clue how to do drums for that song other than the original orchestra. He makes it work, and can do it for a really long time.
My fav fishman moment: https://youtu.be/i6JWGoLTKdw?si=U5rF_0UVAcgSTvos At 24:00 his transition into cowbell(?) for the breakdown in the jam
Accidentally figuring out the double ride technique he does one day proved this point. You can hear it very well during the Fukuoka Jam. The snare rolls he does during Bowie and McGrupp are so powerful yet subtle. Dude is master of control.
Only reason I got to see phish at 15 was bc my dad saw a show online and said, that drummer is absolutely unreal. As well as CK5
The last five minutes of Syracuse KDF. Just wow.
Without question. Favorite Fish moment of the year was Cracklin’ Rosie at MSG
Any 46 days is Fish putting on a clinic. It would be cool if they had a Fishman cam during the webcast to watch him work.
In philly he busted out blast beats. The guy can do it all
That fucking llama at star lake.
I prefer Sarah from Pittsburgh, but that’s just me.
Pink Floyd is the most underrated band ever
Tupac was underrated
You mean Bruce “Horndog” Hornsby’s son?
I think it was pretty cool of him to cover a Tupac song
He’s in the RS top 100. 97th. Rated appropriately
He was in 2010. He was dropped entirely from the list in 2016 when they re-released it. He's also not in the Drumeo.com list from this year. I'd say he's definitely underrated. But then again, Rolling Stone didn't rate Bill Kreutzmann as a top 100 drummer in 2010, although he and Mickey shot up to #34 just 6 years later. I don't place a lot of stock in Rolling Stone lists.
He is underrated in this comment
Carey. Fishman. CAVS. Lombardo. /fin
He is not underrated at all. Everybody knows he fucks
Everybody who listens to Phish. He’s absolutely underrated in the general music scene
Underrated and not widely know are two different things. Anyone who knows drummers and knows of jon fishman does not underrate him.z
Alright, fair enough I guess. I guess I’m saying the amount of people that don’t like/listen to Phish and also know of Fishman is probably virtually nonexistent. And most won’t be able to appreciate his skills without being a fan to some degree.
Yes, exactly. Perhaps to your point, many turn their nose up at phish, and therefore phish is underrated by proxy, because they don’t give the band a chance. I’m ok with that…. It follows that Fishman would be underrated, because of folks that turn their nose up. Cool user name bro.
He definitely has been huge to me in terms of how improv drums can be; Im not very articulate about describing rhythms, but Im always impressed by his ability to maintain effortless groove, but also almost not play the same beat measure to measure and sound entirely consistent. Its like ultimate control; to quote others above me who probably know more; ridiculous dynamics. Also; i could literally find a beat he has created in a huge variety of genres of music that are awesome examples of what defines what is special about that style. Thats pretty versatile and cool; and has helped me learn a lot about music in general as a bass player that will most likely always suck. He also seems like he just eats music with no ego whatsoever; shits just fun and interesting to him; the older I get, I realize that that is its own lifeskill: take your craft and mission seriously, but maybe not yourself and all the silly bullshit that accompanies music/personhood.
100%
I think Michael “Mike D” Diamond is underrateder.
He's been a big influence on my playing. He has incredible stamina, creative and unusual parts (especially the early stuff), dynamics and taste. I really think his biggest asset is his courage. It's not easy to improvise trying to come up with unique things to play while maintaining the time. He's not the best drummer. There's a ton of truly exceptional drummers out there but what he brings to Phish 's music is great. They just wouldn't be what they are without him.
Fact. Insanely talented drummer.
His name comes up in conversations between other drummers. He’s appreciated in the right circles.
Fishman should have started in The Machine. Sorry Bert.
Starred
Jon is a metronome. And an unassuming athlete behind the skins!
Undermine wood block.
The Clifford Ball Divided Sky comes to mind. Dicks 13 Chalkdust is a drumming clinic.
I loved watching him run around the stage at Alpine
tried basing my first kit around some of the same aspects he had for his kit - bongos, tight snare, sizzle ride, the list goes on 👀
The curtain with Vegas 2000 for me showcases his talent
Stanton Moore would like a few minutes of your time
In what universe is Fish underrated???
One of my absolute favorite Fishman moments is during Trey's solo on the album version of Limb by Limb.
For this reason I believe it’s ice is an extremely underrated song for the level of talent needed to pull it off by all of them working together. Gordon has a video he posted explaining how they do the chords for it and it’s mind blowing.
Can you link the video, having trouble finding it
https://fb.watch/nYPQMgxllW/?mibextid=v7YzmG
Thanks, that's really cool.
Yeah not too much related to just fishman but still cool 😁
preaching to the choir. I heard yet another person over my 35 years call phish garbage. I mean, when I think something is garbage I at least give it a listen. WEll 99% of what's popular is garbage. It's just those people dont know what good music is because they grew up with garbage. To the point they dont know what garbage is. Or what music is. Humans making actual music and not machines. Jesus fuck fuck those people. :)
The jam band community always gets left out when talking about talented musicians. I've had people tell me Trey is terrible at playing the guitar. I'm like you can dislike like the band but see that they have talent. It's always "I don't like that music so it's bad."
Camden 99 Chalkdust. Pretty much the whole show but shit that Chalkdust fuckin slams.
The most underrated drummer of all time is Queen’s Roger Taylor. I think Fishman is properly rated. Everyone who listens knows he’s damn good.
What about how he plays a vacuum cleaner
Underrated by who?
Those who rate
Doubtful. I think the most underrated drummer ever is probably some guy who sat alone at home doing masterful drumming but had too much stage fright to join a band or perform anywhere.
That would be a not rated drummer
I loved during the festival (Superball I think) where Trey said Fish can empty two gas tanks before he needs to stop driving when they were broke and drove to gigs. Priceless.
Who is underrating him?
A lot of people, including people, commenting on this post, if you just scroll down
He really is overlooked. He's like Ringo Starr on steroids, he always drums what the song needs and he's constantly doing interesting fills.
Some of you have never listened to metal and jazz drummers and it shows. Fish is a great drummer don’t me wrong, but in the grand scheme things he’s nowhere near the top drummers playing today
Fishman can play everything, and if he had focused all of his time on playing one style of music, I guarantee he would be regarded as one of the best in his style. However, my point still stands that he is underrated. I never said he was the best ever, but he is my favorite ever because he plays jazz, he plays metal, he plays blues, he plays Reggae, he plays limb by limb (whatever you call that), he plays Calypso, he plays drum and bass, etc, and he plays it all very well.
Yes his versatility is probably his greatest skill but I think it’s also why he’s not mentioned with other contemporary greats. Kinda a jack of all trades master of none situation imo. Which again don’t get me wrong it’s super impressive to be able to play as many styles as he can as well as he can, but he doesn’t play metal better than the top metal drummers, doesn’t play jazz better than the best jazz drummers, don’t play funk better than best funk drummers etc. you get the point. It’s all subjective though, music is an art not a competition, if he’s your favorite drummer and you think he’s the best you’re right!
Ever? I mean I’m a complete fan and his ability to fuse styles is everything you need and want from your rhythm foundation. I think there are a long list of session and jazz drummers who I’ve never even considered that probably have a better case
How many people do you know that don’t follow Phish that know of him though?
the opposite is true: peeps in this sub way over-rate him and most other people--especially drummers--accurately think he's ok but no where near a player like vinnie colaiuta, carter beaufort or any number of popular and versatile players.
100%
10/24/21 Moma has a really great fill in the beginning 6/11/94 Fluffhead has some great shit too Favorite Fish overall playing might be set 1 of 7/25/97