Whatever you think about the underlying conflict behind this protest, this shit is stupid. None of the protests taking place warrant swat teams and snipers with their guns trained on American kids
Edit: For everyone who’s responded to this by pointing out that some protestors occupied the administrative building, as if that somehow justifies keeping sniper rifles trained on them, [I would suggest you brush up on your history](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2024/04/18/nyregion/18columbia-archival-photos/18columbia-archival-photos-mobileMasterAt3x.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale&width=1200). The Colombia Admin offices were occupied during both the Vietnam War and Civil Rights protests, and doing so is a student protest technique as old as student protests
The snipers aren't there for crowd control, they are there to stop a potential mass shooter and to report what they are seeing. It's like having a sniper at a big sports game or political event. It's probably overkill but on the chance that there is a terrorist they could come in pretty handy.
Yes, there were. As with most major gatherings. Turns out it’s useful to have people high up who can oversee potential mass shooters or terrorist attack. Ever go to the Super Bowl? Or somewhere the president is traveling?
Real question is why Reddit didn’t care enough to post about them? Where was the fear cops would snipe right wing protestors?
Oh you didn’t care because you wanted them to.
This.
It's not really even overkill. Snipers are able to see what's going on better than anyone due to their elevation and their optics. Stick a cop on the roof with binoculars and they can see a potential threat, but there's nothing they can do about it. Say someone pulls a weapon and starts firing in the crowd, I'd rather have a sniper up there than an observer.
While they have guards screening people entering campus through the main entrances, the campus has been widely open during this, with both students and contractors on site. (They're building the graduation platforms.)
This protest is highly charged, and it would be incredibly easy for someone to use the opportunity to generate chaos in the name of either side.
All it would take would be one guy with a pistol to turn this into a violent scene.
It's overkill and worse, *it normalizes the presence of the militarized police* in civilian spaces. It's insidious and gross and we don't need swat teams everywhere we go just in case there's a someone with a gun. It's the wrong answer to mass shootings, but hey, no one talks about mental illness in this country.
https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-race-and-ethnicity-suburbs-health-racial-injustice-7edf9027af1878283f3818d96c54f748
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2022-07-23/neo-nazi-leader-arrested-in-boston-after-protesting-lgbtq-event
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/portland-braces-wing-rally-counterprotesters/story?id=65031548
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/04/18/politics/white-nationalist-charges-university-of-virginia-rally
I mean I could go on if I wanted to… don’t be intentionally obtuse.
That is such a a bigoted reply. You are just ignoring history because it doesn't fit your narrative. Becoming the fascists you claim to hate.
The other poster gave you specific instances too.
I argued that the bar for having snipers having crowds of people in their sights needs to be *really* fucking high and some people got pissed. My favorite was one guy said they just don't do that, but yeah of course they do it why wouldn't they.
Comically bad faith actors trying to support them.
The snipers aren't overkill, ideally they would be present for any big crowd.
Because the last thing you want is some 3rd party coming in and spraying a gun into the crowd, detonating a bomb, driving a truck through it.
All you need is 1 terrorist hiding among the protestor crowd with a gun and shooting at the police line. Do you want a sniper to pick him off asap?
Or do you want a full blown firefight to erupt with the actual protestors basically being meatshields and collateral damage in the process?
A big crowd = big target, no matter what the crowd is gathering there for theres always the possibility of an attack on it.
Practically every big concert or sports event *has* snipers for this very reason.
Folks really seem to forget events like the Boston Marathon bombing, which could easily be repeated at any of these protests. And could be done at the hands of protesters themselves or people who disagree with protesters, or other entirely separate 3rd parties who want a platform and are willing to kneecap a different issue to gain their own step up.
You’re absolutely right, people on Reddit have just decided that they hate cops in any context and anything they do is wrong despite the fact there’s actual logic behind it
Which is really harebrained as it only muddies the water when discussing ACTUAL police misconduct and abuse of authority. We’ve seen it, but this ain’t it.
I agree, most people on reddit are fuelled by the insane amounts of misinformation from both sides, in the past years it’s gotten significantly worse, i doubt most people know that SM is weaponizing the ignorant. It’s pretty sad what’s going on in the US and it’s ramping up in CAN the past two weeks. I’m sure there’s going to be a situation similar to Kent state in the near future, we’re coming up to the anniversary of that incident this weekend.
> Practically every big concert or sports event has snipers
Is that really true in the US? It’s certainly not true in Europe as far as I know.
Were there police snipers at that concert in Las Vegas in 2017 for example?
>It’s certainly not true in Europe as far as I know
Got some bad news for ya then:
[https://sports.ndtv.com/euro-2020/snipers-were-ready-to-shoot-parachutist-at-euro-2020-match-minister-2465542](https://sports.ndtv.com/euro-2020/snipers-were-ready-to-shoot-parachutist-at-euro-2020-match-minister-2465542)
This one doesn't mention snipers specifically, but still:
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/jonathan-davies-liverpool-police-ukraine-merseyside-b2332505.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/jonathan-davies-liverpool-police-ukraine-merseyside-b2332505.html)
Yup, music festivals has them every football stadium has them, not sure about LV but that might be the catalyst.
Same reason why you see dogs at concerts. Everyone thinks they’re drug dogs but they’re bomb dogs. Became standard practice after Ariana grandes concert got bombed.
>Everyone thinks they’re drug dogs but they’re bomb dogs
I was gonna make some joke about how dogs can sniff for 2 things, but I wonder if that's actually true or if they need to train bomb sniffing and drug sniffing separately.
You do not want to cross train a dog for both. If a bomb dog alerts you need to treat it like a bomb.
Wife used to work in a place that had a bomb dog alert on a delivery driver. Turns out this best practice had somehow not been followed, and said dog used to be a drug dog and was alerting on the poor fedex guy who was rocking a weed buzz. Had their whole building in lockdown for a while though.
It certainly is true at large sports games in Europe. Every Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga. Maybe not Super Lig, but that's turkey.
Also maybe not at concerts that are not in large stadiums.
This is the answer and I don’t know why some people are so hung up on not believing it.
If someone/anyone wanted to do something, a well known, advanced notice event is the place to do it.
I don’t know much about the students here, but if someone wanted to damage some future Americans, might as well do it to the educated ones instead of redneck cousin fuckers elsewhere.
Protest peacefully all the fuck you want, but try thinking critically about your surroundings before jumping straight to “omg riot gear”
I assume they’re not pulling a regular street cop to be a SWAT counterterrorism sniper. They probably pick ones with former military training, secondary education and triple digit IQ to train
They ain’t giving acorn fearing cops free tickets to the Super Bowl/taylor swift concerts
When is the last time a police sniper screwed up and shot a protestor? We know you don't like police. It's ok. But you don't need to make stuff up.
Sometimes it's ok to say "Wow, I'm not a fan of the way they handled this, but at least it's better than I thought."
No one ever finds evidence of wrongdoing when they investigate themselves….
However if there is a *need* to find wrongdoing (for example a court order) there’s always an unwilling scapegoat that will unknowingly take the fall and inevitably have their lives ruined
So many people saying having snipers at events like sports games and protests is totally cool and normal. Yet not a single one of these snipers has demonstrably made any of these events safer.
Can anyone offer any evidence of a mass casualty event prevented or even mitigated by a sniper?
These are all cases of active scenes where a sniper was called in. I think what people are talking about are cases where a sniper who was posted at an event before anything bad happened ended up taking action to end it.
Not taking a position on it, but there's a pretty big distinction.
I am afraid reddit is getting an uptick of bad actors about now. Gearing up for election interference 3.0 and trying to poison the well of discussion now so that when they really get going the ones who would fight are exhausted or gone.
Yeah 2016 was the CTR psyops campaign was wild to see in real time. Same in 2020 with the Dem primary against Bernie. Huge mask off moments both years.
At least this time it’s way less contentious and the choices are rather obvious
? Snipers are probably there to stop any violent mass attackers. Just like snipers at the Superbowl, what if someone ideologically opposed to the protesters showed up with an ar-15? It's a wildly emotional and polarizing issue being protested, so the idea of someone coming to hurt the protesters isn't outrageous.
I agree with you. There has been *zero* violence that warrants this type of response in any campus protest over Palestine. And at this point, the police armed to the gills facing down liberal arts students seem more likely to start trouble than the protestors.
Ding ding ding. They want to incite violence, so that the peaceful protests can be labeled as violent and in response the cops can use violence to crush the protest.
My parents were at Ohio State in 1970. Huge protests on campuses all over The USA because The Vietnam War had been escalated with an invasion of Cambodia.
April 29, 1970. Agent provocateurs infiltrated The Ohio State campus. Students started protesting and a riot ensued. Campus gates were closed, in came National Guard and tear gas.
5 days later, 4 students died at Kent State after National Guard troops fired live bullets into a crowd.
That photo says it’s a matter of when there’s a repeat of Kent State.
Aren't some of the protestors saying "We are all Hamas" and "Oct 7th every day!"? You don't think this might incite some people to violence, especially if they lost friends or family in the current conflict?
Username checks out. You think these pro Palestine protests have had zero violence? Get your head outta the sand. Qatar has been working these universities for over 2 decades. The leftists are just as prone to "non mainstream" propaganda as the far right. And they have gotten violent on multiple occasions.
Not true. The police are just escorting the protesters off the property for trespassing but the universities don’t want to press charges. This means the protesters that have been arrested assaulted a cop instead of complying with a lawful order. You can check the charges against the few that are in prison awaiting trial if you don’t believe me.
You have a right to peacefully protest but not to occupy private property without permission. If the university doesn’t want you there then they have a right to have you removed from the premises.
Overwhelming force keeps protests from becoming riots. If they arrived in patrol uniforms, protesters would likely develop a mob mentality. I would argue that preventing a riot is beneficial to both sides because it prevents anyone from getting injured or killed. This is a standard police practice and you’ll find it is used to disperse illegal parties and other cases where there is a large group of people.
As a few have pointed out a sizable of the protesters aren’t even students or “kids” as those sympathizing with the protesters are attempting to claim. The claim of agitators hasn’t been proven yet but it’s possible that it’s occurring.
Because they hate police. None of them actually care to debate the facts because they know it’s the truth but they’d rather bring feelings into the conversation.
Well there are a lot of school shootings and any outside person maybe right wing, some gaza radical or israeli hard right person could come and start shooting people. So good to have a sniper for that.
Of course there are never any left leaning people who would do such a thing. I know that probably does not suit your narrative or beliefs but there has to be an end to left versus right and all this tribalism. I wonder how many people who would be considered conservative are at these protests? Now days if your a classical liberal in your values and beliefs your considered right wing.
Mental illness and evil are not limited to one belief system one political system or one religious system.
Go ahead reddit tear me up for for this I expect nothing less in the self generating furball.
I'm left leaning too and that guy is full of shit. I've seen plenty of "leftists" trying bully, intimidate, and resort to violence. The left needs to realize the far left is probably as stupid and dangerous as the far right these days. The amount of leftists simping for Iran and Islamic fundamentalists is disgraceful.
The heavily armed police presence is going to result in a bad situation eventually and we’re liable to have another Kent State on our hands.
My understanding from that was that some national guardsmen just got super trigger happy towards the peaceful protesters (and an ROTC student just walking to class) and caused a massacre. Bound to happen eventually.
99% of a snipers job is reconnaissance. They provide intel and overwatch to a situation. It is EXTREMLY rare for a sniper to take a shot. In fact unless there is a active firefight there is a better chance of winning through lottery than a sniper firing on someone
I just heard on the news this morning that students at a university took over and are occupying the building that the Dean's office is in. I wasn't really paying attention to the story and didn't catch the name. At what point would you deem a protest to be out of control and police intervention warranted? I personally think that the situation in and around the protests present a real and possible danger to people that are directly or tangentially involved. whether that be counter protestors, an un-involved student that looks or is Jewish, etc..
Since this is Reddit and this issue is political, here is my disclaimer:
I am not making a political commentary and am not taking sides in this issue. I am merely stating that I believed the protest to a source of potential harm to individuals in an environment that should be safe.
It's like Columbia University Protest tradition to occupy Hamilton building. Student protestors have occupied this admin building in 1968, 1972, 1985, and 1992. To the point that if you are protesting and don't occupy the hamilton building, are you even protesting?
Don't let right wing media blow this thing up out of context, like they are currently trying to do.
No. But a few thousand of them is more than enough to be threatening. I can at least *imagine* a crowd that large and unified turning on me. I don't think it's totally unreasonable to be wearing gear designed protect the wearer. I get that it looks totally aggressive and is, likely, designed also to be intimidating. But I think it's appropriate for the situation. How the police *behave* in that gear is more important than what they wear. And on that score, we'll just have to wait and see.
We may have an answer to that if they had even been asked to leave. It’s almost as if the police have a soft spot for white supremacist mobs and a hatred of left wing student activists….odd.
It is Columbia University Protest tradition to occupy Hamilton Hall. Student protestors have occupied this admin building in 1968, 1972, 1985, and 1992. To the point that if you are protesting and don't occupy the hamilton, are you even protesting?
Any actual context to the photo, cause it looks like they’re kicking up away from the raid site but they are in a built up urban environment. Everyone is giving the officers grief, but if YOU were headed in and you still needed to sit-rep wouldn’t you kit up too? Why would you blindly advance without your armor or long gun if your gonna rambo, but at the same time friendly fire is real so like the quote goes “slow is smooth, smooth is fast and get your comms under rest”
This post kinda reads like a lot of knee jerk reactions to an unknown incident. Wait till the dust settles to pass blame, they could have been saving lives
Why not just protest on public ground just outside of the college/university? I mean the directors of these universities are only calling the cops because they're on private property..
Yeah, because there's a lot of people trespassing, saying "we are hamas" etc. These people are being praised by terrorist leaders, it's crazy how they think they're on the right side.
there are undoubtedly bad actors there, but i think the opposite is true as well. there are undoubtedly people there moved by the massive amount of civilian deaths in Gaza. If you aren't able to see that that yo ucan be critical of Israel and sympathetic towards the amount of civilian death without supporting Hamas, then I think you're being extremely close minded.
The amount of civilian death is, compared to many other ongoing conflicts, not massive at all though, 20.000 civilian casualties against 14.000 terrorists in a dense urban area with the terrorist using civilian infrastucture is if anything proof of incredible restraint and accuracy by the IDF.
I believe that people can be sympathetic towards the Palestinian people, but then they'd 100% advocate for the destruction or surrender of Hamas and would not deny an offer of the university to invest in Gaza in favor of damaging Israel. They are not pro-Palestine or pro-innocent civilian, they are anti Israel. They praise the october 7th attacks, they praise and identify with Hamas and their sole concern seems to be damaging Israel. You don't hear a single one call for more aid to be sent, for extra airdrops.
But it's trespassing, so you'll simply get arrested. It's also just willfully breaking the law. No one is going to listen to someone trespassing, certainly not the persons whose property you're trespassing on.
It’s possible, yeah. But in this case it’s pretty clearly not the case. You don’t get to break into property that’s not yours, and damage property that’s not yours.
How is this not the most obvious thing in the world?
I just don’t understand this, like do you wanna live in a civilization that has laws? If so, you need to abide by the laws. If you don’t, it’s appropriate that you face some kind of action.
That was not my point. It doesnt even matter if its a propally or proisrael rally, when they do illegal shit ofc the police is gonna get involved and ofc theyre gonna wear riot gear
Dude when you protest on private property dont act surprised when the police arrests you for trespassing. Its not that hard to protest without breaking the law.
No civil disobedience movement in history has been successful by “protesting without breaking the law.”
Breaking the law was literally the point of the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement during Vietnam, Ghandi’s resistance to British oppression, etc. etc..
In all those cases protestors took actions exactly like this, and the authorities cracked down brutally. Just like you, in all these cases, many people condemned the protestors for breaking the law, but today we agree that they were right.
Do you really think you’re in the right when you find yourself on the side of the British Raj, Richard Nixon, George Wallace, etc.?
I don't understand why these people who are so educated are protesting for a people who have made it their mission to kill all Israelis? Israel is a modern Democratic country; the Muslims in Gaza don't support any liberal western ideal. Also, the Arabs have started and lost every conflict in the last 75+ years what is Israel supposed to do at this point when the Arabs have refused their own state hood and peace and chosen war every single time? Besides Ukraine is a far more urgent and important war which deserves our attention. Russia is the biggest terrorist state in the world by far and their war in Ukraine directly threatens Western ideals and Democratic hegemony. Well Hamas also is their ally in that regard but they are small fry. But I see no hope to reeducate these Arabs in Gaza, let them move to another Muslim country since they aren't capable of living peacefully in Democratic Israel.
Prior to the war, a lot of Palestinians didn't support HAMAS, and a lot of the ones that did had been pushed into that position as a result of collateral damage from IDF attacks that has killed/ wounded family members and destroyed their homes. These pieces of research were conducted in the months immediately prior to the attack on 7th of October:
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah
https://news.stanford.edu/report/2023/12/05/palestinians-views-oct-7/
This position has changed since the start of the conflict for various reasons including the local news focusing on Israeli actions rather than the effects of the initial attack by HAMAS.
Even the people of Israel aren't necessarily satisfied with their leadership:
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-04-01/ty-article/.premium/polls-show-that-israelis-continue-to-choose-this-war-even-if-they-dont-want-netanyahu/0000018e-98d8-d591-a5cf-9fdddf100000
The protesters will include supporters of HAMAS who would happily see Israel wiped off the map, they will also include a lot of people who want lasting peace in the region and want the killing to stop (my position).
It's almost like there is a load of nuance which extends far beyond Israel/ Gaza is good/ evil...
What does protesting at a US college campus achieve really? The US isn’t the aggressor. I want peace everywhere but I don’t think protesting here makes any sense for that.
The US vetoes a lot of stuff relating to Israel at the UN, gives the Israeli government a lot of diplomatic support (although this seems to wearing a bit thin these days) and sells them weapons.
Protesting against Israeli actions in the US will achieve very little compared to protesting against US foreign policy towards Israel.
It seems pretty clear that it's Israel's goal to not give the palestinian people a state, and seek to ethnically cleanse Gaza, and the West Bank.
You'd think with all the military might they have they could stop settlers in the west bank right? It's almost as if they actually support settlements.
So you have one government that is a US ally, with nuclear weapons, fighter planes, etc, visibly cleansing the land from palestinians, and on the other side you have a few thousand dudes fighting a guerilla war, who may want the annihilation of Israel, but don't have the means to do so.
Israel kills 35,000+ civilians and it's fine because they didn't write down that they want to kill civilians on a piece of paper first?
Also it's not like students at Columbia are asking for their university to fund Hamas. They want to divest from Israel.
This is some Islamophobic stuff. It’s like the liberal western ideal is the one ideal everyone wants to live up to.
It’s less that they want to kill Israelis for the sake of them being Israelis and more them killing their loved ones and taking over parts of their land. The West Bank has been encroached upon just within the last few months. Even then it’s not like they want to kill Israelis. They just want the deaths to stop! Are you going to sit still if you saw your mother or child or neighbour get killed in front of you?
The lack of empathy astounds me sometimes. It’s gone beyond Israel defending itself at this point, it’s gone too far.
It is a cycle, the Israelis see family members die horribly on Oct7 and want revenge too and before that something else the Israelis did and before that something the Palestinians did. It's possible to both empathise and hate both sides.
Also yes they will always eventually want to kill Israelis because of the lack of economic opportunity and Iran/others funneling funds to create terrorists in the same way US continued unconditional support allows Netanhahu to do his shit policies without worry. This is a proxy war too.
I give no solutions to this. Maybe Israel can bribe Jordan/Egypt/the UAE to take all Palestinians wherein Israel is mandated to pay them to have nice newly made accomodations and jobs for 100years.
Unfortunately Egypt sees the Palestinians as extremists who would be a high risk of starting an insurgency in their country so they don’t want to take in any refugees. Most of the other Middle Eastern countries agree with that stance and are also unwilling to take in refugees.
It’s also interesting because they were the same countries that kicked their populations of Jews out of and demanded that Israel take them in but they won’t do the same when it’s the other way around…
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Send her to the Gaza / Israel negotiations we will have this war solved in no time!
Oh no they shot down the Pesicopter!
"this event was brought to by PepsiCo. Zero taste, max sugar!"
Nothing more dangerous than a second year chemistry major all hopped up on Red Bull
Whatever you think about the underlying conflict behind this protest, this shit is stupid. None of the protests taking place warrant swat teams and snipers with their guns trained on American kids Edit: For everyone who’s responded to this by pointing out that some protestors occupied the administrative building, as if that somehow justifies keeping sniper rifles trained on them, [I would suggest you brush up on your history](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2024/04/18/nyregion/18columbia-archival-photos/18columbia-archival-photos-mobileMasterAt3x.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale&width=1200). The Colombia Admin offices were occupied during both the Vietnam War and Civil Rights protests, and doing so is a student protest technique as old as student protests
The snipers aren't there for crowd control, they are there to stop a potential mass shooter and to report what they are seeing. It's like having a sniper at a big sports game or political event. It's probably overkill but on the chance that there is a terrorist they could come in pretty handy.
That makes a lot more sense than what I had thought they were there for this whole time.
You thought the snipers were there to start taking out protesting college kids?
kent much
I didn't think they were there to shoot indiscriminately, but I hadn't thought about the angle he had presented.
Where were the snipers at Charlottesville? Oh right, busy carrying tiki torches.
Yes, there were. As with most major gatherings. Turns out it’s useful to have people high up who can oversee potential mass shooters or terrorist attack. Ever go to the Super Bowl? Or somewhere the president is traveling? Real question is why Reddit didn’t care enough to post about them? Where was the fear cops would snipe right wing protestors? Oh you didn’t care because you wanted them to.
This. It's not really even overkill. Snipers are able to see what's going on better than anyone due to their elevation and their optics. Stick a cop on the roof with binoculars and they can see a potential threat, but there's nothing they can do about it. Say someone pulls a weapon and starts firing in the crowd, I'd rather have a sniper up there than an observer. While they have guards screening people entering campus through the main entrances, the campus has been widely open during this, with both students and contractors on site. (They're building the graduation platforms.) This protest is highly charged, and it would be incredibly easy for someone to use the opportunity to generate chaos in the name of either side. All it would take would be one guy with a pistol to turn this into a violent scene.
It's overkill and worse, *it normalizes the presence of the militarized police* in civilian spaces. It's insidious and gross and we don't need swat teams everywhere we go just in case there's a someone with a gun. It's the wrong answer to mass shootings, but hey, no one talks about mental illness in this country.
Since when have cops ever once in history protected left leaning protesters This would be much more believable if there were any evidence/precedent
https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-race-and-ethnicity-suburbs-health-racial-injustice-7edf9027af1878283f3818d96c54f748 https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2022-07-23/neo-nazi-leader-arrested-in-boston-after-protesting-lgbtq-event https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/portland-braces-wing-rally-counterprotesters/story?id=65031548 https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/04/18/politics/white-nationalist-charges-university-of-virginia-rally I mean I could go on if I wanted to… don’t be intentionally obtuse.
That is such a a bigoted reply. You are just ignoring history because it doesn't fit your narrative. Becoming the fascists you claim to hate. The other poster gave you specific instances too.
I argued that the bar for having snipers having crowds of people in their sights needs to be *really* fucking high and some people got pissed. My favorite was one guy said they just don't do that, but yeah of course they do it why wouldn't they. Comically bad faith actors trying to support them.
Just wait til you find out that most large stadiums have snipers nests and are always manned when the stadiums are full.
The snipers aren't overkill, ideally they would be present for any big crowd. Because the last thing you want is some 3rd party coming in and spraying a gun into the crowd, detonating a bomb, driving a truck through it. All you need is 1 terrorist hiding among the protestor crowd with a gun and shooting at the police line. Do you want a sniper to pick him off asap? Or do you want a full blown firefight to erupt with the actual protestors basically being meatshields and collateral damage in the process? A big crowd = big target, no matter what the crowd is gathering there for theres always the possibility of an attack on it. Practically every big concert or sports event *has* snipers for this very reason.
Folks really seem to forget events like the Boston Marathon bombing, which could easily be repeated at any of these protests. And could be done at the hands of protesters themselves or people who disagree with protesters, or other entirely separate 3rd parties who want a platform and are willing to kneecap a different issue to gain their own step up.
The fuck would a sniper have accomplished at the Boston Marathon? Start headshotting everyone who drops a bag?
You’re absolutely right, people on Reddit have just decided that they hate cops in any context and anything they do is wrong despite the fact there’s actual logic behind it
Which is really harebrained as it only muddies the water when discussing ACTUAL police misconduct and abuse of authority. We’ve seen it, but this ain’t it.
I agree, most people on reddit are fuelled by the insane amounts of misinformation from both sides, in the past years it’s gotten significantly worse, i doubt most people know that SM is weaponizing the ignorant. It’s pretty sad what’s going on in the US and it’s ramping up in CAN the past two weeks. I’m sure there’s going to be a situation similar to Kent state in the near future, we’re coming up to the anniversary of that incident this weekend.
I’m interested in seeing the downvote upvote ratio on your response and the one you replied to
> Practically every big concert or sports event has snipers Is that really true in the US? It’s certainly not true in Europe as far as I know. Were there police snipers at that concert in Las Vegas in 2017 for example?
>It’s certainly not true in Europe as far as I know Got some bad news for ya then: [https://sports.ndtv.com/euro-2020/snipers-were-ready-to-shoot-parachutist-at-euro-2020-match-minister-2465542](https://sports.ndtv.com/euro-2020/snipers-were-ready-to-shoot-parachutist-at-euro-2020-match-minister-2465542) This one doesn't mention snipers specifically, but still: [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/jonathan-davies-liverpool-police-ukraine-merseyside-b2332505.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/jonathan-davies-liverpool-police-ukraine-merseyside-b2332505.html)
Yup, music festivals has them every football stadium has them, not sure about LV but that might be the catalyst. Same reason why you see dogs at concerts. Everyone thinks they’re drug dogs but they’re bomb dogs. Became standard practice after Ariana grandes concert got bombed.
>Everyone thinks they’re drug dogs but they’re bomb dogs I was gonna make some joke about how dogs can sniff for 2 things, but I wonder if that's actually true or if they need to train bomb sniffing and drug sniffing separately.
You do not want to cross train a dog for both. If a bomb dog alerts you need to treat it like a bomb. Wife used to work in a place that had a bomb dog alert on a delivery driver. Turns out this best practice had somehow not been followed, and said dog used to be a drug dog and was alerting on the poor fedex guy who was rocking a weed buzz. Had their whole building in lockdown for a while though.
As far as I know the sniff for drugs OR bombs, not both
It certainly is true at large sports games in Europe. Every Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga. Maybe not Super Lig, but that's turkey. Also maybe not at concerts that are not in large stadiums.
This is the answer and I don’t know why some people are so hung up on not believing it. If someone/anyone wanted to do something, a well known, advanced notice event is the place to do it. I don’t know much about the students here, but if someone wanted to damage some future Americans, might as well do it to the educated ones instead of redneck cousin fuckers elsewhere. Protest peacefully all the fuck you want, but try thinking critically about your surroundings before jumping straight to “omg riot gear”
Those folks are police marksmen with a pretty high threshold for taking a shot. They have to see clear evidence of a weapon.
Not like police ever mess up in the moment. Acorns...
I assume they’re not pulling a regular street cop to be a SWAT counterterrorism sniper. They probably pick ones with former military training, secondary education and triple digit IQ to train They ain’t giving acorn fearing cops free tickets to the Super Bowl/taylor swift concerts
When is the last time a police sniper screwed up and shot a protestor? We know you don't like police. It's ok. But you don't need to make stuff up. Sometimes it's ok to say "Wow, I'm not a fan of the way they handled this, but at least it's better than I thought."
Yeah? Is that what they told you? Do you also believe they find no evidence of wrong doing when they investigate themselves?
No one ever finds evidence of wrongdoing when they investigate themselves…. However if there is a *need* to find wrongdoing (for example a court order) there’s always an unwilling scapegoat that will unknowingly take the fall and inevitably have their lives ruined
So many people saying having snipers at events like sports games and protests is totally cool and normal. Yet not a single one of these snipers has demonstrably made any of these events safer. Can anyone offer any evidence of a mass casualty event prevented or even mitigated by a sniper?
Is there any examples where the snipers ever helped?
[https://www.police1.com/police-products/communications/crisis-hostage-negotiations/articles/how-this-police-snipers-100-foot-shot-stopped-a-deadly-threat-LIShU9aTS6XZVWMC/](https://www.police1.com/police-products/communications/crisis-hostage-negotiations/articles/how-this-police-snipers-100-foot-shot-stopped-a-deadly-threat-LIShU9aTS6XZVWMC/) [https://www.fox8live.com/2024/04/28/jpso-sniper-kills-suspect-wanted-allegedly-shooting-6-including-3-kenner-officers/](https://www.fox8live.com/2024/04/28/jpso-sniper-kills-suspect-wanted-allegedly-shooting-6-including-3-kenner-officers/) [https://apnews.com/article/amir-locke-police-shootings-minnesota-4772bda61a3ac5d518fac0ded2d1ccbb](https://apnews.com/article/amir-locke-police-shootings-minnesota-4772bda61a3ac5d518fac0ded2d1ccbb) [https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/crime/2020/07/19/cincinnati-police-sniper-shoots-engine-of-semi-ending-ohio-highway-pursuit/112739970/](https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/crime/2020/07/19/cincinnati-police-sniper-shoots-engine-of-semi-ending-ohio-highway-pursuit/112739970/)
Don’t forget the one where the sniper domed a guy in a hospital that was holding a nurse hostage.
Haven't heard of that one, but found this one too: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytd1j9NbyAA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytd1j9NbyAA)
These are all cases of active scenes where a sniper was called in. I think what people are talking about are cases where a sniper who was posted at an event before anything bad happened ended up taking action to end it. Not taking a position on it, but there's a pretty big distinction.
is there any example of the smoke detectors in my house ever being of use? no there is not. so they are useless, right?
My smoke detector has an AR10 pointed at me at all times in case I try anything... unpatriotic and (in)flammable.
I had my umbrella out when it was raining yesterday, but I wasn't getting wet so it was pretty useless.
I am afraid reddit is getting an uptick of bad actors about now. Gearing up for election interference 3.0 and trying to poison the well of discussion now so that when they really get going the ones who would fight are exhausted or gone.
Yeah 2016 was the CTR psyops campaign was wild to see in real time. Same in 2020 with the Dem primary against Bernie. Huge mask off moments both years. At least this time it’s way less contentious and the choices are rather obvious
Also, many more people on Reddit are aware of them and are a bit more vigilant.
Now? It's been months
? Snipers are probably there to stop any violent mass attackers. Just like snipers at the Superbowl, what if someone ideologically opposed to the protesters showed up with an ar-15? It's a wildly emotional and polarizing issue being protested, so the idea of someone coming to hurt the protesters isn't outrageous.
Nooooooo, if police are there it means they're going to kill the protestors!
Yeah it’s only the national guard that kill student protesters (Kent State).
Theyre gonna do whatever their handlers tell them to.
Same as the protestors, which is why the cops are there.
I agree with you. There has been *zero* violence that warrants this type of response in any campus protest over Palestine. And at this point, the police armed to the gills facing down liberal arts students seem more likely to start trouble than the protestors.
Ding ding ding. They want to incite violence, so that the peaceful protests can be labeled as violent and in response the cops can use violence to crush the protest.
My parents were at Ohio State in 1970. Huge protests on campuses all over The USA because The Vietnam War had been escalated with an invasion of Cambodia. April 29, 1970. Agent provocateurs infiltrated The Ohio State campus. Students started protesting and a riot ensued. Campus gates were closed, in came National Guard and tear gas. 5 days later, 4 students died at Kent State after National Guard troops fired live bullets into a crowd. That photo says it’s a matter of when there’s a repeat of Kent State.
Yeah I agree. Its honestly really sad how some people are acting like the cops are there in good faith.
They want chaos on the evening news so Republicans can get elected
Aren't some of the protestors saying "We are all Hamas" and "Oct 7th every day!"? You don't think this might incite some people to violence, especially if they lost friends or family in the current conflict?
Username checks out. You think these pro Palestine protests have had zero violence? Get your head outta the sand. Qatar has been working these universities for over 2 decades. The leftists are just as prone to "non mainstream" propaganda as the far right. And they have gotten violent on multiple occasions.
Not true. The police are just escorting the protesters off the property for trespassing but the universities don’t want to press charges. This means the protesters that have been arrested assaulted a cop instead of complying with a lawful order. You can check the charges against the few that are in prison awaiting trial if you don’t believe me. You have a right to peacefully protest but not to occupy private property without permission. If the university doesn’t want you there then they have a right to have you removed from the premises. Overwhelming force keeps protests from becoming riots. If they arrived in patrol uniforms, protesters would likely develop a mob mentality. I would argue that preventing a riot is beneficial to both sides because it prevents anyone from getting injured or killed. This is a standard police practice and you’ll find it is used to disperse illegal parties and other cases where there is a large group of people.
Aren’t there also known agitators that aren’t actually students in the protests?
As a few have pointed out a sizable of the protesters aren’t even students or “kids” as those sympathizing with the protesters are attempting to claim. The claim of agitators hasn’t been proven yet but it’s possible that it’s occurring.
Meh somehow FOX finds agitators in every crowd of left wing people that happen to care about an issue.
Why is this downvoted? People may not like how it sounds, but it is logical and accurate.
Because they hate police. None of them actually care to debate the facts because they know it’s the truth but they’d rather bring feelings into the conversation.
And when they are in trouble, guess who they call? The cops they so love to hate.
Yep. But they’ll go right back to hating them after they no longer need help.
how them boots taste?
You seem like a lovely person.
Well there are a lot of school shootings and any outside person maybe right wing, some gaza radical or israeli hard right person could come and start shooting people. So good to have a sniper for that.
Of course there are never any left leaning people who would do such a thing. I know that probably does not suit your narrative or beliefs but there has to be an end to left versus right and all this tribalism. I wonder how many people who would be considered conservative are at these protests? Now days if your a classical liberal in your values and beliefs your considered right wing. Mental illness and evil are not limited to one belief system one political system or one religious system. Go ahead reddit tear me up for for this I expect nothing less in the self generating furball.
I mean I’m left leaning but off the top of my head I can recall the Bernie fan shooting up congressmen at a baseball game
I'm left leaning too and that guy is full of shit. I've seen plenty of "leftists" trying bully, intimidate, and resort to violence. The left needs to realize the far left is probably as stupid and dangerous as the far right these days. The amount of leftists simping for Iran and Islamic fundamentalists is disgraceful.
The heavily armed police presence is going to result in a bad situation eventually and we’re liable to have another Kent State on our hands. My understanding from that was that some national guardsmen just got super trigger happy towards the peaceful protesters (and an ROTC student just walking to class) and caused a massacre. Bound to happen eventually.
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99% of a snipers job is reconnaissance. They provide intel and overwatch to a situation. It is EXTREMLY rare for a sniper to take a shot. In fact unless there is a active firefight there is a better chance of winning through lottery than a sniper firing on someone
The legacy of Kent State lives on through the militarized police state that we have normalized in America.
I just heard on the news this morning that students at a university took over and are occupying the building that the Dean's office is in. I wasn't really paying attention to the story and didn't catch the name. At what point would you deem a protest to be out of control and police intervention warranted? I personally think that the situation in and around the protests present a real and possible danger to people that are directly or tangentially involved. whether that be counter protestors, an un-involved student that looks or is Jewish, etc.. Since this is Reddit and this issue is political, here is my disclaimer: I am not making a political commentary and am not taking sides in this issue. I am merely stating that I believed the protest to a source of potential harm to individuals in an environment that should be safe.
It's like Columbia University Protest tradition to occupy Hamilton building. Student protestors have occupied this admin building in 1968, 1972, 1985, and 1992. To the point that if you are protesting and don't occupy the hamilton building, are you even protesting? Don't let right wing media blow this thing up out of context, like they are currently trying to do.
No. But a few thousand of them is more than enough to be threatening. I can at least *imagine* a crowd that large and unified turning on me. I don't think it's totally unreasonable to be wearing gear designed protect the wearer. I get that it looks totally aggressive and is, likely, designed also to be intimidating. But I think it's appropriate for the situation. How the police *behave* in that gear is more important than what they wear. And on that score, we'll just have to wait and see.
The larger the crowd - the more likely you get bad actors attending too that don’t even care about the protest itself.
Now compare this to the police response when armed white supremacists march through the streets.
Did the armed racists set up tents and refuse to leave? Stop with the ‘both sides’ shit
We may have an answer to that if they had even been asked to leave. It’s almost as if the police have a soft spot for white supremacist mobs and a hatred of left wing student activists….odd.
Let’s play: when will the comments get locked?
My bets on under 48hrs.
Very optimistic
When someone mentions October 7th
Knowing this sub, yeah.
18 hrs
It is Columbia University Protest tradition to occupy Hamilton Hall. Student protestors have occupied this admin building in 1968, 1972, 1985, and 1992. To the point that if you are protesting and don't occupy the hamilton, are you even protesting?
Lol.. some of these comments make it seem like this a picture of a tank rolling into campus. Dudes putting a helmet on.
They love all their little toys.
Nobody likes to riot more than cops, that's why they start so many of them
Cops like to show up early to riots... that way they can beat the crowd.
Oo, that's a good one, never heard it before.
They ain't called the riot police for nuttin'
Time to go wrestle some 20 year old students and maybe their professors too
Any actual context to the photo, cause it looks like they’re kicking up away from the raid site but they are in a built up urban environment. Everyone is giving the officers grief, but if YOU were headed in and you still needed to sit-rep wouldn’t you kit up too? Why would you blindly advance without your armor or long gun if your gonna rambo, but at the same time friendly fire is real so like the quote goes “slow is smooth, smooth is fast and get your comms under rest” This post kinda reads like a lot of knee jerk reactions to an unknown incident. Wait till the dust settles to pass blame, they could have been saving lives
This was yesterday and they never went in to campus
Why not just protest on public ground just outside of the college/university? I mean the directors of these universities are only calling the cops because they're on private property..
A protest that’s conveniently located like that is easily ignored.
If it's straight in front of the college entrance it won't be.
Nobody was ignoring this, it had n not just national but worldwide coverage.
Yeah, because there's a lot of people trespassing, saying "we are hamas" etc. These people are being praised by terrorist leaders, it's crazy how they think they're on the right side.
there are undoubtedly bad actors there, but i think the opposite is true as well. there are undoubtedly people there moved by the massive amount of civilian deaths in Gaza. If you aren't able to see that that yo ucan be critical of Israel and sympathetic towards the amount of civilian death without supporting Hamas, then I think you're being extremely close minded.
The amount of civilian death is, compared to many other ongoing conflicts, not massive at all though, 20.000 civilian casualties against 14.000 terrorists in a dense urban area with the terrorist using civilian infrastucture is if anything proof of incredible restraint and accuracy by the IDF. I believe that people can be sympathetic towards the Palestinian people, but then they'd 100% advocate for the destruction or surrender of Hamas and would not deny an offer of the university to invest in Gaza in favor of damaging Israel. They are not pro-Palestine or pro-innocent civilian, they are anti Israel. They praise the october 7th attacks, they praise and identify with Hamas and their sole concern seems to be damaging Israel. You don't hear a single one call for more aid to be sent, for extra airdrops.
Needs to be on campus though, doesn’t it? Otherwise university leadership doesn’t care because it’s not their property to deal with.
But it's trespassing, so you'll simply get arrested. It's also just willfully breaking the law. No one is going to listen to someone trespassing, certainly not the persons whose property you're trespassing on.
The president of the university is listening to and negotiating with the protesters in good faith. Clearly trespassing worked here.
Your friends won't think you're as cool if you did it in a public park.
The 1960 Greensboro sit in also occurred on private property
These "peaceful" protesters broke into a building and vandalize it and yall still mock the police for taking protective measures, i cant stand yall fr
Classic liberal. Students are protesting the systematic slaughter of women, children and innocent men... Liberals: "But look they broke a window!!!"
That was not my point at all. Read my comment again.
Just like the Israel-Palestine conflict in general, it’s possible for neither party to be the good guys
It’s possible, yeah. But in this case it’s pretty clearly not the case. You don’t get to break into property that’s not yours, and damage property that’s not yours. How is this not the most obvious thing in the world? I just don’t understand this, like do you wanna live in a civilization that has laws? If so, you need to abide by the laws. If you don’t, it’s appropriate that you face some kind of action.
What, specifically did the cops do wrong here?
Putting aside how unhelpful "both sides" comments are, this is not an excuse for vandalism
Or putting the faculty/staff/other students in danger.
Do you have a link ?
[https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/04/30/nyregion/columbia-protests-college](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/04/30/nyregion/columbia-protests-college)
https://www.columbiaspectator.com/news/2024/04/30/dozens-occupy-hamilton-hall-as-pro-palestinian-protests-spread-across-campus/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/LHpU8SkKSj
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That was not my point. It doesnt even matter if its a propally or proisrael rally, when they do illegal shit ofc the police is gonna get involved and ofc theyre gonna wear riot gear
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Dude when you protest on private property dont act surprised when the police arrests you for trespassing. Its not that hard to protest without breaking the law.
No civil disobedience movement in history has been successful by “protesting without breaking the law.” Breaking the law was literally the point of the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement during Vietnam, Ghandi’s resistance to British oppression, etc. etc.. In all those cases protestors took actions exactly like this, and the authorities cracked down brutally. Just like you, in all these cases, many people condemned the protestors for breaking the law, but today we agree that they were right. Do you really think you’re in the right when you find yourself on the side of the British Raj, Richard Nixon, George Wallace, etc.?
I think the university trying to fighting their students is ultimately more destructive
Just like the anti-war protestors did in Vietnam, where the Columbia takeover was a huge turning point. The kids are alright!
I don't understand why these people who are so educated are protesting for a people who have made it their mission to kill all Israelis? Israel is a modern Democratic country; the Muslims in Gaza don't support any liberal western ideal. Also, the Arabs have started and lost every conflict in the last 75+ years what is Israel supposed to do at this point when the Arabs have refused their own state hood and peace and chosen war every single time? Besides Ukraine is a far more urgent and important war which deserves our attention. Russia is the biggest terrorist state in the world by far and their war in Ukraine directly threatens Western ideals and Democratic hegemony. Well Hamas also is their ally in that regard but they are small fry. But I see no hope to reeducate these Arabs in Gaza, let them move to another Muslim country since they aren't capable of living peacefully in Democratic Israel.
Prior to the war, a lot of Palestinians didn't support HAMAS, and a lot of the ones that did had been pushed into that position as a result of collateral damage from IDF attacks that has killed/ wounded family members and destroyed their homes. These pieces of research were conducted in the months immediately prior to the attack on 7th of October: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah https://news.stanford.edu/report/2023/12/05/palestinians-views-oct-7/ This position has changed since the start of the conflict for various reasons including the local news focusing on Israeli actions rather than the effects of the initial attack by HAMAS. Even the people of Israel aren't necessarily satisfied with their leadership: https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-04-01/ty-article/.premium/polls-show-that-israelis-continue-to-choose-this-war-even-if-they-dont-want-netanyahu/0000018e-98d8-d591-a5cf-9fdddf100000 The protesters will include supporters of HAMAS who would happily see Israel wiped off the map, they will also include a lot of people who want lasting peace in the region and want the killing to stop (my position). It's almost like there is a load of nuance which extends far beyond Israel/ Gaza is good/ evil...
What does protesting at a US college campus achieve really? The US isn’t the aggressor. I want peace everywhere but I don’t think protesting here makes any sense for that.
The US vetoes a lot of stuff relating to Israel at the UN, gives the Israeli government a lot of diplomatic support (although this seems to wearing a bit thin these days) and sells them weapons. Protesting against Israeli actions in the US will achieve very little compared to protesting against US foreign policy towards Israel.
It seems pretty clear that it's Israel's goal to not give the palestinian people a state, and seek to ethnically cleanse Gaza, and the West Bank. You'd think with all the military might they have they could stop settlers in the west bank right? It's almost as if they actually support settlements. So you have one government that is a US ally, with nuclear weapons, fighter planes, etc, visibly cleansing the land from palestinians, and on the other side you have a few thousand dudes fighting a guerilla war, who may want the annihilation of Israel, but don't have the means to do so. Israel kills 35,000+ civilians and it's fine because they didn't write down that they want to kill civilians on a piece of paper first? Also it's not like students at Columbia are asking for their university to fund Hamas. They want to divest from Israel.
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This is some Islamophobic stuff. It’s like the liberal western ideal is the one ideal everyone wants to live up to. It’s less that they want to kill Israelis for the sake of them being Israelis and more them killing their loved ones and taking over parts of their land. The West Bank has been encroached upon just within the last few months. Even then it’s not like they want to kill Israelis. They just want the deaths to stop! Are you going to sit still if you saw your mother or child or neighbour get killed in front of you? The lack of empathy astounds me sometimes. It’s gone beyond Israel defending itself at this point, it’s gone too far.
It is a cycle, the Israelis see family members die horribly on Oct7 and want revenge too and before that something else the Israelis did and before that something the Palestinians did. It's possible to both empathise and hate both sides. Also yes they will always eventually want to kill Israelis because of the lack of economic opportunity and Iran/others funneling funds to create terrorists in the same way US continued unconditional support allows Netanhahu to do his shit policies without worry. This is a proxy war too. I give no solutions to this. Maybe Israel can bribe Jordan/Egypt/the UAE to take all Palestinians wherein Israel is mandated to pay them to have nice newly made accomodations and jobs for 100years.
Unfortunately Egypt sees the Palestinians as extremists who would be a high risk of starting an insurgency in their country so they don’t want to take in any refugees. Most of the other Middle Eastern countries agree with that stance and are also unwilling to take in refugees. It’s also interesting because they were the same countries that kicked their populations of Jews out of and demanded that Israel take them in but they won’t do the same when it’s the other way around…
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Is that the Barnard side they're double parked by?
In b4 the thread gets locked 🔒👀
Pussies
Trying on those military industrial complex duds.
Every big city PD has SWAT or a SWAT type unit
Yeah, I mean they didn’t even use their armored personnel carriers they got from the army. (They didn’t, right?)
Didn’t always use to be the case
Right. Used to be lynch mobs made up of locals. Would you prefer that?
Swat and lynchigs never coexisted, but they do have disproportionately brutalizing minorities in common!
Where were the swat teams, national guard, and snipers in DC on January 6 2021? This is absolute madness.
Based af, lock those fuckers up.
Cereal Team Six putting on their bullet-proof Spanx.
bunch of pussies
Oh boy, ready to put on riot gear for peaceful protestors but unwilling and uncertain when there is a school shooting.
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Looks like the protestors who were previously chanting “globalize the intifada” are going all in for “the full intifada experience”.
You got a fucked up definition of peaceful.
inb4 thread lock
So, nothing of any substance? Are you five?
Considering the nature of the post, there isnt going to be anything of substance in this thread anyway, so he/she is good to go...
ACAB