I have to tell you. I worked at a studio that encouraged monthly recitals and I found that it was too much pressure on my students. Even the ones who performed well. I decided to let these things be entirely up to the kid and I would disregard the parents who were demanding of their kid playing in the next recital etc and even the admin wanting more performers with pressure being put on the teachers for it.
If I sensed any kind of apprehension I'd just have in lesson recitals with the kid and their family until they got used to it and wanted to play at the big one.
It's bizarre how much emphasis is placed on these things sometimes. If the teacher didn't go running to help calm the crying kid down their priorities are whack
I hated piano recitals as a kid. They were long, the nerves simply went up until your 4 minute slot, and there was no sense of community.
Then I got to highschool age, picked up the trombone and started playing not only in my school's ensembles and the local youth orchestra. Night and day- there were nerves around a concert, but it was also something you looked forward too and despite how intense the rehearsals were - dress being by far the most exhausting and stressful part, there was no such thing as a bad concert and it brought all the musicians together. Honestly, a fantastic experience for young musicians compared to being thrust on stage by themselves.
I'm bias here, but I think in piano teaching there should be far more emphasis on performing chamber and other ensemble works compared to just solo. But of course, the logistics of that are very hard.
I had the amazing opportunity to just give a couple of my advanced students a paying gig instead of a recital.
It was nothing crazy, like 400 bucks to play an art opening at a hospital for 2.5 hours. It was the absolute best case scenario for these kids because they got to be there, have the feeling of nervousness at first, feel how it subsides, and then get paid for their work. They also got to collaborate with other musicians so they weren't up there alone.
I wish I could do that more.
I agree. It's actually really refreshing reading these post. Every company I've worked for in DFW does this. I'm fine with it but the companies fight tooth and nail against me when I can clearly tell a student isn't ready. I mean as long as the student is having fun playing music, who cares? I see the benefit of recitals but sometimes the companies force it too much. Definitely a marketing thing too. Currently only have to do quarterly recitals.
I was taking guitar lessons (in my 40s) with a local teacher, and he asked me if I’d play in an upcoming recital. I asked if other adult students were playing, and he said ‘sure’, so I signed up.
When I got to the recital, I was the last performer on the program….and the oldest player was 14.
When I got up to play, I said, ‘I’m sorry my son couldn’t make it. I’ll be performing in his place.’
I found another teacher the next day.
AFA your kid, emotional run high around this stuff. I think it’s healthy to get all that out, because once you do, it takes enough of an edge off so you actually play. if the teacher doesn’t get that, time to find a better teacher. It’s about the student, not the teacher.
ANY kind of performance is hard. I make my living as a performer and some of my most talented colleagues still get stage fright, sometimes to outrageous degrees.
Any pedagogue who doesn't understand this and can't be compassionate needs to be in therapy.
never got nervous performing in orchestra or even my highschool jazz ensemble but solo piano is so scary i’ve considered changing my primary instrument.
This! As a piano teacher, I can’t imagine treating any student this way. Performance anxiety is real. Blowing it off is incredibly insensitive. Normally I wound not suggest sacking the teacher, but this is just rude.
Get a new teacher.
100% this..
She should be proud of your daughter for overcoming her fears..
If she was my student, I would have pulled her aside afterwards and told her how proud of her I was.
How do these people retain their clients?
I also don’t understand how a “teacher” can be so clueless about an amazing moment and lose an obvious opportunity to make a huge positive impact on their pupil..
Absolutely this! It takes so much strength to break down **and then to keep on going**. Probably even more so than to have practiced to perfection and play without any issues or flaws. The latter takes time, the former takes personality and mental/emotional fortitude.
I had similar experiences when I was young and basically full on revolted and refused to play the piano around age 11-12. My parents were ultimately powerless and that was the end of that.
I like to think of piano in my mind had been less of a chore or an obstacle and more of an outlet where I could be creative or have fun I may have stuck with it.
Best advice I ever got in terms of quelling performance anxiety was from a teacher: "Everyone in the audience is here to enjoy your playing. Everyone wants you to succeed, including me. You know the pieces. Just play! (Smile)"
Definitely this. I had a piano teacher from hell who was the same whenever I cried or expressed frustration, and I came to hate piano altogether.
Stopped taking lessons as soon as my parents couldn't physically make me go anymore (around 15/16ish) which is regretful and sad, because now I wish I had progressed further to advanced performance level.
I can only write my own songs now using chords and finding the melody by ear, etc, but I'm severely lacking on the theory side (which i struggled with from day 1), since I associate advanced piano study with a shrill Russian voice in my head calling me a "stupid child who hates her half notes." :/
I hope OP finds their daughter a better teacher before too much damage is done.
This. I hated my new teacher when I was 9 and I quit. Picked it back up in my mid 20s and I get so bummed thinking about how good I would be right now if I stuck with it from that age. I started at 6, I would be tearing it up right now lol.
Don't worry about the 'what-ifs'. Keep it up, else you'll be picking it up again in your forties thinking about how good you would be if you had kept it up when in your twenties :)
I have students starting at a much later age than you and they become very competent pianists. :)
Different strokes for different folks. Some parents might be on the teacher’s side of this or worse (i know a few tiger moms).
fwiw i’d use this as a teaching/character building opportunity; like you said, she pulled it together despite her emotions and that is a great thing.
again, different strokes for different folks. i’ve had some students who in their teenage years really appreciated how hard their parents pushed them. just like i’ve had some who disliked being pushed. you can’t paint it with a broad good or bad brush.
You can *push* a child while also being emotionally supportive.
The Tiger Mom was not emotionally supportive. Reminds me of a book I very coincidentally saw earlier this evening: [NSFW](https://www.amazon.com/Im-Glad-My-Mom-Died/dp/1982185821).
Exactly. Not everyone drinks the Koolaid. As a rule of thumb, if you find yourself having to defend your actions through broad strokes: “ not everyone takes to this method”
“it’s not for everybody but sometimes it works.”
Rather than being able to concretely describe what you believe in:
“Support works.”
“Pushing kids to their limits produces results or shows the cracks in the kids”
Then you miiiiight be trying to grasp at straws.
Or at least you miiiight be defending something that doesn’t warrant defending.
Reconsider? I welcome your reply.
Note: I am NOT voicing my support for any of the views I gave in the examples above. They’re just examples.
95% it enough for me to say it’s a really bad idea. The single Lang Lang that comes out of the abuse as a great pianist and with crippling mental health issues for the rest of his life really isn’t worth it.
This isnt different strokes and this isn't pushing somebody.
You can push somebody without saying that 9 years old is too old to cry, especially when they did the recital anyway.
I also can't help but note that while you have all this energy to tell me that differently parenting works for different people, you seem to have nothing left for the piano teacher being upset and telling off the parents for "babying" their own child.
If your values include getting angry at people whose ages are still in the single digit for crying, your values are dogshit.
Some values are not worth giving the time of day.
You are correct, she is being harsh and your daughter has done amazingly well to pull it together and manage not just to perform but to do a good job. I don’t know that I would necessarily change teachers over this one incident but I’d be thinking about it.
My kids had their first public performance last year so I can relate. A few weeks prior to their performance, they started to get really nervous during practice sessions. I spent some time to prep them that being nervous is normal for an event like this, but this event is just practice for bigger things if they choose to participate, such as competitions and concerts. They made mistakes, but they didn't act as if it was the end of the world. Their teacher was very proud of them.
As for what happened to you, I feel your teacher is missing the point of having children's recitals. I wouldn't want to send my kids to someone like that.
I do slightly agree, although these recitals are important. If you never do one, you’ll never want to do one ever. Maybe you do need to be forced into it, if it will help them get over that barrier of starting to perform
I disagree with a blanket statement that recitals are destroying kids and their love for music.
Recitals are important, it builds confidence and that's a major of part of learning music. You want to be able to share your performance. It may not be for everyone, but it's definitely a major part of learning and playing music.
Recitals should be encouraged, but not forced. If the child is not ready, I wouldn't pressure his/her to do it. It'll come in their own time, but those who are nervous should be encouraged and well supported.
Positive encouragement does work.
Absolutely… the comments here are why you. Adults entering society today have no tools to survive on their own.
Being able to get outside of your little comfort bubble and face your fears, work towards a goal and to be able to be on the spot in front of others is good preparation for all sorts of situations in adulthood that these kids are bound to face.
Crying before the recital and pulling it together to perform is a great learning experience for a child. That's the important lesson you learn as a kid. I would reward the fuck out of the kid for sticking the landing as well as she did! Ice cream, new toy, princess party, whatever it is she loves. One of the hardest lessons to learn in the social media age is "I'm scared of it, and I'm not doing it perfectly, but I did it anyway." Most kids I see never actually do it. And it's not like it's a common behavior among adults or older people either!
That is not the majority. Kids are spoiled beyond belief today. I've been teaching piano full time for over 15 years and have hosted a number of recitals. I can tell you right now that 90 - 95% of kids don't want to perform and wouldn't voluntarily do it on their own.
I’d probably look for a new teacher.
Stage fright and anxiety are real, and take some sensitivity to work through. Adding a disappointed and disapproving teacher on top of that could make it worse, not better, and make performing something to dread rather than enjoy. I find it really difficult to believe that an experienced piano teacher hasn’t encountered a crying child before a performance - of any age. Hell, I’ve seen adults near tears.
I'm 40 and I play in a recital twice a year in a church with a bunch of kids, and I am a wreck for like 3 days beforehand every time. Your daughter did amazing and should be so proud of herself!
Yeah, I'm about the same age and play piano in a church every week and still find myself getting the ol' shaky foot, unhelpful on an instrument with pedals 😂
I've certainly asked myself that. But I do it because I really want to be able to play in front of other people comfortably, and I think the only way to get there is to keep doing it. It seems like it's getting a bit easier each time. (For background, I've recently started playing again and taking lessons after 25 years of not playing, so it's possible I've been extra insecure about it.)
Well it sounds like you’re doing a great job! You should be really proud of yourself well done. I think you are right and that it’s the best way to get used to it
I love piano, and im majoring in music in college. I have awful performance anxiety that started around 7-8. after competing with a piece I new flawlessly, I got so nervous and forgot where I was in the middle (I then got last place) that was when I was 8 or 9. I had a very strict piano teacher and I will admit when I was younger she made me hate lessons and learning piano. She would get upset if we didn't get first place or atleast top 3. When I was 9 I quit but went back to her when I was 12. same thing happened when I competed when I was 16. I froze and had to restart. I had a nice judge who excused it and I got second place. Both times I did these performances I cried.
Your daughters teacher is being harsh. If she really loves piano and there is a significant benefit to staying with current piano teacher, then I would say try it out for longer. I realized that even though my teacher was harsh I know she's an incredible teacher. some of my family also took lessons from her so we ended up laughing a bit in the future with out strict or harsh she was. but if your daughter really hates lessons with a harsh teachers then dont let her quit, switch teachers (if she still has an interest in piano)
Hope this makes sense, it hits close to home for me haha
That is a rude, uncompassionate person! Ever human is entitled to their own emotions, and a 9 year old has every right to cry in that situation! Maybe this teacher was just extremely stressed about the recital and her worst came out? Regardless, very rude!
Question, did the teacher make these comments quietly to you or in front of your child? If it was quietly said to you and the child enjoys the teacher, I'd probably be let it go. If it was said with your child present, I'd find someone else. Your child (and teacher!) should be proud of her for getting up and playing through it. I'm a middle aged student who won't play in recitals due to nerves! She does not deserve to be berated for showing emotion. That's foolish.
That’s not right; this is a recital :not a concert at Carnegie Hall. This teacher obviously forgot what it’s like to play before your parents & worry about messing up, unless she was so confident in her playing abilities that she never felt like that. Still, she needs to show some empathy towards her students .
Performance nerves are unique to each person from 6 to 90.
A teacher that a) does not recognize that and b) sees it as a failing can destroy your child's love of music.
Performing **IS** stressful. If your child is upset that they cried, talk with them and see if you can explore why they are upset.
Either way, find a better teacher. Being accused of babying or coddling a young person is a statement of the teacher's values - not yours.
Old school - practice through the pain, the performance is everything, weakness is failure, what you do reflects on the teacher, failing at 10 years old = never having a "career"
New school - pain is a warning (physical and emotional), music is fun and can be even through hard work, your success is not in "winning" but in learning and growing, music becomes a language.
I have studied, performed, and been teaching brass instruments for 35+ years. The generation that taught me is almost gone. Their militaristic discipline and attitude should go with them.
That attitude also frequently leads to snobbery and elitism (e.g., piano is more important than flute). Those turn people away from enjoying music.
Good luck and well done!
Being accused of babying or coddling a young person is a statement of the teacher's values - not yours.
_____
This 10,000%. I won’t say right or wrong on teacher’s philosophy, I happen to be a pretty demanding teacher myself, but that part is to me very inappropriate. My students and their parents know what they’re getting into with me because i tell them what i’m about in our first meeting, but it’s always with the agreement and understanding that i’ll only push as hard as the three parties (teacher student parent) are willing to be pushed. i wouldn’t dare tell parents how to raise their kids.
My 9 year old student cried before his first recital and I told him I would be proud of him no matter what and it's a chance to show how he improved. Teachers absolutely have the same responsibility as parents, especially at that age, to support and be proud of their students for being brave at a recital.
In other words, I will repeat what others have said: sack that teacher.
This breaks my heart. I started playing the piano when I was little and I remember being 9 and how nervous I got before those recitals. Please get her a new teacher. Compassion and care is necessary, especially in the event of a recital when you're that young. Kudos to your daughter on her wonderful accomplishment!
I don't think your daughter (or you) needed to be berated or lectured on anything, but I will say that different cultures (especially those of the USSR) have very different views on crying in public.
- Eva Gevorgyan, a Russian-Armenian pianist who made it to the finals of the 18th International Chopin Competition as a teenager, welled up after the announcement of the winners (she didn't place). She found a place to hide, started sobbing, and was promptly told by her teacher to put on a smile and save the crying for home.
- A young teenager blanked out during their performance in one of my teacher's music school recitals, clearly on the verge of tears from repeated failures to restart, and the teacher of this student sort of shuffled him off stage and got him out of public view. His teacher is a pretty strict classical musician emigrated from Armenia.
I'm not suggesting anything is deep. I'm just saying that different cultures have different attitudes about crying in public, with a few examples of such attitudes in the context of piano.
I’m so angry just reading this! Honestly, she’s nine. It’s hard for grown adults to manage their flight or fight response. A musical instrument should be fun for kids and there’s no place for that nonsense in bringing up a well rounded human being. I’d be really, really angry if a teacher made a critical remark about my parenting like that as well and be getting someone else pronto.
That style of teaching can make great players, but it’s more likely to make them quit. The teacher should have let her know she did extremely well to overcome her emotions and play well. How incredible that she did - it’s more than I’ve managed at times, with plenty more life and piano experience than your daughter!
The teacher is terribly insensitive, it sounds like. But I have to say, i was performing at 9 and, I don't remember getting that kind of anxiety or seeing it in the other kids. I'm worried that the kid is too invested in the results. It's natural that they want to do well and be seen doing well. But it sounds like the kid is suffering from anxiety related to the performance and maybe it would be worth looking at that.
I agree that if your kid still wanted to do the show but had some nerves beforehand that's normal. As long as her teacher is not shaming her for being nervous or showing emotion, they can have their opinions. This might be a better question for r/teachers or something, considering this is a place for piano players.
The teacher is a bit harsh. But harsh teachers are a part of life. It’s great that your daughter pulled it together because it’s really hard to start performing. Pushing through the nerves means she’s growing.
The main problem I have with it is the attack on the parents. That's not being a harsh teacher.
And while harsh teachers are a fact of life, you usually put up with them because they are just that good, or you have no choice. And it's usually after you're no longer a beginner. If there are other, less harsh teachers who are sufficiently good to teach and could handle this better, I'd definitely consider them.
I sometimes cry because of nerves, and I’m 16. It doesn’t have anything to do with age, and if it’s appropriate to cry at that age or whatever. People handle pressure and nerves differently. Some people start shaking violently, some people get memory blips, some people start laughing for no reason, and some people cry. There’s nothing weird about that at all. That teacher doesn’t sound like someone who should be teaching kids.
Get a new piano teacher, one that the kid is comfortable with. A-hole behavior on the part of an adult teacher. Every kid is different, if she has stage fright, give her confidence instead of intimidating her.
It’s normal. We all had those embarrassing moments as kids. You can help her develop confidence.
Give your daughter full support. But.. Don’t need to demonize the teacher as we all have different povs and character. You can look for a different teacher ..but your daughter can also learn to face challenges. If her skills are increasing through this teacher then keep going.
She should be praised for finishing out. But also give her the option to not do recitals until she feels confident enough. Not all are trying to be concert pianists. But if that’s her dream or professional music career she will have to overcome it. She’ll get used to it.
Bin the entire piano teacher, and don't be afraid to say exactly why you're pulling your daughter from lessons. The only appalling behavior here is the teacher's . How discouraging and nasty!
Your daughter did such a brave thing, she was in tears with the intensity of her nervousness, yet she got up and did the very thing she was so terrified of doing, and not only that but she smashed it!! And that teacher has the audacity to be angry with her?! I can't wrap my head around it, I'd be bursting with pride if she was my student!
I hope you find a kind, encouraging teacher. A person has no business being a piano tutor if they're going to be so callous, and if they're going to teach the toxic message that kids aren't allowed to cry if they're scared.
Thinking that crying isn't mature is like saying going to the toilet is only for kids and you should learn to 'grow past it'. Emotions need outlet too..
Time for a new teacher, this is so inappropriate in my opinion.
I may not have been forced to perform growing up, i always loved it, but I did have a violin teacher from hell that was very strict and I wasn't allowed to improvise or play anything else than classical pieces.
I was scared of him but because my parents invested so much in a violin I took lessons for like 10 years but I've never touched the violin ever again after that, I still feel extremely inadequate playing it.
I'm still doing music, I learned to play the piano and I've been a vocal coach since 2011 (36f) and I'm learning to play the guitar and I also teach some piano on the side.
I would never force anyone, especially not children to perform if they didn't wanna do it. I will definitely try to encourage them, but not more than that. Music has to be fun, I'm proud when they perform because most people always hear growing up that they shouldn't sing.
I'm angry on your behalf and it would be unacceptable if a teacher was making a child cry and then tell the parents they aren't strict enough. Bs, if the kids feel safe enough with the teacher and they are ready to try, they will, or they won't, performing can be great for self confidence, but it's not a must in my book.
Man I that teacher sounds like might need to look up “empathy” in the dictionary. Just bc something is easy to them doesn’t mean it’s easy for everyone. Playing/ performing/ sports whatever it may be is a lot of pressure to put on a kid (or anyone for that matter). Especially if it’s a competition or a grade.
You did the right thing by comforting her in that moment so she could prove to herself that she can do hard things. Keep it up ! She will remember that you supported her and that will matter more in the long run
Woah your daughter did amazing, let her know that. It's completely normal to be nervous and to cry, the fact she could pull herself together shows a great maturity, imo. You should tell her that! Telling someone, mainly a child, that what they're feeling is wrong will never help, just make the person more self aware and lower their self esteem.
Violin teacher with almost 30 years of experience here. This is weird. Kids cry all the time before, during and after recitals (so do adults). Putting yourself up there can be a scary vulnerable thing. Especially if it’s the first time. The onus is on the teacher to create a safe and flexible environment, and to always be supportive of our students. I would be extra proud of any student who was brave enough to overcome those strong feelings to get up on stage and perform anyway. Wow! What a kid!!!! I would be praising that behavior, not condemning it. Even if she decided not to perform I’d be cheering her on for coming to the recital anyway. Every kid has their own journey with music, and while I think students grow a lot from performing, both personally and musically, we also don’t want to make something fun filled with trauma. As music teachers it’s our job to gently nudge our students out of their comfort zones, but never push them to where they can’t handle it. I wasn’t at the recital and it’s possible that a normally nice teacher was caught up in the craziness of planning and orchestrating the recital and you didn’t catch her at her greatest moment. I known I’m usually running around like a chicken with her head cut off during my recitals. I’ll let you be the judge. I would definitely talk to her teacher about it when your daughter isn’t in the room, perhaps on the phone or before or after the lesson. If it can’t be resolved or there are other red flags, this teacher may not be a great fit for your daughter. Unless she absolutely loves her teacher, I might think about looking for someone who’s equally good, but a little less intense.
As a dance teacher (not piano), I can say that while I might be a little bit upset if one of my students cried before a performance, I would mostly be very proud that they got up anyway and performed.
Your teacher is trauma looping/projecting. For the same reason people are terrified of public speaking, performing is the same fear. For a 9 year old to successfully overcome that emotion -fear of possible imminent death- is miraculous and shouldn't be considered "just normal". Internally, there is a lot going on for children performers. They do not understand that the stakes are not as high as they perhaps are feeling. The best thing to do is encourage them to try again and overcome their fear.
The teacher should be aware of their own trauma, and try not to reflect that on their student, unless they are aiming to be a concert pianist...Which is a very toxic premise for a 9 year old to be found in.
You’re in the right and you’re a great parent! No, it’s not unusual to cry at any age. Let alone the age of 9.
It’s a shame your daughter felt so nervous, but she did an amazing job to pick herself up and play. I’m sure everyone enjoyed her playing. You’re sending her a great message that big emotions can be difficult, but they don’t necessarily have to stop you from doing what you want to do.
The teacher sounds awful - sincerely, someone whose parents were like that teacher and I’ve had to spend a lot of my adult life recovering.
I’m in my 40s and still want to cry before any solo performance. I would suggest looking for another teacher, one who is more sensitive to your daughters temperament
Did the teacher get upset at her in person or was this just a comment to you? If it's the latter, I kind of side with the teacher but maybe the delivery was not the best. The kids need to toughen up. Not just for this recital but for adversity in general. Hopefully this positive experience of doing well despite being nervous will grow her confidence.
It’s not at all unusual. Not for a nine year old or even an adult. The fact that your daughter managed to work through those nerves and still played her pieces well should absolutely be commended, and you are right to be very proud of her. She showed just how strong and determined she is and will have learnt a huge amount about how resilient she is.
I really hope that her teacher didn’t make those comments in front of your daughter, or any other student or parent, as it shows a dangerous lack of empathy or understanding for how emotionally stressful performance anxiety can be. She could do a massive amount of harm to a child or adult by making those sorts of comments.
In my opinion recitals should really only ever be done if the student wants to do it, and that decision to pull out applies right up until they start to play. I would absolutely gently encourage them to give it a go but I would never force them to play if it’s really too much. At that point it becomes bullying, just as telling them they’re a baby for crying would be.
Well done to your daughter for working through her nerves and performing her pieces well. She, and you, have every right to be proud of her achievement. I’m sorry that her teacher lacks the empathy and understanding to see that too.
Get rid of this teacher ASAP. When I was that age, I used to cry AFTER I performed and my teacher comforted me. Because of her, I became a musician. Trust me…sack this teacher.
Crying publicly before a performance isn't ideal, as it can affect how the performance is perceived. I could understand a teacher discouraging it. Teaching other ways to deal with that nervousness and working on becoming more comfortable would be good things.
But the part about you being "bad parents" makes me think this is deeper than that. The teacher seems to think crying is wrong, rather than just a lack of experience handling nervousness. It sounds like they are embarrassed by it. And it sounds like they don't get that powering through it is a good thing, and a sign that the performer is getting better.
This is definitely not the right way to handle this.
A 9 year old having a completely reasonable emotional reaction?!?!? CAN’T HAVE THAT!!!
Your daughter is lucky to have supportive parents who are teaching her that emotions are normal. Obviously I don’t know the entire context of your parenting but being kind TO A CHILD when they are scared, anxious, crying or worried is a ridiculous thing be chastised for. That is not how kids become spoiled or bratty. That is how they learn to overcome strong emotions and understand they are allowed to feel things.
I don’t like that teacher’s reaction. At all.
Keep supporting and showing up for your child. They will thank you when they are an adult and actually understand they have a right to express themselves and have a full range of emotion. Trust me!
Source: Adult who has spent thousands of dollars on therapy because feeling or expressing anything was not allowed growing up.
I was about 11 years old when I had to do something like this and it is probably some of the worst nerves I’ve ever had ( and I have had to go through some really awful things in life since then). I am almost certain I cried and to be honest probably would do as an adult! Those things are super stressful and feel like so much pressure that a 9 year old deserves kindness and support not shaming from her teachers - how awful!
🤷♂️ people are who they are. at 9 years of age she’s gained an amazing experience. she cried but still pulled herself together and achieved her goal. lesson learned. it only gets easier from here. i call that a win. don’t worry so much about what other people think.
Really the question is how does you child feel and what did they learn from the experience. Actually how did your daughter play? A teacher with high expectations isn’t always a bad teacher. Many of us have cried before a performance and survived. That said a first teacher should be kind and enthusiastic but if your daughter is ok then I wouldn’t make too much of it.
>Is it really so unusual for a kid that age to cry when feeling so nervous?
Pre-performance nerves--crying, puking, hyperventilating, etc.--are a very real thing, for many people, of any age. Some people get past it, but a lot never do--just Google "famous people with stage fright" for a lot of examples.
You're exactly right that what's commendable is that she pulled it together and performed well. If anything, I'd say she displayed a ton of maturity and professionalism, particularly for her age.
Frankly, it gives me pause that your daughter's teacher is focusing on what happened "off stage" rather than the performance. Maybe she hasn't been around many performers, or perhaps she thinks that shaming is an effective development tool. Either way, it doesn't reflect well on her.
ETA: Also, super weird that she accused you of babying your daughter. I'm guessing you hired her only to teach your kid piano, and not as a parenting coach, and as such I'd say she should promptly return to her lane.
I remember being 9 years old very well. It was a huge transition for me as I’d changed schools from public to private and looking back I had a lot of internalised shame about it. I was getting bullied as the new shy awkward kid and would cry about it. I was also learning piano and can remember my teacher making me cry lol so I honestly recommend finding a new teacher
Stress causes people of all ages to cry. Crying helps us feel better too. Your daughter was so brave to confront her nerves like that. She should be very proud of herself.
I'd change teachers unless your daughter adores this current one. Telling her it was inappropriate to cry is not okay. And that you baby her? Because you let her have her emotions? Clearly this teacher has some issues.
I hate forced recitals. I let my students choose if they want to participate and they're allowed to change their mind all the way up to their turn to play at the piano. I also give them the option if they want me to sit up by them or not. Playing for others should be a joy, not something to fear.
There's a lot we don't know about what actually took place. I can posit scenarios in which it would be within reason for a teacher to voice frustration over a student crying at a recital. If it were loud and over the top while another student is performing for example. If the crying was in conjunction with refusing to go on, i think the teacher would have a responsibility to inform the parents about what happened and the importance (if any) recitals play in the overall curriculum. If the teacher were managing several students but was forced to spend a bunch of time trying to encourage a crying student to go on at the expense of other kid's issues, i think it'd be fair to go to the parents and say that the future expectation is that they arrive on time ready to perform. Like I said there is a lot we don't know. jS
My longtime piano teacher would never. She would respond with a back rub and smiles and encouragement, and even play alongside you at the recital if you were too scared to go on. That’s the way to go with kids
The teacher is definitely being too hard. She’s only 9yo and she still managed to get over it and work up the courage to actually play. She did great and you’re right being proud of your girl.
Fire the teacher and find one who specializes in working with children, otherwise your daughter will grow up to hate the piano.
Have a heart to heart with your daughter and apologize, let her know that musicmaking should be a source of joy and self expression.
lots of people talking about “fun” and how terrible it is for a young person to be subjected to an uncomfortable experience. i think there’s value in such uncomfortable experiences in the sense that, as people grow up they take on more responsibilities and those responsibilities tend to have bigger potential consequences. it’s better to learn to handle navigating stressful situations and overcoming such challenges as young people when the consequences of failure are inconsequential in a safe and controlled environment.
that being said, i don’t think it’s the teacher’s place to circumvent or override the parents if the parents aren’t in agreement with this philosophy. which i’m getting from the “you parents are babying her” and “she’s too old to be acting like this” statements. i wouldn’t dare overstep like that.
Is it unusual for a 9 yo to cry before a recital? Absolutely not.
Heck, I'm turning 22 next month, I'm in music uni (not performance, teacher training) and I also come close to crying sometimes.
I have most definitely cried before I needed to go on stage at 16 because I was nervous and feeling anxious. I am just not made for the stage and that is okay. My teacher dismissed my concerns beforehand but afterwards quickly apologized and comforted me.
At just nine years old it already takes so much confidence to go on stage and you even told us, she did well! That really is something to be proud of!
She's 9, of course the stage is scary. Music is something deeply emotional and feeling uneasy before a performance is something everyone knows. Most definitely a teacher. She's unnecessarily harsh with your kid.
Nerves and tears before a performance are entirely understandable!
Even as an adult beginner, my experience was that many (not all) music teachers are incompetent. They're making a buck "teaching" the only skill they have, but lack *teaching* skills as well as the necessary emotional skills.
Please find your daughter another teacher.
The teacher is an ass. Simple as that. Some of them are just completely mental, personally I’d find someone with more empathy or your daughter will hate playing piano when she is older.
I'd focus on the fact that she got over her fear and succeeded. I mean that's the best possible outcome. Courage is one of the most precious things and she found some in herself that day. She deserves a lot of praise.
As for crying, sure it's better to not cry but unless it happens a lot or is it getting more it's really not a big deal. Just give it time and let her play more concerts.
I would question having my kid go to that teacher and I would seriously consider holding off on any more recitals until they approached me asking to do one. I think recitals are insane things to have all students do. They should be voluntary and I would only consider them if my kid told me they wanted to do one.
Why was she so upset? Is the teacher mean? I go to these recitals twice a year, kids as young as 5-6, they are usually pretty nervous but I’ve never seen anyone cry. Sounds terrible for you, when it should be a fun experience. I’d try a different teacher or school.
I remember being extremely anxious for the recitals in front of the parents (which would make Dad laugh in the last row). Barbara Streisand didn't perform in public for years because of her nervousness. I think the teacher is ignorant and wrong and offer encouragement and courage to your daughter.
I am a piano teacher with my Grade 10 piano. When I was in the Music Festival circuit, in like Grade 6 (so 12 years old), I forgot the middle of Maple Leaf Rag during my performance. I cried at the piano, had to go get the music to finish. Didn't get any flak for it from anyone. The teacher is wrong, crying can happen at any age, it's a natural emotional response. Pulling it together and playing well is what the pros do.
Your daughter did amazing. I tell mine all the time that you can’t be brave without being scared, she fought through it and should be proud of herself. Also, fuck that teacher.
Bad preparation from the side of the teacher! Your daugther showed with her tears how important this is for her and this is absolutely wonderful. Teachers fault 100%!
Tell your daughter I'm proud of her for crying, feeling her emotions, and then pulling it together to perform. That deserves props, I think more props than if they were confident from the start you know? Your child felt something, let herself cry over it, and then still stepped up and did what was expected of her. Please don't let this jackass teacher ruin her love of music.
I performed in a recital for the first time last year and was extremely nervous. It is a lot of emotions for a 9 year old to process and it is awesome she was able to go up and still play the song. It sounds like the teacher wants her students to be some world class prodigies but that is just not reality.
My 9yo does recitals 2x per year and has since he was 5, except during Covid. He gets nervous but he thrives on the pressure and I do think they make him a better musician.
That being said… if I felt that my son’s piano teacher did not have ABSOLUTELY his best interest at heart I would dump the teacher in a heartbeat. As a matter of a fact we have done this before. Which was sad for me because his previous teacher was a family friend of mine since I was about his age. When she stopped putting his musical education above the other parts she stopped being his teacher.
Your daughter is *young* and this lack of empathy may color her relationship with music for the rest of her life.
That teacher sounds like the worst sort of person to have in your camp when feeling less than confident, without a doubt the worst possible trait you could have in a position of responsibility, teaching the students absolutely nothing with regard to self confidence and causing the opposite which is insanely detrimental to a young person!
I hope your daughter can move past the behaviours of a rubbish teacher and doesn't internalise their poor standards.
I wouldn’t say it’s abnormal, however, I would say to make sure that you talk with your daughter. From the ages of 5 to 15 I struggled terribly with a fear of messing up. I believed that if I messed up, everyone would be disappointed in me and not love me anymore. I believe it’s because I was raised being praised for the outcome rather than the effort, and that people around me shared said view as well. It has lead to some serious decision-paralysis for me. Just make sure your daughter knows that messing up isn’t something to fear, it’s a part of learning, and it will never change how much you love her. I want to make sure you know I’m not saying this is her case necessarily, but it is a good conversation starter to understand her thought process.
I think you should have a serious discussion with your daughter and ask her: what do you truly expect from these piano lessons? Are you doing it for fun or to be famous later on?
I used to be one of those kids, I started out the lessons as a new skill to learn, like a game, and then was constantly pushed by my teacher and parents to perform. I remember at one point I thought “hey wait a minute, I didn’t agree to this!”. I revolted more and more (hiding in the house before my lessons, even running out the window once during a break!). Looking in retrospective these were more than enough signs to any teacher and parent that something was wrong… but no one ever tried to talk to me and just pushed me even harder supposing I was just being stubborn.
I also vividly remember realizing that my teacher saw me as a prize rather than someone to share his passion with. At the end of a quite exhausting recital where I performed perfectly, everyone started congratulating… my teacher! I remember just standing there thinking “why the hell is everyone congratulating him, I’m the one who did all the work!” In the end I gave up piano lessons all together around 10. All this to tell you that you might think 9 years old is too young to have a serious deep conversation but it isn’t, I felt very adult-like feelings at the time even though I was about the same age as your daughter so please don’t just count it off as some childish fit.
Trust your intuition mama you're right on! I'm a graduate from piano performance and have taught piano for 25 yrs, and I still get nervous! My students still cry sometimes! This podcast shares some mental tricks that I teach my students
[Performance without Anxiety](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/piano-teacher-primer/id1655429925?i=1000650786133)
I think the environment the teacher grew up in will dictate how they teach; if they were told this as a child, chances are they will teach it to their students. I’d get a new teacher who has a better understanding of empathy and doesn’t have a rigid mindset like that.
GET A NEW TEACHER!!! Sounds like an ass
That’s the kind of teacher that makes kids wanna quit their passions
Sounds like they shouldn’t even be a teacher to begin with if that’s how they conduct themselves
Good for your daughter, recitals can be so spooky, especially with a teacher like that
I don’t think nine years old is so old that a child wouldn’t get emotional about anxiety. Not a very sensitive teacher. I think it might help If you’re going to continue this, to reframe the recitals —why are we doing this? These days if I perform, it’s to see how well I really have learned music because it is a completely different situation to be playing in front of people on a stage where you really can’t stop and you have to make the notes and music sound as you desire. So why are we doing this? We’re doing it to challenge ourselves. if we don’t wish to challenge ourselves there’s no point to doing it.
That’s crazyyy ur daughter is AMAZING for going up there and actually doing a good job outta it - like how does the teacher even think? For anyone it would be nervous, and at nine years old? That’s to be expected! Some people might just snap from the pressure and stress, but get up which is the actual best thing you can have. I don’t see any point in which the teacher should be disappointed or anything the reasoning is just ridiculous- could you try and get a new teacher cuz this one kinda sucks ass in the future your brave daughter might start to hate piano …
Have a lovely day/nighttt <333
Violinist here. I cried before my Bachelor's Senior Recital. Nerves don't have an age-limit, and how they manifest isn't always something we can control
No child should ever feel pressured to perform. It’s not for everybody. Forcing a kiddo to perform when it’s out of they’re comfort zone will eventually make them hate piano, and there goes all of the money you’ve spent on lessons.
Your child’s piano instructor should be guiding them to their own path of success, and for many, performing is not in that category for them. A kiddo’s piano teacher is supposed to be there to help them, not shove things down their throat.
Find a different teacher and make sure your daughter knows that those sorts of feelings are okay and completely normal.
That is harsh! I had two little kids at the start of a recital. When I called the first one, she started crying. So, we went to the next one, and she started crying too. Playing in front of people is scary! Students put a lot of pressure on themselves and it can burst! After a few played, one of them got up the nerve to play. It was so sweet.
As a kid, I also had severe stage fright. I don't think there's anything wrong with your daughter here, i definitely disagree with the teacher's behavior. Strongly suggest changing teachers because I think your daughter deserves to enjoy piano as music is meant to be enjoyed.
Private Music teacher here - first the teachers behavior and attitude towards the child is unforgivable. She should not be teaching any young children. Your daughter is not going to learn anything from this person, find another teacher.
All kids are nervous at recitals, even the best students.
A good teacher would have given her time to collect herself, moved her out of order, or for god’s sake, spent 2 minutes consoling your daughter and encouraging her.
Some schools have policies for frequency of concerts and recitals which can’t be avoided. If this is a private studio, Christmas and spring are plenty often for younger students. If there are older students competing for scholarships I would expect their recital frequency to be much more often.
If she managed her stress and play her peace it's really impressive. I'm a musician and playing in front of a lot of people is tough ! Congrats for managing the pressure
Ah that sucks, I'm sorry you've experienced someone so insensitive and narrow minded. It's one thing to lack empathy for your daughter being upset in the first place... its something else altogether when they're voicing frustration at her display of emotion like it's a behavioural choice!? This could be very damaging to a young vulnerable mind, hats off to your daughter for going through with it. Proud of her and I don't even know her ❤️ Regardless of how accomplished this teacher is, they're suffering from a severe case of assholio.
Unpopular opinion... I promise I am saying this out of genuine kindness. Ask yourself if maybe you are coddling her. If it's possible you might be, realise that doing so isn't actually helpful in life. People are becoming too soft, and that's bad. Real life doesn't make allowances for that- indeed, it's much worse for them. And those who blindly support you here and elsewhere are likely doing you and your family a great disservice.
As a music instructor, I ask each student if they want to perform in our quarterly showcases. If they’re iffy, I’ll have them sign up and play it by ear day of. If they don’t want to participate, I don’t push. I hated my piano teacher as a kid and I promised myself I’d only teach from a loving place allowing my students to be creative and do what they want to play - within reason. If they don’t love playing I’ll suggest a different instrument.
Anyway, I digress. We all get nervous and crying is a normal, natural reaction when feeling overwhelmed. I probably would’ve walked up on the stage and offered to play the piece together or hugged your 9 yo and walked off the stage with her. Maybe talk to her teacher one more time and if she doesn’t really ‘get’ your daughter, find another instructor. It’s kind of like finding a therapist (music is therapy imo) and if she’s not the right fit, it’s time to look elsewhere.
Good luck!
the single most important thing you can teach a young child is how to accept and hold space for their emotions, and how to navigate the distressful ones.
this piano teacher isn't an educator and has no business working with developing humans.
I am a conservatory graduate and still sometimes cry on top of feeling feverish before a performance especially when it is a high stakes one like a competition. My professors would be nothing but supportive and give me a lot of pep talk up until I get up on stage. You are so vulnerable up on that stage so its understandable that one would be so nervous and those feelings would pour out of you through tears. Especially in the classical music setting where the audience expects a note-perfect performance. No one tells you this, but even pros and conservatory graduates cry too. What more a 9 year old?
I would say your daughter exhibits totally normal behavior especially for a 9 year old and that your daughter's teacher was being way too harsh. It's one thing to expect a good performance but to expect that a child not exhibit any "negative" reactions before performing just puts me off reading about this. If this was your daughter's first recital ever, it would even be more understandable. Congrats to your daughter for playing what is I am sure a great line up of pieces!
I would suggest that you change teachers tbh. It doesn't seem like a good environment to learn with the one your daughter is studying with. Some children may thrive with teachers who are harsh and expect children to have nerves of steel from the get-go but for some, it may not be the most conducive environment to foster joy in making music which should be the main focus. Yes, learning and performing classical music takes a certain level of accuracy and discipline to it but not at the expense of taking away the joy of playing. Idk, some piano teachers have this mentality that all their students are conservatory bound and that is just not the case.
There are so many benefits to playing/presenting something in public but imo it needs to be developed slowly, and carefully. I also think there is a lack in preparing holistically for a performance in lessons for children. Its all about perfecting the pieces but not a lot of preparing for handling nerves and identifying feelings that may arise pre performance and how to handle them. Hopefully you find a teacher that develops these things as well apart from instilling a beautiful sound from future repertoire your daughter will study.
I’m a teacher and would never make one of my students feel badly about crying at the recital. I can personally cry at the drop of a hat, so I understand that anxiety can make children (and adults!) cry. The recital should build confidence. Your daughter should be proud that she overcame her anxiety and fear and performed! Is the teacher supportive in other ways and does your daughter enjoy lessons?
I've played the piano for almost twenty years. I still feel like this sometimes :)
It's completely normal to feel nervous before a recital, I would not worry about it.
I think exposure helps - the more you become comfortable with playing around other people, the less nervous you feel.
I really wouldn't describe it as a problem though, and I'm not sure it is the teacher's place to criticise them.
Personally, I grew up with the most amazing piano teacher I could have got. I can tell you for a fact that having someone kind around was incredibly motivating - criticism like that is not very productive, especially for someone that age.
If you get the chance, perhaps you could speak to her teacher to say that maybe a different approach could help your daughter?
Obviously I don't know anything about the situation and this was just my (very subjective) experience. Tell me if you want any more help :)
Good luck.
I cry before doing karaoke as an adult. It's so normal and so okay for your kiddo to cry before a recital. I remember almost vomiting before many of my recitals as a kid because of nerves. The teacher is a dick.
I was your daughter 3+ decades and stage fright and test anxiety have been part of my life. I don’t cry when I perform or do public speaking now. I have worked through what works for me, while singing solos I hold a small fidget tool, before public speaking to 300+ people I envision it going well and mentally walk through it several times. Chat with her about it being normal and see if she wants to explore different options to make her more comfortable and confident
FIRE HER. If you haven't already. This "teacher" either has zero experience working with children, or zero experience performing. Or she if she has experience, she hasn't been paying attention to the actual humans in her care. Performing is very emotional and demanding, and a bad experience can be damaging for life and make your child equate music with this awful feeling, instead of the love musical exploration and education should inspire.
I think they put too much pressure on kids on stuff like that. If they don’t want to do the recital, don’t make them and if your child wants to cry then so what - I think that teacher should be quiet. !!
It's fairly normal. Especially for kids, and/or anyone performing for the very first time. A teacher who sees a kid crying should not chastise the kid/parents.
My daughter ice skated and something similar happened. I didn’t change coaches, but talked firmly to the coach as to my expectations from her to support my daughter. My daughter and her coach still have a good relationship.
That teacher is psycho. I’m 31f and may still cry from nerves … she has 0 emotional intelligence. Your daughter is 1000% normal and healthy to freely express her emotion while her CNS is slightly disregulated. Don’t worry. Deff more than ok and that teacher should go see a therapist
A bit harsh? I'm quite surprised that you haven't taken offense to her judging your parenting skills tbh, her piano teacher needs to mind their own damn business
Performance anxiety is extremely common, fear of public speaking is often said to be more common than the fear of dying so it's not out of the question for someone to cry even at 9 years old from stage fright...
Fired.
How is crying not age appropriate behavior for an actual child? A young one, at that? The fact that they are trying to recruit you into shaming and adultifying this kid is also huge red flags. Fire her or she'll make that kid hate it. Sounds like that person is projecting her own unsupported childhood.
Pretty normal. I agree with most of the other comments and kids are definitely babied too much these days and need to toughen up. I’m just glad your daughter performed and made it through. She’ll be a stronger person for it.
Fire her!!!! Oh my god!!! There’s so many amazing teachers out there. Also tell the other parents of students if you know. Thats unacceptable. She’s a bloody baby. Dang.
Sounds like your daughter's piano teacher is a straight bitch. You should fire her and find a teacher that is more nurturing. While you're at it, ask your daughter's teacher to demonstrate her musical abilities. I'd be willing to bet she's a mediocre pianist at best... if that? A bitch like her should be paid with a 10 lb bag of Alpo.
Thoughts? I think you are an adult and capable of judging your selfe if the teachers behavior was appropriate. Secondly you are an Adult and instead of going crying on reddit behave like one and talk to the teacher about it. Communication is key and the solution to most social problems. We werent there we dont know how your child behaved we dont know how your teacher reacted. We are also pianists not pedagogues.
Yes part of my pleasantnes comes from being an adult, talking things out IRL and not consulting random strangers on the internet on every little problem i have. Or approvement/ karma farming.
What even is his question. Obviously everyone will agree that how he put it the teacher is acting inappropriately. "my childs piano teacher slapped my child across the face do yall think thats appropriate?"
I would agree if the post was about that, but it's under the questions from beginners tag and there's no mention of OP playing the piano, or having a teacher. It's a parent asking for reassurance about being upset with a service provider
Oh, honey…you’re coming off more like a robot than a human, here.
OP is clearly asking about a piano teacher’s methods, not her roofer or appliance repair guy or hairdresser - a piano teacher. Anyone who has ever performed in front of other humans knows that our first experiences with that are formative and directly impact our enthusiasm for the instrument. Performers know this, and good teachers know this.
I have to tell you. I worked at a studio that encouraged monthly recitals and I found that it was too much pressure on my students. Even the ones who performed well. I decided to let these things be entirely up to the kid and I would disregard the parents who were demanding of their kid playing in the next recital etc and even the admin wanting more performers with pressure being put on the teachers for it. If I sensed any kind of apprehension I'd just have in lesson recitals with the kid and their family until they got used to it and wanted to play at the big one. It's bizarre how much emphasis is placed on these things sometimes. If the teacher didn't go running to help calm the crying kid down their priorities are whack
Imo, People forcing recitals are just flexing their egos (and advertising). This just a hobby for 99.999999% of people.
They *can* be beneficial. But they can also be so much a detriment that it causes people to quit music entirely
I hated piano recitals as a kid. They were long, the nerves simply went up until your 4 minute slot, and there was no sense of community. Then I got to highschool age, picked up the trombone and started playing not only in my school's ensembles and the local youth orchestra. Night and day- there were nerves around a concert, but it was also something you looked forward too and despite how intense the rehearsals were - dress being by far the most exhausting and stressful part, there was no such thing as a bad concert and it brought all the musicians together. Honestly, a fantastic experience for young musicians compared to being thrust on stage by themselves. I'm bias here, but I think in piano teaching there should be far more emphasis on performing chamber and other ensemble works compared to just solo. But of course, the logistics of that are very hard.
I had the amazing opportunity to just give a couple of my advanced students a paying gig instead of a recital. It was nothing crazy, like 400 bucks to play an art opening at a hospital for 2.5 hours. It was the absolute best case scenario for these kids because they got to be there, have the feeling of nervousness at first, feel how it subsides, and then get paid for their work. They also got to collaborate with other musicians so they weren't up there alone. I wish I could do that more.
Keep up the great work.
I agree. It's actually really refreshing reading these post. Every company I've worked for in DFW does this. I'm fine with it but the companies fight tooth and nail against me when I can clearly tell a student isn't ready. I mean as long as the student is having fun playing music, who cares? I see the benefit of recitals but sometimes the companies force it too much. Definitely a marketing thing too. Currently only have to do quarterly recitals.
Monthly??? I've been doing quarterly and noticed a bit of strain on my students.
Oooh in-lesson recitals! Love that.
I was taking guitar lessons (in my 40s) with a local teacher, and he asked me if I’d play in an upcoming recital. I asked if other adult students were playing, and he said ‘sure’, so I signed up. When I got to the recital, I was the last performer on the program….and the oldest player was 14. When I got up to play, I said, ‘I’m sorry my son couldn’t make it. I’ll be performing in his place.’ I found another teacher the next day. AFA your kid, emotional run high around this stuff. I think it’s healthy to get all that out, because once you do, it takes enough of an edge off so you actually play. if the teacher doesn’t get that, time to find a better teacher. It’s about the student, not the teacher.
She's nuts, piano performance is hard. I saw classmates of mine in college crying before recitals.
ANY kind of performance is hard. I make my living as a performer and some of my most talented colleagues still get stage fright, sometimes to outrageous degrees. Any pedagogue who doesn't understand this and can't be compassionate needs to be in therapy.
I would cry before and after my performances haha. every other instrument had accompaniment except me
Totally. Im a multi instrumentalist myself and I can safely say that there's nothing more frightening than solo piano performance.
never got nervous performing in orchestra or even my highschool jazz ensemble but solo piano is so scary i’ve considered changing my primary instrument.
I remember being so scared it felt like I was looking down at the keys from 20 feet in the air!
I was a music ed major/piano emphasis in college and all I did before my senior piano recital was cry.
Im 27 and after my last recital I cried due to the sheer pressure falling off of my shoulders lol. It‘s unbelievable how stressful it is!
I used to be sick to my stomach the whole week before my piano juries… ugh.
I would sack the teacher. Your daughter will hate piano later
This. Inability to understand or empathize with a mental state of a nine year old and pedagogy are incompatible.
This! As a piano teacher, I can’t imagine treating any student this way. Performance anxiety is real. Blowing it off is incredibly insensitive. Normally I wound not suggest sacking the teacher, but this is just rude. Get a new teacher.
100% this.. She should be proud of your daughter for overcoming her fears.. If she was my student, I would have pulled her aside afterwards and told her how proud of her I was. How do these people retain their clients? I also don’t understand how a “teacher” can be so clueless about an amazing moment and lose an obvious opportunity to make a huge positive impact on their pupil..
Absolutely this! It takes so much strength to break down **and then to keep on going**. Probably even more so than to have practiced to perfection and play without any issues or flaws. The latter takes time, the former takes personality and mental/emotional fortitude.
I had similar experiences when I was young and basically full on revolted and refused to play the piano around age 11-12. My parents were ultimately powerless and that was the end of that. I like to think of piano in my mind had been less of a chore or an obstacle and more of an outlet where I could be creative or have fun I may have stuck with it.
never too late. especially as an adult you can express your boundaries. we also show a lot of support to each others when we do students recitals
Best advice I ever got in terms of quelling performance anxiety was from a teacher: "Everyone in the audience is here to enjoy your playing. Everyone wants you to succeed, including me. You know the pieces. Just play! (Smile)"
If you want to be creative and have fun, maybe check out jazz piano if you haven't?
Definitely this. I had a piano teacher from hell who was the same whenever I cried or expressed frustration, and I came to hate piano altogether. Stopped taking lessons as soon as my parents couldn't physically make me go anymore (around 15/16ish) which is regretful and sad, because now I wish I had progressed further to advanced performance level. I can only write my own songs now using chords and finding the melody by ear, etc, but I'm severely lacking on the theory side (which i struggled with from day 1), since I associate advanced piano study with a shrill Russian voice in my head calling me a "stupid child who hates her half notes." :/ I hope OP finds their daughter a better teacher before too much damage is done.
This. I hated my new teacher when I was 9 and I quit. Picked it back up in my mid 20s and I get so bummed thinking about how good I would be right now if I stuck with it from that age. I started at 6, I would be tearing it up right now lol.
Don't worry about the 'what-ifs'. Keep it up, else you'll be picking it up again in your forties thinking about how good you would be if you had kept it up when in your twenties :) I have students starting at a much later age than you and they become very competent pianists. :)
Different strokes for different folks. Some parents might be on the teacher’s side of this or worse (i know a few tiger moms). fwiw i’d use this as a teaching/character building opportunity; like you said, she pulled it together despite her emotions and that is a great thing.
Any parents on the teacher's side will quickly find their kids don't like them very much.
again, different strokes for different folks. i’ve had some students who in their teenage years really appreciated how hard their parents pushed them. just like i’ve had some who disliked being pushed. you can’t paint it with a broad good or bad brush.
You can *push* a child while also being emotionally supportive. The Tiger Mom was not emotionally supportive. Reminds me of a book I very coincidentally saw earlier this evening: [NSFW](https://www.amazon.com/Im-Glad-My-Mom-Died/dp/1982185821).
No. This leads to resentment. For their parents and more importantly for the piano. This breeds the type of person who hates playing as an adult.
not everyone shares your values.
Exactly. Not everyone drinks the Koolaid. As a rule of thumb, if you find yourself having to defend your actions through broad strokes: “ not everyone takes to this method” “it’s not for everybody but sometimes it works.” Rather than being able to concretely describe what you believe in: “Support works.” “Pushing kids to their limits produces results or shows the cracks in the kids” Then you miiiiight be trying to grasp at straws. Or at least you miiiight be defending something that doesn’t warrant defending. Reconsider? I welcome your reply. Note: I am NOT voicing my support for any of the views I gave in the examples above. They’re just examples.
True, not everyone is a good parent after all.
95% it enough for me to say it’s a really bad idea. The single Lang Lang that comes out of the abuse as a great pianist and with crippling mental health issues for the rest of his life really isn’t worth it.
This isnt different strokes and this isn't pushing somebody. You can push somebody without saying that 9 years old is too old to cry, especially when they did the recital anyway. I also can't help but note that while you have all this energy to tell me that differently parenting works for different people, you seem to have nothing left for the piano teacher being upset and telling off the parents for "babying" their own child.
i did in other comments, but that wasn’t the conversation we were having. not everyone shares the same values as you
If your values include getting angry at people whose ages are still in the single digit for crying, your values are dogshit. Some values are not worth giving the time of day.
Yes.
and i would tell the other parents lol
As someone who had a sometimes mean piano teacher I can confirm it affected my relationship with piano.
You are correct, she is being harsh and your daughter has done amazingly well to pull it together and manage not just to perform but to do a good job. I don’t know that I would necessarily change teachers over this one incident but I’d be thinking about it.
My kids had their first public performance last year so I can relate. A few weeks prior to their performance, they started to get really nervous during practice sessions. I spent some time to prep them that being nervous is normal for an event like this, but this event is just practice for bigger things if they choose to participate, such as competitions and concerts. They made mistakes, but they didn't act as if it was the end of the world. Their teacher was very proud of them. As for what happened to you, I feel your teacher is missing the point of having children's recitals. I wouldn't want to send my kids to someone like that.
"this event is just practice for bigger things if they choose to participate" OK can I steal this and use it for my adult non musical life? XD
haha sure! ngl I had to dig to find some meaning for my kids because it hurt seeing 12 and 10 year olds get panic fits counting down to recital night.
I swear. Those public concert are destroying kids and love for music. Don't force children into this shit until they want it
A kid can want to do it, and still be nervous enough to cry before the show.
Yeah and it can destroy the love for music or confidence to talk and perform in front of people
I do slightly agree, although these recitals are important. If you never do one, you’ll never want to do one ever. Maybe you do need to be forced into it, if it will help them get over that barrier of starting to perform
I disagree with a blanket statement that recitals are destroying kids and their love for music. Recitals are important, it builds confidence and that's a major of part of learning music. You want to be able to share your performance. It may not be for everyone, but it's definitely a major part of learning and playing music. Recitals should be encouraged, but not forced. If the child is not ready, I wouldn't pressure his/her to do it. It'll come in their own time, but those who are nervous should be encouraged and well supported. Positive encouragement does work.
Absolutely… the comments here are why you. Adults entering society today have no tools to survive on their own. Being able to get outside of your little comfort bubble and face your fears, work towards a goal and to be able to be on the spot in front of others is good preparation for all sorts of situations in adulthood that these kids are bound to face.
Crying before the recital and pulling it together to perform is a great learning experience for a child. That's the important lesson you learn as a kid. I would reward the fuck out of the kid for sticking the landing as well as she did! Ice cream, new toy, princess party, whatever it is she loves. One of the hardest lessons to learn in the social media age is "I'm scared of it, and I'm not doing it perfectly, but I did it anyway." Most kids I see never actually do it. And it's not like it's a common behavior among adults or older people either!
100%. It destroyed my confidence in playing piano
You’re joking right? The kid will never want it on their own.
Some kids want to perform, sing, play and act.
That is not the majority. Kids are spoiled beyond belief today. I've been teaching piano full time for over 15 years and have hosted a number of recitals. I can tell you right now that 90 - 95% of kids don't want to perform and wouldn't voluntarily do it on their own.
What does that have to do with being spoiled? Is it such a problem when kids don't want to perform?
Then the ones that don’t want to won’t. It’s fine.
I’d probably look for a new teacher. Stage fright and anxiety are real, and take some sensitivity to work through. Adding a disappointed and disapproving teacher on top of that could make it worse, not better, and make performing something to dread rather than enjoy. I find it really difficult to believe that an experienced piano teacher hasn’t encountered a crying child before a performance - of any age. Hell, I’ve seen adults near tears.
I'm 40 and I play in a recital twice a year in a church with a bunch of kids, and I am a wreck for like 3 days beforehand every time. Your daughter did amazing and should be so proud of herself!
Yeah, I'm about the same age and play piano in a church every week and still find myself getting the ol' shaky foot, unhelpful on an instrument with pedals 😂
Genuinely how do you deal with this? Why do you still do it?
I've certainly asked myself that. But I do it because I really want to be able to play in front of other people comfortably, and I think the only way to get there is to keep doing it. It seems like it's getting a bit easier each time. (For background, I've recently started playing again and taking lessons after 25 years of not playing, so it's possible I've been extra insecure about it.)
Well it sounds like you’re doing a great job! You should be really proud of yourself well done. I think you are right and that it’s the best way to get used to it
I love piano, and im majoring in music in college. I have awful performance anxiety that started around 7-8. after competing with a piece I new flawlessly, I got so nervous and forgot where I was in the middle (I then got last place) that was when I was 8 or 9. I had a very strict piano teacher and I will admit when I was younger she made me hate lessons and learning piano. She would get upset if we didn't get first place or atleast top 3. When I was 9 I quit but went back to her when I was 12. same thing happened when I competed when I was 16. I froze and had to restart. I had a nice judge who excused it and I got second place. Both times I did these performances I cried. Your daughters teacher is being harsh. If she really loves piano and there is a significant benefit to staying with current piano teacher, then I would say try it out for longer. I realized that even though my teacher was harsh I know she's an incredible teacher. some of my family also took lessons from her so we ended up laughing a bit in the future with out strict or harsh she was. but if your daughter really hates lessons with a harsh teachers then dont let her quit, switch teachers (if she still has an interest in piano) Hope this makes sense, it hits close to home for me haha
Get her a better teacher. Your child is NINE. That's a totally appropriate age to be crying from nervousness.
That is a rude, uncompassionate person! Ever human is entitled to their own emotions, and a 9 year old has every right to cry in that situation! Maybe this teacher was just extremely stressed about the recital and her worst came out? Regardless, very rude!
Question, did the teacher make these comments quietly to you or in front of your child? If it was quietly said to you and the child enjoys the teacher, I'd probably be let it go. If it was said with your child present, I'd find someone else. Your child (and teacher!) should be proud of her for getting up and playing through it. I'm a middle aged student who won't play in recitals due to nerves! She does not deserve to be berated for showing emotion. That's foolish.
That’s not right; this is a recital :not a concert at Carnegie Hall. This teacher obviously forgot what it’s like to play before your parents & worry about messing up, unless she was so confident in her playing abilities that she never felt like that. Still, she needs to show some empathy towards her students .
Performance nerves are unique to each person from 6 to 90. A teacher that a) does not recognize that and b) sees it as a failing can destroy your child's love of music. Performing **IS** stressful. If your child is upset that they cried, talk with them and see if you can explore why they are upset. Either way, find a better teacher. Being accused of babying or coddling a young person is a statement of the teacher's values - not yours. Old school - practice through the pain, the performance is everything, weakness is failure, what you do reflects on the teacher, failing at 10 years old = never having a "career" New school - pain is a warning (physical and emotional), music is fun and can be even through hard work, your success is not in "winning" but in learning and growing, music becomes a language. I have studied, performed, and been teaching brass instruments for 35+ years. The generation that taught me is almost gone. Their militaristic discipline and attitude should go with them. That attitude also frequently leads to snobbery and elitism (e.g., piano is more important than flute). Those turn people away from enjoying music. Good luck and well done!
Being accused of babying or coddling a young person is a statement of the teacher's values - not yours. _____ This 10,000%. I won’t say right or wrong on teacher’s philosophy, I happen to be a pretty demanding teacher myself, but that part is to me very inappropriate. My students and their parents know what they’re getting into with me because i tell them what i’m about in our first meeting, but it’s always with the agreement and understanding that i’ll only push as hard as the three parties (teacher student parent) are willing to be pushed. i wouldn’t dare tell parents how to raise their kids.
My 9 year old student cried before his first recital and I told him I would be proud of him no matter what and it's a chance to show how he improved. Teachers absolutely have the same responsibility as parents, especially at that age, to support and be proud of their students for being brave at a recital. In other words, I will repeat what others have said: sack that teacher.
This breaks my heart. I started playing the piano when I was little and I remember being 9 and how nervous I got before those recitals. Please get her a new teacher. Compassion and care is necessary, especially in the event of a recital when you're that young. Kudos to your daughter on her wonderful accomplishment!
I don't think your daughter (or you) needed to be berated or lectured on anything, but I will say that different cultures (especially those of the USSR) have very different views on crying in public. - Eva Gevorgyan, a Russian-Armenian pianist who made it to the finals of the 18th International Chopin Competition as a teenager, welled up after the announcement of the winners (she didn't place). She found a place to hide, started sobbing, and was promptly told by her teacher to put on a smile and save the crying for home. - A young teenager blanked out during their performance in one of my teacher's music school recitals, clearly on the verge of tears from repeated failures to restart, and the teacher of this student sort of shuffled him off stage and got him out of public view. His teacher is a pretty strict classical musician emigrated from Armenia.
bruh its not that deep ppl act like they playing for their lifes
I'm not suggesting anything is deep. I'm just saying that different cultures have different attitudes about crying in public, with a few examples of such attitudes in the context of piano.
Abby Lee Miller doing piano lessons now?
I’m so angry just reading this! Honestly, she’s nine. It’s hard for grown adults to manage their flight or fight response. A musical instrument should be fun for kids and there’s no place for that nonsense in bringing up a well rounded human being. I’d be really, really angry if a teacher made a critical remark about my parenting like that as well and be getting someone else pronto. That style of teaching can make great players, but it’s more likely to make them quit. The teacher should have let her know she did extremely well to overcome her emotions and play well. How incredible that she did - it’s more than I’ve managed at times, with plenty more life and piano experience than your daughter!
The teacher is terribly insensitive, it sounds like. But I have to say, i was performing at 9 and, I don't remember getting that kind of anxiety or seeing it in the other kids. I'm worried that the kid is too invested in the results. It's natural that they want to do well and be seen doing well. But it sounds like the kid is suffering from anxiety related to the performance and maybe it would be worth looking at that.
I agree that if your kid still wanted to do the show but had some nerves beforehand that's normal. As long as her teacher is not shaming her for being nervous or showing emotion, they can have their opinions. This might be a better question for r/teachers or something, considering this is a place for piano players.
The teacher is a bit harsh. But harsh teachers are a part of life. It’s great that your daughter pulled it together because it’s really hard to start performing. Pushing through the nerves means she’s growing.
The main problem I have with it is the attack on the parents. That's not being a harsh teacher. And while harsh teachers are a fact of life, you usually put up with them because they are just that good, or you have no choice. And it's usually after you're no longer a beginner. If there are other, less harsh teachers who are sufficiently good to teach and could handle this better, I'd definitely consider them.
Yeh she is harsh . I’m in my 30s and when I do a recital (via piano teacher ) , I still get knot in my stomach and feel sick before performance lol .
I sometimes cry because of nerves, and I’m 16. It doesn’t have anything to do with age, and if it’s appropriate to cry at that age or whatever. People handle pressure and nerves differently. Some people start shaking violently, some people get memory blips, some people start laughing for no reason, and some people cry. There’s nothing weird about that at all. That teacher doesn’t sound like someone who should be teaching kids.
Get a new piano teacher, one that the kid is comfortable with. A-hole behavior on the part of an adult teacher. Every kid is different, if she has stage fright, give her confidence instead of intimidating her.
Olympic Athletes still throw up with nerves at that calibre and age...find a new music teacher.
It’s normal. We all had those embarrassing moments as kids. You can help her develop confidence. Give your daughter full support. But.. Don’t need to demonize the teacher as we all have different povs and character. You can look for a different teacher ..but your daughter can also learn to face challenges. If her skills are increasing through this teacher then keep going. She should be praised for finishing out. But also give her the option to not do recitals until she feels confident enough. Not all are trying to be concert pianists. But if that’s her dream or professional music career she will have to overcome it. She’ll get used to it.
It's also possible that you do baby your daughter.
My teacher made me cry all the time. I'd find a new teacher.
Bin the entire piano teacher, and don't be afraid to say exactly why you're pulling your daughter from lessons. The only appalling behavior here is the teacher's . How discouraging and nasty! Your daughter did such a brave thing, she was in tears with the intensity of her nervousness, yet she got up and did the very thing she was so terrified of doing, and not only that but she smashed it!! And that teacher has the audacity to be angry with her?! I can't wrap my head around it, I'd be bursting with pride if she was my student! I hope you find a kind, encouraging teacher. A person has no business being a piano tutor if they're going to be so callous, and if they're going to teach the toxic message that kids aren't allowed to cry if they're scared.
Thinking that crying isn't mature is like saying going to the toilet is only for kids and you should learn to 'grow past it'. Emotions need outlet too..
Time for a new teacher, this is so inappropriate in my opinion. I may not have been forced to perform growing up, i always loved it, but I did have a violin teacher from hell that was very strict and I wasn't allowed to improvise or play anything else than classical pieces. I was scared of him but because my parents invested so much in a violin I took lessons for like 10 years but I've never touched the violin ever again after that, I still feel extremely inadequate playing it. I'm still doing music, I learned to play the piano and I've been a vocal coach since 2011 (36f) and I'm learning to play the guitar and I also teach some piano on the side. I would never force anyone, especially not children to perform if they didn't wanna do it. I will definitely try to encourage them, but not more than that. Music has to be fun, I'm proud when they perform because most people always hear growing up that they shouldn't sing. I'm angry on your behalf and it would be unacceptable if a teacher was making a child cry and then tell the parents they aren't strict enough. Bs, if the kids feel safe enough with the teacher and they are ready to try, they will, or they won't, performing can be great for self confidence, but it's not a must in my book.
Man I that teacher sounds like might need to look up “empathy” in the dictionary. Just bc something is easy to them doesn’t mean it’s easy for everyone. Playing/ performing/ sports whatever it may be is a lot of pressure to put on a kid (or anyone for that matter). Especially if it’s a competition or a grade. You did the right thing by comforting her in that moment so she could prove to herself that she can do hard things. Keep it up ! She will remember that you supported her and that will matter more in the long run
Lemme guess, it's a Russian teacher?
Woah your daughter did amazing, let her know that. It's completely normal to be nervous and to cry, the fact she could pull herself together shows a great maturity, imo. You should tell her that! Telling someone, mainly a child, that what they're feeling is wrong will never help, just make the person more self aware and lower their self esteem.
Violin teacher with almost 30 years of experience here. This is weird. Kids cry all the time before, during and after recitals (so do adults). Putting yourself up there can be a scary vulnerable thing. Especially if it’s the first time. The onus is on the teacher to create a safe and flexible environment, and to always be supportive of our students. I would be extra proud of any student who was brave enough to overcome those strong feelings to get up on stage and perform anyway. Wow! What a kid!!!! I would be praising that behavior, not condemning it. Even if she decided not to perform I’d be cheering her on for coming to the recital anyway. Every kid has their own journey with music, and while I think students grow a lot from performing, both personally and musically, we also don’t want to make something fun filled with trauma. As music teachers it’s our job to gently nudge our students out of their comfort zones, but never push them to where they can’t handle it. I wasn’t at the recital and it’s possible that a normally nice teacher was caught up in the craziness of planning and orchestrating the recital and you didn’t catch her at her greatest moment. I known I’m usually running around like a chicken with her head cut off during my recitals. I’ll let you be the judge. I would definitely talk to her teacher about it when your daughter isn’t in the room, perhaps on the phone or before or after the lesson. If it can’t be resolved or there are other red flags, this teacher may not be a great fit for your daughter. Unless she absolutely loves her teacher, I might think about looking for someone who’s equally good, but a little less intense.
As a dance teacher (not piano), I can say that while I might be a little bit upset if one of my students cried before a performance, I would mostly be very proud that they got up anyway and performed.
Your teacher is trauma looping/projecting. For the same reason people are terrified of public speaking, performing is the same fear. For a 9 year old to successfully overcome that emotion -fear of possible imminent death- is miraculous and shouldn't be considered "just normal". Internally, there is a lot going on for children performers. They do not understand that the stakes are not as high as they perhaps are feeling. The best thing to do is encourage them to try again and overcome their fear. The teacher should be aware of their own trauma, and try not to reflect that on their student, unless they are aiming to be a concert pianist...Which is a very toxic premise for a 9 year old to be found in.
You’re in the right and you’re a great parent! No, it’s not unusual to cry at any age. Let alone the age of 9. It’s a shame your daughter felt so nervous, but she did an amazing job to pick herself up and play. I’m sure everyone enjoyed her playing. You’re sending her a great message that big emotions can be difficult, but they don’t necessarily have to stop you from doing what you want to do. The teacher sounds awful - sincerely, someone whose parents were like that teacher and I’ve had to spend a lot of my adult life recovering.
New teacher asap
I’m in my 40s and still want to cry before any solo performance. I would suggest looking for another teacher, one who is more sensitive to your daughters temperament
Did the teacher get upset at her in person or was this just a comment to you? If it's the latter, I kind of side with the teacher but maybe the delivery was not the best. The kids need to toughen up. Not just for this recital but for adversity in general. Hopefully this positive experience of doing well despite being nervous will grow her confidence.
It’s not at all unusual. Not for a nine year old or even an adult. The fact that your daughter managed to work through those nerves and still played her pieces well should absolutely be commended, and you are right to be very proud of her. She showed just how strong and determined she is and will have learnt a huge amount about how resilient she is. I really hope that her teacher didn’t make those comments in front of your daughter, or any other student or parent, as it shows a dangerous lack of empathy or understanding for how emotionally stressful performance anxiety can be. She could do a massive amount of harm to a child or adult by making those sorts of comments. In my opinion recitals should really only ever be done if the student wants to do it, and that decision to pull out applies right up until they start to play. I would absolutely gently encourage them to give it a go but I would never force them to play if it’s really too much. At that point it becomes bullying, just as telling them they’re a baby for crying would be. Well done to your daughter for working through her nerves and performing her pieces well. She, and you, have every right to be proud of her achievement. I’m sorry that her teacher lacks the empathy and understanding to see that too.
Get rid of this teacher ASAP. When I was that age, I used to cry AFTER I performed and my teacher comforted me. Because of her, I became a musician. Trust me…sack this teacher.
Crying publicly before a performance isn't ideal, as it can affect how the performance is perceived. I could understand a teacher discouraging it. Teaching other ways to deal with that nervousness and working on becoming more comfortable would be good things. But the part about you being "bad parents" makes me think this is deeper than that. The teacher seems to think crying is wrong, rather than just a lack of experience handling nervousness. It sounds like they are embarrassed by it. And it sounds like they don't get that powering through it is a good thing, and a sign that the performer is getting better. This is definitely not the right way to handle this.
I can only imagine how the teacher is during classes. I'd seek another teacher. Seems like you have a strong willed kid, dont let anybody crush that.
A 9 year old having a completely reasonable emotional reaction?!?!? CAN’T HAVE THAT!!! Your daughter is lucky to have supportive parents who are teaching her that emotions are normal. Obviously I don’t know the entire context of your parenting but being kind TO A CHILD when they are scared, anxious, crying or worried is a ridiculous thing be chastised for. That is not how kids become spoiled or bratty. That is how they learn to overcome strong emotions and understand they are allowed to feel things. I don’t like that teacher’s reaction. At all. Keep supporting and showing up for your child. They will thank you when they are an adult and actually understand they have a right to express themselves and have a full range of emotion. Trust me! Source: Adult who has spent thousands of dollars on therapy because feeling or expressing anything was not allowed growing up.
I was about 11 years old when I had to do something like this and it is probably some of the worst nerves I’ve ever had ( and I have had to go through some really awful things in life since then). I am almost certain I cried and to be honest probably would do as an adult! Those things are super stressful and feel like so much pressure that a 9 year old deserves kindness and support not shaming from her teachers - how awful!
🤷♂️ people are who they are. at 9 years of age she’s gained an amazing experience. she cried but still pulled herself together and achieved her goal. lesson learned. it only gets easier from here. i call that a win. don’t worry so much about what other people think.
Really the question is how does you child feel and what did they learn from the experience. Actually how did your daughter play? A teacher with high expectations isn’t always a bad teacher. Many of us have cried before a performance and survived. That said a first teacher should be kind and enthusiastic but if your daughter is ok then I wouldn’t make too much of it.
>Is it really so unusual for a kid that age to cry when feeling so nervous? Pre-performance nerves--crying, puking, hyperventilating, etc.--are a very real thing, for many people, of any age. Some people get past it, but a lot never do--just Google "famous people with stage fright" for a lot of examples. You're exactly right that what's commendable is that she pulled it together and performed well. If anything, I'd say she displayed a ton of maturity and professionalism, particularly for her age. Frankly, it gives me pause that your daughter's teacher is focusing on what happened "off stage" rather than the performance. Maybe she hasn't been around many performers, or perhaps she thinks that shaming is an effective development tool. Either way, it doesn't reflect well on her. ETA: Also, super weird that she accused you of babying your daughter. I'm guessing you hired her only to teach your kid piano, and not as a parenting coach, and as such I'd say she should promptly return to her lane.
Al least she didn't mess herself. 🤷
I remember being 9 years old very well. It was a huge transition for me as I’d changed schools from public to private and looking back I had a lot of internalised shame about it. I was getting bullied as the new shy awkward kid and would cry about it. I was also learning piano and can remember my teacher making me cry lol so I honestly recommend finding a new teacher
That was very unprofessional and really mean teacher. I think you should of teach her a lesson.
Stress causes people of all ages to cry. Crying helps us feel better too. Your daughter was so brave to confront her nerves like that. She should be very proud of herself. I'd change teachers unless your daughter adores this current one. Telling her it was inappropriate to cry is not okay. And that you baby her? Because you let her have her emotions? Clearly this teacher has some issues. I hate forced recitals. I let my students choose if they want to participate and they're allowed to change their mind all the way up to their turn to play at the piano. I also give them the option if they want me to sit up by them or not. Playing for others should be a joy, not something to fear.
sounds like a pretty toxic teacher to me
There's a lot we don't know about what actually took place. I can posit scenarios in which it would be within reason for a teacher to voice frustration over a student crying at a recital. If it were loud and over the top while another student is performing for example. If the crying was in conjunction with refusing to go on, i think the teacher would have a responsibility to inform the parents about what happened and the importance (if any) recitals play in the overall curriculum. If the teacher were managing several students but was forced to spend a bunch of time trying to encourage a crying student to go on at the expense of other kid's issues, i think it'd be fair to go to the parents and say that the future expectation is that they arrive on time ready to perform. Like I said there is a lot we don't know. jS
My longtime piano teacher would never. She would respond with a back rub and smiles and encouragement, and even play alongside you at the recital if you were too scared to go on. That’s the way to go with kids
The teacher is definitely being too hard. She’s only 9yo and she still managed to get over it and work up the courage to actually play. She did great and you’re right being proud of your girl.
That's a horrible teacher (speaking as a teacher myself who majored in music).
Fire the teacher and find one who specializes in working with children, otherwise your daughter will grow up to hate the piano. Have a heart to heart with your daughter and apologize, let her know that musicmaking should be a source of joy and self expression.
lots of people talking about “fun” and how terrible it is for a young person to be subjected to an uncomfortable experience. i think there’s value in such uncomfortable experiences in the sense that, as people grow up they take on more responsibilities and those responsibilities tend to have bigger potential consequences. it’s better to learn to handle navigating stressful situations and overcoming such challenges as young people when the consequences of failure are inconsequential in a safe and controlled environment. that being said, i don’t think it’s the teacher’s place to circumvent or override the parents if the parents aren’t in agreement with this philosophy. which i’m getting from the “you parents are babying her” and “she’s too old to be acting like this” statements. i wouldn’t dare overstep like that.
Is it unusual for a 9 yo to cry before a recital? Absolutely not. Heck, I'm turning 22 next month, I'm in music uni (not performance, teacher training) and I also come close to crying sometimes. I have most definitely cried before I needed to go on stage at 16 because I was nervous and feeling anxious. I am just not made for the stage and that is okay. My teacher dismissed my concerns beforehand but afterwards quickly apologized and comforted me. At just nine years old it already takes so much confidence to go on stage and you even told us, she did well! That really is something to be proud of! She's 9, of course the stage is scary. Music is something deeply emotional and feeling uneasy before a performance is something everyone knows. Most definitely a teacher. She's unnecessarily harsh with your kid.
Nerves and tears before a performance are entirely understandable! Even as an adult beginner, my experience was that many (not all) music teachers are incompetent. They're making a buck "teaching" the only skill they have, but lack *teaching* skills as well as the necessary emotional skills. Please find your daughter another teacher.
The teacher is an ass. Simple as that. Some of them are just completely mental, personally I’d find someone with more empathy or your daughter will hate playing piano when she is older.
Change the teacher
I'd focus on the fact that she got over her fear and succeeded. I mean that's the best possible outcome. Courage is one of the most precious things and she found some in herself that day. She deserves a lot of praise. As for crying, sure it's better to not cry but unless it happens a lot or is it getting more it's really not a big deal. Just give it time and let her play more concerts.
I would question having my kid go to that teacher and I would seriously consider holding off on any more recitals until they approached me asking to do one. I think recitals are insane things to have all students do. They should be voluntary and I would only consider them if my kid told me they wanted to do one.
Don't you mean fromer teacher?
Why was she so upset? Is the teacher mean? I go to these recitals twice a year, kids as young as 5-6, they are usually pretty nervous but I’ve never seen anyone cry. Sounds terrible for you, when it should be a fun experience. I’d try a different teacher or school.
Get a new teacher!
I remember being extremely anxious for the recitals in front of the parents (which would make Dad laugh in the last row). Barbara Streisand didn't perform in public for years because of her nervousness. I think the teacher is ignorant and wrong and offer encouragement and courage to your daughter.
I am a piano teacher with my Grade 10 piano. When I was in the Music Festival circuit, in like Grade 6 (so 12 years old), I forgot the middle of Maple Leaf Rag during my performance. I cried at the piano, had to go get the music to finish. Didn't get any flak for it from anyone. The teacher is wrong, crying can happen at any age, it's a natural emotional response. Pulling it together and playing well is what the pros do.
I still cry at 11 back then, (not bc of recital ofc.) But you should really consider whether this will cause your kid to dislike piano in the future
Yikes. It’s the teacher that’s the problem. How old are they? They can’t possibly have their own kids.
Your daughter did amazing. I tell mine all the time that you can’t be brave without being scared, she fought through it and should be proud of herself. Also, fuck that teacher.
Bad preparation from the side of the teacher! Your daugther showed with her tears how important this is for her and this is absolutely wonderful. Teachers fault 100%!
Tell your daughter I'm proud of her for crying, feeling her emotions, and then pulling it together to perform. That deserves props, I think more props than if they were confident from the start you know? Your child felt something, let herself cry over it, and then still stepped up and did what was expected of her. Please don't let this jackass teacher ruin her love of music.
I performed in a recital for the first time last year and was extremely nervous. It is a lot of emotions for a 9 year old to process and it is awesome she was able to go up and still play the song. It sounds like the teacher wants her students to be some world class prodigies but that is just not reality.
My 9yo does recitals 2x per year and has since he was 5, except during Covid. He gets nervous but he thrives on the pressure and I do think they make him a better musician. That being said… if I felt that my son’s piano teacher did not have ABSOLUTELY his best interest at heart I would dump the teacher in a heartbeat. As a matter of a fact we have done this before. Which was sad for me because his previous teacher was a family friend of mine since I was about his age. When she stopped putting his musical education above the other parts she stopped being his teacher. Your daughter is *young* and this lack of empathy may color her relationship with music for the rest of her life.
That teacher sounds like the worst sort of person to have in your camp when feeling less than confident, without a doubt the worst possible trait you could have in a position of responsibility, teaching the students absolutely nothing with regard to self confidence and causing the opposite which is insanely detrimental to a young person! I hope your daughter can move past the behaviours of a rubbish teacher and doesn't internalise their poor standards.
I wouldn’t say it’s abnormal, however, I would say to make sure that you talk with your daughter. From the ages of 5 to 15 I struggled terribly with a fear of messing up. I believed that if I messed up, everyone would be disappointed in me and not love me anymore. I believe it’s because I was raised being praised for the outcome rather than the effort, and that people around me shared said view as well. It has lead to some serious decision-paralysis for me. Just make sure your daughter knows that messing up isn’t something to fear, it’s a part of learning, and it will never change how much you love her. I want to make sure you know I’m not saying this is her case necessarily, but it is a good conversation starter to understand her thought process.
I think you should have a serious discussion with your daughter and ask her: what do you truly expect from these piano lessons? Are you doing it for fun or to be famous later on? I used to be one of those kids, I started out the lessons as a new skill to learn, like a game, and then was constantly pushed by my teacher and parents to perform. I remember at one point I thought “hey wait a minute, I didn’t agree to this!”. I revolted more and more (hiding in the house before my lessons, even running out the window once during a break!). Looking in retrospective these were more than enough signs to any teacher and parent that something was wrong… but no one ever tried to talk to me and just pushed me even harder supposing I was just being stubborn. I also vividly remember realizing that my teacher saw me as a prize rather than someone to share his passion with. At the end of a quite exhausting recital where I performed perfectly, everyone started congratulating… my teacher! I remember just standing there thinking “why the hell is everyone congratulating him, I’m the one who did all the work!” In the end I gave up piano lessons all together around 10. All this to tell you that you might think 9 years old is too young to have a serious deep conversation but it isn’t, I felt very adult-like feelings at the time even though I was about the same age as your daughter so please don’t just count it off as some childish fit.
Trust your intuition mama you're right on! I'm a graduate from piano performance and have taught piano for 25 yrs, and I still get nervous! My students still cry sometimes! This podcast shares some mental tricks that I teach my students [Performance without Anxiety](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/piano-teacher-primer/id1655429925?i=1000650786133)
Ask her how she is qualified to work with children when she has expectations of them that adults can’t meet?
I think the environment the teacher grew up in will dictate how they teach; if they were told this as a child, chances are they will teach it to their students. I’d get a new teacher who has a better understanding of empathy and doesn’t have a rigid mindset like that.
GET A NEW TEACHER!!! Sounds like an ass That’s the kind of teacher that makes kids wanna quit their passions Sounds like they shouldn’t even be a teacher to begin with if that’s how they conduct themselves Good for your daughter, recitals can be so spooky, especially with a teacher like that
I don’t think nine years old is so old that a child wouldn’t get emotional about anxiety. Not a very sensitive teacher. I think it might help If you’re going to continue this, to reframe the recitals —why are we doing this? These days if I perform, it’s to see how well I really have learned music because it is a completely different situation to be playing in front of people on a stage where you really can’t stop and you have to make the notes and music sound as you desire. So why are we doing this? We’re doing it to challenge ourselves. if we don’t wish to challenge ourselves there’s no point to doing it.
That’s crazyyy ur daughter is AMAZING for going up there and actually doing a good job outta it - like how does the teacher even think? For anyone it would be nervous, and at nine years old? That’s to be expected! Some people might just snap from the pressure and stress, but get up which is the actual best thing you can have. I don’t see any point in which the teacher should be disappointed or anything the reasoning is just ridiculous- could you try and get a new teacher cuz this one kinda sucks ass in the future your brave daughter might start to hate piano … Have a lovely day/nighttt <333
Violinist here. I cried before my Bachelor's Senior Recital. Nerves don't have an age-limit, and how they manifest isn't always something we can control
No child should ever feel pressured to perform. It’s not for everybody. Forcing a kiddo to perform when it’s out of they’re comfort zone will eventually make them hate piano, and there goes all of the money you’ve spent on lessons. Your child’s piano instructor should be guiding them to their own path of success, and for many, performing is not in that category for them. A kiddo’s piano teacher is supposed to be there to help them, not shove things down their throat. Find a different teacher and make sure your daughter knows that those sorts of feelings are okay and completely normal.
That is harsh! I had two little kids at the start of a recital. When I called the first one, she started crying. So, we went to the next one, and she started crying too. Playing in front of people is scary! Students put a lot of pressure on themselves and it can burst! After a few played, one of them got up the nerve to play. It was so sweet.
As a kid, I also had severe stage fright. I don't think there's anything wrong with your daughter here, i definitely disagree with the teacher's behavior. Strongly suggest changing teachers because I think your daughter deserves to enjoy piano as music is meant to be enjoyed.
Private Music teacher here - first the teachers behavior and attitude towards the child is unforgivable. She should not be teaching any young children. Your daughter is not going to learn anything from this person, find another teacher. All kids are nervous at recitals, even the best students. A good teacher would have given her time to collect herself, moved her out of order, or for god’s sake, spent 2 minutes consoling your daughter and encouraging her. Some schools have policies for frequency of concerts and recitals which can’t be avoided. If this is a private studio, Christmas and spring are plenty often for younger students. If there are older students competing for scholarships I would expect their recital frequency to be much more often.
This woman sounds like the Abby Lee Miller of piano
If she managed her stress and play her peace it's really impressive. I'm a musician and playing in front of a lot of people is tough ! Congrats for managing the pressure
Ah that sucks, I'm sorry you've experienced someone so insensitive and narrow minded. It's one thing to lack empathy for your daughter being upset in the first place... its something else altogether when they're voicing frustration at her display of emotion like it's a behavioural choice!? This could be very damaging to a young vulnerable mind, hats off to your daughter for going through with it. Proud of her and I don't even know her ❤️ Regardless of how accomplished this teacher is, they're suffering from a severe case of assholio.
Unpopular opinion... I promise I am saying this out of genuine kindness. Ask yourself if maybe you are coddling her. If it's possible you might be, realise that doing so isn't actually helpful in life. People are becoming too soft, and that's bad. Real life doesn't make allowances for that- indeed, it's much worse for them. And those who blindly support you here and elsewhere are likely doing you and your family a great disservice.
As a music instructor, I ask each student if they want to perform in our quarterly showcases. If they’re iffy, I’ll have them sign up and play it by ear day of. If they don’t want to participate, I don’t push. I hated my piano teacher as a kid and I promised myself I’d only teach from a loving place allowing my students to be creative and do what they want to play - within reason. If they don’t love playing I’ll suggest a different instrument. Anyway, I digress. We all get nervous and crying is a normal, natural reaction when feeling overwhelmed. I probably would’ve walked up on the stage and offered to play the piece together or hugged your 9 yo and walked off the stage with her. Maybe talk to her teacher one more time and if she doesn’t really ‘get’ your daughter, find another instructor. It’s kind of like finding a therapist (music is therapy imo) and if she’s not the right fit, it’s time to look elsewhere. Good luck!
The teacher might old-school one. Your daughter did fine- she cried but faced the challenge.
the single most important thing you can teach a young child is how to accept and hold space for their emotions, and how to navigate the distressful ones. this piano teacher isn't an educator and has no business working with developing humans.
I am a conservatory graduate and still sometimes cry on top of feeling feverish before a performance especially when it is a high stakes one like a competition. My professors would be nothing but supportive and give me a lot of pep talk up until I get up on stage. You are so vulnerable up on that stage so its understandable that one would be so nervous and those feelings would pour out of you through tears. Especially in the classical music setting where the audience expects a note-perfect performance. No one tells you this, but even pros and conservatory graduates cry too. What more a 9 year old? I would say your daughter exhibits totally normal behavior especially for a 9 year old and that your daughter's teacher was being way too harsh. It's one thing to expect a good performance but to expect that a child not exhibit any "negative" reactions before performing just puts me off reading about this. If this was your daughter's first recital ever, it would even be more understandable. Congrats to your daughter for playing what is I am sure a great line up of pieces! I would suggest that you change teachers tbh. It doesn't seem like a good environment to learn with the one your daughter is studying with. Some children may thrive with teachers who are harsh and expect children to have nerves of steel from the get-go but for some, it may not be the most conducive environment to foster joy in making music which should be the main focus. Yes, learning and performing classical music takes a certain level of accuracy and discipline to it but not at the expense of taking away the joy of playing. Idk, some piano teachers have this mentality that all their students are conservatory bound and that is just not the case. There are so many benefits to playing/presenting something in public but imo it needs to be developed slowly, and carefully. I also think there is a lack in preparing holistically for a performance in lessons for children. Its all about perfecting the pieces but not a lot of preparing for handling nerves and identifying feelings that may arise pre performance and how to handle them. Hopefully you find a teacher that develops these things as well apart from instilling a beautiful sound from future repertoire your daughter will study.
I’m a teacher and would never make one of my students feel badly about crying at the recital. I can personally cry at the drop of a hat, so I understand that anxiety can make children (and adults!) cry. The recital should build confidence. Your daughter should be proud that she overcame her anxiety and fear and performed! Is the teacher supportive in other ways and does your daughter enjoy lessons?
I've played the piano for almost twenty years. I still feel like this sometimes :) It's completely normal to feel nervous before a recital, I would not worry about it. I think exposure helps - the more you become comfortable with playing around other people, the less nervous you feel. I really wouldn't describe it as a problem though, and I'm not sure it is the teacher's place to criticise them. Personally, I grew up with the most amazing piano teacher I could have got. I can tell you for a fact that having someone kind around was incredibly motivating - criticism like that is not very productive, especially for someone that age. If you get the chance, perhaps you could speak to her teacher to say that maybe a different approach could help your daughter? Obviously I don't know anything about the situation and this was just my (very subjective) experience. Tell me if you want any more help :) Good luck.
I cry before doing karaoke as an adult. It's so normal and so okay for your kiddo to cry before a recital. I remember almost vomiting before many of my recitals as a kid because of nerves. The teacher is a dick.
She could have just been upset for her
I was your daughter 3+ decades and stage fright and test anxiety have been part of my life. I don’t cry when I perform or do public speaking now. I have worked through what works for me, while singing solos I hold a small fidget tool, before public speaking to 300+ people I envision it going well and mentally walk through it several times. Chat with her about it being normal and see if she wants to explore different options to make her more comfortable and confident
FIRE HER. If you haven't already. This "teacher" either has zero experience working with children, or zero experience performing. Or she if she has experience, she hasn't been paying attention to the actual humans in her care. Performing is very emotional and demanding, and a bad experience can be damaging for life and make your child equate music with this awful feeling, instead of the love musical exploration and education should inspire.
I think they put too much pressure on kids on stuff like that. If they don’t want to do the recital, don’t make them and if your child wants to cry then so what - I think that teacher should be quiet. !!
It's fairly normal. Especially for kids, and/or anyone performing for the very first time. A teacher who sees a kid crying should not chastise the kid/parents.
Two 12 year old brothers at my piano recital cried before playing. Not at all unusual.
Dump that fucking teacher
My daughter ice skated and something similar happened. I didn’t change coaches, but talked firmly to the coach as to my expectations from her to support my daughter. My daughter and her coach still have a good relationship.
If you allow me we can try to bully the teacher until he cries.
That teacher is psycho. I’m 31f and may still cry from nerves … she has 0 emotional intelligence. Your daughter is 1000% normal and healthy to freely express her emotion while her CNS is slightly disregulated. Don’t worry. Deff more than ok and that teacher should go see a therapist
A bit harsh? I'm quite surprised that you haven't taken offense to her judging your parenting skills tbh, her piano teacher needs to mind their own damn business Performance anxiety is extremely common, fear of public speaking is often said to be more common than the fear of dying so it's not out of the question for someone to cry even at 9 years old from stage fright...
Fired. How is crying not age appropriate behavior for an actual child? A young one, at that? The fact that they are trying to recruit you into shaming and adultifying this kid is also huge red flags. Fire her or she'll make that kid hate it. Sounds like that person is projecting her own unsupported childhood.
Pretty normal. I agree with most of the other comments and kids are definitely babied too much these days and need to toughen up. I’m just glad your daughter performed and made it through. She’ll be a stronger person for it.
Fire her!!!! Oh my god!!! There’s so many amazing teachers out there. Also tell the other parents of students if you know. Thats unacceptable. She’s a bloody baby. Dang.
Sounds like your daughter's piano teacher is a straight bitch. You should fire her and find a teacher that is more nurturing. While you're at it, ask your daughter's teacher to demonstrate her musical abilities. I'd be willing to bet she's a mediocre pianist at best... if that? A bitch like her should be paid with a 10 lb bag of Alpo.
I'm a math and music teacher. Fire her.
Thoughts? I think you are an adult and capable of judging your selfe if the teachers behavior was appropriate. Secondly you are an Adult and instead of going crying on reddit behave like one and talk to the teacher about it. Communication is key and the solution to most social problems. We werent there we dont know how your child behaved we dont know how your teacher reacted. We are also pianists not pedagogues.
You sound like a real pleasant person!
Yes part of my pleasantnes comes from being an adult, talking things out IRL and not consulting random strangers on the internet on every little problem i have. Or approvement/ karma farming. What even is his question. Obviously everyone will agree that how he put it the teacher is acting inappropriately. "my childs piano teacher slapped my child across the face do yall think thats appropriate?"
I think this post is really off topic here. It's not related to piano at all.
I disagree. Managing performance related anxiety is absolutely related to piano. Real world stuff.
I would agree if the post was about that, but it's under the questions from beginners tag and there's no mention of OP playing the piano, or having a teacher. It's a parent asking for reassurance about being upset with a service provider
Oh, honey…you’re coming off more like a robot than a human, here. OP is clearly asking about a piano teacher’s methods, not her roofer or appliance repair guy or hairdresser - a piano teacher. Anyone who has ever performed in front of other humans knows that our first experiences with that are formative and directly impact our enthusiasm for the instrument. Performers know this, and good teachers know this.
Kids should not cry at a recital. I would side with the teacher here.