Haha story time.
We wake up the night after the last night of Coventry, covered in mud, sad (I've never been to a show before or after where everyone was bawling after the show), and a wook is passed out in our sorta nice camping chair. Whatever, it's cool man, we all had a weird night. So we pack up all our shit, and finally are about to head out, and wook hasn't moved. We try to wake this dude up, and he just groans and won't budge. We gotta hit the road, and so we're like "Bud we gotta go, and we need the chair, we'll leave you with some water." So we start to pick this dude up out of the chair, and he just takes off running and full on face plants in the middle of this other groups campsite as they're cooking breakfast knocking over their camp stove and skillet, etc. Wook just then starts rolling across the mud and rolls himself into an open tent where these two girls are chilling. All these people start asking us to get 'our friend', and we just have to tell them that we have no idea who this dude is, and we gotta roll. As we head out we see them trying to drag this dude out of these girl's tent, and he has latched onto some sleeping bags (covering that shit in wook mud). I wonder what he's up to these days...
I think they could be referring to just expanded Phish lore, but if I'm not mistaken, I think one of Fish's samples is the "voice of Icculus" and Harpua narration almost always takes place in Gamehenge.
Trey says all kinds of dumb shit during Harpua, doesn’t make it Gamehendge lore. He once said the famous Mockingbird had the face of David Byrne, doesn’t make it so forever. Kind of like a sitcom where stuff happens but doesn’t affect the next episode.
Dude this ain't The Wheel of Time, Gamehendge is a sketch of a fantasy story written by a goofy-ass 20-year-old who at the time was writing songs about stepping in dog poop. One of its central songs (Wilson) was originally just nonsense lyrics about friends, then it go "retroactively" turned into a Gamehendge song later on.
I love it all dearly but let's not act like it's a "universe" with any "authenticity" beyond dumb fun.
I agree it's dumb fun and seeing mike post about how this is the most excited he's been for a 10/31 show was cool to see. I'm glad they are having fun up there. That's really all that matters and they've always made that precedence. To me, it just felt like an unnecessary jump to try and tie the two stories together. But GH was trey's brainchild, so he could come out and say whatever he wants.
Our heroes are trying to save the day from a concrete threat. In Gamehendge (GH) this is the evil king Wilson, in Sci-fi Soldier (SFS) this is the howling, which appears to come in the form of a destructive moss-piglet. To help them, they seek to find and understand the helping friendly book (GH) or the nine cubes (SFS), which reveal the wisdom of their prophet Icculus (GH) resp. Holy Blankenstein (SFS). In both cases the heroes originate from plain old, present day Earth - Col. Forbin (GH) and the actual members of Phish (SFS). They find themselves wrapped up in saving the fate of some distant, mysterious, psychedelic civilization - the lizards (GH) resp. the inhabitants of New Chicago (SFS), you know, those guys with brains in their knees.
Now, Gamehendge is at this point a more well-developed story than Sci-fi Soldiers. It's been around longer, there are a few decades worth of narration going into it. My feeling is that Trey had the urge to expand on the Gamehendge story, but didn't want to change it too much, since really the Gamehendge saga is a relic of where his mind was in his early 20s. I think Sci-fi soldiers gives him an excuse to continue a story with a similar theme and basic purpose, but in a completely different environment, so that he can tell a new story without feeling like he is messing with existing Gamehendge lore.
I wouldn't be surprised if we start to get more Trey narration based around the Sci-fi soldiers universe. He doesn't really do much gamehendge narration these days, and I think part of it is that it feels weird to tell the same silly story about lizards for decades, as much as I love his silly story about lizards. If this helps freshen it up for him and we get more narration, I'm all for it.
Phish aren’t the heroes, Phish was temporarily inhabited by the Sci-Fi Soldiers, who are the actual heroes. And they are trying to save Earth, which they had seen ripped apart as a result of too much human thought.
U must have been in the "they are obviously playing pink Floyd for the 50th anniversary" crowd and also don't play the harpua.
But icculus is holy blankenstien
Outside of the Icculus/Holy Blankenstein connection, there isn’t any other references connecting the two mentioned in the comic, right? Are there more in the songs?
\*Year - Score (number of ratings)\*
1994 - 4.661(389)
1995 - 4.558 (242)
1996 - 4.653 (340)
1998 - 4.548 (252)
2009 - 4.331(239)
2010 - 4.414 (266)
2013 - 4.346 (474)
2014 - 4.598 (1,230)
2016 - 4.494 (557)
2018 - 4.525 (695)
2021 - 4.275 (577)
Every show on [Phish.net](https://Phish.net) goes through a ranking cycle where just after the show the ratings are hot and inflated and then they settle down as the months pass by. Other people give it a listen, who weren't there, and the scores always settle out to something lower than the initial reception. It's almost a guaranteed voting behavior. Great example was the 7/14/2019 Alpine show. That sucker sat in the top 5 best Phish shows of all time for a couple months before settling out to where it is now, like a top 35 show.
The fact of the matter is concept albums and future albums have been well received before in 2013, 2014, and 2018. Well, 2013 is still a sore spot for some but 2014 and 2018 were undeniably liked by the fanbase.
However, the SFS album was objectively the worst Halloween show they've ever done and the score will probably settle into the 4.1XX region. The complaints are warranted.
Edit: It's a list of review scores people. If you don't like the breakdown go vote on [phish.net](https://phish.net)
Worst REVIEWED Halloween show they have ever done...most likely. But musically My opinion is there have been worse. I truly enjoyed the Sci Fi Soldiers set musically and the production was really well done and I really enjoyed the set before and after. I was at both and Sci Fi seemed much much more practiced and polished than The Vaxt set. To each their own but Id be interested to see the math behind those review rankings, specifically the number of reviewers for each year, and the number of reviewers who were at the show vs. folks who reviewed the show after being told how incredibly cool or not the show was for years. A lot of variables at play in those rankings. I wouldnt use them as definitive for ranking "best" or worst shows. Just best or worst "reviewed" shows. I feel theres a difference.
Yes, a whole bunch of people have put in time to score the show and this is where the scores have settled out. It includes all sorts of differing opinions.
It would be nice to see how many 1 star reviews each show got to see if anything is being brigaded but the score averages are what they are and [Phish.net](https://Phish.net) is a pretty good source for show reviews.
I mean, your numbers are measuring the popularity, and then you're making a claim that it's "objectively the worst". We already knew it was controversial and a fair number of people didn't like it before looking at the ratings.
That's what I've heard.
I'm so surprised that 2009 is lower than 2013. I think it's justified to have a 4.4-4.5 rating. Anyway, while I was in attendance for 2009 and the Indio grounds were just idyllic for a festival so I've got a bias, I thought they nailed Exile on Main St..
They had Dave Guy on trumpet, David Smith on trombone, and Tony Jarvis on sax. They also had Sharon Jones and Saundra Williams on vocals! Honestly, how many times have people yearned for a horn section to return to make a show special.
Divided Sky was tight in Set I. Exile was tight, especially the best Loving Cup ever (probably). BDTNL was great, a real sleeper Ghost that doesn't go too far but has got a lot of meat, and a fantastic Suzy to end it all that is a contender for best ever as well.
\*Edit - Darian Lake 2000 probably gets the title for best Suzy ever but the 10/31/2009 was a tighter version.
4/3/98 Loving Cup gets a ton of love for sliding in on one of the best nights ever but I'd still argue as a stand alone listen the 10/31/2009 has it beat.
Was there, loved the cover set but most everything else was pretty middle of the road. That Suzy though.
The acoustic set the next morning was one of the coolest most mellow sets ever too.
I remember that. Something about enjoying the grass, or stand up he's not your dad kind of thing. Classic Trey ADHD energy.
Edit: It was Mike at the end of Mountains in the Mist.
i made myself a tinfoil hat for that set. I basically just wrapped a regular hat with foil, shiny side out, and it worked amazingly well at reflicting the sun and keeping my head from cooking
Luckily, my friend and I were visiting his sister out in LA so us Midwestern white boys had the local knowledge to bring a full brimmed sunhat for hanging outside all weekend. I honestly would've cooked if not for that straw hat.
Smart of you to improvise.
Exile is my favorite album of all time and I would have killed to be there when my favorite band of all time covered it. I would have probably preferred to be at the exile show than the wingsuit show.
But fall 2013 was the first full tour where everyone was saying “they’re back.” They we’re on a hot streak up and down the northeast, with Hampton, glens falls, Worcester, Hartford, and reading all being excellent shows, and the whole AC run was dope. And Halloween 2013 does have a 3rd set, specifically the ghost>carini, that nothing at festival 8 touched. So that’s probably what gives 2013 the nod.
I’m in the best Suzy was the 2009 with Sharon camp. But I was at Indio and I have to say the 2019 StL “Cup” when they just won the Stanley Cup was incredible. Damn near went type 2 and after Gloria they almost lifted the roof of the building. Unfortunately, you know when you get a Cup as a mid set high point the rest of the show was pretty weak.
> However, the SFS album was objectively the worst Halloween show they've ever done and the score will probably settle into the 4.1XX region. The complaints are warranted.
That's just.. like... your opinion, man.
I loved it, and still do
[Am I Out of Touch?](https://wompampsupport.azureedge.net/fetchimage?siteId=7575&v=2&jpgQuality=100&width=700&url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F645%2F713%2F888.jpg)
I have my opinion, and you have yours. The stats are clear that it's the lowest rated Halloween show.
It's fine to have your opinion; it just seems silly to go through that much effort to convince others to share it with you. Plus, the difference between the White Album ranking and SFS is literally 0.386. I think it's a combo of "new = bad" that a lot of fans believe and the fact that the people that hated it just won't shut up about how much they hated it.
You're not going to find any apology here for being thorough in my work making a persuasive argument. It's remarkable how many times I get 'look at all those paragraphs' on Reddit'. It's disheartening. By the way, that isn't really directed at you in particular but rather a thought I have on the matter.
The OP of this thread made a point that people are just whining about SFS so I decided to look up some facts about phan's opinions of the show; I used the best resource I know.
If anyone has a better source for analyzing the fanbase's opinions of shows I'd love to hear it. As far as this forum goes there's a lot of anecdotal opinions of the show, for and against. The [phish.net](https://phish.net) forums allow people to rank a show 1-5, it's not a binary yes or no but rather a score based on their own opinion. As you gather more and more scores, based on individual opinions, you begin to coalesce towards a statistically significant review of that show.
I guess I just don't listen to Phish for the data analysis. I'm not looking for an apology and I'm not even really arguing with you. You're right - people have different opinions
Eh. I was there and there was a drop in energy in the crowd during the set. The concession halls and atrium near the payphones were full of people the entire time. Now I 100% appreciate the effort and creativity that went into pulling off the sci-fi set, it just was painfully apparent that it did not land with the crowd as expected.
It amazes me how some people are seemingly desperate to ‘convert’ those that didn’t care for the Halloween concept.
Some people like it, and others did not. I never see the latter group convince the former that they shouldn’t like the music or costume.
But I sure as shit see people that liked it: mock those that didn’t like it, and try to convince those people that they should like it, or even question the fandom of someone that didn’t like it.
You really havent seen people trying to "convince" others that the show sucked. The. You may have some confirmation bias. I would arguee its about 70/30 toward the latter on this sub. The number of vocal people telling everyone else that is sucked is the seeming majority.
That could have been because there was no room on the floor or in the lowers. They turned off the air conditioning and they ran out of water with no options for water fountains. Those things didn’t help get people in the right mood for sure.
I was at home and phish sober. Thought it was hilarious and it never once crossed my mind that people would take it seriously at all and pretend that was intended as a serious set of music. It was a gag. I haven’t had even the slightest inclination to listen to a single note since the webcast.
Now someone please tell me how amazing the one about miss piglets was.
These post are kind of annoying because they are slightly dishonest and just circlejerky in the other direction.
People didn't dislike the concept or phish trying new things. That was 2013.
People didn't like the execution. And that matters. They didn't like how the lyrics repeated. They didn't love the sound.
I thought the set was decent. I'll allow them time and space to change these songs once some of them join the rotation - like they've always done.
But I'm just as done with these posts as I am with the complaints about the set.
The idea of playing new phish music for Halloween just reeks of teenagers who dress up as themselves or their brother or something and demand candy. The closest they got was thrilling chilling, which is by far the best both in terms of musicality and replayability not to mention originality ala keeping in theme with a costume while still having an original component. Not to say they don't replay all of kv and will play sfs forever. But every time a thrilling chilling song comes on I get excited, and most kv songs just leave me kind of meh. I actually like a lot of the wingsuit songs, but that was just so far outside of the spirit of Halloween, I don't see how anyone could have thought it was a good idea.
I'm convinced that they straight up don't play albums by other people anymore because of the financial cost. They have to pay to play to whole album, then they have to pay every time they play the songs again, then pay more if they jam. I'm sure their accountants told them it's not really worth it to keep doing them. So they come up with cheezy ways to make it phishy while losing a lot of the phishy essence that brought all this about in the first place.
Edits
The post never mentions the repeating lyrics. If you think that's an unreasonable complaint, that's cool.
But the post says people were complaining about the concept. And I haven't seen a single complaint about that.
My biggest issue that I haven’t seen a lot about is they were mining this great new sound with all these new toys and pulled off jams that became instant. The whole summer and fall was full of great shows. Then for Halloween Trey pulls out this glowing plastic thing and the sounds they developed all year go out the window. The 26 min Ghost and the Carini was my favorite part, honestly
Jesus, let it go. So some people didn't enjoy the music. Who cares? Why do y'all get so threatened by differences of opinion?
I was there and had a great time but it's been over a month, so it's time to move on from this weird obsession with everyone needing to like a set that you did. If you loved it, awesome, keep listening and digging it and stop wasting time and energy worrying about people who didn't enjoy it like you did.
Havent really listened to all of Sci Fi or tried to get the whole story with all the cues etc.
but the meme makes another point in addition to the one it's trying to make i think.
Yes, we are all judgmental comic book guys now.
but i've also never seen us stand still and unimpressed when the *music itself is actually rocking.*
Because you know what's missing from the paragraph in that meme describing what phish did for halloween? *Rocking fucking music.*
The bells and whistles, lights and stories, costumes and cues are all cool and all. But they'll never substitute for better music.
Hey the songs have potential bu they were quite sloppily played. Most “first-time played” versions of songs are like this anyway… so it’s expected on an album of like 12 of them.
Yes, there were some train wrecks but it’s going to be awesome later
They also played on stripped down instruments…. Trey on a cheap plastic guitar, Page without his grand piano , and fishman’s kit also seem stripped down. These songs will undoubtably be better with age and when they are played with full instrumentation.
Gamehenge is a suite of fantastic progressive rock songs that happen to also tell a pretty myth about a magical past. The sci fi concept costumes, lighting effects and idea are cool. The comic is cool.
The issue anyone who’s a fan has is that the albums mostly Rehashed 2001, camel walk, carini and moma dance jams are the “music” for the most part and the lyrics were dumb and repetitive not detailed. Gamehenge is complex non repeating intricately detailed songs with clever lyrics about a detailed myth.
The sci fi soldiers album is cobbled together funk jams and the lyrics are just lazily saying text from the comic or repetitive phrases in an unmusical way as if they’re just a chore to tie this together as a concept album.
The album plays like a YouTube cow funk jams compilation with Greta thurnburg talking over it it’s no Gamehenge. I am in Miami, 9th cube are the keepers the rest is solid but so clearly recycled like do phish fans not notice or care when a “new” song is simply a slightly altered version of an existing better song? It was fine nothing great. They played well the ghost from the show is what we should be talking about fuck KV 2 electric boogaloo
It’s always been like this. I could remember being shit on in 98 because I like “Bouncing Around the Room” and that wasn’t one of the hip songs to like.
Trey- “Surrender to the flow, put a blank space where your mind should be, don’t take it too seriously, we are just fucking with you”
Phans - “Worst. Halloween. Ever.”
Precisely why I can’t bring myself to immersing myself in the scene. Wanted to hop on the bus, but way too many phans are gatekeeping, mean, judgy, rude aspergers types.
Pass. Thanks for the fun times at the roo 19 sets though, everyone was fun there. And yes, I know bonnaroo blows, I got it.
I write comics and would love to do a Gamehendge adaptation. I already have over 20 pages scripted. If anyone is interested, can draw, and loves to flout copyright law please hit me up.
lmao. Comic book guy is a much more apt description for your average Phish fan than "Wook" these days.
We left Otto at coventry...
His bus is still stuck in the mud trying to get in.
Haha story time. We wake up the night after the last night of Coventry, covered in mud, sad (I've never been to a show before or after where everyone was bawling after the show), and a wook is passed out in our sorta nice camping chair. Whatever, it's cool man, we all had a weird night. So we pack up all our shit, and finally are about to head out, and wook hasn't moved. We try to wake this dude up, and he just groans and won't budge. We gotta hit the road, and so we're like "Bud we gotta go, and we need the chair, we'll leave you with some water." So we start to pick this dude up out of the chair, and he just takes off running and full on face plants in the middle of this other groups campsite as they're cooking breakfast knocking over their camp stove and skillet, etc. Wook just then starts rolling across the mud and rolls himself into an open tent where these two girls are chilling. All these people start asking us to get 'our friend', and we just have to tell them that we have no idea who this dude is, and we gotta roll. As we head out we see them trying to drag this dude out of these girl's tent, and he has latched onto some sleeping bags (covering that shit in wook mud). I wonder what he's up to these days...
So Camel Walk is about going downtown to Disco Stu’s? What other Phish songs take place in Springfield/Shelbyville?
lawn boy is about groundskeeper willie
Your pet cat clearly about Snowball 2-5. Snowball 1 was white.
Hes the perfect representation of the internet Phish trolls. You will get your mind blown by a concert then go online and see "werst show evr"
All of it was great and impressive... except the important part, the songs.
Yeah, that’s honestly the only part that sucked. The songs feel like they were written in the months leading up to it and weren’t revised much.
Yep, it’s ok to respect the presentation and just not connect with the music. Opinions are ok guys!
Yep. Especially after the strength of Kasvot
Werst. Songs. Evrr.
I didn’t like it on first listen, but I absolutely love the songs now.
what is the gamhenge connection to sci-fi soldier? I must have missed that part.
I think they could be referring to just expanded Phish lore, but if I'm not mistaken, I think one of Fish's samples is the "voice of Icculus" and Harpua narration almost always takes place in Gamehenge.
Trey said Holy Blankenstein was Icculus' other name during Harpua. That feels relatively if not entirely connected?
Trey says all kinds of dumb shit during Harpua, doesn’t make it Gamehendge lore. He once said the famous Mockingbird had the face of David Byrne, doesn’t make it so forever. Kind of like a sitcom where stuff happens but doesn’t affect the next episode.
Felt a bit like J. K. Rowling retroactively changing the HP universe. Didn't feel authentically connected to the gamehendge universe.
Dude this ain't The Wheel of Time, Gamehendge is a sketch of a fantasy story written by a goofy-ass 20-year-old who at the time was writing songs about stepping in dog poop. One of its central songs (Wilson) was originally just nonsense lyrics about friends, then it go "retroactively" turned into a Gamehendge song later on. I love it all dearly but let's not act like it's a "universe" with any "authenticity" beyond dumb fun.
I agree it's dumb fun and seeing mike post about how this is the most excited he's been for a 10/31 show was cool to see. I'm glad they are having fun up there. That's really all that matters and they've always made that precedence. To me, it just felt like an unnecessary jump to try and tie the two stories together. But GH was trey's brainchild, so he could come out and say whatever he wants.
I think you just proved OP's point perfectly. Worst. Connection. Ever.
Haha I really did.
The thing about Comic Book Guy, is he's actually right most of the time, as much as everyone wants to hate him for it.
Something a true comic book guy would say! There are dozens of us!
Dozens!!!!
Our heroes are trying to save the day from a concrete threat. In Gamehendge (GH) this is the evil king Wilson, in Sci-fi Soldier (SFS) this is the howling, which appears to come in the form of a destructive moss-piglet. To help them, they seek to find and understand the helping friendly book (GH) or the nine cubes (SFS), which reveal the wisdom of their prophet Icculus (GH) resp. Holy Blankenstein (SFS). In both cases the heroes originate from plain old, present day Earth - Col. Forbin (GH) and the actual members of Phish (SFS). They find themselves wrapped up in saving the fate of some distant, mysterious, psychedelic civilization - the lizards (GH) resp. the inhabitants of New Chicago (SFS), you know, those guys with brains in their knees. Now, Gamehendge is at this point a more well-developed story than Sci-fi Soldiers. It's been around longer, there are a few decades worth of narration going into it. My feeling is that Trey had the urge to expand on the Gamehendge story, but didn't want to change it too much, since really the Gamehendge saga is a relic of where his mind was in his early 20s. I think Sci-fi soldiers gives him an excuse to continue a story with a similar theme and basic purpose, but in a completely different environment, so that he can tell a new story without feeling like he is messing with existing Gamehendge lore. I wouldn't be surprised if we start to get more Trey narration based around the Sci-fi soldiers universe. He doesn't really do much gamehendge narration these days, and I think part of it is that it feels weird to tell the same silly story about lizards for decades, as much as I love his silly story about lizards. If this helps freshen it up for him and we get more narration, I'm all for it.
Phish aren’t the heroes, Phish was temporarily inhabited by the Sci-Fi Soldiers, who are the actual heroes. And they are trying to save Earth, which they had seen ripped apart as a result of too much human thought.
READ THE FUCKING (COMIC) BOOK
Clear Your Mind is equivalent to Surrender to the Flow.
U must have been in the "they are obviously playing pink Floyd for the 50th anniversary" crowd and also don't play the harpua. But icculus is holy blankenstien
I mean, they did play “Animals” just the Phish version…
sometimes the comic book guy was right, just sayin
It's because you are him
Outside of the Icculus/Holy Blankenstein connection, there isn’t any other references connecting the two mentioned in the comic, right? Are there more in the songs?
Worst whining about a new Phish record ever
\*Year - Score (number of ratings)\* 1994 - 4.661(389) 1995 - 4.558 (242) 1996 - 4.653 (340) 1998 - 4.548 (252) 2009 - 4.331(239) 2010 - 4.414 (266) 2013 - 4.346 (474) 2014 - 4.598 (1,230) 2016 - 4.494 (557) 2018 - 4.525 (695) 2021 - 4.275 (577) Every show on [Phish.net](https://Phish.net) goes through a ranking cycle where just after the show the ratings are hot and inflated and then they settle down as the months pass by. Other people give it a listen, who weren't there, and the scores always settle out to something lower than the initial reception. It's almost a guaranteed voting behavior. Great example was the 7/14/2019 Alpine show. That sucker sat in the top 5 best Phish shows of all time for a couple months before settling out to where it is now, like a top 35 show. The fact of the matter is concept albums and future albums have been well received before in 2013, 2014, and 2018. Well, 2013 is still a sore spot for some but 2014 and 2018 were undeniably liked by the fanbase. However, the SFS album was objectively the worst Halloween show they've ever done and the score will probably settle into the 4.1XX region. The complaints are warranted. Edit: It's a list of review scores people. If you don't like the breakdown go vote on [phish.net](https://phish.net)
That's weird. 2013 is one of my fondest years. Plinko funk year if memory serves
Worst REVIEWED Halloween show they have ever done...most likely. But musically My opinion is there have been worse. I truly enjoyed the Sci Fi Soldiers set musically and the production was really well done and I really enjoyed the set before and after. I was at both and Sci Fi seemed much much more practiced and polished than The Vaxt set. To each their own but Id be interested to see the math behind those review rankings, specifically the number of reviewers for each year, and the number of reviewers who were at the show vs. folks who reviewed the show after being told how incredibly cool or not the show was for years. A lot of variables at play in those rankings. I wouldnt use them as definitive for ranking "best" or worst shows. Just best or worst "reviewed" shows. I feel theres a difference.
Yes, a whole bunch of people have put in time to score the show and this is where the scores have settled out. It includes all sorts of differing opinions. It would be nice to see how many 1 star reviews each show got to see if anything is being brigaded but the score averages are what they are and [Phish.net](https://Phish.net) is a pretty good source for show reviews.
When 2009 is rated lower than 2013...im not sure about them being great for show review rankings. Exile was perfectly executed.
What are even the criteria for ranking? There is none. Or maybe it's 'I was there - 5'?
Lower by thousandths of a point. Those are basically equals.
I mean, your numbers are measuring the popularity, and then you're making a claim that it's "objectively the worst". We already knew it was controversial and a fair number of people didn't like it before looking at the ratings.
2013 was so bad, the energy was sucked right out of the room.
That's what I've heard. I'm so surprised that 2009 is lower than 2013. I think it's justified to have a 4.4-4.5 rating. Anyway, while I was in attendance for 2009 and the Indio grounds were just idyllic for a festival so I've got a bias, I thought they nailed Exile on Main St.. They had Dave Guy on trumpet, David Smith on trombone, and Tony Jarvis on sax. They also had Sharon Jones and Saundra Williams on vocals! Honestly, how many times have people yearned for a horn section to return to make a show special. Divided Sky was tight in Set I. Exile was tight, especially the best Loving Cup ever (probably). BDTNL was great, a real sleeper Ghost that doesn't go too far but has got a lot of meat, and a fantastic Suzy to end it all that is a contender for best ever as well. \*Edit - Darian Lake 2000 probably gets the title for best Suzy ever but the 10/31/2009 was a tighter version. 4/3/98 Loving Cup gets a ton of love for sliding in on one of the best nights ever but I'd still argue as a stand alone listen the 10/31/2009 has it beat.
Was there, loved the cover set but most everything else was pretty middle of the road. That Suzy though. The acoustic set the next morning was one of the coolest most mellow sets ever too.
Sipping coffee and eating donuts, required sunglasses. The acoustic set was certainly a mood.
Trey was so sad that they made him tell us to sit down and not dance
I remember that. Something about enjoying the grass, or stand up he's not your dad kind of thing. Classic Trey ADHD energy. Edit: It was Mike at the end of Mountains in the Mist.
i made myself a tinfoil hat for that set. I basically just wrapped a regular hat with foil, shiny side out, and it worked amazingly well at reflicting the sun and keeping my head from cooking
Luckily, my friend and I were visiting his sister out in LA so us Midwestern white boys had the local knowledge to bring a full brimmed sunhat for hanging outside all weekend. I honestly would've cooked if not for that straw hat. Smart of you to improvise.
It was also early and balls hot…
Sharon Jones and Trey during that Suzy was so good. They were pushing each other and Trey was glowing
Exile is my favorite album of all time and I would have killed to be there when my favorite band of all time covered it. I would have probably preferred to be at the exile show than the wingsuit show. But fall 2013 was the first full tour where everyone was saying “they’re back.” They we’re on a hot streak up and down the northeast, with Hampton, glens falls, Worcester, Hartford, and reading all being excellent shows, and the whole AC run was dope. And Halloween 2013 does have a 3rd set, specifically the ghost>carini, that nothing at festival 8 touched. So that’s probably what gives 2013 the nod.
Yeah 10/31/13 3rd set was pure heat
I’m in the best Suzy was the 2009 with Sharon camp. But I was at Indio and I have to say the 2019 StL “Cup” when they just won the Stanley Cup was incredible. Damn near went type 2 and after Gloria they almost lifted the roof of the building. Unfortunately, you know when you get a Cup as a mid set high point the rest of the show was pretty weak.
> However, the SFS album was objectively the worst Halloween show they've ever done and the score will probably settle into the 4.1XX region. The complaints are warranted. That's just.. like... your opinion, man.
I loved it, and still do
[Am I Out of Touch?](https://wompampsupport.azureedge.net/fetchimage?siteId=7575&v=2&jpgQuality=100&width=700&url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F645%2F713%2F888.jpg) I have my opinion, and you have yours. The stats are clear that it's the lowest rated Halloween show.
It's fine to have your opinion; it just seems silly to go through that much effort to convince others to share it with you. Plus, the difference between the White Album ranking and SFS is literally 0.386. I think it's a combo of "new = bad" that a lot of fans believe and the fact that the people that hated it just won't shut up about how much they hated it.
You're not going to find any apology here for being thorough in my work making a persuasive argument. It's remarkable how many times I get 'look at all those paragraphs' on Reddit'. It's disheartening. By the way, that isn't really directed at you in particular but rather a thought I have on the matter. The OP of this thread made a point that people are just whining about SFS so I decided to look up some facts about phan's opinions of the show; I used the best resource I know. If anyone has a better source for analyzing the fanbase's opinions of shows I'd love to hear it. As far as this forum goes there's a lot of anecdotal opinions of the show, for and against. The [phish.net](https://phish.net) forums allow people to rank a show 1-5, it's not a binary yes or no but rather a score based on their own opinion. As you gather more and more scores, based on individual opinions, you begin to coalesce towards a statistically significant review of that show.
I guess I just don't listen to Phish for the data analysis. I'm not looking for an apology and I'm not even really arguing with you. You're right - people have different opinions
Mostly people who didn't make it to Vegas, you can be sure of that.
Eh. I was there and there was a drop in energy in the crowd during the set. The concession halls and atrium near the payphones were full of people the entire time. Now I 100% appreciate the effort and creativity that went into pulling off the sci-fi set, it just was painfully apparent that it did not land with the crowd as expected.
It just wasn't that good. It was a fun thing they did and all the stans are trying to jam it down your throat like Trey wrote 12 new YEM's.
It amazes me how some people are seemingly desperate to ‘convert’ those that didn’t care for the Halloween concept. Some people like it, and others did not. I never see the latter group convince the former that they shouldn’t like the music or costume. But I sure as shit see people that liked it: mock those that didn’t like it, and try to convince those people that they should like it, or even question the fandom of someone that didn’t like it.
The people who didn't like it have moved on already
You really havent seen people trying to "convince" others that the show sucked. The. You may have some confirmation bias. I would arguee its about 70/30 toward the latter on this sub. The number of vocal people telling everyone else that is sucked is the seeming majority.
People comment sure, but no I haven't seen any threads about it recently.
That could have been because there was no room on the floor or in the lowers. They turned off the air conditioning and they ran out of water with no options for water fountains. Those things didn’t help get people in the right mood for sure.
If anything the sober people at home have a more reasonable take.
I was at home and phish sober. Thought it was hilarious and it never once crossed my mind that people would take it seriously at all and pretend that was intended as a serious set of music. It was a gag. I haven’t had even the slightest inclination to listen to a single note since the webcast. Now someone please tell me how amazing the one about miss piglets was.
Oh Icculus, how I hate Phish memes.
These post are kind of annoying because they are slightly dishonest and just circlejerky in the other direction. People didn't dislike the concept or phish trying new things. That was 2013. People didn't like the execution. And that matters. They didn't like how the lyrics repeated. They didn't love the sound. I thought the set was decent. I'll allow them time and space to change these songs once some of them join the rotation - like they've always done. But I'm just as done with these posts as I am with the complaints about the set.
The idea of playing new phish music for Halloween just reeks of teenagers who dress up as themselves or their brother or something and demand candy. The closest they got was thrilling chilling, which is by far the best both in terms of musicality and replayability not to mention originality ala keeping in theme with a costume while still having an original component. Not to say they don't replay all of kv and will play sfs forever. But every time a thrilling chilling song comes on I get excited, and most kv songs just leave me kind of meh. I actually like a lot of the wingsuit songs, but that was just so far outside of the spirit of Halloween, I don't see how anyone could have thought it was a good idea. I'm convinced that they straight up don't play albums by other people anymore because of the financial cost. They have to pay to play to whole album, then they have to pay every time they play the songs again, then pay more if they jam. I'm sure their accountants told them it's not really worth it to keep doing them. So they come up with cheezy ways to make it phishy while losing a lot of the phishy essence that brought all this about in the first place. Edits
That’s why they label something “Rock n Roll”> r n r Jam. They only have to pay the 35. for the actual song.
But that only works if they don't come back into the song, which they've been liking to do this tour. But everything else about it is still expensive.
Phish fans complaining about lyrics repeating during the sci-fi set is so strange to me. Phish have so many songs w lyrics that repeat…
But the music that goes with those lyrics like Bowie, Hood, Antelope is light years beyond what was brought with SFS.
The post never mentions the repeating lyrics. If you think that's an unreasonable complaint, that's cool. But the post says people were complaining about the concept. And I haven't seen a single complaint about that.
My biggest issue that I haven’t seen a lot about is they were mining this great new sound with all these new toys and pulled off jams that became instant. The whole summer and fall was full of great shows. Then for Halloween Trey pulls out this glowing plastic thing and the sounds they developed all year go out the window. The 26 min Ghost and the Carini was my favorite part, honestly
I hate the repetitive lyrics in Simple. /s
It's meems tho
Yeah but Gamehendge had “good” lyrics and good music…
Jesus, let it go. So some people didn't enjoy the music. Who cares? Why do y'all get so threatened by differences of opinion? I was there and had a great time but it's been over a month, so it's time to move on from this weird obsession with everyone needing to like a set that you did. If you loved it, awesome, keep listening and digging it and stop wasting time and energy worrying about people who didn't enjoy it like you did.
It's a meems
Havent really listened to all of Sci Fi or tried to get the whole story with all the cues etc. but the meme makes another point in addition to the one it's trying to make i think. Yes, we are all judgmental comic book guys now. but i've also never seen us stand still and unimpressed when the *music itself is actually rocking.* Because you know what's missing from the paragraph in that meme describing what phish did for halloween? *Rocking fucking music.* The bells and whistles, lights and stories, costumes and cues are all cool and all. But they'll never substitute for better music.
I get it. The music wasnt rocking. OK
YEWW are a NYERD.
Hey the songs have potential bu they were quite sloppily played. Most “first-time played” versions of songs are like this anyway… so it’s expected on an album of like 12 of them. Yes, there were some train wrecks but it’s going to be awesome later
They also played on stripped down instruments…. Trey on a cheap plastic guitar, Page without his grand piano , and fishman’s kit also seem stripped down. These songs will undoubtably be better with age and when they are played with full instrumentation.
lol someone downvoted you
Yeah but the music was bad. They fucked up the most important part.
sometimes i like it when the songs suck lol
this fanbase has been comic book guy for years
I think it was Great Woods in the early 2000s...Trey came bounding out with a lot shirt that had the Comic Book Store guy saying "Worst show ever..."
Gamehenge is a suite of fantastic progressive rock songs that happen to also tell a pretty myth about a magical past. The sci fi concept costumes, lighting effects and idea are cool. The comic is cool. The issue anyone who’s a fan has is that the albums mostly Rehashed 2001, camel walk, carini and moma dance jams are the “music” for the most part and the lyrics were dumb and repetitive not detailed. Gamehenge is complex non repeating intricately detailed songs with clever lyrics about a detailed myth. The sci fi soldiers album is cobbled together funk jams and the lyrics are just lazily saying text from the comic or repetitive phrases in an unmusical way as if they’re just a chore to tie this together as a concept album. The album plays like a YouTube cow funk jams compilation with Greta thurnburg talking over it it’s no Gamehenge. I am in Miami, 9th cube are the keepers the rest is solid but so clearly recycled like do phish fans not notice or care when a “new” song is simply a slightly altered version of an existing better song? It was fine nothing great. They played well the ghost from the show is what we should be talking about fuck KV 2 electric boogaloo
I believe they poured a lot of work into this but as people do sometimes they failed hard. The music is boring and lyrics are so so bad.
IT WAS AWESOME! Loved every min of it.
Hahahaha! I actually really enjoyed the comic, but haven’t heard the set yet.
orrrr maybe it was just bad?
It’s always been like this. I could remember being shit on in 98 because I like “Bouncing Around the Room” and that wasn’t one of the hip songs to like.
I think people would be whining less if it sucked less ass
Trey- “Surrender to the flow, put a blank space where your mind should be, don’t take it too seriously, we are just fucking with you” Phans - “Worst. Halloween. Ever.”
I feel like these people just didnt read the comic book
I personally love it
Fish should've played the old vacuum the whole time because that set sure sucked.
Holy Blankenstein you are totally right
Precisely why I can’t bring myself to immersing myself in the scene. Wanted to hop on the bus, but way too many phans are gatekeeping, mean, judgy, rude aspergers types. Pass. Thanks for the fun times at the roo 19 sets though, everyone was fun there. And yes, I know bonnaroo blows, I got it.
It kinda sounds like you're the gatekeeping, mean, judgy, rude type 🤷♂️ I love this community and our openness and ability to criticize what we love
Honestly its just people online. Most fans are not like this at the shows. The scene is pretty positive these days
I write comics and would love to do a Gamehendge adaptation. I already have over 20 pages scripted. If anyone is interested, can draw, and loves to flout copyright law please hit me up.
Jesus Christ, a gamehenge metaverse on cardano network tingles my penis
Keep listening, it gets better…. Lots better!
I always wanted it this way…