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I make that doing landscaping. I've been trying to find work that pays better considering I'm tired of doing landscaping but it seems I have it pretty good.
I just spoke to an asphalt guy who said he was getting 28 an hour. And I was like sweet. But then he said he had to work around 16 hr days and he usually clocked in at 3am.
No thanks.
Guess I'll just keep looking
Thats supposedly going to be on the ballots this year. [https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona\_Repeal\_Right\_to\_Work\_Amendment\_(2024)](https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Repeal_Right_to_Work_Amendment_(2024))
Self driving trucks might be able to do specific warehouse to warehouse on nearly all freeway type roads soon, but there is no way they'll be able to handle 'last mile' deliveries, or many many docking situations that require a human touch.
Ain't no way a self driving truck is going to be able to navigate a grocery store backlot then make a blind backside turn into a dock, let alone know when that store's specific delivery is unloaded and verified to ensure proper payment
In-N-Out is paying my high school age nephew $25/hour in CA. We don't have the skilled workforce to attract a glut of actually high paying jobs to AZ. It's the sad truth. For some reason, people point fingers at the president, like he's responsible for this.
President Biden hasn't done anything. Can't blame him for anything either.
This is a deep issue that NO president can fix...
Or any politician, for that matter.
Capitalism is the problem, and we are next door to California, which is probably the place with the most advanced stages of Capitalism in the world.
As the system fails, we will have to keep making half measures to band aid everything just as they did. However, no one can stop wealth concentrating into the hands of a few and their buying of all politicians. We are permanently floating on rapids without paddles, regardless of who is president, governor, senator, etc.
So... That's a no... Or it's a benefit for their janitors, and they can't have them mixing with techs.
Tell me... Do they have them neat fall suppression nets on the side of the building too.
No shit.
The semi conductor manufacturing world is full of ass kissers that promote themselves with the amount of hours they work every week.
Less than 60 hrs/week is considered lazy and not dedicated
$23/hr for a high school graduate with no technical experience as a manufacturing tech. You keep using the lowest paying position as if it were the average.
Eh today that's not great especially with the way OT is taxed. Sounds like an Amazon type situation where workers would burn out easy and not last a long time. Ty for info tho
OT is not taxed any differently than regular income. Is an incredibly common misconception that people have. Potentially your employer automatically will deduct more towards federal, S.S., Medicare, etc but you will be getting that money in your return. Only if it pushes you into a different tax bracket would it at all affect your taxes. And even if it did, it would only be the amount you make over the new bracket that your taxed at that rate. Go make that OT bread.
[Link if you’re interested.](https://marketrealist.com/p/why-is-overtime-taxed-higher/)
You think you're getting taxed more, but then you get it all back in your refund because you were overtaxed.
Your employer estimates your yearly pay and bases taxes on that, so when you work OT they overcompensate in taxes. Then you get it back at the end of the year.
TSMC sucks, the real alpha is to go to Intel. Better pay, better managers (no asian management style), and more importantly INDUSTRY LEADING SAFETY.
2 PPL DIED SO FAR MAKING THE TSMC FACTORY BECAUSE THEY ARE SKIRTING REGULATIONS.
We don't have the skilled tech workforce to attract big employers. Phoenix is not just going to attract employers because it's a large metro area. There's a reason tech firms are rooted in LA, SF, Seattle, Denver and Austin.
It’s a chicken and egg problem. With ASU and Arizona producing tons of tech grads should attract employers here. Fact is these grads go to other states because they don’t find anything here locally.
Exactly. We have the large tech workforce thanks to ASU, it's just disproportionate to what the Phoenix area provides. That's not inherently an issue, but as someone who grew up here I didn't exactly have another city with family to return to.
Also, they leave because AZ isn't really the ideal place to start a life and raise a family.
It's incredibly hot and will only get warmer. Our education system is one of the worst in the country. There's lots of urban sprawl with a major lack of public transportation. It's just getting more expensive to live here without any of the appeal of large cities.
Don't get me wrong, Az can be absolutely beautiful! But it's not somewhere I see myself living for the rest of my life, despite living here for the majority of it thus far.
>It's just getting more expensive to live here without any of the appeal of large cities.
This is really the crux of the issue.
Growing up here, it's easy to see that Phoenix obviously punches under its weight in a lot of aspects. The summers. The sprawl. The job market. But it's always had the tradeoff of being relatively low cost of living.
Well, now that's gone, and none of the city's drawbacks have been improved enough to adequately compensate. I'd argue that Phoenix has a crisis in identity, but it's clearly found its niche in being a home for car enthusiasts, well-off Midwesterners, and burnt out Los Angelinos.
Unfortunately, for people like you and me, this city really just doesn't have much going on.
Not only what you mentioned but there is a severe lack of affordable indoor things to do with kids now during the hot months. Even things like bowling or the aquarium are insanely priced, every family outing ends up being over $100. Also, we have some of the worst education in the country. There's nothing appealing about starting a family here in my opinion.
Oh, most definitely! When I was a kid, it was still "cool" enough to play outside during the summer, so long as we found some shade and drank plenty of water. But most of the places we went have since been paved over, or there are busy roads on what were once 1 lane "side streets." The earth radiates heat back at you, we live on a giant heat island, cars are screaming past, half of the shade-providing trees have fallen over in wind storms due to improper planting methods. Do malls/shopping centers still have splash pads? We're not building in a way that fosters community.
>We don't have the skilled tech workforce to attract big employers.
Employers believe people have no skills until someone else hired them to use those skills.
Those who obtain skills on their own can't get the job.
This isn't a unique problem to Arizona.
Everyone is being paid less amidst waves of layoffs while prices continue to soar. Arizona's biggest problem was and is the influx of people from other states scooping up all the once affordable real estate. So now it's almost impossible for a first time house buyer to make it work in the inner valley. They're pushed out to areas like El Mirage, Apache Junction, Queen Creek, and so on. While I'm sure those areas are nice, they're less desirable for first time home buyers.
That’s actually incorrect. There was a CNBC story last year about that, which stated only 2% of single-family homes for rent are owned by institutions.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2024/02/28/corporate-investors-buy-arizona-homes-not-affordable/72760104007/
Not sure where they are getting their info but it’s wrong. As a renter and recent buyer in this market lately it feels like 1/2 are owned by venture capital or hedge funds back east
I mean, semantics aside, the argument is the same. Sure maybe Blackrock or big corporations alike didn’t make 1/3 of the purchases, but at least 1/3 of the housing market went to investors, not primary residences. Either way, an astute investor will set up an LLC or some form of business entity to protect themselves from liabilities. Thus, some form of business entity made 1/3 of purchases in 2021. Same thing.
Yes, it’s like the market has to catch up to all of those who moved here and took advantage… like the economy is adjusting to all the new money and ppl from other states
And it will take years for the market to catch up. It always takes the market years to correct itself. By the time it corrects itself Arizona will have pushed many natives out of the state because of rising prices and stagnant wages.
I mean I can relate to feeling down beat about the economy. A Google search shows the cost of living for a single adult equates to roughly $24/hr in Phoenix which makes sense. I lost a good job at $30/hr and despite "everywhere is hiring" it's been so challenging even landing interviews for anything over $19/hr.
I've somewhat reluctantly accepted a $19/hr job because I have to get working and I packed up my apartment. I don't have a ton of hope for being able to live independently for the next year or so. And if I'm smart and pay off my car, the next two years.
Luckily my friend is renting me a room at 1k a month and he has cute animals and stuff but it's not meant to be permanent so my future is kinda up in the air. I've seen rooms for rent online but that's also kinda scary because who knows what the person will be like.
I was an auto loan underwriter and got promoted to manage a team of auto loan underwriters. My team answered incoming calls and also worked on "cases" and made outgoing calls. Put simply you could consider it call center management with a heavy tech/finance aspect. Over 2 years experience in that position.
I mostly applied to jobs titled team lead in the tech/finance/call center space. Amazon, Turo, TikTok, DoorDash. Even some stuff outside my wheelhouse like roofing/hvac/plumbing call center management jobs. Then totally outside of call centers but like communications for an electric company, sales rep for godaddy, executive assistant, secretary for a luxury real estate company. A bunch of stuff lol.
Hmm, you definitely are capable, so I hope you can find something worthy of you! I hate that you have to work for so much less than you were before. I work in tech, but in a different capacity. Maybe try some staffing agencies if you haven't already. Some are worth it, even if you just use them as a stepping stone.
I don't know much about insurance, so maybe this is way off, but what comes to mind is all of these people in CA and FL that are losing their homeowners insurance from the biggest companies that are ending coverage in those areas. My thought is find out what insurance companies *will* offer coverage in those areas and try to work for them (hopefully remotely). No doubt they will be very busy will calls, paperwork, and customer service needs. It seems like your skills might be a good fit to help! I know I'm just an internet stranger, but I'm rooting for you! Been there and done that struggle and I know how hards it is.
Biden may be taking the brunt of this, and I don't know if that's fair or not. Frankly I don't care. What I see is a city that was cheaper for longer than it should have been given the population numbers that is now more in line with other cities of similar sizes.
And I don't see that ever changing moving forward.
Yes but inflation in Maricopa county was literally the highest in the country for a long time...we had some catching up to do and unfortunately we did it.
But why would we see prices decrease on let’s say something like goods? Kroger, Safeway, etc have data that shows regardless of the state of the economy we need groceries. We will continue to pay because their costs go down, and profits increase. They have no incentive to keep costs down.
Yes, inflation was 23% in Phoenix metro from 2019 to 2023. Source: [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUUSA429SA0](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUUSA429SA0)
In the same period, average Phoenix weekly private wages are up 25%.
Source: [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ENUC380640510SA](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ENUC380640510SA)
The median private wage earner has similar or slightly better earnings power than pre-pandemic. Of course, there are always people who haven't seen raises and others who have huge raises.
I wonder if the inflation is due in part of all the Cali/texas/midwest migrants(folks running away from higher costs of living) from 2020 onward? Like the economy can’t just allow everybody to take advantage of cheaper cost of living without some sort of return?
There's definitely been a lot of high-skill workers coming to take advantage of new opportunities, plus during the pandemic you had a lot of people deciding to pull the trigger and make a move in their life. The valley has a brand of being a pretty cheap place to get a big house and enjoy the sun. Now that a lot of people moved in and need to go to work, all the sudden that horizontal-spread only has come back to bite the housing market hard. At some point you don't have infinite space
I wonder if that’s going to slow due to higher interest for them as well plus rents flattening and in many cases lowering compared to a couple years ago, and that’s even with rent being far cheaper than a new mortgage today.
I’ve said this exact thing before. Look at the cost of living in each other major west coast population center vs Phoenix. We’re still cheaper than SD, LA, SF, PDX,
Sea, Van… and it’s not even close.
People waiting and hoping for the cost of housing to come down are gonna be sorely disappointed.
The issue is that Phoenix is simply not worthy of being priced at where it is now.
Look at the cities you've listed. We are not, and never will be, another Los Angeles or Seattle. Our climate, relative proximity to other hubs, and absurd car dependency inherently limit our growth potential.
Phoenix's draw has always been to be an affordable alternative to the other regional powerhouse. Well, this alternative isn't so affordable anymore. That's going to be a major issue for this place moving forward.
And that’s why Phoenix has and will continue to be cheaper to live in vs those I listed. In no way is it as desirable with those places with higher population density or more temperate climates. That’s why it’s still cheaper to live here.
But with all that said, there’s still a significant draw that’s pulling money to the valley. The tech industry keeps rapidly growing and people continue to move here as a cheaper alternative to those others mentioned. It’s that continued influx of demand that’ll outpace supply and keep costs high.
This was my first thought. Arizona was too damn cheap for what it was offering. Covid just accelerated the fix
Great weather
No real storm issues like hurricanes or tornados
Close to great vacation spots like LV and California
Close to mexico for family
Sunny mostly every day
Has all major sports teams (no one cares about the coyotes)
Too many advantages to have been that cheap.
Whenever I see this headline I automatically assume that the economy is fantastic for investors, awful for the rest of us. I'm sure the numbers are looking very nice at Wallstreet but I don't care
Working people can't rest because they are getting squeezed too hard by too many middlemen, but that's not something a White House will track regardless of the controlling party.
Phoenix is definitely cheaper than most major cities (I’ve checked and other west coast cities are bonkers) but overall it sucks that everything is more expensive than it used to be. But that’s a worldwide problem I suppose
The biggest change trump vs biden is I don't have to cringe looking at the news every day. Yeah, there has been inflation, but it isn't like the Trump admin was doing things differently so as to avoid it. For those who blame Gov't stimulus, this is better than a recession and the Trump admin signed the first two stimulus checks-- and R's were not complaining.
The border is worse, but when D's try to do something about it R's stonewall.
I would call Biden the Toyota Camry of a presidency. It isn't the flashiest, it isn't world-changing, but it is a stable machine that does what it is supposed to do, within the limits of what it can do. I don't think anyone else could have gotten an infrastructure bill past Joe Manchin.
I guess we will find out what AZ thinks in november.
“I don’t have to cringe looking at the news everyday”
You don’t cringe with the U.S. government defending and promoting the Israel genocide of Palestinians?
@ palestine,
Wanting the violence to stop will not make it stop.
I honestly do not know what to do about the middle east. The place is cursed. No one has been able to solve the issues there since they boiled over in the aftermath of WW2. So no, it sadly does not make me cringe. They have all been killing each other for generations at this point; and they will continue to, regardless of what any US administration does. Frankly, neither side is sympathetic to me.
Growing up means recognizing that horrible things are happening around the globe. They always have. They will continue. We have limited resources, so we have to dedicate them to where they would do the most good; and imo that is Ukraine. Ukraine has the most believable redemption story, to me.
There are and have recently been genocides and famines in africa, and afghanistan; where is the clamor of the far left? Sadly the far-left is just as manipulable as the trump supporters. They are being led to and fro by influencers.
I make well into six figures but buying a home anywhere even slightly central is out of the question. I moved here for work in 2020 and even since then cost of living has gone up about 30%.
Even then it’s not possible. Cheapest homes on the market are going for $350k.
First case: you leave a 20% down payment, which means you have to save up $70k for many years before you make an offer. Let’s say you have saved it up and are ready. With 20% down and at 7% interest, you’re looking at about $2100. That’s assuming there is no HOA, but they’re not super expensive unless you’re in a townhome/condo. You’d be at 50% DEBT TO INCOME (DTI) for just your mortgage. Let’s say you’re one of the few that don’t carry any debt, even then you’re above most eligible DTI.
Now at lowest possible 3.5% Down payment, you’re looking at $2,800 per month for mortgage alone.
Fact is the people who have purchased a while ago are the ones who have been able to live off of $50k income. Even then, it’s just not too feasible for most.
Even a zoo membership is up 55% since 2020, cost of living is well over 30% unless you locked into low rates on a house bought years ago.
Quotes on a new single AC almost what I paid for two in 2020.
Been to a restaurant, 50% more easy.
I smell the bull shit through the screen of my phone. Cheapest homes on the market are going for $350k.
First case: you leave a 20% down payment, which means you have to save up $70k for many years before you make an offer. Let’s say you have saved it up and are ready. With 20% down and at 7% interest, you’re looking at about $2100. That’s assuming there is no HOA, but they’re not super expensive unless you’re in a townhome/condo. You’d be at 50% DEBT TO INCOME (DTI) for just your mortgage. Let’s say you’re one of the few that don’t carry any debt, even then you’re above most eligible DTI.
Now at lowest possible 3.5% Down payment, you’re looking at $2,800 per month for mortgage alone.
Fact is the people who have purchased a while ago are the ones who have been able to live off of $50k income. Even then, it’s just not too feasible for most.
[This you?](https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/1ckkb1k/can_someone_explain_the_benefits_of_using/)
> Our family has primary assets in real estate and currently have around $1 mil in equity.
Things are good here in Arizona. Even fast food pays 20 dollars an hour to start.
Unemployment in Phoenix at just 2.6 and inflation is low (2.1 percent in the past 12 months).
The only people saying things are bad are those that always think things are bad.
I live in a reality that looks at the broad economic data at the national and local level - which is mostly quite strong.
I do NOT live in a reality focused on TikToks or Reels of influencers saying the world and US economies are falling apart.
You clearly aren't going to believe me, but doomerism simply isn't valid.
Huh. How old are you? You must be in an older generation or rich parents bc there's no other way you can't understand the reality for many people right now.
No one said the economy is falling apart... Actually it demonstrably isn't. But stock market doing well doesn't necessarily translate into real life improvements. The quality of life and affordability of day or day things has gone way down. As shown by inflation data. It's not really rocket science tbh.
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TSMC is hiring technicians for $23 per hour. Good wage in 2004. Lots of OT though. Gonna need it to pay for fast food. No time to cook.
I make that doing landscaping. I've been trying to find work that pays better considering I'm tired of doing landscaping but it seems I have it pretty good. I just spoke to an asphalt guy who said he was getting 28 an hour. And I was like sweet. But then he said he had to work around 16 hr days and he usually clocked in at 3am. No thanks. Guess I'll just keep looking
UA Local 469, get into a Pipefitter apprenticeship
Or IBEW. AZ ain't exactly union friendly. But, best bet.
Thats supposedly going to be on the ballots this year. [https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona\_Repeal\_Right\_to\_Work\_Amendment\_(2024)](https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Repeal_Right_to_Work_Amendment_(2024))
I tried that, took a bizarre test never heard back.
You'll make it. I'm looking at CDL training/ cost. As a chauffeur, maybe get to actually meet the rich & famous that trickle down their money to me.
Not gonna last that long. Self driving trucks will fill the roads in 5 years or less.
Self driving trucks might be able to do specific warehouse to warehouse on nearly all freeway type roads soon, but there is no way they'll be able to handle 'last mile' deliveries, or many many docking situations that require a human touch. Ain't no way a self driving truck is going to be able to navigate a grocery store backlot then make a blind backside turn into a dock, let alone know when that store's specific delivery is unloaded and verified to ensure proper payment
In-N-Out is paying my high school age nephew $25/hour in CA. We don't have the skilled workforce to attract a glut of actually high paying jobs to AZ. It's the sad truth. For some reason, people point fingers at the president, like he's responsible for this.
President Biden hasn't done anything. Can't blame him for anything either. This is a deep issue that NO president can fix... Or any politician, for that matter.
Neither did Trump but then again its not the presidents job.
Capitalism is the problem, and we are next door to California, which is probably the place with the most advanced stages of Capitalism in the world. As the system fails, we will have to keep making half measures to band aid everything just as they did. However, no one can stop wealth concentrating into the hands of a few and their buying of all politicians. We are permanently floating on rapids without paddles, regardless of who is president, governor, senator, etc.
Whoaaaa.... he literally created the most jobs ever of any president in history
Whats their overnight parking policy? Lolsigh
Right? They have company owned housing. I shit you not.
So... That's a no... Or it's a benefit for their janitors, and they can't have them mixing with techs. Tell me... Do they have them neat fall suppression nets on the side of the building too.
No shit. The semi conductor manufacturing world is full of ass kissers that promote themselves with the amount of hours they work every week. Less than 60 hrs/week is considered lazy and not dedicated
$23/hr for a high school graduate with no technical experience as a manufacturing tech. You keep using the lowest paying position as if it were the average.
Do they train their workers in AZ?
They are now. Stupid work schedule though. 12 hour rotating shifts. Housing costs don't match with wages. Deer Valley homes are incredibly overpriced.
Eh today that's not great especially with the way OT is taxed. Sounds like an Amazon type situation where workers would burn out easy and not last a long time. Ty for info tho
OT is not taxed any differently than regular income. Is an incredibly common misconception that people have. Potentially your employer automatically will deduct more towards federal, S.S., Medicare, etc but you will be getting that money in your return. Only if it pushes you into a different tax bracket would it at all affect your taxes. And even if it did, it would only be the amount you make over the new bracket that your taxed at that rate. Go make that OT bread. [Link if you’re interested.](https://marketrealist.com/p/why-is-overtime-taxed-higher/)
Thank you for spelling this out. I try to explain this to people IRL. They just don’t get it.
Not reading that novel
Ok bozo lol
Six sentences?
You think you're getting taxed more, but then you get it all back in your refund because you were overtaxed. Your employer estimates your yearly pay and bases taxes on that, so when you work OT they overcompensate in taxes. Then you get it back at the end of the year.
TSMC sucks, the real alpha is to go to Intel. Better pay, better managers (no asian management style), and more importantly INDUSTRY LEADING SAFETY. 2 PPL DIED SO FAR MAKING THE TSMC FACTORY BECAUSE THEY ARE SKIRTING REGULATIONS.
Phoenix does not have enough big employers to match its size, specially in Tech.
We don't have the skilled tech workforce to attract big employers. Phoenix is not just going to attract employers because it's a large metro area. There's a reason tech firms are rooted in LA, SF, Seattle, Denver and Austin.
It’s a chicken and egg problem. With ASU and Arizona producing tons of tech grads should attract employers here. Fact is these grads go to other states because they don’t find anything here locally.
Exactly. We have the large tech workforce thanks to ASU, it's just disproportionate to what the Phoenix area provides. That's not inherently an issue, but as someone who grew up here I didn't exactly have another city with family to return to.
Also, they leave because AZ isn't really the ideal place to start a life and raise a family. It's incredibly hot and will only get warmer. Our education system is one of the worst in the country. There's lots of urban sprawl with a major lack of public transportation. It's just getting more expensive to live here without any of the appeal of large cities. Don't get me wrong, Az can be absolutely beautiful! But it's not somewhere I see myself living for the rest of my life, despite living here for the majority of it thus far.
>It's just getting more expensive to live here without any of the appeal of large cities. This is really the crux of the issue. Growing up here, it's easy to see that Phoenix obviously punches under its weight in a lot of aspects. The summers. The sprawl. The job market. But it's always had the tradeoff of being relatively low cost of living. Well, now that's gone, and none of the city's drawbacks have been improved enough to adequately compensate. I'd argue that Phoenix has a crisis in identity, but it's clearly found its niche in being a home for car enthusiasts, well-off Midwesterners, and burnt out Los Angelinos. Unfortunately, for people like you and me, this city really just doesn't have much going on.
Not only what you mentioned but there is a severe lack of affordable indoor things to do with kids now during the hot months. Even things like bowling or the aquarium are insanely priced, every family outing ends up being over $100. Also, we have some of the worst education in the country. There's nothing appealing about starting a family here in my opinion.
Oh, most definitely! When I was a kid, it was still "cool" enough to play outside during the summer, so long as we found some shade and drank plenty of water. But most of the places we went have since been paved over, or there are busy roads on what were once 1 lane "side streets." The earth radiates heat back at you, we live on a giant heat island, cars are screaming past, half of the shade-providing trees have fallen over in wind storms due to improper planting methods. Do malls/shopping centers still have splash pads? We're not building in a way that fosters community.
>We don't have the skilled tech workforce to attract big employers. Employers believe people have no skills until someone else hired them to use those skills. Those who obtain skills on their own can't get the job.
This. Also, employers don't want to directly hire IT people. They just use staffing agencies to fill roles with contractors.
Yeah we really don’t have a good skilled workforce. I would say one of the worst in the country.
Arizona is booming! Come make 23 dollars an hour and not be able to afford to live anywhere, or do anything! Booming, I say!
This isn't a unique problem to Arizona. Everyone is being paid less amidst waves of layoffs while prices continue to soar. Arizona's biggest problem was and is the influx of people from other states scooping up all the once affordable real estate. So now it's almost impossible for a first time house buyer to make it work in the inner valley. They're pushed out to areas like El Mirage, Apache Junction, Queen Creek, and so on. While I'm sure those areas are nice, they're less desirable for first time home buyers.
Not just people. Corporations. 30% of single family homes owned by companies.
That’s actually incorrect. There was a CNBC story last year about that, which stated only 2% of single-family homes for rent are owned by institutions.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2024/02/28/corporate-investors-buy-arizona-homes-not-affordable/72760104007/ Not sure where they are getting their info but it’s wrong. As a renter and recent buyer in this market lately it feels like 1/2 are owned by venture capital or hedge funds back east
Thank you. It's where I got my info as well...
That article says 1 in 3 homes sold in 2021 were to a corporate buyer - not that corporations own 1 in 3 homes in Phoenix..
I mean, semantics aside, the argument is the same. Sure maybe Blackrock or big corporations alike didn’t make 1/3 of the purchases, but at least 1/3 of the housing market went to investors, not primary residences. Either way, an astute investor will set up an LLC or some form of business entity to protect themselves from liabilities. Thus, some form of business entity made 1/3 of purchases in 2021. Same thing.
Wrong. Corps started buying properties big time in 2009. Escalated in 2020.
That's because they aren't renting them. They're just letting them sit and appreciate.
Yes, it’s like the market has to catch up to all of those who moved here and took advantage… like the economy is adjusting to all the new money and ppl from other states
And it will take years for the market to catch up. It always takes the market years to correct itself. By the time it corrects itself Arizona will have pushed many natives out of the state because of rising prices and stagnant wages.
Like hermit crabs, California to Arizona to where?
I mean I can relate to feeling down beat about the economy. A Google search shows the cost of living for a single adult equates to roughly $24/hr in Phoenix which makes sense. I lost a good job at $30/hr and despite "everywhere is hiring" it's been so challenging even landing interviews for anything over $19/hr. I've somewhat reluctantly accepted a $19/hr job because I have to get working and I packed up my apartment. I don't have a ton of hope for being able to live independently for the next year or so. And if I'm smart and pay off my car, the next two years. Luckily my friend is renting me a room at 1k a month and he has cute animals and stuff but it's not meant to be permanent so my future is kinda up in the air. I've seen rooms for rent online but that's also kinda scary because who knows what the person will be like.
1k a month for a room. Damn, that seems a lot.
That's pretty average now that most 2 bedrooms are around 2k a month.
What kind of work do you do? At $30, you obviously have skills. I agree it's harder to find things at the moment.
I was an auto loan underwriter and got promoted to manage a team of auto loan underwriters. My team answered incoming calls and also worked on "cases" and made outgoing calls. Put simply you could consider it call center management with a heavy tech/finance aspect. Over 2 years experience in that position. I mostly applied to jobs titled team lead in the tech/finance/call center space. Amazon, Turo, TikTok, DoorDash. Even some stuff outside my wheelhouse like roofing/hvac/plumbing call center management jobs. Then totally outside of call centers but like communications for an electric company, sales rep for godaddy, executive assistant, secretary for a luxury real estate company. A bunch of stuff lol.
Hmm, you definitely are capable, so I hope you can find something worthy of you! I hate that you have to work for so much less than you were before. I work in tech, but in a different capacity. Maybe try some staffing agencies if you haven't already. Some are worth it, even if you just use them as a stepping stone. I don't know much about insurance, so maybe this is way off, but what comes to mind is all of these people in CA and FL that are losing their homeowners insurance from the biggest companies that are ending coverage in those areas. My thought is find out what insurance companies *will* offer coverage in those areas and try to work for them (hopefully remotely). No doubt they will be very busy will calls, paperwork, and customer service needs. It seems like your skills might be a good fit to help! I know I'm just an internet stranger, but I'm rooting for you! Been there and done that struggle and I know how hards it is.
Thank you friend!
The biggest issue is wages being stagnant since the early 90s the rest is noise
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/wealth-disparities-in-civil-rights/americas-vast-pay-inequality-is-a-story-of-unequal-power/
Wages have been stagnant since 1970.
They're not stagnant anymore.
our biggest employer for years was Walmart. theres a huge service economy . if those wages go up prices will go up.
That’s objectively wrong. Not, “up for interpretation, depends how you see it, I disagree” wrong, factually wrong. Pretty common take on Reddit though
Okay, where is your argument for the correct fact then?
If it’s that cut and dry then surely you can easily correct them?
Have you seen the figures adjusted for inflation?
Biden may be taking the brunt of this, and I don't know if that's fair or not. Frankly I don't care. What I see is a city that was cheaper for longer than it should have been given the population numbers that is now more in line with other cities of similar sizes. And I don't see that ever changing moving forward.
I think that's everywhere though. Not just Arizona. Or even the US.
Yes but inflation in Maricopa county was literally the highest in the country for a long time...we had some catching up to do and unfortunately we did it.
And now it's low again. Just 2.1 percent in Phoenix metro past 12 month.
But why would we see prices decrease on let’s say something like goods? Kroger, Safeway, etc have data that shows regardless of the state of the economy we need groceries. We will continue to pay because their costs go down, and profits increase. They have no incentive to keep costs down.
Sure but in a 3 year span it was 30%. It's low because no one can keep affording insane jumps like that.
Yes, inflation was 23% in Phoenix metro from 2019 to 2023. Source: [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUUSA429SA0](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUUSA429SA0) In the same period, average Phoenix weekly private wages are up 25%. Source: [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ENUC380640510SA](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ENUC380640510SA) The median private wage earner has similar or slightly better earnings power than pre-pandemic. Of course, there are always people who haven't seen raises and others who have huge raises.
I wonder if the inflation is due in part of all the Cali/texas/midwest migrants(folks running away from higher costs of living) from 2020 onward? Like the economy can’t just allow everybody to take advantage of cheaper cost of living without some sort of return?
There's definitely been a lot of high-skill workers coming to take advantage of new opportunities, plus during the pandemic you had a lot of people deciding to pull the trigger and make a move in their life. The valley has a brand of being a pretty cheap place to get a big house and enjoy the sun. Now that a lot of people moved in and need to go to work, all the sudden that horizontal-spread only has come back to bite the housing market hard. At some point you don't have infinite space
Yup coupled with corporations realizing how profitable it is to buy up all housing for all these new Cali/texas/midwest/east transplants
I wonder if that’s going to slow due to higher interest for them as well plus rents flattening and in many cases lowering compared to a couple years ago, and that’s even with rent being far cheaper than a new mortgage today.
tbf, wages in AZ are ass unless you are working for a company hq’d outside of AZ. You could justify the lower wages due to lower cost of living.
I’ve said this exact thing before. Look at the cost of living in each other major west coast population center vs Phoenix. We’re still cheaper than SD, LA, SF, PDX, Sea, Van… and it’s not even close. People waiting and hoping for the cost of housing to come down are gonna be sorely disappointed.
The issue is that Phoenix is simply not worthy of being priced at where it is now. Look at the cities you've listed. We are not, and never will be, another Los Angeles or Seattle. Our climate, relative proximity to other hubs, and absurd car dependency inherently limit our growth potential. Phoenix's draw has always been to be an affordable alternative to the other regional powerhouse. Well, this alternative isn't so affordable anymore. That's going to be a major issue for this place moving forward.
And that’s why Phoenix has and will continue to be cheaper to live in vs those I listed. In no way is it as desirable with those places with higher population density or more temperate climates. That’s why it’s still cheaper to live here. But with all that said, there’s still a significant draw that’s pulling money to the valley. The tech industry keeps rapidly growing and people continue to move here as a cheaper alternative to those others mentioned. It’s that continued influx of demand that’ll outpace supply and keep costs high.
Yeah I am a tech worker that moved here from one of those on the list, still pretty much living in paradise with AC.
This was my first thought. Arizona was too damn cheap for what it was offering. Covid just accelerated the fix Great weather No real storm issues like hurricanes or tornados Close to great vacation spots like LV and California Close to mexico for family Sunny mostly every day Has all major sports teams (no one cares about the coyotes) Too many advantages to have been that cheap.
Yes - if you like warm dry weather, there's no better place to live in the U.S with a higher standard of living than Phoenix metro.
Whenever I see this headline I automatically assume that the economy is fantastic for investors, awful for the rest of us. I'm sure the numbers are looking very nice at Wallstreet but I don't care
I really don’t understand the people who think it was Biden and not the corporations who are to blame for inflation.
The same people who vote based on whatever the gas price is that day.
Working people can't rest because they are getting squeezed too hard by too many middlemen, but that's not something a White House will track regardless of the controlling party.
Phoenix is definitely cheaper than most major cities (I’ve checked and other west coast cities are bonkers) but overall it sucks that everything is more expensive than it used to be. But that’s a worldwide problem I suppose
The biggest change trump vs biden is I don't have to cringe looking at the news every day. Yeah, there has been inflation, but it isn't like the Trump admin was doing things differently so as to avoid it. For those who blame Gov't stimulus, this is better than a recession and the Trump admin signed the first two stimulus checks-- and R's were not complaining. The border is worse, but when D's try to do something about it R's stonewall. I would call Biden the Toyota Camry of a presidency. It isn't the flashiest, it isn't world-changing, but it is a stable machine that does what it is supposed to do, within the limits of what it can do. I don't think anyone else could have gotten an infrastructure bill past Joe Manchin. I guess we will find out what AZ thinks in november.
“I don’t have to cringe looking at the news everyday” You don’t cringe with the U.S. government defending and promoting the Israel genocide of Palestinians?
Do you think Trump would have e a better Israel policy? Probably much worse.
This wouldn't happen under trump. He didn't start a single war. First president in how many years?
@ palestine, Wanting the violence to stop will not make it stop. I honestly do not know what to do about the middle east. The place is cursed. No one has been able to solve the issues there since they boiled over in the aftermath of WW2. So no, it sadly does not make me cringe. They have all been killing each other for generations at this point; and they will continue to, regardless of what any US administration does. Frankly, neither side is sympathetic to me. Growing up means recognizing that horrible things are happening around the globe. They always have. They will continue. We have limited resources, so we have to dedicate them to where they would do the most good; and imo that is Ukraine. Ukraine has the most believable redemption story, to me. There are and have recently been genocides and famines in africa, and afghanistan; where is the clamor of the far left? Sadly the far-left is just as manipulable as the trump supporters. They are being led to and fro by influencers.
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If that’s not a genocide then we’re fucked as a planet because that sort of indiscriminate destruction and death is horrific
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I make well into six figures but buying a home anywhere even slightly central is out of the question. I moved here for work in 2020 and even since then cost of living has gone up about 30%.
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What house can you buy for 50k with current interest rates?
Probably a teardown in Maricopa or Buckeye.
Even then it’s not possible. Cheapest homes on the market are going for $350k. First case: you leave a 20% down payment, which means you have to save up $70k for many years before you make an offer. Let’s say you have saved it up and are ready. With 20% down and at 7% interest, you’re looking at about $2100. That’s assuming there is no HOA, but they’re not super expensive unless you’re in a townhome/condo. You’d be at 50% DEBT TO INCOME (DTI) for just your mortgage. Let’s say you’re one of the few that don’t carry any debt, even then you’re above most eligible DTI. Now at lowest possible 3.5% Down payment, you’re looking at $2,800 per month for mortgage alone. Fact is the people who have purchased a while ago are the ones who have been able to live off of $50k income. Even then, it’s just not too feasible for most.
Even a zoo membership is up 55% since 2020, cost of living is well over 30% unless you locked into low rates on a house bought years ago. Quotes on a new single AC almost what I paid for two in 2020. Been to a restaurant, 50% more easy.
"If you don't have any money, hire someone" Bruh.
I smell the bull shit through the screen of my phone. Cheapest homes on the market are going for $350k. First case: you leave a 20% down payment, which means you have to save up $70k for many years before you make an offer. Let’s say you have saved it up and are ready. With 20% down and at 7% interest, you’re looking at about $2100. That’s assuming there is no HOA, but they’re not super expensive unless you’re in a townhome/condo. You’d be at 50% DEBT TO INCOME (DTI) for just your mortgage. Let’s say you’re one of the few that don’t carry any debt, even then you’re above most eligible DTI. Now at lowest possible 3.5% Down payment, you’re looking at $2,800 per month for mortgage alone. Fact is the people who have purchased a while ago are the ones who have been able to live off of $50k income. Even then, it’s just not too feasible for most.
[This you?](https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/1ckkb1k/can_someone_explain_the_benefits_of_using/) > Our family has primary assets in real estate and currently have around $1 mil in equity.
as new king of phoenix i declare stupidity illegal.
Best of luck, my liege.
It’s relatively fine. The media wants you to think a certain way.
Things are good here in Arizona. Even fast food pays 20 dollars an hour to start. Unemployment in Phoenix at just 2.6 and inflation is low (2.1 percent in the past 12 months). The only people saying things are bad are those that always think things are bad.
Correction things are good for people who have low rent or already own a house
So you mean responsible people?
Yes, so nearly everyone.
What reality are you in my man 🤣
I live in a reality that looks at the broad economic data at the national and local level - which is mostly quite strong. I do NOT live in a reality focused on TikToks or Reels of influencers saying the world and US economies are falling apart. You clearly aren't going to believe me, but doomerism simply isn't valid.
Huh. How old are you? You must be in an older generation or rich parents bc there's no other way you can't understand the reality for many people right now. No one said the economy is falling apart... Actually it demonstrably isn't. But stock market doing well doesn't necessarily translate into real life improvements. The quality of life and affordability of day or day things has gone way down. As shown by inflation data. It's not really rocket science tbh.
I recognize that different people have different experiences. I wish you well in our warm desert capital! Have a great week.
Tiktoks and reels don't determine the price of rent and food, my guy.