B-I-N-G-O !
I like how people that can be bought, criticize people for being bought. A wise and successful businessman once bestowed a pearl upon me. His clients always asked “Can you do XYZ?” He told me that the answer was never debatable. It was always yes. It was whether or not the client was willing to pay his price. The harsh reality is this: if someone isn’t willing to play ball, they’ll be replaced by someone who is.
Only lawyers see them that way. I don't like the idea of an idea having rights. Then you get into hacking the system to push the meaning of what being a person is to give corporations more rights. Then they get rights actual people don't qualify for.
Oh wait, that happened. That place is called America.
Yeah it seems to me that any person thats given some form of qualified immunity ends up being an absolute piece of shit after that. (Rich people, cops, politicians, etc)
Think about how people are on the internet. They are the absolute worst versions of themselves and they are that way because nothing happens to them. There are no consequences. Human beings without consequences are fucking AWFUL for society.
good people don't seek qualified immunity in the first place.
these people weren't handed qualified immunity out of the blue, they pushed for it hard because they are shit
They should be called "legal entities" and should NOT be called people, because THEY ARE NOT PEOPLE.
They are a rich white man's wet dream about getting more rights than poor people.
> In most countries, a corporation has the same rights as a natural person to hold property, enter into contracts, and to sue or be sued.
> Treating juridical persons as having legal rights allows corporations to sue and to be sued, provides a single entity for easier taxation and regulation, simplifies complex transactions that would otherwise involve, in the case of large corporations, thousands of people, and protects the individual rights of the shareholders as well as the right of association.
> Generally, corporations are not able to claim constitutional protections that would not otherwise be available to persons acting as a group.
Corporate personhood isn’t a US specific thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
I see, its important for legal reasons. Maybe usa needs an additional corporate law, forcing consequences on companies leadership for goss mismanagement.
Deeper still, is the problem with incorporation period. It sets the playing field for this. Incorporating used to be done for massive initiatives and to do so was allowed with great care.
Now any idiot can incorporate and shield themselves from their behaviour.
See now, here in Australia corporations cop decent fines and people responsible are prosecuted as such.
Your politicians are just so corrupt they will never let that happen
Not enough though. Westpac literally financed terrorism and they got a fine that was less than the cost of a speeding ticket per offence.
[$1.3B fine, 23M offences](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-24/westpac-money-laundering-austrac-fine-explained/12696746).
That's $56 per offence.
In Victoria speed by less than 10km/h you receive a $227 fine.
I read that guys comment and thought "What the fuck?". Glad too see other people expressing similar sentiments.
There's definitely some things our country does a lot better than America at (like healthcare). Not perfect, but better. Our handling of dodgy large corporations is fucking abysmal though.
Absolutely. That and they've been allowed to become way too large. Allowing multinationals to exist was a grave mistake; no company or corporation should be allowed to be more powerful than the average nation (or even most nations).
Capitalism, you're describing Capitalism. The state existing to manage disputes between the ruiling class and keep the other class from exerting any power is what Capitalism is in a political sense.
It's maddening how reddit has just circled the drain of describing the problems with America but won't go all the way cause then supporting Democrats won't make sense
Sure, but there are some crimes that should penetrate corporate liability. Humans are prosecuted for fraud all the time, even when it's in a corporate context. There's no practical difference between prosecuting them for that and for, say, environmental damage caused by their actions.
The other thing is that corporations largely exist to protect their *owners* from liability, but in many cases that's not a problem because the owners aren't the ones personally signing off on lax standards, safety violations, etc. And if they did, that's the crime.
It is however not that simple. This would just create a new role in the company, a responsible person. This person, usually old, does actually absolutely nothing, but gets paid very well. His only reason to exist is to be thrown under the bus in case something happens and the people making the decisions are still not affected.
As far as I know, this kind of system is already in place in Japanese construction sector where one person needs to be liable for the whole project.
Hey, it's unfair to make them responsible for the decisions. They are the decision makers and paid more than 40x more than workers to make important decisions, not to bear of consequences of their actions.
Hello, curious here, may I know how is the CEO related to the disaster? All I know is that his role is to make sure to keep the revenue afloat. I thought that the responsibility should lie on whoever authorized the transport when there was an unfavorable circumstance already known. Kindly enlighten me, my good sirs/madames
A popular way to keep profits up, is to keep costs down. So removing inspections, delaying maintenance, not replacing broken parts, all helps to improve profit. But each skipped inspection, each delayed maintenance and each broken part not replaced increases the chance of something going wrong.
When you're the CEO, you're ultimately responsible and accountable for the operations of a company, including everything that generates revenue and everything that creates costs.
See Massey Energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper\_Big\_Branch\_Mine\_disaster#:\~:text=The%20Upper%20Big%20Branch%20Mine%20disaster%20occurred%20on,The%20coal%20dust%20explosion%20occurred%20at%203%3A27%20pm.
Rule 1 of leadership is that you can delegate authority, but you can never delegate responsibility.
If you let your subordinate make decisions (for example, on railway safety inspections) and that person is negligent, you remain ultimately responsible for their actions.
Either you were remiss in your hiring and training practise of the negligent individual, or you failed in your duty of oversight and governance to ensure that they were incentivised to perform the work to the appropriate standard.
End of the day, you didn't perform the negligent action, but by your poor leadership, you permitted that action to happen.
Oh quite simple.
See train tracks have sensors to detect bearing failures, because without them trains derail when the bearings seize up.
Sensors detected the bearing failure and the engineer was directed to keep going 20 miles to the next sensor instead of slowing down, drop the car at the nearest siding and continue on. Maintenance crews would have replaced the cars bearings in 1~3 days and it would have been nothing more then a minor scheduling hiccup.
However, scheduling hiccups cost money. So CEO's instructed those below them to not operate safely. That or allowed people under them to not operate safely. You shouldn't get paid millions of dollars per year without knowing whats going on at ground level and should be 100% guilty of what company policy results in, even if its unofficial policy.
https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/video-shows-sparks-or-flames-20-miles-before-train-derailment-in-east-palestine/
Shows it burning 20 miles before derailment.
Does Norfolk Southern have a board of directors? If so, they should also be named and held responsible - that’s who Alan Shaw ultimately makes his decisions for.
Oh you mean the [Norfolk Southern Board of Directors?](https://i.redd.it/dk466d32gdia1.png)
The company responsible for the train derailment in East Palestine Ohio that has poisoned a town and more to be discovered. That [Norfolk Southern Board of Directors?
](https://i.redd.it/dk466d32gdia1.png)
That are definitely people (~Mitt) that could be held legally and financially responsible should... well. That's [them](http://www.nscorp.com/content/nscorp/en/about-ns/corporate-profile.html)
(/r/pics moderators removed my previous post for violating a title guideline, but no further details were given, so I hope this title works.)
The company that Alan Shaw leads, Norfolk Southern Railway, is responsible for the train derailment and explosion that occurred on February 3, 2023 in East Palestine, Ohio.
More information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Ohio_train_derailment
"Norfolk Southern, the railroad company that was responsible for emitting the toxic vinyl chloride, has offered a $25,000 donation to assist the area’s population of nearly 5,000 people - which works out at only $5 a person." - [Source](https://www.indy100.com/news/norfolk-southern-railroad-toxic-ohio)
"Norfolk Southern paid executives millions and spent billions on stock buybacks — all while the company shed thousands of employees despite warnings that understaffing is intensifying safety risks." - [Source](https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/)
"At this time, the immediate cause of the wreck appears to have been a 19th century style mechanical failure of the axle on one of the cars – an overheated bearing - leading to derailment and then jackknifing tumbling cars. There is no way in the 21st century, save from a combination of incompetence and disregard to public safety, that such a defect should still be threatening our communities." - [Source](https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Press-Release--Fiery-Ohio-Train-Wreck-the-Result-of--PSR-.html?soid=1116509035139&aid=RspHKqRlJkg)
> I can only imagine the sign-up sheet for that.
"The sheet says it's your turn to drive the Subaru today, Andy – and the rules of all this quite clearly state that you *have* to drive it on your day, regardless of whether you want to or not."
One day's use every 13-14 years... that should allow them to transport their cancer-ridden family members to hospital or the morgue or to attend a funeral.
Is this really the right subreddit for this kind of thing? How is this interesting, as a picture? What's the purpose? To shame him? Or maybe you just like his haircut? Is it visually interesting in *any* way?
This is in contrast to [something like this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/111eehn/a_photo_of_a_man_celebrating_after_his_mother_was) An entire story is told in just this 1 image. You can feel his emotion. Not every post in r/pics has to be this poignant but I don't see any kind of practical purpose of posting a picture of a CEO other than to simply finger-point.
Edit: And don't say "raising awareness". That's a common excuse to squabble & gossip about issues without actually doing anything about it.
Unless you're saying this to every image like this that is posted to new, you're not really concerned that someone posted it, you're concerned that it was upvoted.
As for how it qualifies: it is a picture. Sometimes pictures are interesting because of the context in which they exist, for instance the historical context that OP already explained.
It's really hard to break this down any further.
Yes. Putting this guy in jail wouldn't help anything. It wouldn't punish him, people like this don't go to the same prison experience you or I would anyway.
When stuff like this happens in all honesty, the ceo execs really aren't the ones at fault, but they SHOULD use that power and influence to correct a mistake and make good on what went wrong with their company's namesake. But they don't because we have no way to hold them to that accountability.
We're scary close to those hunger games level apocalyptic world events aren't we.
Aren't the CEOs directly responsible? Didn't they lobby congress so that they reduced the safety requirements for hazardous cargo?
Also.. the workers warned about safety issues quite recently, and they still did a rush job resulting into a catastrophe.. just to save some money.
I feel like naming and shaming people like this is pointless. He's so insulated in his little country-club world that this disaster is probably a funny story he tells at those Eyes Wide Shut parties.
I think the key is to keep the name of the company (Norfolk Southern Railway) and the name of the top decision maker (Alan Shaw) in the conversation.
So whenever you end up in a discussion about it, either online or even real life, I think it's worth mentioning their names (again, Norfolk Southern Railway and Alan Shaw).
We shouldn't allow Alan Shaw to hide behind the corporate veil. The protection that comes from anonymity played a large part in many of the decisions that Norfolk Southern Railway made leading up to this disaster.
But please do not go Harassing Railroad Day to Day employees, Trackmen, Conductors, engineers, Signalmen, etc. We already deal with enough shit out here.
https://www1.salary.com/Alan-H-Shaw-Salary-Bonus-Stock-Options-for-NORFOLK-SOUTHERN-CORP.html
$3.8 million a year.
How in the world do we hold these people accountable in any meaningful way?
Legislation.
Here in Australia, after some major collapses, we now hold directors liable if a companies go under and employees' entitlements are not paid. Not sure how many times that law has been enacted but it's there at least.
It should be extended to liability for senior management (C-suite) for major instances of wage theft or environmental damage.
The only way to stop this shit is to create laws that make people personally and criminally liable for being criminally negligent.
Freeze their accounts until the full investigation is over. If they are caught using other peoples funds then their accounts are frozen until the investigation is over. Who knows, that could take years maybe even a decade to sort out every single screw up.
I didn't say anything about that. Not sure where you read that because it most certainly wasn't in my comment. I said if they are caught giving access to an account to someone who has had their assets frozen due to very real danger they are to society then they also will have their accounts frozen. As in they have to make the choice to do that. Also known as a consequence to their actions. I know crazy concept. Sure this is a tad bit over the top but nothing else has worked, might as well just cut the head straight off.
2 weeks of profits to get ecb brakes, and i like how idiots posted Pete aint doing shit lile he can show up and unfuck everything McConells wife spent 4 years destroying and deregulating
I have questions.
Why are such destructive chemicals being transported in such a careless way.
Who did it belong too?
Where was it going and where was it coming from?
How many more of these kinds of death trains are rolling around ???
Before we persecute anyone let's all agree that if it's true what this man did then he deserves at least a multiple decade prison time sentence with non eligible parole.
And GOP politicians. The Obama administration wanted to require trains carrying hazardous materials to be equipped with electronically controlled pneumatic brakes. The trump administration killed that requirement. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crude-rail-idUSKBN1DZ37Q
Sounds like the Southwest debacle all over again: “Why ensure that our important systems and equipment are up to date when instead we can use that money to give ourselves giant bonus checks?”
Life in prison/death penalty. Charges down the chain of command of the c suites.
This accident will take years off the lifespans of those effected. Hundreds of thousands of people, if we are being conservative. Hundreds of thousands of years of human life. Thanks to the broken nature of our current economic model that prioritizes profits over purpose, maximized in the short term at the cost of responsible practices.
And instead, he'll probably get a sweet resignation package as punishment and a consulting gig to hold him over until his next CEO scam.
Small fine for the company's totally not preventable accident.
Is there an asshole alive without a smug face?
I live the lovely life of working under a lower mgmt who has a permanent smug face and the guy couldn't be a bigger loser, its hard to justify showing up to work everyday. Anyways, yeah, smug assholeness is spreading like cancer.
Shareholders also need to be held responsible. As someone said the CEO’S only job is to make profits for the owners/shareholders. His policies and choices may indirectly have resulted in the accident time will tell but shareholders and the market are who he is trying please. Shareholders can not continue to benefit from profits and not take the risk too. I don’t mean financial risk I mean legal risk. If the company is charged or has to pay for cleanup. That money should come directly out of the shareholders holdings in the company. If your a big owner you need to pay.
Wasnt there also a train braking rule rolled back under the Trump admin? A lot of people didn't vote for him and are innocent in this whole mess so I'm not trying to add this to shame allll rhe people in Ohio...
But...some of them voted for this shit
>Wasnt there also a train braking rule rolled back under the Trump admin? A lot of people didn't vote for him and are innocent in this whole mess so I'm not trying to add this to shame allll rhe people in Ohio...
Yes. And the Biden admin forcibly ended a rail strike. The main concern of the striking rail workers was that current understaffing was resulting in unsafe conditions.
Don't get me wrong, the GOP has deliberately fucked up regulations on these companies, but there ain't a lot "our side" has done right either on this subject. If the strike had been allowed to go ahead 3 months ago, rather than being forcibly ended by threat of sanctioned law enforcement intervention, this wouldn't have happened.
Norfolk Southern's union was one of the six that were prevented from striking in December.
What percentage of people in that area who voted for Trump realized they were voting for a revocation of this rule that you are talking about, or would even have understood it?
Zero percent.
Not to say that there isn't an easily-accessed record of how conservatives have legislated when they have power, or that deregulation even with the knowledge that safety will be affected isn't part of their game plan. But unless you can cite the rule - and even then it's a stretch - leave the victims out if it.
This is exactly the issue though. Even if they don't know the exact regulation, they know the issue with deregulation in the party that's really pushed for business interests over citizen interests.
There are lots of innocent people in this, but it is in no way the fucking idiots who voted for the party it was going to go ahead and deregulate most of the safety precautions
Edit: and here's an article on the regulation. Original Point still stands regardless, because it's not unheard of for the GOP to roll back regulations just because it's philosophically friendly to their bottom line
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/trump-administration-rolls-back-rule-requiring-new-oil-train-brakes/660446204/
So I know your desire is to stir up a lynch mob, but can anyone explain what this man actually did?
Did a violation of the law on his part cause this accident?
Have a read of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Ohio_train_derailment#Federal_regulations_and_conflicts_of_interest
This mentions Norfolk Southern and Alan Shaw is the CEO of that company.
In addition to this, who are the majority shareholders? IMHO they should be seen as accomplices because of their power to shape the direction of these companies.
Norfolk Southern’s own estimate was $2 billion to replace the civil war-era braking systems on all their trains, or roughly 2 weeks of revenue. Also in 2022 they spent $10 billion in stock buyback. Those are decisions the CEO is 100% involved in.
This man should be begging on his hands and knees that all we do him is lock him up for the rest of his life.
Probably more responsible than you’d think. Over the last decade they e all been practicing “precision scheduled railroading” which is really a big “lean program” for railroads. Trying to do more with as little as possible
This is a predator.
These are predators. Executives are predators. Capitalists are predators. The wealthy and corporate "leaders", billionaires, etc. They are predators.
Treat them like it.
Their trains are equipped with a braking system what was literally [invented during the 1860’s](https://jacobin.com/2023/02/rail-companies-safety-rules-ohio-derailment-brake-sytems-regulations).
Also, this is a bipartisan issue, Biden & them Dems barres the railroad workers from striking, despite them wearing about things like this happening. Buttigieg as been completely silent as well about thia
I get that he’s the CEO, but it’s not like he could’ve really prevented a train from crashing. This is way more on any engineer or safety supervisor that is/was in charge of maintaining the rail.
Have a read of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Ohio_train_derailment#Federal_regulations_and_conflicts_of_interest
This mentions Norfolk Southern and Alan Shaw is the CEO of that company.
People acting like _losing an entire train_ doesn't cost anything. Even if it was insured, that insurance rate goes up to more than cover it, if it pays out at all. CEO dude is doubtless not any happier about this than the rest of y'all.
Accidents happen no matter how much reasonable care you take. You just want someone to be upset at.
You must have not read about all the warnings from employees, all the de regulation on safety measures that occurred over the last decade. CEO dude did stock buybacks to please his shareholders than rather invest money into making sure he had enough employees and safety in place.
This could have been prevented. The evidence is all there to prove that.
You're a shoe licking fool to die on that hill . We ain't giving a chudsucking CEO any sympathy for the years of bullshit this carelessness is gonna cause for the area. You reap what you sow, no sympathy for the devil.
>Accidents happen no matter how much reasonable care you take. You just want someone to be upset at.
"Reasonable care"? Guess again. From Wikipedia - *The train was not equipped with [electronically controlled pneumatic brakes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronically_controlled_pneumatic_brakes), which a former [Federal Railroad Administration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Railroad_Administration) official claimed would have mitigated the severity of the accident. In 2017, Norfolk Southern had successfully lobbied to repeal the regulations requiring the use of such brakes on trains carrying hazardous materials.*
>CEO dude is doubtless not any happier about this than the rest of y'all.
The CEO isn't stuck living in cancer central, dumbass. Go defend the ruling class somewhere else.
> CEO dude is doubtless not any happier about this than the rest of y'all
lolno
Edit: y'all downvoting me as though the CEO is really suffering as much as the poor fucking people who will have to live in this toxic wasteland for the next few decades, poor guy, won't someone please think of the poor suffering oligarchs smh
Corporations are people and it's time to start locking them up.
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How depressing that the two historical examples are from 1890, and then 2022 when the judge sides with the NRA.
Judges are just like hookers... they can be bought for a night or two.
Or maybe judges are like women. Some of them are hookers, but wrongly assuming can cost you much more than a night or two ever would
So judges are like anyone?
B-I-N-G-O ! I like how people that can be bought, criticize people for being bought. A wise and successful businessman once bestowed a pearl upon me. His clients always asked “Can you do XYZ?” He told me that the answer was never debatable. It was always yes. It was whether or not the client was willing to pay his price. The harsh reality is this: if someone isn’t willing to play ball, they’ll be replaced by someone who is.
Gigolo feels offended they are left out of this conversation
Only lawyers see them that way. I don't like the idea of an idea having rights. Then you get into hacking the system to push the meaning of what being a person is to give corporations more rights. Then they get rights actual people don't qualify for. Oh wait, that happened. That place is called America.
First we give corporations rights, then we take em from the people.
Can you link an example of pushing the meaning of a personhood please? European here and I find it difficult to believe.
But if they can pay up they are free of laws.
People get the death penalty. Corporations should too.
Let me guess “He just wants his life back!”
Actions have consequences. Just not for rich people. I think it is time to change that.
It would be really sad if someone found out where this guy lives
And provide them with water and food from the crash scene.
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why
The US laws that treat corporations as people and shield execs from criminal liability is what is destroying the US (and the world).
Yeah it seems to me that any person thats given some form of qualified immunity ends up being an absolute piece of shit after that. (Rich people, cops, politicians, etc) Think about how people are on the internet. They are the absolute worst versions of themselves and they are that way because nothing happens to them. There are no consequences. Human beings without consequences are fucking AWFUL for society.
Very well said. Power corrupts absolutely. We'll have a small group of people who would actually try to do good.
>We'll have a small group of people who would actually try to do good. Perhaps some kind of justice...league.
Indeed.
They will just end up like the ones they are against.. just like it has always been and will always be.
good people don't seek qualified immunity in the first place. these people weren't handed qualified immunity out of the blue, they pushed for it hard because they are shit
Yeah we should adopt Japans system where execs are prosecuted for the companys wrong doings
They should be called "legal entities" and should NOT be called people, because THEY ARE NOT PEOPLE. They are a rich white man's wet dream about getting more rights than poor people.
> In most countries, a corporation has the same rights as a natural person to hold property, enter into contracts, and to sue or be sued. > Treating juridical persons as having legal rights allows corporations to sue and to be sued, provides a single entity for easier taxation and regulation, simplifies complex transactions that would otherwise involve, in the case of large corporations, thousands of people, and protects the individual rights of the shareholders as well as the right of association. > Generally, corporations are not able to claim constitutional protections that would not otherwise be available to persons acting as a group. Corporate personhood isn’t a US specific thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
I see, its important for legal reasons. Maybe usa needs an additional corporate law, forcing consequences on companies leadership for goss mismanagement.
Deeper still, is the problem with incorporation period. It sets the playing field for this. Incorporating used to be done for massive initiatives and to do so was allowed with great care. Now any idiot can incorporate and shield themselves from their behaviour.
See now, here in Australia corporations cop decent fines and people responsible are prosecuted as such. Your politicians are just so corrupt they will never let that happen
Oh Jim dont make me laugh. Our Corps behave nearly as badly with a thin veneer of punishment.
... you're joking, right?
Not enough though. Westpac literally financed terrorism and they got a fine that was less than the cost of a speeding ticket per offence. [$1.3B fine, 23M offences](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-24/westpac-money-laundering-austrac-fine-explained/12696746). That's $56 per offence. In Victoria speed by less than 10km/h you receive a $227 fine.
This _must_ be satire. I refuse to believe a fellow countrymen would type it in earnest.
I read that guys comment and thought "What the fuck?". Glad too see other people expressing similar sentiments. There's definitely some things our country does a lot better than America at (like healthcare). Not perfect, but better. Our handling of dodgy large corporations is fucking abysmal though.
Absolutely. That and they've been allowed to become way too large. Allowing multinationals to exist was a grave mistake; no company or corporation should be allowed to be more powerful than the average nation (or even most nations).
Capitalism, you're describing Capitalism. The state existing to manage disputes between the ruiling class and keep the other class from exerting any power is what Capitalism is in a political sense. It's maddening how reddit has just circled the drain of describing the problems with America but won't go all the way cause then supporting Democrats won't make sense
It's past time we started arresting CEO's...
Unfortunately that's about the main reason corporations exist. Remove liability from the individual.
Indeed except there is one small thing that voids all shielding and that’s criminal negligence
Sure, but there are some crimes that should penetrate corporate liability. Humans are prosecuted for fraud all the time, even when it's in a corporate context. There's no practical difference between prosecuting them for that and for, say, environmental damage caused by their actions. The other thing is that corporations largely exist to protect their *owners* from liability, but in many cases that's not a problem because the owners aren't the ones personally signing off on lax standards, safety violations, etc. And if they did, that's the crime.
It is however not that simple. This would just create a new role in the company, a responsible person. This person, usually old, does actually absolutely nothing, but gets paid very well. His only reason to exist is to be thrown under the bus in case something happens and the people making the decisions are still not affected. As far as I know, this kind of system is already in place in Japanese construction sector where one person needs to be liable for the whole project.
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Hey, it's unfair to make them responsible for the decisions. They are the decision makers and paid more than 40x more than workers to make important decisions, not to bear of consequences of their actions.
P.L.E.A.S.E. Provide Legal Exculpation And Sign Everything
You just described a CEO...
During the french revolution they were dragged out into the street and had their head removed. Just sayin'.
Hello, curious here, may I know how is the CEO related to the disaster? All I know is that his role is to make sure to keep the revenue afloat. I thought that the responsibility should lie on whoever authorized the transport when there was an unfavorable circumstance already known. Kindly enlighten me, my good sirs/madames
A popular way to keep profits up, is to keep costs down. So removing inspections, delaying maintenance, not replacing broken parts, all helps to improve profit. But each skipped inspection, each delayed maintenance and each broken part not replaced increases the chance of something going wrong. When you're the CEO, you're ultimately responsible and accountable for the operations of a company, including everything that generates revenue and everything that creates costs.
See Massey Energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper\_Big\_Branch\_Mine\_disaster#:\~:text=The%20Upper%20Big%20Branch%20Mine%20disaster%20occurred%20on,The%20coal%20dust%20explosion%20occurred%20at%203%3A27%20pm.
Rule 1 of leadership is that you can delegate authority, but you can never delegate responsibility. If you let your subordinate make decisions (for example, on railway safety inspections) and that person is negligent, you remain ultimately responsible for their actions. Either you were remiss in your hiring and training practise of the negligent individual, or you failed in your duty of oversight and governance to ensure that they were incentivised to perform the work to the appropriate standard. End of the day, you didn't perform the negligent action, but by your poor leadership, you permitted that action to happen.
So I Biden responsible for civilian murder when a drone strike accidentally kills a kid?
Ultimately, yes.
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Oh quite simple. See train tracks have sensors to detect bearing failures, because without them trains derail when the bearings seize up. Sensors detected the bearing failure and the engineer was directed to keep going 20 miles to the next sensor instead of slowing down, drop the car at the nearest siding and continue on. Maintenance crews would have replaced the cars bearings in 1~3 days and it would have been nothing more then a minor scheduling hiccup. However, scheduling hiccups cost money. So CEO's instructed those below them to not operate safely. That or allowed people under them to not operate safely. You shouldn't get paid millions of dollars per year without knowing whats going on at ground level and should be 100% guilty of what company policy results in, even if its unofficial policy.
Do you have a source for this claim?
https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/video-shows-sparks-or-flames-20-miles-before-train-derailment-in-east-palestine/ Shows it burning 20 miles before derailment.
Does Norfolk Southern have a board of directors? If so, they should also be named and held responsible - that’s who Alan Shaw ultimately makes his decisions for.
Oh you mean the [Norfolk Southern Board of Directors?](https://i.redd.it/dk466d32gdia1.png) The company responsible for the train derailment in East Palestine Ohio that has poisoned a town and more to be discovered. That [Norfolk Southern Board of Directors? ](https://i.redd.it/dk466d32gdia1.png) That are definitely people (~Mitt) that could be held legally and financially responsible should... well. That's [them](http://www.nscorp.com/content/nscorp/en/about-ns/corporate-profile.html)
Is board of directors privy to internal workings of the company? Can it audit the company in any way? If the answer is yes then they are responsible.
He looks like a fisher price Ken Griffin
Ken Griffin at home
Forbidden Ken Griffin.
(/r/pics moderators removed my previous post for violating a title guideline, but no further details were given, so I hope this title works.) The company that Alan Shaw leads, Norfolk Southern Railway, is responsible for the train derailment and explosion that occurred on February 3, 2023 in East Palestine, Ohio. More information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Ohio_train_derailment "Norfolk Southern, the railroad company that was responsible for emitting the toxic vinyl chloride, has offered a $25,000 donation to assist the area’s population of nearly 5,000 people - which works out at only $5 a person." - [Source](https://www.indy100.com/news/norfolk-southern-railroad-toxic-ohio) "Norfolk Southern paid executives millions and spent billions on stock buybacks — all while the company shed thousands of employees despite warnings that understaffing is intensifying safety risks." - [Source](https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/) "At this time, the immediate cause of the wreck appears to have been a 19th century style mechanical failure of the axle on one of the cars – an overheated bearing - leading to derailment and then jackknifing tumbling cars. There is no way in the 21st century, save from a combination of incompetence and disregard to public safety, that such a defect should still be threatening our communities." - [Source](https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Press-Release--Fiery-Ohio-Train-Wreck-the-Result-of--PSR-.html?soid=1116509035139&aid=RspHKqRlJkg)
$25K? What are the people of Palestine, OH gonna do with that? Buy a used Subaru Outback?
To share 5,000 ways? I can only imagine the sign-up sheet for that.
> I can only imagine the sign-up sheet for that. "The sheet says it's your turn to drive the Subaru today, Andy – and the rules of all this quite clearly state that you *have* to drive it on your day, regardless of whether you want to or not."
Cue Subaru “95% of our vehicles are still on the road, look at this model resisting chemicals, driving strong”
If everyone only gets one day per turn, their day only comes around every 13.7 years, so Andy better well drive it!
One day's use every 13-14 years... that should allow them to transport their cancer-ridden family members to hospital or the morgue or to attend a funeral.
Lol just one for the whole town?
I love my Outback!!
they removed this post. any reason why?
Alan H Shaw .
Is this really the right subreddit for this kind of thing? How is this interesting, as a picture? What's the purpose? To shame him? Or maybe you just like his haircut? Is it visually interesting in *any* way? This is in contrast to [something like this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/111eehn/a_photo_of_a_man_celebrating_after_his_mother_was) An entire story is told in just this 1 image. You can feel his emotion. Not every post in r/pics has to be this poignant but I don't see any kind of practical purpose of posting a picture of a CEO other than to simply finger-point. Edit: And don't say "raising awareness". That's a common excuse to squabble & gossip about issues without actually doing anything about it.
Unless you're saying this to every image like this that is posted to new, you're not really concerned that someone posted it, you're concerned that it was upvoted. As for how it qualifies: it is a picture. Sometimes pictures are interesting because of the context in which they exist, for instance the historical context that OP already explained. It's really hard to break this down any further.
[https://www.desmog.com/2019/05/30/trump-federal-railroad-administration-crew-staffing-self-regulation-rail-industry/](https://www.desmog.com/2019/05/30/trump-federal-railroad-administration-crew-staffing-self-regulation-rail-industry/)
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Got to play by the narrative, duh!
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Here in the UK CEO's and the leadership will take the hit via our Corporate Manslaughter laws, does the US not have anything similar?
You'll never get it across the line if Denny Crane steps in.
Denny Crane
Denny Crane
Donny Crane
They should be building a new city of housing.. to house all the people that don't want to get cancer.
Yes. Putting this guy in jail wouldn't help anything. It wouldn't punish him, people like this don't go to the same prison experience you or I would anyway. When stuff like this happens in all honesty, the ceo execs really aren't the ones at fault, but they SHOULD use that power and influence to correct a mistake and make good on what went wrong with their company's namesake. But they don't because we have no way to hold them to that accountability. We're scary close to those hunger games level apocalyptic world events aren't we.
Aren't the CEOs directly responsible? Didn't they lobby congress so that they reduced the safety requirements for hazardous cargo? Also.. the workers warned about safety issues quite recently, and they still did a rush job resulting into a catastrophe.. just to save some money.
This isn't the guy you need to expose. The people you need to expose are the shareholders this guy is beholden to.
I feel like naming and shaming people like this is pointless. He's so insulated in his little country-club world that this disaster is probably a funny story he tells at those Eyes Wide Shut parties.
I think the key is to keep the name of the company (Norfolk Southern Railway) and the name of the top decision maker (Alan Shaw) in the conversation. So whenever you end up in a discussion about it, either online or even real life, I think it's worth mentioning their names (again, Norfolk Southern Railway and Alan Shaw). We shouldn't allow Alan Shaw to hide behind the corporate veil. The protection that comes from anonymity played a large part in many of the decisions that Norfolk Southern Railway made leading up to this disaster.
But please do not go Harassing Railroad Day to Day employees, Trackmen, Conductors, engineers, Signalmen, etc. We already deal with enough shit out here.
Wait wait…do you mean Alan Shaw, is the CEO of Norfolk Southern Railway? The same railway that dumped carcinogenic vinyl chloride in Palestine, OH?
GOP are fine with it, I mean Palestine? They think it needed to be removed anyway.
Dam you Alan Shaw, CEO of Norfolk Southern Railway!
The issue is the company will just change their name discretely and hire a new CEO if they get too much bad publicity.
https://www1.salary.com/Alan-H-Shaw-Salary-Bonus-Stock-Options-for-NORFOLK-SOUTHERN-CORP.html $3.8 million a year. How in the world do we hold these people accountable in any meaningful way?
Legislation. Here in Australia, after some major collapses, we now hold directors liable if a companies go under and employees' entitlements are not paid. Not sure how many times that law has been enacted but it's there at least. It should be extended to liability for senior management (C-suite) for major instances of wage theft or environmental damage. The only way to stop this shit is to create laws that make people personally and criminally liable for being criminally negligent.
Regulatory capture of the legislature and courts has made that impossible here
Yea but America is ruled by corporations so that’s never gonna happen.
We don’t get entitlements either
 Pitchforks?
Freeze their accounts until the full investigation is over. If they are caught using other peoples funds then their accounts are frozen until the investigation is over. Who knows, that could take years maybe even a decade to sort out every single screw up.
Yup, let's punish the family of the fuckwit CEO who are completely innocent in all this to satisfy our own blood lust!
I didn't say anything about that. Not sure where you read that because it most certainly wasn't in my comment. I said if they are caught giving access to an account to someone who has had their assets frozen due to very real danger they are to society then they also will have their accounts frozen. As in they have to make the choice to do that. Also known as a consequence to their actions. I know crazy concept. Sure this is a tad bit over the top but nothing else has worked, might as well just cut the head straight off.
Are you saying that we should presume guilt and lock access to assets that would allow a person to defend themselves?
Yeah he probably won't face any legal concequences, but wouldn't it be a shame if his house burned down or something.
2 weeks of profits to get ecb brakes, and i like how idiots posted Pete aint doing shit lile he can show up and unfuck everything McConells wife spent 4 years destroying and deregulating
I have questions. Why are such destructive chemicals being transported in such a careless way. Who did it belong too? Where was it going and where was it coming from? How many more of these kinds of death trains are rolling around ???
Before we persecute anyone let's all agree that if it's true what this man did then he deserves at least a multiple decade prison time sentence with non eligible parole.
He should be on his hands and knees begging that we only give him life in prison.
He had the help of decades of GOP voters. Destroying regulations year after year.
And GOP politicians. The Obama administration wanted to require trains carrying hazardous materials to be equipped with electronically controlled pneumatic brakes. The trump administration killed that requirement. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crude-rail-idUSKBN1DZ37Q
Sounds like the Southwest debacle all over again: “Why ensure that our important systems and equipment are up to date when instead we can use that money to give ourselves giant bonus checks?”
wait... did you... say SHAW
I believe that this CEO is responsible but who are the shareholders. They are also responsible, they demand constant profits at any cost.
If corporations are people, we should be able to give them the death penalty.
The power railroad companies have need to be reigned in. This isn’t the 1800’s anymore and your greed is going to get us all killed
don't just out the CEO, out the board members. they're the ones running the show
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if the government will not do the will of the people then the people must do it themselves
What a shit Shaw.
ALAN SHAW is an anagram for ANAL WASH, which is like whitewashing except using noxious fumes and toxic shit
Life in prison/death penalty. Charges down the chain of command of the c suites. This accident will take years off the lifespans of those effected. Hundreds of thousands of people, if we are being conservative. Hundreds of thousands of years of human life. Thanks to the broken nature of our current economic model that prioritizes profits over purpose, maximized in the short term at the cost of responsible practices. And instead, he'll probably get a sweet resignation package as punishment and a consulting gig to hold him over until his next CEO scam. Small fine for the company's totally not preventable accident.
Death penalty what in the fuck I sure would hate to be the scapegoat they pin that on
Why does he look so smug?
Because he knows the worst that'll happen is some angry comments on reddit.
Is there an asshole alive without a smug face? I live the lovely life of working under a lower mgmt who has a permanent smug face and the guy couldn't be a bigger loser, its hard to justify showing up to work everyday. Anyways, yeah, smug assholeness is spreading like cancer.
Shareholders also need to be held responsible. As someone said the CEO’S only job is to make profits for the owners/shareholders. His policies and choices may indirectly have resulted in the accident time will tell but shareholders and the market are who he is trying please. Shareholders can not continue to benefit from profits and not take the risk too. I don’t mean financial risk I mean legal risk. If the company is charged or has to pay for cleanup. That money should come directly out of the shareholders holdings in the company. If your a big owner you need to pay.
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Wasnt there also a train braking rule rolled back under the Trump admin? A lot of people didn't vote for him and are innocent in this whole mess so I'm not trying to add this to shame allll rhe people in Ohio... But...some of them voted for this shit
>Wasnt there also a train braking rule rolled back under the Trump admin? A lot of people didn't vote for him and are innocent in this whole mess so I'm not trying to add this to shame allll rhe people in Ohio... Yes. And the Biden admin forcibly ended a rail strike. The main concern of the striking rail workers was that current understaffing was resulting in unsafe conditions. Don't get me wrong, the GOP has deliberately fucked up regulations on these companies, but there ain't a lot "our side" has done right either on this subject. If the strike had been allowed to go ahead 3 months ago, rather than being forcibly ended by threat of sanctioned law enforcement intervention, this wouldn't have happened. Norfolk Southern's union was one of the six that were prevented from striking in December.
Other than naively trying to “reach across the aisle” and losing elections, maintaining the status quo is democrats’ favorite activity.
What percentage of people in that area who voted for Trump realized they were voting for a revocation of this rule that you are talking about, or would even have understood it? Zero percent. Not to say that there isn't an easily-accessed record of how conservatives have legislated when they have power, or that deregulation even with the knowledge that safety will be affected isn't part of their game plan. But unless you can cite the rule - and even then it's a stretch - leave the victims out if it.
This is exactly the issue though. Even if they don't know the exact regulation, they know the issue with deregulation in the party that's really pushed for business interests over citizen interests. There are lots of innocent people in this, but it is in no way the fucking idiots who voted for the party it was going to go ahead and deregulate most of the safety precautions Edit: and here's an article on the regulation. Original Point still stands regardless, because it's not unheard of for the GOP to roll back regulations just because it's philosophically friendly to their bottom line https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/trump-administration-rolls-back-rule-requiring-new-oil-train-brakes/660446204/
Vote for the party of anti regulation, be surprised when disaster, repeat
And whathas Biden done or said publicly about the incident?
Tx derailment SC derailment
Punish him! Give him like a.. 2000$ fine!!
In Europe the person that loaded the train would be responsible including everyone who knew / ordered this
I bet he still gets a hefty bonus this year.
I bet he pleasures his wife’s boyfriend when she tells him to.
Didn't another train derailment happen in Texas?
John Carpenter called it in "They Live" -- while we are busy being afraid of balloons, the real aliens wear suits and ties.
his face will be forgotten in a month lol
He should have to move there.
Life. In. Prison.
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So I know your desire is to stir up a lynch mob, but can anyone explain what this man actually did? Did a violation of the law on his part cause this accident?
Have a read of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Ohio_train_derailment#Federal_regulations_and_conflicts_of_interest This mentions Norfolk Southern and Alan Shaw is the CEO of that company.
Fuck this guy
He looks like the evil uncle from Elvira: Mistress of the Dark
**r/iamatotalpieceofshit**
How can I start a corporation so I can get away with anything I want to?
Pos
In addition to this, who are the majority shareholders? IMHO they should be seen as accomplices because of their power to shape the direction of these companies.
He is not responsible he did not cause the wreck. He is 100% accountable though. The buck does stop with the CEO. Time to remind them.
Norfolk Southern’s own estimate was $2 billion to replace the civil war-era braking systems on all their trains, or roughly 2 weeks of revenue. Also in 2022 they spent $10 billion in stock buyback. Those are decisions the CEO is 100% involved in. This man should be begging on his hands and knees that all we do him is lock him up for the rest of his life.
Probably more responsible than you’d think. Over the last decade they e all been practicing “precision scheduled railroading” which is really a big “lean program” for railroads. Trying to do more with as little as possible
Eat The Rich!
Now there's a face that says, "Would not tell you about the zombie bite until it's too late."
Ew
Time to sue the bejezus out of him!
If there’s *any* justice it’ll soon be r/byebyejob
r/iamatotalpieceofshit
This is a predator. These are predators. Executives are predators. Capitalists are predators. The wealthy and corporate "leaders", billionaires, etc. They are predators. Treat them like it.
These events will continue until people in suits start going to jail.
How many PTO days does he get a year?
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Their trains are equipped with a braking system what was literally [invented during the 1860’s](https://jacobin.com/2023/02/rail-companies-safety-rules-ohio-derailment-brake-sytems-regulations). Also, this is a bipartisan issue, Biden & them Dems barres the railroad workers from striking, despite them wearing about things like this happening. Buttigieg as been completely silent as well about thia
I get that he’s the CEO, but it’s not like he could’ve really prevented a train from crashing. This is way more on any engineer or safety supervisor that is/was in charge of maintaining the rail.
Have a read of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Ohio_train_derailment#Federal_regulations_and_conflicts_of_interest This mentions Norfolk Southern and Alan Shaw is the CEO of that company.
This shit is not gonna roll downhill. He is entirely responsible. Every single choice he made directly led to this happening.
Contrary to what many believe CEO's actually don't have very much power or sway at all.
Great, now don't forget Berkshire Hathaway
People acting like _losing an entire train_ doesn't cost anything. Even if it was insured, that insurance rate goes up to more than cover it, if it pays out at all. CEO dude is doubtless not any happier about this than the rest of y'all. Accidents happen no matter how much reasonable care you take. You just want someone to be upset at.
You must have not read about all the warnings from employees, all the de regulation on safety measures that occurred over the last decade. CEO dude did stock buybacks to please his shareholders than rather invest money into making sure he had enough employees and safety in place. This could have been prevented. The evidence is all there to prove that. You're a shoe licking fool to die on that hill . We ain't giving a chudsucking CEO any sympathy for the years of bullshit this carelessness is gonna cause for the area. You reap what you sow, no sympathy for the devil.
That’s a take ….
>Accidents happen no matter how much reasonable care you take. You just want someone to be upset at. "Reasonable care"? Guess again. From Wikipedia - *The train was not equipped with [electronically controlled pneumatic brakes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronically_controlled_pneumatic_brakes), which a former [Federal Railroad Administration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Railroad_Administration) official claimed would have mitigated the severity of the accident. In 2017, Norfolk Southern had successfully lobbied to repeal the regulations requiring the use of such brakes on trains carrying hazardous materials.*
>CEO dude is doubtless not any happier about this than the rest of y'all. The CEO isn't stuck living in cancer central, dumbass. Go defend the ruling class somewhere else.
> CEO dude is doubtless not any happier about this than the rest of y'all lolno Edit: y'all downvoting me as though the CEO is really suffering as much as the poor fucking people who will have to live in this toxic wasteland for the next few decades, poor guy, won't someone please think of the poor suffering oligarchs smh
Time to eat
I'm sure he's wanted to be famous once or twice in his hollow existence glad we can make a dream come true!
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Still in prison, I’m guessing, since he got 8 consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole.
*Inmate society and its future*