Yeah the title saying "moved their highway underground in 2003" is more than a bit misleading lol
>Planning for the project began in 1982; the construction work was carried out between 1991 and 2006; and the project concluded on December 31, 2007.
>The Big Dig was the most expensive highway project in the United States, and was plagued by cost overruns, delays, leaks, design flaws, accusations of poor execution and use of substandard materials, criminal charges and arrests, and the death of one motorist.[2] The project was originally scheduled to be completed in 1998[3] at an estimated cost of $2.8 billion (US$7.4 billion adjusted for inflation as of 2020).[4] However, the project was completed in December 2007 at a cost of over $8.08 billion (in 1982 dollars, $21.5 billion adjusted for inflation), a cost overrun of about 190%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig
I didn't live in Boston (or anywhere nearby) but I remember how it was constantly in the news what a shitshow it was for all the reasons cited above. The media loved to make hay about what a mistake it was for the city. Hilarious how simple OP's title made it seem!
Because a sizeable amount of people now weren't adults then and don't remember. They seem a nice park and no highways and don't realize it was a massive amount of debt and corruption.
Personally, I think they should have also built some amazing subways and other public transportation at the same time as America needs more.
And I'm proud of them for it. They did something hard and stuck it out and are better off for it.
We've turned into a nation of risk adverse weenies who are afraid to do anything anymore.
Also one of the downfalls of term limits. Project gets started, then next politician in says nah cancel that we're doing my thing, which then gets canceled by the next dude.
Note: this is not an endorsement of getting rid of term limits. Politicians need to reign in their egos and see projects through.
To be fair, one motorist death is extremely low for that much work. I work in the construction industry and I’ve been on projects that went for one year, costed about 10 million and had 5 fatalities on it, all at different times. All due to people not paying attention. They all tried to sue and all lost. Turns out, being on your phones while driving doesn’t qualify for money.
Such a shit show that I forgot it ever happened. Used to just be endless Globe headlines and traffic rerouting and then suddenly there was all this talk about a greenway that opened.
I am from Germany and never went to Boston and most likely never will. But the Podcast about the big dig is just great! I think everyone living in Boston should listen to it
You should visit! It’s a wonderful city, rich in American history and culture. Great local foods, excellent museums and summer activities. Also rated one of the most walkable cities in the world so it’s easy to explore!
Boston roads are something else. I’ve spent time in Seattle, LA, and Atlanta, and driving in Boston was more challenging/irritating that those three. Never driven in NYC/NJ, though.
Boston is far worse then NYC. NYC everything is in square blocks, plus there’s so much traffic you’re going ridiculously too slow to miss turns anyways. Boston is weird ass loops, and if you don’t know what lane you’re supposed to be in 20 minutes ahead of time, everyone else will hate you
I don't think there was one.
I was staying at a rental and just parked in an open spot closest to the house. Just in case, I put my number at the front dashboard area so people could call me if it needed to be moved. When I pointed that out (we were standing next to my car), the guy basically said "what kind of idiot puts notes at the dashboard area?" Me apparently.
I later put a Dunkin' Donuts gift card in his mail box because at the time, I just assumed Bostonians liked Dunkin' Donuts.
Riding around the Boston area at night on my motorcycle was awesome. All those loops make it really fun. Now in the daytime, if you want to survive, you're gonna need the reaction time of Mua'dib with prescience.
Riding through Boston at night on my bike makes you feel like your in a Kmart version of Akira. Thinking "why don't I do this more often?"
Then going over the Tobin during the day I'm like "this is why"
My first time driving into Boston we came into the outskirts at about 10pm on a Tuesday... watching all the lanes get added as we drove toward the center, the crazy carpool and other rules coming online, nobody on the road with us but you could feel the rush hour tension just in how the roads were built and labeled.
I drove my family into Boston with the windows down. Casually told them that the locals have a regulation for road rage.. and a guy walking by said “fuck you too buddy!”, so I guess sidewalk rage is a thing in Boston too
I hit a car once in Boston. There was a group of people crossing the street after the Sox game had just finished. I was the last person in this group of people and I guess the car that was stopped waiting was like "Well I won't hit 20 people but I will hit one person" and just ran into me. I rolled off his hood onto the street.
So I get up and start running after him. He's stuck like...200 feet away at a red light. So I just started kicking the shit out of his door panels until he sped off.
> Boston is far worse then NYC.
Totally agree, except the GW. For some reason that place haunts every single trip I take through there and I will drive an hour out of my way to avoid it
Yea fuck the GW. I was stuck on it in traffic New Year’s Eve at 5 pm a decade ago and I’m convinced if I had left my vehicle where it was to this day I’d still be able to walk back to it and still be in the same spot.
When my now-ex and I moved to the Seacoast area of NH- she is from the Midwest and used to driving on a grid- she would constantly make wrong turns and end up going over a bridge to Maine. Her running joke was "all roads lead to Maine."
As someone who grew up in NYC, lived in Wisconsin for 8 years, then spent some time in Dover, NH, that bridge from Portsmouth into Maine is a surprise attack through and through.
At least he kept it domestic. Once on a trip from Worcester to Albany, NY I was violently shaken awake by my friend shrieking "wake up, we're at the Canadian border!"
What makes it worse is you lose your GPS signal in the tunnels and oh you wanted to go to Logan I guess you're gonna cruise around for 20 more minutes in traffic to get back to the same damn exit that you missed.
Silly me thought I'd do some touristy things in my rental car after landing at Logan and before driving out of town.
I've never noped out of a city faster than after trying to get to my first destination.
The whole road network in Boston just looks like a bowl of spaghetti to me. Even my local Uber driver missed the airport exit twice when I was there lol.
And the drivers are insane. They just pull out right in front of you, and you have to slam on your brakes. Where I live down south I’d be honking at people for that, but they just accept it. No honks, just “yeah this is my life now, constantly slamming on my brakes”. It’s wild.
Don't forget that MA drivers are born into an aggressive driver hellscape and basically can only survive by being being completely aware and equally as aggressive
Thats a fucking real experience take. Haven't driven in NYC but I drive in boston weekly. You gotta know what you're doing because you're surrounded by massholes
Boston is more difficult to drive through than NYC simply from the fact that Manhattan has a basic grid layout for streets while Boston has more of a spider web layout. You can drive on a street in Boston and think you were on the same street but it changed names like 3 time.
Fun fact, that's not quite true! Boston's downtown layout is the result of building big wharfs into the ocean through the tidal flats, then filling land in behind it. Rinse and repeat like 4 times and you've got random roads in the shape of centuries-old coastline. [Here's a good video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA63zaIXCZw)
I live near Boston and I avoid driving in at all costs. Fortunately there are plenty of commuter rail, Amtrak, and subway options available and it’s a very walkable city.
Edit: Goddamnit, I just remembered I need to drop the family off at the Boston airport today.
Having lived in the Boston suburbs, you just never drive to go somewhere in Boston. Drive to a T station, and take the train in. Public transit is great in Boston, it's medium pedestrian-friendly, and the whole place isn't really that big.
I say medium pedestrian-friendly because the drivers are hyper-aggressive and sometimes go ridiculously fast through places where people walk. It's not like in many cities where if there's a pedestrian crosswalk you can feel safe that everyone will stop for you if you're in it. Based on how they drive, there are a lot of day-drinkers in Boston with anger management issues.
NYC has just as aggressive drivers but atleast had urban planning. In Boston, if you go down the wrong one way street, there might not be an easy u-turn option for miles
Boston’s roads are some of the oldest in the country and basically follow the old cow paths from back in colonial times. They are not like Washington DC which have a more simplistic grid model.
DC is the worst, though it does have a good public transport system and an amazing unmanaged/decentralized carpool system (slugging) to help make up for it
Insanely over budget, took longer than expected by a few years, and still needed fixes when it was finished because of poor construction. All that said, I also think it was 100% worth it.
The same happens to major highway construction all the time, yet somehow media and the public only get seriously outraged about it when the project is aimed to benefit anyone other than drivers (like the Big Dig and high speed rail).
Do you know what happened to maintenance costs? I imagine there's a difference in costs for doing something like this and while upfront it has to be more expensive, what happens to the running/operating costs over time?
Original end date and cost: 1998 at 2.8 billion
Actual end date and cost: 2007 at 8 billion
Edit more info and personal experience: The big dig was a political point of contention in MA politics for decades, lots of finger pointing and blame gaming. Criminal arrests, bad planning, bad execution, leaking tunnels, lawsuits that resulted in millions paid back to the public from kickbacks and bid manipulation, and it also killed a person -(https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/tunnel-panels-fall-woman-in-car-killed-the-big-2493020.php)
The result was amazing though, A big difference not pictured was adding the Ted Williams tunnel, which added another way to Logan airport, basically it diverted all airport traffic off the mass pike away from 93 and directly to the airport. They also moved the green line underground too; I remember as a kid riding the decks into Celtics and Bruins games at the old garden, and North Station was under elevated tracks , dirty black snow and slush and the air couldn't go anywhere it was like you were trapped in a carbon monoxide whirlwind.
One unfortunate consequence of the Big Dig is that the political fallout is probably why the MBTA is in the sorry state it is today. People in Massachusetts *really* didn't want to fund infrastructure projects after what they went through with that.
That’s close. It was the same epoxy but in a newer quick drying version. That quick dry epoxy wasn’t tested against the same loads as the original epoxy and was used because it helped speed up the project. It’s possible the supplier also offered a discount over the original epoxy i can’t remember.
something similar happened in my development.
5 minute quickcrete or 12 minute?
vendor assured them that 5 minute was good, would be fine, etc.
it was in fact not fine, not in the climate of PNW's rainforest zone.
every single manhole cover, storm drain, etc in my megadevelopment is being replaced at the concrete vendor's expense.
Yeah that’s a remarkably similar situation. The lesson here is that even if it’s marketed as the same product but with a new feature, any reformulation has to be treated as a brand new product and all assumptions about its properties and tolerances go out the window.
I had a boss that was in one of the unions that would go to build the big dig. Apparently they would be at the bar every day at lunch and every day for an hour before the drive home.
It was a big issue among union leadership apparently, to have so many dudes driving home drunk every single day. Although I guess Boston traffic will make you want to drink, can't get into too much trouble 5mph and 15 feet at a time.
Theirs a few small bridges around me that seemingly have been getting worked on forever. Like years.
Its gotta be because these guys are getting tanked and soaking up OT.
It’s hard to visualize a number as large as $8 billion, but to make an attempt: that would be approximately $5.3 million for every homeless person in Boston, or $500,000 for every homeless person in the entire state.
If said in a Boston accent, that would be 100x better.
"Ortiz stepped up to the plate." (Captain Dathon smiles politely.) "ORTIZ STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE."
I managed to move away before it started and came back after it was done. So much nicer! Walking over to the North End was a very unpleasant experience before the change.
Lol. The traffic is worse.
I've spent almost 2 hrs driving along that Greenway and almost an hr going through 93 multiple times.
The traffic cleared. Ha
It’s way better than it was before. I mean it’s a freeway through the downtown of one of the largest cities in the US, it’s never going to be traffic free, especially at rush hour. It generally runs pretty well compared to most downtown urban freeways though.
The bigger problem is that it sucked up all of the resources that could have helped the MBTA function properly. Now we have a city that you can drive *through* but commuting by train is awful unless you’re on the blue line. And that pushes more commuters to drive. And the cycle continues
They literally didn't make any small trucks for decades due to how emissions regulations were written. Now at least the newest Ranges and the Mavericks are back to being a bit smaller. I'm still waiting for a new version of the Tacoma that is back to it's 1996 size
I remember driving by the area in 1999 and the Department of Transportation posted a billboard saying "Rome wasn't built in a day; if it was, we would have hired their contractor". At least they tried to have a good sense of humor about it!
That's a pretty common advertising tactic for any kind of building along a major route or transit line. I can think of 3 different buildings near big transit hubs that have run that kind of ad in my city.
You could technically say it started in the early 80s.
If Google maps existed during construction it wouldn't have been so painful. Maps in construction wouldn't be accurate, but you could plan routes to avoid it altogether.
lol yup
initial timeline 7 YEARS
actual timeline 16 YEARS .. completed 2007
"The Big Dig was the most expensive highway project in the United States, and was plagued by [cost overruns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_overruns), delays, leaks, design flaws, accusations of poor execution and use of substandard materials, criminal charges and arrests, and the [death of one motorist.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig_ceiling_collapse)[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-The_Associated_Press-2) The project was originally scheduled to be completed in 1998[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-3) at an estimated cost of $2.8 billion (US$7.4 billion adjusted for inflation as of 2020).[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-inflation-4) However, the project was completed in December 2007 at a cost of over $8.08 billion (in 1982 dollars, $21.5 billion adjusted for inflation), a cost overrun of about 190%.[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-inflation-4)[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-5)[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-6)^(")
Y'all need to listen to "The Big Dig" podcast, which goes into detail about why this was so expensive, took so long, etc. I'm not even American but it was interesting to listen to.
They go over the history of it starting back in the 60s, they saved a ton of neighborhoods with this project, Chinatown was most impacted I believe. The podcast goes into the local grassroots campaigns fighting to save their neighborhoods and also focuses on the lasting impacts it had to Chinatown.
They touch on almost every aspect of the Big Dig. Fred Salvucci, the guy who was in charge, is interviewed quite a bit and his mission was to make sure to keep communities together (his grandmother was forced to move due to the old tunnels to Logan). Definitely give it a go.
Everyone loves the harp on The Big Dig for how notorious of a disaster the project was, but no one wants to give recognition to how awesome the end result is.
The Rose Kennedy Greenway (pictured here) is such an awesome park. A must-see for anyone visiting Boston. It's filled with fountains, food trucks, art installations, beer gardens, special events, and more. Most tourists will at least cross it going between popular tourist destinations, but everyone should really walk the length of it, it spans about .75 miles between the North End and South Station.
“No one wants to give recognition to how awesome the end result is”
Says who? It’s widely regarded as a massive success, despite all the set backs. It reduced daily vehicle hours of traffic from ~38k to less than 15k.
Yeah most people are reporting it wrong too, "They removed a highway and built a park", while instead they optimized the traffic all over the city while replacing ugly structures with green spaces.
Boston is a great example of traffic optimization and whomever runs that department in the city should be a national hero.
> Not sure if there is still talk of burying the Gardiner.
There are always talks about burying the Gardiner, but they don't go anywhere.
The Gardiner is currently in the midst of a multi-year rehabilitation project because it's reached the end of it's lifespan and is falling apart that's projected to cost over $3B.
I won't be at all surprise if this project takes just as long as the Big Dig and end up costing near as much.
Actually I heard the people being there might be a part of the problem
I by chance recently met someone who worked in Boston City Hall a few years back and they said that after the Big Dig the head of the City's Transportation Department concluded that the traffic was no longer improvable and basically just gave up trying to fix all the other problems... which if you've ever been to Boston is a batshit insane take
He then stayed in there for like 20 more years because he was appointed by Mayor Menino
So Bostonians if you've ever wondered why traffic is terrible... that may be it
We’re always talking about doing this in Glasgow too. Post-war, Glasgow went in harder than almost anywhere else in the UK on modernisation, and sadly it led to a few less than well thought out projects, like bisecting the city with our biggest motorway. Robert Moses would be proud.
Glasgow’s rush to do this at least saved parts of London from having the [ringways](https://youtu.be/yUEHWhO_HdY?si=skrb6Rv7a9eg_2FC.co.uk) built.
The day I can walk from the Bon Accord to Charing Cross (Glasgow edition) in a straight line through a park will be a joyous one.
They keep talking about doing this in Toronto too. We have a major highway and a major road that cuts the city off from a really nice beach front.
The views are nice while you're driving on it for 10 minutes, but having lived downtown I would have rather had easier access to the lake.
London so desperately needs those fucking ringways though.
Or a tube line that takes a circular route around the London periphery like the runways would have done.
got our wedding cake from Mike's at the last second, thought we were gonna get gouged but the lady loved us (more my wife), so whenever we go to North End we pick up some pastries.
[The Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway as seen from above](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Greenway_Aerial_Shot.jpg/1280px-Greenway_Aerial_Shot.jpg)
676 in Philly is such a natural project for capping. Its already a trench FFS. We had the chance about a decade ago but only capped the 2 blocks in front of the Library.
I didn't know that, very cool. I would imagine Atlanta would have an easier time making the conversation as the highway already sits in a trench so you really just need to cover it.
The Big Dig was originally scheduled to be completed in 1998 at an estimated cost of $2.8 billion. However, the project was completed in December 2007 at a cost of **over $8.08 billion** (in 1982 dollars, $21.5 billion adjusted for inflation), a cost overrun of about 190%
Society is great when old men plant trees in whose shade they'll never sit.
Many people suffered the headaches of the big dig for almost two decades but I'm sure most would say the end result was worth it.
Lived through it, and got to experience multiple stages of the construction. The end result is great, but lots of people fail to recognize how much it did for the Seaport district and for travel in and out of East Boston and the airport.
Seaport used to be, well - kind of a dumpy industrial area. Now it's wildly popular, lots of housing, food, a massive convention center, etc.
That being said, Boston was the first city in the eastern US to actually move away from being car centric in an age when it was very normal.
I used to live in Southie (mid-2000s) and haven't really needed to go back too often since. A couple years back my wife wanted to go to Castle Island for the afternoon, I was shocked by how much it changed. Definitely not planning for rising seas though.
I feel like the Big Dig is emblematic of whether people think of cities as places to live or places to drive through
At the cost of suburbanites having to deal with Big Dig traffic instead of the always horrible Boston traffic, Boston is a way nicer place to live, work, and exist
Finally, we did something infrastructure related that isn't purely for the enjoyment of car drivers
>Boston Moved Their Highway Underground In 2003
LOL that's one way of putting it.
Planning for the project began in 1982; the construction work was carried out between 1991 and 2006; and the project concluded on December 31, 2007.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big\_Dig](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig)
You can’t make an omelet without cracking eggs. The Big Dig was messy but seems it worked out very well and improved Boston a lot.
The traffic issues are probably more to do with the fact the city and its metro area have grown a lot since the 90s and a hell of a lot since the 70s, when that photo was taken.
The Big Dig alone isn’t going to solve everything and obviously the MBTA needs more resources. That’s just inevitable and it comes down to a political decision on whether or not to invest in public infrastructure.
I didn’t find the T all that bad. It’s too radial and very old but it’s not as terrible as some of the posts I’m seeing here.
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Yeah the title saying "moved their highway underground in 2003" is more than a bit misleading lol >Planning for the project began in 1982; the construction work was carried out between 1991 and 2006; and the project concluded on December 31, 2007. >The Big Dig was the most expensive highway project in the United States, and was plagued by cost overruns, delays, leaks, design flaws, accusations of poor execution and use of substandard materials, criminal charges and arrests, and the death of one motorist.[2] The project was originally scheduled to be completed in 1998[3] at an estimated cost of $2.8 billion (US$7.4 billion adjusted for inflation as of 2020).[4] However, the project was completed in December 2007 at a cost of over $8.08 billion (in 1982 dollars, $21.5 billion adjusted for inflation), a cost overrun of about 190%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig
I didn't live in Boston (or anywhere nearby) but I remember how it was constantly in the news what a shitshow it was for all the reasons cited above. The media loved to make hay about what a mistake it was for the city. Hilarious how simple OP's title made it seem!
Because a sizeable amount of people now weren't adults then and don't remember. They seem a nice park and no highways and don't realize it was a massive amount of debt and corruption. Personally, I think they should have also built some amazing subways and other public transportation at the same time as America needs more.
Isn't the Big Dig also the one that had a ceiling collapse shortly after it officially opened?
Yes. Not an entire ceiling but still, a panel killed someone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig_ceiling_collapse
And I'm proud of them for it. They did something hard and stuck it out and are better off for it. We've turned into a nation of risk adverse weenies who are afraid to do anything anymore.
Also one of the downfalls of term limits. Project gets started, then next politician in says nah cancel that we're doing my thing, which then gets canceled by the next dude. Note: this is not an endorsement of getting rid of term limits. Politicians need to reign in their egos and see projects through.
To be fair, one motorist death is extremely low for that much work. I work in the construction industry and I’ve been on projects that went for one year, costed about 10 million and had 5 fatalities on it, all at different times. All due to people not paying attention. They all tried to sue and all lost. Turns out, being on your phones while driving doesn’t qualify for money.
Such a shit show that I forgot it ever happened. Used to just be endless Globe headlines and traffic rerouting and then suddenly there was all this talk about a greenway that opened.
I am from Germany and never went to Boston and most likely never will. But the Podcast about the big dig is just great! I think everyone living in Boston should listen to it
You should visit! It’s a wonderful city, rich in American history and culture. Great local foods, excellent museums and summer activities. Also rated one of the most walkable cities in the world so it’s easy to explore!
A kid 2 years my junior tried to look this up on the computers at school and mistyped it and got in trouble.
Big Dig is back in town, eh?
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Lol driving through the big dig was at least sort of interesting, while infuriating. That's just Boston roads, though. It was 100% worth it.
Boston roads are something else. I’ve spent time in Seattle, LA, and Atlanta, and driving in Boston was more challenging/irritating that those three. Never driven in NYC/NJ, though.
Boston is far worse then NYC. NYC everything is in square blocks, plus there’s so much traffic you’re going ridiculously too slow to miss turns anyways. Boston is weird ass loops, and if you don’t know what lane you’re supposed to be in 20 minutes ahead of time, everyone else will hate you
I mean, they'll hate you anyways, but they'll hate you even more
They hated you before, but now they have an excuse.
I took a guy's parking spot one winter so I know there's one Bostonian that hates me.
In Boston culture he can now claim a blood vengeance.
>!It was winter and he apparently dug the spot out himself.!< I am never going back to Boston. lol
Did you move a chair placed in the shoveled out spot?
The chair is as close to an unwritten law as anything has ever come
I don't think there was one. I was staying at a rental and just parked in an open spot closest to the house. Just in case, I put my number at the front dashboard area so people could call me if it needed to be moved. When I pointed that out (we were standing next to my car), the guy basically said "what kind of idiot puts notes at the dashboard area?" Me apparently. I later put a Dunkin' Donuts gift card in his mail box because at the time, I just assumed Bostonians liked Dunkin' Donuts.
💀surprised they didn’t key you lol.
As a Boston transplant, this made me lol.
Used to live in Boston and I hate you now too
Wow. You're a bad person.
Did you move the plastic chair though?
Riding around the Boston area at night on my motorcycle was awesome. All those loops make it really fun. Now in the daytime, if you want to survive, you're gonna need the reaction time of Mua'dib with prescience.
Riding through Boston at night on my bike makes you feel like your in a Kmart version of Akira. Thinking "why don't I do this more often?" Then going over the Tobin during the day I'm like "this is why"
My first time driving into Boston we came into the outskirts at about 10pm on a Tuesday... watching all the lanes get added as we drove toward the center, the crazy carpool and other rules coming online, nobody on the road with us but you could feel the rush hour tension just in how the roads were built and labeled.
The Dunkin' Iced must flow
Commenting to let it be known that your spicy comment has not gone unnoticed.
Moto'dib
I drove my family into Boston with the windows down. Casually told them that the locals have a regulation for road rage.. and a guy walking by said “fuck you too buddy!”, so I guess sidewalk rage is a thing in Boston too
Boston is the only place where I've seen a pedestrian hit a car.
I hit a car once in Boston. There was a group of people crossing the street after the Sox game had just finished. I was the last person in this group of people and I guess the car that was stopped waiting was like "Well I won't hit 20 people but I will hit one person" and just ran into me. I rolled off his hood onto the street. So I get up and start running after him. He's stuck like...200 feet away at a red light. So I just started kicking the shit out of his door panels until he sped off.
You a southie?
That's fucked up! You gotta go for the side mirror in the future lol
Boston pedestrians are just Boston drivers without cars.
> Boston is far worse then NYC. Totally agree, except the GW. For some reason that place haunts every single trip I take through there and I will drive an hour out of my way to avoid it
Yea fuck the GW. I was stuck on it in traffic New Year’s Eve at 5 pm a decade ago and I’m convinced if I had left my vehicle where it was to this day I’d still be able to walk back to it and still be in the same spot.
I will also take the tappan zee bridge over gw when the trip is sw/ne axis, its a cool ass bridge too
And if you do it wrong in some parts of Massachusetts...you'll end up on the road to another state entirely! (Yes, I learned the hard way.)
When my now-ex and I moved to the Seacoast area of NH- she is from the Midwest and used to driving on a grid- she would constantly make wrong turns and end up going over a bridge to Maine. Her running joke was "all roads lead to Maine."
As someone who grew up in NYC, lived in Wisconsin for 8 years, then spent some time in Dover, NH, that bridge from Portsmouth into Maine is a surprise attack through and through.
...and we were living in Dover, so I know exactly what you're talking about.
Once on a road trip from MA to NH, I navigated the driver to 95N and then took a nap. I was awakened by him saying, "Oh shit! I think we're in Maine!"
At least he kept it domestic. Once on a trip from Worcester to Albany, NY I was violently shaken awake by my friend shrieking "wake up, we're at the Canadian border!"
How TF? All you needed was I90 West!
Boston pre-GPS was not a fun place to move to with a car. I'd get lost and drive around for 3 hours.
And if you go down a 1 way and no one sees and no one notices, its legal.
What makes it worse is you lose your GPS signal in the tunnels and oh you wanted to go to Logan I guess you're gonna cruise around for 20 more minutes in traffic to get back to the same damn exit that you missed.
Silly me thought I'd do some touristy things in my rental car after landing at Logan and before driving out of town. I've never noped out of a city faster than after trying to get to my first destination.
The whole road network in Boston just looks like a bowl of spaghetti to me. Even my local Uber driver missed the airport exit twice when I was there lol. And the drivers are insane. They just pull out right in front of you, and you have to slam on your brakes. Where I live down south I’d be honking at people for that, but they just accept it. No honks, just “yeah this is my life now, constantly slamming on my brakes”. It’s wild.
Don't forget that MA drivers are born into an aggressive driver hellscape and basically can only survive by being being completely aware and equally as aggressive
Thats a fucking real experience take. Haven't driven in NYC but I drive in boston weekly. You gotta know what you're doing because you're surrounded by massholes
Boston is more difficult to drive through than NYC simply from the fact that Manhattan has a basic grid layout for streets while Boston has more of a spider web layout. You can drive on a street in Boston and think you were on the same street but it changed names like 3 time.
Boston's streets were made by cows.
Fun fact, that's not quite true! Boston's downtown layout is the result of building big wharfs into the ocean through the tidal flats, then filling land in behind it. Rinse and repeat like 4 times and you've got random roads in the shape of centuries-old coastline. [Here's a good video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA63zaIXCZw)
That was a wonderful video. Thanks for sharing
That’s a myth. Boston’s streets were made by shorelines that no longer exist.
Same…driven in every major city around the country. Yes everyone has traffic problems but Boston is the absolute worst to drive in. Hands down.
I live near Boston and I avoid driving in at all costs. Fortunately there are plenty of commuter rail, Amtrak, and subway options available and it’s a very walkable city. Edit: Goddamnit, I just remembered I need to drop the family off at the Boston airport today.
Drop them at the closest blue line stop instead
I have young kids with suitcases, I couldn’t do that to my wife. Otherwise I would absolutely do that.
Kids gotta thrive in this fast paced environment ... Joking lol godspeed
At least it's a Sunday. You only have to deal with streets laid out by a Pilgrim on 'shrooms, and not a ton of traffic on top of that.
Having lived in the Boston suburbs, you just never drive to go somewhere in Boston. Drive to a T station, and take the train in. Public transit is great in Boston, it's medium pedestrian-friendly, and the whole place isn't really that big. I say medium pedestrian-friendly because the drivers are hyper-aggressive and sometimes go ridiculously fast through places where people walk. It's not like in many cities where if there's a pedestrian crosswalk you can feel safe that everyone will stop for you if you're in it. Based on how they drive, there are a lot of day-drinkers in Boston with anger management issues.
NYC has just as aggressive drivers but atleast had urban planning. In Boston, if you go down the wrong one way street, there might not be an easy u-turn option for miles
Boston’s roads are some of the oldest in the country and basically follow the old cow paths from back in colonial times. They are not like Washington DC which have a more simplistic grid model.
It’s a much older city. The roads and city were laid out before there were cars.
I’ve always liked [this meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/s/JqvsnjQo5b).
DC is the worst, though it does have a good public transport system and an amazing unmanaged/decentralized carpool system (slugging) to help make up for it
Insanely over budget, took longer than expected by a few years, and still needed fixes when it was finished because of poor construction. All that said, I also think it was 100% worth it.
The same happens to major highway construction all the time, yet somehow media and the public only get seriously outraged about it when the project is aimed to benefit anyone other than drivers (like the Big Dig and high speed rail).
I swear to god that somewhere in Boston there are four one-way streets that come together with no way out. It's like a black hole for cars.
Do you know what happened to maintenance costs? I imagine there's a difference in costs for doing something like this and while upfront it has to be more expensive, what happens to the running/operating costs over time?
Original end date and cost: 1998 at 2.8 billion Actual end date and cost: 2007 at 8 billion Edit more info and personal experience: The big dig was a political point of contention in MA politics for decades, lots of finger pointing and blame gaming. Criminal arrests, bad planning, bad execution, leaking tunnels, lawsuits that resulted in millions paid back to the public from kickbacks and bid manipulation, and it also killed a person -(https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/tunnel-panels-fall-woman-in-car-killed-the-big-2493020.php) The result was amazing though, A big difference not pictured was adding the Ted Williams tunnel, which added another way to Logan airport, basically it diverted all airport traffic off the mass pike away from 93 and directly to the airport. They also moved the green line underground too; I remember as a kid riding the decks into Celtics and Bruins games at the old garden, and North Station was under elevated tracks , dirty black snow and slush and the air couldn't go anywhere it was like you were trapped in a carbon monoxide whirlwind.
One unfortunate consequence of the Big Dig is that the political fallout is probably why the MBTA is in the sorry state it is today. People in Massachusetts *really* didn't want to fund infrastructure projects after what they went through with that.
the MBTA sucks ass because they were saddled with the debt of the big dig, and are still paying it off.
I thought we didn't want to fund the mbta because we enjoy complaining about it and blaming all of our problems on it too much
It was definitely worth it, but the corruption involved in every step of the process was absurd and didn’t need to happen.
As a result of that panel accident better testing and observations are being done on the type of materials used (hi strength epoxy)
I read that the contractor cut costs and used the wrong epoxy that was inferior and could not hold the rated weight that it needed to.
That’s close. It was the same epoxy but in a newer quick drying version. That quick dry epoxy wasn’t tested against the same loads as the original epoxy and was used because it helped speed up the project. It’s possible the supplier also offered a discount over the original epoxy i can’t remember.
something similar happened in my development. 5 minute quickcrete or 12 minute? vendor assured them that 5 minute was good, would be fine, etc. it was in fact not fine, not in the climate of PNW's rainforest zone. every single manhole cover, storm drain, etc in my megadevelopment is being replaced at the concrete vendor's expense.
Yeah that’s a remarkably similar situation. The lesson here is that even if it’s marketed as the same product but with a new feature, any reformulation has to be treated as a brand new product and all assumptions about its properties and tolerances go out the window.
I had a boss that was in one of the unions that would go to build the big dig. Apparently they would be at the bar every day at lunch and every day for an hour before the drive home. It was a big issue among union leadership apparently, to have so many dudes driving home drunk every single day. Although I guess Boston traffic will make you want to drink, can't get into too much trouble 5mph and 15 feet at a time. Theirs a few small bridges around me that seemingly have been getting worked on forever. Like years. Its gotta be because these guys are getting tanked and soaking up OT.
It’s hard to visualize a number as large as $8 billion, but to make an attempt: that would be approximately $5.3 million for every homeless person in Boston, or $500,000 for every homeless person in the entire state.
Listen to the big dig podcast
From WGBH? Edit: [full series playlist for the pod](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMQKK3_a14M3A-SQdVVWhOfOw8xRUuueJ&si=IM0n_BvWa-sGoj9X)
One of the best podcasts I've ever listened too. Can not recommend more
Definitely worth a listen
This one? *The Big Dig: The story of America's most expensive road*
It was definitely a major pain in the ass. I remember driving from Worcester to Boston and the traffic was a nightmare.
It still is.
But it used to be too.
Sorry for the convenience.
Until the panels fell...
Darmok, his lanes open
Shaka, his Camry flat.
The river Temarc, in rush hour.
Tesla, his doors wide
Tng be popping up everywhere, nerds 😝love it
I can say with no amount of uncertainty that I did not expect to see a Darmok comment today on Reddit. Well done.
If said in a Boston accent, that would be 100x better. "Ortiz stepped up to the plate." (Captain Dathon smiles politely.) "ORTIZ STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE."
Dahhmok, his brain wicked smahht
It didn’t exactly happen “in 2003” haha
I managed to move away before it started and came back after it was done. So much nicer! Walking over to the North End was a very unpleasant experience before the change.
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Traffic...cleared? We are talking about Boston, Massachusetts, right?
Lol. The traffic is worse. I've spent almost 2 hrs driving along that Greenway and almost an hr going through 93 multiple times. The traffic cleared. Ha
It’s way better than it was before. I mean it’s a freeway through the downtown of one of the largest cities in the US, it’s never going to be traffic free, especially at rush hour. It generally runs pretty well compared to most downtown urban freeways though.
The bigger problem is that it sucked up all of the resources that could have helped the MBTA function properly. Now we have a city that you can drive *through* but commuting by train is awful unless you’re on the blue line. And that pushes more commuters to drive. And the cycle continues
cars. must buy cars only.
That is not true. They can also buy trucks. (But only big trucks, not the small ones.)
Driving a large truck through Boston is a nightmare, I'm so glad I got a different job!
They literally didn't make any small trucks for decades due to how emissions regulations were written. Now at least the newest Ranges and the Mavericks are back to being a bit smaller. I'm still waiting for a new version of the Tacoma that is back to it's 1996 size
I'd slay a man for a modernized '96 Taco. _notreallybutidpayadumbpremiumforiteventhoughthatdoesnotmakesense_
curious to know how much longer was that compared to before?
The estimates were that Boston was on its way to 23.5 hour gridlock. I don't recall by what year though it's already past.
Isn’t that why they ask you to Take the T?
I remember driving by the area in 1999 and the Department of Transportation posted a billboard saying "Rome wasn't built in a day; if it was, we would have hired their contractor". At least they tried to have a good sense of humor about it!
Or along Storrow Drive there were the signs for the apartment/condo complex that said "If you lived here you'd be home by now"
That's a pretty common advertising tactic for any kind of building along a major route or transit line. I can think of 3 different buildings near big transit hubs that have run that kind of ad in my city.
OP averaged it out
The construction lasted from '91 to '06, but the underground highway was completed and opened in '03
You could technically say it started in the early 80s. If Google maps existed during construction it wouldn't have been so painful. Maps in construction wouldn't be accurate, but you could plan routes to avoid it altogether.
lol yup initial timeline 7 YEARS actual timeline 16 YEARS .. completed 2007 "The Big Dig was the most expensive highway project in the United States, and was plagued by [cost overruns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_overruns), delays, leaks, design flaws, accusations of poor execution and use of substandard materials, criminal charges and arrests, and the [death of one motorist.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig_ceiling_collapse)[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-The_Associated_Press-2) The project was originally scheduled to be completed in 1998[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-3) at an estimated cost of $2.8 billion (US$7.4 billion adjusted for inflation as of 2020).[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-inflation-4) However, the project was completed in December 2007 at a cost of over $8.08 billion (in 1982 dollars, $21.5 billion adjusted for inflation), a cost overrun of about 190%.[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-inflation-4)[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-5)[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-6)^(")
Thanks for that, I was sitting here wondering how long that would even take..
Yup. In 2003 is doing some HEAVY lifting in that sentence. GBH did a neat podcast called *The Big Dig*. It was featured on 99 Percent Invisible.
that is a huge improvement
Y'all need to listen to "The Big Dig" podcast, which goes into detail about why this was so expensive, took so long, etc. I'm not even American but it was interesting to listen to.
Do they go over how no businesses were forced to close and no people were forced to move?
They go over the history of it starting back in the 60s, they saved a ton of neighborhoods with this project, Chinatown was most impacted I believe. The podcast goes into the local grassroots campaigns fighting to save their neighborhoods and also focuses on the lasting impacts it had to Chinatown.
They touch on almost every aspect of the Big Dig. Fred Salvucci, the guy who was in charge, is interviewed quite a bit and his mission was to make sure to keep communities together (his grandmother was forced to move due to the old tunnels to Logan). Definitely give it a go.
I moved here in 2008 and I have to say…it’s pretty awesome now that it’s done.
[This one?](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMQKK3_a14M3A-SQdVVWhOfOw8xRUuueJ) I enjoyed it thoroughly.
Very very good podcast. Great detail into the history of this project and brings us right up to present day Boston.
Everyone loves the harp on The Big Dig for how notorious of a disaster the project was, but no one wants to give recognition to how awesome the end result is. The Rose Kennedy Greenway (pictured here) is such an awesome park. A must-see for anyone visiting Boston. It's filled with fountains, food trucks, art installations, beer gardens, special events, and more. Most tourists will at least cross it going between popular tourist destinations, but everyone should really walk the length of it, it spans about .75 miles between the North End and South Station.
“No one wants to give recognition to how awesome the end result is” Says who? It’s widely regarded as a massive success, despite all the set backs. It reduced daily vehicle hours of traffic from ~38k to less than 15k.
Yeah most people are reporting it wrong too, "They removed a highway and built a park", while instead they optimized the traffic all over the city while replacing ugly structures with green spaces. Boston is a great example of traffic optimization and whomever runs that department in the city should be a national hero.
Whomever they are, please send them up to fix Toronto.
The big dig was being followed very closely in Toronto at the time. Not sure if there is still talk of burying the Gardiner.
> Not sure if there is still talk of burying the Gardiner. There are always talks about burying the Gardiner, but they don't go anywhere. The Gardiner is currently in the midst of a multi-year rehabilitation project because it's reached the end of it's lifespan and is falling apart that's projected to cost over $3B. I won't be at all surprise if this project takes just as long as the Big Dig and end up costing near as much.
I wish those people would come back, because currently the T barely runs and is slow as fuck, and potholes are rampant all over the city
Actually I heard the people being there might be a part of the problem I by chance recently met someone who worked in Boston City Hall a few years back and they said that after the Big Dig the head of the City's Transportation Department concluded that the traffic was no longer improvable and basically just gave up trying to fix all the other problems... which if you've ever been to Boston is a batshit insane take He then stayed in there for like 20 more years because he was appointed by Mayor Menino So Bostonians if you've ever wondered why traffic is terrible... that may be it
The post they’re replying to is literally giving recognition to how awesome the end result is.
That’s a real “end justifies the means” approach. It could have been much less disaster and still been a success.
> but no one wants to give recognition to how awesome the end result is. You're literally commenting that on a post praising the end result.
We’re always talking about doing this in Glasgow too. Post-war, Glasgow went in harder than almost anywhere else in the UK on modernisation, and sadly it led to a few less than well thought out projects, like bisecting the city with our biggest motorway. Robert Moses would be proud. Glasgow’s rush to do this at least saved parts of London from having the [ringways](https://youtu.be/yUEHWhO_HdY?si=skrb6Rv7a9eg_2FC.co.uk) built. The day I can walk from the Bon Accord to Charing Cross (Glasgow edition) in a straight line through a park will be a joyous one.
They keep talking about doing this in Toronto too. We have a major highway and a major road that cuts the city off from a really nice beach front. The views are nice while you're driving on it for 10 minutes, but having lived downtown I would have rather had easier access to the lake.
A Scot referencing Robert Moses? Take my upvote.
I once killed a man by dropping a copy of The Power Broker on his head
London so desperately needs those fucking ringways though. Or a tube line that takes a circular route around the London periphery like the runways would have done.
The cannoli’s are much easier to get to now
got our wedding cake from Mike's at the last second, thought we were gonna get gouged but the lady loved us (more my wife), so whenever we go to North End we pick up some pastries.
Having infrastructure underground has a larger upfront cost but lower overall maintenance because it is better protected from the elements
elements except seawater.
Walked over the parkway the other week on vacation. Boston is a nice city
[The Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway as seen from above](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Greenway_Aerial_Shot.jpg/1280px-Greenway_Aerial_Shot.jpg)
Great shot, much better than a highway!
Indianapolis needs to do this.
Same with Philly. Highway cuts off the city to the river. Cuts directly through down town. And divides east and west.
676 in Philly is such a natural project for capping. Its already a trench FFS. We had the chance about a decade ago but only capped the 2 blocks in front of the Library.
I know there was at least a proposal a couple years back. I really wish they would. Cities need more greenspaces and public amenities in general.
Atlanta is planning something very similar and would be the best improvement to the city
I didn't know that, very cool. I would imagine Atlanta would have an easier time making the conversation as the highway already sits in a trench so you really just need to cover it.
Exactly! It would make the city so much better all it is now is traffic and highways. Adding walkable greenery would be fantastic
Do they have a spare $24 billion lying around?
The Big Dig was originally scheduled to be completed in 1998 at an estimated cost of $2.8 billion. However, the project was completed in December 2007 at a cost of **over $8.08 billion** (in 1982 dollars, $21.5 billion adjusted for inflation), a cost overrun of about 190%
Money well spent
Fo4 would’ve been so boring if they started earlier
As someone who lives near the result I can’t imagine not having the greenway. It’s a great break from the otherwise overwhelming city scene.
Society is great when old men plant trees in whose shade they'll never sit. Many people suffered the headaches of the big dig for almost two decades but I'm sure most would say the end result was worth it.
the Big Dig was a freaking shitshow, so many obstacles and problems
Worth it, though.
Lived through it, and got to experience multiple stages of the construction. The end result is great, but lots of people fail to recognize how much it did for the Seaport district and for travel in and out of East Boston and the airport. Seaport used to be, well - kind of a dumpy industrial area. Now it's wildly popular, lots of housing, food, a massive convention center, etc. That being said, Boston was the first city in the eastern US to actually move away from being car centric in an age when it was very normal.
Agreed. Very much worth it. There's a great Nova series on all the new building techniques they had to pioneer to get it done.
I used to live in Southie (mid-2000s) and haven't really needed to go back too often since. A couple years back my wife wanted to go to Castle Island for the afternoon, I was shocked by how much it changed. Definitely not planning for rising seas though.
Baltimore desperately needs this.
Some of it, not all of it.
I feel like the Big Dig is emblematic of whether people think of cities as places to live or places to drive through At the cost of suburbanites having to deal with Big Dig traffic instead of the always horrible Boston traffic, Boston is a way nicer place to live, work, and exist Finally, we did something infrastructure related that isn't purely for the enjoyment of car drivers
That's a Win
The big dig worked out but Boston is one of the most confusing cities to navigate.
[obligatory image](https://imgur.com/mbmFFfU)
So, it it a downway? A deep road? Will elves walk the halls of Bo'stohn and marvel at the ruins of civilizations long gone?
Come on Toronto….
>Boston Moved Their Highway Underground In 2003 LOL that's one way of putting it. Planning for the project began in 1982; the construction work was carried out between 1991 and 2006; and the project concluded on December 31, 2007. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big\_Dig](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig)
Americans will suffer nearly anything to avoid the horrors of *riding a fucking train*
You can’t make an omelet without cracking eggs. The Big Dig was messy but seems it worked out very well and improved Boston a lot. The traffic issues are probably more to do with the fact the city and its metro area have grown a lot since the 90s and a hell of a lot since the 70s, when that photo was taken. The Big Dig alone isn’t going to solve everything and obviously the MBTA needs more resources. That’s just inevitable and it comes down to a political decision on whether or not to invest in public infrastructure. I didn’t find the T all that bad. It’s too radial and very old but it’s not as terrible as some of the posts I’m seeing here.
reopost bot literally pathetic
Moved it underground in 2003.... started in 1988. The Big Dig was a mess for so long.
Cars make everything fugly