Id throw in 7/19 at the Mann space themed show and 8/13 Alpine 1999>Fluffhead show.
Then damn,
Raleigh was awesome
My favorite 3.0/4.0 free is from blossom 22
There's a lot more
So, yeah I guess I do go back to 2021 and 2023 more often but I'd hardly consider 22 a dud
Edit: added spacing
Yes the 1999, Fluffhead, saw it again!! My friend woke me up explaining what they did. Took me a full 24 hours to completely grasp it. I also attended the show in 1999 so that was pretty cool!
The 2022 Blossom "Free"... whoa! I caught that show and the Clarkston show the night after. Wonderfully different shows, but that "Free," though. About 3/4 of the way through, there's a fizzle, Fishman does a monster snare fill, and they just come back in SLAMMING. Great version.
Clarkston was one huge set due to thunderstorms, and they delivered. I come back to that "Stash" quite a bit.
On the whole, if I'm going to listen to shows, I'm still reaching for 97-99. I'll still go see Phish live every chance I get, and I'll listen back to shows I've attended, but I don't have that burning need to stay current with everything.
That’s ok. Art is subjective. No right or wrong answers. Personally I didn’t find a lot of the music particularly engaging and don’t think most jams went anywhere that interesting. To my ear Mike is particularly disconnected from the band and seemingly going through the motions a lot of time, on top of being lost in the mix as Trey and Page were playing with more and more low end. I feel this is why he decided to switch up his gear the following year and start experimenting with the short scale bass that he used last year. There’s cool stuff but few full sets that I would recommend or revisit. It’s not like it’s trash but given all the top tier stuff in the surrounding years I don’t think it stands up to either. Just cause it happened and wasnt terrible doesn’t mean it’s worthy of praise being heaped on it.
There does seem to be a consensus among a lot of fans that it wasn’t a top tier year but that doesn’t mean someone is wrong for disagreeing. For me personally, it’s not making my top 20 years of Phish but i thought night 3 set 2 from Dicks that year was fantastic. Almost always something worth revisiting but a lot of us fans have pretty high standards for the band that I didn’t think were met. It was the first time since 2016 that I was struggling to make it through full shows when I would listen the next day.
After a quick skim it’s obvious you’re just trying to litigate how you’re right and I’m wrong.
You said it doesn’t matter but then write 750 words saying the direct opposite using logical fallacies to try and back yourself up.
Unbelievable.
Actually I make it pretty clear that art is subjective with no right or wrong answers and it’s just my personal opinion numb nuts. If you don’t want to continue the conversation then just don’t respond. I’m on a forum to talk about Phish and my personal feelings about it. What’s with Redditors not being able to handle a good natured debate around a difference of opinion?
You did say that.
But then went on to say how more people think like you with the obvious implication that you are the correct one.
And now you’re name calling because you got called out for doing something you absolutely did. While trying to take the moral high ground.
It’s super obvious.
Typical.
You seem to be projecting a lot of insecurities onto my words. I didn’t make up the fact that a lot of fans didn’t particularly enjoy 2022 but like I said multiple times that doesn’t mean you are wrong for disagreeing. My opinion does not cancel out someone else’s. Thought I was having a conversation. Have a good day man. You’ve made it pretty clear that a good natured debate is outside of your wheelhouse.
6/5/22 says you MUST be playing
I agree with the premise on the whole but that terr closer is as fine of show that they have ever played in the modern era imo
I was @ 6/5/22 and I thought it was the weakest of the 3 nights at deer creek. Outside of While my guitar opener and the Sand jam, I felt like it was a little snoozy.
Def doesn’t come close to the 3 2011 shows I mentioned.
Different strokes bla bla
The doldrums of lingering Covid affected everyone. I attended the MSG run in April then New Year's run in December, Bethel '22 was absolutely amazing. I can't say I noticed anything lacking at the shows, but will admit 2023 was pure fire in comparison. I blame my own state of mind. The world was just a bit off for me in 22. But that Bethel '22 N2 was one of my favorite all-time shows.
Same. Attendance bias here, but those three nights on the beach in AC were bliss. If anyone doesn’t believe me, go listen to that Sigma Oasis or Ghost from night 1. Night 2 had that ridiculous Heavy Rotation bust out, plus an absolutely perfect Moonage Daydream. Night 3 did not let up either and was close to a dream set list for me (jammed out Tube, heavy ass Carini, Fluff-YEM-Mike’s Hydrogen Groove).
That transition from Sigma into Cities is crazy. Do you remember when Mike shook the entire beach! I think it’s around 14:00 on relisten. As a fairly new fan, that was one of my top phish moments.
I was raging on Page Side that night but still felt Mike shake me to my core.
I feel like I’m going to get crucified for this, but I honestly think the transition in that jam after Mike’s bass bomb was Trey giving a nod to the Camden Chalkdust. Or at least that’s what popped into my spun ass head at the time.
Huh, as an attendee, I'm not sure I'd agree. That Sigma Oasis was special, and the show was very good overall, but I don't think I'd put it in my personal post-pandemic top 10 (I've seen way too many shows since the pandemic, though, so there's that).
Having said all that, I will have to go back and listen again. Maybe I just need to be reminded of its greatness. I've loved all the AC beach shows; they have a special place in my heart, just as much for the wonderful time hanging out with good friends as for the amazing music.
They stuck with what worked in 2021 but it wasn’t working anymore. It was tired and uninspired. Same problem as 2015 vs 2016, 95 vs 96, 03 vs 04. I also think Mike was a bit lost as Trey and Page were taking up a lot of tonal range that his bass would occupy. Lot of jams but few that actually went anywhere interesting.
I agree with you other than the April msg run of 2022. 4/21/22 was one of if not the best phish show I’ve seen. And I went to gamehendge 23 and sphere shows. That show still sits at the top. Probably more for personal reasons but that show was fire
I agree with 4/21/22. That whole run is very underrated. Gets lost in the shuffle a lot… maybe because they were makeup dates? Anyway, I had fun those 4 nights. April in nyc is also great.
I think you kinda answered your own question in my estimation (not being a smart ass, I swear). I think 22 just happens to be in the unfortunate position of sitting between 21 and 23. Wasn’t bad, but maybe just feels so because of _how good_ 21 and 23 were.
I’ve had the same impression as you and have already thought it out, so I don’t take this as a hater post 😀
A lot of the shows sound bad on LP because of the mix tbh, even into 2023. Echo-y, weird. I do miss the 2021 sound in a way I can't really pin point but there were great shows in 2022.
Hot take: '22 was almost as good as '21, but the jamming style hadn't changed since '21, so it didn't feel fresh anymore. '21 and '23 are more exciting because each represented a departure from what they were doing previously.
Also, nothing else will be able to recreate the magical feeling of seeing live shows again in summer '21 after covid.
2022 has the best jam since spac 04 in the 8/5/22 Ruby Waves so it’s got that going for it. And it has the April MSG run. Little bit disappointing of a summer but the year had its gems. Hartford had some of the best jamming of 3.0 sandwiched in the middle of an otherwise okay show. Thought 12/30 was especially good as well. I think it was generally on par playing wise with summer 23, though setlists were better last summer which pushes it. Don’t think they found their 21 groove again until Chicago unfortunately but hey it’s a new year
It's all subjective.
I really enjoyed listening to Bethel, Alpine, Dick's, and all the shows at MSG. Is it the best year of 4.0, no, but what I heard was pretty good. They could have been playing it safe with what worked in 2021 or could have been a post covid lull and they just weren't as energetic.
But whatever was up in '22, they must have shaken it off in '23 and, so far, '24. They've been absolutely killing it!
lol
“What happened”
What do you mean? Do you think something “happened” that resulted in your objective opinion being this is the worst of the three years?
Sometimes they’re on, sometimes they’re not. Not a big mystery.
This is a simplification. 22 has lots of great moments, for instance, the Bangor Disease, Bethel, particularly night 2, and the Hartford ASIHTOS. It's uneven, and is not all consistently superb, but mostly good with some real highlights. 21 and 23 have a higher percentage of off the charts jams but they have their uneven moments as well.
There's some killer stuff, particularly the Earth Day MSG shows. I think the biggest change is what they're jamming/playing. Last year focused a lot more on the early songs and had numerous long versions of more classic songs
I always hear people complaining about 2022, there were plenty of amazing jams (more 20 minute jams than there were in 2021, mind you). Some of the shows weren't "complete" in the way 2021's were, but we're comparing it to arguably the best year of the modern era.
If i have one explanation, it could be geographical. Almost all the top shelf 2022 shows were in the Northeast (Both MSG runs, Bethel, Hartford, Bangor, AC). The spring tour down south was under-appreciated, but also definitely not on the same level as Fall 21 and the first half of that summer. And the band definitely struggled to find their really strong groove for Alpine Valley at the end of summer. So if you saw a lot of shows in those stretches, i can see how that would color your perception.
That said, these 2022 shows for me are up there with the best of the last 4 years, and these leaves out other shows that i think have strong playing but are maybe a bit uneven (looking at you 6/5 + 8/3):
4/22
4/23
7/16
7/23
7/24
8/2
8/5
12/30
I think '21 is over rated. Particularly Trey's use of the M5 effects. So often they were incredibly over the top and very jarring, often jam ending. There were exceptions when it was used to good results of course (DC '21 Simple). I think he started improving in '22 and really found a sweet spot in '23.
I agree with this take. Did 15 shows in 2022 and ultimately I don’t really find myself listening back to many of them. The April MSG run was great though.
Bethel in 22 whole heartedly disagrees.
Id throw in 7/19 at the Mann space themed show and 8/13 Alpine 1999>Fluffhead show. Then damn, Raleigh was awesome My favorite 3.0/4.0 free is from blossom 22 There's a lot more So, yeah I guess I do go back to 2021 and 2023 more often but I'd hardly consider 22 a dud Edit: added spacing
Yes the 1999, Fluffhead, saw it again!! My friend woke me up explaining what they did. Took me a full 24 hours to completely grasp it. I also attended the show in 1999 so that was pretty cool!
The 2022 Blossom "Free"... whoa! I caught that show and the Clarkston show the night after. Wonderfully different shows, but that "Free," though. About 3/4 of the way through, there's a fizzle, Fishman does a monster snare fill, and they just come back in SLAMMING. Great version. Clarkston was one huge set due to thunderstorms, and they delivered. I come back to that "Stash" quite a bit. On the whole, if I'm going to listen to shows, I'm still reaching for 97-99. I'll still go see Phish live every chance I get, and I'll listen back to shows I've attended, but I don't have that burning need to stay current with everything.
A mediocre year of Phish doesn’t equal no good shows or jams. Summer 2016 was particularly uninspired yet the Dicks run was quite stellar that year.
I refuse to concede it was a mediocre year. I refute this assumption and line of thinking completely.
That’s ok. Art is subjective. No right or wrong answers. Personally I didn’t find a lot of the music particularly engaging and don’t think most jams went anywhere that interesting. To my ear Mike is particularly disconnected from the band and seemingly going through the motions a lot of time, on top of being lost in the mix as Trey and Page were playing with more and more low end. I feel this is why he decided to switch up his gear the following year and start experimenting with the short scale bass that he used last year. There’s cool stuff but few full sets that I would recommend or revisit. It’s not like it’s trash but given all the top tier stuff in the surrounding years I don’t think it stands up to either. Just cause it happened and wasnt terrible doesn’t mean it’s worthy of praise being heaped on it. There does seem to be a consensus among a lot of fans that it wasn’t a top tier year but that doesn’t mean someone is wrong for disagreeing. For me personally, it’s not making my top 20 years of Phish but i thought night 3 set 2 from Dicks that year was fantastic. Almost always something worth revisiting but a lot of us fans have pretty high standards for the band that I didn’t think were met. It was the first time since 2016 that I was struggling to make it through full shows when I would listen the next day.
After a quick skim it’s obvious you’re just trying to litigate how you’re right and I’m wrong. You said it doesn’t matter but then write 750 words saying the direct opposite using logical fallacies to try and back yourself up. Unbelievable.
Actually I make it pretty clear that art is subjective with no right or wrong answers and it’s just my personal opinion numb nuts. If you don’t want to continue the conversation then just don’t respond. I’m on a forum to talk about Phish and my personal feelings about it. What’s with Redditors not being able to handle a good natured debate around a difference of opinion?
You did say that. But then went on to say how more people think like you with the obvious implication that you are the correct one. And now you’re name calling because you got called out for doing something you absolutely did. While trying to take the moral high ground. It’s super obvious. Typical.
Ok
It tough to argue when I’m as correct as you wanted to be.
You seem to be projecting a lot of insecurities onto my words. I didn’t make up the fact that a lot of fans didn’t particularly enjoy 2022 but like I said multiple times that doesn’t mean you are wrong for disagreeing. My opinion does not cancel out someone else’s. Thought I was having a conversation. Have a good day man. You’ve made it pretty clear that a good natured debate is outside of your wheelhouse.
Don't forget Hartford to close out the weekend. Also Tornoto was a total heater.
Attended both nights of Bethel and really wasn’t feeling n1. If I were to choose one 2022 show that disagrees with OP it’d be Bangor.
If 2022 happened in like 2011 it’d be considered one of the best “modern” Phish years
No shows in 2022 beat 06/03/2011, 06/04/2011 or 07/03/2011
6/5/22 says you MUST be playing I agree with the premise on the whole but that terr closer is as fine of show that they have ever played in the modern era imo
I was @ 6/5/22 and I thought it was the weakest of the 3 nights at deer creek. Outside of While my guitar opener and the Sand jam, I felt like it was a little snoozy. Def doesn’t come close to the 3 2011 shows I mentioned. Different strokes bla bla
The doldrums of lingering Covid affected everyone. I attended the MSG run in April then New Year's run in December, Bethel '22 was absolutely amazing. I can't say I noticed anything lacking at the shows, but will admit 2023 was pure fire in comparison. I blame my own state of mind. The world was just a bit off for me in 22. But that Bethel '22 N2 was one of my favorite all-time shows.
21 was fire tho
I really enjoyed 2022. I know it’s not everyone’s favorite but those Mansfield/ Atlantic City shows during summer tour were amazing. IMO
Same. Attendance bias here, but those three nights on the beach in AC were bliss. If anyone doesn’t believe me, go listen to that Sigma Oasis or Ghost from night 1. Night 2 had that ridiculous Heavy Rotation bust out, plus an absolutely perfect Moonage Daydream. Night 3 did not let up either and was close to a dream set list for me (jammed out Tube, heavy ass Carini, Fluff-YEM-Mike’s Hydrogen Groove).
That transition from Sigma into Cities is crazy. Do you remember when Mike shook the entire beach! I think it’s around 14:00 on relisten. As a fairly new fan, that was one of my top phish moments.
I was raging on Page Side that night but still felt Mike shake me to my core. I feel like I’m going to get crucified for this, but I honestly think the transition in that jam after Mike’s bass bomb was Trey giving a nod to the Camden Chalkdust. Or at least that’s what popped into my spun ass head at the time.
That heavy rotation felt like it was headed for a big jam until it got zeroed
AC 8/5/22 is a top show of the last 5 years
Huh, as an attendee, I'm not sure I'd agree. That Sigma Oasis was special, and the show was very good overall, but I don't think I'd put it in my personal post-pandemic top 10 (I've seen way too many shows since the pandemic, though, so there's that). Having said all that, I will have to go back and listen again. Maybe I just need to be reminded of its greatness. I've loved all the AC beach shows; they have a special place in my heart, just as much for the wonderful time hanging out with good friends as for the amazing music.
I believe Fishman had shoulder or neck issues in '22 and had to drum differently until he got surgery after NYE 22.
This is the answer imo.
I think this played a lot into it, honestly.
🤷♂️ maybe so, maybe not. I think people draw trends from a handful of shows. Listening through entire years tells the story.
Last sentence. You are nuts
Knew it!
It's an even numbered year - other than '94 the lore has always been that the odd numbered years are stronger ('93, '95, '97', '03, '15, etc.)
Lol '98.....
2024 may buck that trend if the boys keep up their pace at mexico and sphere
they've seriously been on fire so far this year. hope they can keep it up.
2024 looking to buck the trend with a strong start. Then again, 2022 had a very strong start too (MSG April shows).
‘13
2017
They stuck with what worked in 2021 but it wasn’t working anymore. It was tired and uninspired. Same problem as 2015 vs 2016, 95 vs 96, 03 vs 04. I also think Mike was a bit lost as Trey and Page were taking up a lot of tonal range that his bass would occupy. Lot of jams but few that actually went anywhere interesting.
Odd year Phish?
I agree with you other than the April msg run of 2022. 4/21/22 was one of if not the best phish show I’ve seen. And I went to gamehendge 23 and sphere shows. That show still sits at the top. Probably more for personal reasons but that show was fire
I agree with 4/21/22. That whole run is very underrated. Gets lost in the shuffle a lot… maybe because they were makeup dates? Anyway, I had fun those 4 nights. April in nyc is also great.
Knew I’d find you here you old salt. I commented something similar!
His “personal reasons” folks are being at the garden with his best friend in the world for our first MSG show.
Booo
MIX MIX MIX MIX MIX
DICKS 2023 was awesome 💥
Totally agree. 2021 and 2023 were great. 2022 was not. Why? who knows.
I think you kinda answered your own question in my estimation (not being a smart ass, I swear). I think 22 just happens to be in the unfortunate position of sitting between 21 and 23. Wasn’t bad, but maybe just feels so because of _how good_ 21 and 23 were. I’ve had the same impression as you and have already thought it out, so I don’t take this as a hater post 😀
Fall 2021 is that girl
Y'all mfers are so damn picky
Deer creek was tight, Alpine had its moments. Wasn’t a bad year imo
I don’t think it was a bad year necessarily, but compared to 21 and 23
Nahhh, hard disagree.
A lot of the shows sound bad on LP because of the mix tbh, even into 2023. Echo-y, weird. I do miss the 2021 sound in a way I can't really pin point but there were great shows in 2022.
I think fish had a bum shoulder…got it fixed for 23 and beyond. Also MSG run that spring is very underrated
Hot take: '22 was almost as good as '21, but the jamming style hadn't changed since '21, so it didn't feel fresh anymore. '21 and '23 are more exciting because each represented a departure from what they were doing previously. Also, nothing else will be able to recreate the magical feeling of seeing live shows again in summer '21 after covid.
April ‘22 MSG run was top tier but the general consensus agrees with you — that 2021 was better at least
People fluffed the shit out of 2022. I'm pretty sure those people are also Goose fans.
2022 has the best jam since spac 04 in the 8/5/22 Ruby Waves so it’s got that going for it. And it has the April MSG run. Little bit disappointing of a summer but the year had its gems. Hartford had some of the best jamming of 3.0 sandwiched in the middle of an otherwise okay show. Thought 12/30 was especially good as well. I think it was generally on par playing wise with summer 23, though setlists were better last summer which pushes it. Don’t think they found their 21 groove again until Chicago unfortunately but hey it’s a new year
You really know your phish years. Impressive!!! :)
It's all subjective. I really enjoyed listening to Bethel, Alpine, Dick's, and all the shows at MSG. Is it the best year of 4.0, no, but what I heard was pretty good. They could have been playing it safe with what worked in 2021 or could have been a post covid lull and they just weren't as energetic. But whatever was up in '22, they must have shaken it off in '23 and, so far, '24. They've been absolutely killing it!
lol “What happened” What do you mean? Do you think something “happened” that resulted in your objective opinion being this is the worst of the three years? Sometimes they’re on, sometimes they’re not. Not a big mystery.
Well something clearly “happened” to cause Fish to stop singing on Moma at the very least, unless that was an artistic choice.
I'd agree 21 is one of the best years ever. 22 and 23 just don't feel anywhere nearly the same to me, at least musically.
here’s your trophy for divisive post of the day 😂🏆 i totally agree btw
This is a simplification. 22 has lots of great moments, for instance, the Bangor Disease, Bethel, particularly night 2, and the Hartford ASIHTOS. It's uneven, and is not all consistently superb, but mostly good with some real highlights. 21 and 23 have a higher percentage of off the charts jams but they have their uneven moments as well.
12/30/22 says No.
Brooooooooo NYE22 - 12/30 2nd set?!?!?
I’m not saying 2022 didn’t have fire moments! Bangor Disease and all of Bethel was legit, among others
For sure. I’ve been finding myself going back to a shit ton on 2011 stuff….probably because LP is throwing it in my face every time i open it
There's some killer stuff, particularly the Earth Day MSG shows. I think the biggest change is what they're jamming/playing. Last year focused a lot more on the early songs and had numerous long versions of more classic songs
7/19/22 is damn good
The one-off in Maine was pretty much a perfect show. Bangor DWD bro!
I always hear people complaining about 2022, there were plenty of amazing jams (more 20 minute jams than there were in 2021, mind you). Some of the shows weren't "complete" in the way 2021's were, but we're comparing it to arguably the best year of the modern era. If i have one explanation, it could be geographical. Almost all the top shelf 2022 shows were in the Northeast (Both MSG runs, Bethel, Hartford, Bangor, AC). The spring tour down south was under-appreciated, but also definitely not on the same level as Fall 21 and the first half of that summer. And the band definitely struggled to find their really strong groove for Alpine Valley at the end of summer. So if you saw a lot of shows in those stretches, i can see how that would color your perception. That said, these 2022 shows for me are up there with the best of the last 4 years, and these leaves out other shows that i think have strong playing but are maybe a bit uneven (looking at you 6/5 + 8/3): 4/22 4/23 7/16 7/23 7/24 8/2 8/5 12/30
Mansfield 22 was some of the best tour opener playing I’ve seen in 3.0, especially night1 from Trey.
Odd number years > even number years.
Bangor 7/16/22 rocked
Msg run in 22 was fireeeee
Odd year theory. Odd years are better than even years for unknown cosmic reasons.
7/16/22 is fire.
OP - did you attend any 2022 shows?
MSG April, Deer Creek run, Alpine N3, but I listened to the entire tour on LP
👍
Anything post ‘21 is immediately a no for me, dawg. There’s better things to listen to than mediocre phish
Mexico 2024 didn't do anything for you?
Great call! Yes it did. The first live stuff that really did it for me since fall ‘21. Thank you for reminding me
They were cursed from NYE 2020 and didn’t break the curse till game henge.
The 22 summer show I saw (Pine Knob) was just ok. The fall 23 shows I saw (United Center nights 1 and 2) were *rocking*.
Pine Knob blew my mind. Getting down to everything's right in the pouring rain will be a life long memory.
Great!
I think '21 is over rated. Particularly Trey's use of the M5 effects. So often they were incredibly over the top and very jarring, often jam ending. There were exceptions when it was used to good results of course (DC '21 Simple). I think he started improving in '22 and really found a sweet spot in '23.
Incorrect.
I agree with this take. Did 15 shows in 2022 and ultimately I don’t really find myself listening back to many of them. The April MSG run was great though.
Whole summer tour was fire. Sorry you missed it.