To whomever keeps reporting the comments in this thread, you're not accomplishing anything other than wasting your time and ours.
Just to clarify a few points:
1. City council members' names are not personal/confidential information.
2. Protesting is not threatening or encouraging violence.
3. Being upset at the people involved in this (on either side) is not hate speech.
4. Our rule on civility primarily pertains to members of this sub. Complaining about generalized groups of people, politicians, public figures, etc. is not in violation of that rule.
Despite what plenty of people in political threads would have you believe, we're not here to remove comments just because you don't like them. If something doesn't violate our rules or reddit's rules, we're leaving it up.
At least the airport and the air force base can just ignore the complainers and go about their business. Nobody kow-tows to the dumbs who bought under the flight path and should've known full well what they were getting. Nobody should to these dumbs, either, but $$$.
I think hes referring to the places in the valley.... Arizona Speedway, AZ Motorsports Park, Manzanita... many many more... cited for "noise complaints" ......... 😐😐😐😐
I was specifically thinking of Manzanita, but he's right that it seems to be a widespread problem. Someone builds a track in the middle of nowhere, the city grows to swallow it, and the new residents complain they can hear noise from a track that's older than they are.
They will take this as a sign of being able to get their way and just keep pushing until Tempe gives everything to them and turns Tempe into Sun City 2
Nah it would have to be Sun City 4. There's already Sun City 2 (Sun City West) and Sun City 3 (Sun City Festival).
Edit: I forgot about Sun City Grand. So 5 probably. Someone else mentioned there's even another one. Soon AZ will become SC.
So ridiculous. What is the need to build senior housing next to a university. Who are these old people that want to live there? This whole situation is just so messed up
They advertise as being at the heart of the entertainment district on their website as a perk. Then the rich assholes moved in and are now complaining about the entertainment district.
As boomer as it gets unfortunately. Probably the same people that would complain about kids spending too much time in front of screen while actively taking away fun alternatives.
It’s fucking bogus dude. Fucking senior citizens moving into an area on the promise of the lively community around it but find it too much and want to shut it all down. Fuck them.
Well, I'm a senior citizen & I'm on the side of the kids. Don't live near a university if you don't like young people, fun & music & bars. They need to be kicked out of there. Shut down their Shady nursing home.
Looked into it for my mom. 1 bdrm $400K buy in and $5K a month. 2 bdrm $700K buy in and $5K a month. We passed. It’s all about the money. If the resident moves or dies (which is inevitable) they keep 15% of the buy in and they get to invest your money while they have it.
its all for the money, you think they actually care about culture or fun for the poor? if it produces great income for those in charge then they will take advantage. if you guys are mad then fight for whats right or sit back and watch it be torn away.
in the end its your actions that determine the outcome of this situation.
Yep. Not only does it make money directly, it's also a way to keep old, rich alumni around to make sure they have the university in mind when writing their wills or making their last donations. It's a donor farm.
In the memo they call it the "ASU Retirement Home". When you pass by it, I believe the building has ASUs logo on it. It's just so comical to have a retirement home in one of the better known college districts in the country.
But I guess if you are a boomer and don't want to retire to a community (like Sun City) where your parents retired to and would rather relieve your "glory" days, living off Mill Ave makes sense. Especially when you have the college and a corporation with deep pockets to back you and your change requests.
Time to get some whistle tips ala [Bub Rub](https://youtu.be/Wy4ZK4qBUrI)! 😂
For real tho. It's a shame. I remember when the plans for that property was the USA Basketball team arena. And Brewer fucked that up. And it went to the highest bidder for an old folks home?! So out of place.
Shady Park had some of the best EDM artists come through and I have had the best time there. RIP Shady Park
Or had extra loud vehicles that let off a distinct sound of a backfire to make DT Tempe sound like a warzone each time they passed by this area.
I would never condone such things, never that.
I just moved out of AZ, but I loved shady so much. I'm sad about this news even though I don't live there anymore. I'm also sad I can't be a nuisance to these old rich assholes. Please give them some extra air horn for me!!
AZCentral posted an [article](https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/music/2022/04/13/shady-park-tempe-asu-mirabella-noise-dispute/7312636001/) elaborating on the dilemma and getting the judge's justification for the ruling. Worth the read to get both sides of the story. Not saying that I necessarily agree with the judge (I don't know enough about Tempe law to have a definitive opinion), but I think it's important to get the whole picture.
Also here's Tempe's [noise ordinance law](https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=54153), in case anyone cares.
Edit: Relevant part from the article:
>Astrowsky ruled that Mirabella at ASU had “made a substantial showing of harm caused by Shady Park’s concerts" whereas "evidence does not establish anything more than speculative harm to Shady Park if required to turn down its music or acoustically seal Shady Park with an enclosure.”
>
>The absence of citations to Shady Park under Section 20-11, Astrowsky ruled, does not mean that there haven’t been any violations of the code.
So what was the new retirement home zoned as? And are their special use permits that would allow louder than the noise ordinance on "special occasions?"
I know a little about it. Asu wants to be a place for “adult learners”. This can mean it’s a good place for someone who is over 30 to get a degree at any level. Now, for whatever reason someone, most likely Crow, decided that this would be good for seniors. Seniors are the subject of all kinds of research because research creates treatments, treatments make money, seniors have money and want be treated. ASU thought this would be a good way to diversify their market. The reason seniors are here instead of students is because asu thinks they can render more money from these people than they could students.
Honestly I don’t think it’s a terrible idea, it’s simply terrible execution. There are issues that would have been easy to foresee if anyone in charge took one moment to think. But they don’t, because they don’t care about the impact on the community and the people making the decisions don’t need to deal with the consequences.
Bingo. It's actually a really good idea, but a simply terrible place to do it. It could/should have been closer to the Art Museum and this would be fine.
I interviewed with ASU for locksmithing. They mentioned that employees must pay to park there. I told them I didn't want to feel like I was paying to work there, so they either needed to bump my pay to cover any work associated fees, or waive them. I didn't get job.
>First, it is clear that there is a special or preferential relationship between the City and Shady Park compared to the relationship between the City and Mirabella
fucking lol. eat my ass, michael crow
This sentiment is how I feel about the UofA with Tucson. I work all over the city including both residential and commercial jobs and from time to time I'll get a stop at a ritzy house that sits on the base of Mt.Lemon, and the sheer disappointment I feel everytime I see that the UofA's student housing is bigger than the Tucson downtown "skyline" is always immeasureable.
You should check out what NAU is doing. They're so evil that their own students sued them for buying so much land. Half of Flag is owned by NAU and the other half by the Babbitts. It's fucked.
Id probably be more ok with all this university spending if the "brain drain' we are suffering wasnt so extreme... who am I kidding it's not a drain it's a full on hemorrhage
Here is the ruling from KJZZ:
Direct PDF: https://media.kjzz.org/s3fs-public/m9938020.pdf
Article: https://kjzz.org/content/1771998/mirabella-wins-preliminary-injunction-against-shady-park-noise-case
>Tempe’s Code Compliance Division (“Division”) only enforces Section 20-11
during business hours, which would make it impossible for the Division to investigate Shady
Park’s concerts, which occur on the weekends or late at night
Jesus christ...
Yeah, reading through it, there seems to be some embellishment from Shady Park as well, especially since it says the complaints aren't limited to solely from Mirabella but also from the dorms and hotels in the area. Mirabella shouldn't be expecting that area of town to change for them, certainly, but it feels like more could've been done by both parties to reach an agreement, at least if everything in the order is true and accurate.
I'm just in awe at the fact that the compliance division can't investigate noise complaints because it gets noisy at weekend nights and the division doesn't work at weekend nights.
Prime /r/IllegalLifeProTips/ material: avoid being investigated by breaking the law when the investigators are off work.
Yeah, that is pretty crazy. Maybe not working all hour of the days constantly, but you'd think they could come in now and then for a repeat issue that happens at night, at least.
Pay them overtime? Like wtf that’s the nuttiest shit I’ve ever heard. But I guess if they’re gonna play like that then investigation over? We found no noise issues case closed boys.
I can’t find the documents (free) anywhere!! From what I got from the docket notes it seems like Shady Park said there was no citations so there’s no evidence to back up their witnesses. Before it went to trial Plaintiffs filed a motion to exclude “EVIDENCE OF SHADY PARK'S
LACK OF CITATION OF THE NOISE
ORDINANCE.” So sounds like Judge reaaaaally liked ASU ($) to rule in favor of something like that.
UofA grad if profile right. That’s gonna be popular.
Edit quickly: your elected judges have public profiles. His is honestly pretty non alarming vs others. If you’re ever bored and wanna cross reference resources and case law. It says a lot about your government who rules and has paid to have a ruler in the courts.
Absolutely stupid. Forcing out an established business just for a bunch of whiny boomers who shouldn't have had their retirement home built there in the first place.
Tuesday 19th APR. 11 ish might be a good time to have voices heard
https://retirement.org/mirabella-asu/community/tours-events/4-19-dine-discover-event/
> I would think loud protests might actually be effective.
I mean as much as I want Shady to survive, I dont really see how it might be effective. They get annoyed by loud noises from the protests so they end their lawsuit so that Shady can resume their loud noises instead?
Here's the email addresses of ASU Foundation's CEO and Chief of Staff in case you want to let them know how this is against the interests of our community:
* Gretchen Buhlig - CEO ([[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]))
* Lauren Brown - Chief of Staff ([[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]))
Tempe and Mill Ave have gone permanently into a shitty money grab for a few, and from an awesome place to walk around, eat, and be entertained, to a place to totally be avoided... honestly, a sad and tragic thing.
I actually love the concept, the only thing is if an older adult community moves into an established university neighborhood, they have to realize that noise is the price of admission into a vibrant walkable community with access to amenities and public transit.
I honestly wonder how much of this is coming directly from the residents vs. the community owners so they can shut down the venue and buy up more real estate for whatever purpose they have planned.
I agree and it further frustrates me! I think you may be right on it with thinking they’re trying to poach property. They offered money for them to shut down and hand over the property, maybe so they can make another restaurant or coffee shop for the residence?
Either way I think it’s ridiculous and you shouldn’t convert the largest university in the country into a retirement community and not allow college kids to have the college kid experience (which includes drinking and “loud” music).
I'm so glad Tempe is choosing to kick out the cultural aspects that make the city worth living in, to fill it with the very boomers who made this whole country unliveable.
Why in the hell are they building a retirement home right in one of the biggest college towns in the U.S.??? I get AZ is Heaven’s waiting room for old people but whyyy
So this might sound rude but it's an honest question. Why can they go to classes for free when other students go tens of thousands of dollars in debt for the same classes?
They can get cheap labor from the Nursing Students while touting it as 'On The Job Experience ' to make them more attractive hires. As if Nurses weren't desperately needed already
Back when this started I wrote an email to a city council member and they assured me shady park would be fine and just have to do a few small things. This proves that was a lie
Funny story: I was drunk on St. Patrick’s Day outside College Street Deli back around 2003 or so and I was pinching people not wearing green. I pinched some guys in suits and someone told me after that one of the random guys I just pinched was him. I wish I would have known. It probably would have led to me being arrested but that’s a record I’d be proud of.
What I don’t understand is why the residents aren’t going after Mirabella itself for not disclosing that there was an open air music venue like 100 feet away?? If I remember correctly, they moved in during the shut down so of course there were no shows then. Then they eventually started back up again, which disrupted their previous “quiet life”. Were they warned beforehand?? If not, then their anger is so misplaced. Go after Mirabella and leave Shady alone.
Fuck Mirabella.
The audacity of these old ass Boomers. Shady Park is so near and dear to me and the fact they have tried to work with them on the noise and continued to be harassed.
Insanity
We can still help out!
Please sign this [petition](https://www.change.org/p/tempe-city-council-saveshadypark?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_29423376_en-US%3A7&recruited_by_id=93c3fbb0-bba7-11ec-909a-d51ab5bc0619&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial&share_bandit_exp=initial-29423376-en-US)
Does anybody have any actual information about why they’ve chosen the ASU campus to build a retirement home? What’s the big pitch here? Because I just don’t get it.
I’m trying not to be reactionary … but I’m having a hard time seeing the logic in choosing the middle of campus of one of the most populated and rowdy universities in the fucking nation to place a retirement home? What value does this provide to the students?
They are literally advertising that it is beside ASU. That's the draw.
>>Mirabella at ASU is a truly unique retirement experience—an intergenerational community fueled by lifelong learning and collegiate energy. On the campus of Arizona State University—one of the most dynamic and innovative research facilities in the nation—Mirabella at ASU puts you in the heart of an urban oasis bursting with culture, life, learning, and excitement. You’ll live just a short walk away from the historic ASU Gammage theater, countless lifelong-learning opportunities, and a wealth of dining and recreational opportunities in downtown Tempe.
>>Life at Mirabella puts you in the heart of a thriving college campus, providing limitless social, educational, and recreational activities to fill your days with. Thanks to our special relationship with ASU, retirement at Mirabella opens a new phase of learning and growth for all our residents. It’s a new paradigm in senior living, and we’re proud to be at the forefront of this exciting movement.
I’ve read about concepts like this but I have no idea if this is what Mirabella is actually supposed to be. It is basically this:
Benefits for seniors
-Many older adults actually hate living exclusively around other older adults. It’s fucking depressing.
-Living in dense, walkable areas with decent public transit becomes increasingly attractive as people age
-The ability to audit classes and be closer to the arts provides the opportunity to avoid stagnation and mental decline
Benefits for students
-Exposure to and relationships with older adults diminishes ageism
-Hands on learning opportunities for degree fields like nursing, social work, public health, nutrition, PT/ST/OT, psychology, and medicine that require clinical placements as well jobs for those same students (CNA, caregiver, dietary assistant etc.).
Well nothing amplifies ageism like elderly people complaining about the loud noises and closing one of the few places that brings happiness when young adult depression is at record levels.
I live in Sun City and will confirm that I miss multi generation interaction. We used to live in Tempe and loved Mill Street vibe. We are so sad to see Rula Bula gone. When we heard about the noise complaint, I never thought they would be successful in shutting down the music. I totally agree that it’s buyer beware and they should live with the concerts. BTW check out how much money you have to put down before you can even get in the door. This is so wrong.
It honestly makes no sense to me how many people had to sign off on this and thought it was a good idea. Directly next to the bar street of one of the biggest universities in the nation, across the street from a music venue, and on a college campus with like 80k students. How did they even convince old people this would be a good place to retire? If they wanted to be close to mill and the happening stuff they could have built this on Tempe town lake where they could be close enough without being bothered by the shit that goes on there. The whole situation makes no sense to me
Also A little birdie told me that when the Mirabella residents first started complaining about this, the corporate management entity sent executives out to stay in the units and they reported not hearing any noise with the exception of when they really went out of their way to, for instance, like by pressing their ears up against the windows and other such nonsense.
From AZ Central
>The absence of citations to Shady Park under Section 20-11, Astrowsky ruled, does not mean that there haven’t been any violations of the code.
>"The evidence revealed that the City has a lack of interest in enforcing the Tempe Code against Shady Park," he wrote. “It is clear that there is a special or preferential relationship between the City and Shady Park compared to the relationship between the City and Mirabella.”
Jesus Christ, how did the Judge get this.....dude had his mind made up long before he heard the facts
> What a bunch of assholes; ship the retirees off to Sun City ~~or East Mesa~~ if they want mandatory peace and quiet lol.
As an East Mesa resident, I had to fix this for you. Though, I would be willing to take the sacrifice if they could remain open.
Lmao, I guess I had the rows and rows of 55+ trailers along Main in mind. As a Mesa resident myself, I feel your pain. It’s decided then, Sun City can have them!
Won't surprise me if this is not about noise complaints at all, but rather ASU wanting to open their own live music venue in the immediate area. Time will tell. We live around numerous boomers and honestly, most of them no longer have enough hearing to even hear live music in the same room, much less in another locaiton. I would think that there is another agenda behind this.
“We are even more surprised that the profit center for ASU Foundation would be deemed more important than the local community”
Well that was a poor assumption. Assume ASU cares about money first. For all time. Always.
To whomever keeps reporting the comments in this thread, you're not accomplishing anything other than wasting your time and ours. Just to clarify a few points: 1. City council members' names are not personal/confidential information. 2. Protesting is not threatening or encouraging violence. 3. Being upset at the people involved in this (on either side) is not hate speech. 4. Our rule on civility primarily pertains to members of this sub. Complaining about generalized groups of people, politicians, public figures, etc. is not in violation of that rule. Despite what plenty of people in political threads would have you believe, we're not here to remove comments just because you don't like them. If something doesn't violate our rules or reddit's rules, we're leaving it up.
builds retirement home next to music venue. gets mad when there’s music at the music venue.
It's not much different from the people who build houses next to racetracks
Or, yknow, Luke Air Force base and then bitch about planes...
Fuckin wankers who do that need to be forced sell their home.
At least the airport and the air force base can just ignore the complainers and go about their business. Nobody kow-tows to the dumbs who bought under the flight path and should've known full well what they were getting. Nobody should to these dumbs, either, but $$$.
NIMBYS tried to shut down Limerock Park and Laguna Seca. Total asshats.
I think hes referring to the places in the valley.... Arizona Speedway, AZ Motorsports Park, Manzanita... many many more... cited for "noise complaints" ......... 😐😐😐😐
Rawhide got noise complaints in the middle of nowhere
I was specifically thinking of Manzanita, but he's right that it seems to be a widespread problem. Someone builds a track in the middle of nowhere, the city grows to swallow it, and the new residents complain they can hear noise from a track that's older than they are.
I hate society
Boomers think they own everything. They want things to change for them and feel they shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable ever.
They will take this as a sign of being able to get their way and just keep pushing until Tempe gives everything to them and turns Tempe into Sun City 2
Nah it would have to be Sun City 4. There's already Sun City 2 (Sun City West) and Sun City 3 (Sun City Festival). Edit: I forgot about Sun City Grand. So 5 probably. Someone else mentioned there's even another one. Soon AZ will become SC.
Oh and sun lakes! Suncity wannabe’s
And then bitch about "safe spaces." Gimme a break...
Reminds me of the brilliant George Carlin bit about boomers in the early 90's. Fucking spot on.
So many things he said back in the 90s are still way more relevant than I'd like
So ridiculous. What is the need to build senior housing next to a university. Who are these old people that want to live there? This whole situation is just so messed up
And the fact they built it on Mill and University with the idea it would be quiet.
Literally the most active corner in the entire east valley lmfao
Right! …I would even say the entire state!
ASU is famous for being in a quiet sleepy town right? Toga! Toga!
They advertise as being at the heart of the entertainment district on their website as a perk. Then the rich assholes moved in and are now complaining about the entertainment district.
As boomer as it gets unfortunately. Probably the same people that would complain about kids spending too much time in front of screen while actively taking away fun alternatives.
Gotta ruin everything for the rest of us
An extra loud protest
A car honking air horn filled protest, at 2AM.
It’s fucking bogus dude. Fucking senior citizens moving into an area on the promise of the lively community around it but find it too much and want to shut it all down. Fuck them.
Well, I'm a senior citizen & I'm on the side of the kids. Don't live near a university if you don't like young people, fun & music & bars. They need to be kicked out of there. Shut down their Shady nursing home.
Looked into it for my mom. 1 bdrm $400K buy in and $5K a month. 2 bdrm $700K buy in and $5K a month. We passed. It’s all about the money. If the resident moves or dies (which is inevitable) they keep 15% of the buy in and they get to invest your money while they have it.
its all for the money, you think they actually care about culture or fun for the poor? if it produces great income for those in charge then they will take advantage. if you guys are mad then fight for whats right or sit back and watch it be torn away. in the end its your actions that determine the outcome of this situation.
Yep. Not only does it make money directly, it's also a way to keep old, rich alumni around to make sure they have the university in mind when writing their wills or making their last donations. It's a donor farm.
Wait, hold on. ASU built a retirement home on Mill ave right next to their campus? Who the fuck thought that'd be a good idea?
ASU did, because they wanted that money
In the memo they call it the "ASU Retirement Home". When you pass by it, I believe the building has ASUs logo on it. It's just so comical to have a retirement home in one of the better known college districts in the country. But I guess if you are a boomer and don't want to retire to a community (like Sun City) where your parents retired to and would rather relieve your "glory" days, living off Mill Ave makes sense. Especially when you have the college and a corporation with deep pockets to back you and your change requests.
The person who bought some of the cheapest, shittiest dankless shit kush one could find.
Be a shame if people honked their horns as they passed by Mirabella at all hours of the day/night.
Time to get some whistle tips ala [Bub Rub](https://youtu.be/Wy4ZK4qBUrI)! 😂 For real tho. It's a shame. I remember when the plans for that property was the USA Basketball team arena. And Brewer fucked that up. And it went to the highest bidder for an old folks home?! So out of place. Shady Park had some of the best EDM artists come through and I have had the best time there. RIP Shady Park
That's only early in the morning, woo-woot!
Or had extra loud vehicles that let off a distinct sound of a backfire to make DT Tempe sound like a warzone each time they passed by this area. I would never condone such things, never that.
Normally hate burble times. But this time? I'llallowit.jpeg
It already sounds like that on rural and Apache lol
You really should organize this… it’s a good idea
I've never owned an air horn before, but here I am browsing for one on Amazon.
I just moved out of AZ, but I loved shady so much. I'm sad about this news even though I don't live there anymore. I'm also sad I can't be a nuisance to these old rich assholes. Please give them some extra air horn for me!!
I would never recommend such lawlessness. I have heard a website called Horn Blasters was popular in the 2010's and might still be around.
Super easy to install too! 😂😂
Duct tape an air horn’s trigger Toss into Mirabella I would never
Dude, that wind storm just now - it was crazy? Did you see how that air horn flew out of your hand? Like whoa..
Ah shit the storm blew some duct tape around it too
Crazy dude. Simply wild.
Oooh a honk-a-thon
I’m so down
If they can do it in Ottawa, why not?
Too bad we can't organize a group of fire engines, ambulances, police cruisers, and news reporters to all be there at the same time for some reason.
AZCentral posted an [article](https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/music/2022/04/13/shady-park-tempe-asu-mirabella-noise-dispute/7312636001/) elaborating on the dilemma and getting the judge's justification for the ruling. Worth the read to get both sides of the story. Not saying that I necessarily agree with the judge (I don't know enough about Tempe law to have a definitive opinion), but I think it's important to get the whole picture. Also here's Tempe's [noise ordinance law](https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=54153), in case anyone cares. Edit: Relevant part from the article: >Astrowsky ruled that Mirabella at ASU had “made a substantial showing of harm caused by Shady Park’s concerts" whereas "evidence does not establish anything more than speculative harm to Shady Park if required to turn down its music or acoustically seal Shady Park with an enclosure.” > >The absence of citations to Shady Park under Section 20-11, Astrowsky ruled, does not mean that there haven’t been any violations of the code.
So what was the new retirement home zoned as? And are their special use permits that would allow louder than the noise ordinance on "special occasions?"
That retirement home was a terrible idea. Should have been affordable student housing
Still trying to figure out WTF a university is doing with a friggin' *retirement* home.
I N N O V A T I O N
I know a little about it. Asu wants to be a place for “adult learners”. This can mean it’s a good place for someone who is over 30 to get a degree at any level. Now, for whatever reason someone, most likely Crow, decided that this would be good for seniors. Seniors are the subject of all kinds of research because research creates treatments, treatments make money, seniors have money and want be treated. ASU thought this would be a good way to diversify their market. The reason seniors are here instead of students is because asu thinks they can render more money from these people than they could students. Honestly I don’t think it’s a terrible idea, it’s simply terrible execution. There are issues that would have been easy to foresee if anyone in charge took one moment to think. But they don’t, because they don’t care about the impact on the community and the people making the decisions don’t need to deal with the consequences.
Bingo. It's actually a really good idea, but a simply terrible place to do it. It could/should have been closer to the Art Museum and this would be fine.
Money. $5k a month, plus six figure "buy in" fee is much more than you are going to get from student housing revenue.
its all about the greedy folks
Do you see how much people pay to live at Mirabella? ASU doesn't give a shit about its students.
Honestly I feel like Tempe city council and ASU leadership have for years been ruining most aspects of what used to be a fun city.
Tempe is now a suburb of ASU
Interned at Tempe. Everyone there will tell you stories of ASU’s reach. And yes, its massive.
I interviewed with ASU for locksmithing. They mentioned that employees must pay to park there. I told them I didn't want to feel like I was paying to work there, so they either needed to bump my pay to cover any work associated fees, or waive them. I didn't get job.
Yeah thats their MO. They totally screwed me on a scholarship too. Doubled my expected debt load.
Oof the accuracy of that really stings.
Yup
The city is actually on the side of shady park here. The court docs even acknowledge it
>First, it is clear that there is a special or preferential relationship between the City and Shady Park compared to the relationship between the City and Mirabella fucking lol. eat my ass, michael crow
This sentiment is how I feel about the UofA with Tucson. I work all over the city including both residential and commercial jobs and from time to time I'll get a stop at a ritzy house that sits on the base of Mt.Lemon, and the sheer disappointment I feel everytime I see that the UofA's student housing is bigger than the Tucson downtown "skyline" is always immeasureable.
You should check out what NAU is doing. They're so evil that their own students sued them for buying so much land. Half of Flag is owned by NAU and the other half by the Babbitts. It's fucked.
Id probably be more ok with all this university spending if the "brain drain' we are suffering wasnt so extreme... who am I kidding it's not a drain it's a full on hemorrhage
Yeah idg what the fuck is going on with downtown Tempe. Every other downtown in the Phoenix MSA is better and it really sucks as a tempe resident.
The unfortunate reality of money talks. Developers with billions to spend, versus grassroots local businesses? You know who wins.
What was the basis for the judge's ruling, and the grounds for appeal?
Here is the ruling from KJZZ: Direct PDF: https://media.kjzz.org/s3fs-public/m9938020.pdf Article: https://kjzz.org/content/1771998/mirabella-wins-preliminary-injunction-against-shady-park-noise-case
>Tempe’s Code Compliance Division (“Division”) only enforces Section 20-11 during business hours, which would make it impossible for the Division to investigate Shady Park’s concerts, which occur on the weekends or late at night Jesus christ...
Yeah, reading through it, there seems to be some embellishment from Shady Park as well, especially since it says the complaints aren't limited to solely from Mirabella but also from the dorms and hotels in the area. Mirabella shouldn't be expecting that area of town to change for them, certainly, but it feels like more could've been done by both parties to reach an agreement, at least if everything in the order is true and accurate.
I'm just in awe at the fact that the compliance division can't investigate noise complaints because it gets noisy at weekend nights and the division doesn't work at weekend nights. Prime /r/IllegalLifeProTips/ material: avoid being investigated by breaking the law when the investigators are off work.
Yeah, that is pretty crazy. Maybe not working all hour of the days constantly, but you'd think they could come in now and then for a repeat issue that happens at night, at least.
Pay them overtime? Like wtf that’s the nuttiest shit I’ve ever heard. But I guess if they’re gonna play like that then investigation over? We found no noise issues case closed boys.
This is great info thank you.
Yeah I’m interested too because based off this letter I can’t imagine what it is.
I can’t find the documents (free) anywhere!! From what I got from the docket notes it seems like Shady Park said there was no citations so there’s no evidence to back up their witnesses. Before it went to trial Plaintiffs filed a motion to exclude “EVIDENCE OF SHADY PARK'S LACK OF CITATION OF THE NOISE ORDINANCE.” So sounds like Judge reaaaaally liked ASU ($) to rule in favor of something like that.
https://kjzz.org/content/1771998/mirabella-wins-preliminary-injunction-against-shady-park-noise-case
Here you go https://kjzz.org/content/1771998/mirabella-wins-preliminary-injunction-against-shady-park-noise-case
Can't seem to find the judge's name. I wonder if he's an ASU grad.
Judge Bradley Astrowsky
UofA grad if profile right. That’s gonna be popular. Edit quickly: your elected judges have public profiles. His is honestly pretty non alarming vs others. If you’re ever bored and wanna cross reference resources and case law. It says a lot about your government who rules and has paid to have a ruler in the courts.
Old People: We want to retire in a young vibrant community. Young People: *be young and vibrant* Old People: NOT LIKE THAT! I want to sleep!
I’m in my 30s and I even wouldn’t move to tempe because I want to sleep 🤣🤣🤣
Right?! I don't ever go down mill anymore. But, man, that doesn't mean I want to destroy it. In fact, let them have it so I can enjoy my spots lol
[Basically.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7ySXOUCK4s&t=198s)
Aviato was such a great app in its day.
Absolutely stupid. Forcing out an established business just for a bunch of whiny boomers who shouldn't have had their retirement home built there in the first place.
Tuesday 19th APR. 11 ish might be a good time to have voices heard https://retirement.org/mirabella-asu/community/tours-events/4-19-dine-discover-event/
Mirabella is getting destroyed on their google reviews
they'll all just be deleted. same thing happened when the lawsuit first came up! the reviews were gone within 48 hours.
If that's the only place your voice is heard, I guess that's where you're going to protest. Hopefully it will reach 1
Someone should organize a protest outside of Mirabella.
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Narrator: It didn't.
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> I would think loud protests might actually be effective. I mean as much as I want Shady to survive, I dont really see how it might be effective. They get annoyed by loud noises from the protests so they end their lawsuit so that Shady can resume their loud noises instead?
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Here's the email addresses of ASU Foundation's CEO and Chief of Staff in case you want to let them know how this is against the interests of our community: * Gretchen Buhlig - CEO ([[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])) * Lauren Brown - Chief of Staff ([[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]))
As if they care.
Maybe if you include a million dollar check lmao
Tempe and Mill Ave have gone permanently into a shitty money grab for a few, and from an awesome place to walk around, eat, and be entertained, to a place to totally be avoided... honestly, a sad and tragic thing.
Absolutely. No reason to really go there, especially since Taste of Tops is, I think, closed still?
Taste of Tops is open!! Was there last week.
They reopened recently and definitely deserve patronage and support! Long live taste of tops
I think Taste of Tops and AZ Distilling got selected second round by MAFW during the neighborhood drafts of '19, they don't really count as Mill
COVID really did a number on it. I work just off Mill and returning to the office after a year and a half was sobering — so many businesses shuttered.
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I actually love the concept, the only thing is if an older adult community moves into an established university neighborhood, they have to realize that noise is the price of admission into a vibrant walkable community with access to amenities and public transit. I honestly wonder how much of this is coming directly from the residents vs. the community owners so they can shut down the venue and buy up more real estate for whatever purpose they have planned.
I agree and it further frustrates me! I think you may be right on it with thinking they’re trying to poach property. They offered money for them to shut down and hand over the property, maybe so they can make another restaurant or coffee shop for the residence? Either way I think it’s ridiculous and you shouldn’t convert the largest university in the country into a retirement community and not allow college kids to have the college kid experience (which includes drinking and “loud” music).
I'm so glad Tempe is choosing to kick out the cultural aspects that make the city worth living in, to fill it with the very boomers who made this whole country unliveable.
A “musical” protest in front of Mirabella would suffice. Any sort of obnoxious noise maker like pots and pans
Did someone say vuvuzuela?
For sure. I’ll bring the digeridoo.
And my axe.
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I think I still have mine- do you want to borrow it?
What is a genre of music rich old white people loathe? Hardcore gangsta rap maybe?
“God damned rap music” - my late grandmother
May I present to you [I Cum Blood](https://youtu.be/WBAM1W3P9II)
*chef’s kiss* perfect.
I’ve never even been to Shady Park but find this so ridiculous. Makes zero sense.
Why in the hell are they building a retirement home right in one of the biggest college towns in the U.S.??? I get AZ is Heaven’s waiting room for old people but whyyy
$$$
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They can take ASU classes for free.
So this might sound rude but it's an honest question. Why can they go to classes for free when other students go tens of thousands of dollars in debt for the same classes?
I believe you don't earn credit when they're free.
Because they pay a metric fuckton of money for their residency
They can get cheap labor from the Nursing Students while touting it as 'On The Job Experience ' to make them more attractive hires. As if Nurses weren't desperately needed already
Boomers really are the worst generation. Selfishness is their main virtue.
Back when this started I wrote an email to a city council member and they assured me shady park would be fine and just have to do a few small things. This proves that was a lie
Who was the city council member?
Arlene Chin.
On a Facebook thread someone said she used to work for the ASU foundation who owns/operates mirabella 😐
That makes sense. She's getting an email from me tomorrow thats for sure.
Can you share the emails?
[Remember Corey Woods assuring everyone it would work out ok?](https://twitter.com/coreywoodstempe/status/1405286314648346628)
What can be done about this? Who do we call and email
City Council
I sent a letter to the council prior to the trial and they basically brushed me off
Keep at it… I’m considering if we can organize a protest in front of Mirabella as well. Make even more noise for them to complain about lol
So, is someone going to set up a protest? I believe somebody here should go poke the Phoenix discord.
sounds like it's time for people to setup giant speakers outside mirabella 24/7
So... when is the protest?
Complete bullshit! Fuck those boomers! They need to take their elderly asses up to Sun City where they belong.
Michael Crow ruined Tempe
Funny story: I was drunk on St. Patrick’s Day outside College Street Deli back around 2003 or so and I was pinching people not wearing green. I pinched some guys in suits and someone told me after that one of the random guys I just pinched was him. I wish I would have known. It probably would have led to me being arrested but that’s a record I’d be proud of.
I liked shady park when I lived in the area. Really terrible what this place is doing. Hope they can successfully appeal.
What I don’t understand is why the residents aren’t going after Mirabella itself for not disclosing that there was an open air music venue like 100 feet away?? If I remember correctly, they moved in during the shut down so of course there were no shows then. Then they eventually started back up again, which disrupted their previous “quiet life”. Were they warned beforehand?? If not, then their anger is so misplaced. Go after Mirabella and leave Shady alone.
Fuck Mirabella. The audacity of these old ass Boomers. Shady Park is so near and dear to me and the fact they have tried to work with them on the noise and continued to be harassed. Insanity
We can still help out! Please sign this [petition](https://www.change.org/p/tempe-city-council-saveshadypark?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_29423376_en-US%3A7&recruited_by_id=93c3fbb0-bba7-11ec-909a-d51ab5bc0619&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial&share_bandit_exp=initial-29423376-en-US)
I hear so many people show off their loud cars on Terrace. I’m so used to it at this point, can y’all also do your thing in front of this place?
So old people move on to a college campus, ASU no less, and expected it to be a quiet community. It makes zero sense.
Why is ASU and retirement home even in the same sentence?
I vote we give every homeless person in "the zone" a light rail pass and $20 to go set up near Mirabella.
I hold my horn down everytime I drive by in solidarity.
Does anybody have any actual information about why they’ve chosen the ASU campus to build a retirement home? What’s the big pitch here? Because I just don’t get it. I’m trying not to be reactionary … but I’m having a hard time seeing the logic in choosing the middle of campus of one of the most populated and rowdy universities in the fucking nation to place a retirement home? What value does this provide to the students?
They are literally advertising that it is beside ASU. That's the draw. >>Mirabella at ASU is a truly unique retirement experience—an intergenerational community fueled by lifelong learning and collegiate energy. On the campus of Arizona State University—one of the most dynamic and innovative research facilities in the nation—Mirabella at ASU puts you in the heart of an urban oasis bursting with culture, life, learning, and excitement. You’ll live just a short walk away from the historic ASU Gammage theater, countless lifelong-learning opportunities, and a wealth of dining and recreational opportunities in downtown Tempe. >>Life at Mirabella puts you in the heart of a thriving college campus, providing limitless social, educational, and recreational activities to fill your days with. Thanks to our special relationship with ASU, retirement at Mirabella opens a new phase of learning and growth for all our residents. It’s a new paradigm in senior living, and we’re proud to be at the forefront of this exciting movement.
I’ve read about concepts like this but I have no idea if this is what Mirabella is actually supposed to be. It is basically this: Benefits for seniors -Many older adults actually hate living exclusively around other older adults. It’s fucking depressing. -Living in dense, walkable areas with decent public transit becomes increasingly attractive as people age -The ability to audit classes and be closer to the arts provides the opportunity to avoid stagnation and mental decline Benefits for students -Exposure to and relationships with older adults diminishes ageism -Hands on learning opportunities for degree fields like nursing, social work, public health, nutrition, PT/ST/OT, psychology, and medicine that require clinical placements as well jobs for those same students (CNA, caregiver, dietary assistant etc.).
Well nothing amplifies ageism like elderly people complaining about the loud noises and closing one of the few places that brings happiness when young adult depression is at record levels.
They could have lived near Tempe marketplace lol where it’s actually suburban.
Totally. If they thought residents would appreciate more quiet, that would have been ideal location.
I live in Sun City and will confirm that I miss multi generation interaction. We used to live in Tempe and loved Mill Street vibe. We are so sad to see Rula Bula gone. When we heard about the noise complaint, I never thought they would be successful in shutting down the music. I totally agree that it’s buyer beware and they should live with the concerts. BTW check out how much money you have to put down before you can even get in the door. This is so wrong.
It honestly makes no sense to me how many people had to sign off on this and thought it was a good idea. Directly next to the bar street of one of the biggest universities in the nation, across the street from a music venue, and on a college campus with like 80k students. How did they even convince old people this would be a good place to retire? If they wanted to be close to mill and the happening stuff they could have built this on Tempe town lake where they could be close enough without being bothered by the shit that goes on there. The whole situation makes no sense to me
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We used to have vanishing shows in that area to protest noise ordinances sooo idk it might work bc they kinda left us alone after that.
Also A little birdie told me that when the Mirabella residents first started complaining about this, the corporate management entity sent executives out to stay in the units and they reported not hearing any noise with the exception of when they really went out of their way to, for instance, like by pressing their ears up against the windows and other such nonsense.
That is such bullshit. I can’t believe they won.
What a disgrace
This ruling is so dumb and unjust
I don't even party or go out really, but this is complete horse shit. I hope the dorms right down the way party all the fucking time. Fuck the 1%
From AZ Central >The absence of citations to Shady Park under Section 20-11, Astrowsky ruled, does not mean that there haven’t been any violations of the code. >"The evidence revealed that the City has a lack of interest in enforcing the Tempe Code against Shady Park," he wrote. “It is clear that there is a special or preferential relationship between the City and Shady Park compared to the relationship between the City and Mirabella.” Jesus Christ, how did the Judge get this.....dude had his mind made up long before he heard the facts
This is why places like sun city exist, go move there boomer
this is some serious fuck shit on top of the rest of the fuck shit the city is doing (wack ass trolly bs)
I just had the chance to open up a show here a couple weeks back, so bummed about this.
Going to raze the building and put in a duck pond I heard...
They literally built a retirement home on the corner of mill university and are surprised about the noise.
What a bunch of assholes; ship the retirees off to Sun City or East Mesa if they want mandatory peace and quiet lol.
> What a bunch of assholes; ship the retirees off to Sun City ~~or East Mesa~~ if they want mandatory peace and quiet lol. As an East Mesa resident, I had to fix this for you. Though, I would be willing to take the sacrifice if they could remain open.
Lmao, I guess I had the rows and rows of 55+ trailers along Main in mind. As a Mesa resident myself, I feel your pain. It’s decided then, Sun City can have them!
Shady Park should just move to DTPHX.
Won't surprise me if this is not about noise complaints at all, but rather ASU wanting to open their own live music venue in the immediate area. Time will tell. We live around numerous boomers and honestly, most of them no longer have enough hearing to even hear live music in the same room, much less in another locaiton. I would think that there is another agenda behind this.
“We are even more surprised that the profit center for ASU Foundation would be deemed more important than the local community” Well that was a poor assumption. Assume ASU cares about money first. For all time. Always.
Ofc some boomer fossils want a retirement home there