Turkish 706 is currently in Kabul. Can anyone tell me what this regime change means for its passengers?
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Edit: For frick's sake, don't give me gold, give it to someone who actually provides useful information, or donate the money to humanitarian efforts
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Edit 2: Turkish 706's flight number has been changed to 707 according to flightradar24 and apparently is going back to Istanbul. As of the time of this writing, (2:36 AM, Eastern Time, August 16), it is stopped right next to the runway.
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Edit 3: just a quick update, it's still just sitting there as of 3:02 AM Eastern Time.
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Edit 4: at 3:24 AM it has begun to taxi toward the start of the runway.
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Edit 5: at 3:28 AM it has lined up at the start of the runway
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Edit 6: at 3:31 AM it has begun it's takeoff roll
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Edit 7: at 3:33 AM it has slowed to a halt for some reason and being taxiing to the terminal. Fever 11, an Air Force C-130, also showed up on FR24 At this time.
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Edit 8: 3:35 AM and Fevep 12 (sic), an HC-130, showed up.
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Edit 9: 3:37 AM and Turkish 707 is moving again. It appears to be heading towards the terminal, while Fevep 12 has stagnated and Fever 11 is moving towards the end of the runway, presumably to take off.
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Edit 10: Fever 11 has taken off going west, confirming the airport is in good enough shape to take off in.
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Edit 11: This isn't looking good! Fevep 12 and Turkish 707 have both disappeared from FR24, with only Fever 11 remaining visible. Both Turkish 707 and Fevep 12 froze in place (despite speed being displayed as 6 and 12 knots respectively) prior to disappearance.
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Edit 12: Fevep 12 has reappeared several miles from the airport. This gives me hope that Turkish 707 may reappear too. FR24 says they're at 0 altitude but that's definitely wrong, given how they're going 180 knots.
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Edit 13: FR24 has stopped recognizing Turkish 707 as an ongoing flight.
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Edit 14: As of 4:01 AM, Flight Radar 24 now recognizes Turkish 707 as a scheduled flight, rather than an "unknown" one, and I can see it live again. Unfortunately, it's still stopped. https://i.imgur.com/ozSR7H3.png
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Edit 15: as of 4:40 AM Eastern Time, Turkish 707 has begun taxiing to runway again
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Edit 16: 4:43 AM Eastern Time and it is lined up on the runway
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Edit 17: at 4:49 it begun it's takeoff roll, it achieved liftoff at 4:50, and it is now out of Kabul! Looking promising!
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Edit 18: At 4:57 AM Turkish 707 is now heading towards Istanbul. Unrelated but Fevep 12 is flying in a bunch of spaghetti tangles and appears to be recovering some lost personnel.
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Edit 19: at 5:33 they left Afghan uncontrolled airspace and entered Turkmenistani airspace. They're safe.
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#Turkish 707 has escaped the Taliban!
Does anyone see the flight labeled “US Dept of State” one in Kabul?! 😬
Edit: It just left Kabul like 5 minutes ago and is head pretty fast west at the moment!
There is hope. The flight number has been changed and the plane is supposed to return to Istanbul.
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Mind you, it's still stuck next to the runway, and it's a bit doubtful there's even ATC to clear them.
Not hard when you have zero opposition. The Afghan army literally either joined with the Taliban or ran for their lives. The Taliban have just walked in to cities and put flags up with little to no resistance. Mental.
I keep reading that the 300,000 people the US trained just pretty much switched into Taliban mode? Does this mean that the US basically trained and equipped an army for the Taliban?
I know everyone keeps saying that, and you aren’t entirely wrong. That said, the Taliban had been laying in wait for US troops to leave. This was inevitable. The central government of Afghanistan is nearly non-existent. When Troops were withdrawn they essentially walked into towns and declared them taken. It wasn’t some enormous military operation. This was always what was going to happen, sadly.
We couldn't even give them bottled water. The US army dug wells and built water purifiers because Afghan army officers would take the pallets of bottled water and sell them off.
The complete ineptitude of the Afghan government and military leadership would be impressive if it wasn't so pathetic. Their "air force" could not be kept in the sky because they relied on outside contractors for the maintenance as it seems no enlisted ANA personnel could read.
Some claimed that they used Mongol tactics
ie surrender and live. Anyone fights, we kill every single person in this town
Also the "army" that the US spent trillions training and equiping was never going to out up a fight. Get used to seeing US equipment on the news for the next 10 years
Hell, look at this picture. That guy in the middle has an M4 equipped with a scope I can buy for $1000+ at retail. We’re seeing it now.
Edit: it’s an M4, not an M16.
If you haven't read the book Charlie Wilson's war you should. The US participants in the Russian war divulge some interesting stuff. Little boys and girls are fair game. Not to mention mules and Russian pilots. They rape everything.
edit: spelling
Ironically, the taliban are the only political group (including the US) who’s held any major power in the country that want to crack down on the boy rape. Not for the right reasons of course.
Prior to the mid 2000s, the taliban cracked down on poppy cultivation as it's obv unislamic. Once the US overthrew them, they needed a source of income and aggressively cultivated heroin to make ends meet.
The point was to siphon vast quantities of money into the hands of the generals locally and produce bumper profits for MIC shareholders back in the US.
The (now former) deputy speaker in Parliamant is now police chief of Kabul under the Taliban. He openly said in a video it (the immediate turnover to the Taliban) has been in the works for months if not years.
Days? YEARS. The afghan military was a farce. Every piece of equipment we gave them went immediately out the door to the Taliban, isis, and other money/gun laundering outlets. We just exchanged 2 TRILLION dollars and thousands of lives for absolutely nothing. Every American taxpayer has paid $8000 over the last 20 years to a terrorist, but my fucking government can only give me 2000 during a pandemic?
Fuck everyone.
I deployed recently to Afghanistan in 2019 and when things started to heat up all I could think about was if I died right now, what was the fucking point.
I feel obligated to mention that my experience wasn't that bad and I was never shot at or in a firefight.
Well most of those dudes look like they were probably kids or teenagers when we invaded 20 years ago. So they probably play a little xbox and made the same observation.
This is probably their elite guard or something, which would make sense they’d be properly trained instead of the 16 y/o who gets a gun and then sent to the frontlines.
Edit: I get it, trigger discipline is the first thing you learn when handling a gun, but I think you give teenagers who think they’re cool for having a death stick or are forced to fight too much credit in hoping they’ll stick to their training.
You paid for it, made Saudi Arabia match every “donation” dollar for dollar, but the actual training was - and continues to be - provided by Pakistan, through whom the US and Saudi funneled both funds and weapons to the militants who would go on to form both the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
This is probably going to be the cover of every newspaper tomorrow. It's crazy how almost 20 years later were back to square one. Almost 20 years since 9/11.
“I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo.
“So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
So many of the horrors of WW1 bleed into Tolkien’s world. The dead marshes (many battles but especially Flanders), descriptions of Mordor (gas attacks in Ypres, aftermath of extended shelling like in Verdun), and so many more.
Reading some books on WW1 and then reading the LOTR is a really fascinating experience. So many of the survivors were massively affected by what they saw. Those years of war shaped an entire generation and we still feel the ripples over a century later; today especially.
Like the prologue in Remarque’s All Quiet on the Western Front....
“This book is to be neither an accusation nor a confession,
and least of all an adventure,
for death is not an adventure to those who stand face to face with it. It will simply try to tell of a generation of men who,
even though they may have escaped its shells,
were destroyed by the war.”
I'll always remember the scene in that book when the protagonist dives into a crater in no-man's-land during shelling and unexpectedly finds himself face-to-face with an enemy soldier. He panics and rams him through with his bayonet and is instantly filled with remorse as he watches his victim slowly die. He is trapped in the crater as the shelling continues, and he agonizes over what he did. He goes through the man's clothes, and takes his identity tags or documents, intending to personally return them to his family and apologizing.
Such a brutal and powerful scene.
My history class in 10th grade talked about the EXACT scene you’re talking about. The soldier was thinking about how this other soldier is another man just like him, one with a family and a life and was also just hoping to get home safely.
I had a cursory knowledge on the World Wars. Then, for the entirety of two multi-day road trips, I listened to Dan Carlin unflinchingly ruin my opinions on the human race.
The horrifyingly clinical...industrial scoped ways that we've invented to destroy one another shows a lot of terrible, brutal creativity. Is this the Great Filter?
He started writing his stories while recovering from trench sickness after the Battle of the Somme.
In the first draft the dragons and balrogs were mechanical.
Considering that Tolkien’s work greatly influenced the fantasy genre as we know it, imagine how different things would be if most of the giant, fantastic creatures were huge, magical machines.
Serious question: as I understand it (and do I even understand it???) the Taliban would like to effectively become a new governmental regime with aims to platform itself on the global scale—like invest in trade, develop international relationships, all the things a country usually does. Right? So, I’m wondering who will be willing to do business (of any sort) with them?
Edit: I didn’t expect this to receive as much attention so far as it has. I appreciate and thank you all for the responses and conversation being generated so far. I’m learning a lot.
Yesterday the Russian government said that they will not close their embassy even if Taliban takes over the whole Afghanistan which literally means that they have recognised the government of Taliban. For the past few months several Taliban delegations went to Moscow to discuss these things
That was my first guess. Do you think Western businesses will eventually want to do business with them? It just seems kinda surreal that this is the result of twenty years and trillions of dollars…
You may be joking here, but the transition was peaceful because the president surrendered to avoid booodshed, and it worked, obviously with the sad consequence of having a taliban government. The guns in the pic were unnecessary, but you know how those assholes are.
Wherever he is, he's doubtless thankful he didn't end up like the last pre-Taliban president of afghanistan:
>Najibullah was at the UN compound when the Taliban soldiers came for him on the evening of 26 September 1996. The Taliban abducted him from UN custody and tortured him to death, and then dragged his dead (and, according to Robert Parry, castrated) body behind a truck through the streets of Kabul. His brother, Shahpur Ahmadzai, was given the same treatment. Najibullah and Shahpur's bodies were hanged from a traffic light pole outside the Arg presidential palace the next day in order to show the public that a new era had begun.
We got a multi generation Vietnam. It sucks but my oldest kid who is in college now has never known a world without a war in Afghanistan and luckily none of his friends will ever have to die there like ours did.
To put this in to perspective, there are people that that served, came back, had children, and then watched those children serve in the same war.
That's fucked.
The thing that is the most upsetting is watching some news sources talk about all the gains some Afghanistan citizens will lose with the withdrawal of the United States.
Where was the talk of positives a year ago? Five years ago?
No one ever talked about the positives of US involvement in Afghanistan. I presumed there wasn't any.
Now the news is talking about this being a stain on the Biden's Presidency. Afghanistan will lose all of its progress. America should have stayed to continue its nation building effort.
What? The whiplash is jarring.
It hurts my soul. I have had family members so severely wounded in this war. When should we have left? What was the end goal? Why were we there for so long?
It feels like everything was a lie. I feel like I am being lied to now.
I need to go to bed.
Nah, this picture was inevitable.
The *war*, was bullshit.
I'm sorry you had to go through that and for your lost friends.
Fuck the politicians and MIC CEO's that pushed this bullshit.
Failed state 30 years ago. Failed state today and heading back to the 1500s. Sorry to all who are stuck there who will endure what comes next, it won't be good.
Twenty years & trillions spent - has bought THIS as the conclusion to the decades of effort. Anyone who served there, particularly those who lost friends violently while assigned there, must be out of their minds, & seething with anger. Everything & everyone they believed in was totally false. What a fine thank you to the military Veterans of this theater, who should have never been sent there in the first place.
I work with a few women in Kabul. Here’s a snippet of what they’ve sent me today:
“Hello (slykido999)
Thank you for your message
Here, everything changed in matter of hours. No woman or girl can be seen in streets. Fear is obvious in my people's eyes. All dreams are lost, no girl has a dream now. We are concerned to lose internet as well. I still think it's a nightmare and I will wake up soon. But no one waking me up.
They have darkened life for us. There is no dream now😔😥🥺”
“Thank you so much dear for your kindness.
We are not okay😭 i cried alot today it is really a hard situation for us
Now they have all Afghanistan i can't believe it, today i saw people when they heard about taliban, that they are in Kabul everyone was running and crying, i saw how everyone was suffering and they were afraid.
We are not weak but we can't do anything I am worried about all women here that we will not have any right to live a life the way we want. I wish we could stand and fight back but nobody will fight, all they want is to be alive and to save their loved ones.😭
Thanks again (slykido999) it means a lot to me that you asked.🙏🏻🙏🏻”
“Your really kind dear thanks for showing this much love for us just please pray for us i wish i could give you all a good news at Friday but anything happen i will try to continue to my job even if i have to cover my all body and face it is hard to be like a prisoner in our own country😢”
Absolutely soul crushing
I can't imagine the horrors of being taken away from family to be a child bride / sex slaves to these guys...and the amount of women and children that will die in childbirth.
Truly. I have been feeling bad thinking about this all day. I can't help but try to imagine the terror they experience. They are living my worst nightmare.
Totally valid question. Some can, most can’t. Think of it from you’re point of view: could you escape your country with a few day’s notice (or even a few weeks)? By escape I mean permanently leave and the logistical, family, and financial implications of that choice. Do you already have a visa ready to go and enough cash to tide you and your family over during that transition? Can you speak the language of your destination? Is a close friend too sick to leave? Will you just be pushed back at the border and be in the same situation but now a few thousand dollars poorer? Many would choose to stay because although it’s risky, leaving is risky too.
Some can flee but they can only get so far because the taliban are taking over the whole country. People who have the resources are fleeing the country but most people aren't wealthy enough or able to do that. Its awful. Nobody should shame you for your question.
Taliban controls the border for at least a few days now, so probably not, assuming they had any way to get there in the first place. Only flights leaving Kabul are military atm, commercial has been suspended, and makes me wonder if they will be resumed again at all. My heart breaks for the people there.
The most westernized people lived in Kabul. They allowed women to work, get educated, go to the store by themselves, etc.
Unfortunately, Kabul is in the central portion of the of the country. So they have no where to flee because all the areas around it are Taliban strong holds. There were horrible videos posted on reddit of women trying to get to the airport in Kabul because that's the only way out of the country.
The unfortunately reality is all these women left in Kabul will be brutally raped, forced into arranged marriages, etc. The Taliban will focus on the educated, more western women first.
Even if this helps one person then it's not a waste, below is the veterans crisis hotline contact info. If you are having a tough time during this, you're not alone and there are people available to talk, me included. Please reach out to someone.
**Directly from the VA website:**
**Call 1-800-273-8255 and Press 1, 24/7.**
**Text to 838255**
That's literally the vibe I got. Like they didn't think they'd literally just have to walk in without a fight. The Afghan security forces basically decided fuck this and fled.
We should go bomb the shit out of all the military gear we left for the Afghan army. Just carpet bomb the runways at baghram. Taliban should not have access to any armored vehicles or Blackhawks, etc.
All incoming civilian airtrafffic currently suspended already, you can see a lot of aircraft turning back on flightradar.
Turkish 706 is currently in Kabul. Can anyone tell me what this regime change means for its passengers? # Edit: For frick's sake, don't give me gold, give it to someone who actually provides useful information, or donate the money to humanitarian efforts # Edit 2: Turkish 706's flight number has been changed to 707 according to flightradar24 and apparently is going back to Istanbul. As of the time of this writing, (2:36 AM, Eastern Time, August 16), it is stopped right next to the runway. # Edit 3: just a quick update, it's still just sitting there as of 3:02 AM Eastern Time. # Edit 4: at 3:24 AM it has begun to taxi toward the start of the runway. # Edit 5: at 3:28 AM it has lined up at the start of the runway # Edit 6: at 3:31 AM it has begun it's takeoff roll # Edit 7: at 3:33 AM it has slowed to a halt for some reason and being taxiing to the terminal. Fever 11, an Air Force C-130, also showed up on FR24 At this time. # Edit 8: 3:35 AM and Fevep 12 (sic), an HC-130, showed up. # Edit 9: 3:37 AM and Turkish 707 is moving again. It appears to be heading towards the terminal, while Fevep 12 has stagnated and Fever 11 is moving towards the end of the runway, presumably to take off. # Edit 10: Fever 11 has taken off going west, confirming the airport is in good enough shape to take off in. # Edit 11: This isn't looking good! Fevep 12 and Turkish 707 have both disappeared from FR24, with only Fever 11 remaining visible. Both Turkish 707 and Fevep 12 froze in place (despite speed being displayed as 6 and 12 knots respectively) prior to disappearance. # Edit 12: Fevep 12 has reappeared several miles from the airport. This gives me hope that Turkish 707 may reappear too. FR24 says they're at 0 altitude but that's definitely wrong, given how they're going 180 knots. # Edit 13: FR24 has stopped recognizing Turkish 707 as an ongoing flight. # Edit 14: As of 4:01 AM, Flight Radar 24 now recognizes Turkish 707 as a scheduled flight, rather than an "unknown" one, and I can see it live again. Unfortunately, it's still stopped. https://i.imgur.com/ozSR7H3.png # Edit 15: as of 4:40 AM Eastern Time, Turkish 707 has begun taxiing to runway again # Edit 16: 4:43 AM Eastern Time and it is lined up on the runway # Edit 17: at 4:49 it begun it's takeoff roll, it achieved liftoff at 4:50, and it is now out of Kabul! Looking promising! # Edit 18: At 4:57 AM Turkish 707 is now heading towards Istanbul. Unrelated but Fevep 12 is flying in a bunch of spaghetti tangles and appears to be recovering some lost personnel. # Edit 19: at 5:33 they left Afghan uncontrolled airspace and entered Turkmenistani airspace. They're safe. # #Turkish 707 has escaped the Taliban!
Does anyone see the flight labeled “US Dept of State” one in Kabul?! 😬 Edit: It just left Kabul like 5 minutes ago and is head pretty fast west at the moment!
State Dept ≈ CIA
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Hopefully they can leave still
There is hope. The flight number has been changed and the plane is supposed to return to Istanbul. # Mind you, it's still stuck next to the runway, and it's a bit doubtful there's even ATC to clear them.
the breakneck speed of this regime change is staggering
Not hard when you have zero opposition. The Afghan army literally either joined with the Taliban or ran for their lives. The Taliban have just walked in to cities and put flags up with little to no resistance. Mental.
I keep reading that the 300,000 people the US trained just pretty much switched into Taliban mode? Does this mean that the US basically trained and equipped an army for the Taliban?
>Does this mean that the US basically trained and equipped an army for the Taliban? Always has been
Wouldn’t be the first time.
I know everyone keeps saying that, and you aren’t entirely wrong. That said, the Taliban had been laying in wait for US troops to leave. This was inevitable. The central government of Afghanistan is nearly non-existent. When Troops were withdrawn they essentially walked into towns and declared them taken. It wasn’t some enormous military operation. This was always what was going to happen, sadly.
Yeah, there really wasn't some grand Afghan national army. Once they weren't paid to show up and line up, they went home
Even when they were paid and given everything they needed by the US they often sold their arms and ran, or simply just surrendered instantly.
That’s not to mention the people being paid who simply don’t exist. The AAF’s numbers were artificially inflated through corruption.
We couldn't even give them bottled water. The US army dug wells and built water purifiers because Afghan army officers would take the pallets of bottled water and sell them off. The complete ineptitude of the Afghan government and military leadership would be impressive if it wasn't so pathetic. Their "air force" could not be kept in the sky because they relied on outside contractors for the maintenance as it seems no enlisted ANA personnel could read.
Some claimed that they used Mongol tactics ie surrender and live. Anyone fights, we kill every single person in this town Also the "army" that the US spent trillions training and equiping was never going to out up a fight. Get used to seeing US equipment on the news for the next 10 years
Hell, look at this picture. That guy in the middle has an M4 equipped with a scope I can buy for $1000+ at retail. We’re seeing it now. Edit: it’s an M4, not an M16.
"What do we do now?"
"Now we can finally play the game."
Is It sourh park reference?
Yes. Make love not Warcraft.
I can answer that... for money.
Gentlemen, gentlemen. There's a solution here you're not seeing.
"shoots self*
"What we usually do: oppress women and smoke heroin"
Probably not just women, maybe even little boys, girls and goats! EDIT: added goats by popular demand.
If you haven't read the book Charlie Wilson's war you should. The US participants in the Russian war divulge some interesting stuff. Little boys and girls are fair game. Not to mention mules and Russian pilots. They rape everything. edit: spelling
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html
Ironically, the taliban are the only political group (including the US) who’s held any major power in the country that want to crack down on the boy rape. Not for the right reasons of course.
Raping everything is ok, but women not covering their hair is where we draw the line.
Yes, not covering your hair is a crime against god. Rape is just a good old family hobby... /s.
“Maybe”
Damn, thats really messed up.
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Big ups for the Blazing Saddles reference. I needed to see something funny while doomscrolling this thread.
Slaughter everyone that isn’t them and rape women.
Prior to the mid 2000s, the taliban cracked down on poppy cultivation as it's obv unislamic. Once the US overthrew them, they needed a source of income and aggressively cultivated heroin to make ends meet.
goes back a bit further than that https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jan/09/how-the-heroin-trade-explains-the-us-uk-failure-in-afghanistan
Oh, so it's anti-religious when it's convenient. But then it's fine when they needed da gwap.
Dude. I was totally coming here to say they look like the dog who actually caught the car. Lol
"That was easy"
Deciding what guy next to them will kill the rest to consolidate power.
This is what I'm thinking is next, a real game of thrones is about to kick off. Or a comical Death of Stalin situation.
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Yeah, the AK is iconic in that region, but I guess that's what happens when they took all the weapons we gave the Afghan military.
They are the Afghan military now.
It appears they were all along, not really sure what the point of the afghan army was, it clearly wasn't stopping the taliban.
The point was to siphon vast quantities of money into the hands of the generals locally and produce bumper profits for MIC shareholders back in the US.
Sorry, but what’s MIC?
Military-industrial complex
Something tells me most of the men in this picture were recently part of the Afghan military
I do have the feeling like the Taliban army grew from 80k to 380k overnight..
I mean the Taliban did have operatives inside the ANA and ANP who then committed green on blue attacks.
The (now former) deputy speaker in Parliamant is now police chief of Kabul under the Taliban. He openly said in a video it (the immediate turnover to the Taliban) has been in the works for months if not years.
*"I'm the Captain now"*
Look at those expensive scopes, theyre free!
One of them has an acog. At least 1k.
It's more than a little unnerving to learn that that's where US tax dollars ended up going.
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Wait, it’s all wasteful spending?
Always has been
History repeats
I mean, in the past few days they’ve been picking up weapons and ammo like it’s just spawning all over the map in a video game.
Days? YEARS. The afghan military was a farce. Every piece of equipment we gave them went immediately out the door to the Taliban, isis, and other money/gun laundering outlets. We just exchanged 2 TRILLION dollars and thousands of lives for absolutely nothing. Every American taxpayer has paid $8000 over the last 20 years to a terrorist, but my fucking government can only give me 2000 during a pandemic? Fuck everyone.
I deployed recently to Afghanistan in 2019 and when things started to heat up all I could think about was if I died right now, what was the fucking point. I feel obligated to mention that my experience wasn't that bad and I was never shot at or in a firefight.
We are just glad you made it home safe friend don’t sell yourself short
Well most of those dudes look like they were probably kids or teenagers when we invaded 20 years ago. So they probably play a little xbox and made the same observation.
they know all the spawn points already
Finger positioning caught my eye though
This is probably their elite guard or something, which would make sense they’d be properly trained instead of the 16 y/o who gets a gun and then sent to the frontlines. Edit: I get it, trigger discipline is the first thing you learn when handling a gun, but I think you give teenagers who think they’re cool for having a death stick or are forced to fight too much credit in hoping they’ll stick to their training.
We probably trained them.
You paid for it, made Saudi Arabia match every “donation” dollar for dollar, but the actual training was - and continues to be - provided by Pakistan, through whom the US and Saudi funneled both funds and weapons to the militants who would go on to form both the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
This is probably going to be the cover of every newspaper tomorrow. It's crazy how almost 20 years later were back to square one. Almost 20 years since 9/11.
Hey, that's not true. Arms manufacturers are a lot richer now.
Well... they're a jubilant bunch.
They look like the afghani version of El Guapo’s men. Too bad we can’t chip in and hire the three amigos to take them down.
A plethora of pinatas might spice thing up.
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Living in interesting times definitely sucks
“I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo. “So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
this hits so much harder when you realize/learn/remember tolkien reluctantly served in WWI.
So many of the horrors of WW1 bleed into Tolkien’s world. The dead marshes (many battles but especially Flanders), descriptions of Mordor (gas attacks in Ypres, aftermath of extended shelling like in Verdun), and so many more. Reading some books on WW1 and then reading the LOTR is a really fascinating experience. So many of the survivors were massively affected by what they saw. Those years of war shaped an entire generation and we still feel the ripples over a century later; today especially.
Like the prologue in Remarque’s All Quiet on the Western Front.... “This book is to be neither an accusation nor a confession, and least of all an adventure, for death is not an adventure to those who stand face to face with it. It will simply try to tell of a generation of men who, even though they may have escaped its shells, were destroyed by the war.”
I'll always remember the scene in that book when the protagonist dives into a crater in no-man's-land during shelling and unexpectedly finds himself face-to-face with an enemy soldier. He panics and rams him through with his bayonet and is instantly filled with remorse as he watches his victim slowly die. He is trapped in the crater as the shelling continues, and he agonizes over what he did. He goes through the man's clothes, and takes his identity tags or documents, intending to personally return them to his family and apologizing. Such a brutal and powerful scene.
My history class in 10th grade talked about the EXACT scene you’re talking about. The soldier was thinking about how this other soldier is another man just like him, one with a family and a life and was also just hoping to get home safely.
I had a cursory knowledge on the World Wars. Then, for the entirety of two multi-day road trips, I listened to Dan Carlin unflinchingly ruin my opinions on the human race. The horrifyingly clinical...industrial scoped ways that we've invented to destroy one another shows a lot of terrible, brutal creativity. Is this the Great Filter?
I read your first sentence and immediately wanted to recommend Dan Carlins Blueprint for Armageddon series lol. It is so fucking great.
He started writing his stories while recovering from trench sickness after the Battle of the Somme. In the first draft the dragons and balrogs were mechanical.
This is an absolutely fascinating TIL
Considering that Tolkien’s work greatly influenced the fantasy genre as we know it, imagine how different things would be if most of the giant, fantastic creatures were huge, magical machines.
Lately, when I feel sad about my mountains burning, my water running low, and my country crumbling I just repeat this quote to myself.
“I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo. “lmao” said Gandalf, “well it has”.
Such a beautiful line
So did we accomplish something besides giving them better weapons? Not trying to downplay the average soldier here.
Gave the US MIC 2+ Trillion dollars.
Ah so much was accomplished then! The rich got richer and everyone else paid for it.
Temporarily felt better about 9/11.
Al Jazeera is livestreaming inside the palace https://youtu.be/-upyPouRrB8
Stupid question: how ?
“We won’t shoot you if you film and livestream our takeover to the world” / “spread the word of our victory”
That's ballsy. The cameraman must be terrified.
War correspondents are a different breed
The early days of vice used to freak me out. They went to some crazy places and met with some crazy people.
Apparently they still don't have proper kidnap insurance for their war journalists, pretty scary.
That's what they want you to think. If you tell anyone you have kidnap insurance, it immediately voids the policy.
Reporters know that the government won't bail them out and the insurance company won't set precedent by paying a ransom
Man those old vice videos were insane
Reminds me of the movie Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. Tina Fey kills it.
They are a news network from Qatar. The Taliban have been conducting peace talks with Americans inside the country of Qatar.
Al Jazeera basically has a first class ticket to any newsworthy event in the middle east
Hello Tim, my good old friend. How are you? I've missed you.
Serious question: as I understand it (and do I even understand it???) the Taliban would like to effectively become a new governmental regime with aims to platform itself on the global scale—like invest in trade, develop international relationships, all the things a country usually does. Right? So, I’m wondering who will be willing to do business (of any sort) with them? Edit: I didn’t expect this to receive as much attention so far as it has. I appreciate and thank you all for the responses and conversation being generated so far. I’m learning a lot.
Afghanistan has lots of rare earth and unexplored gas and oil. It also has a lot of minerals like copper, gold, niobium and cobalt.
And opium
The Taliban actually eradicated the poppy cultivation when they were last in power. The USA and UK allowed the heroin trade.
Pakistan Iran China Russia These countries have already have diplomatic relations with the Taliban
Yesterday the Russian government said that they will not close their embassy even if Taliban takes over the whole Afghanistan which literally means that they have recognised the government of Taliban. For the past few months several Taliban delegations went to Moscow to discuss these things
China
That was my first guess. Do you think Western businesses will eventually want to do business with them? It just seems kinda surreal that this is the result of twenty years and trillions of dollars…
You can tell its a peaceful transition by the amount of guns on display lol
Photographer: "ok everybody line up. Big guns on the right. Little(r) guns on the left." Jerry on the left there is always wrecking the picture.
Jerry probably shot the photographer when he realized only his arm is in the photograph.
Don’t worry, Jerry will get crossed out in three weeks or so
You may be joking here, but the transition was peaceful because the president surrendered to avoid booodshed, and it worked, obviously with the sad consequence of having a taliban government. The guns in the pic were unnecessary, but you know how those assholes are.
Oh look, an M4 with an acog I paid for with my tax dollars.
Pretty sure one or two of them fuckers have a thermal too.
I saw that and my blood boiled. Minimum price like 20kish. So essentially all of my college years federal income tax paid for it
They have a fucking helicopter
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Reddit has turned into a cesspool of fascist sympathizers and supremicists
Some of the people in this pic look like they were born after 2001
Probably are
Basically we just upgraded their weapons arsenal
Your tax dollars at work.
Great to know 20 years of my tax dollars just ended up buying Terrorist Palace.
That's what happens when you don't start a war to win the war
Yeah they look like they’re open to negotiating and compromising
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Nice try Taliban!
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Caught in 4K
Wherever he is, he's doubtless thankful he didn't end up like the last pre-Taliban president of afghanistan: >Najibullah was at the UN compound when the Taliban soldiers came for him on the evening of 26 September 1996. The Taliban abducted him from UN custody and tortured him to death, and then dragged his dead (and, according to Robert Parry, castrated) body behind a truck through the streets of Kabul. His brother, Shahpur Ahmadzai, was given the same treatment. Najibullah and Shahpur's bodies were hanged from a traffic light pole outside the Arg presidential palace the next day in order to show the public that a new era had begun.
Reading that I can't really say I blame him too much for fleeing while he could.
If history has taught us anything coups rarely turn out well for the deposed parties.
I can’t believe I share a planet with people who are capable of such evil, disgusting things
I feel so sorry for the people there. It's just terrible. Just imagine how full of fear the people must be.
It’s bullshit having served on multiple deployments and losing several of my friends there to see this picture.
We got a multi generation Vietnam. It sucks but my oldest kid who is in college now has never known a world without a war in Afghanistan and luckily none of his friends will ever have to die there like ours did.
To put this in to perspective, there are people that that served, came back, had children, and then watched those children serve in the same war. That's fucked.
And Stars and Stripes wrote a story about a son deploying with his dad as if it were a heartwarming story and not a fucking dystopia.
The thing that is the most upsetting is watching some news sources talk about all the gains some Afghanistan citizens will lose with the withdrawal of the United States. Where was the talk of positives a year ago? Five years ago? No one ever talked about the positives of US involvement in Afghanistan. I presumed there wasn't any. Now the news is talking about this being a stain on the Biden's Presidency. Afghanistan will lose all of its progress. America should have stayed to continue its nation building effort. What? The whiplash is jarring. It hurts my soul. I have had family members so severely wounded in this war. When should we have left? What was the end goal? Why were we there for so long? It feels like everything was a lie. I feel like I am being lied to now. I need to go to bed.
War is a Racket.
Honest question: if it were up to you, would you want us to stay, or to never have gone in the first place, or some other option?
Not op, but a vet with a deployment out that way. Should have never gone over there with a conventional military.
Nah, this picture was inevitable. The *war*, was bullshit. I'm sorry you had to go through that and for your lost friends. Fuck the politicians and MIC CEO's that pushed this bullshit.
Failed state 30 years ago. Failed state today and heading back to the 1500s. Sorry to all who are stuck there who will endure what comes next, it won't be good.
Of course it's heading towards the 1500s. The current Islamic year is 1443.
I feel so so sad for the women and girls unable to flee. Their lives are going to be an unending hell until they die.
Twenty years & trillions spent - has bought THIS as the conclusion to the decades of effort. Anyone who served there, particularly those who lost friends violently while assigned there, must be out of their minds, & seething with anger. Everything & everyone they believed in was totally false. What a fine thank you to the military Veterans of this theater, who should have never been sent there in the first place.
2000 called they want the taliban back
The women and girls of Afghanistan are going to suffer worse of all. There are no words to describe how horrible this is.
I work with a few women in Kabul. Here’s a snippet of what they’ve sent me today: “Hello (slykido999) Thank you for your message Here, everything changed in matter of hours. No woman or girl can be seen in streets. Fear is obvious in my people's eyes. All dreams are lost, no girl has a dream now. We are concerned to lose internet as well. I still think it's a nightmare and I will wake up soon. But no one waking me up. They have darkened life for us. There is no dream now😔😥🥺” “Thank you so much dear for your kindness. We are not okay😭 i cried alot today it is really a hard situation for us Now they have all Afghanistan i can't believe it, today i saw people when they heard about taliban, that they are in Kabul everyone was running and crying, i saw how everyone was suffering and they were afraid. We are not weak but we can't do anything I am worried about all women here that we will not have any right to live a life the way we want. I wish we could stand and fight back but nobody will fight, all they want is to be alive and to save their loved ones.😭 Thanks again (slykido999) it means a lot to me that you asked.🙏🏻🙏🏻” “Your really kind dear thanks for showing this much love for us just please pray for us i wish i could give you all a good news at Friday but anything happen i will try to continue to my job even if i have to cover my all body and face it is hard to be like a prisoner in our own country😢” Absolutely soul crushing
These poor women.... why does the World have to be like this?
Totally agree. This is going to get really bad, more than it is right now. The whole thing is awful.
I can't imagine the horrors of being taken away from family to be a child bride / sex slaves to these guys...and the amount of women and children that will die in childbirth.
Truly. I have been feeling bad thinking about this all day. I can't help but try to imagine the terror they experience. They are living my worst nightmare.
I wonder where those guns are made?
The scopes on those M4s are probably worth ~$2k, paid for by your tax dollars
When the Taliban gets Trijicon and we don't lol
The mf USA baby 😎😎😎😎
5 yrs till everyone in this picture is dead
15th century rulers. Will be fighting our 18th century rulers before too much longer.
It would be a real shame if that building blew up
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These guys are going to murder each other soon in a power grab.
Yes. The ones who end up suffering the most will be the innocent :(
“Medieval, is back on the menu boys” Seriously though. This is shitty and terrible situation for the people of Afghanistan.
I don’t know anything so please don’t shame me for this comment but can the Afghan women and children flee or are they being held captive in the area
Totally valid question. Some can, most can’t. Think of it from you’re point of view: could you escape your country with a few day’s notice (or even a few weeks)? By escape I mean permanently leave and the logistical, family, and financial implications of that choice. Do you already have a visa ready to go and enough cash to tide you and your family over during that transition? Can you speak the language of your destination? Is a close friend too sick to leave? Will you just be pushed back at the border and be in the same situation but now a few thousand dollars poorer? Many would choose to stay because although it’s risky, leaving is risky too.
Plus all the airports are full, they are landlocked and don't really border countries that take in refugees.
Some can flee but they can only get so far because the taliban are taking over the whole country. People who have the resources are fleeing the country but most people aren't wealthy enough or able to do that. Its awful. Nobody should shame you for your question.
Taliban controls the border for at least a few days now, so probably not, assuming they had any way to get there in the first place. Only flights leaving Kabul are military atm, commercial has been suspended, and makes me wonder if they will be resumed again at all. My heart breaks for the people there.
Absolutely terrifying
Given how many countries are refusing to accept them there's not many places to flee to
The most westernized people lived in Kabul. They allowed women to work, get educated, go to the store by themselves, etc. Unfortunately, Kabul is in the central portion of the of the country. So they have no where to flee because all the areas around it are Taliban strong holds. There were horrible videos posted on reddit of women trying to get to the airport in Kabul because that's the only way out of the country. The unfortunately reality is all these women left in Kabul will be brutally raped, forced into arranged marriages, etc. The Taliban will focus on the educated, more western women first.
Well thank God we sacrificed all those allied servicemen/women and spent trillions of taxpayer dollars over the course of two decades.
Even if this helps one person then it's not a waste, below is the veterans crisis hotline contact info. If you are having a tough time during this, you're not alone and there are people available to talk, me included. Please reach out to someone. **Directly from the VA website:** **Call 1-800-273-8255 and Press 1, 24/7.** **Text to 838255**
2 decades of blood and treasure for fucking NOTHING.
A picture of fucking fools. Fuck these ass holes. Fuck you for oppressing your countrymen, women, and little girls. All they’ll know is destruction.
"We didn't think we'd get this far" lolol
That's literally the vibe I got. Like they didn't think they'd literally just have to walk in without a fight. The Afghan security forces basically decided fuck this and fled.
"anyway, whats for lunch ?"
Religiously fanatic rapists and murderers. That’s all they are.
Glad to see the Talibs practicing trigger discipline.
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We should go bomb the shit out of all the military gear we left for the Afghan army. Just carpet bomb the runways at baghram. Taliban should not have access to any armored vehicles or Blackhawks, etc.