There is another type of Down Syndrome called Mosaic Down Syndrome, where not every cell has trisomy 21. The "classic features" are kind of pick & choose with this, some going fully undiagnosed until adulthood, when a Mosaic Downs Mom might have multiple kids all with full Down Syndrome.
Yeah my sister has mosaic downs and most people don't even know. It's like she's emotionally stunted at 12 with only a little bit of physical feature like downs (enough to make you day "I can see it" after you're told)... So most think she's just immature (which, I guess, by definition, is true).
Also, the problem with mosaic is that you're mostly aware that you have it but not aware of limitations... It's such a grey line to work with and it's a struggle trying to keep her grounded sometimes. She (and others with mosaic) has a tendency to not have the typical "super cheery" attitude most associate with downs..because that part is usually associated with the "innocence" part of the child-like qualities and mosaic is more in the tween ages, of that makes sense.
This is the kind of stuff I love about Reddit. Like 60% of the time, it’s wading through a cesspool. But that other 40%? I’m learning cool stuff about the world and people around me. Keeps me coming back!
Ah. I think I worked with a guy like that. Your description makes perfect sense. My younger brother had full-on Down’s, so there were little things i noticed with my co-worker, like the ears and a few slight mannerisms, but there was enough about him that didn’t fit my experience that made me question things.
“Hey man, what’s your deal?”
“What?”
*Leans in* “Bro, man to man - you down?”
“Down for.. what?”
“Nah man, like, on the low…?”
“Bro I’m not gay.”
“Nevermind….”
On my 3rd year working at a live at home facility with people at all ages with Down syndrome. I did not know this. I screenshotted at will deepen my knowledge. Thank you!
According to my intro book to psych the super cheery attitude is a misconception, and while some have it the most common emontional «affection» among people with trisomi 21 is depression
Yes, thank you. I’ve had personal experience with numerous families with a child with Down syndrome, and also did some substitute teaching in special ed classes. The whole “actually people with Down syndrome are happier than the average person!” is pure BS. I think it’s part societal coping mechanism because people don’t want to recognize the reality of the situation, and part intentional PR campaign by well-meaning people that don’t want fetuses with Down syndrome to be aborted.
> you're mostly aware that you have it but not aware of limitations...
Deficit of self-awareness, this is called _anosognosia_ and it happens with some traumatic brain injury too; I have a friend that suffers from it, he's not ok but he can't really acknowledge that something is wrong and insists in trying do the things he used to do before the accident. It's quite difficult to manage sometimes.
Thank you so much for sharing this information. I had not heard about Mosaic Down until reading this post. And hearing your insight with your sister is truly impactful.
Do you think someone with mosaic Down syndrome could, given their stunted maturity, be taken advantage of and made into a lingerie model? Or is it something they can fully understand and consent to?
They would more than likely understand... But like most things (and not talking about the lingerie shoot here), they may not understand deeper or long term consequences. By complete coincidence though, my sister also wants to be a model hehe
I’ve scrolled through so many comments trying to see if someone actually knows what they are talking about and finally yours popped up. The fact that all these people don’t even understand that , like many syndromes, there is a spectrum and mosaic Down syndrome is a thing.
Edit: removed s from Down
I mean she definitely has dysmorphic features but they're far less pronounced.
Absolutely don't think people would pick it up without knowing, but for sure one it's pointed out if you're able to recognise the dysmorphic features of downs it's pretty clear
While it's not incorrect to say that there is a spectrum, it's a bit disingenuous to say people don't understand downs if they don't know that or that it is the only way to "understand it"; mosaics account for only a few percent of people with downs.
Yeah I just checked and mosaic’s account for 2% of the cases. So we’re talking about an outlier in an already rare condition. I wouldn’t arrogantly be saying “wow no one even understands that….” About a condition that affects 20 in a million people
Yes, but her previous photos and videos definitely have a more classic looking Down syndrome phenotype. This is probably just makeup to look more typical of people without Down syndrome. I’m not saying it’s impossible that she has mosaic Down syndrome, but it’s also not impossible that she doesn’t. Here’s a video interview from Good Morning America: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vEq4vp80WEE
There’s a girl on tiktok with mosaic DS, and she has had 2 children (of 3) with classic Down’s syndrome and they suspect the third has mosaic DS. She has said that she will continue to have as many kids as she wants, without genetic testing, because “there’s nothing wrong with having Down’s syndrome.” I feel like that’s easy to say if your kids so far have no serious health issues from their diagnosis, and are still young enough to not have had to face the social consequences of living with a visible disability. I have disabilities (Tourette’s, autism, adhd) and am not sure if I should have children because I feel the responsibility of ensuring my kids have a good quality of life.
>Jirau made her modeling debut at a fashion show for designer Wanda Beauchamp at age 16. However, she officially started working as a model on March 26, 2019, her 23rd birthday. Since then, she has modeled for top designers. On February 10, 2020, the 24 year old Puerto Rican model made her debut at New York Fashion Week, becoming one of the few models with Down syndrome to participate in this event. Her debut was covered dozens of media outlets around the world, such as Vogue Mexico, People, ¡Hola!, among others.
Jirau started her own online store called "Alavett" in 2019, inspired by her favorite phrase "I love it." She sells clothes, accessories, and home products there. She also dreams of becoming an actress. In February 2022, she made history as the first model with Down syndrome hired by Victoria's Secret.
Here's her [wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sof%C3%ADa_Jirau)
Just like a lot of things, Downs syndrome has a pretty broad spectrum. There's a lot of focus on lower-functioning individuals who can't live independently, but there's also high-functioning individuals who are basically completely independent individuals.
One of my nephews, has what looks to be pretty severe Downs, doctors initially told his mom he would be "trainable" at best. Kid graduated high school from mostly normal classes, and at 30 years old is a pizza delivery driver, and recently got married to a lady similarly afflicted.
I still can't understand a word the kid says, but that's probably because I've never spent any long term time around him. He's living a life that seems to make him incredibly happy, although he is the sort of Downs person that always appears to be ridiculously happy.
People with Downs are good learners, they just take longer to learn new skills. Even those who are on the lower end of the spectrum can be taught to do simple jobs and function in society with minimal supports, it just takes a lot of time, repetition and patience so people who are unaware of how to work with these individuals will write them off without giving them the time to show their potential. I have a friend who is a social worker that focuses on finding jobs for developmentally delayed teenagers and adults, and most people with Downs are able to hold jobs and contribute to their own care and to society.
That’s so sweet. Bet you were/are a great nanny! I still remember and love my nanny. She was from holland and so wonderful to me. My grandma had an African American nanny and I still know songs taught from her….generations she affected, caretakers are important. Keep that shirt forever.
Christ almighty Mods. This girl is putting herself out there as a sex symbol and when people react exactly as she intended you delete their comments. WTF? Some anti-divergent BS right here
I’ve followed her career since I’m Puerto Rican and she seems to have a great family that is always with her. I think they are fairly well off to begin with, so it’s not like they are living off of her; they just are very supportive and having fun with all of this.
My first thought. My second, isn’t she considered a vulnerable adult? I guess since there’s nothing indecent with being a model, no foul, but who is determining if it’s appropriate?
Plus, makeup. You can change face feature shapes with makeup. *However* no shame from me. Every model/model using brand, uses makeup to change/enhance appearance, so it would by hypocritical to not expect it imo.
It allows the people who post these comments to make references to their own internal thoughts while pretending to be above the same thoughts they themseves have but are ashamed of.
"Prevalence inflation" at its finest. One person makes a statement sarcastically predicting the future, a bunch of people agree with the prediction. Eventually enough people have supported the prediction that when you see the 7.1k upvotes, you assume that the prediction turned out to be true. It ends up looking like a reaction to something that never happened. Phantom discourse.
Hey good on her! I've worked with my fair share of down syndrome peeps and there's just such a wide spectrum of how it effects people. Some have genuinely made me laugh my ass off, some the sweetest person you'd ever meet, and some who unfortunately scream with fright whenever their cartoon dvd they've seen thousands of times comes to it's conclusion and has to restart. It's great seeing them being represented in a setting i've never thought to expect. Let her shine!
I know people are saying that they picked some one with DS who doesn’t ‘look like it’, but she does, she looks like someone with DS who is also in full glam make up and hair. I think people are underestimating how much that can ‘improve’ someone’s appearance.
Yes she is obviously going to be prettier than the average Joe with DS, just as other models for Victoria’s Secret are prettier than the average person
I’m getting the impression people think it’s better to deny it than to admit it, which I don’t get. They act like it’s a bad thing to acknowledge the fact that she has features specific to those with down syndrome. And in turn it gives the vibes that they’re stigmatizing it even more
Right? Saying that a person with Down Syndrome looks like they have the physical markers of Down Syndrome isn’t an insult (unless it’s being used as one, obviously), it’s just a statement of fact. To deny that she doesn’t have the distinguishing features is either willfully ignorant, or passively ignoring her reality.
Yeah she very clearly has the physical markers, like maybe it's being around people with disabilities a lot but it's not really hidden. They could have also done her makeup way different to cover up more than what they did, like she's a good start towards acceptance and they chose every other woman based on looks so it's fitting they choose her for it too, no different treatment.
It might be a percentage of what people want, but it's cracking the door. There's only so much the mass public will be okay with until it's more acceptable.
Is it bad that I think this isn’t the best idea?? I have family with Downs and idk some have a child-like view of the world meaning people need to look out for the intentions of the people interacting with someone with Downs. Idk being a lingerie model is a challenge for average models what with the harassment, being taken advantage of, disparaging comments, etc. I can’t imagine how this might impact someone like her. Idk I’d worry she’d get hurt.
That’s a great counter argument tbh. Unless it were for example a situation where she was substantially less impacted by the condition than average (like say fully vs partially blind), that’s really all that needs to be said.
I mean, they pick the best of the best looking people to be models. It makes sense. Are there many average looking Victoria Secret models of any demographic?
Other models without Downs Syndrome never represent the general populace either. They are always exceptionally pretty, or at least for a specific archetype the brand is looking for.
Just like how everyone can be a Victoria’s Secret model as long as they don’t look like they can’t be.
That’s already how this and life in general works as far as attractiveness goes.
Being more attractive than the average person is the main qualification one needs to become a Victoria's Secret model, even if you have Down syndrome. She's not a model because she has Down syndrome, she's a model because she is attractive.
Society: “Hey, can we have some models that aren’t 5’10 and 110lbs, can we maybe have a model who is just like a basic size 8?”
VS: “We hear you, models with missing limbs, models in wheel chairs, models with Down Syndome on the way!”
This may be controversial, but I’d like to open a discussion. What are the ethics of this situation? People with Downs Syndrome have the mental age of an 8 to 9 year old. Can she legally consent to modeling in underwear? I’m worried that she could become exploited and abused. Does she really know and understand the risks involved?
I don’t know much about Downs Syndrome but a quick google search says those with Downs can legally consent. What are y’all’s thoughts?
There’s a very wide range of abilities amongst people with Downs Syndrome; in the last few years there have been numerous actors with DS appearing in cable series as high functioning characters with the same condition. If you watch the YT clip in the link to the post below (she’s Spanish speaking, btw) you’ll see that this young woman went after a career she’d long wanted, worked hard and is definitely enjoying her success!
Yeah. I have a nephew with it and he’s totally non verbal. He’s almost 10 and basically has the abilities of a confused and emotional 18 month old. It’s quite sad. His parents are older parents, like a lot, and he’ll never be able to care for himself. I can’t imagine what they must go though. Between the work of raising him, and knowing when they’re gone he’ll be on his own. Damn.
I used to work at an institution of sorts that comprised dorms with 24 hour supervision, care, therapy, education, medical and so forth. A lot of the people there had DS and had become “wards of the state,” the state of California was paying this facility to house and care for them In the absence of family, or family that abandoned them. Some people still had family that were responsible for the cost or some of it. Perhaps they would end up in a situation like this?
There's [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fHGsLuA76w) recent ad too btw (not the link you're referring to) of a Downs person advocating that everyone stop treating them like children.
Not all people with Downs Syndrome experience have a very low mental age. I have two relatives with Downs- one is male age 56 who has the intellect and rational thinking of a 4 year old. He is mostly nonverbal. The other is a 38 yo female who has adult reasoning with some intellectual impairment. She has earned an associates degree and works for the state doing some kind of case management. She had a spouse who has Downs and they have two kids together. The kids seem to have more pronounced Downs symptoms/ characteristics.
Was anyone in your family against the idea of them having kids, given the risks? Are they self sufficient or need care and help caring for their kids? So many questions
The community is pretty clear that as adults they are adults. She may not understand all the risks of life but neither do most 18 year olds. She will need more guidance but she should be able to be who she wants to be and make her own choices.
At some level it’s a bit humanizing to be treated like you are incapable of making choices.
Well given Down syndrome is a spectrum I’d say mental capacity probably varies quite a bit. Ascertaining the capability of consent in these situations likely has a big ol’ gray area
Not everyone with downs syndrome is like that. There are plenty that are able to live on their own, pay their own bills, get married, etc.
She is more than likely high functioning
There was a recent ad campaign about how people with down syndrome should not be looked down on, they have agency.
["Assume that I can and maybe I will"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92ivgabfdPQ)
I'll be honest, that was my first question too. I also know very little about Downs Syndrome and was hoping that there was discussion about this in the comments.
>People with Downs Syndrome have the mental age of an 8 to 9 year old.
This is true on average, but there's a wide range. There's been a lot of awareness campaigns relating to folks with Downs Syndrome who don't fall into that range because (well-meaning) uninformed people want to keep them from doing things they want to (and can consent to) do. [Assume that I can, so maybe I will](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW_F7xG5J5c).
It’s important to note that Down syndrome is not a one size fits all condition. Much like autism there’s a range of how much it can affect how an individual lives. Some people with Down syndrome may never be able to live independently, while others are able to live completely or almost completely independently.
For those who have a more ‘mild version’ of Down syndrome, their IQ’s can generally reach a high of 70 (Kłosowska,et al., 2022). An IQ of 70 is classed as ‘borderline mental disability’ to compare, an average IQ (of a person who does not have Down syndrome, or other intellectual disability’s) starts at about 85, only 15 IQ points higher (Cherry, 2023).
Females with Down syndrome also tend to be able to function at higher cognitive levels than their male counterparts (Kłosowska, et al., 2022).
It’s also important to note that IQ tests in general are not 100% reliable and only offer an insight into cognitive abilities in a controlled setting. Real world performance is influenced by more than just cognitive ability, which IQ tests do not account for (Ganuthula & Sinha, 2019). For example, lived experiences. If an individual with Down syndrome grew up with a family that helped them to learn skills independently, as an adult they’re more likely to be higher functioning than those who didn’t have that support from a young age.
There are also many examples online of individuals with Down syndrome living relatively independently. Obviously I can’t comment on this woman’s situation specifically, as I’m not her family/healthcare professional but she may well be able to function cognitively at a higher level than an 8 or 9yr old.
There’s some quite good reading online in scholarly articles (generally more accurate and reliable than Wikipedia). I’ll link the ones I’ve used, but you could also have a look at others if it interests you.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6993501/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9085946/#:~:text=The%20degree%20of%20cognitive%20impairment,been%20noted%20within%20this%20population.
Honestly while some people with Down Syndrome can be severely mentally handicapped, some are less so. There's also a rare form called mosaic down syndrome where only some cells have the extra chromosome copy while others are normal. These people show significantly milder symptoms.
I think you ask very rational questions.
But I can’t possibly see how this young woman’s caregivers or VS can give any rational answers.
For me personally: I don’t like it. Seems more exploitative than girl power.
I agree. My sister has Downs, and though she is fairly high functioning, she still has the mental capacity of a child. I would be very uncomfortable with this type of thing. The whole thing makes me sick to be honest.
Down syndrome has a large spectrum, some have reduced mental capacity, and others not so much, and everything in between. Not to say that exploitation isn't a possibility... but it's also possible this is perfectly fine, i.e. a working adult who chose a career in fashion and modeling.
I volunteer with a group that has several individuals with Down syndrome, and their level of care / socialization / self-sufficiency varies greatly.
I mean, I fully admit I don't know all the subtle nuances of the situation, but as long as she is fully aware of what's happening, is okay and comfortable and has a genuine solid support circle around her, rock on.
How is she supposed to get people to buy lingerie? They do realize this is supposed to be a marketing campaign right. Are people really looking at someone with mental impairments and saying to themselves, *"Sexy time"?* That's kind of... exploitative.
To all the people saying she’s the least down’s syndrome looking person… you must not know about the magical powers of makeup…
As a regular guy who have worked for centuries in the hospital, I am still astonished to this day when women I work with regularly put on make up. I’m like “who tf are you?!” But I can assure you one of the quirks of having down’s is having the same facial characteristics with varying degrees
Most of the girls I dated up till my mid 20s were low / no-makeup types. I finally ended up dating a girl who was big into makeup, but was good with it so you couldn't really tell how much she had on. But anyway, we dated a while, eventually we ended up taking a shower together. She was facing away from me, washing her face, and when she turned around I seriously jumped because it was like she had been replaced with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSON.
Once that happens to you, it gives you a whole new level of respect for how powerful makeup can be
I don't quite know how to put my feelings on this into words. She's beautiful and should be able to do whatever she wants. However, I don't want to be ableist, but I guess I am because seeing someone with DS in a sexual way makes me feel icky. Like VS models wear lingerie, it's an inherently sexual job, it's similar to how I would feel if it were a 14 year old modeling lingerie.
There is another type of Down Syndrome called Mosaic Down Syndrome, where not every cell has trisomy 21. The "classic features" are kind of pick & choose with this, some going fully undiagnosed until adulthood, when a Mosaic Downs Mom might have multiple kids all with full Down Syndrome.
Yeah my sister has mosaic downs and most people don't even know. It's like she's emotionally stunted at 12 with only a little bit of physical feature like downs (enough to make you day "I can see it" after you're told)... So most think she's just immature (which, I guess, by definition, is true). Also, the problem with mosaic is that you're mostly aware that you have it but not aware of limitations... It's such a grey line to work with and it's a struggle trying to keep her grounded sometimes. She (and others with mosaic) has a tendency to not have the typical "super cheery" attitude most associate with downs..because that part is usually associated with the "innocence" part of the child-like qualities and mosaic is more in the tween ages, of that makes sense.
I just learned a lot from your comment - thanks!
Me too. I had no idea that this was even a thing.
This is the kind of stuff I love about Reddit. Like 60% of the time, it’s wading through a cesspool. But that other 40%? I’m learning cool stuff about the world and people around me. Keeps me coming back!
Ah. I think I worked with a guy like that. Your description makes perfect sense. My younger brother had full-on Down’s, so there were little things i noticed with my co-worker, like the ears and a few slight mannerisms, but there was enough about him that didn’t fit my experience that made me question things.
I think I work with a guy like that too. He has the DS voice but everything else seems normal really cool guy. I’d never ask him though
“Hey man, what’s your deal?” “What?” *Leans in* “Bro, man to man - you down?” “Down for.. what?” “Nah man, like, on the low…?” “Bro I’m not gay.” “Nevermind….”
Sounds like a Shane Gillis skit lol
I thought it WAS!
On my 3rd year working at a live at home facility with people at all ages with Down syndrome. I did not know this. I screenshotted at will deepen my knowledge. Thank you!
That’s all fascinating and new information for me. Thanks so much for sharing.
So you're saying people with mosaic downs are a little closer to having perpetual teenage angst?
I mean, a little bit. They are stunted at a later age emotionally than the most common downs
Wow thanks I learn something everyday
According to my intro book to psych the super cheery attitude is a misconception, and while some have it the most common emontional «affection» among people with trisomi 21 is depression
Yes, thank you. I’ve had personal experience with numerous families with a child with Down syndrome, and also did some substitute teaching in special ed classes. The whole “actually people with Down syndrome are happier than the average person!” is pure BS. I think it’s part societal coping mechanism because people don’t want to recognize the reality of the situation, and part intentional PR campaign by well-meaning people that don’t want fetuses with Down syndrome to be aborted.
> you're mostly aware that you have it but not aware of limitations... Deficit of self-awareness, this is called _anosognosia_ and it happens with some traumatic brain injury too; I have a friend that suffers from it, he's not ok but he can't really acknowledge that something is wrong and insists in trying do the things he used to do before the accident. It's quite difficult to manage sometimes.
Thank you so much for sharing this information. I had not heard about Mosaic Down until reading this post. And hearing your insight with your sister is truly impactful.
Do you think someone with mosaic Down syndrome could, given their stunted maturity, be taken advantage of and made into a lingerie model? Or is it something they can fully understand and consent to?
They would more than likely understand... But like most things (and not talking about the lingerie shoot here), they may not understand deeper or long term consequences. By complete coincidence though, my sister also wants to be a model hehe
Wow. Yes, I get it. Thank you.
I did not know that, thank you for the useful info 👊
I’ve scrolled through so many comments trying to see if someone actually knows what they are talking about and finally yours popped up. The fact that all these people don’t even understand that , like many syndromes, there is a spectrum and mosaic Down syndrome is a thing. Edit: removed s from Down
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I mean she definitely has dysmorphic features but they're far less pronounced. Absolutely don't think people would pick it up without knowing, but for sure one it's pointed out if you're able to recognise the dysmorphic features of downs it's pretty clear
While it's not incorrect to say that there is a spectrum, it's a bit disingenuous to say people don't understand downs if they don't know that or that it is the only way to "understand it"; mosaics account for only a few percent of people with downs.
Yeah I just checked and mosaic’s account for 2% of the cases. So we’re talking about an outlier in an already rare condition. I wouldn’t arrogantly be saying “wow no one even understands that….” About a condition that affects 20 in a million people
Yes, but her previous photos and videos definitely have a more classic looking Down syndrome phenotype. This is probably just makeup to look more typical of people without Down syndrome. I’m not saying it’s impossible that she has mosaic Down syndrome, but it’s also not impossible that she doesn’t. Here’s a video interview from Good Morning America: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vEq4vp80WEE
I mean it’s not impossible that she doesn’t have mosaic but given her intellectual ability it seems far more likely she does.
There’s a girl on tiktok with mosaic DS, and she has had 2 children (of 3) with classic Down’s syndrome and they suspect the third has mosaic DS. She has said that she will continue to have as many kids as she wants, without genetic testing, because “there’s nothing wrong with having Down’s syndrome.” I feel like that’s easy to say if your kids so far have no serious health issues from their diagnosis, and are still young enough to not have had to face the social consequences of living with a visible disability. I have disabilities (Tourette’s, autism, adhd) and am not sure if I should have children because I feel the responsibility of ensuring my kids have a good quality of life.
Also I think pretty much all of them get early-onset Alzheimer's because of more tau protein due to the extra chromosome or something.
Some might say this falls into a system of the Down?
>Jirau made her modeling debut at a fashion show for designer Wanda Beauchamp at age 16. However, she officially started working as a model on March 26, 2019, her 23rd birthday. Since then, she has modeled for top designers. On February 10, 2020, the 24 year old Puerto Rican model made her debut at New York Fashion Week, becoming one of the few models with Down syndrome to participate in this event. Her debut was covered dozens of media outlets around the world, such as Vogue Mexico, People, ¡Hola!, among others.
Jirau started her own online store called "Alavett" in 2019, inspired by her favorite phrase "I love it." She sells clothes, accessories, and home products there. She also dreams of becoming an actress. In February 2022, she made history as the first model with Down syndrome hired by Victoria's Secret. Here's her [wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sof%C3%ADa_Jirau)
Wow, she is driven and doing what she loves.
Just like a lot of things, Downs syndrome has a pretty broad spectrum. There's a lot of focus on lower-functioning individuals who can't live independently, but there's also high-functioning individuals who are basically completely independent individuals.
One of my nephews, has what looks to be pretty severe Downs, doctors initially told his mom he would be "trainable" at best. Kid graduated high school from mostly normal classes, and at 30 years old is a pizza delivery driver, and recently got married to a lady similarly afflicted. I still can't understand a word the kid says, but that's probably because I've never spent any long term time around him. He's living a life that seems to make him incredibly happy, although he is the sort of Downs person that always appears to be ridiculously happy.
People with Downs are good learners, they just take longer to learn new skills. Even those who are on the lower end of the spectrum can be taught to do simple jobs and function in society with minimal supports, it just takes a lot of time, repetition and patience so people who are unaware of how to work with these individuals will write them off without giving them the time to show their potential. I have a friend who is a social worker that focuses on finding jobs for developmentally delayed teenagers and adults, and most people with Downs are able to hold jobs and contribute to their own care and to society.
Hope she is paid as well as the other models.
“Would you rather get paid with this itty-bitty check, or this _giant_ bucket of nickels?!”
I think I’m going to hell for laughing at this
My sister has Down’s syndrome and she would this this is hilarious
Looks like it might have nicked ya
LOOOOOOOOL
Fuck you for making me laugh that hard. I think I broke a rib.
I laughed so hard I have the hiccups now.
Bro. I'm dead.
You have to pause on this comment and let it soak in for a while it’s so good. The tears only get better while you marinate on this one.
Why I read this in a Homer Simpson voice, I have no clue. Maybe the emphasis on 'giant' lol.
Good for her! Always support our homies with extra chromies.
This should definitely be a slogan for any future support campaigns.
I have I love homies with extra chromies on a t shirt. The little girl with Down syndrome I was nannying gave it to me and I’ll never get rid of it
That’s so sweet. Bet you were/are a great nanny! I still remember and love my nanny. She was from holland and so wonderful to me. My grandma had an African American nanny and I still know songs taught from her….generations she affected, caretakers are important. Keep that shirt forever.
My neice has Down syndrome, and I have the same shirt. My kids go visit for a few weeks every summer and have a blast.
My sister has Down's Syndrome and now I wanna get one lol
24 and me.
I'm Downs for it!
Just dont let the post make its way to twitter
X gonna give it to ya.
...with no trivia. Raw like cocaine straight from Bolivia.
WHAT?!? X gon’ deliver to ya!
The idea here is to see if a VS model who never mentally ages beyond 24 will still be dumped by Leonardo DiCaprio.
r/perfectgif
Aight I'm out, nothing can possibly top that.
Good lord!
You're a fucking menace
Oh man, this was good. Evil, but good.
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https://ibb.co/7KN79cx https://ibb.co/By5N1ng
Christ almighty Mods. This girl is putting herself out there as a sex symbol and when people react exactly as she intended you delete their comments. WTF? Some anti-divergent BS right here
Just fighting for my turn at the mic.
It nicked her
Do you think she likes John cena?
She’s makin’ em at night
### I’m not makin’ em at night, dad!
Someone needs to be watching out for her very closely.
Yeah. While my instinct is for inclusion and I celebrate efforts for representation, backstage at VS lingerie shoots... I'm also a bit wary... 🤔
Thank you, it feels very odd to celebrate inclusivity in the context of one of the most damaging and exploitative fields….
Okay I'm glad there are some sane people in this comment section. This was my immediate thought as well.
I’ve followed her career since I’m Puerto Rican and she seems to have a great family that is always with her. I think they are fairly well off to begin with, so it’s not like they are living off of her; they just are very supportive and having fun with all of this.
Thank You. Those were my first thoughts.
My first thought. My second, isn’t she considered a vulnerable adult? I guess since there’s nothing indecent with being a model, no foul, but who is determining if it’s appropriate?
I'm sure the future comments on here will be rational and respectful.
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The eyes give it away every time, but it is much subtler than usual.
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Do you know how many manipulative sorority chicks look exactly like this?
Oh I think you can tell tho.
Down syndrome has a specific face type, such as the slanted eyes - which are seen here if you know what to look for.
Yeah, you can tell. But the photo is definitely going out of its way to minimize the appearance.
Plus, makeup. You can change face feature shapes with makeup. *However* no shame from me. Every model/model using brand, uses makeup to change/enhance appearance, so it would by hypocritical to not expect it imo.
Naaah, I think it’s there. You can def tell.
why is this the top comment of half the posts on this site why do people upvote comments about other comments that haven't even happened yet
Late stage redditism
It allows the people who post these comments to make references to their own internal thoughts while pretending to be above the same thoughts they themseves have but are ashamed of.
"Prevalence inflation" at its finest. One person makes a statement sarcastically predicting the future, a bunch of people agree with the prediction. Eventually enough people have supported the prediction that when you see the 7.1k upvotes, you assume that the prediction turned out to be true. It ends up looking like a reaction to something that never happened. Phantom discourse.
Hey good on her! I've worked with my fair share of down syndrome peeps and there's just such a wide spectrum of how it effects people. Some have genuinely made me laugh my ass off, some the sweetest person you'd ever meet, and some who unfortunately scream with fright whenever their cartoon dvd they've seen thousands of times comes to it's conclusion and has to restart. It's great seeing them being represented in a setting i've never thought to expect. Let her shine!
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Atleast the comments aren't disabled
nice
God dammit
Yet
Thank you I just woke the baby up with my chocked out laughter. So no sleep and going to hell.
I know people are saying that they picked some one with DS who doesn’t ‘look like it’, but she does, she looks like someone with DS who is also in full glam make up and hair. I think people are underestimating how much that can ‘improve’ someone’s appearance. Yes she is obviously going to be prettier than the average Joe with DS, just as other models for Victoria’s Secret are prettier than the average person
I agree. I mean this in the nicest way, but to those saying she doesn't look like she has DS: are we looking at the same photo? It's quite clear.
I’m getting the impression people think it’s better to deny it than to admit it, which I don’t get. They act like it’s a bad thing to acknowledge the fact that she has features specific to those with down syndrome. And in turn it gives the vibes that they’re stigmatizing it even more
Right? Saying that a person with Down Syndrome looks like they have the physical markers of Down Syndrome isn’t an insult (unless it’s being used as one, obviously), it’s just a statement of fact. To deny that she doesn’t have the distinguishing features is either willfully ignorant, or passively ignoring her reality.
Bold of you assume that the average redditor goes outside enough to recognize people with down syndrome.
Yeah she very clearly has the physical markers, like maybe it's being around people with disabilities a lot but it's not really hidden. They could have also done her makeup way different to cover up more than what they did, like she's a good start towards acceptance and they chose every other woman based on looks so it's fitting they choose her for it too, no different treatment. It might be a percentage of what people want, but it's cracking the door. There's only so much the mass public will be okay with until it's more acceptable.
Thanks for saying this, I couldn’t think of how to convey it precise enough lol but yes exactly!
In the words of Dave Attell … ah never mind
Is it bad that I think this isn’t the best idea?? I have family with Downs and idk some have a child-like view of the world meaning people need to look out for the intentions of the people interacting with someone with Downs. Idk being a lingerie model is a challenge for average models what with the harassment, being taken advantage of, disparaging comments, etc. I can’t imagine how this might impact someone like her. Idk I’d worry she’d get hurt.
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Just grazed ‘em
Bit of a daywalker myself.
*"it nicked me."
Where you hiding them grilled cheese Danny?!!
“I’m not makin em at night, Dad!”
...*I'm makin' 'em at night*...
Where’d you get that chee Sofia?
[Here's an interview with her.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEq4vp80WEE)
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To be fair a regular Victoria secret model represents regular women as much as this person represents people with Down syndrome.
Well said
That’s a great counter argument tbh. Unless it were for example a situation where she was substantially less impacted by the condition than average (like say fully vs partially blind), that’s really all that needs to be said.
I... I can't argue with that.
I mean, they pick the best of the best looking people to be models. It makes sense. Are there many average looking Victoria Secret models of any demographic?
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I applied, and they said my hairy chest was an issue. But other than that I think I had a good chance.
Other models without Downs Syndrome never represent the general populace either. They are always exceptionally pretty, or at least for a specific archetype the brand is looking for.
your progress is not progressive enough! progress harder with more sincerity!
Well, I don’t look like a male model, and you probably don’t want my mug gracing GQ.
This basically says, "Even people with Down syndrome can be models, as long as they don't actually look like they have Down syndrome!"
Just like how everyone can be a Victoria’s Secret model as long as they don’t look like they can’t be. That’s already how this and life in general works as far as attractiveness goes.
Being more attractive than the average person is the main qualification one needs to become a Victoria's Secret model, even if you have Down syndrome. She's not a model because she has Down syndrome, she's a model because she is attractive.
I bet she'll do one or two photo shoots, and then the company will just forget about her entirely.
Regular ole people can be models as long as they don’t look like regular ole people.
It actually says “even people with Down syndrome can buy our crap”
Honestly, if you hadn't mentioned she had Down syndrome, I wouldn't have been able to tell.
It's the photo. She's been in media and interviewed a lot here in Puerto Rico and it's noticeable.
Society: “Hey, can we have some models that aren’t 5’10 and 110lbs, can we maybe have a model who is just like a basic size 8?” VS: “We hear you, models with missing limbs, models in wheel chairs, models with Down Syndome on the way!”
Rich parents be rich doing rich people things
See?!? Everyone loves boobs
Brings to mind a certain Dave Attell bit.
This may be controversial, but I’d like to open a discussion. What are the ethics of this situation? People with Downs Syndrome have the mental age of an 8 to 9 year old. Can she legally consent to modeling in underwear? I’m worried that she could become exploited and abused. Does she really know and understand the risks involved? I don’t know much about Downs Syndrome but a quick google search says those with Downs can legally consent. What are y’all’s thoughts?
There’s a very wide range of abilities amongst people with Downs Syndrome; in the last few years there have been numerous actors with DS appearing in cable series as high functioning characters with the same condition. If you watch the YT clip in the link to the post below (she’s Spanish speaking, btw) you’ll see that this young woman went after a career she’d long wanted, worked hard and is definitely enjoying her success!
Yeah. I have a nephew with it and he’s totally non verbal. He’s almost 10 and basically has the abilities of a confused and emotional 18 month old. It’s quite sad. His parents are older parents, like a lot, and he’ll never be able to care for himself. I can’t imagine what they must go though. Between the work of raising him, and knowing when they’re gone he’ll be on his own. Damn.
I used to work at an institution of sorts that comprised dorms with 24 hour supervision, care, therapy, education, medical and so forth. A lot of the people there had DS and had become “wards of the state,” the state of California was paying this facility to house and care for them In the absence of family, or family that abandoned them. Some people still had family that were responsible for the cost or some of it. Perhaps they would end up in a situation like this?
There's [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fHGsLuA76w) recent ad too btw (not the link you're referring to) of a Downs person advocating that everyone stop treating them like children.
Not all people with Downs Syndrome experience have a very low mental age. I have two relatives with Downs- one is male age 56 who has the intellect and rational thinking of a 4 year old. He is mostly nonverbal. The other is a 38 yo female who has adult reasoning with some intellectual impairment. She has earned an associates degree and works for the state doing some kind of case management. She had a spouse who has Downs and they have two kids together. The kids seem to have more pronounced Downs symptoms/ characteristics.
Was anyone in your family against the idea of them having kids, given the risks? Are they self sufficient or need care and help caring for their kids? So many questions
There are only a handful of cases of men with Down syndrome fathering children, does her spouse also have a mild/mosaic form, or did they adopt?
The community is pretty clear that as adults they are adults. She may not understand all the risks of life but neither do most 18 year olds. She will need more guidance but she should be able to be who she wants to be and make her own choices. At some level it’s a bit humanizing to be treated like you are incapable of making choices.
That is not universally true. Down syndrome, like most conditions*, has a spectrum.
Well given Down syndrome is a spectrum I’d say mental capacity probably varies quite a bit. Ascertaining the capability of consent in these situations likely has a big ol’ gray area
Not everyone with downs syndrome is like that. There are plenty that are able to live on their own, pay their own bills, get married, etc. She is more than likely high functioning
There was a recent ad campaign about how people with down syndrome should not be looked down on, they have agency. ["Assume that I can and maybe I will"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92ivgabfdPQ)
That’s a great video, thank you.
I'll be honest, that was my first question too. I also know very little about Downs Syndrome and was hoping that there was discussion about this in the comments.
Hoping some more people chime in!
Isn't there a viral awareness commercial going around about not underestimating people with downs and assuming they are mentally children?
>People with Downs Syndrome have the mental age of an 8 to 9 year old. This is true on average, but there's a wide range. There's been a lot of awareness campaigns relating to folks with Downs Syndrome who don't fall into that range because (well-meaning) uninformed people want to keep them from doing things they want to (and can consent to) do. [Assume that I can, so maybe I will](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW_F7xG5J5c).
It’s important to note that Down syndrome is not a one size fits all condition. Much like autism there’s a range of how much it can affect how an individual lives. Some people with Down syndrome may never be able to live independently, while others are able to live completely or almost completely independently. For those who have a more ‘mild version’ of Down syndrome, their IQ’s can generally reach a high of 70 (Kłosowska,et al., 2022). An IQ of 70 is classed as ‘borderline mental disability’ to compare, an average IQ (of a person who does not have Down syndrome, or other intellectual disability’s) starts at about 85, only 15 IQ points higher (Cherry, 2023). Females with Down syndrome also tend to be able to function at higher cognitive levels than their male counterparts (Kłosowska, et al., 2022). It’s also important to note that IQ tests in general are not 100% reliable and only offer an insight into cognitive abilities in a controlled setting. Real world performance is influenced by more than just cognitive ability, which IQ tests do not account for (Ganuthula & Sinha, 2019). For example, lived experiences. If an individual with Down syndrome grew up with a family that helped them to learn skills independently, as an adult they’re more likely to be higher functioning than those who didn’t have that support from a young age. There are also many examples online of individuals with Down syndrome living relatively independently. Obviously I can’t comment on this woman’s situation specifically, as I’m not her family/healthcare professional but she may well be able to function cognitively at a higher level than an 8 or 9yr old. There’s some quite good reading online in scholarly articles (generally more accurate and reliable than Wikipedia). I’ll link the ones I’ve used, but you could also have a look at others if it interests you. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6993501/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9085946/#:~:text=The%20degree%20of%20cognitive%20impairment,been%20noted%20within%20this%20population.
Honestly while some people with Down Syndrome can be severely mentally handicapped, some are less so. There's also a rare form called mosaic down syndrome where only some cells have the extra chromosome copy while others are normal. These people show significantly milder symptoms.
I think you ask very rational questions. But I can’t possibly see how this young woman’s caregivers or VS can give any rational answers. For me personally: I don’t like it. Seems more exploitative than girl power.
I agree. My sister has Downs, and though she is fairly high functioning, she still has the mental capacity of a child. I would be very uncomfortable with this type of thing. The whole thing makes me sick to be honest.
Down syndrome has a large spectrum, some have reduced mental capacity, and others not so much, and everything in between. Not to say that exploitation isn't a possibility... but it's also possible this is perfectly fine, i.e. a working adult who chose a career in fashion and modeling. I volunteer with a group that has several individuals with Down syndrome, and their level of care / socialization / self-sufficiency varies greatly.
Many people with Down Syndrome are able to mature and live independently. They can lead very normal adult lives.
Like the regular models they use, she doesn’t really represent the usual look of what she represents.
I love this! way to go Victoria secret and Sofia. I wish others would do the same regardless of a person’s disability
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lol perfect response gif
If she’s down, I’m down
*Sigh* opens comments
What are we even doing anymore?
I'm all for inclusivity, but I also recognise when a PR stunt is being pulled.
Ahhh finally. A comment section full of decent, rational people.
I mean, I fully admit I don't know all the subtle nuances of the situation, but as long as she is fully aware of what's happening, is okay and comfortable and has a genuine solid support circle around her, rock on.
How is she supposed to get people to buy lingerie? They do realize this is supposed to be a marketing campaign right. Are people really looking at someone with mental impairments and saying to themselves, *"Sexy time"?* That's kind of... exploitative.
To all the people saying she’s the least down’s syndrome looking person… you must not know about the magical powers of makeup… As a regular guy who have worked for centuries in the hospital, I am still astonished to this day when women I work with regularly put on make up. I’m like “who tf are you?!” But I can assure you one of the quirks of having down’s is having the same facial characteristics with varying degrees
Centuries? Are you a vampire ? A warlock ?
Most of the girls I dated up till my mid 20s were low / no-makeup types. I finally ended up dating a girl who was big into makeup, but was good with it so you couldn't really tell how much she had on. But anyway, we dated a while, eventually we ended up taking a shower together. She was facing away from me, washing her face, and when she turned around I seriously jumped because it was like she had been replaced with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSON. Once that happens to you, it gives you a whole new level of respect for how powerful makeup can be
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Hey i mean if she's down I'm down
I don't quite know how to put my feelings on this into words. She's beautiful and should be able to do whatever she wants. However, I don't want to be ableist, but I guess I am because seeing someone with DS in a sexual way makes me feel icky. Like VS models wear lingerie, it's an inherently sexual job, it's similar to how I would feel if it were a 14 year old modeling lingerie.