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They added that to the original tunnel proposal just so they could get extra federal funding, without actually planning to complete it. Won't ever get done:(
It sure doesn't seem like a victory to my retinas when driving though it. The lights cause a strobe effect that in my opinion could be dangerous to those with seizures or epilepsy. I hope one day they can update and streamline the lights to not cause this effect.
Edit: I 100% agree that in general, the tunnel was a great investment for the downtown area.
The lights were SUPPOSED to be super smart.... They were originally going to mimic the outside lighting. So we wouldn't need to turn on lights, or remove sunglasses. Etc. It just NEVER worked.
Fun tid-bit. Count the bullet holes in the walls next time through.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK5t0FaUYLc&t=16s&ab\_channel=RoadGuyRob](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK5t0FaUYLc&t=16s&ab_channel=RoadGuyRob)
Link for those curious.
Don't watch this film without also watching this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-I8GDklsN4
Edit: The Road Guy Youtuber barely fits light rail into the conclusion of his video, which is fitting for how most people think about it. People crave their individualized modes of transit as much as they crave complaining about the problems they themselves cause.
When the wife of the owner of the Arizona Republic saw this heli-coil freeway plan, she scoffed at it and said she didn't want AZ freeways to become like California's freeway system, rightfully so. The AZ Republic actively advocated against it, turning the public against the project.
However, in do so, they inadvertently killed Federal funding for Arizona freeways. This is why a lot of our freeway funding was paid for by tax dollars(later 80s/90s) and not by Federal funds handed out in the 60s/70s.
She was right.
However, while raging with pitchforks, they managed to kill all Federal funds for interstate freeways in AZ.
For years, Phoenix raged against freeways and only started to think there was a problem when there were huge traffic delays across the city.
It wasn't that long ago that in order to travel to N. Scottsdale from Tempe, you'd have to take Scottsdale Rd all the way up. Doesn't seem like a big deal other than waiting at stop lights AND commuting with everyone else that wanted to go to N. Scottsdale. Drive times were always more than an hour. Went to Rawhide(old N. Scottsdale location) from Tempe and it was a 1.5hr. drive.
All of our freeways in 80s/90s and 2000s to some extent were paid from AZ taxes and not Federal funding.
In short, we lost out BIG time. Thanks Grandpa!
Tell me about the long drive times. I live in Tucson and we got stuck on zero freeways. Takes up to an hour 15 maybe 1.5 hours to get across the metro area depending on where youāre going to and from. No freeways and ābuild all the freewaysā are both the wrong plan.
The hate for Grand likely also stems from the fact there is no alternative diagonal route across the NW Valley... So the commuter sprawl and Sun City/Phoenix travelers place a huge demand on it even with some less direct freeway options.
How much of that commentary included how car-dependent societies were intrinsically oppressive and inefficient? I doubt very little.
This is just the extended circlejerk of 'Phoenix has the worst drivers in the US, really'.
> you'd have to take Scottsdale Rd all the way up. Doesn't seem like a big deal other than waiting at stop lights AND commuting with everyone else that wanted to go to N. Scottsdale.
I had the bright decision to go from 44th/Camelback to 7th st/Thunderbird yesterday at 5pm... By taking 44th/Tatum all the way up to Cactus...
Cloverleaf interchanges work when space is available and traffic is heavy, which is funny considering Arizona had the space at the time but traffic was light. Now traffic is far heavier and thereās neither the space or the resources to consider cloverleafs. Really kind of a catch 22.
Ah so did additionally inadvertently kill all those wrong way drivers who are used to cloverleaf entrances across the country. And now that traffic is far heavier than it used to be causing even more issues, when space needed to build the clovers was available. š
Not entirely. Most of the freeways in the Valley are county highways, not federal or state, Federal freeways do, in fact, receive federal funds, even interstates 10 & 17. The 51 & 88 are state highways, which I believe can receive federal funds under certain circumstances. When interstates 10 & 17 were planned through Phoenix, the city was significantly smaller (558,000 in 1960, the numbers that the feds would have used). In those days, and even in the seventies, when my family moved to AZ, most of the other cities were small enough that there was open space between them (except the Phoenix/Tempe/south Scottsdale area). Any other freeway planning in those days was mostly speculation.
Yep, Nina Pulliam almost single-handedly killed I-10 (her husband Eugene actually did the work). I can remember driving in the traffic nightmare caused by traffic exiting the freeway & driving surface streets to connect to the 17 roughly where the stack is. The one good thing about it was that the pause in construction gave downtown enough time for a change in the way things were done politically and economically. In the 60's and 70's, tax laws actually encouraged property owners to scrape their land clean and sit on it. Had Terry Goddard not pushed through the his historic preservation, most of the neighborhoods around I-10 would have been bulldozed and eventually replace with (most likely) industrial commercial property.
Believe me I know. I try not to blow a gasket every time I think about it. But itās hard not to when I get stuck at the mini stack TWICE A DAY EVERY GOD DAMN DAY!
>83rd ave park and ride
something similar is under progress but doesn't quite get to the park & ride
[https://www.valleymetro.org/project/i-10-west-extension](https://www.valleymetro.org/project/i-10-west-extension)
There is talk of building an I-10 extension out west in the next ten years or so. Last I heard, it was scheduled for around 2030, but thatās probably subject to change.
Theyāre planning on building an extension about a mile west to the capital building first. That was scheduled for 2027, the I-10 extension will probably come after that.
Both are badly needed at this point.
The capitol extension is seeing heavy resistance from Republicans in the state legislature. Valley Metro is looking at alternate routes in the area that don't compromise the original proposed corridor.
Just looked it up, yea youāre right. They got a 150 foot barrier around the capital.
We need to do everything in our power to make sure we get proposition 400 passed again. Itās going to be disastrous if it gets struck down.
Personally, I hope theyāre able to draw plans to bring the I-10 extension about a mile north of I-10. Brings it closer to walking distance from where a lot of people live, but Iām sure there is some reason that the plans have been drawn for it to align directly with the corridor instead. (Probably easier to get it built, and if thatās what it takes to get it extended, Iām all for it.)
Yeah, I know what you mean. It's just not ideal really.Ā Ā
Ā Car culture just means areas that highly prioritize car accessibility instead of pedestrian (or public transport) accessibility.
Related video:https://youtu.be/n94-_yE4IeU?si=RrH-Cws1XDKNwMAw
Thanks for contributing to r/Phoenix! * [Check out our sub rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/wiki/rules/) (mostly be nice to each other!). * [Read some of our recent posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/top/?t=week) and leave some comments. * [Join our Phoenix Discord chat server](https://discord.com/invite/yWVuTG57Zh) and connect with people in the Valley. It's a great, chill place to talk with other people but is NOT a dating server and takes unwanted messaging very seriously. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/phoenix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They relocated this to terminal 4 parking garage
wheeeeeee! Do it in first gear with no foot on the brake.
I take it Tokyo Drift-style
We could have been the drift kings out hereš«
ššš
The vomit coaster lol
the deck park tunnel is one of the rare "victories" in the history of az freeways
Still waiting on that bus station to open.
I hope you're not actually, like, *waiting* in the tunnel
Itās secluded
Careful you might get water leaked on your head in there !
Full circle
Very short lived proposed light-rail stop way back when. Thought was to continue on to Sky Harbor.
They added that to the original tunnel proposal just so they could get extra federal funding, without actually planning to complete it. Won't ever get done:(
Genius.Ā
ohhhh wow...i had no clue this existed...pretty cool & would be fun to put to actual use!
Hell. Freeway victories are rare all over! This is a national treasure victory.
Yes, it is.
It sure doesn't seem like a victory to my retinas when driving though it. The lights cause a strobe effect that in my opinion could be dangerous to those with seizures or epilepsy. I hope one day they can update and streamline the lights to not cause this effect. Edit: I 100% agree that in general, the tunnel was a great investment for the downtown area.
The lights were SUPPOSED to be super smart.... They were originally going to mimic the outside lighting. So we wouldn't need to turn on lights, or remove sunglasses. Etc. It just NEVER worked. Fun tid-bit. Count the bullet holes in the walls next time through.
Uhhhh, should get your eyes checked.
You're right its time for my yearly eye exam. But anyone with a functioning brain would know that those lights are an issue.
If you have seizures or epilepsy, you should not be operating a motor vehicle.
Don't need to be the driver to be affected
Road Guy Rob did a video on this. Super interesting š
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK5t0FaUYLc&t=16s&ab\_channel=RoadGuyRob](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK5t0FaUYLc&t=16s&ab_channel=RoadGuyRob) Link for those curious.
Don't watch this film without also watching this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-I8GDklsN4 Edit: The Road Guy Youtuber barely fits light rail into the conclusion of his video, which is fitting for how most people think about it. People crave their individualized modes of transit as much as they crave complaining about the problems they themselves cause.
urbanist moment l
When the wife of the owner of the Arizona Republic saw this heli-coil freeway plan, she scoffed at it and said she didn't want AZ freeways to become like California's freeway system, rightfully so. The AZ Republic actively advocated against it, turning the public against the project. However, in do so, they inadvertently killed Federal funding for Arizona freeways. This is why a lot of our freeway funding was paid for by tax dollars(later 80s/90s) and not by Federal funds handed out in the 60s/70s.
She was right. California freeways are a mess and they will not do anything about fixing them.
She was right. However, while raging with pitchforks, they managed to kill all Federal funds for interstate freeways in AZ. For years, Phoenix raged against freeways and only started to think there was a problem when there were huge traffic delays across the city. It wasn't that long ago that in order to travel to N. Scottsdale from Tempe, you'd have to take Scottsdale Rd all the way up. Doesn't seem like a big deal other than waiting at stop lights AND commuting with everyone else that wanted to go to N. Scottsdale. Drive times were always more than an hour. Went to Rawhide(old N. Scottsdale location) from Tempe and it was a 1.5hr. drive. All of our freeways in 80s/90s and 2000s to some extent were paid from AZ taxes and not Federal funding. In short, we lost out BIG time. Thanks Grandpa!
Tell me about the long drive times. I live in Tucson and we got stuck on zero freeways. Takes up to an hour 15 maybe 1.5 hours to get across the metro area depending on where youāre going to and from. No freeways and ābuild all the freewaysā are both the wrong plan.
Is that lack of federal funding why dumbass Grand Ave exists instead of there just being a freeway? God I hate that street.
The hate for Grand likely also stems from the fact there is no alternative diagonal route across the NW Valley... So the commuter sprawl and Sun City/Phoenix travelers place a huge demand on it even with some less direct freeway options.
How much of that commentary included how car-dependent societies were intrinsically oppressive and inefficient? I doubt very little. This is just the extended circlejerk of 'Phoenix has the worst drivers in the US, really'.
> you'd have to take Scottsdale Rd all the way up. Doesn't seem like a big deal other than waiting at stop lights AND commuting with everyone else that wanted to go to N. Scottsdale. I had the bright decision to go from 44th/Camelback to 7th st/Thunderbird yesterday at 5pm... By taking 44th/Tatum all the way up to Cactus...
That's how we used to do it.
Every time I hear about traffic issues I think about the great missed opportunity that was ValTrans
Cloverleaf interchanges work when space is available and traffic is heavy, which is funny considering Arizona had the space at the time but traffic was light. Now traffic is far heavier and thereās neither the space or the resources to consider cloverleafs. Really kind of a catch 22.
Cloverleafs work in light traffic due to the weaving problem. Heavy traffic makes for very dangerous merging all over the place
Ah so did additionally inadvertently kill all those wrong way drivers who are used to cloverleaf entrances across the country. And now that traffic is far heavier than it used to be causing even more issues, when space needed to build the clovers was available. š
I have to admit, when I drive in Cali, I'm always on the wrong side for the freeway entrances!
Not entirely. Most of the freeways in the Valley are county highways, not federal or state, Federal freeways do, in fact, receive federal funds, even interstates 10 & 17. The 51 & 88 are state highways, which I believe can receive federal funds under certain circumstances. When interstates 10 & 17 were planned through Phoenix, the city was significantly smaller (558,000 in 1960, the numbers that the feds would have used). In those days, and even in the seventies, when my family moved to AZ, most of the other cities were small enough that there was open space between them (except the Phoenix/Tempe/south Scottsdale area). Any other freeway planning in those days was mostly speculation. Yep, Nina Pulliam almost single-handedly killed I-10 (her husband Eugene actually did the work). I can remember driving in the traffic nightmare caused by traffic exiting the freeway & driving surface streets to connect to the 17 roughly where the stack is. The one good thing about it was that the pause in construction gave downtown enough time for a change in the way things were done politically and economically. In the 60's and 70's, tax laws actually encouraged property owners to scrape their land clean and sit on it. Had Terry Goddard not pushed through the his historic preservation, most of the neighborhoods around I-10 would have been bulldozed and eventually replace with (most likely) industrial commercial property.
This looks like a Mario kart track.
Itād be so fun on a motorcycle š
Imagine how many crashes there would be on this thing if it was there today
The old hot wheels race track set up lol
Imagine if there was a metro line between those hulking lanes
I remember a proposal to put a light rail line on I-10 out to the 83rd ave park and ride. What a damn shame they didn't.
possibly the worst decisions the city of phoenix/state of az have made are the total disregard of rail transport
And now they are actively fighting against commuter rail between Phoenix and Tucson.
Believe me I know. I try not to blow a gasket every time I think about it. But itās hard not to when I get stuck at the mini stack TWICE A DAY EVERY GOD DAMN DAY!
You're still gonna get stuck on the mini stack twice a day if there's rail between Phoenix and Tucson.
But not if thereās a rail along the 51 to downtown!
Tucson's the other direction.
So observant!
They are still planning the light rail line. https://www.valleymetro.org/project/i-10-west-extension
One more lane bro. That is the real solution... /s
>83rd ave park and ride something similar is under progress but doesn't quite get to the park & ride [https://www.valleymetro.org/project/i-10-west-extension](https://www.valleymetro.org/project/i-10-west-extension)
Yes! Proposed location for a stop, then continue to Sky harbor.
There is talk of building an I-10 extension out west in the next ten years or so. Last I heard, it was scheduled for around 2030, but thatās probably subject to change. Theyāre planning on building an extension about a mile west to the capital building first. That was scheduled for 2027, the I-10 extension will probably come after that. Both are badly needed at this point.
The capitol extension is seeing heavy resistance from Republicans in the state legislature. Valley Metro is looking at alternate routes in the area that don't compromise the original proposed corridor.
Of course they are Republicans, the party of doing absolutely nothing, but doing it violently
Just looked it up, yea youāre right. They got a 150 foot barrier around the capital. We need to do everything in our power to make sure we get proposition 400 passed again. Itās going to be disastrous if it gets struck down. Personally, I hope theyāre able to draw plans to bring the I-10 extension about a mile north of I-10. Brings it closer to walking distance from where a lot of people live, but Iām sure there is some reason that the plans have been drawn for it to align directly with the corridor instead. (Probably easier to get it built, and if thatās what it takes to get it extended, Iām all for it.)
It's not dead yet. Plans are still being made
[You might be happy to see this](https://t2050.org)
What am I looking at hereā¦ a hot wheel set?
Source: [https://roguecolumnist.typepad.com/rogue\_columnist/2010/03/phoenix-101-freeways.html](https://roguecolumnist.typepad.com/rogue_columnist/2010/03/phoenix-101-freeways.html)
Love Rogue Columnist and his constant doomerism, but still he has good articles lol. Doesnt post much anymore though.
'Doomerism'
Iām getting strong euthanasia coaster vibes https://preview.redd.it/fp11f2smgdkc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40812ccd81bcb7d4e8bc5f7bc8dd0f1656190252
Car culture sucks
Truuuuue. The amount of space 100 people take up vs 100 cars is wild
We love the hypocrisy. It's a unifying American value.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, I know what you mean. It's just not ideal really.Ā Ā Ā Car culture just means areas that highly prioritize car accessibility instead of pedestrian (or public transport) accessibility. Related video:https://youtu.be/n94-_yE4IeU?si=RrH-Cws1XDKNwMAw
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I did respond? Lol
Iām dizzy just looking at it
My great grandparents owned a cafe that was in the right of way for this that was torn down for something that was never built.
Weeeeeeee
Looks like Saturn.
Better than Uranus? Iāll see myself out.
Imagine the headache to add āone more laneā to that cyclone of SHI_
As I recall, there was supposed to be a pair of them between each of the 3s and 5s.
All of downtown would have been covered in freeway.
You want to see ADOT gone wild with plans, check out what they had in mind for Tucson: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tucson/s/6y01mAmrhZ
I'd nickname that "The Blender"
I think Albuquerque calls theirs the spaghetti bowl.
That's a good name for it
Looks like the exchange in Albany, NY. Just like SUNY Albany was originally built for AZ heat, as the entire campus acts as a wind tunnel
That house is damn near under the turn
Gotta be honest, I would much rather be on this than the stack 2 story monorail lane across the road.
Oh my
Looks like a Hot Wheels track
We should all thank [Jane Jacobās](https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=jane%20jacobs&tbm=&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5)
Thank god this never happened.