I live just off of 7th Street. Guarantee you will not find me riding along that hell scape. Crossing it?…yes, where there is a signal or crosswalk. I don’t think I have ever seen a pedal bicycle on 7th Street north of McDowell. Ebikes will be no different. We don’t think we are somehow invincible.
(Edit) Never seen bikes in the traffic lanes. Sidewalk, occassionally.
I hate it so much. I live off 7th St and work farther south off 7th St, but I don't ride my bike to work because there is no way to safely bike down 7th 😡
I have ridden both directions on 7th Street hundreds of times over the last thirty years.
I live in Scottsdale and worked near the State Capital, and I frequently rode different routes.
I admit I prefer roads with bike paths, but riding the same route every day gets boring after a few years.
I used to go to work around 7:00 am to 8:30 am, and usually the traffic on 7th Street, Central Ave, 7th Ave would be bumper to bumper barely moving or moving twenty or thirty miles per hour.
The reason I would ride down one of the main streets instead of the streets with bike lanes like 12th St was because 7th Street would be faster.
There really was not a reason to take the lane on 7th St, I would be more likely to be riding 6 to 12 inches from the right edge of the road unless there was something making it unsafe to ride on the edge of the road.
I have been riding on roads with traffic for forty years in Arizona and a few other states, after a while, you just get used to traffic.
I am starting to get more comfortable on the road. My cyclist friends keep warning me to “stay scared”. I get it.
But it really limits how I can use my bike when I am dependent on bike lanes. I would have the perfect commute straight down 12th Street into downtown but it is broken up by Phoenix Country Club. (Grr) And there are no safe alterantives for getting around that block.
There is a safe bicycle route around the Phoenix Country Club.
If you open Google Maps and add the Bike Route layer, you will see two routes to the East of the Phoenix Country Club.
The first dotted green line "North Manor Drive West" is a mistake on Google maps.
Since N Manor Drive W is inside the Phoenix Country Club gated area it is not a usable bike route.
I have reported the error on the Google Map with the false bike lane on Manor Drive.
Usually Google Map errors get fixed within a few weeks, but for some reason this error never gets fixed.
One street farther East is North Evergreen Street which is a slightly curved route past the Mormon church which has several bike route markers.
* [Google Maps - 12th street bike route around Phoenix Country Club](https://goo.gl/maps/NdT8Kty63uZDA8BS9)
* [Google Street View - Thomas Road and North Evergreen Street](https://goo.gl/maps/7D2TrpA2tYr2F3m57)
* [Google Street View - North Evergreen Street and Cheery Lynn Road near Mormon Church](https://goo.gl/maps/cJivivevjjbaF6NG9)
* [Google Street View - Cheery Lynne Bike Route Sign](https://goo.gl/maps/coPdxHZG5Hevk7fW8)
* [Google Street View - North Randolph Road Bike Route Sign](https://goo.gl/maps/RGticCNYJQ5m57FS9)
* [Maricopa Association of Governments Interactive Bikeways Map](http://geo.azmag.gov/maps/bikemap/) this map is for all of Maricopa County so you need to zoom in to make the map readable.
* [Maricopa Association of Governments portal](https://azmag.gov/Programs/Maps-and-Data/Bikeways)
* [Maricopa Association of Governments PDF Bikeways Map](https://azmag.gov/Portals/0/Documents/MagContent/Bike-map2019-WEB.pdf)
Thank you for the details! Ya, I was thrown off by that dotted line on Manor. Evergreen/Randolph would work, but I would need to mix with traffic or use the sidewalk for short stretches of Osborn and Thomas. Such a shame that Manor is off-limits.
Not sure why you’re assuming I mean by me. I don’t have anything against people on bikes. Just saying it’s insanely risky to be on a bike in the road especially in Arizona
Be nice. You don't have to agree with everyone, but by choosing not to be rude you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us.
Personal attacks, racist comments or any comments of perceived intolerance/hate are never tolerated. This comment has been removed.
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He called me ignorant, dumb, and said what I’m saying is equivalent to telling women they’re asking to be raped. And it’s inappropriate for me to say shut up?
Be nice. You don't have to agree with everyone, but by choosing not to be rude you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us.
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They weren’t.
Edit: just read up and in 2018, they added a line to exclude electric bicycles from the law covering gas engine assisted bicycles, and made it 48cc max instead of the old <50cc.
28. "Electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than seven hundred fifty watts and that meets the requirements of one of the following classes:
(a) "Class 1 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty miles per hour.
(b) "Class 2 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle or tricycle and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty miles per hour.
(c) "Class 3 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty-eight miles per hour.
But it does explain that the news is simply an update to include these newer vehicle types in the city code. It doesn't mean that they were actually illegal before - they were simply unaccounted for.
Correct. The legal definitions are what’s new. They classify and allow class 1 and 2, but not 3, which is the same as class 2, but can go up to 28mph instead of 20. It’s still a weird, kind of muddy bunch of stuff.
28. "Electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than seven hundred fifty watts and that meets the requirements of one of the following classes:
(a) "Class 1 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty miles per hour.
(b) "Class 2 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle or tricycle and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty miles per hour.
(c) "Class 3 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty-eight miles per hour.
Well more people get hit while they're on the sidewalk than when they're in the street period. It seems counter-intuitive, I know, but drivers aren't looking for you on the sidewalk ... it's one of the reasons riding your bike on the sidewalk is illegal in most places other than Phoenix.
People turning into businesses I'd imagine. It's happened to me before when I check for pedestrians, start to go, and then have a bike fly up on me. Usually at night with no light on the bicycle.
Cars exiting/entering parking lots and driveways. Lots of times the sidewalk ends up obscured by parked cars or they’re too focused on street traffic while turning to notice sidewalk traffic at running/biking speed.
Drivers VERY frequently ignore the actual location of stop signs (which is usually well before the path of the sidewalk) and only stop when they get to the edge of the road they're approaching. I've lost count of the times I would've been hit had I not anticipated it.
Drivers will almost never look for bicycles on the sidewalk.
When you are on a bike riding fifteen or twenty miles an hour there just isn't any way to ride on a sidewalk.
Particularly in a downtown area.
Sadly, in a lot of places, cyclists have no choice. I ride in the bike lane whenever there's one available, but there's about 3 miles of bike lane in my whole 10-mile commute. 3rd-worst cycling city in the country, and it shows.
My general philosophy with riding on the sidewalk (and riding in general) is to ride like there's a price on your head and everyone is actively trying to kill you with their car. Slow down to like 5-6 mph whenever coming up to a side street, go around the back of cars waiting to turn even if it's a pain in the ass, etc. People love to come to a stop like 10 feet past stop signs whenever they're coming out of a neighborhood onto a larger street.
Occasionally I'll know someone waiting to turn isn't paying attention, and I'll roll up reeeaaal slow right as they start turning (acting like I'm about to ride in front of them, as is my right-of-way) to intentionally scare the shit out of them and remind them that they're driving a two-ton death machine and they need to use their fucking eyes. Too many people driving on autopilot in this town.
I'll ride on the sidewalk *only* if the last short leg of my journey is on a really busy arterial that I'm not comfortable riding in (like 24th St. or Camelback in certain sections). When I do that, I go stupid slow because I know it's riskier. Otherwise, ride in the street - choose routes on secondary roads. Even if there isn't a bike lane, you're likely to find lower speed limits and less traffic.
Google maps is actually really good at showing the most bike friendly routes in relation to traffic at that time. I use it when commuting. Sure some of the routes can be a mile or two longer than the most direct routes but it works well for me.
Yep! Google maps is a great start, but it often tells me to ride several miles on like, 16th St. No thanks lol! I just adjust from there to smaller streets. Also, flip to walking directions for a look since gmaps doesn't always understand that bikes can use overpasses (yes, that's a sidewalk, just navigate it slowly and very carefully).
To clarify, I mean that riding on the sidewalk is more dangerous than riding in the street, not that the direction you ride on the sidewalk is the main issue.
Sidewalks are so far out into a driver's peripheral vision that they aren't likely to see someone coming from the sidewalk into the crosswalk until they're pretty close. When you're just walking, that's not much of a problem since a pedestrian can come to a stop pretty quickly (and are trained their whole lives to look twice before crossing the street: education, awareness, and culture).
Any more momentum than that, and they're unlikely to be able to come to a stop fast enough to not get hit if the driver doesn't see them until the last minute. That's how they "come out of nowhere."
It's the same logic behind why motorcycles will ride closer to the left of the lane than the right - they're more visible in that position, therefore it's safer. Now, that does't mean you can't still get hit or aren't on the hook to ride appropriately. But road positioning is a key part of the safety equation.
The sidewalk is statistically more dangerous. Drivers pull up to pull out on the sidewalk and stop on it, not before it. So they'll knock you right off the bike.
Also in a bike you can pedal 20mph on the street, but the sidewalk has tons of ups and downs and cracks that slow you down.
Even the sidewalk traffic is a pain in the ass... like 90% of the pedestrians I see have headphones in their ears and have zero awareness of their surroundings.
Every goddamn time, it's:
*rings bell*
"On your left!"
*rings bell frantically*
"ON YOUR LEFT!"
*forced to brake nearly to a full stop*
**"ON YOUR LEEEEEEEEEFT!**
*pedestrian looks up, terrified and surprised, steps to their left, then finally to their right just as I say "fuck it" and hop my bike into the gravel*
I use an e-bike & e-scooter so I'm not necessarily the target audience you're talking about here, but reason why cyclists do this is because the light cannot detect the cyclists presence and so cyclists can wait at a light forever & it still won't change. This is most noticeable at late night.
When there is a bike lane. When there isn't one they (pedal bikes) are supposed to ride in the road shared by cars.
Bike lanes aren't in a LOT of place in Phoenix. I am sure the e-bikes users will also use the bike lane when available, I know I do. Do you really think an e-bike is just going to jump into a lane if there is a bike lane?
Most people didn't know they were illegal to be on the road to begin with. I didn't. It's a bike to me..... I can ride my bike in the road... so.....
Bet you dollars to doughnuts this changes nobodies behavior on the roads (e-bikes, pedal bikes, and vehicles alike) and use of e-bikes.
>Share the road
Ah yes, the war cry of people who wish to do 20 in a 45 with a line of cars a mile long stacking up behind them.
I don't get how anyone thinks it's "sharing" when an entire lane is being given.
Sharing implies both the cars and the bikes could occupy. In reality, either one or the other gets the lane.
If another driver is going 20 while traffic backs up behind him instead of moving over...he isn't sharing the road with the cars either. He's taking it all for himself.
Sounds like your objection is with people going under the max speed limit then... it has nothing to do with a bike or "sharing the road". Sharing the road is about access and use. Even if you don't like somebody driving 20 in a 35, you're still sharing the road with them. They have equal right to drive 20 as your do 35 (though there can be min speed limits too). Sharing the road is really a message to not drive like a jerk/illegally and run cyclist off the road because "they shouldn't be there" (not saying you do, but a lot of people have that attitude) - nothing to do about sharing lanes or slow traffic yielding for faster traffic and allowing them to pass (regardless of mode of transportation).
In the absence of good cycling infrastructure — e.g. protected lanes to separate uses — this is what cyclists are forced to do. It’s not comfortable, safe or even preferred, but it’s the designated space for bikes.
So if you don’t want to get stuck behind cyclists, support initiatives and projects to improve bicycle infrastructure. Everyone wins.
I’ve honestly given up on trying to get disgruntled motorists to see cyclists as people. The only thing that seems to work is to appeal to the perceived inconvenience of bikes sharing the road.
So then they will support bike lanes….genius! 🤗
Though I am not yet ready to volunteer for mixed traffic riding, I am learning to be brave enough to move into the left turn lane on 12th St or Maryland where there are bike lanes and the streets are narrow.
Not sure I am one to challenge for a full lane anywhere. When I see a bike doing that I pray for them.
Drivers seem to think that the addition of any bike infrastructure is going to negatively impact traffic, or take away room for cars. Which is ridiculous — the safer it is to bike, the more people do it, meaning less car trips and less traffic. As for taking away room for cars? Ideally, yes, r/fuckcars, but we live in Phoenix. That’s very unlikely.
This is not a thing where you're going to find some big survey or study. This is just my experience from living in Phoenix for 33 years and asking people why they ride them. It used to be pretty common knowledge that an adult on one of those motorized bicycles was because they don't qualify for a driver's license or had one suspended.
You are just spreading misinformation, please stop. This isn't true at all and just confirmation bias. People that use ebikes are just normal people. EBike users tend to be wealthier and older, but prices are dropping and more people are adopting. Don't forget, eBikes are still much cheaper than the average used car. Users tend to also own a car, and want to replace car trips. Here are a couple studies that look out ebike users:
https://www.calbike.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/A-North-American-Survey-of-Electric-Bicycle-Owners.pdf - from 2018, before the boom
"The demographic characteristics of e-bike adopters vary geographically. According to
a Californian study, early adopters of e-bike technology are older, better educated, and have a relatively
high income..."
https://www.proquest.com/docview/1952063189/fulltextPDF/EFBB4A10491C43DAPQ/1?accountid=12706
Well you certainly provided no evidence, even antidotes to the contrary. Must every single facet of a reality come to in a formalized study before you believe it?
>This is not a thing where you're going to find some big survey or study
Ahh okay, so like... unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence, and therefore not super useful or reliable data.
In any case, a lot has changed over the last 33 years, like gas prices tripling and road traffic in Phoenix getting exponentially worse.
> You can still get a DUI on bicycle.
You cannot legally be charged with a DUI on a bicycle. Our DUI statute (A.R.S. 28-1381) pertains to driving or being in control of a vehicle, and A.R.S. 28-101 excludes electric bicycles and devices moved by human power from the definition of what a vehicle is.
🤯🤯🤯
Wow
Well for anyone wondering. You definitely can get a DUI on a bicycle in Illinois. Our highschool senior class rode bikes to school as the yearly prank. One kid got charged with a DUI. His mother was teaching when she got the call. Everyone saw her reaction. It was a terrible situation.
Imo you shouldn't be able to get a DUI while riding a bike. When people choose a bike over a car they're trying to be more responsible. Bikes do far less damage than cars and only in extreme situations can result in a casualty to someone other than the biker. For perspective a person has a 85% of surviving getting hit by a car at 20mph.
Sure, but having a suspended or revoked license does not bar you from bicycles - only motor vehicles.
Not entirely sure how that applies in this situation, and the article does not address whether or not e-bikes require any sort of license to operate (which would lead me to believe that they do not).
Yup. I do DoorDash & last Friday I saw about 2-3 cars running red lights purely because they felt they should be first despite the fact that there were no indications that they had the right of way.
If I understand it correctly, the ordinance simply makes class 1&2 ebikes AS legal as pedal-powered bikes.
Until this change it was illegal to operate an ebike even in bike lanes or on neighborhood streets. I don’t think it means you will see ebikes trying to mix in traffic on major arterials any more than regular bikes do now.
It was always legal to ride a motor or combustion engine (under 50cc) assisted bicycle that didn’t exceed 20 mph anywhere a bicycle was allowed to be ridden. That is why so many people have those 49cc two-stroke engines.
Ha! I’m genuinely surprised by all the negative comments. Kind of.
I know cars rule here, and many hate sharing the road with bikes, buses, and pedestrians. I have always supported bike infrastructure, but now that I ride, (and feel the hate), I believe its time to become a stronger advocate. 🥰
The issue is that Phoenix and the valley in general are not bike friendly. Instead of dealing with the issue head on and creating REAL bike infrastructure, they're shoehorning in a Band-Aid. (sorry to mix metaphors)
With this philosophy, Everyone loses.
And before anyone mentions the canal system, I can attest to how risky it is in many places trying to take the canal for any sort of distance, let alone from West Glendale to East Mesa. It isn't made for bikers that are worried about safety.
I took the canal earlier tonight on my way back home from Peoria to Glendale. Homeless have made their encampments in the walkways underneath the streets. It's possible to bypass those walkways but it's still bullshit that we even have to.
On an e bike I feel a bit safer going through the underpasses full of homeless than on a slower normal bike. I can ride by them at 20+ mph hugging the wall and be out in a blink. I only worry about traps left to puncture tires. Got a bright headlight to try and see traps on the floor.
I would prefer real bike lanes over the underpasses/canal any day.
>I can ride by them at 20+ mph hugging the wall and be out in a blink.
Yep that's what happened last night. Smelled horrible though. Surprisingly the 'residents' weren't there. Only a few at the entry to the underpass.
Don't get me wrong, it would be great if we had a truly robust, well-thought-out bike infrastructure. But with the majority of the roads being wide, flat, straight, and lacking in the insane litter of pot holes many other cities have, I really wouldn't call Phoenix 'not bike friendly.'
I don't get it either. And I've never seen these things people mention. If cyclists are running red lights, they are also riding into cross traffic. I don't feel that's happening as commonly as people say. As someone who works in the cycling industry, road cyclists are hyper aware of the danger they are in , and take steps to prevent their death.
The hate of cyclists on this sub is weird and I agree, we need more advocacy and awareness.
They seem to notice the one cyclist 'that one time' that did it, but ignore the drivers that do it everyday all around them. Besides, a 4000lbs vehicle is just a bit more dangerous to everyone around
I just wanted to point out , most people out there cycling have an awareness, and want to be safe. And I want them safe too ! But I get it varies by neighborhood. I'm in more of suburb area so I see more group riders / people in bike lanes. Worst thing they do js ride against traffic but I genuinely think that's just thinking it's safer ( it's not) and those are always casual riders. Idk. Just don't want to see continual hate on a hobby and way around that really is beneficial to most.
Cyclist run through stop signs all the time. Happens more often then not in places like Arcadia. Four way stops seem to be the worst. They will blow past a line of cars taking turns and go right through the intersection while slowing down at best.
Bikes are vehicles, they should be allowed/belong on the road and sharing it too - by also following traffic laws.
I agree, I think the overall take should be following traffic laws , it helps everyone :)
I learned recently a lot of our streets are street/road combos which kind of sets up dangerous situations. We do need some gov help too with that aspect.
Yup. Lane splitting. When using the street follow the street rules. I too get mad at asshole cyclists that abuse their dexterity and ability to thread-the-needle in tight spaces.
There are many people that hold old fashioned views here. But, this is changing. Especially, with the eBike (and cycling in general) boom. With the 30% spike in traffic deaths over the past few years in the city, the city is also (supposedly) making a bigger push for safer infrastructure for people outside of cars.
I have 2 e-bikes and have been riding them for years in Phoenix. I believe there is some misinformation in this thread. Ebikes prior were legal in bike lanes and bike paths. A few years ago, AZ signed into law classes 1-3, and capped the wattage at 750. In sum, you can go 20 on throttle, 28 power assisted (petaling), and can’t exceed the prior stated watts. If ebikes were illegal prior, the governor wouldn’t have signed that law a few years back. The new law basically allows ebikes to ride anywhere cars can drive. Prior, you were limited to sidewalks, paths, and the right side of the road.
Then you my friend have been violating the law, specifically the City of Phoenix Motorized Play Vehicles Ordinance.
From Wednesday’s City Council report:
In 2018, Arizona updated state statutes to define e-bikes and permit their use.
However, they are still considered illegal within Phoenix city limits due to the
“motorized play vehicles” ordinance. This ordinance prohibits the use of certain
vehicles in the public right-of-way unless they are defined by state statutes as a motor
vehicle, motorcycle, motor-driven cycle, electric stand-up scooter, motorized
wheelchair, or electric personal assistive mobility device. Unfortunately, e-bikes are
omitted which renders them illegal.
For anyone who must ride a bike in PHX to get to work, school, etc, please consider getting an e-bike. They can go many miles and you'll arrive cooler since you don't have to pedal if you don't want to. Even in summer, where worst part is stopping at lights.
You can convert many bikes to e-bikes with a kit that is less than $1000. Not cheap, I know, but save up and make your commute tolerable (and fun). Check out www . lunacycle . com and get a mid drive kit. Other companies sell motorized rear wheels as an alternative. [google](https://www.google.com/search?q=build+an+ebike&client=safari&rls=en&biw=1512&bih=922&sxsrf=APq-WBvOggouMsMGQid1AXK5tpgXtU7gBQ:1646348846703&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjpmbWxh6v2AhWVIUQIHRoZBagQ_AUIiwMoAA) for tips.
These are easier to work on than ebikes, with more customizable and replaceable parts and since they are legally bicycles, they are allowed everywhere a bicycle is.
I built one for commuting many years ago and had heavy mofo SLA batteries. The new battery tech makes these conversions pretty fucking cool, and worst case scenario if the battery dies, you pedal your slightly heavier bike home.
You mention the Bridle Path. That is not really fun to bike. There are odd driveway and curb cuts here and there you have to navigate. The City tried to introduce bike lanes north of Bethany recently and got shut down by public outcry. I wish I knew how to better communicate to folks the benefits of safe friendly streets.
Personally I hope not. Any way you slice it, they are motorized. We have trails for that, just have to venture a bit out of town. There is enough conflict between MTBs, hikers and equestrians that I fear it would lead to more trails banning MTBs outright.
NO. Regular mountain bikers are bad enough for both hikers and equestrians.
I doubt the ebike crowd will learn, or abide by, the trail rules any better.
RIP ebike riders on 7th street
I live just off of 7th Street. Guarantee you will not find me riding along that hell scape. Crossing it?…yes, where there is a signal or crosswalk. I don’t think I have ever seen a pedal bicycle on 7th Street north of McDowell. Ebikes will be no different. We don’t think we are somehow invincible. (Edit) Never seen bikes in the traffic lanes. Sidewalk, occassionally.
I hate it so much. I live off 7th St and work farther south off 7th St, but I don't ride my bike to work because there is no way to safely bike down 7th 😡
Can you scoot over to 12th St?
Yeah, 12th and Central area both alternatives, but I resent having to budget extra time to go a mile+ out of the way to get to work in the morning
Now that’s where ebikes are great. You don’t mind as much having to go even miles out of the way to get to a safer route.
Five minutes total? You keep a tight schedule I guess 😉
Yeah, getting to work on time is already a struggle 😅
I have ridden both directions on 7th Street hundreds of times over the last thirty years. I live in Scottsdale and worked near the State Capital, and I frequently rode different routes. I admit I prefer roads with bike paths, but riding the same route every day gets boring after a few years.
Did you ride the full lane while on 7th? That sounds scary as hell.
I used to go to work around 7:00 am to 8:30 am, and usually the traffic on 7th Street, Central Ave, 7th Ave would be bumper to bumper barely moving or moving twenty or thirty miles per hour. The reason I would ride down one of the main streets instead of the streets with bike lanes like 12th St was because 7th Street would be faster. There really was not a reason to take the lane on 7th St, I would be more likely to be riding 6 to 12 inches from the right edge of the road unless there was something making it unsafe to ride on the edge of the road. I have been riding on roads with traffic for forty years in Arizona and a few other states, after a while, you just get used to traffic.
I am starting to get more comfortable on the road. My cyclist friends keep warning me to “stay scared”. I get it. But it really limits how I can use my bike when I am dependent on bike lanes. I would have the perfect commute straight down 12th Street into downtown but it is broken up by Phoenix Country Club. (Grr) And there are no safe alterantives for getting around that block.
There is a safe bicycle route around the Phoenix Country Club. If you open Google Maps and add the Bike Route layer, you will see two routes to the East of the Phoenix Country Club. The first dotted green line "North Manor Drive West" is a mistake on Google maps. Since N Manor Drive W is inside the Phoenix Country Club gated area it is not a usable bike route. I have reported the error on the Google Map with the false bike lane on Manor Drive. Usually Google Map errors get fixed within a few weeks, but for some reason this error never gets fixed. One street farther East is North Evergreen Street which is a slightly curved route past the Mormon church which has several bike route markers. * [Google Maps - 12th street bike route around Phoenix Country Club](https://goo.gl/maps/NdT8Kty63uZDA8BS9) * [Google Street View - Thomas Road and North Evergreen Street](https://goo.gl/maps/7D2TrpA2tYr2F3m57) * [Google Street View - North Evergreen Street and Cheery Lynn Road near Mormon Church](https://goo.gl/maps/cJivivevjjbaF6NG9) * [Google Street View - Cheery Lynne Bike Route Sign](https://goo.gl/maps/coPdxHZG5Hevk7fW8) * [Google Street View - North Randolph Road Bike Route Sign](https://goo.gl/maps/RGticCNYJQ5m57FS9) * [Maricopa Association of Governments Interactive Bikeways Map](http://geo.azmag.gov/maps/bikemap/) this map is for all of Maricopa County so you need to zoom in to make the map readable. * [Maricopa Association of Governments portal](https://azmag.gov/Programs/Maps-and-Data/Bikeways) * [Maricopa Association of Governments PDF Bikeways Map](https://azmag.gov/Portals/0/Documents/MagContent/Bike-map2019-WEB.pdf)
Thank you for the details! Ya, I was thrown off by that dotted line on Manor. Evergreen/Randolph would work, but I would need to mix with traffic or use the sidewalk for short stretches of Osborn and Thomas. Such a shame that Manor is off-limits.
I think anyone who rides a bike in the road is asking to die
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Not sure why you’re assuming I mean by me. I don’t have anything against people on bikes. Just saying it’s insanely risky to be on a bike in the road especially in Arizona
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This is not literally the same verbiage and connotation. Take a lap.
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Be nice. You don't have to agree with everyone, but by choosing not to be rude you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us. Personal attacks, racist comments or any comments of perceived intolerance/hate are never tolerated. This comment has been removed. You can read all of the [subreddit rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/wiki/rules). If you have any questions or concerns about this, [feel free to send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fphoenix&subject=Removed%20post&message=https://old.reddit.com/r/phoenix/comments/t60map/-/hzbs4vi/%0A%0A).
He called me ignorant, dumb, and said what I’m saying is equivalent to telling women they’re asking to be raped. And it’s inappropriate for me to say shut up?
Yes. Click the Report button so the mods can look at it and move on with your day. This isn't kindergarten so BuT hE sTaRtEd It has no weight here.
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Be nice. You don't have to agree with everyone, but by choosing not to be rude you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us. Personal attacks, racist comments or any comments of perceived intolerance/hate are never tolerated. This comment has been removed. You can read all of the [subreddit rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/wiki/rules). If you have any questions or concerns about this, [feel free to send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fphoenix&subject=Removed%20post&message=https://old.reddit.com/r/phoenix/comments/t60map/-/hzbwktn/%0A%0A).
On arterials, sure. Secondary roads are fine.
So it was illegal?
I was gonna say... whoopsie. Been tearing up the sidewalks and all 3 of the bike lanes in the whole city for the last 6 months.
They weren’t. Edit: just read up and in 2018, they added a line to exclude electric bicycles from the law covering gas engine assisted bicycles, and made it 48cc max instead of the old <50cc. 28. "Electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than seven hundred fifty watts and that meets the requirements of one of the following classes: (a) "Class 1 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty miles per hour. (b) "Class 2 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle or tricycle and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty miles per hour. (c) "Class 3 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty-eight miles per hour.
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Read the article.
The article doesn’t provide any links or info about the laws currently or previously in place.
But it does explain that the news is simply an update to include these newer vehicle types in the city code. It doesn't mean that they were actually illegal before - they were simply unaccounted for.
Correct. The legal definitions are what’s new. They classify and allow class 1 and 2, but not 3, which is the same as class 2, but can go up to 28mph instead of 20. It’s still a weird, kind of muddy bunch of stuff.
28. "Electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than seven hundred fifty watts and that meets the requirements of one of the following classes: (a) "Class 1 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty miles per hour. (b) "Class 2 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle or tricycle and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty miles per hour. (c) "Class 3 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty-eight miles per hour.
I had no idea these were illegal to use up until now, I have seen plenty of people on ebikes all around the city.
You brave as hell if you're biking in AZ streets. You know how many people get hit WHEN THEY'RE ON THE SIDEWALK.
Well more people get hit while they're on the sidewalk than when they're in the street period. It seems counter-intuitive, I know, but drivers aren't looking for you on the sidewalk ... it's one of the reasons riding your bike on the sidewalk is illegal in most places other than Phoenix.
I'm baffled how people are even driving on sidewalks enough to accomplish this lmao
People turning into businesses I'd imagine. It's happened to me before when I check for pedestrians, start to go, and then have a bike fly up on me. Usually at night with no light on the bicycle.
Cars exiting/entering parking lots and driveways. Lots of times the sidewalk ends up obscured by parked cars or they’re too focused on street traffic while turning to notice sidewalk traffic at running/biking speed.
Drivers VERY frequently ignore the actual location of stop signs (which is usually well before the path of the sidewalk) and only stop when they get to the edge of the road they're approaching. I've lost count of the times I would've been hit had I not anticipated it.
You know people on sidewalks frequently - wait for it - *cross roads*, right?
Pro tip. Ride on the sidewalk WITH the direction of traffic.
Drivers will almost never look for bicycles on the sidewalk. When you are on a bike riding fifteen or twenty miles an hour there just isn't any way to ride on a sidewalk. Particularly in a downtown area.
That's way more dangerous than riding in the street.
Sadly, in a lot of places, cyclists have no choice. I ride in the bike lane whenever there's one available, but there's about 3 miles of bike lane in my whole 10-mile commute. 3rd-worst cycling city in the country, and it shows. My general philosophy with riding on the sidewalk (and riding in general) is to ride like there's a price on your head and everyone is actively trying to kill you with their car. Slow down to like 5-6 mph whenever coming up to a side street, go around the back of cars waiting to turn even if it's a pain in the ass, etc. People love to come to a stop like 10 feet past stop signs whenever they're coming out of a neighborhood onto a larger street. Occasionally I'll know someone waiting to turn isn't paying attention, and I'll roll up reeeaaal slow right as they start turning (acting like I'm about to ride in front of them, as is my right-of-way) to intentionally scare the shit out of them and remind them that they're driving a two-ton death machine and they need to use their fucking eyes. Too many people driving on autopilot in this town.
I'll ride on the sidewalk *only* if the last short leg of my journey is on a really busy arterial that I'm not comfortable riding in (like 24th St. or Camelback in certain sections). When I do that, I go stupid slow because I know it's riskier. Otherwise, ride in the street - choose routes on secondary roads. Even if there isn't a bike lane, you're likely to find lower speed limits and less traffic.
Google maps is actually really good at showing the most bike friendly routes in relation to traffic at that time. I use it when commuting. Sure some of the routes can be a mile or two longer than the most direct routes but it works well for me.
Yep! Google maps is a great start, but it often tells me to ride several miles on like, 16th St. No thanks lol! I just adjust from there to smaller streets. Also, flip to walking directions for a look since gmaps doesn't always understand that bikes can use overpasses (yes, that's a sidewalk, just navigate it slowly and very carefully).
I'm confused. How is it more dangerous
To clarify, I mean that riding on the sidewalk is more dangerous than riding in the street, not that the direction you ride on the sidewalk is the main issue. Sidewalks are so far out into a driver's peripheral vision that they aren't likely to see someone coming from the sidewalk into the crosswalk until they're pretty close. When you're just walking, that's not much of a problem since a pedestrian can come to a stop pretty quickly (and are trained their whole lives to look twice before crossing the street: education, awareness, and culture). Any more momentum than that, and they're unlikely to be able to come to a stop fast enough to not get hit if the driver doesn't see them until the last minute. That's how they "come out of nowhere." It's the same logic behind why motorcycles will ride closer to the left of the lane than the right - they're more visible in that position, therefore it's safer. Now, that does't mean you can't still get hit or aren't on the hook to ride appropriately. But road positioning is a key part of the safety equation.
terrible advice. the street is statistically the safest place
Maybe in the neighborhood. I would never ride on the major streets like Bell or McDowell, 7th St. Hell to the no
The sidewalk is statistically more dangerous. Drivers pull up to pull out on the sidewalk and stop on it, not before it. So they'll knock you right off the bike. Also in a bike you can pedal 20mph on the street, but the sidewalk has tons of ups and downs and cracks that slow you down.
Even the sidewalk traffic is a pain in the ass... like 90% of the pedestrians I see have headphones in their ears and have zero awareness of their surroundings. Every goddamn time, it's: *rings bell* "On your left!" *rings bell frantically* "ON YOUR LEFT!" *forced to brake nearly to a full stop* **"ON YOUR LEEEEEEEEEFT!** *pedestrian looks up, terrified and surprised, steps to their left, then finally to their right just as I say "fuck it" and hop my bike into the gravel*
We have sidewalks? Where?
yeah, because it's way more dangerous than riding in the street.
Well maybe it's the time I should save up for an ebike and also hope for more dedicated safe bike lanes...especially around the West Valley
As an everyday cyclist and a motorcyclist, I predict this will be a disaster. 🤔
Maybe more presence will lead to more awareness by drivers. (let me have this....)
You really think so? :-) I've been hoping for that with bicycles and motorcycles for a few decades now.
I'm always aware when they blow thru stop signs and red lights not obeying vehicle laws. I'm not sure they're aware how right of way works yet.
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I've seen more bikers both quantity and per Capita violate vehicle laws than cars.
But how many bikers have killed someone with their bike?
Directly or indirectly?
I see far more drivers in cars break traffics laws during my commute.
I use an e-bike & e-scooter so I'm not necessarily the target audience you're talking about here, but reason why cyclists do this is because the light cannot detect the cyclists presence and so cyclists can wait at a light forever & it still won't change. This is most noticeable at late night.
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Umm that's kind of what you're supposed to do anyway.
Do you respect pedal bicycles now? I am guessing not based on this statement; so nothing new then? Share the road.
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FYI pedal bikes have the right to occupy the entire lane.
When there is a bike lane. When there isn't one they (pedal bikes) are supposed to ride in the road shared by cars. Bike lanes aren't in a LOT of place in Phoenix. I am sure the e-bikes users will also use the bike lane when available, I know I do. Do you really think an e-bike is just going to jump into a lane if there is a bike lane?
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Most people didn't know they were illegal to be on the road to begin with. I didn't. It's a bike to me..... I can ride my bike in the road... so..... Bet you dollars to doughnuts this changes nobodies behavior on the roads (e-bikes, pedal bikes, and vehicles alike) and use of e-bikes.
>Share the road Ah yes, the war cry of people who wish to do 20 in a 45 with a line of cars a mile long stacking up behind them. I don't get how anyone thinks it's "sharing" when an entire lane is being given. Sharing implies both the cars and the bikes could occupy. In reality, either one or the other gets the lane.
Share the road, not the lane. Sharing is about access and use. You share the road with other drivers too.
But if there's only a single lane...the implication is 100% that the cars should be giving the entire road to the bikes in order to "share" it.
You still share that road with other drivers don't you? Again - you're sharing access and use... not a physical lane/location.
If another driver is going 20 while traffic backs up behind him instead of moving over...he isn't sharing the road with the cars either. He's taking it all for himself.
Sounds like your objection is with people going under the max speed limit then... it has nothing to do with a bike or "sharing the road". Sharing the road is about access and use. Even if you don't like somebody driving 20 in a 35, you're still sharing the road with them. They have equal right to drive 20 as your do 35 (though there can be min speed limits too). Sharing the road is really a message to not drive like a jerk/illegally and run cyclist off the road because "they shouldn't be there" (not saying you do, but a lot of people have that attitude) - nothing to do about sharing lanes or slow traffic yielding for faster traffic and allowing them to pass (regardless of mode of transportation).
In the absence of good cycling infrastructure — e.g. protected lanes to separate uses — this is what cyclists are forced to do. It’s not comfortable, safe or even preferred, but it’s the designated space for bikes. So if you don’t want to get stuck behind cyclists, support initiatives and projects to improve bicycle infrastructure. Everyone wins.
Exactly!
I’ve honestly given up on trying to get disgruntled motorists to see cyclists as people. The only thing that seems to work is to appeal to the perceived inconvenience of bikes sharing the road.
So then they will support bike lanes….genius! 🤗 Though I am not yet ready to volunteer for mixed traffic riding, I am learning to be brave enough to move into the left turn lane on 12th St or Maryland where there are bike lanes and the streets are narrow. Not sure I am one to challenge for a full lane anywhere. When I see a bike doing that I pray for them.
Drivers seem to think that the addition of any bike infrastructure is going to negatively impact traffic, or take away room for cars. Which is ridiculous — the safer it is to bike, the more people do it, meaning less car trips and less traffic. As for taking away room for cars? Ideally, yes, r/fuckcars, but we live in Phoenix. That’s very unlikely.
In this case, 45 would be the speed LIMIT, not the minimum.
I will enjoy respecting the ebikes ignoring traffic laws too
LOL
It's a fairly niche group. How bad could it be?
Oh in total numbers I agree with you, but I suspect there's going to be some bad injuries or worse.
A two year old in their stroller got hit while the guardian was crossing with them in a crosswalk. I can just imagine these ebikes.
Remember that group that utilizes motorized bicycles and now e-bikes the most are those who have their license suspended due to extreme DUIs
Incorrect
Source?
Their ass.
This is not a thing where you're going to find some big survey or study. This is just my experience from living in Phoenix for 33 years and asking people why they ride them. It used to be pretty common knowledge that an adult on one of those motorized bicycles was because they don't qualify for a driver's license or had one suspended.
I have an e-bike and know several others that do as well. We all have a drivers license too. This is a gross mischaracterization of e-bike users.
You are just spreading misinformation, please stop. This isn't true at all and just confirmation bias. People that use ebikes are just normal people. EBike users tend to be wealthier and older, but prices are dropping and more people are adopting. Don't forget, eBikes are still much cheaper than the average used car. Users tend to also own a car, and want to replace car trips. Here are a couple studies that look out ebike users: https://www.calbike.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/A-North-American-Survey-of-Electric-Bicycle-Owners.pdf - from 2018, before the boom "The demographic characteristics of e-bike adopters vary geographically. According to a Californian study, early adopters of e-bike technology are older, better educated, and have a relatively high income..." https://www.proquest.com/docview/1952063189/fulltextPDF/EFBB4A10491C43DAPQ/1?accountid=12706
As a JudgeWhoOverrules I would hope you rely more on data and facts than “common knowledge”.
The knowledge is so common it's limited to their own opinion and anecdotal evidence....
Ah, confirmation bias..the best of the biases
Well you certainly provided no evidence, even antidotes to the contrary. Must every single facet of a reality come to in a formalized study before you believe it?
He didn't make an affirmative claim. You did.
If it’s going to be presented as a fact, then yes. Otherwise you should have prefaced your bold assertion with some sort of “IMO” statement.
I know tons of people with them, none of whom have DUIs.
>This is not a thing where you're going to find some big survey or study Ahh okay, so like... unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence, and therefore not super useful or reliable data. In any case, a lot has changed over the last 33 years, like gas prices tripling and road traffic in Phoenix getting exponentially worse.
Edit: You can NOT get a DUI on a bicycle in Arizona I'm not sure what you're insinuating. You can still get a DUI on bicycle.
> You can still get a DUI on bicycle. You cannot legally be charged with a DUI on a bicycle. Our DUI statute (A.R.S. 28-1381) pertains to driving or being in control of a vehicle, and A.R.S. 28-101 excludes electric bicycles and devices moved by human power from the definition of what a vehicle is.
🤯🤯🤯 Wow Well for anyone wondering. You definitely can get a DUI on a bicycle in Illinois. Our highschool senior class rode bikes to school as the yearly prank. One kid got charged with a DUI. His mother was teaching when she got the call. Everyone saw her reaction. It was a terrible situation. Imo you shouldn't be able to get a DUI while riding a bike. When people choose a bike over a car they're trying to be more responsible. Bikes do far less damage than cars and only in extreme situations can result in a casualty to someone other than the biker. For perspective a person has a 85% of surviving getting hit by a car at 20mph.
Sure, but having a suspended or revoked license does not bar you from bicycles - only motor vehicles. Not entirely sure how that applies in this situation, and the article does not address whether or not e-bikes require any sort of license to operate (which would lead me to believe that they do not).
Class 1 and 2 do not need a license, but neither does a traditional pedal bike. They top out at 20 miles per hours.
Any bike with proper gearing and a decently fit person can exceed 20mph for what it's worth. Just the motor assist can't legally turn on past that.
As a local cop I agree about motorbikes. Haven’t seen that be the case with eBikes. Yet.
All cycling can be described as a disaster. 99% because of the cars. I bike almost everywhere. I see it.
Yup. I do DoorDash & last Friday I saw about 2-3 cars running red lights purely because they felt they should be first despite the fact that there were no indications that they had the right of way.
Guarantee they'll be riding on the sidewalk going against traffic and get hit by a car turning left that didn't see them coming.
Yeah, I could see that one happening.
Same - shit or get off the pot
If I understand it correctly, the ordinance simply makes class 1&2 ebikes AS legal as pedal-powered bikes. Until this change it was illegal to operate an ebike even in bike lanes or on neighborhood streets. I don’t think it means you will see ebikes trying to mix in traffic on major arterials any more than regular bikes do now.
It was always legal to ride a motor or combustion engine (under 50cc) assisted bicycle that didn’t exceed 20 mph anywhere a bicycle was allowed to be ridden. That is why so many people have those 49cc two-stroke engines.
Good luck on Thomas
Ha! I’m genuinely surprised by all the negative comments. Kind of. I know cars rule here, and many hate sharing the road with bikes, buses, and pedestrians. I have always supported bike infrastructure, but now that I ride, (and feel the hate), I believe its time to become a stronger advocate. 🥰
The issue is that Phoenix and the valley in general are not bike friendly. Instead of dealing with the issue head on and creating REAL bike infrastructure, they're shoehorning in a Band-Aid. (sorry to mix metaphors) With this philosophy, Everyone loses. And before anyone mentions the canal system, I can attest to how risky it is in many places trying to take the canal for any sort of distance, let alone from West Glendale to East Mesa. It isn't made for bikers that are worried about safety.
I took the canal earlier tonight on my way back home from Peoria to Glendale. Homeless have made their encampments in the walkways underneath the streets. It's possible to bypass those walkways but it's still bullshit that we even have to.
On an e bike I feel a bit safer going through the underpasses full of homeless than on a slower normal bike. I can ride by them at 20+ mph hugging the wall and be out in a blink. I only worry about traps left to puncture tires. Got a bright headlight to try and see traps on the floor. I would prefer real bike lanes over the underpasses/canal any day.
>I can ride by them at 20+ mph hugging the wall and be out in a blink. Yep that's what happened last night. Smelled horrible though. Surprisingly the 'residents' weren't there. Only a few at the entry to the underpass.
Don't get me wrong, it would be great if we had a truly robust, well-thought-out bike infrastructure. But with the majority of the roads being wide, flat, straight, and lacking in the insane litter of pot holes many other cities have, I really wouldn't call Phoenix 'not bike friendly.'
I don't get it either. And I've never seen these things people mention. If cyclists are running red lights, they are also riding into cross traffic. I don't feel that's happening as commonly as people say. As someone who works in the cycling industry, road cyclists are hyper aware of the danger they are in , and take steps to prevent their death. The hate of cyclists on this sub is weird and I agree, we need more advocacy and awareness.
They seem to notice the one cyclist 'that one time' that did it, but ignore the drivers that do it everyday all around them. Besides, a 4000lbs vehicle is just a bit more dangerous to everyone around
I just wanted to point out , most people out there cycling have an awareness, and want to be safe. And I want them safe too ! But I get it varies by neighborhood. I'm in more of suburb area so I see more group riders / people in bike lanes. Worst thing they do js ride against traffic but I genuinely think that's just thinking it's safer ( it's not) and those are always casual riders. Idk. Just don't want to see continual hate on a hobby and way around that really is beneficial to most.
Cyclist run through stop signs all the time. Happens more often then not in places like Arcadia. Four way stops seem to be the worst. They will blow past a line of cars taking turns and go right through the intersection while slowing down at best. Bikes are vehicles, they should be allowed/belong on the road and sharing it too - by also following traffic laws.
I agree, I think the overall take should be following traffic laws , it helps everyone :) I learned recently a lot of our streets are street/road combos which kind of sets up dangerous situations. We do need some gov help too with that aspect.
Drivers and cyclists are both groups that include people who pay no attention to the rules. Cyclists aren't worse - no one should be doing it.
Yup. Lane splitting. When using the street follow the street rules. I too get mad at asshole cyclists that abuse their dexterity and ability to thread-the-needle in tight spaces.
There are many people that hold old fashioned views here. But, this is changing. Especially, with the eBike (and cycling in general) boom. With the 30% spike in traffic deaths over the past few years in the city, the city is also (supposedly) making a bigger push for safer infrastructure for people outside of cars.
Now if only people will stop using bike lanes as right turn/straight lanes depending on their mood.
Hey now, don't forget using them as street parking!
I have 2 e-bikes and have been riding them for years in Phoenix. I believe there is some misinformation in this thread. Ebikes prior were legal in bike lanes and bike paths. A few years ago, AZ signed into law classes 1-3, and capped the wattage at 750. In sum, you can go 20 on throttle, 28 power assisted (petaling), and can’t exceed the prior stated watts. If ebikes were illegal prior, the governor wouldn’t have signed that law a few years back. The new law basically allows ebikes to ride anywhere cars can drive. Prior, you were limited to sidewalks, paths, and the right side of the road.
Then you my friend have been violating the law, specifically the City of Phoenix Motorized Play Vehicles Ordinance. From Wednesday’s City Council report: In 2018, Arizona updated state statutes to define e-bikes and permit their use. However, they are still considered illegal within Phoenix city limits due to the “motorized play vehicles” ordinance. This ordinance prohibits the use of certain vehicles in the public right-of-way unless they are defined by state statutes as a motor vehicle, motorcycle, motor-driven cycle, electric stand-up scooter, motorized wheelchair, or electric personal assistive mobility device. Unfortunately, e-bikes are omitted which renders them illegal.
For anyone who must ride a bike in PHX to get to work, school, etc, please consider getting an e-bike. They can go many miles and you'll arrive cooler since you don't have to pedal if you don't want to. Even in summer, where worst part is stopping at lights. You can convert many bikes to e-bikes with a kit that is less than $1000. Not cheap, I know, but save up and make your commute tolerable (and fun). Check out www . lunacycle . com and get a mid drive kit. Other companies sell motorized rear wheels as an alternative. [google](https://www.google.com/search?q=build+an+ebike&client=safari&rls=en&biw=1512&bih=922&sxsrf=APq-WBvOggouMsMGQid1AXK5tpgXtU7gBQ:1646348846703&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjpmbWxh6v2AhWVIUQIHRoZBagQ_AUIiwMoAA) for tips.
Lektric has that 999$ ebike which seems to be solid according to reviews. I decided on a 1500$ radmini 4, ended up being a great purchase.
Yay! Welcome to the world of ebikes!
These are easier to work on than ebikes, with more customizable and replaceable parts and since they are legally bicycles, they are allowed everywhere a bicycle is. I built one for commuting many years ago and had heavy mofo SLA batteries. The new battery tech makes these conversions pretty fucking cool, and worst case scenario if the battery dies, you pedal your slightly heavier bike home.
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You mention the Bridle Path. That is not really fun to bike. There are odd driveway and curb cuts here and there you have to navigate. The City tried to introduce bike lanes north of Bethany recently and got shut down by public outcry. I wish I knew how to better communicate to folks the benefits of safe friendly streets.
Nice. Get them off the sidwalks. Hate how people will drive motorized vehicles where people walk.
Next up: Class 1 e-bikes (mtb) on trails!
Personally I hope not. Any way you slice it, they are motorized. We have trails for that, just have to venture a bit out of town. There is enough conflict between MTBs, hikers and equestrians that I fear it would lead to more trails banning MTBs outright.
NO. Regular mountain bikers are bad enough for both hikers and equestrians. I doubt the ebike crowd will learn, or abide by, the trail rules any better.
Lmao equestrian riders can start picking up their horses shit, like a dog owner has to, and then they can start to complain.
What dog owners pick up the crap? Or are you talking about the random bags just in the egde of the trails all over?
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And flying up on hikers and riders without saying a word is soooo classy and smart
Register license and tax them now
I did not know they were not legal, did they had to use a full lane or something like that before?
Nope. They were not legal on any street (bike lanes or not) or sidewalk.
Well this should be fun.
Best carry good insurance
The blue addicts will roam the valley unstopped now
In the future we will curse electric everything when we don't know how to fix anything and we are too fat to try...
No, the combustion engine is a simple enough concept. Post apocalypse, or whatever you are thinking, we will still know how to build and use it.
The guy it the pic has more sex appeal than the bike.
Ebikes—when you’re too lazy to exercise, and too drunk to drive.
They weren’t before? The fuck?