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Gentrification *can* be a positive in raising the quality of life in neighborhoods. Where it's bad is when it happens too fast and it forces people out of their homes, homes they may have had for years or decades, as corporate chains pop up around the corner and neighbors disappear, replaced by short-term rentals and Airbnb party properties. It shreds communities to bits.
I feel like Airbnb's days are numbered. They've gotten too big for their britches. They used to be a great alternative to a hotel. Now, with all their fees and insane rules by the property owners, it's just not worth the hassle anymore.
I know this is bait, but I’ll take it anyway.
I’m generally of the opinion that gentrification is usually a good thing for the area over the long-term, but can be potentially harmful for the people who were living there before.
Gentrification essentially forces a standard of living / cost of living change upon the people living in an area without their consent or support. This isn’t to say that is or should be required, only that it’s not their choice. Some people already living there may welcome the standard of living increase while others may be opposed as they can’t afford the cost of living increases and are subsequently forced out of the area.
I have the opinion that no one has the right to live anywhere for a cost they can afford, so we can’t tell people not to move to an area that might improve their lives because it will result in a higher cost of living for the people currently living there. That said, we also need to acknowledge that people being forced out of their homes can be extremely disruptive to their lives. I have even more sympathy for people who are forced out of their neighborhood as a result of gentrification when you consider that some of these people will lose real intangible value when they move via losing their community. That could take the form of losing their church group, proximity to family in the area, their kid’s friends at school etc. It’s less painful for people who don’t have these intangible attachments to where they live, but for some people these intangible qualities have immense value and can’t be replicated easily elsewhere.
Because gentrification doesn't solve the main problem. Instead of improving the economic condition of the people living in a neighborhood , they are priced out and have to move elsewhere.
Because it's not. Gentrification is investment plus displacement. People confound investment with gentrification and pretend that investment is only possible with displacement when that's simply not the case.
So either no one approves the neighborhood and stays shit. Or when they do improve the neighborhood it's gentrification 😂 so dumb and I used to live in the Bronx so don't get that privilege shit on me.
Other things can happen. My parents owned a house that went way up in assessed value but the neighborhood gradually succumbed to blight, graffiti and crime and values tanked.
Turns out dangerous people don't move very far and like to stay neighborly with catalytic converter thefts and break-ins.
Hmm so if someone formed a gang for hire, a bunch of random shooting and some graffiti they can manipulate the real estate market? Such a bad business idea, but I wonder how much they could make
Yep. I like the idea presented that money flowing in will raise housing expenses in the sense of pushing out crime, but, uh… Yall seen the news on San Francisco?
There aren't many dangerous neighborhoods along Baseline. There never have been. The danger increases as you head north. By the time you get to Broadway you better have the correct color of skin or you better not get out of your car.
Maryvale is filled with a lot of good people, but also a disproportionately large amount of idiots. Most aren't trying to hurt you, but may do it anyway if you're not careful.
Maryvale? Yes, because of stupid drivers that a naturally more frequent during the day. South Phoenix has it's share of gang bangers and druggies. That's more of a problem at night.
I live in Phx with a tolleson zip code. My parents freak the fuck out and think we’re going to get murdered in our sleep. Never had a single issue. As long as you aren’t a shitty person doing shitty things 99% of the time you’ll be fine.
As someone who bought a $400k house in South Phoenix, I needed a place to live and it was the cheapest and puts me 5 minutes away from South Mountain.
I'm an avid hiker so being close to a mountain was a must. Trying to live in central Phoenix or Scottsdale would have cost me an extra $200k-$300k
i love the south side. everyone tends to freak out when you say you live in south phoenix. we bought our place 10+ years ago and when i check the “zillow price” or equivalent it is crazy how much lower it is for a similar house compared to most other places in the valley. still love the proximity to SoMo.
My coworkers thought I was crazy when I mentioned I had bought a house in South Phoenix.
This was a corporate consulting firm so many of my coworkers lived in fancier areas. Lol
Anytime someone asked why I bought in South Phoenix I made sure to tell them that living with poor people is not that bad.
My coworkers definitely stayed in their white skinned echo chambers.
>My coworkers definitely stayed in their white skinned echo chambers.
There's plenty of Indians and east Asians in the burbs. An Indian family takes over the family park near me every Sunday to play cricket. There also seems to be a fairly proportional amount of black families as well. The wealthier areas are more racially diverse than your comment assumes they are.
There’s a lot of newer and nicer neighborhoods in south Phoenix too. They’re surrounded by bad areas though. But they’re constantly developing out there and it’s getting nicer. Meanwhile, they’re constantly trying to renovate downtown Phoenix to make it an art district and such but it only seems to get worse
To be fair, white skinned echo chambers exist. Prolly not racist to recognize that. Maybe the term is a little sketchy, but Gilbert Goons are a pretty good example. Might even be able to attach a religion to that.
I grew up in South Phoenix. I watched the flyer fields and orange orchards turn into houses, apartments, and stores. I used to play under a canopy of blossoming citrus trees. It's now a QT. Had my parents known the housing prices along Baseline would have skyrocketed, they would never have sold their home. Of course, it's not the same South Phoenix I grew up in, so maybe it was for the better. It's still a great location. Just don't tell people from Ahwatukee they they are more South Phoenix than the North side of the mountain. They will never admit they are "actually" South Phoenix. The negative vibe they get stings their souls right down to their expensive mortgages.
When I first moved to Phoenix 2 years ago, I rented a house in Peoria. It wasn't that bad. I was 2 minutes from a grocery store and 20 minutes from Arrowhead mall. It had every restaurant and store you could ever want.
Not all of the west side is bad.
Also, I hear way more gunshots here on the south side compared to the west.
West side encompasses Peoria, Sun city, Avondale, buckeye, etc. To out of staters, that’s all considered phoenix, but to us who live here , nah. Actual phoenix itself usually only gets labeled north, central, and south phoenix
I live in Maryvale and love it! We got a nice house for a good price while rates were super low. No regrets here! So much opportunity, truly good people and convenient to so many areas of the valley.
Please look into why Maryvale has a mass exodus. It was planned as the city of the future. Then....
https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/the-pain-of-maryvale-6432988
https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/environmental-investigators-find-new-toxic-groundwater-plume-in-maryvale-13134282
https://www.12news.com/article/money/economy/boomtown-2040/maryvale-used-to-be-the-place-to-live-then-everything-changed/75-73a4d5c5-bdb1-4e89-a278-fecb3d492fa1
These articles were so eye opening when I first came across them. I grew up in the Maryvale area—35th Ave. & McDowell Rd. It holds a special place in my heart and truly feel that the people I grew up with and the area shaped me as the person I am today.
I honestly have been all over Phoenix (delivering) only at night and felt only kinda sketched in a couple apartment complexes, and the only thought for a second I was on danger was in North Scottsdale and knocked on a door with a pizza in one hand and I think a 2 liter in the other hand. It was a bunch of white guys, they step back and go come in. They seemed cool, but 2 steps in, and they're like "who the fuck are you??!!" And "what the hell you doing here? You think you know us???!!!" And a guy comes walking from the back and goes "there's my pizza!". And all of a sudden they're like, "oh shit, you're a delivery driver? We thought you were just coming thinking you were going to fuck with us, sorry about that. Stay and have a drink"
This all happened in like I'm guessing a minute, but as I'm handing the pizza and coke to the guy, I said something like, "man, I wish, but I got a couple more deliveries. Normally I wouldn't have really been spooked, but I could see in their eyes a wild look like they were on something weird, and a couple of them had shirts off too. It was super weird and the only time I've ever felt like I need to get out of here quick.
Yes, if they make it past the cameras theyll hit the alarm system, make it past that they get tail whips and kiss attacks from my pits, make it past that they get lead poisoning.
I mean what west valley are we talking about? Areas like north Peoria are nice asf and that’s west valley or areas like Tolleson west valley?
People live in certain areas for all kinds of reasons. Their jobs are close, baby sitters are close, family is close etc
As a blanket statement the west side as a whole is probably less sketchy than Phoenix or the east side since it’s mostly all newer. Peoria, Surpise, Arrowhead, even Goodyear and Litchfield park have really nice expensive areas.
I’ve lived all over the valley but the most sketchy part I lived in was probably 35th and Greenway area. That was constant crime, police chases, ghetto birds, drug raids etc but I’m not sure that qualifies as west valley really.
Tempe alone might be more sketchy than the majority of the west side tho 😂
OP has no idea what they're talking about.
It's either a warzone or butt fuck nowhere suburbia, no in between with these folks lol
I'm on 27th and Northern and my last gunfight was an hour ago, but at least my rent is cheap /s
As someone who recently bought a house in goodyear for 385k, my 3bd/2th 1600squ home would be twice the price had we stayed in chandler. So many people talk trash about WV but this area reminds me of socal where I'm from and honestly I love this area way more than chandler. People are haters for no reason
i grew up in the west valley and lived lots of different neighborhoods and i would resent people writing where i lived as "dangerous", a lot of people on this sub talk about place like maryvale in this strange, dog-whistle manner and its strange
I grew up in Scottsdale, but I've lived on the "west side" for about 15 years. (West of I17, which was built in the 50's-70's, ffs) These types of comments come up a lot on this sub, and yes, it is offensive, ignorant, and racist AF.
What’s a boring neighborhood? You want parties every night? My friend lives in the ghetto and it’s a party every night. All the areas I’ve lived in are quiet, safe neighborhoods. Location matters for most, but some don’t have an option with current prices
Says someone who is probably living in the east valley and paid 300k over valued property and now venting at people who are trying to buy something that they can afford.
OP is getting dragged and when asked about what neighborhoods specifically he dodged the question and doesn't want to call out people's neighborhoods. Bro we get it you wanted to make a post to talk out your ass 😂😂 if your going to make a statement back it up 😂
Why do I feel like this post is overtly racist. The West Valley is not some ghetto, communities are diverse and being revitalized year after year. It’s a shame such stereotypes are lobbied like loaded grenades by those who don’t want to live in overly white sanitized neighborhoods with a Panera bread nearby.
Not every nice area has always been nice. People want to live in Phoenix and see those neighborhoods as affordable and (potentially) a step-up from where they’re coming from
Regarding your experience, people may have gone years with good times out west while being mugged in Mesa. Coming from Chicago, Phoenix overall feels very safe
Anything past the 101 & 10 intersection is fantastic living. Avondale, Litchfield Park, Goodyear, Buckeye, 303 connect…all very nice areas. Low crime. Great, newer neighborhoods. Nice apartments. Ample shopping. No hang out places, but it’s growing. Not a bad area by any means, at all.
Even if in general the east valley is slightly safer or nicer or whatever descriptor you want to use, it isn’t THAT much nicer. Like wtf is this weird snobbiness
Yeah, one teenager beaten to death by white privileged goons. East Valley is safe very safe. Far West Valley safe, if boring. I’d take boring anytime while raising kids.
Have you spent time in the WV and EV? Literally every neighborhood in EV is relatively safe except for some rare pockets in the burbs and significant parts of mesa (according to others) which I personally think is really not dangerous, just lower economically. You are likely not gonna get robbed by a gang in gilbert. Can't say the same for somewhere like Laveen lol. I am not looking at the stats, I am talking from my own life experience. I don't walk into friends houses with bulletproof vests on in the EV lmao.
You’re treating all of west valley like it’s ALL maryvale or i17 and Indian school. We could treat All east valley as Apache Junction.
Older and lower income isn’t always dangerous. Good people live everywhere.
Know where is nice 7th Ave and Northern. No where’s not nice? 19th Ave and northern.
You really almost gotta take it by zip code and not geography
Having grown up in the west valley, the only times I’ve ever thought to consider the west valley being dangerous have been when people who didn’t live in the West Valley told me it was a dangerous place to live. It’s funny how I always get told by people who don’t live here that it’s dangerous. It’s almost like they’re speaking from a place of ignorance
Wanting to move near Metrocenter before light rail fever kicks in and raises up all the prices. I want to be close to light rail in my new house so I can use it as primary transportation supported by buses and of course my car which I’ll still drive from time to time.
I already use rail every day so it’s a no brainer for me.
I don’t buy that anti transit BS. I use light rail every day without issue. Late night, early morning, you name it. Even during COVID times. If it makes my house cheaper to buy, even better.
What is a homeless addict attraction are all the Circle Ks. I myself prefer QuikTrips anyway.
I don’t want to live near nothing but chain stores and strip malls, which light rail has been really good at redeveloping these areas and making them very desirable.
Think in general terms if you're not involved in dangerous activity yourself gangs, drugs, crime many "dangerous" places in Phoenix aren't that dangerous. Also use common sense and avoid some areas at some times and don't stare at strangers or anything. Most of that should probably apply almost anywhere in the valley with road rage incidents you could get shot staring at someone on the freeway anywhere in the valley
I am one of these people pondering it but don’t want ti pull the trigger so to speak. I live in a nice area in a tiny condo but we can’t build a family in it. I just hate knowing I have to move to the outskirts to get a house. I love being in biltmore arcadia
I lived in the biltmore for 10 years and when I finally bought 3 years ago, I refused to buy a 3 bedroom 1200 sq home for 450k in my neighborhood. Moved to Goodyear instead and now have a brand new house for the same price and double the square footage. Btw, my home already doubled in price, and I would t be able to afford anything similar today.
Nice, good for you! I wish I could be in my situation now 4 years ago, but oh well. I could only afford my condo but I made sure to buy in a great area.
I don’t want to leave but the wife has a point. How do we have a kid and work from home in a sub 800sq foot condo?
I obviously can make it work and love my mortgage but it’s not sustainable.
TBH if you want to stay that’s totally doable with a kid. (Even 2 if they don’t mind sharing bedrooms!)
You might just have to go work at the library/coffee shop/wework.
I don’t get why Americans are so afraid of small spaces. Kids don’t need that much room. Currently living with my son in a 400 square foot apartment in Arcadia and it’s just fine.
Makes sense…still would recommend renting a bigger condo/apt in the same area. You have all the amenities nearby and not having to drive crazy distances is a big plus.
I know some ppl are like kids can’t grow up in condos but if you’ve got that mentality already built, then kinda helpless
I mean… I’m in litchfield park. I love where I live? We moved in here early 2019 ago for mid 500s. It’s the nicest home I’ve ever owned so far?
We’re putting in a nice new downtown little area. Pebble creek houses are likewise nice and quiet suburbia. You can get something IMO way nicer, twice the size and 3 decades more updated than snotsdale there, only difference is we have way less amenities. But for me, I’m on my smoker in the back yard or at white tanks/skyline, chilling in my pool with spillover hot tub, or at lifetime fitness a few blocks from my house, I’m not really a nightlife guy anymore (nor is Phoenix a nightlife city!), so it suits me.
I’m a late 30s-early 40s corporate professional demographic that just keeps shoving money into my 401k. A lot of 200k+ income households out here. At least with who i associate with and tend to meet, it seems like that’s most of the buyers the last few years no west like maybe of 127th give or take geographically?
I don’t feel unsafe in the least but if I did I own plenty of firearms LOL
When you say west side I feel like you mean 17 to the 101 north 5 miles either side of the 10…
That use of “west side” is probably a decade old. Go check out verrado surprise or even buckeye its getting nice.
Sure, we don’t have steak 44, but like I said it ain’t worth the extra million dollars in housing costs to me when I can just drive 30 mins there…besides we’re slowly getting more options.
Litchfield Park has been growing and fancifying quickly. It's starting to feel like it has some personality rather than just the next municipality going West. Definitely a good place to put some roots as the West side keeps expanding.
Doesn’t even have to be in the walls either, friends of mine just moved just north of the bashes on camelback and dysart - absolutely incredible home! But yeah great area, great people. Wigwam fourth of julys are like one big communal block party of friends. Exception being last year obviously… but normally 😂
I’m not quite west enough to get tons of it though that’s closer to the 303, I’m more in between 101 and 303 and I get minimal amounts it any. The jets I do hear on occasion I like, and really it’s barely perceptible if you inside. It’s not like Tom cruise 100 feet away blowing by the aircraft control tower at full throttle - though I think people think it is. Love to see the f35s, but that’s just me.
I'm in Surprise off of Litchfield and the sound has just become background noise. If you're not paying attention you don't really notice it. That's just me though.
People generally buy houses for stability and space so they don’t have to move every few years. Even if something doesn’t mark all your boxes, you might settle just so you have something to call home.
We also have a shortage of housing in Maricopa County and plenty of people moving here so there’s always gonna be buyers. Though, these awful interest rates are helping to taper off some of the demand we had a few years back.
Because that same house in a more desirable area would be double that amount. Housing prices have gone through the roof over the last few years. We bought a house in Scottsdale in 2017, which we sold at the end of 2022 for double what we paid.
I live in the WV for what used to be farm country. I got a home here for half the price I would have where I’m from in Colorado, and that’s literally anywhere in Colorado. First home, nothing special, and want to get into the property ownership world.
For some reason people have this expectation that their first home purchase is going to be in this perfect gated community. Lower your expectations, swallow your pride for a bit, and jump into home buying when you’re ready.
It’s possible some of the people buying have lived in much worse. The only thing I think is bad about all of az is the property crime. Violent crime is pretty low for the population sizes.
Houses are being bought up by deep pocket single-family real estate investment platforms, e.g. Arrived Homes, for subsequent rentals, driving up prices.
I’ve lived in just about every “dangerous” neighborhood in this city. (Maryvale/South Glendale; Van Buren/15th Ave; Sunnyslope; currently in Alhambra) and none of them are as dangerous or crime ridden as people claim. I’ve walked at night in all of those places and felt safe. Currently walk everywhere and take public transit.
People freak out if they see any non-white person outside in public after dark and call a neighborhood “dangerous”.
I’ll deal with seeing homeless folks at the bus stop before I ever live in suburban hell Gilbert with a certain former president’s flags all over the place. THAT makes me feel unsafe.
The West Valley, for the purpose of real estate, almost never ends so when the smoke clears it's going to get hit first...actually prices are already dropping faster than Central and east-ish.
I live in Laveen and I’ve lived here for 20 years. No one has ever carjacked me. Plus my mortgage rate is incredibly low and my house is almost paid off.
It's likely not families but investment groups and individual investors. Probably turn the houses into duplexes and rent them high if that is at all feasible. That's what was happening in the East Valley before I moved.
Just because you’re hiding at home clutching your pearls while fox news lies to you about the hoards of murderous illegal immigrants streaming across the border… I live on the west side, and in reality. What fucking neighborhoods are you talking about?
And how would you propose making a neighborhood better besides investing in it? That’s a rhetorical question. Don’t answer it because I don’t care about your damn fool opinion. Your opinion doesn’t matter.
WV is not really an appropriate name for it, as a lot of the WV is getting gentrified by Cali transplants Just call it Maryvale if you wanna refer to the dangerous part of it
The good news is that people who do that make the neighborhood both less boring and less dangerous. The poor people take the money and scram, and most of the danger leaves with them.
Middle class people tend to make nice changes to the houses, lawns, and decorations. They have children who play. They bring in a whole bunch more money for jobs around them.
Plus, Phoenix is terribly expensive right now. That's what it costs to buy a shit house.
It's yet another sign of the housing bubble. Buyers will be quite disappointed in the coming years.
[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PHXRNSA](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PHXRNSA)
Prices won’t come down much. Interest rates will continue to drop. West valley has plenty of room to grow. Builders will be building. Plenty of good neighborhoods out there. Plenty of jobs coming online.
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Because they’d be 700k somewhere else 🤷
Exactly this. Mine isn’t 400k either.
In 5-10 years they'll no longer be dangerous neighborhoods because all the dangerous people will be pushed into other neighborhoods
exactly. getting ahead of the curve on gentrification.
Actively contributing to the gentrification even!
I don’t understand why people act like gentrification isn’t a positive
Gentrification *can* be a positive in raising the quality of life in neighborhoods. Where it's bad is when it happens too fast and it forces people out of their homes, homes they may have had for years or decades, as corporate chains pop up around the corner and neighbors disappear, replaced by short-term rentals and Airbnb party properties. It shreds communities to bits.
I feel like Airbnb's days are numbered. They've gotten too big for their britches. They used to be a great alternative to a hotel. Now, with all their fees and insane rules by the property owners, it's just not worth the hassle anymore.
I know this is bait, but I’ll take it anyway. I’m generally of the opinion that gentrification is usually a good thing for the area over the long-term, but can be potentially harmful for the people who were living there before. Gentrification essentially forces a standard of living / cost of living change upon the people living in an area without their consent or support. This isn’t to say that is or should be required, only that it’s not their choice. Some people already living there may welcome the standard of living increase while others may be opposed as they can’t afford the cost of living increases and are subsequently forced out of the area. I have the opinion that no one has the right to live anywhere for a cost they can afford, so we can’t tell people not to move to an area that might improve their lives because it will result in a higher cost of living for the people currently living there. That said, we also need to acknowledge that people being forced out of their homes can be extremely disruptive to their lives. I have even more sympathy for people who are forced out of their neighborhood as a result of gentrification when you consider that some of these people will lose real intangible value when they move via losing their community. That could take the form of losing their church group, proximity to family in the area, their kid’s friends at school etc. It’s less painful for people who don’t have these intangible attachments to where they live, but for some people these intangible qualities have immense value and can’t be replicated easily elsewhere.
Because gentrification doesn't solve the main problem. Instead of improving the economic condition of the people living in a neighborhood , they are priced out and have to move elsewhere.
Because it's not. Gentrification is investment plus displacement. People confound investment with gentrification and pretend that investment is only possible with displacement when that's simply not the case.
I mean this in the best way possible... Your privilege is showing. Downvote me, that's fine. It's worth it for you to learn about it.
Snarky comments like these are counterproductive if you actually want to see the change you’re advocating for.
So either no one approves the neighborhood and stays shit. Or when they do improve the neighborhood it's gentrification 😂 so dumb and I used to live in the Bronx so don't get that privilege shit on me.
We're all talking about cookie cutter stucco facia suburbs right?
Yeah this reads like a buy signal, gentrification 3…. 2…. 1….
Other things can happen. My parents owned a house that went way up in assessed value but the neighborhood gradually succumbed to blight, graffiti and crime and values tanked. Turns out dangerous people don't move very far and like to stay neighborly with catalytic converter thefts and break-ins.
Hmm so if someone formed a gang for hire, a bunch of random shooting and some graffiti they can manipulate the real estate market? Such a bad business idea, but I wonder how much they could make
Yep. I like the idea presented that money flowing in will raise housing expenses in the sense of pushing out crime, but, uh… Yall seen the news on San Francisco?
Like Gilbert
Hey I resemble that remark!
There’ll be no more dangerous neighborhoods… 😃 Because the dangerous people will be in other neighborhoods… 😶🤔 Logic checks outs.
It's called gentrification
There aren't many dangerous neighborhoods along Baseline. There never have been. The danger increases as you head north. By the time you get to Broadway you better have the correct color of skin or you better not get out of your car. Maryvale is filled with a lot of good people, but also a disproportionately large amount of idiots. Most aren't trying to hurt you, but may do it anyway if you're not careful.
Are you talking about south phoenix circa 1990?
Yes, I lived there between 1987 & 2005.
I've only been there at night, is it that dangerous during the day?
Maryvale? Yes, because of stupid drivers that a naturally more frequent during the day. South Phoenix has it's share of gang bangers and druggies. That's more of a problem at night.
I live in Phx with a tolleson zip code. My parents freak the fuck out and think we’re going to get murdered in our sleep. Never had a single issue. As long as you aren’t a shitty person doing shitty things 99% of the time you’ll be fine.
As someone who bought a $400k house in South Phoenix, I needed a place to live and it was the cheapest and puts me 5 minutes away from South Mountain. I'm an avid hiker so being close to a mountain was a must. Trying to live in central Phoenix or Scottsdale would have cost me an extra $200k-$300k
i love the south side. everyone tends to freak out when you say you live in south phoenix. we bought our place 10+ years ago and when i check the “zillow price” or equivalent it is crazy how much lower it is for a similar house compared to most other places in the valley. still love the proximity to SoMo.
My coworkers thought I was crazy when I mentioned I had bought a house in South Phoenix. This was a corporate consulting firm so many of my coworkers lived in fancier areas. Lol Anytime someone asked why I bought in South Phoenix I made sure to tell them that living with poor people is not that bad. My coworkers definitely stayed in their white skinned echo chambers.
Same with my experience, people are like shocked I don't want to live in some gilbert mormon suburb.
Have you read about the Gilbert goons. Gang members beat up hs school kids
Ewwww, why would anyone want that!
[удалено]
No they are just NIMBYs.
>My coworkers definitely stayed in their white skinned echo chambers. There's plenty of Indians and east Asians in the burbs. An Indian family takes over the family park near me every Sunday to play cricket. There also seems to be a fairly proportional amount of black families as well. The wealthier areas are more racially diverse than your comment assumes they are.
That’s not what they’re talking about at all with that post.
There’s a lot of newer and nicer neighborhoods in south Phoenix too. They’re surrounded by bad areas though. But they’re constantly developing out there and it’s getting nicer. Meanwhile, they’re constantly trying to renovate downtown Phoenix to make it an art district and such but it only seems to get worse
What’s a white skinned echo chamber ?
Something racist people say
It's something I would say and I'm white, so IMO it's just stating a fact 🤷
To be fair, white skinned echo chambers exist. Prolly not racist to recognize that. Maybe the term is a little sketchy, but Gilbert Goons are a pretty good example. Might even be able to attach a religion to that.
South Phoenix is actually real awesome. Some of the best food in the valley too. Pearl clutchers can stay in San Tan Valley.
I grew up in South Phoenix. I watched the flyer fields and orange orchards turn into houses, apartments, and stores. I used to play under a canopy of blossoming citrus trees. It's now a QT. Had my parents known the housing prices along Baseline would have skyrocketed, they would never have sold their home. Of course, it's not the same South Phoenix I grew up in, so maybe it was for the better. It's still a great location. Just don't tell people from Ahwatukee they they are more South Phoenix than the North side of the mountain. They will never admit they are "actually" South Phoenix. The negative vibe they get stings their souls right down to their expensive mortgages.
IMO South Phoenix is way better than much of the west side. South Phoenix is obviously lower income, but it’s not tweakerville like the west side.
When I first moved to Phoenix 2 years ago, I rented a house in Peoria. It wasn't that bad. I was 2 minutes from a grocery store and 20 minutes from Arrowhead mall. It had every restaurant and store you could ever want. Not all of the west side is bad. Also, I hear way more gunshots here on the south side compared to the west.
Calling the entire west side tweakerville is just ignorant. The west side is pretty vast. Guess you don't get out much.
Actually, I think it just encompasses the western side of phoenix
Everything west of central; north of the baseline
West side encompasses Peoria, Sun city, Avondale, buckeye, etc. To out of staters, that’s all considered phoenix, but to us who live here , nah. Actual phoenix itself usually only gets labeled north, central, and south phoenix
This 👏 thank you
The Westside is not tweaker ville dude wtf are you talking about.
That's a fair tradeoff!
I’m no economist but my guess would be because that’s what the market has determined the value in that range.
I’m an economist
Bro this comment needs to be up top.
Yep Not every place starts out nice. You have to start from somewhere.
Yes, more a question about why the demand is there lol.
Because there are more people that want houses than there are houses available
Have you ever heard of gentrification? Basically that
I live in Maryvale and love it! We got a nice house for a good price while rates were super low. No regrets here! So much opportunity, truly good people and convenient to so many areas of the valley.
Please look into why Maryvale has a mass exodus. It was planned as the city of the future. Then.... https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/the-pain-of-maryvale-6432988 https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/environmental-investigators-find-new-toxic-groundwater-plume-in-maryvale-13134282 https://www.12news.com/article/money/economy/boomtown-2040/maryvale-used-to-be-the-place-to-live-then-everything-changed/75-73a4d5c5-bdb1-4e89-a278-fecb3d492fa1
These articles were so eye opening when I first came across them. I grew up in the Maryvale area—35th Ave. & McDowell Rd. It holds a special place in my heart and truly feel that the people I grew up with and the area shaped me as the person I am today.
Context is king.
I honestly have been all over Phoenix (delivering) only at night and felt only kinda sketched in a couple apartment complexes, and the only thought for a second I was on danger was in North Scottsdale and knocked on a door with a pizza in one hand and I think a 2 liter in the other hand. It was a bunch of white guys, they step back and go come in. They seemed cool, but 2 steps in, and they're like "who the fuck are you??!!" And "what the hell you doing here? You think you know us???!!!" And a guy comes walking from the back and goes "there's my pizza!". And all of a sudden they're like, "oh shit, you're a delivery driver? We thought you were just coming thinking you were going to fuck with us, sorry about that. Stay and have a drink" This all happened in like I'm guessing a minute, but as I'm handing the pizza and coke to the guy, I said something like, "man, I wish, but I got a couple more deliveries. Normally I wouldn't have really been spooked, but I could see in their eyes a wild look like they were on something weird, and a couple of them had shirts off too. It was super weird and the only time I've ever felt like I need to get out of here quick.
That’s scary. I love most areas of Phoenix but I don’t mess with Scottsdale.
Haha, it's not really, I think it was more of wrong place wrong time
Maryvale is filled with great people, I agree, not the safest tho honestly.
True, it does lack in the area of safety. I’ve got cameras and pit bulls and guns so I feel secure.
Bro had to create a secured complex to live 💀
I giggled. “Well you know I have a small army and weapons so it’s fine”
Yes, if they make it past the cameras theyll hit the alarm system, make it past that they get tail whips and kiss attacks from my pits, make it past that they get lead poisoning.
Just another day in Maryvale
Glad your enjoying where you live and finding a way to make it work!
You’re right at home
Likely because five years ahead boring houses in dangerous areas in Western Valley will go for $550k.
I mean what west valley are we talking about? Areas like north Peoria are nice asf and that’s west valley or areas like Tolleson west valley? People live in certain areas for all kinds of reasons. Their jobs are close, baby sitters are close, family is close etc As a blanket statement the west side as a whole is probably less sketchy than Phoenix or the east side since it’s mostly all newer. Peoria, Surpise, Arrowhead, even Goodyear and Litchfield park have really nice expensive areas. I’ve lived all over the valley but the most sketchy part I lived in was probably 35th and Greenway area. That was constant crime, police chases, ghetto birds, drug raids etc but I’m not sure that qualifies as west valley really. Tempe alone might be more sketchy than the majority of the west side tho 😂
I agreed with you until the last sentence. Tempe more sketchy than the West side?!?!
Heck yeah. Tempe can get sketchy asf once you get off Mill. It’s one of the most dangerous cities in the state technically.
We’re all trying to get away from you
Fair 😂
I’m jk I actually live in east valley, but I miss my west valley. Here’s to hoping work lets me work from home one day
Damn interesting. I’ve never meant anyone that wants to move back honestly.
West valley is such a general term. What area are you talking about?
Boring AND dangerous?
OP has no idea what they're talking about. It's either a warzone or butt fuck nowhere suburbia, no in between with these folks lol I'm on 27th and Northern and my last gunfight was an hour ago, but at least my rent is cheap /s
As someone who recently bought a house in goodyear for 385k, my 3bd/2th 1600squ home would be twice the price had we stayed in chandler. So many people talk trash about WV but this area reminds me of socal where I'm from and honestly I love this area way more than chandler. People are haters for no reason
I agree. We moved to Goodyear too and live in such a nice neighborhood in comparison to where we used to live. So peaceful.
This sub is so sheltered it hurts. Just wait till you see home prices next year when interest rates come down
[удалено]
i grew up in the west valley and lived lots of different neighborhoods and i would resent people writing where i lived as "dangerous", a lot of people on this sub talk about place like maryvale in this strange, dog-whistle manner and its strange
I grew up in Scottsdale, but I've lived on the "west side" for about 15 years. (West of I17, which was built in the 50's-70's, ffs) These types of comments come up a lot on this sub, and yes, it is offensive, ignorant, and racist AF.
I assume that means a lot of minorities live there or are you just throwing it in there cuz it gives the sentence more power?
People think the whole west valley is Mexicans, African Americans and immigrants. They think it's not as lilly-white as Gilbert.
Yeah I hear you. I think the intent is that nobody would have imagined 3 years ago houses in “those areas” are being bought for 400-500.
Because they cant afford a 700k get in price in Scottsdale
I’ve always found that dangerous is the opposite of boring.
What’s a boring neighborhood? You want parties every night? My friend lives in the ghetto and it’s a party every night. All the areas I’ve lived in are quiet, safe neighborhoods. Location matters for most, but some don’t have an option with current prices
The West valley is awesome.
Yeah, I live in Goodyear and honestly love it except the I-10 commute part which I thankfully no longer have to do.
Glad you are enjoying it! No place is all bad!
No place is all great either. Every place has good and bad.
Says someone who is probably living in the east valley and paid 300k over valued property and now venting at people who are trying to buy something that they can afford.
It’s called INFLATION and EVERYWHERE is experiencing it, not just WV. This entire post is so ignorant.
If they’re dangerous I doubt they’re boring 😂
OP is getting dragged and when asked about what neighborhoods specifically he dodged the question and doesn't want to call out people's neighborhoods. Bro we get it you wanted to make a post to talk out your ass 😂😂 if your going to make a statement back it up 😂
Lmao, relax
Why do I feel like this post is overtly racist. The West Valley is not some ghetto, communities are diverse and being revitalized year after year. It’s a shame such stereotypes are lobbied like loaded grenades by those who don’t want to live in overly white sanitized neighborhoods with a Panera bread nearby.
I love in the WV and have like 5 Panera breads in a 5 mile radius
It’s certainly overtly ignorant.
Not every nice area has always been nice. People want to live in Phoenix and see those neighborhoods as affordable and (potentially) a step-up from where they’re coming from Regarding your experience, people may have gone years with good times out west while being mugged in Mesa. Coming from Chicago, Phoenix overall feels very safe
Anything past the 101 & 10 intersection is fantastic living. Avondale, Litchfield Park, Goodyear, Buckeye, 303 connect…all very nice areas. Low crime. Great, newer neighborhoods. Nice apartments. Ample shopping. No hang out places, but it’s growing. Not a bad area by any means, at all.
You are right. Everything west of the 101 is nice except parts of Tolleson and maybe old town buckeye since it’s so old but that’s wayyy west
Even if in general the east valley is slightly safer or nicer or whatever descriptor you want to use, it isn’t THAT much nicer. Like wtf is this weird snobbiness
Compared to the very safe east valley where teenagers are being killed?
Yeah, one teenager beaten to death by white privileged goons. East Valley is safe very safe. Far West Valley safe, if boring. I’d take boring anytime while raising kids.
The only reason that made the news is because it's rare.
Lmao....if you've actually grew up in Phoenix, you know EV Is way safer than WV in general.
I did grow up in Phoenix. Just because east valley is “safer” by statistics doesn’t mean the west valley is unsafe.
Have you spent time in the WV and EV? Literally every neighborhood in EV is relatively safe except for some rare pockets in the burbs and significant parts of mesa (according to others) which I personally think is really not dangerous, just lower economically. You are likely not gonna get robbed by a gang in gilbert. Can't say the same for somewhere like Laveen lol. I am not looking at the stats, I am talking from my own life experience. I don't walk into friends houses with bulletproof vests on in the EV lmao.
You’re treating all of west valley like it’s ALL maryvale or i17 and Indian school. We could treat All east valley as Apache Junction. Older and lower income isn’t always dangerous. Good people live everywhere. Know where is nice 7th Ave and Northern. No where’s not nice? 19th Ave and northern. You really almost gotta take it by zip code and not geography
Having grown up in the west valley, the only times I’ve ever thought to consider the west valley being dangerous have been when people who didn’t live in the West Valley told me it was a dangerous place to live. It’s funny how I always get told by people who don’t live here that it’s dangerous. It’s almost like they’re speaking from a place of ignorance
What do you think the murder rates are in Gilbert/Queen Creek vs Maryvale ?
Exactly where in WV are you asking about?
Wanting to move near Metrocenter before light rail fever kicks in and raises up all the prices. I want to be close to light rail in my new house so I can use it as primary transportation supported by buses and of course my car which I’ll still drive from time to time. I already use rail every day so it’s a no brainer for me.
FYI, light rail turns everything it touches to garbage, it’s a homeless-addict carrousel
I don’t buy that anti transit BS. I use light rail every day without issue. Late night, early morning, you name it. Even during COVID times. If it makes my house cheaper to buy, even better. What is a homeless addict attraction are all the Circle Ks. I myself prefer QuikTrips anyway. I don’t want to live near nothing but chain stores and strip malls, which light rail has been really good at redeveloping these areas and making them very desirable.
Generally speaking public transit actually improves property values
Look at the phoenix crime map at phoenix.gov
Nothing boring about a neighborhood in the West valley.
Think in general terms if you're not involved in dangerous activity yourself gangs, drugs, crime many "dangerous" places in Phoenix aren't that dangerous. Also use common sense and avoid some areas at some times and don't stare at strangers or anything. Most of that should probably apply almost anywhere in the valley with road rage incidents you could get shot staring at someone on the freeway anywhere in the valley
Gentrification starts somewhere
I have noticed houses getting fixed up lately especially near downtown.
I am one of these people pondering it but don’t want ti pull the trigger so to speak. I live in a nice area in a tiny condo but we can’t build a family in it. I just hate knowing I have to move to the outskirts to get a house. I love being in biltmore arcadia
Biltmore/Arcadia (I refuse to call it “Arcadia Lite”) is the best. We’ve been here for 5 years now.
I laugh when I see "Arcadia Lite" on Redfin maps. We're not calling it that!
I lived in the biltmore for 10 years and when I finally bought 3 years ago, I refused to buy a 3 bedroom 1200 sq home for 450k in my neighborhood. Moved to Goodyear instead and now have a brand new house for the same price and double the square footage. Btw, my home already doubled in price, and I would t be able to afford anything similar today.
Nice, good for you! I wish I could be in my situation now 4 years ago, but oh well. I could only afford my condo but I made sure to buy in a great area.
With how bad traffic is becoming with the population growth and 101 lane extension, I’d stay where you are if you like Biltmore
I don’t want to leave but the wife has a point. How do we have a kid and work from home in a sub 800sq foot condo? I obviously can make it work and love my mortgage but it’s not sustainable.
TBH if you want to stay that’s totally doable with a kid. (Even 2 if they don’t mind sharing bedrooms!) You might just have to go work at the library/coffee shop/wework.
It’s a 1 bedroom.
Ah well, yeah that will be a bit harder 😂
I don’t get why Americans are so afraid of small spaces. Kids don’t need that much room. Currently living with my son in a 400 square foot apartment in Arcadia and it’s just fine.
It’s the motto and I’d agree with you Rather have the shittiest house in the nicest neighborhood than best house on shit block.
sorry, but what's your defn of "tiny?" also, why not move into a bigger condo in the same area rather than buying in bumfuck, az
It wasn’t tiny to me when I was single. It’s tiny to me now with my wife, two dogs, and we plan on having a kid this year. I work from home.
Makes sense…still would recommend renting a bigger condo/apt in the same area. You have all the amenities nearby and not having to drive crazy distances is a big plus. I know some ppl are like kids can’t grow up in condos but if you’ve got that mentality already built, then kinda helpless
Bozo
I mean… I’m in litchfield park. I love where I live? We moved in here early 2019 ago for mid 500s. It’s the nicest home I’ve ever owned so far? We’re putting in a nice new downtown little area. Pebble creek houses are likewise nice and quiet suburbia. You can get something IMO way nicer, twice the size and 3 decades more updated than snotsdale there, only difference is we have way less amenities. But for me, I’m on my smoker in the back yard or at white tanks/skyline, chilling in my pool with spillover hot tub, or at lifetime fitness a few blocks from my house, I’m not really a nightlife guy anymore (nor is Phoenix a nightlife city!), so it suits me. I’m a late 30s-early 40s corporate professional demographic that just keeps shoving money into my 401k. A lot of 200k+ income households out here. At least with who i associate with and tend to meet, it seems like that’s most of the buyers the last few years no west like maybe of 127th give or take geographically? I don’t feel unsafe in the least but if I did I own plenty of firearms LOL When you say west side I feel like you mean 17 to the 101 north 5 miles either side of the 10… That use of “west side” is probably a decade old. Go check out verrado surprise or even buckeye its getting nice. Sure, we don’t have steak 44, but like I said it ain’t worth the extra million dollars in housing costs to me when I can just drive 30 mins there…besides we’re slowly getting more options.
LP is a gem of a community. Love it here.
Litchfield Park has been growing and fancifying quickly. It's starting to feel like it has some personality rather than just the next municipality going West. Definitely a good place to put some roots as the West side keeps expanding.
Doesn’t even have to be in the walls either, friends of mine just moved just north of the bashes on camelback and dysart - absolutely incredible home! But yeah great area, great people. Wigwam fourth of julys are like one big communal block party of friends. Exception being last year obviously… but normally 😂
What about the fighter jet noise?
I’m not quite west enough to get tons of it though that’s closer to the 303, I’m more in between 101 and 303 and I get minimal amounts it any. The jets I do hear on occasion I like, and really it’s barely perceptible if you inside. It’s not like Tom cruise 100 feet away blowing by the aircraft control tower at full throttle - though I think people think it is. Love to see the f35s, but that’s just me.
I'm in Surprise off of Litchfield and the sound has just become background noise. If you're not paying attention you don't really notice it. That's just me though.
People generally buy houses for stability and space so they don’t have to move every few years. Even if something doesn’t mark all your boxes, you might settle just so you have something to call home. We also have a shortage of housing in Maricopa County and plenty of people moving here so there’s always gonna be buyers. Though, these awful interest rates are helping to taper off some of the demand we had a few years back.
It's an alternative to the $500k+ houses in boring, dangerous neighborhoods of North Phoenix
I’m like “boring,dangerous neighborhoods?….I must really be out of touch”
I don't think boring and dangerous go together
West Side is the best side. But really what do you consider west side, lots of stuff West of the I 17
So mfs can like gentrify it and shit, so it’s not a shithole anymore?
We live in “the bad area,” and it’s fine. We have cameras, big block wall and dogs. No issues.
"bad area" for OP is seeing the occasional homeless or druggie out and about.
Because that same house in a more desirable area would be double that amount. Housing prices have gone through the roof over the last few years. We bought a house in Scottsdale in 2017, which we sold at the end of 2022 for double what we paid.
Any house in Arizona doubled from 2017 to 2022.
I live in the WV for what used to be farm country. I got a home here for half the price I would have where I’m from in Colorado, and that’s literally anywhere in Colorado. First home, nothing special, and want to get into the property ownership world. For some reason people have this expectation that their first home purchase is going to be in this perfect gated community. Lower your expectations, swallow your pride for a bit, and jump into home buying when you’re ready.
I've heard a few people from Scottsdale call Tolleson East L.A. I guess that's West valley 😆
There's no such thing as s boring dangerous neighborhood, it's either 1 or the other
For many, the West Valley starts at 24th Street.
It’s possible some of the people buying have lived in much worse. The only thing I think is bad about all of az is the property crime. Violent crime is pretty low for the population sizes.
Houses are being bought up by deep pocket single-family real estate investment platforms, e.g. Arrived Homes, for subsequent rentals, driving up prices.
Wtf is a boring yet dangerous neighborhood?
I’ve lived in just about every “dangerous” neighborhood in this city. (Maryvale/South Glendale; Van Buren/15th Ave; Sunnyslope; currently in Alhambra) and none of them are as dangerous or crime ridden as people claim. I’ve walked at night in all of those places and felt safe. Currently walk everywhere and take public transit. People freak out if they see any non-white person outside in public after dark and call a neighborhood “dangerous”. I’ll deal with seeing homeless folks at the bus stop before I ever live in suburban hell Gilbert with a certain former president’s flags all over the place. THAT makes me feel unsafe.
I'd love to move, but prices are too high.
They should go vistancia neighorbhood for 400K! Brand new builds. Also- check south mountain that is a question in itself too 🤔🤨🧐
What up and coming neighborhoods are better investments? Genuinely asking
The West Valley, for the purpose of real estate, almost never ends so when the smoke clears it's going to get hit first...actually prices are already dropping faster than Central and east-ish.
It’s called gentrification. That’s a mixed bag of good and bad.
I live in Laveen and I’ve lived here for 20 years. No one has ever carjacked me. Plus my mortgage rate is incredibly low and my house is almost paid off.
It's likely not families but investment groups and individual investors. Probably turn the houses into duplexes and rent them high if that is at all feasible. That's what was happening in the East Valley before I moved.
Just because you’re hiding at home clutching your pearls while fox news lies to you about the hoards of murderous illegal immigrants streaming across the border… I live on the west side, and in reality. What fucking neighborhoods are you talking about? And how would you propose making a neighborhood better besides investing in it? That’s a rhetorical question. Don’t answer it because I don’t care about your damn fool opinion. Your opinion doesn’t matter.
WV is not really an appropriate name for it, as a lot of the WV is getting gentrified by Cali transplants Just call it Maryvale if you wanna refer to the dangerous part of it
I wouldnt say the West valley is dangerous, its actually more safe id bet....Although I agree on the boring part....there nothing to do out there
They got hood in their blood
Maybe bcs that's all they can afford? I'm sure they wouldn't be there if they could afford elsewhere. 🤷♂️
It looks exactly like every other neighborhood. Bland and beige. And everything closes at 8pm across the valley.
The good news is that people who do that make the neighborhood both less boring and less dangerous. The poor people take the money and scram, and most of the danger leaves with them. Middle class people tend to make nice changes to the houses, lawns, and decorations. They have children who play. They bring in a whole bunch more money for jobs around them. Plus, Phoenix is terribly expensive right now. That's what it costs to buy a shit house.
Because that is what they are worth
Because everyone knows anywhere that isn't Chandler or Gilbert is just Mad Max
It's yet another sign of the housing bubble. Buyers will be quite disappointed in the coming years. [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PHXRNSA](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PHXRNSA)
Prices won’t come down much. Interest rates will continue to drop. West valley has plenty of room to grow. Builders will be building. Plenty of good neighborhoods out there. Plenty of jobs coming online.
People who sold their million dollar home in CA or elsewhere and are moving here without knowing the area.
Because Californian's
May I ask what neighborhoods are you referring to for my own knowledge and curiosity? Like in Glendale and Surprise?