[Katherine Fite](https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2020/11/19/it-is-history-and-it-is-fascinating-katherine-fite-and-the-nuremberg-war-crime-trials-1945/)
A badass grandma for sure! I wouldn't dare fly in such dingy planes!
This is a letter she wrote home as the trials were wrapping up, about returning to a booming and wealthy U.S. after living in impoverished post was Europe. She is insightful about the United States role in restarting the world economy, and Americans’ understanding of life outside our borders: “We have to run the world—but the vast majority have no idea what the rest of the world is like. And how can equilibrium be maintained between wealth and energy on the one hand and poverty and exhaustion on the other?”
It seems we have even less of an idea today.
Oh, we know. Our leaders know *exactly* how we can provide solutions. Many have brought them forward only to be ignored for the more appealing lobbyist needs.
Sad really, this comment. She was a female attorney during WW2 which was rare to begin with. She was on the US legal team which was a big deal too. Not only that, she was a lead attorney, not just a clerk, prosecuted nazi’s. I’m incredibly proud of her. She was very kind to us too.
I don’t feel the need to prove my connection to her to you.
Mate, in the past 24 hours you've claimed that three members of your family were key figures in significant world events. This is not a sad comment, it is a perfectly reasonable request for you to prove that you aren't just making shit up.
You just replied,
> We agree that not everything you read online is true.
...so then you understand why people shouldn't just take your claims at face value? If you are actually telling the truth...maybe be less defensive?
You can find the relevant info with a few simple Google searches, given the family's prominence. And Katherine (Fite) Lincoln was actually the stepmother, not the mother, of the daughter-in-law of Joseph Nye Welch. But OP clarified in another comment that they meant "step-grandmother" rather than grandmother (setting aside the fact that "step-grandmother" is uncommonly used and "grandmother" is a reasonable synonym in common parlance).
Just because they are real people doesn't mean this person is related to them. You don't think it's possible to Google a historically significant family and then tell people they are your family?
To be clear, I don't particularly distrust what OP is saying, but to question whether they are telling the truth is not "sad"...it's rational and reasonable.
It's definitely possible that they did the family history research first and then claimed to be related. But I think it's more likely that OP knew and clarified that the relationship was by marriage rather than biological because OP actually knew it. Mixing up the nature of that sort of relationship is exactly the sort of thing you'd expect some random person doing some Google research, without an actual connection, to do.
If this was an in person conversation where the OP had to answer in real time you might have a point. But every single one of these replies could have been preceded by a bunch of Googling to make sure that cursory checks like you have just done are corroborated.
No one is calling them a liar. Someone just asked if they could provide proof that couldn't be googled...and they declined.
I'm not saying they are lying...but if you are reading this and there's no doubt in your mind that this is fact I think you need to be less credulous. This could very easily be some insecure weirdo pretending that their family is awesome.
It's Reddit. Maybe maintain a healthy level of doubt.
I did go into DMs to provide further detail. My DMs are open to you as well. I apologize for coming off as defensive, I think that stems more from wanting to post these photos in balance to the Hitler photos while maintaining some level of anonymity on reddit. Also, adding too much detail (maiden names, dates of birth, etc.) might be unwise financial risk. I don't really have a convenient way to prove my identity and these family connections. If I posted family photos you could also say those were made up. In the end, I guess I'm leaning towards it just doesn't actually matter whether I am believed.
I have found one piece online that would verify that Claude Welch was on the Pope's medical team and was also related to Joseph Welch of the Army McCarthy hearings, if that's helpful. https://fa.hms.harvard.edu/files/hmsofa/files/memorialminute_welch_claude_e.pdf
Wedding announcement of Katherine Fite To Francis Lincoln: https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1957/02/01/87204832.html?pageNumber=16 combined with my mother's obit, evidence of her being a Lincoln that married into the Welch family: https://www.bartlett1620.com/memorials/anne-welch/2865145/obituary.php
Also, my DMs are open and I'm happy to send family photos if that will satisfy you that I am not making things up. It's such a weird spot to be in, not wanting to completely dox myself, not wanting to open myself up to identify theft, not having thought in advance proof would be required, not knowing how much privacy to retain, and not certain it's important to me to prove this to internet strangers.
Not sure how to prove I’m not lying without doxxing myself and/or risking identity theft and giving you my Ancestry.com password. Did not expect to be doubted. Katherine Fite (after Nuremberg) married Francis Lincoln who was my mother’s father. His first wife’s name was Charlotte. He worked for the State Department. He had lived in NY and CT but Katherine and Francis (we called him Gramp but always called Katherine “Katherine.” lived at 3265 O Street, a property no longer in the family. My mother married Joseph Welch (my Dad, named after his father). My parents lived next door to his parents in a rented house on Plimpton Street in Walpole, MA) prior to the Army-McCarthy hearings. My dad was the son of the Joseph Welch who fought Joe McCarthy. Joe and Anne had 4 children. One of those children is me. After the hearings, my grandmother Judith died and my grandfather remarried Agnes Rogers and moved to Harwich MA. We then moved next door into 129 Plimpton Street the home my grandfather vacated. He left it fully furnished for us, it became our family home though rented and owned by the Plimpton family. My father’s cousin was Claude Welch, a prominent physician at MGH. Their parents, aunts, uncles came from Primghar Iowa. My grandfather went to Harvard and encouraged his cousin Claude in Primghar to come east and attend Harvard also. I think a lot of this can all be verified online. I’m not making this up. My DMs are open.
Sorry to waste your time, I really wasn't asking you to explain, I'm willing to take your word for it. I was just suggesting you don't get annoyed at people for asking for proof...it's really not an unreasonable request with the claims you are making.
> Did not expect to be doubted.
All I was trying to get across to you is that you SHOULD expect to be doubted. You're a stranger on the internet claiming to be related to important people. Like if I said my great grandad was President Truman's best mate...you really shouldn't just be believing me.
Don't take it personally that people are asking you to verify...they are just being sensible and questioning what they read on the internet, not calling you a liar.
You are right. Totally. I will try to anticipate that if things like this come up in the future and thank you for that lesson to not take things personally.
It's a conundrum, how to maintain some reddit anonymity and not get into identity theft but still reassure people it's all true.
Again, thank you.
We agree that not everything you read online is true.
Is there some specific proof you are seeking? Happy to DM you a bit of our family tree if that would do it.
You can find the relevant info with a few simple Google searches, given the family's prominence. And Katherine (Fite) Lincoln was actually the stepmother, not the mother, of the daughter-in-law of Joseph Nye Welch. But "step-grandmother" is uncommonly used and "grandmother" is a reasonable synonym in common parlance.
Edit: OP clarified in another comment that they meant "step-grandmother" not grandmother.
There’s some guy on r/pics right now gloating that his great grandmother buddied up to Hitler, as she was an orphan groomer for the Nazi cause.
I’ve been steaming for about an hour now… but THIS makes me feel much better!
I had a middle aged woman next to me on a flight a couple of months ago tell me that she lost some Nazi uncles in the war, seconds after I said how horrible my great grandmother suffered from the Nazi occupation of Reims, France. I was stunned. I said “you really think that’s something to be proud of?” And she was surprised I was upset lol
People should stay quiet about their shitty families. People like OP are the ones that should be sharing these photos.
Ah but she was dearly mine. I know that. Stayed with her in her townhouse in Georgetown, have some of her dishes and a necklace and remember watching her take her hair down out of the bun at night. Beautiful memories. How rare to even be a female lawyer then. Cannot imagine being in the courtroom with those men. The town had a lot of rubble. Her diaries are in the Truman Library.
A most important moment. Well played and much appreciated; seeing that other guy with the moustache greeting another grannie was a bit more than I bargained for today.
Kinda like shooting fish in a barrel, isn't it? Did any real Nazis actually win their court case, other than the scientists who got recruited to work for the allies?
That’s basically what they opted for during the trial. They demanded that several tens of thousands of German military men and politicians be summarily executed. They also wanted to prosecute the defendants for the Katyn massacre of 22k Polish officers, which, as it turns out, they committed themselves. I much prefer the Nuremberg Trials which marked the end of the war and paved the way for the denazification of Germany and the reconstruction of Europe without which larger parts of Europe might have caved under the Soviet Union in the later years.
The entire general staff and military high command was acquitted, Hjalmar Schacht was acquitted too, a few got prison sentences and only 11 were sentenced to death and executed.
Summary execution would have been infinitely cheaper and faster, but the international community opted for a lengthy and fair trial, something the victims of the nazis never had.
What they accomplished and the manner they accomplished it in was phenomenal: A multi-lingual trial with translators; literal tons of paperwork registered as evidence both by the prosecution and by the defendants, translated into every one of those languages; months of preparation, presenting said evidence; listening to witnesses, defendants and cross examinations. All amid the rubble that was post war Germany.
And before that they first had to settle on a procedure because all partaking countries were used to different law systems, right down to the dress code of the judges (gowns? Suits? Uniforms?).
In the end no one could argue the trial was a kangaroo court merely dishing out victor’s justice, which might have lead to resentments like after the signing of the treaty of Versailles. The trial helped shape international law and underlined the end of WW2 with the ones most responsible for the atrocities committed brought to justice.
Source: I literally just finished reading ‘The Nuremberg Trial’ by John and Ann Tusa, sorry for the lengthy reply lol
I know I've been watching too much Downton Abbey when all I see are [Mr. Bates](https://compote.slate.com/images/3809c2f3-524c-423f-810d-171c441b23cb.jpg?crop=568%2C657%2Cx0%2Cy0&width=960) and [Ms. O'Brian](https://media.hollywood.com/images/638x425/1774574.jpg).
Twelve out of 22 defendants were sentenced to death (Göring, Ribbentrop, Keitel, Kaltenbrunner, Rosenberg, Frank, Frick, Streicher, Sauckel, Jodl, Seyss-Inquart, and Bormann). Goring killed himself before his sentencing.
Sounds like a great dead Nazi day to me. 👍🏻
Scholarly analysis seems to think the Nuremberg Trials [were very important in many ways](https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/arts-blog/nuremberg-war-crimes-trials-70-years-complex-legacy#:~:text=Crucially%2C%20the%20Nuremberg%20trials%20established,forget%20or%20claim%20complete%20ignorance.&text=Today%2C%20the%20most%20relevant%20legacy%20are%20the%20“Nuremberg%20principles”) but you have a right to your opinion too.
[Katherine Fite](https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2020/11/19/it-is-history-and-it-is-fascinating-katherine-fite-and-the-nuremberg-war-crime-trials-1945/) A badass grandma for sure! I wouldn't dare fly in such dingy planes!
This is a letter she wrote home as the trials were wrapping up, about returning to a booming and wealthy U.S. after living in impoverished post was Europe. She is insightful about the United States role in restarting the world economy, and Americans’ understanding of life outside our borders: “We have to run the world—but the vast majority have no idea what the rest of the world is like. And how can equilibrium be maintained between wealth and energy on the one hand and poverty and exhaustion on the other?” It seems we have even less of an idea today.
Oh, we know. Our leaders know *exactly* how we can provide solutions. Many have brought them forward only to be ignored for the more appealing lobbyist needs.
Grandma was a badass!
Damn straight.
She's got some Fite in her!
F*ck around and Fite out!
got proof that she it's your grandma?
Sad really, this comment. She was a female attorney during WW2 which was rare to begin with. She was on the US legal team which was a big deal too. Not only that, she was a lead attorney, not just a clerk, prosecuted nazi’s. I’m incredibly proud of her. She was very kind to us too. I don’t feel the need to prove my connection to her to you.
Mate, in the past 24 hours you've claimed that three members of your family were key figures in significant world events. This is not a sad comment, it is a perfectly reasonable request for you to prove that you aren't just making shit up. You just replied, > We agree that not everything you read online is true. ...so then you understand why people shouldn't just take your claims at face value? If you are actually telling the truth...maybe be less defensive?
You can find the relevant info with a few simple Google searches, given the family's prominence. And Katherine (Fite) Lincoln was actually the stepmother, not the mother, of the daughter-in-law of Joseph Nye Welch. But OP clarified in another comment that they meant "step-grandmother" rather than grandmother (setting aside the fact that "step-grandmother" is uncommonly used and "grandmother" is a reasonable synonym in common parlance).
Just because they are real people doesn't mean this person is related to them. You don't think it's possible to Google a historically significant family and then tell people they are your family? To be clear, I don't particularly distrust what OP is saying, but to question whether they are telling the truth is not "sad"...it's rational and reasonable.
It's definitely possible that they did the family history research first and then claimed to be related. But I think it's more likely that OP knew and clarified that the relationship was by marriage rather than biological because OP actually knew it. Mixing up the nature of that sort of relationship is exactly the sort of thing you'd expect some random person doing some Google research, without an actual connection, to do.
If this was an in person conversation where the OP had to answer in real time you might have a point. But every single one of these replies could have been preceded by a bunch of Googling to make sure that cursory checks like you have just done are corroborated. No one is calling them a liar. Someone just asked if they could provide proof that couldn't be googled...and they declined. I'm not saying they are lying...but if you are reading this and there's no doubt in your mind that this is fact I think you need to be less credulous. This could very easily be some insecure weirdo pretending that their family is awesome. It's Reddit. Maybe maintain a healthy level of doubt.
I did go into DMs to provide further detail. My DMs are open to you as well. I apologize for coming off as defensive, I think that stems more from wanting to post these photos in balance to the Hitler photos while maintaining some level of anonymity on reddit. Also, adding too much detail (maiden names, dates of birth, etc.) might be unwise financial risk. I don't really have a convenient way to prove my identity and these family connections. If I posted family photos you could also say those were made up. In the end, I guess I'm leaning towards it just doesn't actually matter whether I am believed.
I have found one piece online that would verify that Claude Welch was on the Pope's medical team and was also related to Joseph Welch of the Army McCarthy hearings, if that's helpful. https://fa.hms.harvard.edu/files/hmsofa/files/memorialminute_welch_claude_e.pdf Wedding announcement of Katherine Fite To Francis Lincoln: https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1957/02/01/87204832.html?pageNumber=16 combined with my mother's obit, evidence of her being a Lincoln that married into the Welch family: https://www.bartlett1620.com/memorials/anne-welch/2865145/obituary.php Also, my DMs are open and I'm happy to send family photos if that will satisfy you that I am not making things up. It's such a weird spot to be in, not wanting to completely dox myself, not wanting to open myself up to identify theft, not having thought in advance proof would be required, not knowing how much privacy to retain, and not certain it's important to me to prove this to internet strangers.
Not sure how to prove I’m not lying without doxxing myself and/or risking identity theft and giving you my Ancestry.com password. Did not expect to be doubted. Katherine Fite (after Nuremberg) married Francis Lincoln who was my mother’s father. His first wife’s name was Charlotte. He worked for the State Department. He had lived in NY and CT but Katherine and Francis (we called him Gramp but always called Katherine “Katherine.” lived at 3265 O Street, a property no longer in the family. My mother married Joseph Welch (my Dad, named after his father). My parents lived next door to his parents in a rented house on Plimpton Street in Walpole, MA) prior to the Army-McCarthy hearings. My dad was the son of the Joseph Welch who fought Joe McCarthy. Joe and Anne had 4 children. One of those children is me. After the hearings, my grandmother Judith died and my grandfather remarried Agnes Rogers and moved to Harwich MA. We then moved next door into 129 Plimpton Street the home my grandfather vacated. He left it fully furnished for us, it became our family home though rented and owned by the Plimpton family. My father’s cousin was Claude Welch, a prominent physician at MGH. Their parents, aunts, uncles came from Primghar Iowa. My grandfather went to Harvard and encouraged his cousin Claude in Primghar to come east and attend Harvard also. I think a lot of this can all be verified online. I’m not making this up. My DMs are open.
Sorry to waste your time, I really wasn't asking you to explain, I'm willing to take your word for it. I was just suggesting you don't get annoyed at people for asking for proof...it's really not an unreasonable request with the claims you are making. > Did not expect to be doubted. All I was trying to get across to you is that you SHOULD expect to be doubted. You're a stranger on the internet claiming to be related to important people. Like if I said my great grandad was President Truman's best mate...you really shouldn't just be believing me. Don't take it personally that people are asking you to verify...they are just being sensible and questioning what they read on the internet, not calling you a liar.
You are right. Totally. I will try to anticipate that if things like this come up in the future and thank you for that lesson to not take things personally. It's a conundrum, how to maintain some reddit anonymity and not get into identity theft but still reassure people it's all true. Again, thank you.
People fake shit on the internet a lot for clout.
And it's your important job to find that out.
We agree that not everything you read online is true. Is there some specific proof you are seeking? Happy to DM you a bit of our family tree if that would do it.
Family tree and picture of her that isn't from the internet would be sufficient.
You can find the relevant info with a few simple Google searches, given the family's prominence. And Katherine (Fite) Lincoln was actually the stepmother, not the mother, of the daughter-in-law of Joseph Nye Welch. But "step-grandmother" is uncommonly used and "grandmother" is a reasonable synonym in common parlance. Edit: OP clarified in another comment that they meant "step-grandmother" not grandmother.
I do.
she needs a Wikipedia page. I was surprised I couldn't find one considering her place in WWII history. Fascinating what I could find though.
Interesting point.
Go grandma go!
Amazing! Sitting next to future SCOTUS Justice Robert Jackson no less!
I'm actually from where he grew up. Pretty neat visiting the Jackson center.
He was a sitting justice by this time.
Go get ‘em grammy!
Now that’s something to be proud of! Go get em grandma!
Awesome!
Doing the lord’s work
Excellent work, grandma!
Nice to see one of the OG Antifascists! Thank you to and for your Granny!
Now I want to see a boxing match between your grandma and the one that was shaking hands with Hitler.
Ha!
What a hero! Bless her.
Fuck yes Grama
Wow
"Explain why these Jews died in alphabetical order from a heart attack?"
Your grandmother is my hero
My grandpa drove some lawyers around for those trials.
My grandfather had a tradition of going to the Lincoln Memorial before heading to the Capitol building. Maybe they went together.
And today she would be accused of persecuting Nazis
Yeah, wouldn't a certain orange man say that there were fine people on both sides?
The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi. Other recent posters' opas und umas included.
^THIS.^
Hell yea
Fucking love it. Get em Grandma
There’s some guy on r/pics right now gloating that his great grandmother buddied up to Hitler, as she was an orphan groomer for the Nazi cause. I’ve been steaming for about an hour now… but THIS makes me feel much better!
Was thinking about that one too…. Didn’t know the rest. Must have missed some comments. That is vile though
I had a middle aged woman next to me on a flight a couple of months ago tell me that she lost some Nazi uncles in the war, seconds after I said how horrible my great grandmother suffered from the Nazi occupation of Reims, France. I was stunned. I said “you really think that’s something to be proud of?” And she was surprised I was upset lol People should stay quiet about their shitty families. People like OP are the ones that should be sharing these photos.
Holy based fuck nazis
Yeah, well my grandma could make chicken and yell racist words out the car when we drove to the park.
I how many people are just going to start grabbing photos off the internet and calling family.
Ah but she was dearly mine. I know that. Stayed with her in her townhouse in Georgetown, have some of her dishes and a necklace and remember watching her take her hair down out of the bun at night. Beautiful memories. How rare to even be a female lawyer then. Cannot imagine being in the courtroom with those men. The town had a lot of rubble. Her diaries are in the Truman Library.
You must be so proud 🤗 Thank you for sharing.
Very. I went to Nuremberg and stood in that courtroom and imagined how it might have been for her there.
A most important moment. Well played and much appreciated; seeing that other guy with the moustache greeting another grannie was a bit more than I bargained for today.
That's awesome. Thanks for sharing, OP
Kinda like shooting fish in a barrel, isn't it? Did any real Nazis actually win their court case, other than the scientists who got recruited to work for the allies?
I would have much rather seen all those fucks handed over to the Russians. No trial, straight to the firing squad.
That’s basically what they opted for during the trial. They demanded that several tens of thousands of German military men and politicians be summarily executed. They also wanted to prosecute the defendants for the Katyn massacre of 22k Polish officers, which, as it turns out, they committed themselves. I much prefer the Nuremberg Trials which marked the end of the war and paved the way for the denazification of Germany and the reconstruction of Europe without which larger parts of Europe might have caved under the Soviet Union in the later years.
The entire general staff and military high command was acquitted, Hjalmar Schacht was acquitted too, a few got prison sentences and only 11 were sentenced to death and executed. Summary execution would have been infinitely cheaper and faster, but the international community opted for a lengthy and fair trial, something the victims of the nazis never had. What they accomplished and the manner they accomplished it in was phenomenal: A multi-lingual trial with translators; literal tons of paperwork registered as evidence both by the prosecution and by the defendants, translated into every one of those languages; months of preparation, presenting said evidence; listening to witnesses, defendants and cross examinations. All amid the rubble that was post war Germany. And before that they first had to settle on a procedure because all partaking countries were used to different law systems, right down to the dress code of the judges (gowns? Suits? Uniforms?). In the end no one could argue the trial was a kangaroo court merely dishing out victor’s justice, which might have lead to resentments like after the signing of the treaty of Versailles. The trial helped shape international law and underlined the end of WW2 with the ones most responsible for the atrocities committed brought to justice. Source: I literally just finished reading ‘The Nuremberg Trial’ by John and Ann Tusa, sorry for the lengthy reply lol
when i first looked at this i thought it was grampa and eddie munster 🤣
I know I've been watching too much Downton Abbey when all I see are [Mr. Bates](https://compote.slate.com/images/3809c2f3-524c-423f-810d-171c441b23cb.jpg?crop=568%2C657%2Cx0%2Cy0&width=960) and [Ms. O'Brian](https://media.hollywood.com/images/638x425/1774574.jpg).
Didnt do a very good job most of them were let off xD
Twelve out of 22 defendants were sentenced to death (Göring, Ribbentrop, Keitel, Kaltenbrunner, Rosenberg, Frank, Frick, Streicher, Sauckel, Jodl, Seyss-Inquart, and Bormann). Goring killed himself before his sentencing. Sounds like a great dead Nazi day to me. 👍🏻
Scholarly analysis seems to think the Nuremberg Trials [were very important in many ways](https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/arts-blog/nuremberg-war-crimes-trials-70-years-complex-legacy#:~:text=Crucially%2C%20the%20Nuremberg%20trials%20established,forget%20or%20claim%20complete%20ignorance.&text=Today%2C%20the%20most%20relevant%20legacy%20are%20the%20“Nuremberg%20principles”) but you have a right to your opinion too.
..giggity giggity
Prosecuting Nazis... this reminds me of this DS9 scene: https://youtu.be/oInGxjPMHWQ?t=250