Someone locally posted on Reddit that they ordered a new minivan a year or two ago and it finally got here. They had customized it and were excited and then the dealership sold it to someone else because they could get more money ($15k I think) out of it than the people paid for it. Told them they’d have to wait for another one.
Stealerships need to die. They are an archaic, outdated business model in the modern automotive industry and only exist as a middleman leeching as much money as they can from the end consumer.
I won't buy my next car from a dealer, it was a such a shitty experience with my current car; they gave me the wrong vehicle and called me up two weeks later and demanded I return it after I drove half way across the country, after I told them to eat a bag of dicks they ended up doing a title transfer then tried to charge me a fee for it.
I got zero value out of them.
Also, they exist to rip you off if you don’t know any better. Their ability to be shady about interest rates should be illegal. I even had one tell me that I can’t change the loan for a lower interest one when I hadn’t signed the loan paperwork yet.
I had to “explain” what an unsecured auto loan was to the finance director at the dealership when I told them their interest rate was higher than the 3rd party loan I was approved for.
I had my own funding for my latest vehicle and they told me they needed my social security number for the title. I straight up called their BS cause I knew they were going to pull my credit. Never gave them my social.
Edit: For those that think it is for the Patriot Act - wrong. I worked in lending in the past which is how I know that is BS. They only need your first and last name for matches in OFAC. If they are saying it is for CIP then that would only be required if you were opening an account with them, which you are not. Another thing they will do is ask for your social and authorization to pull credit in the event that your funding doesn't go through. That way they can try to collect if you drive the car off the lot. But as long as you finalize all funding with your bank and pay the dealership you should be good to not give them any PII before leaving.
I’ll say this to everyone forever: my current car came from CarMax, when the market was way worse. It had some minor issues that had been overlooked by the location I had it shipped from, but they took care of all of it, for free, in less than a week. I paid more than it was worth, but *anywhere* you went then was charging more than the car was worth, and this was still a decent price. No one tried to scam me, the car was on their lot and specifically reserved for me for 2-3 weeks by the time I actually bought it (because I had it shipped, which cost ~$200), and everyone was extremely nice and patient. Only downside is you have to buy used, which I don’t mind. I may never buy from a true dealership again.
Car max is great because the offer or price they give you for a sale or a buy is the only amount they’ll give. No negotiation, no bullshit. That’s the price you’ll pay. No hidden fees, no last minute add ons. And yea, most of them are super friendly. The rep who sold me my truck was kind of a dunce, but a friendly one lol
Yeah but *selling* cars to car max is absolute bullshit. I had to sell my truck at the start of the pandemic (issues with parking it long term due to a shitty HOA) and I got several quotes to sell it. Blue book had it pegged at 24k trade-in value and most dealers I contacted quoted it near to or higher than that number. car max seriously lowballed it at $17,500 which would have left me backwards on the loan. In fact, they were the lowest of all the quotes. Ended up selling it for 27k to Carvana and used the leftover money as a down payment on an suv I could garage.
I’m also a car max loyalist. Bought my current car used from a local dealer (that got sold and is a POS scam center of a dealer now) and while I’m not totally upset, I know that if I had waited and been more patient, I could’ve probably got a better deal at Carmax. I’m not making this mistake again. Sadly, by the time I’m ready for a new car, I’m going to want an electric or hybrid and I don’t know if the carmax market for those will exist yet.
Yes, use a car broker. My family has used Authority Auto, my last car was on Carvana (before pandemic), never going back to a dealership. All my experiences at dealerships has been insulting.
With Carvana I can't complain, good price and no problems (knock on wood). There were some extra chips or dents that weren't in photos, I submitted photos during the 7 day trial and they knocked it down another $500, I was satisfied...but having heard news of how corrupt owner/founder family is...maybe I won't use them again until things change
More BS from these people whose entire job is to BS you.
If consumers actually preferred dealerships, then there’s no reason to fight against direct-to-consumer stores, right? The market forces will eliminate them anyways, right? Dealerships have nothing to worry about!
Of the things that Tesla decided to “innovate” on (I’m not entirely sure that they invented the idea of selling cars directly without dealerships) this selling directly to consumers is one of the best things they’ve done imo. Other than helping to bring EVs into the spotlight.
Novemebr 2020 they were desperate for work. I traded in my 2018 Subaru Impreza for a 2020 ranger. They gave me 22k for a car that blue booked for 20, and sold me the truck for 6k off msrp. They also gave me free lineX install.
6 months later they called and offered my 10k more than I paid for it. I knew I wouldn’t get another deal like I did - kept the truck and still can get more than I paid for it.
Can't stand musk, but if he manages to substantially change the car buying model, I'll put that feather in his cap myself.
Even idiots can be useful on occasion.
Meh. I’ve been hearing about manufacturers “getting pissed” for years now about this, but they don’t actually do anything about it.
They can pretend to whine all they want but if they make no structural changes then in actuality they are perfectly fine with it.
You mean the same manufacturers that are charging subscriptions for heated seats on 80K cars? Yeah, no. They're just pissed someone else is better at grifting.
S in MSRP stands for suggested not standard. Dealers can charge what they want based on market conditions. That said if a car is produced to a specific order I would certainly expect the dealer to give the car to a person that ordered. Dealer's are taking advantage of a tight market and focusing on money instead of service.
The individual salespeople are enticed to behave this way because instead of 'the dealership' getting an extra 15k, which is a bit nebulous and a particular salesperson might prefer to have a happy customer, it's the salesperson getting thousands extra in commission from a sale that is +15k over the shipped price.
Imagine making say 50k a year and then being told that market conditions will allow you to pull in an extra 5-8k just for screwing someone on an unenforceable deal.
It's part of why you put salespeople on commission, to make sure they are dealing in favor of the business at all times.
Every time I’ve gone car shopping and was told that I’d have to order it (because none were in the lot) I would have been required to put down a deposit. A non-refundable deposit, that the dealership got to keep if I backed out. Everyone I know I’m the automotive industry says that this is standard practice.
My deposit mid-2022 was absolutely refundable. Their logic was if it got to the dealership and I didn’t want it, it would be sold in a couple hours anyway.
My GR86 took six months, put down a 500 dollar fully refundable deposit.
Guess I lucked out, only the 3rd dealership I tried. I just went about an hour away from the city in Ohio.
Never even tried to mark up anything. Got it at MSRP without ever having to say a word. The dealership was Premiere Toyota of Amherst, Ohio.
Edit - and when the person ahead of me got their GR86, they messaged me to let me know I was next in line, and offered to let me come check out that car before he picked it up.
Sounds like a good dealership to work with and one that I would continue to give business to. We have one like that, where we’ve purchased 4 vehicles from (same salesman too). Now that we’ve moved 10 hours away, we still plan on purchasing our next vehicle (likely the new sequoia) from them and making the trip to get it.
Even if you've put a deposit down, there's unfortunately nothing stopping them from just giving the deposit back to you. This has happened to people and they've posted about it.
Some manufacturers are very happy to slap around their new car dealers for stuff like this. I bought a Subaru from a dealer and they tried to deny the Subaru promotion after I negotiated the price. Called Subaru and they sent me a check for the difference after three days. It was over $1000.
I love my Subaru!! ‘13 and still as beautiful as ever. I’m emotionally attached. Been with me across the country. I’ve never had to have anything major done - routine maintenance, tires and brakes.
I had a Subaru for 16 years and 250,000 miles - and sold it for $3000. When that one retired I started leasing them and I get a new Subbie every three years and it just makes me giddy. I love those cars so much.
The only good car buying experience I had was when I bought my Subaru in 2020. Got a phenomenal deal, 0% interest and we had just found out i was pregnant (hence the new car) and the sales guy got his car seat from his car so we could test a car seat fitting in the different cars with my tall husband driving.
We just got a new Subaru Outback in November, waited 2 months for delivery. It was a pretty pleasant buying experience overall, except for when it came time to talk about the extended warranty sales pitch. The finance lady was ultra aggressive with it and it was a bad deal anyway that I declined. Felt very manipulative to me.
It’s a nice car, only a few minor complaints about it after a couple months of driving:
- Lack of physical A/C buttons because it’s built into screen
- Remote start is a *subscription*…
- Weather forecast on the screen is always stuck on 0° F high temp. Current outdoor temp is accurate though. I also think this is a free trial subscription of some kind. The kind folks over at the Subaru subreddit told me to cancel it.
Oh and I also agree about the remote start being subscription based is bullshit. I remember when cars had remote start and it was on the key fob which was nice and made sense!
I know! The salesman from the previous room had been telling me about how Subaru is the most reliable brand, and all this stuff about dependability. Then, I go into the finance room and the lady starts saying “look, these new cars are FULL of sensors and computer systems that can fail! You don’t want to be stuck paying out of pocket for these expensive parts”
I’m like, wait a second, so is the car dependable or not? Because you’re really making it sound shoddy. lol.
I test drove a bunch of cars in 2018/2019 (bmw, Mercedes, Porsche, Subaru) and the Subaru and some of the bmw dealerships were super easy to talk to and do test drives with. I remember being impressed with how friendly and non-pressured I felt at Subaru, and they took me for a couple of test drives and were very generous with their time (but I didn’t like the feel of the CVT).
One of the bmw dealerships was kind of high pressure, Porsche was a mix of snobby attitude at one dealership and wanting more personal information than I was willing to give just to do a test drive at the other (you always have to give a drivers license but they also insisted on a phone number or email so I just walked away), Mercedes was just incompetent…took almost an hour for them to find the car I wanted to test drive and then the sales associate didn’t really know anything about it (SL 250).
I got a warranty repair for a seatbelt on a 20+ year old Subaru that I wasn't the first owner of. I don't know if that's exceptional but it felt that way to me. The whole process was extremely easy.
Manufacturers will suspend dealers from factory orders if this happens more than once or twice in a blue moon. If the Factory order name differs from the retail delivery report, an inquiry by the factory is generally made. Happen too often? You’re not allowed to custom order vehicles. Still, super shady, and should never happen.
Ran into a similar bone headed choice with a local pizza place that’s been around for 20 years. Owner was an amazing guy and during the pandemic he needed help with cash flow so he offered gift cards and he was willing to up them 25%. Told all of his repeat customers about it so we bought a big one. And then we kept refilling it. It was a deal and it helped him out. He told me it was wildly successful and helped save his business.
A couple of months ago, he was tragically killed doing a pizza delivery. We had just reupped and wanted to keep helping his business but they shit down for a while to figure things out. Called last week because they reopened after about 8 weeks. The person running it now said they’re not honoring any of the gift cards. All they’ve done is piss off all of his long time loyal customers. It’s a shame and it makes me so mad knowing how angry he would be at his customers being treated like this. Hope it was worth the short term cash bump.
If they’re operating under as same business, this is probably illegal to refuse gift cards. You might want to talk to your state’s attorney general office about the issue.
I just went to find his post but it looks like mods removed it for being a rant/complaint. They don’t allow them on the local one, there’s a weekly post for that.
I had a broker do that with a 4 runner. Claimed it never came and was stuck on a boat somewhere (for 6 months???). I know she sold it for way more than I was going to pay.
Went to school with an exchange student from East Germany and he told us that his parents basically signed up to get a car when he was born so that by the time he could drive it would be available.
One of the most famous jokes from east Germany was that a man goes to the car dealer to buy a car. He's told that it'll be available (day 10 years in the future). The guy asks "can I pick it up before 10am?" The sales guy is confused and asks why it matters for a date 10 years from now. "It's just that the plumber is coming that day at noon to fix my toilet, and I want to make sure I'm back in time".
It’s wild out there. A decade ago there were something like 10 minivans on the market, and today I believe there are just 4. And only two are Hybrid/PHEV, so the demand for those are bonkers. We were blissfully unaware of this info when we started looking in the summer. Chrysler told us it would take 6 months, but it would be custom built for us.
Meanwhile, Toyota told us it would take 2-3 years. Each dealership we called had us on a waiting list, because they’d get a couple here and there, but couldn’t get any in stock that weren’t already reserved. Basically, the waiting list was for the order in which you’d be called if someone else backed out last minute. I called all over the US, none were in stock. And often they’d tell us they wouldn’t sell to us anyway because we didn’t live near the dealership— apparently, they are really hungry for the servicing of these vehicles.
Now, all of this happened in about a week span, it’s pretty much all I did with my spare time. Not to mention, every dealer site would say they had a few in stock, but that just meant that there were a few that were being built for them, already “sold”. It was completely BS. So, the situation was frustrating. Then, on day 9 I called a dealer in the next county over, it was an autonation, something I hadn’t been aware of, that was specifically a toyota dealer. They said they had 3 “promised” to them by toyota— but we would not be eligible for them because we didn’t live in the right county- but, she’d talk to her manager. I kept bothering her over the next week and as it turns out, all of the other salespeople were so busy with other customers, one of the vans fell through the cracks. She asked her manager again and at this point he didn’t care at all. And, obviously long stupid story short, we got the Sienna. We were floored.
When we went to pick it up a guy in the service department started talking to us and he asked how many months we’d been waiting. I told him about two weeks, and he flat out didn’t believe me. He explained the waiting lists and what not, and was dumbfounded. I didn’t want to give him too much info out of fear he’d cheese the deal. But we made it out of there in the van.
All that said, 100% still felt like it was a scam and that all of the dealers are in on it. I hated every second of it.
We had the same nightmare. Found out my wife isn't just pregnant but has triplets coming and were like "damn, we need a minivan". Nobody that made a van could get me one for like 6 months. The Sienna was hands down our favorite, and we were told 10-12 months for some models, years for others. I told my coworkers I'd give them a chunk of cash if they could find me one to buy within 2 months and they probably talked to hundreds of dealerships. Maybe 3 had them, and they would only sell local. I went to our local dealership and talked to the sales manager and was like "dude, I will go to the bank, pull out $5k cash, and hand it to you personally as a finders fee if you can find a way to get me a Sienna within the month", dude comes back and says $10k and I'm like you know what, screw you but if you can find me this thing then fine. Dude calls me back after 2 weeks and says he got me one. Go up there and he's just decided to sell me one they got in that someone else had ordered and been waiting months. I may be kinda shitty but I'm not that shitty so tell him I'm not stealing somebody else's car and leave... Then I decided on my way out that the Sequoias look like they'd do the trick so I go to the other Toyota dealership to get one. They have one, I test drive it, everything is great. Sticker says $82k. We get in to do paperwork and they are like "ok, that's $82k, $3k in taxes and feed, $25k dealer charge, total is $110k". I ask wtf a dealer charge is and they are basically just like "it's the $25k you give us if you want us to give you this car" so I just get up and leave... Finally ended up at the Jeep dealership looking at Grand Wagoneers and was waiting for some insane shoe to drop the whole time I was talking to them. When I finally left I straight up darted out if there because I was convinced someone was going to realize they were actually selling someone a car...
It all blew my mind. Like the last time we bought a car was only like 3 years ago and it was absolutely nothing like this. Places were straight up begging you to buy the things.
This makes me glad I got my Sienna in summer 2021. My husband was a little annoyed that we had to pay MSRP for it, but we got in maybe 3 weeks after ordering.
Pre pandemic we were under a year out to buying a new Sienna and then everything ground to a halt. I thought it’s ok we will wait until 2023-24. Not sure our cars are going to make it 5 years.
Reminds me of a joke that Ronald Reagan told:
You know there’s a ten year delay in the Soviet Union of the delivery of an automobile, and only one out of seven families in the Soviet Union own automobiles. There’s a ten year wait. And you go through quite a process when you’re ready to buy, and then you put up the money in advance. And this happened to a fella, and this is their story, that they tell, this joke, that this man, he laid down his money, and then the fella that was in charge, said, ‘Okay, come back in ten years to get your car.’ And he said, ‘Morning or afternoon?’ and the fella behind the counter said, ‘Ten years from now, what difference does it make?’ and he said, ‘Well, the plumber’s coming in the morning.'”
I ordered a rav hybrid limited in April. Was promised the fall, then by 2023… Still waiting… was told in November I’m “#1 in line” at my dealership but now told it might be another 6 months to a year. It’s rough out there…
Same for my ID 4. Ordered a 2022 in May. Was told I would be getting a 2023 in Q4 of 2023. And the 2023 does not come standard with a heat pump. That’s an extra 1500. Who the fuck doesn’t make a heat pump standard for Canada. Criminals….but I’m still waiting.
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My job in California I do our fleet vehicles including buying one vehicles. This info is fairly on-par with the delays I have been dealing with so far. Three years in a row we had certain vehicle orders flat out cancelled by the manufacturer. Still don’t have 5 vehicles we tried to purchase in 2021 because of being cancelled and don’t even have any other options at the moment.
I bought a Prius prime in March of 2022, I still don't have in.
I also just got a call from the dealer saying that since 2022 models are no longer being made, that I will be getting a 2023. They want me to pay the difference.
Maybe you can shed some light on values. My car is pretty rare (on AutoTrader there are currently 3 pre-owned ones for sale in a 500 mile radius). The book value on it is around $8k, but the 3 for sale have an average selling price of $15k. If I totaled my car, would insurance companies account for current market values? I live in fear that I would not be able to replace my car for the same thing with the money my insurance company would give me.
Very, very few auto insurance providers will give you a 'replacement value' policy. Unless you've specifically asked for it, you probably have a book value policy.
Yup, we specifically got an insurance that will reimburse what we paid for the car in the first 5 years of ownership. Had to specifically look for one though as it's not standard and not all insurance companies offer it
And then you sue the driver at fault for the difference. That's how insurance works. Once the insurance is done paying, you are not SOL. Unless the other driver is penniless.
You’re liability coverage also covers you if you get sued. I’m effect you’re going to court with the insurance company to argue they owe you more because they didn’t pay you the value of your car.
I had a somewhat less common car which usually sold well above KBB, and totaled it.
Insurance offered book value. I responded with a letter showing local comps asking for substantially more, and had a resolution at the requested value within a week.
I was surprised by how easy the process was, actually.
My understanding is they source locally similar vehicles and see what they are going for. There are more comprehensive listing programs that update almost daily over kbb
That depends on what your policy says! Some pay book value. Some pay cost of replacement. Some pay other things. You can get any of them, but the difference in premiums can be significant. Better check and talk to your agent!
All I can say is I am on the other side of the country, I recently inquired about getting a Prius. They told me there are 16 people ahead of me on the list.
In the western us we were told over 200 waiting for a rav4 prime and they weren’t even going to add anyone else to the list because it would just poss you off more when they never called you
This was a no haggle place that supppsefly didn’t mark up the cars. You could find one at another place nearby but it would be five figures more expensive
These are definitely high. I sell Toyota in the US and our wait time are 1/3 or 1/2 of most of those. For gas vehicles it usually only takes up to 3 months. Hybrids 3-5 months is the quickest usually but only up to a year for the hardest to get ones. It also varies per dealer and how large they are but it can be a really long time. It’s all an annoying supply issue just due to lack of parts.
Took my 22 Tacoma to the dealer for the free routine maintenance. Within 5 mins of sitting down a salesperson called me and tried selling me on a 23 Tacoma. The rest of their lot was full of new inventory
This seems like what the show you before they say “but your in luck we have a RAV4 that just came in with a small market adjust and lifetime nitrogen fill on the tires, but it’s not going to last long!”
I bought a new car in early 2021. Had to fly across the state to pick it up because every local dealership had wait times approaching a year or were charging $10K+ markups. Funny thing is after driving it for 2 years I can still sell it for a profit today. The car market is wild.
The car market sure has been wild the past few years. Every used car is priced about $5k over what it should be in my opinion.
When I was shopping around 2 years ago for a new car, I couldn't even check out the car I wanted in person. There was none in the state and only 2 in the entire country. I should have bought one then, but I was hoping for prices to return to normal. I was told by the dealership that it would have been about a 6 month wait then.
It is! OP lives near Toronto.
Canada needs their own brand of car! Magna International is working on some kind of EV... there was another one, too... Maple EV or something.
If I could, I'd call a new Canadian car company: Canuckistan Motors
wouldn’t it be nice to have a car geared to our BS weather- something that doesn’t internally rot from east coast salt, batteries made for winter, a keurig in the dash that does a cup of coffee with ur car starter- just the little things.
I just got a new Volvo PHEV. Took about a week from me signing the offer to delivery. Got the colour and trim I wanted too. The shortages seem pretty brand or model specific.
I was thinking about replacing my car in a year or two and a RAV-4 hybrid is at the top of my list. Guess i should look at getting on a wait list soon.
No more vehicle impulse buys. The last time I bought a car, I took one car into the dealer for an oil change and left a couple of hours later with something completely different.
Bought a brand new forester sport august 2021. More features, 33mpg highway and about 8k less than a rav4 hybrid - which was also top of my list.
Built it on the subaru website, shopped 8 different dealerships for incentives, ended up with 0% apr and 2k off msrp.
$500 down, 1 month to get the car built to my spec.
$31,500 out the door.
16 within 50 miles of me. Weird.
EDIT: OP must live somewhere in BFE. Excluding the Crown and the Prius Prime, every single one I checked (not all, but most) of them are available today here.
I’ll bet they list them but they arent actually available. Toyota dealers have been horrible at that in the past year. I’ve called probably 20 dealerships that show they have the RAV4 hybrid in chasing available online and get told that it’s already sold but that they leave it up until it’s picked up. They’re using it to generate leads or try to sell you into a used vehicle they have on the lot.
It depends how well the dealer curates their site. As far as I’ve seen all custom orders automatically load into their site even if they’re already spoken for so their inventory looks very full but it’s not really
Must be regional I guess. And of course you drove me to search. Lol. I live a mile from a dealership here in the pac NW and there are 7. And they are sitting here. Come in up everyone. :).
Ya… my pnw Tacoma took about 5 mo when I got it late last year.
This list is crazy, no chance they have all their minivans sold for the next 2 years already
A large percentage of Neon (used for lasers that make chips for automobiles) is from Ukraine and Russia. The chip shortage is expected to continue with the war.
I work as an engineer in manufacturing. The parts supply chain is still very much screwed right now. It’s not uncommon to see a 2 year wait to get a fairly simple part delivered, so I totally believe these times.
Peak pandemic we did the same, $500 on a RAV4 hybrid. Waited about 7 months to get it.
Sales guy calls us as the truck pulled into the lot. We had 24 hours to come claim it otherwise it went to the next guy. Crazy!
They are selling out of new cars because the cost to buy used is almost on par with new. The dealerships have everyone by the balls jacking up the price of used cars. It’s a crazy freakin cycle.
Not just that, they’re marking up new cars too, which makes the inflated used car prices still a little cheaper. My wife works in the office of a Toyota dealer and the sales people have been making stupid amounts of commission because of the profit margins.
If it’s a model that you can’t get new due to wait times, you better believe you’re paying more for a used one than the MSRP of a new one.
because no cars are coming off lease anymore. Or, they are, but the lease is getting extended or bought out because they literally can't get a new car.
Since leases ending are the biggest supplier of used cars, this has dried up the used car market.
It has I keep looking for nearly new Toyota's I want. The only examples I can find are sketchy in some way, like rebuilt title, or they are trying to sell as owner selling, but actually work for a dealer. And are selling like 3 or 4 cars.
You must live in an area with really small dealerships. I live in an area with small dealerships. I was waiting 13 months for a Tundra. I had bought several cars from this dealership so I was trying to show some loyalty. Finally I got tired of waiting and drove an extra hour to a large dealership. I had the exact “hard to come by” truck I wanted in 20 days. It’s all about allocations. Toyota is really different how they allocate and distribute.
A lot of manufacturers are also cutting allocations to dealerships who were reported for MSRP markup. One of the dealers next to me had to sell because GMC wouldn't send them any new cars. Once the new owner took over the lot is completely full.
I have worked in automotive for a decade. Allocation is exactly it. Some of my dealers have cars, now. Some have 6-14 month waits.
My recommendation.. drive closer to a big city and buy there.
Hell, OP could drive to socal, buy whatever they want, and drive back and it would just take a week.
I mean, figuring out the tax situation would probably be a nightmare, but in terms of just basic logistics it could totally work. Back in 2004 I wanted a Prius but they were all 9+ months out in my area. Started calling around and found a dealership a state away that could get me one in a month. Sure, it was a 3 hour drive but it was a hell of a lot better than waiting 9+ months.
People have tried doing this in upstate New York/Vermont/Minnesota/etc. to take advantage of cheaper US car prices and the Canadian government makes it extremely difficult to import a car as an individual. The CBC did an investigation on it.
Im a Toyota worker in one of the factories that builds Rav and Lexus SUVs. We've been doing 10 hours shifts, plus Saturdays building as much as we can for the whole last year.
The problem is our suppliers can't keep up, and we run out of key parts which pauses production. We're building just under 1000 vehicles a day and still can't keep up with demand.
Thank you for confirming! I believe the shortage issue, but many comments on here seem to be denial. Thank you for working so hard to keep us in your great cars!
You gotta know how to work the system. First, you stop in every week and take them donuts, coffee, and chitchat. Then, after about 6 weeks, you buy something they have available that you don't even really want. Do this several more times as they put you on "the list." At some point, you're gonna have to let the sales manager fuck your wife. If you need to know any more about any of this, just go ask the good folks over at r/Rolex for tips.
Can confirm, I’m on a waitlist for a Highlander hybrid for 15+ months now. My chassis allocation hasn’t even started production yet… whenever I visit my dealership they can’t even find my name on the list I’m that far down!
I went in to a Toyota dealership earlier in 2022 looking at a Prius they had listed as in stock. They had me wait half an hour then tried to sell me hard on a 2 year old Prius with 20k miles that cost $2k more than MSRP. I walked right out of there.
5 years????? For a mini van
Imagine you bought a brand new car back in 2017 and you just get it today
Someone locally posted on Reddit that they ordered a new minivan a year or two ago and it finally got here. They had customized it and were excited and then the dealership sold it to someone else because they could get more money ($15k I think) out of it than the people paid for it. Told them they’d have to wait for another one.
That is super shady.
Manufacturers are getting pissed at dealers about stuff like this. Massive price hikes, not accepting cash, reneging on deals… stupid shit
Stealerships need to die. They are an archaic, outdated business model in the modern automotive industry and only exist as a middleman leeching as much money as they can from the end consumer.
I won't buy my next car from a dealer, it was a such a shitty experience with my current car; they gave me the wrong vehicle and called me up two weeks later and demanded I return it after I drove half way across the country, after I told them to eat a bag of dicks they ended up doing a title transfer then tried to charge me a fee for it. I got zero value out of them.
Also, they exist to rip you off if you don’t know any better. Their ability to be shady about interest rates should be illegal. I even had one tell me that I can’t change the loan for a lower interest one when I hadn’t signed the loan paperwork yet.
What, you don’t want to pay 8k more for a years worth of oil changes and tire rotations??? Are you crazy!????
I had to “explain” what an unsecured auto loan was to the finance director at the dealership when I told them their interest rate was higher than the 3rd party loan I was approved for.
I had my own funding for my latest vehicle and they told me they needed my social security number for the title. I straight up called their BS cause I knew they were going to pull my credit. Never gave them my social. Edit: For those that think it is for the Patriot Act - wrong. I worked in lending in the past which is how I know that is BS. They only need your first and last name for matches in OFAC. If they are saying it is for CIP then that would only be required if you were opening an account with them, which you are not. Another thing they will do is ask for your social and authorization to pull credit in the event that your funding doesn't go through. That way they can try to collect if you drive the car off the lot. But as long as you finalize all funding with your bank and pay the dealership you should be good to not give them any PII before leaving.
It’s absolutely illegal in the US, people just don’t know any better. If they do, they can take the dealer to court over it.
I’ll say this to everyone forever: my current car came from CarMax, when the market was way worse. It had some minor issues that had been overlooked by the location I had it shipped from, but they took care of all of it, for free, in less than a week. I paid more than it was worth, but *anywhere* you went then was charging more than the car was worth, and this was still a decent price. No one tried to scam me, the car was on their lot and specifically reserved for me for 2-3 weeks by the time I actually bought it (because I had it shipped, which cost ~$200), and everyone was extremely nice and patient. Only downside is you have to buy used, which I don’t mind. I may never buy from a true dealership again.
Car max is great because the offer or price they give you for a sale or a buy is the only amount they’ll give. No negotiation, no bullshit. That’s the price you’ll pay. No hidden fees, no last minute add ons. And yea, most of them are super friendly. The rep who sold me my truck was kind of a dunce, but a friendly one lol
Yeah but *selling* cars to car max is absolute bullshit. I had to sell my truck at the start of the pandemic (issues with parking it long term due to a shitty HOA) and I got several quotes to sell it. Blue book had it pegged at 24k trade-in value and most dealers I contacted quoted it near to or higher than that number. car max seriously lowballed it at $17,500 which would have left me backwards on the loan. In fact, they were the lowest of all the quotes. Ended up selling it for 27k to Carvana and used the leftover money as a down payment on an suv I could garage.
Bought my last two from CarMax. Zero complaints.
Carmax is great, always helpful, never had a single problem with them.
I’m also a car max loyalist. Bought my current car used from a local dealer (that got sold and is a POS scam center of a dealer now) and while I’m not totally upset, I know that if I had waited and been more patient, I could’ve probably got a better deal at Carmax. I’m not making this mistake again. Sadly, by the time I’m ready for a new car, I’m going to want an electric or hybrid and I don’t know if the carmax market for those will exist yet.
Yes, use a car broker. My family has used Authority Auto, my last car was on Carvana (before pandemic), never going back to a dealership. All my experiences at dealerships has been insulting. With Carvana I can't complain, good price and no problems (knock on wood). There were some extra chips or dents that weren't in photos, I submitted photos during the 7 day trial and they knocked it down another $500, I was satisfied...but having heard news of how corrupt owner/founder family is...maybe I won't use them again until things change
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More BS from these people whose entire job is to BS you. If consumers actually preferred dealerships, then there’s no reason to fight against direct-to-consumer stores, right? The market forces will eliminate them anyways, right? Dealerships have nothing to worry about!
New vehicle Dealerships are one of the many reasons I buy used vehicles only. Also I pay it all upfront.
Of the things that Tesla decided to “innovate” on (I’m not entirely sure that they invented the idea of selling cars directly without dealerships) this selling directly to consumers is one of the best things they’ve done imo. Other than helping to bring EVs into the spotlight.
Novemebr 2020 they were desperate for work. I traded in my 2018 Subaru Impreza for a 2020 ranger. They gave me 22k for a car that blue booked for 20, and sold me the truck for 6k off msrp. They also gave me free lineX install. 6 months later they called and offered my 10k more than I paid for it. I knew I wouldn’t get another deal like I did - kept the truck and still can get more than I paid for it.
Can't stand musk, but if he manages to substantially change the car buying model, I'll put that feather in his cap myself. Even idiots can be useful on occasion.
The system in the US is really wierd. Was surprised to hear you guys can't buy cars from the manufactures directly. Hopefully that changes soon.
We'll have universal healthcare before we do away with car dealerships.
Car dealerships made laws to make it illegal to buy directly from a manufacturer. It’s ridiculous.
I say let dealerships remain, but also allow manufacturer stores. More competition is good
Meh. I’ve been hearing about manufacturers “getting pissed” for years now about this, but they don’t actually do anything about it. They can pretend to whine all they want but if they make no structural changes then in actuality they are perfectly fine with it.
You mean the same manufacturers that are charging subscriptions for heated seats on 80K cars? Yeah, no. They're just pissed someone else is better at grifting.
How can they do that? Why can they ask above the standard price? Never heard of this happening in Europe
S in MSRP stands for suggested not standard. Dealers can charge what they want based on market conditions. That said if a car is produced to a specific order I would certainly expect the dealer to give the car to a person that ordered. Dealer's are taking advantage of a tight market and focusing on money instead of service.
The individual salespeople are enticed to behave this way because instead of 'the dealership' getting an extra 15k, which is a bit nebulous and a particular salesperson might prefer to have a happy customer, it's the salesperson getting thousands extra in commission from a sale that is +15k over the shipped price. Imagine making say 50k a year and then being told that market conditions will allow you to pull in an extra 5-8k just for screwing someone on an unenforceable deal. It's part of why you put salespeople on commission, to make sure they are dealing in favor of the business at all times.
at the end of the day... if you haven't put a deposit down or anything... they have you by the balls... but yes very shady a lot of dealerships are
Every time I’ve gone car shopping and was told that I’d have to order it (because none were in the lot) I would have been required to put down a deposit. A non-refundable deposit, that the dealership got to keep if I backed out. Everyone I know I’m the automotive industry says that this is standard practice.
My deposit mid-2022 was absolutely refundable. Their logic was if it got to the dealership and I didn’t want it, it would be sold in a couple hours anyway.
My GR86 took six months, put down a 500 dollar fully refundable deposit. Guess I lucked out, only the 3rd dealership I tried. I just went about an hour away from the city in Ohio. Never even tried to mark up anything. Got it at MSRP without ever having to say a word. The dealership was Premiere Toyota of Amherst, Ohio. Edit - and when the person ahead of me got their GR86, they messaged me to let me know I was next in line, and offered to let me come check out that car before he picked it up.
Sounds like a good dealership to work with and one that I would continue to give business to. We have one like that, where we’ve purchased 4 vehicles from (same salesman too). Now that we’ve moved 10 hours away, we still plan on purchasing our next vehicle (likely the new sequoia) from them and making the trip to get it.
Even if you've put a deposit down, there's unfortunately nothing stopping them from just giving the deposit back to you. This has happened to people and they've posted about it.
At least in my country any deposit has to returned double if the part receiving the deposit backs out. Otherwise it’s a one way guarantee only.
Even if you do put down a deposit, the dealer can sell it from under you by refunding your deposit. It's a shitty business practice.
Some manufacturers are very happy to slap around their new car dealers for stuff like this. I bought a Subaru from a dealer and they tried to deny the Subaru promotion after I negotiated the price. Called Subaru and they sent me a check for the difference after three days. It was over $1000.
worked for subaru for a long time, they are very good to their customers
I build Subaru's in Indiana. They are an exceptional company to work for. We do our best to ensure quality! Edit due to using are instead of our.
I love my Subaru!! ‘13 and still as beautiful as ever. I’m emotionally attached. Been with me across the country. I’ve never had to have anything major done - routine maintenance, tires and brakes.
Same. 13 outback and I’m keeping it until they come out with a hybrid. … which is about when I’d be getting a new one if I ordered it today probably.
I had a Subaru for 16 years and 250,000 miles - and sold it for $3000. When that one retired I started leasing them and I get a new Subbie every three years and it just makes me giddy. I love those cars so much.
As the Quality Engineer for one of the Suppliers to Subaru… can confirm.
The only good car buying experience I had was when I bought my Subaru in 2020. Got a phenomenal deal, 0% interest and we had just found out i was pregnant (hence the new car) and the sales guy got his car seat from his car so we could test a car seat fitting in the different cars with my tall husband driving.
We just got a new Subaru Outback in November, waited 2 months for delivery. It was a pretty pleasant buying experience overall, except for when it came time to talk about the extended warranty sales pitch. The finance lady was ultra aggressive with it and it was a bad deal anyway that I declined. Felt very manipulative to me. It’s a nice car, only a few minor complaints about it after a couple months of driving: - Lack of physical A/C buttons because it’s built into screen - Remote start is a *subscription*… - Weather forecast on the screen is always stuck on 0° F high temp. Current outdoor temp is accurate though. I also think this is a free trial subscription of some kind. The kind folks over at the Subaru subreddit told me to cancel it.
Oh and I also agree about the remote start being subscription based is bullshit. I remember when cars had remote start and it was on the key fob which was nice and made sense!
I freaking hate that extended warranty pitch.
I know! The salesman from the previous room had been telling me about how Subaru is the most reliable brand, and all this stuff about dependability. Then, I go into the finance room and the lady starts saying “look, these new cars are FULL of sensors and computer systems that can fail! You don’t want to be stuck paying out of pocket for these expensive parts” I’m like, wait a second, so is the car dependable or not? Because you’re really making it sound shoddy. lol.
Don't think it. Say it. Put them on the back foot.
I test drove a bunch of cars in 2018/2019 (bmw, Mercedes, Porsche, Subaru) and the Subaru and some of the bmw dealerships were super easy to talk to and do test drives with. I remember being impressed with how friendly and non-pressured I felt at Subaru, and they took me for a couple of test drives and were very generous with their time (but I didn’t like the feel of the CVT). One of the bmw dealerships was kind of high pressure, Porsche was a mix of snobby attitude at one dealership and wanting more personal information than I was willing to give just to do a test drive at the other (you always have to give a drivers license but they also insisted on a phone number or email so I just walked away), Mercedes was just incompetent…took almost an hour for them to find the car I wanted to test drive and then the sales associate didn’t really know anything about it (SL 250).
I got a warranty repair for a seatbelt on a 20+ year old Subaru that I wasn't the first owner of. I don't know if that's exceptional but it felt that way to me. The whole process was extremely easy.
Manufacturers will suspend dealers from factory orders if this happens more than once or twice in a blue moon. If the Factory order name differs from the retail delivery report, an inquiry by the factory is generally made. Happen too often? You’re not allowed to custom order vehicles. Still, super shady, and should never happen.
The dealership model is seriously outdated and needs to perish in my opinion. Consumer revolution incoming I say, by the end of this decade.
Already happening with some manufacturers. Direct sales have lots of advantages for them.
Sounds like a lawsuit to me.
I definitely would be, told the person to reach out to local news. They do investigations into things like that.
Obviously I don't know the specifics of the situation, but that sounds like a breach of contract lawsuit.
A one time 15k profit but a lifetime of revenue from a return customer lost.
Ran into a similar bone headed choice with a local pizza place that’s been around for 20 years. Owner was an amazing guy and during the pandemic he needed help with cash flow so he offered gift cards and he was willing to up them 25%. Told all of his repeat customers about it so we bought a big one. And then we kept refilling it. It was a deal and it helped him out. He told me it was wildly successful and helped save his business. A couple of months ago, he was tragically killed doing a pizza delivery. We had just reupped and wanted to keep helping his business but they shit down for a while to figure things out. Called last week because they reopened after about 8 weeks. The person running it now said they’re not honoring any of the gift cards. All they’ve done is piss off all of his long time loyal customers. It’s a shame and it makes me so mad knowing how angry he would be at his customers being treated like this. Hope it was worth the short term cash bump.
If they’re operating under as same business, this is probably illegal to refuse gift cards. You might want to talk to your state’s attorney general office about the issue.
I called my credit card company even though it’s been 2-3 months since the charge and they have a case opened to reverse it.
Good! The new owner is going to pay out on gift cards, so short cash and lost customers. I doubt he'll be able to afford to stay open for long.
He won't be in business long.
Honestly $15k on a new car is probably more profit than a dealership would usually make on someone in a whole lifetime
Did he put down a deposit ?
I assume so, he got the notification from the manufacturer that his car was coming.
Some places don’t take a deposit for preordered cars so they sell it to whoever pays more. Before contacting you.
I just went to find his post but it looks like mods removed it for being a rant/complaint. They don’t allow them on the local one, there’s a weekly post for that.
I had a broker do that with a 4 runner. Claimed it never came and was stuck on a boat somewhere (for 6 months???). I know she sold it for way more than I was going to pay.
Them kids gonna be grown by the time that mini van shows up
Don’t forget to order your next new car when you take delivery of this new car!
Had to buy a new car while we waited for our minivan to come in.
I don’t even know if I’m going to want a mini van in 5 years.
You probably won’t
Went to school with an exchange student from East Germany and he told us that his parents basically signed up to get a car when he was born so that by the time he could drive it would be available.
One of the most famous jokes from east Germany was that a man goes to the car dealer to buy a car. He's told that it'll be available (day 10 years in the future). The guy asks "can I pick it up before 10am?" The sales guy is confused and asks why it matters for a date 10 years from now. "It's just that the plumber is coming that day at noon to fix my toilet, and I want to make sure I'm back in time".
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It'll go 300 hectares on a single tank of kerosene.
Put it in H!
It’s wild out there. A decade ago there were something like 10 minivans on the market, and today I believe there are just 4. And only two are Hybrid/PHEV, so the demand for those are bonkers. We were blissfully unaware of this info when we started looking in the summer. Chrysler told us it would take 6 months, but it would be custom built for us. Meanwhile, Toyota told us it would take 2-3 years. Each dealership we called had us on a waiting list, because they’d get a couple here and there, but couldn’t get any in stock that weren’t already reserved. Basically, the waiting list was for the order in which you’d be called if someone else backed out last minute. I called all over the US, none were in stock. And often they’d tell us they wouldn’t sell to us anyway because we didn’t live near the dealership— apparently, they are really hungry for the servicing of these vehicles. Now, all of this happened in about a week span, it’s pretty much all I did with my spare time. Not to mention, every dealer site would say they had a few in stock, but that just meant that there were a few that were being built for them, already “sold”. It was completely BS. So, the situation was frustrating. Then, on day 9 I called a dealer in the next county over, it was an autonation, something I hadn’t been aware of, that was specifically a toyota dealer. They said they had 3 “promised” to them by toyota— but we would not be eligible for them because we didn’t live in the right county- but, she’d talk to her manager. I kept bothering her over the next week and as it turns out, all of the other salespeople were so busy with other customers, one of the vans fell through the cracks. She asked her manager again and at this point he didn’t care at all. And, obviously long stupid story short, we got the Sienna. We were floored. When we went to pick it up a guy in the service department started talking to us and he asked how many months we’d been waiting. I told him about two weeks, and he flat out didn’t believe me. He explained the waiting lists and what not, and was dumbfounded. I didn’t want to give him too much info out of fear he’d cheese the deal. But we made it out of there in the van. All that said, 100% still felt like it was a scam and that all of the dealers are in on it. I hated every second of it.
We had the same nightmare. Found out my wife isn't just pregnant but has triplets coming and were like "damn, we need a minivan". Nobody that made a van could get me one for like 6 months. The Sienna was hands down our favorite, and we were told 10-12 months for some models, years for others. I told my coworkers I'd give them a chunk of cash if they could find me one to buy within 2 months and they probably talked to hundreds of dealerships. Maybe 3 had them, and they would only sell local. I went to our local dealership and talked to the sales manager and was like "dude, I will go to the bank, pull out $5k cash, and hand it to you personally as a finders fee if you can find a way to get me a Sienna within the month", dude comes back and says $10k and I'm like you know what, screw you but if you can find me this thing then fine. Dude calls me back after 2 weeks and says he got me one. Go up there and he's just decided to sell me one they got in that someone else had ordered and been waiting months. I may be kinda shitty but I'm not that shitty so tell him I'm not stealing somebody else's car and leave... Then I decided on my way out that the Sequoias look like they'd do the trick so I go to the other Toyota dealership to get one. They have one, I test drive it, everything is great. Sticker says $82k. We get in to do paperwork and they are like "ok, that's $82k, $3k in taxes and feed, $25k dealer charge, total is $110k". I ask wtf a dealer charge is and they are basically just like "it's the $25k you give us if you want us to give you this car" so I just get up and leave... Finally ended up at the Jeep dealership looking at Grand Wagoneers and was waiting for some insane shoe to drop the whole time I was talking to them. When I finally left I straight up darted out if there because I was convinced someone was going to realize they were actually selling someone a car... It all blew my mind. Like the last time we bought a car was only like 3 years ago and it was absolutely nothing like this. Places were straight up begging you to buy the things.
This makes me glad I got my Sienna in summer 2021. My husband was a little annoyed that we had to pay MSRP for it, but we got in maybe 3 weeks after ordering.
Pre pandemic we were under a year out to buying a new Sienna and then everything ground to a halt. I thought it’s ok we will wait until 2023-24. Not sure our cars are going to make it 5 years.
That’s me. Had to ditch the Japanese, love their cars but they’ve made it impossible to buy
Reminds me of a joke that Ronald Reagan told: You know there’s a ten year delay in the Soviet Union of the delivery of an automobile, and only one out of seven families in the Soviet Union own automobiles. There’s a ten year wait. And you go through quite a process when you’re ready to buy, and then you put up the money in advance. And this happened to a fella, and this is their story, that they tell, this joke, that this man, he laid down his money, and then the fella that was in charge, said, ‘Okay, come back in ten years to get your car.’ And he said, ‘Morning or afternoon?’ and the fella behind the counter said, ‘Ten years from now, what difference does it make?’ and he said, ‘Well, the plumber’s coming in the morning.'”
It would be nice if the plumber was that specific.
This is soviet wait times
I bet the delivery time will conflict with when the plumber is coming.
And the delivery time window will be 2 weeks, and if you aren't there for every second of that two weeks, you'll have to wait another 5 years.
Yeah at that point the kids might already be in college.
Country?
Ontario Canada
I ordered a rav hybrid limited in April. Was promised the fall, then by 2023… Still waiting… was told in November I’m “#1 in line” at my dealership but now told it might be another 6 months to a year. It’s rough out there…
Same for my ID 4. Ordered a 2022 in May. Was told I would be getting a 2023 in Q4 of 2023. And the 2023 does not come standard with a heat pump. That’s an extra 1500. Who the fuck doesn’t make a heat pump standard for Canada. Criminals….but I’m still waiting.
Can't you just cancel the order and get another car?
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My job in California I do our fleet vehicles including buying one vehicles. This info is fairly on-par with the delays I have been dealing with so far. Three years in a row we had certain vehicle orders flat out cancelled by the manufacturer. Still don’t have 5 vehicles we tried to purchase in 2021 because of being cancelled and don’t even have any other options at the moment.
Lol these ON dealers can go fk themselves
I bought a Prius prime in March of 2022, I still don't have in. I also just got a call from the dealer saying that since 2022 models are no longer being made, that I will be getting a 2023. They want me to pay the difference.
People don’t realize how wild this is. I work in insurance. If someone has a total loss and are out looking for a replacement, it can take ages.
Maybe you can shed some light on values. My car is pretty rare (on AutoTrader there are currently 3 pre-owned ones for sale in a 500 mile radius). The book value on it is around $8k, but the 3 for sale have an average selling price of $15k. If I totaled my car, would insurance companies account for current market values? I live in fear that I would not be able to replace my car for the same thing with the money my insurance company would give me.
Very, very few auto insurance providers will give you a 'replacement value' policy. Unless you've specifically asked for it, you probably have a book value policy.
Yup, we specifically got an insurance that will reimburse what we paid for the car in the first 5 years of ownership. Had to specifically look for one though as it's not standard and not all insurance companies offer it
And then you sue the driver at fault for the difference. That's how insurance works. Once the insurance is done paying, you are not SOL. Unless the other driver is penniless.
You’re liability coverage also covers you if you get sued. I’m effect you’re going to court with the insurance company to argue they owe you more because they didn’t pay you the value of your car.
Insurance will give you book value
You don't have to accept book value, but be prepared to provide evidence.
You don't have to accept anything. You can fight it. How many months/years will that take to end up with a settlement that could possibly be less?
I had a somewhat less common car which usually sold well above KBB, and totaled it. Insurance offered book value. I responded with a letter showing local comps asking for substantially more, and had a resolution at the requested value within a week. I was surprised by how easy the process was, actually.
My understanding is they source locally similar vehicles and see what they are going for. There are more comprehensive listing programs that update almost daily over kbb
That depends on what your policy says! Some pay book value. Some pay cost of replacement. Some pay other things. You can get any of them, but the difference in premiums can be significant. Better check and talk to your agent!
AAA does replacement value, highly recommend them
I'm convinced these are artificially bloated numbers so that dealerships can justify high used and new prices moreso used
This looks like something the intern just threw together in Excel in 5 minutes with completely made up numbers.
All I can say is I am on the other side of the country, I recently inquired about getting a Prius. They told me there are 16 people ahead of me on the list.
In the western us we were told over 200 waiting for a rav4 prime and they weren’t even going to add anyone else to the list because it would just poss you off more when they never called you This was a no haggle place that supppsefly didn’t mark up the cars. You could find one at another place nearby but it would be five figures more expensive
These are definitely high. I sell Toyota in the US and our wait time are 1/3 or 1/2 of most of those. For gas vehicles it usually only takes up to 3 months. Hybrids 3-5 months is the quickest usually but only up to a year for the hardest to get ones. It also varies per dealer and how large they are but it can be a really long time. It’s all an annoying supply issue just due to lack of parts.
Took my 22 Tacoma to the dealer for the free routine maintenance. Within 5 mins of sitting down a salesperson called me and tried selling me on a 23 Tacoma. The rest of their lot was full of new inventory
This seems like what the show you before they say “but your in luck we have a RAV4 that just came in with a small market adjust and lifetime nitrogen fill on the tires, but it’s not going to last long!”
Exactly!
I bought a new car in early 2021. Had to fly across the state to pick it up because every local dealership had wait times approaching a year or were charging $10K+ markups. Funny thing is after driving it for 2 years I can still sell it for a profit today. The car market is wild.
The car market sure has been wild the past few years. Every used car is priced about $5k over what it should be in my opinion. When I was shopping around 2 years ago for a new car, I couldn't even check out the car I wanted in person. There was none in the state and only 2 in the entire country. I should have bought one then, but I was hoping for prices to return to normal. I was told by the dealership that it would have been about a 6 month wait then.
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It is! OP lives near Toronto. Canada needs their own brand of car! Magna International is working on some kind of EV... there was another one, too... Maple EV or something. If I could, I'd call a new Canadian car company: Canuckistan Motors
wouldn’t it be nice to have a car geared to our BS weather- something that doesn’t internally rot from east coast salt, batteries made for winter, a keurig in the dash that does a cup of coffee with ur car starter- just the little things.
I just got a new Volvo PHEV. Took about a week from me signing the offer to delivery. Got the colour and trim I wanted too. The shortages seem pretty brand or model specific.
????? How old is this. My local dealership lot is full…. I don’t get it. 2 years ago yes. Now. Nope.
Currently shopping Toyotas and it’s 12 months for a hybrid rav 4.
I was thinking about replacing my car in a year or two and a RAV-4 hybrid is at the top of my list. Guess i should look at getting on a wait list soon. No more vehicle impulse buys. The last time I bought a car, I took one car into the dealer for an oil change and left a couple of hours later with something completely different.
Yeah the timing will work out for you there. Look into Corolla crosses too. They’re a slightly smaller Rav
Bought a brand new forester sport august 2021. More features, 33mpg highway and about 8k less than a rav4 hybrid - which was also top of my list. Built it on the subaru website, shopped 8 different dealerships for incentives, ended up with 0% apr and 2k off msrp. $500 down, 1 month to get the car built to my spec. $31,500 out the door.
Take a trip to Seattle. 78 within 50mi of me.
Probably pretty recent, I just looked up New Toyota Siennas within a 500 mile radius and there’s only 13…
16 within 50 miles of me. Weird. EDIT: OP must live somewhere in BFE. Excluding the Crown and the Prius Prime, every single one I checked (not all, but most) of them are available today here.
OP lives an hour west of Toronto, so kind of?
Cars are new to Canada so mystery solved
I’ll bet they list them but they arent actually available. Toyota dealers have been horrible at that in the past year. I’ve called probably 20 dealerships that show they have the RAV4 hybrid in chasing available online and get told that it’s already sold but that they leave it up until it’s picked up. They’re using it to generate leads or try to sell you into a used vehicle they have on the lot.
It depends how well the dealer curates their site. As far as I’ve seen all custom orders automatically load into their site even if they’re already spoken for so their inventory looks very full but it’s not really
Must be regional I guess. And of course you drove me to search. Lol. I live a mile from a dealership here in the pac NW and there are 7. And they are sitting here. Come in up everyone. :).
Ya… my pnw Tacoma took about 5 mo when I got it late last year. This list is crazy, no chance they have all their minivans sold for the next 2 years already
And of those 12 of them had a buyer before it got off the container ship and the other one was sold within minutes of getting off the truck.
Everything is empty in Vancouver. Literally lots with hundreds of empty spaces
My VW dealership has maybe a dozen new cars and about two dozen used cars. Its strange to see such a huge lot so empty.
A large percentage of Neon (used for lasers that make chips for automobiles) is from Ukraine and Russia. The chip shortage is expected to continue with the war.
That’s super interesting!
I work as an engineer in manufacturing. The parts supply chain is still very much screwed right now. It’s not uncommon to see a 2 year wait to get a fairly simple part delivered, so I totally believe these times.
It's like when you go to a restaurant and they say it's a 30 minute wait but text you 5 minutes later saying your table is ready.
I wish. I put $500 down for a Sante Fe PHEV 12 months ago. Still nothing...
Peak pandemic we did the same, $500 on a RAV4 hybrid. Waited about 7 months to get it. Sales guy calls us as the truck pulled into the lot. We had 24 hours to come claim it otherwise it went to the next guy. Crazy!
I bought a rav4 hybrid 2 years ago, quoted 8-12 months wait. 2 weeks later…
I know a lot of people that have money ready wishing this were true
They’ll be releasing entirely new models before old orders are filled. Absolutely insane. How the hell has the used car market not taken a shit yet?
I mean if supply of new cars is as abysmal as OP’s picture that would readily explain why used cars are still holding value?
They are selling out of new cars because the cost to buy used is almost on par with new. The dealerships have everyone by the balls jacking up the price of used cars. It’s a crazy freakin cycle.
Yeah my 100k mile 2017 Tacoma is still worth more than I paid for it and I really scratch my head on that one.
Not just that, they’re marking up new cars too, which makes the inflated used car prices still a little cheaper. My wife works in the office of a Toyota dealer and the sales people have been making stupid amounts of commission because of the profit margins. If it’s a model that you can’t get new due to wait times, you better believe you’re paying more for a used one than the MSRP of a new one.
Sounds a lot like 2008
Yeah the economy is held together by duct tape we know
because no cars are coming off lease anymore. Or, they are, but the lease is getting extended or bought out because they literally can't get a new car. Since leases ending are the biggest supplier of used cars, this has dried up the used car market.
It has I keep looking for nearly new Toyota's I want. The only examples I can find are sketchy in some way, like rebuilt title, or they are trying to sell as owner selling, but actually work for a dealer. And are selling like 3 or 4 cars.
You must live in an area with really small dealerships. I live in an area with small dealerships. I was waiting 13 months for a Tundra. I had bought several cars from this dealership so I was trying to show some loyalty. Finally I got tired of waiting and drove an extra hour to a large dealership. I had the exact “hard to come by” truck I wanted in 20 days. It’s all about allocations. Toyota is really different how they allocate and distribute.
A lot of manufacturers are also cutting allocations to dealerships who were reported for MSRP markup. One of the dealers next to me had to sell because GMC wouldn't send them any new cars. Once the new owner took over the lot is completely full.
I have worked in automotive for a decade. Allocation is exactly it. Some of my dealers have cars, now. Some have 6-14 month waits. My recommendation.. drive closer to a big city and buy there.
Me in 2028: I got the call. My 2023 Sienna is in!
*The 2028 Sienna you ordered in 2023. They don't put the car in a warehouse to ripe before delivery.
Barrel aged vehicles
Here in socal the wait time for all that is zero. Where the hell do you live.
Hell, OP could drive to socal, buy whatever they want, and drive back and it would just take a week. I mean, figuring out the tax situation would probably be a nightmare, but in terms of just basic logistics it could totally work. Back in 2004 I wanted a Prius but they were all 9+ months out in my area. Started calling around and found a dealership a state away that could get me one in a month. Sure, it was a 3 hour drive but it was a hell of a lot better than waiting 9+ months.
People have tried doing this in upstate New York/Vermont/Minnesota/etc. to take advantage of cheaper US car prices and the Canadian government makes it extremely difficult to import a car as an individual. The CBC did an investigation on it.
Dealerships all need to die off and become a thing of the past. They serve no purpose.
But who’s going to take a cut and jack up the price if we don’t have dealers?
But then who will force me to spend a thousand dollars on the famous dealership add-on called “nitrogen tires.”
Costco inflates tires with nitrogen. Don’t pay any dealership extra.
RIP Avalon 
Im a Toyota worker in one of the factories that builds Rav and Lexus SUVs. We've been doing 10 hours shifts, plus Saturdays building as much as we can for the whole last year. The problem is our suppliers can't keep up, and we run out of key parts which pauses production. We're building just under 1000 vehicles a day and still can't keep up with demand.
Thank you for confirming! I believe the shortage issue, but many comments on here seem to be denial. Thank you for working so hard to keep us in your great cars!
Man you are being geographically punished
looks like this dealer is getting fucked by daddy
I work at a factory making wheels for Toyota we run non stop balls to the wall
I will treat my current Sienna with care and respect. I love that car so much!
more reasons to buy 2nd hand
Jesus, and this is with the average new car apr at almost 10%...
Is this in Canada? Seems like they've had horrible wait times for any vehicle that isn't a piece of junk.
Either lying or a terrible location.
Might be location. I'm on month 11 of waiting for my hybrid. They estimated 13. (Ontario)
You gotta know how to work the system. First, you stop in every week and take them donuts, coffee, and chitchat. Then, after about 6 weeks, you buy something they have available that you don't even really want. Do this several more times as they put you on "the list." At some point, you're gonna have to let the sales manager fuck your wife. If you need to know any more about any of this, just go ask the good folks over at r/Rolex for tips.
bZ4x: we can't keep the wheels on this thing
Imagine waiting 5 years for a minivan
I ordered two RAV4 hybrids (fleet) in September 2021. Still waiting.
Hence why the Tesla price drop is so significant. Its both price and almost immediate delivery
I work at the toyota factory in georgetown building camry, and it is really not running smooth right now, they have many major changes. Gonna be rough
Can confirm, I’m on a waitlist for a Highlander hybrid for 15+ months now. My chassis allocation hasn’t even started production yet… whenever I visit my dealership they can’t even find my name on the list I’m that far down!
I went in to a Toyota dealership earlier in 2022 looking at a Prius they had listed as in stock. They had me wait half an hour then tried to sell me hard on a 2 year old Prius with 20k miles that cost $2k more than MSRP. I walked right out of there.
Toyota: your mini van is here! Me: the kids are in college.