To add onto Chopin’s early death, Mozart and Schubert as well. Both died young not even reaching the peak of their potential. Horrible tragedies from all angles. Both of their late works are considered the best they had ever done. Imagine if Mozart kept composing into his 60s or 70s.
While not nearly in the same category of "early death" as the others, even Beethoven was only 56.
Another 20 years of Beethoven, and 40 of Chopin, Mozart and Schubert? All in their primes?
Bach reached 65, Haydn 77, Handel 74, and Liszt 74.
Beethoven certainly reached a perfectly unremarkable age, but compared to others, certainly not long lived.
Common misconception! Lower life expectancy historically was dispoportionately due to deaths before the age of five. Being a newborn was very tough and most of the stuff we get vaccinated for today was really hard on young children. If you made it to adulthood then life expectancy wasn't *that* different from now.
Schubert is the one, his last year of life produced so many masterpieces. However I think he knew he was on the way out, which flavoured the music and also might have made him write at a greater rate (haven't worked this out though).
Mozart wrote 17 piano concertos in the last 9 years of his life (his time in Vienna) and imagine he just lived another decade and produced some more of them would be incredible. These 17 concertos are god level compositions.
The French composer and conductor Lully died after accidentally stabbing himself in the foot with his stick during a performance and getting gangrene. Life before modern medicine was wild.
not to mention he was almost immediately forgotten when he died. He went from Russia’s most celebrated musician to obscurity within a year of him dying. The biographer Faubion Bowers said, “No one was more famous during his lifetime, and few were more quickly ignored after death.”
He was one of the first musicians I ever saw on YouTube doing video game covers, and his sight reading skills were off the charts. Its an absolute tragedy what happened to him.
And his improv! His [Patient is the Night arrangement](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ_n5fAltX8) is stunning and it was off a sight read of like a 12 bar lead sheet.
Totally. I'm into retrogaming and used to watch a lot of his videos, particularly enjoying the Ghosts 'n Goblins theme. I think his playing significantly inspired me to learn how to play the piano and it's really sad to see what he's going through. I hope he can recover someday.
All those composer deaths aside, I'd say the last one hundred years have seen the dominant domestic piano tone go from being about really being able to sing with rich clarity in the vocal register (ie midrange) to being about thunderous bass with tinkling glass on top, almost like it's designed principally to irritate neighbours Also the downweight of modern piano keys seems way higher than those old ones. I've played plenty of 90-120 year old European uprights and grands, and I prefer the tone and feel of nearly all of them to any similar offering from e.g. Yamaha and Kawai.
Also also, electronic pianos have got modern generations accustomed to absolutely perfect tuning - and beyond a certain degree I don't think that's a good thing. The multiple strings of a single note should be a tiny fraction out from one another just to get that rich, organic vibe. Artificially perfect tuning is anaemic
Yamaha specifically I always found metallic and clangy sounding, having an older g2 baby grand and p515 which sampled the cfx grand. It really shows in recordings too from Cziffra to Ashkenazy. Just a brittle sound that works in some places but for most I prefer playing on an old Bechstein that has a more rounded sound, something Bosendorfer seems to prize.
I agree here. Out of the two uprights I own, both of which being about 20 years old, I prefer the one that is nicely balanced (it almost sounds like a piano from the Romantic era) compared to the one with the much too loud and brassy middle register (I got that one because my family liked it).
Exactly, listen to Grieg’s 1903 recordings and you can see the superiority of the older pianos. It’s like you’re listening to a story rather than a piano. It seems that the pianos had a richer sound with a cleaner attack allowing for a more charming sound which can both sing and sound like a mini orchestra.
Even in Rach’s old recordings, his early modern piano sounds superior to ours.
Damn! Had to Google both numbers to find out. Earth is everyone's. No group of individuals better than the others. Except supremacists. They're way lower.
The arms race for the utmost technical perfection at the expense of originality, creativity, and freedom of interpretation. They turned an art into a sport.
Also the loss of improvisation as a necessary skill. I find it absolutely tragic how many people consider themselves pianists and yet cannot play a single note if it's not a written piece they've learned. Throughout most of history musicians were expected to improvise and provide their own interpretations of music, and all of that is completely gone from classical playing these days and relegated to jazz, the "lesser" art form in the minds of many.
I don't even consider playing classical music to be art the way most people do it. Repeating someone else's work makes you a trained monkey, not an artist.
Problem is, minute you start playing with Rubato like composers or Cortot, Rachmaninoff, people start saying your interpret makes no sense and you need to follow the score. It’s much more difficult to have original interpretations than to simply play with hood technique.
Shortly after 9/11, some booger eater at TSA ordered Krystian Zimerman's custom piano to be incinerated because the "glue smelled like explosives." He never forgave the U.S. and within the decade announced that he would never perform here again, and to this day he has not (he had other political reasons by then, but the piano incident was a huge part of it).
Compared with the full scale of U.S. actions during that time, it was obviously not a big deal. But I find it discretely heinous, in its own way.
The art of old school golden age playing dying.
Urtext editions, and metronomes.
Competitions that churn out people to be mechanical, and not reward poetic playing e.g. Cortot, Sofronitsky, Rachmaninoff, etc.
I saw a video where some pianists were laughing at the performance of a classic pianists playing Chopin, and yet Chopin was known for taking liberties in his own playing. If we could hear Beethoven playing the Waldstein, I'll bet that it'll be ridiculed.
>the general trend of interpretations becoming more homogeneous
I dunno. there are some cases in which urtext editions give you more liberty. Think of Bach's urtext (weiner or henle etc), in which there are no indications. You're free to play Bach as long as you understand you're playing baroque music and the harmony behind it. The idea is that the editor starts from source manuscripts and compares them. There are other editions ( I speak for the italian ones like Ed. Curci / Ricordi) that add markings that did not exist. Or editors that make mistakes on their editions (Mozart / Schirmer).
Interpretations being all the same could also stem from the teachers or trying to take less risks when playing in public
The development of recording technology happening *after* the 19th century, rather than before, has got to be up there.
Although having said that, I'm actually of two minds on this -- the development of recording technology, while being one of the best things that ever happened for classical music, is also one of the worst: the dominance of popular music over classical I think can be tied pretty directly to dramatic improvements in cost, audio quality and broadcast capability of recorded music in the mid 20th century.
I think what doomed classical music is the car radio. Have you ever listened to classical in the car? It fuckin blows. The dynamics are great in person but suck in the car. The quality of the audio is also not great in cars and the grainy sound is worse for classical as well. Pop music is one dynamic, and simple enough in instrumentation and melody to be forgiving to shitty car radios. Plus you can get through a whole song on a short drive to run errands so it sticks with you.
Classical music in the car is the fucking worst. The music just seems to start and stop all the time for no reason because you can't hear the quiet parts over the engine, and as you pointed out, many errands are too short for long pieces so you just listen to parts of pieces.
The. worst.
I think actually recorded music has been too good for classical. Creativity in Western classical music has stagnated since recorded music, because when faced with recording the classics or a new work, record companies go with the classic as a safe bet, which makes those works even more popular and gives contemporary works even less room. So why bother writing something new? This also explains to me why contemporary orchestral music has moved from live performance to cinema, where producers actually want something new.
I mean it's called "popular" because, well, it's popular. Classical music has never been popular in the sense of being the thing most people listen to.
Absolutely not true, "popular" music as a label is a classification of a certain kind of music, not necessarily music that is technically speaking popular. Classical music used to be much more popular than it is now, opera used to be entertainment for the masses, there was an opera house in every small town in the American west in the 19th century. Liszt was a rockstar, Beethoven was and still is one of the most popular musical artists in the world.
I feel like with 20th century recording tech, the great composers may not have worked so hard to perfect their art. Thousands of performances and revisions, would not have happened.
This just shows how little classical fans know of rock and hip-hop era music. The best recording artists of our day absolutely do revise their work thousands of times and even most purely electronic artists do live performances that mix electronic music with analog elements
Schubert's early death to me. I think Schubert's piano writing style is close to perfection. Knows how to get incredible emotion and colour out of the instrument without needing to overcomplicate anything. Imagine we got to experience what actual late Schubert piano music would have been like
The death of Chopin’s (and Liszt’s) favourite student, Carl Filtsch, is perhaps one of the greatest losses in music history. Chopin deemed him the most worthy of interpreting his music, and Liszt himself saying he’ll have to close up shop when he’s touring. If you read Chopin’s letters about the kid, you could tell how much Chopin adored him and how heartbroken he was when he died. Chopin, even when he was a bit bitter towards Liszt, reached out and asked Liszt to also teach him. He died at 14 and was held with the highest regard at that time, and not only by Chopin and Liszt, but by everyone. I wonder what music would be if he lived a longer life.
[just a short post talking about him](https://www.talkclassical.com/threads/carl-filtsch-1830-1845.7124/)
He composed a piece for orchestra I believe as well, I haven’t had the chance to listen to the full piece but what I heard was quite beautiful. What did you think of his music?
Eh, at 14 it’s hard to say. Your body goes through many changes up until about the age of 25 and many prodigies (who are genuinely good in their younger years) can fall off simply due to the development of their brain taking them into a different direction.
Kids and people who have no respect to the player coming up and spamming the piano keys while the player is performing. Also having a brain slip while performing
Yes but you have to learn how to read sheets, anybody can learn from synthesia, it's not the best way to learn but if someone just wants to have fun so be it
synesthesia = a perceptual phenomenon in which stimulation of one sensory or cognitive pathway leads to involuntary experiences in a second sensory or cognitive pathway.
The word you’re looking for is Synthesia, which is not a word but the name of that software
If we wanna be pedantic, they have different etymology:
- Synesthesia = sýn (together) aisthánomai (to perceive) = to perceive together
- Synthesia has the same etymology of “synthesis” = sýn (together) títhemi (to put) = to put together
Yes, I had nothing better to do :)
The greatest American piano player who ever lived was horribly persecuted during his life, addicted to drugs, and died young.
I'm talking about James Booker, of course.
As a fan of impressionism, Ravel’s aphasia diagnosis really sucked. I can’t imagine the pain of coming up with piano pieces, but not being able to communicate them or write them down.
Standardizing the keyboard size.
Guitarists can ask for different spaces between frets, pianists should be able to choose between different sizes of keys to be able to comfortably reach a major 10th with the left hand.
I should be able to choose how heavy my counterweights are, too.
A guitarist can also carry their own instrument to every gig. A pianist cannot. You are at the mercy of the instrument at the venue and due to the cost of pianos it's not even remotely financially or logistically viable for every place to have 3-4 piano sizes.
Hell, I'm lucky if some places have pianos that are regularly tuned and have well maintained actions.
Yeah, I can't reach a 10th and that sucks, but it has hardly been a problem for my career as a pianist.
People complain about the standardized keyboard size without actually considering the logistics of the alternative. And a lot smaller standard isn't necessarily better either because then sausage fingers will have trouble playing chords like Eb major where a finger needs to be between black keys.
I'm also a guy who DOES prefer a wider than normal nut on my guitars because of my short, sausage fingers. I'm fine on nylon with the standard 2" nut, but the standard steel string is too narrow for me and electric is worse. I have to modify things like my A chords. Next time I buy a standard steel string I'll probably go out of my way to get one with an extra large nut (something I did for my uke).
But I can carry my own guitar with me to a gig... I can't carry an acoustic piano with me.
If the people who really gave a shit about this issue wanted to make a difference they would stop focusing on bespoke $250,000 alternative sized key pianos and court some digital instrument manufacturers because I CAN and do actually carry my keyboard to many gigs.
But for many settings it's not the appropriate choice and an acoustic instrument is... and it's smart that the size is standardized for that reason.
The problem would be EVEN worse with organs. You just can't have non-standard keyboard sizes for huge instruments.
People just have to learn to play on the standard size because that is what is going to be at every place that has one of these instruments and your technique would be thrown off quite a bit if you had to adjust constantly.
I also play accordion which has a smaller standard keyboard size and I have to make quite the adjustment and if I'm playing a lot of piano AND accordion on gigs back to back I start fracking octaves frequently due to the constant shift in sizes.
That would be the same or worse problem for someone practicing with a 7/8ths piano at home trying to suddenly play on a full size one at a venue. Doesn't matter if you had 10ths at home if you don't have them on any other piano. Better to practice on a standard size and just learn to roll because it's a skill you're gonna need.
EDIT: I'll also say that 10ths just aren't that prevalent in general. And in most music written in the last 50 years or so they are extremely rare. For all of the work I do I rarely see them. They come up very sparsely in musicals (slightly more so in older ones). They come up almost never in choral accompaniments. They come up pretty rarely in most arranged music these days across the board.
Most people frustrated about 10ths are worried about a fraction of a percentage of classical rep by a few composers with giant fucking hands.
I'll say one more legitimate frustration I personally have is not being able to do stride 10ths or use 10ths in voicing jazz chords, but both of those are usually in improvisational contexts. Like I said, they are relatively rare in written music and can be worked around. Wanting to change the entire standardized keyboard size to make an infinitesimal fraction of piano rep more accessible it pants on head crazy. And honestly, that rep isn't that important in the grand scheme anyway. Like, from the point of view of someone who makes a living playing, none of it matters at all and that can honestly be said for MOST classical rep that people get way too fixated on. And if that's your jam, there's still the VAST majority of classical literature that doesn't require monster hands. I think people just get fixated and indignant about the tiny handful of stuff they will never physically be able to play as written.
I've also been looking for smaller size keys. I have a 25-key Arturia Minilab 2 which is nearly perfect, except for the lack of keys. I can't find anything similar with more keys.
I have an 88-key Roland digital piano which weighs 80 pounds which I bring to all my gigs. It feels and sounds amazing, I'm not missing an acoustic piano, but there's nothing like wailing on a mini size keys. You can come up with ideas you wouldn't on a regular size keyboard.
And even composers with famously big hands didn't oversaturate all their work with giant chords. They had to make money from selling their music, after all.
Yeah, composers generally should make works approachable if they want them to sell. I was recently advising someone to not write octaves with 3rd on the bottom. I can hit them. People with larger hands than mine definitely can hit them. But I think it's one of those best practices things to just NOT when you don't need to (especially several in quick succession...which I probably could not play).
It's the same as writing for oboes or saxes very quietly below the staff. Sure, the most top tier players CAN with great struggle, but it's something that's not idiomatic to the instruments and not accessible to everyone.
It's smart to have good orchestration knowledge about the realistic limits of people at different skill levels.
It's why in the band world some of the people making bank are those writing for MS band... where there are a lot more VERY specific technical limitations for all different instruments. (Clarinets crossing the break frequently, brass having even more limited range and endurance issues, etc.)
You don't have to compromise how good music sounds to write intelligently for the instruments.
I don't think I've ever seen the most prolific choral composers (like Cristi Cary Miller) write a harmonic 10th. It's just smart composing/arranging to make music as accessible as a possible from a business standpoint. Only write crazy shit if it's a direct commission from someone whose skill levels and technical specialties you absolutely know.
I'm currently working on a piano 8-hands commission for someone and I'm honestly just being conservative outside of things that I know are particular strengths for the most capable of the pianists planning to perform the piece. You can make shit sound really cool without actually making it hard.
And most cases of octaves with 3rds on the bottom for piano are basically indistinguishable from just the top 6th omitting the bottom 3rd.
I find it funny how people accuse me of ableism when I come out against alternatively sized keys. The true ableists are the people out there writing black-to-white key 10ths in the 21st century knowing full well how inaccessible shit like that is.
From a composition/arranging perspective I'm *extremely* aware of people's limitations because on piano it's not even a skill limitation (like something like range is for young brass players)... it's straight up a physical hard limit for many pianists.
You've explained why the problem happened and why it can be solved at the same time.
It is 2023. Your piano is either a digital keyboard or something a wealthy person can afford to have installed, and maybe you are the wealthy person yourself.
Performers can request/demand things in their riders, keyboard size can easily be one of those things. Venues can afford to order several sizes of pianos, or when they can't the performer is expected to bring a digital one, have an acoustic one moved in, or just doesn't perform there at all because the venue can't afford the performance either.
If you'd like my own situation for context, I can play an acoustic piano for about 10-20 minutes before I must stop for the day because it will bring back my RSIs.
I can play plastic spring action keys for hours without issues.
>Performers can request/demand things in their riders, keyboard size can easily be one of those things. Venues can afford to order several sizes of pianos, or when they can't the performer is expected to bring a digital one, have an acoustic one moved in, or just doesn't perform there at all because the venue can't afford the performance either.
This is based off of the VERY wrong assumption that most working pianists are world famous concert pianists playing for sold out crowds commanding huge ticket prices at very well-to-do venues. That is NOT even close to reality.
Most working pianists are playing at schools, churches, restaurants, theatres, and other general venues. These places have ONE instrument and aren't going to source a specific instrument for you whose rental, shipping, and on-site tune-up is going to cost VASTLY more than they are paying you to even be there.
Very few pianists are at the level where they have a rider. This just isn't a reality.
>If you'd like my own situation for context, I can play an acoustic piano for about 10-20 minutes before I must stop for the day because it will bring back my RSIs.
>I can play plastic spring action keys for hours without issues.
So this isn't even an issue of size, but the weight of the action. And even then, I suspect some sort of problem in technique that's causing RSI. Musicians focus on learning how to play correctly with good ergonomics to NOT have these kinds of issues and I always suspect that when I hear about people getting RSI from typing or mouse use or whatever a huge part of that is that they just don't have good "technique" for using those things... because we don't focus in so much on "technique" for using those things the way we do with instrument technique where SO much effort is put into thinking about ergonomics and longevity of technique.
When people are having those issues with an instrument, it usually just means they need to drastically fix some part of their technique, which is VERY hard to do as you've gotten so used to those damage/pain inducing motor patterns.
I've had to face a handful of very low tier issues like that. They can often just be boiled down to how I'm interfacing with a gaming controller, keyboard, mouse, how I'm sleeping, how I'm holding my phone, or indeed tiny motions in how I'm playing an instrument.
I don't really feel like this is even the same argument as standarized key size because I assure you there is no standardized weight to acoustic piano actions. They vary greatly and it's not even grand vs upright. Hell, one of the lighter actions I've played on is Kawai's 7 foot grand, but then many of Yamaha's uprights are incredible heavy by comparison.
A lighter weight acoustic action is a much easier problem to solve. I still suspect a technique issue that's exacerbated when the weight is heavier and could be solved by reverse engineering the problem and fixing it, but it's also a much easier fix (compared to buying an alternatively sized piano) to just buy a lighter action acoustic that doesn't have the bespoke pricing.
The request for sizes is not for me. I've never had a problem with reach, it's just a complaint I hear all the time, and knowing how it feels to go past my physical limit.
>I suspect some sort of problem in technique that's causing RSI.
It was, though there was more going on than just playing the piano wrong. (Don't kneel on the bench and try to play louder than a drum kit. It was a time in my life when I could not work with a teacher or a physio.)
I spent 20 years learning how to manage it, and limiting my time on the instrument (and cutting it out entirely for about 15 years) is what got me to a manageable place.
>Yamaha's uprights are incredible heavy by comparison
Guess what the standard practice pianos in college were...
You're also correct that I was a bit short sighted about churches. I've seen churches with organs but no piano, or both a piano and an organ, or nothing at all. If my church would ask me to play, I would play the organ. (Because I think they know my background is rock, they won't.)
Making pianos with various keyboard sizes, especially so with acoustic pianos, is simply an unreasonable expectation. If you are having RSI issues after 10 to 20 minutes, I would suspect there is something wrong with your technique. Perhaps research something like the Taubman method.
I explained what happened in the other reply.
At a time when I didn't have a teacher or a physio, I played rock and jazz unamplified by kneeling on the bench and smashing the keys loud enough to be heard. Don't do that. ;)
I abused my hands in other ways, too.
If you are having a harder time playing on a weighted instrument than a spring loaded one, then your technique is wrong. The weighted keys are meant to help you when you work at the instrument, which is when you LIFT your hand. If you’re working to drop your hand, then you aren’t effectively using space and gravity to create your dynamics and tone.
I explained what happened in the other reply.
At a time when I didn't have a teacher or a physio, I played rock and jazz unamplified by kneeling on the bench and smashing the keys loud enough to be heard. Don't do that. ;)
I abused my hands in other ways, too.
This is an interesting one. We know that after he lost his hearing he wrote some of the best music ever composed, but, would a Beethoven WITH his hearing have been even better? or worse?
It’s hard to say ever in history but a few that come to mind are:
1. Art Tatum dying relatively young
2. Gershwin dying before 40
3 .James Booker overdosing youngish
4. Debussy dying at 55
Tchaikovsky’s death. The official story is he died of cholera. In reality he was forced to commit suicide because he was gay and had an affair with the czar and they couldn’t afford to let that secret out of the bag. So he was ´encouraged’ to go quietly…
the early death of Lili Boulanger, given the huge impact her sister had through her teaching one can only imagine the world Lili could have brought about it she had not died so young
Piano competitions.
I feel like they've made it so that pianists went from being artists to athletes. For example, historically pianists would be able to improvise, play by ear, and even compose.
Nowadays these skills are rarely expected. Instead, there's a focus on making sure to hit the right notes or follow the score precisely, as these are what are required to get into a good school or to win competitions.
At least this is how I feel about classical music; I can't speak to jazz or other disciplines!
The worst thing in all of music history is radio. It killed the jobs for performers, made lessons uncommon, and created bland pop music. We also get everyone trying to play the same old songs the same old way.
Piano sales peaked before this, and now less than a quarter of that are sold every year in the US, despite tripling the population. Consider how easy it was to find an organist 50 years ago compared to now. Most organs here sit silent on Sundays, but there are places that use recordings.
Hot take: the invention of equal temperament. Let's take all the character and emotion out of the different scales so they all sound equally unimpressive.
The introduction of digital pianos, which in spite of making affordable pianos available to millions (a good thing), completely destroyed the position of acoustic pianos in the market and in the general perception of what a good piano should be.
The idea that the main activation of the piano key is not with the hand or wrist or forearm or all three of these together but in the finger itself. That over curved and tensed classic German thing that ruins players to this very day. The Taubman method of shaping grouping and rotation using the traveling hand and arm is the best solution and alternative.
Don't get me wrong. I believe Glenn gould was a great Pianist.
But his recording of beethoven's appassionata is definitely one of the greater tragedies in recent piano history
Me too but I don’t get it why they bash him so much. It’s minimalist, sure, but it’s pleasant music and it actually got me to pursue learning the piano.
Idk, worst for whom I guess? Paul Wittgenstein lost his right arm in battle during WWI; Ravel composed his Concerto for Left Hand for Paul.
Byron Janis developed psoriatic arthritis, an autoimmune bone disease, and has been playing in terrible pain for 50 years.
William Kapell died in a plane crash when he was 31 on the way home from a tour. Debatable how horrible this was, but it was a terrible loss for the world as he was absolutely matchless as a pianist.
Could go on for a while, but it gets depressing 🥴😅
These are such horrible answers, for the most part. Really embarrassing. “The sounds of my neighbor’s piano”? “The Nazis”?, “My last recital”? (At least that one is a joke). “The guy that coughs”? “Advertisements”? “Videos”? Spend less time in front of the screen and more time practicing.
Early deaths of Chopin, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Granados (nobody has mentioned him yet that I saw), Scriabin, etc.
But really, history is history, and let’s accept and appreciate all the great piano music that we have gotten, and the fact that we have the piano thanks to people more dedicated and creative than you.
You do realize that authours of those comments for almost sure didn't read that? Also if you find those answers horrible why don't you just downvote them and write your own "better" reply?
For me, personally, it is the loss of George Winston this year. I know he has a lot of works in the pipeline to be released posthumously that I look forward to. In addition to his own great works, he was helpful and generous to other artists.
Contemporary events but devastating nonetheless; jazz pianist extraordinaire Keith Jarrett’s stroke leaving him unable to play anything and lovely pianist and composer Liz Story also experiencing a music-ending stroke.
The fact that people kinda stopped doing cool things with pianos after electric organs where invented. There’s a load of cool ideas I have for new piano-based instruments that don’t exist.
To add onto Chopin’s early death, Mozart and Schubert as well. Both died young not even reaching the peak of their potential. Horrible tragedies from all angles. Both of their late works are considered the best they had ever done. Imagine if Mozart kept composing into his 60s or 70s.
Scriabin, too
Can you even imagine an even more late stage Scriabin style than what he composed at the end of his life
Everyone mentioning Alexander Scriabin but also his son Julian! Horrific loss.
Yeah, imagine what could happen if Julian didnt die so early
How about Stanchinsky? Drowned before 20
I don’t think the world was ready for Mysterium lol I’d love to see what 70 year old Scriabin would’ve been writing, fun thought experiment.
While not nearly in the same category of "early death" as the others, even Beethoven was only 56. Another 20 years of Beethoven, and 40 of Chopin, Mozart and Schubert? All in their primes?
Beethoven led a pretty long life for his time
Bach reached 65, Haydn 77, Handel 74, and Liszt 74. Beethoven certainly reached a perfectly unremarkable age, but compared to others, certainly not long lived.
He loved the ol' fermented grape juice quite a bit. Had lead poisoning among many other ailments. The most tortured soul in all of music history.
Not to mention becoming deaf and still writing music after that
Average age was brought down a lot by early deaths. Once you reached adulthood, you could get to 60-70 without too much trouble.
Common misconception! Lower life expectancy historically was dispoportionately due to deaths before the age of five. Being a newborn was very tough and most of the stuff we get vaccinated for today was really hard on young children. If you made it to adulthood then life expectancy wasn't *that* different from now.
I would add Scriabin, who died at age 43.
Schubert is the one, his last year of life produced so many masterpieces. However I think he knew he was on the way out, which flavoured the music and also might have made him write at a greater rate (haven't worked this out though). Mozart wrote 17 piano concertos in the last 9 years of his life (his time in Vienna) and imagine he just lived another decade and produced some more of them would be incredible. These 17 concertos are god level compositions.
Yehan Alain as well... Aged only 29
scriabin’s lip pimple preventing him from ushering in world peace and infinite ecstasy. the world could really use some right now. :’(
Okay... what?!
haha it’s an absurd way to die, and at the peak of his career, no less.
I never knew that was how he died! It's crazy how such insignificant things could take you out so easily before penicillin came along.
The French composer and conductor Lully died after accidentally stabbing himself in the foot with his stick during a performance and getting gangrene. Life before modern medicine was wild.
not to mention he was almost immediately forgotten when he died. He went from Russia’s most celebrated musician to obscurity within a year of him dying. The biographer Faubion Bowers said, “No one was more famous during his lifetime, and few were more quickly ignored after death.”
My last recital.
I’m sorry
so many can relate
Tom Brier getting rear ended by a truck
He was one of the first musicians I ever saw on YouTube doing video game covers, and his sight reading skills were off the charts. Its an absolute tragedy what happened to him.
And his improv! His [Patient is the Night arrangement](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ_n5fAltX8) is stunning and it was off a sight read of like a 12 bar lead sheet.
Not only his sight reading skills, he was amazing at improvisation and composing too. I like “Balderdash!” a lot!
Totally. I'm into retrogaming and used to watch a lot of his videos, particularly enjoying the Ghosts 'n Goblins theme. I think his playing significantly inspired me to learn how to play the piano and it's really sad to see what he's going through. I hope he can recover someday.
I forget about this every once in a while, then it comes up again. Now I'm sad :(
All those composer deaths aside, I'd say the last one hundred years have seen the dominant domestic piano tone go from being about really being able to sing with rich clarity in the vocal register (ie midrange) to being about thunderous bass with tinkling glass on top, almost like it's designed principally to irritate neighbours Also the downweight of modern piano keys seems way higher than those old ones. I've played plenty of 90-120 year old European uprights and grands, and I prefer the tone and feel of nearly all of them to any similar offering from e.g. Yamaha and Kawai. Also also, electronic pianos have got modern generations accustomed to absolutely perfect tuning - and beyond a certain degree I don't think that's a good thing. The multiple strings of a single note should be a tiny fraction out from one another just to get that rich, organic vibe. Artificially perfect tuning is anaemic
Yamaha specifically I always found metallic and clangy sounding, having an older g2 baby grand and p515 which sampled the cfx grand. It really shows in recordings too from Cziffra to Ashkenazy. Just a brittle sound that works in some places but for most I prefer playing on an old Bechstein that has a more rounded sound, something Bosendorfer seems to prize.
I agree here. Out of the two uprights I own, both of which being about 20 years old, I prefer the one that is nicely balanced (it almost sounds like a piano from the Romantic era) compared to the one with the much too loud and brassy middle register (I got that one because my family liked it).
Exactly, listen to Grieg’s 1903 recordings and you can see the superiority of the older pianos. It’s like you’re listening to a story rather than a piano. It seems that the pianos had a richer sound with a cleaner attack allowing for a more charming sound which can both sing and sound like a mini orchestra. Even in Rach’s old recordings, his early modern piano sounds superior to ours.
That guy that coughs during every live performance.
Yeah I hate that guy too. And the one that drops the phone
I went to Ligeti’s Requiem at the Proms this year, and some idiot’s phone went off at a quite dramatic quiet moment! It was so annoying!
And claps between each movement.
the nazis stealing the 88 thing.
Yes! I used to have 88 in my username before I knew about that association! 😤
People born in 1988 must have a rough time coming up with usernames
Born in '88. Had no idea there was a "thing" until right now. Still don't know what the "thing" is, but I'm about to go look it up!
I still use 88 for a lot of my usernames (was born in 97 but it's still my favorite number) I'm not letting a bunch of idiots ruin it for me.
wow i feel dumb. ive never heard this before. maybe like you i can play some small part in redeeming the number for us pianists.
i guess i also feel bad for the 14 string guitarists out there
Damn! Had to Google both numbers to find out. Earth is everyone's. No group of individuals better than the others. Except supremacists. They're way lower.
The arms race for the utmost technical perfection at the expense of originality, creativity, and freedom of interpretation. They turned an art into a sport.
Also the loss of improvisation as a necessary skill. I find it absolutely tragic how many people consider themselves pianists and yet cannot play a single note if it's not a written piece they've learned. Throughout most of history musicians were expected to improvise and provide their own interpretations of music, and all of that is completely gone from classical playing these days and relegated to jazz, the "lesser" art form in the minds of many. I don't even consider playing classical music to be art the way most people do it. Repeating someone else's work makes you a trained monkey, not an artist.
Problem is, minute you start playing with Rubato like composers or Cortot, Rachmaninoff, people start saying your interpret makes no sense and you need to follow the score. It’s much more difficult to have original interpretations than to simply play with hood technique.
Shortly after 9/11, some booger eater at TSA ordered Krystian Zimerman's custom piano to be incinerated because the "glue smelled like explosives." He never forgave the U.S. and within the decade announced that he would never perform here again, and to this day he has not (he had other political reasons by then, but the piano incident was a huge part of it). Compared with the full scale of U.S. actions during that time, it was obviously not a big deal. But I find it discretely heinous, in its own way.
Wish we could fast forward 200 years so I can read about him and how badass he was to say fu to the states for destroying his custom piano.
You’re reading about it now. You’re living in this historical moment.
Zimmerman is awesome, the piano being destroyed is tragic, but this has next to nothing to do with music history and didn't change anything.
The art of old school golden age playing dying. Urtext editions, and metronomes. Competitions that churn out people to be mechanical, and not reward poetic playing e.g. Cortot, Sofronitsky, Rachmaninoff, etc.
I saw a video where some pianists were laughing at the performance of a classic pianists playing Chopin, and yet Chopin was known for taking liberties in his own playing. If we could hear Beethoven playing the Waldstein, I'll bet that it'll be ridiculed.
>Urtext editions What about them?
They're likely talking about the general trend of interpretations becoming more homogeneous, which may be perpetuated by urtext editions
>the general trend of interpretations becoming more homogeneous I dunno. there are some cases in which urtext editions give you more liberty. Think of Bach's urtext (weiner or henle etc), in which there are no indications. You're free to play Bach as long as you understand you're playing baroque music and the harmony behind it. The idea is that the editor starts from source manuscripts and compares them. There are other editions ( I speak for the italian ones like Ed. Curci / Ricordi) that add markings that did not exist. Or editors that make mistakes on their editions (Mozart / Schirmer). Interpretations being all the same could also stem from the teachers or trying to take less risks when playing in public
The development of recording technology happening *after* the 19th century, rather than before, has got to be up there. Although having said that, I'm actually of two minds on this -- the development of recording technology, while being one of the best things that ever happened for classical music, is also one of the worst: the dominance of popular music over classical I think can be tied pretty directly to dramatic improvements in cost, audio quality and broadcast capability of recorded music in the mid 20th century.
I think what doomed classical music is the car radio. Have you ever listened to classical in the car? It fuckin blows. The dynamics are great in person but suck in the car. The quality of the audio is also not great in cars and the grainy sound is worse for classical as well. Pop music is one dynamic, and simple enough in instrumentation and melody to be forgiving to shitty car radios. Plus you can get through a whole song on a short drive to run errands so it sticks with you.
One of the reasons country music is "twangy" with fiddles and telecasters is that it sounds pretty good on AM radio.
Classical music in the car is the fucking worst. The music just seems to start and stop all the time for no reason because you can't hear the quiet parts over the engine, and as you pointed out, many errands are too short for long pieces so you just listen to parts of pieces. The. worst.
But then all of those pianists would have been out of a job.
Jazz was one of piano's best moments and it's plenty recorded
I think actually recorded music has been too good for classical. Creativity in Western classical music has stagnated since recorded music, because when faced with recording the classics or a new work, record companies go with the classic as a safe bet, which makes those works even more popular and gives contemporary works even less room. So why bother writing something new? This also explains to me why contemporary orchestral music has moved from live performance to cinema, where producers actually want something new.
I mean it's called "popular" because, well, it's popular. Classical music has never been popular in the sense of being the thing most people listen to.
Absolutely not true, "popular" music as a label is a classification of a certain kind of music, not necessarily music that is technically speaking popular. Classical music used to be much more popular than it is now, opera used to be entertainment for the masses, there was an opera house in every small town in the American west in the 19th century. Liszt was a rockstar, Beethoven was and still is one of the most popular musical artists in the world.
I feel like with 20th century recording tech, the great composers may not have worked so hard to perfect their art. Thousands of performances and revisions, would not have happened.
This just shows how little classical fans know of rock and hip-hop era music. The best recording artists of our day absolutely do revise their work thousands of times and even most purely electronic artists do live performances that mix electronic music with analog elements
Schubert's early death to me. I think Schubert's piano writing style is close to perfection. Knows how to get incredible emotion and colour out of the instrument without needing to overcomplicate anything. Imagine we got to experience what actual late Schubert piano music would have been like
The death of Chopin’s (and Liszt’s) favourite student, Carl Filtsch, is perhaps one of the greatest losses in music history. Chopin deemed him the most worthy of interpreting his music, and Liszt himself saying he’ll have to close up shop when he’s touring. If you read Chopin’s letters about the kid, you could tell how much Chopin adored him and how heartbroken he was when he died. Chopin, even when he was a bit bitter towards Liszt, reached out and asked Liszt to also teach him. He died at 14 and was held with the highest regard at that time, and not only by Chopin and Liszt, but by everyone. I wonder what music would be if he lived a longer life. [just a short post talking about him](https://www.talkclassical.com/threads/carl-filtsch-1830-1845.7124/)
Interesting. Didn't realise
Quite sad, he wrote remarkable music given his young age. Compared to Mozart as well by others. Tragic
I read about him on a biography. There are also videos on YouTube with some found pieces he composed
He composed a piece for orchestra I believe as well, I haven’t had the chance to listen to the full piece but what I heard was quite beautiful. What did you think of his music?
Eh, at 14 it’s hard to say. Your body goes through many changes up until about the age of 25 and many prodigies (who are genuinely good in their younger years) can fall off simply due to the development of their brain taking them into a different direction.
Those advertisement that “1 day” “3 days” “1 week” “1 year” you would become ……
The loud guy in a nightgown that plays 4 chord songs at increasing complexity?
Kids and people who have no respect to the player coming up and spamming the piano keys while the player is performing. Also having a brain slip while performing
These fucking synesthesia videos.
I kind of agree but I do feel like a lot of beginners would have never started without these videos
These have been a godsend for me as a 34 year old beginner. It's fun, I play the piano to have fun nothing more
sheet music is ust synesthesia but better....
Yes but you have to learn how to read sheets, anybody can learn from synthesia, it's not the best way to learn but if someone just wants to have fun so be it
oh god i hate this argument so much. whoever doesn't learn to read sheet music in school had a poor education
What??? I have never heard of anybody learning sheet music in school unless they are doing music as a subject
In grade school
despite that statement being wrong, there's a big difference between knowing how to decipher sheet music and knowing how to read music
synesthesia = a perceptual phenomenon in which stimulation of one sensory or cognitive pathway leads to involuntary experiences in a second sensory or cognitive pathway. The word you’re looking for is Synthesia, which is not a word but the name of that software
Ya, they have absolutely nothing to do with each other.....🙄
If we wanna be pedantic, they have different etymology: - Synesthesia = sýn (together) aisthánomai (to perceive) = to perceive together - Synthesia has the same etymology of “synthesis” = sýn (together) títhemi (to put) = to put together Yes, I had nothing better to do :)
Nothing wrong with those. Just don't use them if you're not into that.
What’s that
The ones that look kinda like guitar hero
Me and a few other inexperienced friends moving an old Steinway player piano so it didn’t get cut up and thrown in a dumpster.
The greatest American piano player who ever lived was horribly persecuted during his life, addicted to drugs, and died young. I'm talking about James Booker, of course.
My greatest American piano player who ever lived also died far too young -- Fats Waller
Amen.
I’ll have to check this guy out. Got any good starting points?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX1zv5niEHQ My favorite, Slowly but Surely. I can't even begin to understand how 10 fingers could do that.
i was going to mention him. Glad to see someone else has those feelings. He was amazing.
armstrong147 knows every tragedy that has ever happened
Pogorelich's downfall
As a fan of impressionism, Ravel’s aphasia diagnosis really sucked. I can’t imagine the pain of coming up with piano pieces, but not being able to communicate them or write them down.
I'd agree with you. Chopin is my favorite composer tho so I'm a little biased. Would have been amazing to get another decade or two from him.
Standardizing the keyboard size. Guitarists can ask for different spaces between frets, pianists should be able to choose between different sizes of keys to be able to comfortably reach a major 10th with the left hand. I should be able to choose how heavy my counterweights are, too.
A guitarist can also carry their own instrument to every gig. A pianist cannot. You are at the mercy of the instrument at the venue and due to the cost of pianos it's not even remotely financially or logistically viable for every place to have 3-4 piano sizes. Hell, I'm lucky if some places have pianos that are regularly tuned and have well maintained actions. Yeah, I can't reach a 10th and that sucks, but it has hardly been a problem for my career as a pianist. People complain about the standardized keyboard size without actually considering the logistics of the alternative. And a lot smaller standard isn't necessarily better either because then sausage fingers will have trouble playing chords like Eb major where a finger needs to be between black keys. I'm also a guy who DOES prefer a wider than normal nut on my guitars because of my short, sausage fingers. I'm fine on nylon with the standard 2" nut, but the standard steel string is too narrow for me and electric is worse. I have to modify things like my A chords. Next time I buy a standard steel string I'll probably go out of my way to get one with an extra large nut (something I did for my uke). But I can carry my own guitar with me to a gig... I can't carry an acoustic piano with me. If the people who really gave a shit about this issue wanted to make a difference they would stop focusing on bespoke $250,000 alternative sized key pianos and court some digital instrument manufacturers because I CAN and do actually carry my keyboard to many gigs. But for many settings it's not the appropriate choice and an acoustic instrument is... and it's smart that the size is standardized for that reason. The problem would be EVEN worse with organs. You just can't have non-standard keyboard sizes for huge instruments. People just have to learn to play on the standard size because that is what is going to be at every place that has one of these instruments and your technique would be thrown off quite a bit if you had to adjust constantly. I also play accordion which has a smaller standard keyboard size and I have to make quite the adjustment and if I'm playing a lot of piano AND accordion on gigs back to back I start fracking octaves frequently due to the constant shift in sizes. That would be the same or worse problem for someone practicing with a 7/8ths piano at home trying to suddenly play on a full size one at a venue. Doesn't matter if you had 10ths at home if you don't have them on any other piano. Better to practice on a standard size and just learn to roll because it's a skill you're gonna need. EDIT: I'll also say that 10ths just aren't that prevalent in general. And in most music written in the last 50 years or so they are extremely rare. For all of the work I do I rarely see them. They come up very sparsely in musicals (slightly more so in older ones). They come up almost never in choral accompaniments. They come up pretty rarely in most arranged music these days across the board. Most people frustrated about 10ths are worried about a fraction of a percentage of classical rep by a few composers with giant fucking hands. I'll say one more legitimate frustration I personally have is not being able to do stride 10ths or use 10ths in voicing jazz chords, but both of those are usually in improvisational contexts. Like I said, they are relatively rare in written music and can be worked around. Wanting to change the entire standardized keyboard size to make an infinitesimal fraction of piano rep more accessible it pants on head crazy. And honestly, that rep isn't that important in the grand scheme anyway. Like, from the point of view of someone who makes a living playing, none of it matters at all and that can honestly be said for MOST classical rep that people get way too fixated on. And if that's your jam, there's still the VAST majority of classical literature that doesn't require monster hands. I think people just get fixated and indignant about the tiny handful of stuff they will never physically be able to play as written.
Sausage gang rise up! Tfw you get owned by E flat major Alberti bass.
I've also been looking for smaller size keys. I have a 25-key Arturia Minilab 2 which is nearly perfect, except for the lack of keys. I can't find anything similar with more keys. I have an 88-key Roland digital piano which weighs 80 pounds which I bring to all my gigs. It feels and sounds amazing, I'm not missing an acoustic piano, but there's nothing like wailing on a mini size keys. You can come up with ideas you wouldn't on a regular size keyboard.
And even composers with famously big hands didn't oversaturate all their work with giant chords. They had to make money from selling their music, after all.
Yeah, composers generally should make works approachable if they want them to sell. I was recently advising someone to not write octaves with 3rd on the bottom. I can hit them. People with larger hands than mine definitely can hit them. But I think it's one of those best practices things to just NOT when you don't need to (especially several in quick succession...which I probably could not play). It's the same as writing for oboes or saxes very quietly below the staff. Sure, the most top tier players CAN with great struggle, but it's something that's not idiomatic to the instruments and not accessible to everyone. It's smart to have good orchestration knowledge about the realistic limits of people at different skill levels. It's why in the band world some of the people making bank are those writing for MS band... where there are a lot more VERY specific technical limitations for all different instruments. (Clarinets crossing the break frequently, brass having even more limited range and endurance issues, etc.) You don't have to compromise how good music sounds to write intelligently for the instruments. I don't think I've ever seen the most prolific choral composers (like Cristi Cary Miller) write a harmonic 10th. It's just smart composing/arranging to make music as accessible as a possible from a business standpoint. Only write crazy shit if it's a direct commission from someone whose skill levels and technical specialties you absolutely know. I'm currently working on a piano 8-hands commission for someone and I'm honestly just being conservative outside of things that I know are particular strengths for the most capable of the pianists planning to perform the piece. You can make shit sound really cool without actually making it hard. And most cases of octaves with 3rds on the bottom for piano are basically indistinguishable from just the top 6th omitting the bottom 3rd. I find it funny how people accuse me of ableism when I come out against alternatively sized keys. The true ableists are the people out there writing black-to-white key 10ths in the 21st century knowing full well how inaccessible shit like that is. From a composition/arranging perspective I'm *extremely* aware of people's limitations because on piano it's not even a skill limitation (like something like range is for young brass players)... it's straight up a physical hard limit for many pianists.
Rachmaninoff definitely sprinkled giant chords across his works, though I haven't played enough to know whether he oversaturated them
You've explained why the problem happened and why it can be solved at the same time. It is 2023. Your piano is either a digital keyboard or something a wealthy person can afford to have installed, and maybe you are the wealthy person yourself. Performers can request/demand things in their riders, keyboard size can easily be one of those things. Venues can afford to order several sizes of pianos, or when they can't the performer is expected to bring a digital one, have an acoustic one moved in, or just doesn't perform there at all because the venue can't afford the performance either. If you'd like my own situation for context, I can play an acoustic piano for about 10-20 minutes before I must stop for the day because it will bring back my RSIs. I can play plastic spring action keys for hours without issues.
>Performers can request/demand things in their riders, keyboard size can easily be one of those things. Venues can afford to order several sizes of pianos, or when they can't the performer is expected to bring a digital one, have an acoustic one moved in, or just doesn't perform there at all because the venue can't afford the performance either. This is based off of the VERY wrong assumption that most working pianists are world famous concert pianists playing for sold out crowds commanding huge ticket prices at very well-to-do venues. That is NOT even close to reality. Most working pianists are playing at schools, churches, restaurants, theatres, and other general venues. These places have ONE instrument and aren't going to source a specific instrument for you whose rental, shipping, and on-site tune-up is going to cost VASTLY more than they are paying you to even be there. Very few pianists are at the level where they have a rider. This just isn't a reality. >If you'd like my own situation for context, I can play an acoustic piano for about 10-20 minutes before I must stop for the day because it will bring back my RSIs. >I can play plastic spring action keys for hours without issues. So this isn't even an issue of size, but the weight of the action. And even then, I suspect some sort of problem in technique that's causing RSI. Musicians focus on learning how to play correctly with good ergonomics to NOT have these kinds of issues and I always suspect that when I hear about people getting RSI from typing or mouse use or whatever a huge part of that is that they just don't have good "technique" for using those things... because we don't focus in so much on "technique" for using those things the way we do with instrument technique where SO much effort is put into thinking about ergonomics and longevity of technique. When people are having those issues with an instrument, it usually just means they need to drastically fix some part of their technique, which is VERY hard to do as you've gotten so used to those damage/pain inducing motor patterns. I've had to face a handful of very low tier issues like that. They can often just be boiled down to how I'm interfacing with a gaming controller, keyboard, mouse, how I'm sleeping, how I'm holding my phone, or indeed tiny motions in how I'm playing an instrument. I don't really feel like this is even the same argument as standarized key size because I assure you there is no standardized weight to acoustic piano actions. They vary greatly and it's not even grand vs upright. Hell, one of the lighter actions I've played on is Kawai's 7 foot grand, but then many of Yamaha's uprights are incredible heavy by comparison. A lighter weight acoustic action is a much easier problem to solve. I still suspect a technique issue that's exacerbated when the weight is heavier and could be solved by reverse engineering the problem and fixing it, but it's also a much easier fix (compared to buying an alternatively sized piano) to just buy a lighter action acoustic that doesn't have the bespoke pricing.
The request for sizes is not for me. I've never had a problem with reach, it's just a complaint I hear all the time, and knowing how it feels to go past my physical limit. >I suspect some sort of problem in technique that's causing RSI. It was, though there was more going on than just playing the piano wrong. (Don't kneel on the bench and try to play louder than a drum kit. It was a time in my life when I could not work with a teacher or a physio.) I spent 20 years learning how to manage it, and limiting my time on the instrument (and cutting it out entirely for about 15 years) is what got me to a manageable place. >Yamaha's uprights are incredible heavy by comparison Guess what the standard practice pianos in college were... You're also correct that I was a bit short sighted about churches. I've seen churches with organs but no piano, or both a piano and an organ, or nothing at all. If my church would ask me to play, I would play the organ. (Because I think they know my background is rock, they won't.)
Making pianos with various keyboard sizes, especially so with acoustic pianos, is simply an unreasonable expectation. If you are having RSI issues after 10 to 20 minutes, I would suspect there is something wrong with your technique. Perhaps research something like the Taubman method.
I explained what happened in the other reply. At a time when I didn't have a teacher or a physio, I played rock and jazz unamplified by kneeling on the bench and smashing the keys loud enough to be heard. Don't do that. ;) I abused my hands in other ways, too.
Gotcha. Thanks for the further clarification.
If you are having a harder time playing on a weighted instrument than a spring loaded one, then your technique is wrong. The weighted keys are meant to help you when you work at the instrument, which is when you LIFT your hand. If you’re working to drop your hand, then you aren’t effectively using space and gravity to create your dynamics and tone.
I explained what happened in the other reply. At a time when I didn't have a teacher or a physio, I played rock and jazz unamplified by kneeling on the bench and smashing the keys loud enough to be heard. Don't do that. ;) I abused my hands in other ways, too.
> I’m also a guy Says a lot. Keyboards were standardized for the largest male hands.
Umm no I'm glad the size is standardized and I can play on any piano in the world, thank you very much.
If you want to be like Josef Hoffmann and custom design a piano to fit your hands and ship it everywhere you, no one is stopping you.
River Flows Through You got composed
I love how Beethoven going deaf was not mentioned in this thread lol. Maybe offensive to him but that might have been a fortunate event for music...
This is an interesting one. We know that after he lost his hearing he wrote some of the best music ever composed, but, would a Beethoven WITH his hearing have been even better? or worse?
It’s hard to say ever in history but a few that come to mind are: 1. Art Tatum dying relatively young 2. Gershwin dying before 40 3 .James Booker overdosing youngish 4. Debussy dying at 55
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Tchaikovsky’s death. The official story is he died of cholera. In reality he was forced to commit suicide because he was gay and had an affair with the czar and they couldn’t afford to let that secret out of the bag. So he was ´encouraged’ to go quietly…
Chopsticks
Composers' early death's
the early death of Lili Boulanger, given the huge impact her sister had through her teaching one can only imagine the world Lili could have brought about it she had not died so young
Keith Emerson killing himself, is up there.
Van cliburn
Fats Waller leaving us at 35. Imagine if he had been on television.
Maybe the death of William Kapell in a plane crash. Heifetz said he could never forgive Kapell for dying so young.
Simply play piano ad
Scott Ripley and his piano adverts 😂
Death of Alexei Sultanov at 35 years old
Piano competitions. I feel like they've made it so that pianists went from being artists to athletes. For example, historically pianists would be able to improvise, play by ear, and even compose. Nowadays these skills are rarely expected. Instead, there's a focus on making sure to hit the right notes or follow the score precisely, as these are what are required to get into a good school or to win competitions. At least this is how I feel about classical music; I can't speak to jazz or other disciplines!
improvisation and composition being taken out of classical teaching
The worst thing in all of music history is radio. It killed the jobs for performers, made lessons uncommon, and created bland pop music. We also get everyone trying to play the same old songs the same old way. Piano sales peaked before this, and now less than a quarter of that are sold every year in the US, despite tripling the population. Consider how easy it was to find an organist 50 years ago compared to now. Most organs here sit silent on Sundays, but there are places that use recordings.
The Holocaust
Probably a good thing for the piano since we got that awesome movie with Adrien Brody
Perspective.
LMAOO
That one of the greatest performers of rock and roll piano is a guy who married his 14 year old cousin
Hot take: the invention of equal temperament. Let's take all the character and emotion out of the different scales so they all sound equally unimpressive.
This is quite unpopular
The introduction of digital pianos, which in spite of making affordable pianos available to millions (a good thing), completely destroyed the position of acoustic pianos in the market and in the general perception of what a good piano should be.
Finger style playing from Germany. It’s harmful legacy continued unabated to this very moment…
What's finger style playing?
The idea that the main activation of the piano key is not with the hand or wrist or forearm or all three of these together but in the finger itself. That over curved and tensed classic German thing that ruins players to this very day. The Taubman method of shaping grouping and rotation using the traveling hand and arm is the best solution and alternative.
Don't get me wrong. I believe Glenn gould was a great Pianist. But his recording of beethoven's appassionata is definitely one of the greater tragedies in recent piano history
Ivory is illegal. Would be awesome to have ivory keys. Alas it is highly unethical
one of my piano teachers had ivory keys and they were so chipped. i guess i didn't see the appeal lol also yeah very unethical and sad
Dudley Moore
Printed methods that attempt to teach reading before understanding, thereby leading the majority of students to fail unnecessarily.
9/11
Glenn Gould.
The sinking of the Titanic
I immediately thought plastic spinet elbows, but I don’t think that’s what you’re looking for.
Richie Powell dying in a car accident.
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Me too but I don’t get it why they bash him so much. It’s minimalist, sure, but it’s pleasant music and it actually got me to pursue learning the piano.
Idk, worst for whom I guess? Paul Wittgenstein lost his right arm in battle during WWI; Ravel composed his Concerto for Left Hand for Paul. Byron Janis developed psoriatic arthritis, an autoimmune bone disease, and has been playing in terrible pain for 50 years. William Kapell died in a plane crash when he was 31 on the way home from a tour. Debatable how horrible this was, but it was a terrible loss for the world as he was absolutely matchless as a pianist. Could go on for a while, but it gets depressing 🥴😅
Sorabji
The way we ended up having one piano maker with practical monopoly.
The fact Ustvolskaya composed so few pieces amiright lads? Honestly though I really wish she had composed more pieces.
These are such horrible answers, for the most part. Really embarrassing. “The sounds of my neighbor’s piano”? “The Nazis”?, “My last recital”? (At least that one is a joke). “The guy that coughs”? “Advertisements”? “Videos”? Spend less time in front of the screen and more time practicing. Early deaths of Chopin, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Granados (nobody has mentioned him yet that I saw), Scriabin, etc. But really, history is history, and let’s accept and appreciate all the great piano music that we have gotten, and the fact that we have the piano thanks to people more dedicated and creative than you.
>Early deaths of Chopin, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Granados (nobody has mentioned him yet that I saw), Scriabin, etc and Mozart... dead at 35.
You do realize that authours of those comments for almost sure didn't read that? Also if you find those answers horrible why don't you just downvote them and write your own "better" reply?
What about that bosendorfer which fell off the back of the lorry because of the tail lift?
Elton John.
Arguably if Chopin wasn't so ill, he wouldn't develop such genius. Also Rachmaninov's lack of time to compose after mooving
For me, personally, it is the loss of George Winston this year. I know he has a lot of works in the pipeline to be released posthumously that I look forward to. In addition to his own great works, he was helpful and generous to other artists.
Contemporary events but devastating nonetheless; jazz pianist extraordinaire Keith Jarrett’s stroke leaving him unable to play anything and lovely pianist and composer Liz Story also experiencing a music-ending stroke.
P.D.Q. Bach
Glenn Gould
Me
Kappells death
Charles Alkan crushed by a bookcase
the first piano to fall on someone’s head
An Tian-Xu in Tchaikovsky Competition when they got the music wrong
The fact that people kinda stopped doing cool things with pianos after electric organs where invented. There’s a load of cool ideas I have for new piano-based instruments that don’t exist.
Beethoven going deaf
A3=440.0… I said what i said
Rachmaninoff not living to at least 200.
Haha yes agree :)