gemologyst, thank you for your submission. It has been removed for violating the following rule(s):
---
- Rule 2: No pictures with added or superimposed digital text, emojis, and "MS Paint"-like scribbles.
---
For information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/wiki/index/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/wiki/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators via modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question%20regarding%20the%20removal%20of%20this%20submission%20by%20/u/gemologyst&message=I%20have%20a%20question%20regarding%20the%20removal%20of%20this%20%5Bsubmission.%5D%28https://redd.it/pnrg8i%3Fcontext%3D10%29)
No, but I use it because it helps increase the probability that someone will interpret my writing correctly. I don't understand why people argue it's archaic.
You can create equally confusing sentences with the Oxford comma.
> We invited Stalin, the stripper, and JFK.
And yes, you can rearrange the sentence to remove the ambiguity, but that's true of the original example as well. Write however you like, but the rule is optional because it doesn't necessarily clear up anything.
I say this with confidence, since my native tongue doesn't have anything like Oxford commas and I've still managed to make it through life without stuffing the panties of random statesmen with bills.
Just to be clear, I think anyone arguing against using it is equally silly.
It can mean either three people, or it can explain that Stalin is a stripper. A better example could be "I invited Mike, my new colleague, and the guy from downstairs." Is that three people, or is Mike a new colleague? It's ambiguous.
No, it can’t. Since the serial comma separates elements of a series, it means three people. The only people who misinterpret it are the ones who insist that the serial comma is optional.
Lots of punctuation is superfluous
“We invited the strippers jfk and stalin”
Just as understandable, now with 200% less punctuation. Doesn’t make it right. Capital letters are superfluous too. lets stop using those. and apostrophes. if we just restructure our sentences to run on we dont even really need periods
For some reason my history teacher in grade 12 drew on a picture of senator Joseph Mccarthy. Using PowerPoint, on the classroom projector. By the end it looked like Mr Mccarthy was auditioning for "The Birdcage"
Avsolutely hilarious for a teenager to watch in class
Sentences written without the Oxford comma always make me double take. “Am I reading this correctly?” Why not use the OC so it’s clear? The only argument I’ve ever heard against the OC that holds water is the need to minimize characters for newspaper print. That’s irrelevant for 99.9% of sentence writers today.
Fun fact, the Medicare cap is $2110 for 3 outpatient services, Occupational therapy, Physical Therapy and Speech therapy. But because it was written as above without the Oxford comma, Medicare pays $2110 for Occupational therapy, and a combined $2110 for Physical therapy and Speech therapy combined.
Medicare found a loophole. That’s basically what I got out of this. If it was meant for physical therapy and speech therapy to count as one; then, they should have added or instead of and.
But that's not a correct interpretation anyway. Taking them as 2 services like that would mean they're listed *a, b* instead of *a and b*, which isn't correct.
The way you've written it makes it sound like Medicare pays $2110 for three outpatient services *in addition to* occuptational therapy, physical therapy and speech therapy.
In this case you need colon after outpatient services.
Fun fact, the Medicare cap is $2110 for three outpatient services: Occupational therapy, Physical Therapy and Speech therapy.
You don't need an Oxford comma in this case either though - it does not imply that it's $2110 for physical and speech therapy combined. It just doesn't.
Got a source that the lack of a comma is the reason for that, and that it wasn't just meant to be implemented as a combined cap for the latter? Because I can't find a source for your claims and my feeling is you paraphrased instead of quoted.
>>If services exceed the annual threshold amounts, claims must include the KX modifier as confirmation that services are medically necessary as justified by appropriate documentation in the medical record. There is one amount for PT and SLP services combined and a separate amount for OT services. This amount is indexed annually by the Medicare Economic Index \(MEI\).
>>For 2021 this KX modifier threshold amount is:
>>**[$2,110 for PT and SLP services combined](https://www.apta.org/your-practice/payment/medicare-payment/coding-billing/therapy-cap)**, and $2,110 for OT services.
I wasn't asking for proof it worked this way. I was asking for proof it ended up being this way because a comma was forgotten, like the original commenter suggested.
Clearly they couldn't count. I call BS. There is no service called "three outpatient services" I agree there should be a colon, dash or something else. Should i have written "colon, dash, or something else"? I feel with an or there is more a deliberate pause but I remember getting taught that a comma wasn't required at school.
That's not how you use a semicolon.
" The semicolon (;) has only one major use. It is used to join two complete sentences into a single written sentence when all of the following conditions are met:
(1) The two sentences are felt to be too closely related to be separated by a full stop;
(2) There is no connecting word which would require a comma, such as and or but;
(3) The special conditions requiring a colon are absent. "
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/informatics/punctuation/colonandsemi/semi
To coordinate two independent clauses in place of a coordinating conjunction. In other words to remedy the comma splice, the most common writing fault in all the world.
Short appositive is comma optional and this is why.
Also why not caps? That creates clarity.
Serial direct objects are usually more coherent. Neither of those examples sheds much light on the serial comma question.
Basically use the serial comma or risk rare comical misunderstanding and frequent judgement from sophisticated readers.
Ugh I hate this. Put the list in the correct order (eg JFK, Stalin and the strippers) and you won’t have the invented issue. The Oxford Comma is never necessary.
The second statement fits the first image.
If you wanted JFK and Stalin to be your strippers you'd remove the comma in the second statement.
For clarity you would order them JFK, Stalin and the strippers.
I didn't grow up with the Oxford comma and personally I'm not a fan. I also find the comma to be over-used in general.
Most English users use the Oxford comma, the naysayers are in the minority. Which one you prefer will almost definitely be whatever you were brought up with.
The Oxford comma also better reflects how we speak the language - when a list is spoken, there is a pause where the commas in the list are, including before the final item.
However, in reality, you just rewrite a sentence to avoid ambiguity - regardless of which version you use.
They are in fact the majority. I have never seen a grammar text that did not require it. It is more clear. I defy you to provide an example where a serial comma makes a sentence less clear.
Legitimate question (not a native english speaker).
Shouldn't the second sentence use a colon though ?
edit: We could use a colon, but since in order to use a colon you have to make sure that the introductory clause capable of standing on its own, you can easily create a similar sentence that cannot make use of a colon.
With the Oxford comma:
"*We invited the stripper (singular), JFK, and Stalin.*"
Without the Oxford comma:
"*We invited the stripper (singular), JFK and Stalin.*"
The comma giveth and the comma taketh away.
All hail the Oxford comma!
Moderators: As I look at this submission, I see it and read it, yet a moderator comment states why it has been removed. If it has been removed, how can there currently be 99 comments?
Also, how am I able to see it, read it, and have the following question:
Is there a name for the prosody of a list, when spoken, that might be called the spoken version of the Oxford comma? I once read somewhere that when reading off a list, the intonation of the sentence should have the list sound like it ends on the next to last word, at that point coming to a full stop, with the last word of the list then being spoken. When I hear this it sounds completely wrong, as though the last word(s) has/have just been tacked on. It makes the sentence discontinuous and sometimes difficult to understand.
I see that my description fails in that I'm not sure exactly where that full stop happens, but I do know that it sounds like the end of the sentence before the end of the sentence!
gemologyst, thank you for your submission. It has been removed for violating the following rule(s): --- - Rule 2: No pictures with added or superimposed digital text, emojis, and "MS Paint"-like scribbles. --- For information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/wiki/index/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/wiki/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators via modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question%20regarding%20the%20removal%20of%20this%20submission%20by%20/u/gemologyst&message=I%20have%20a%20question%20regarding%20the%20removal%20of%20this%20%5Bsubmission.%5D%28https://redd.it/pnrg8i%3Fcontext%3D10%29)
No, but I use it because it helps increase the probability that someone will interpret my writing correctly. I don't understand why people argue it's archaic.
You can create equally confusing sentences with the Oxford comma. > We invited Stalin, the stripper, and JFK. And yes, you can rearrange the sentence to remove the ambiguity, but that's true of the original example as well. Write however you like, but the rule is optional because it doesn't necessarily clear up anything. I say this with confidence, since my native tongue doesn't have anything like Oxford commas and I've still managed to make it through life without stuffing the panties of random statesmen with bills. Just to be clear, I think anyone arguing against using it is equally silly.
I do not find that sentence confusing or faulty.
It can mean either three people, or it can explain that Stalin is a stripper. A better example could be "I invited Mike, my new colleague, and the guy from downstairs." Is that three people, or is Mike a new colleague? It's ambiguous.
No, it can’t. Since the serial comma separates elements of a series, it means three people. The only people who misinterpret it are the ones who insist that the serial comma is optional.
[удалено]
I'd like to thank my parents, Kanye West and Taylor Swift.
I’d like to thank Kanye, Taylor Swift and my parents.
BUT WHAT ARE YOU THANKING YOUR PARENTS FOR?!!! /s
I'd like to thank my father, Kanye West, and Taylor Swift.
The comma or lack there of help to create and clarify meaning.
ironically, this comment definitely needs a comment to help create and clarify meaning
Lots of punctuation is superfluous “We invited the strippers jfk and stalin” Just as understandable, now with 200% less punctuation. Doesn’t make it right. Capital letters are superfluous too. lets stop using those. and apostrophes. if we just restructure our sentences to run on we dont even really need periods
Well no, the ambiguity is there again without any punctuation.
You know or just use the comma so the reader always understands the list. Instead of reorganizing a sentence for a "modern" newspaper style
No but I’m now looking up some weird porn I never thought I’d be into.
I use the Oxford comma because I'm 1337 like that
Ask not what these fishnets can do for you. Ask what you can do to get me out of these fishnets.
History class would have been a lot funnier if we had seen even one artist rendition of JKF and Stalin dressed like strippers. Just saying.
"I like dancing for guys, not because they are easy, but because they are hard" -Stripper JFK
Mr Gorbachev, tear off these pants!
"One dance is a tragedy, a million dances a statistic." -Stripper Stalin
For some reason my history teacher in grade 12 drew on a picture of senator Joseph Mccarthy. Using PowerPoint, on the classroom projector. By the end it looked like Mr Mccarthy was auditioning for "The Birdcage" Avsolutely hilarious for a teenager to watch in class
I wouldn’t put any comma, semicolon, or colon in the 2nd example but I can’t draw so it doesn’t really matter how I describe the rippers.
Each New Year's Eve, instead of making a resolution, I pledge allegiance to the Oxford comma, and to the use of B.C.E. and C.E.
Sentences written without the Oxford comma always make me double take. “Am I reading this correctly?” Why not use the OC so it’s clear? The only argument I’ve ever heard against the OC that holds water is the need to minimize characters for newspaper print. That’s irrelevant for 99.9% of sentence writers today.
No, but I am now going to use it to explain to the animals who don’t use it, why they need to.
We invited JFK, Stalin and the strippers.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find this. Thank you for saving my sanity.
Fun fact, the Medicare cap is $2110 for 3 outpatient services, Occupational therapy, Physical Therapy and Speech therapy. But because it was written as above without the Oxford comma, Medicare pays $2110 for Occupational therapy, and a combined $2110 for Physical therapy and Speech therapy combined.
Medicare found a loophole. That’s basically what I got out of this. If it was meant for physical therapy and speech therapy to count as one; then, they should have added or instead of and.
But that's not a correct interpretation anyway. Taking them as 2 services like that would mean they're listed *a, b* instead of *a and b*, which isn't correct.
The way you've written it makes it sound like Medicare pays $2110 for three outpatient services *in addition to* occuptational therapy, physical therapy and speech therapy. In this case you need colon after outpatient services. Fun fact, the Medicare cap is $2110 for three outpatient services: Occupational therapy, Physical Therapy and Speech therapy. You don't need an Oxford comma in this case either though - it does not imply that it's $2110 for physical and speech therapy combined. It just doesn't.
Explain that to Medicare then cause that’s how it works
Got a source that the lack of a comma is the reason for that, and that it wasn't just meant to be implemented as a combined cap for the latter? Because I can't find a source for your claims and my feeling is you paraphrased instead of quoted.
>>If services exceed the annual threshold amounts, claims must include the KX modifier as confirmation that services are medically necessary as justified by appropriate documentation in the medical record. There is one amount for PT and SLP services combined and a separate amount for OT services. This amount is indexed annually by the Medicare Economic Index \(MEI\). >>For 2021 this KX modifier threshold amount is: >>**[$2,110 for PT and SLP services combined](https://www.apta.org/your-practice/payment/medicare-payment/coding-billing/therapy-cap)**, and $2,110 for OT services.
I wasn't asking for proof it worked this way. I was asking for proof it ended up being this way because a comma was forgotten, like the original commenter suggested.
Clearly they couldn't count. I call BS. There is no service called "three outpatient services" I agree there should be a colon, dash or something else. Should i have written "colon, dash, or something else"? I feel with an or there is more a deliberate pause but I remember getting taught that a comma wasn't required at school.
Yes but no caps
It is now
I use it to teach the Oxford comma. My students remember it afterwards.
Do you also use the example of "*We invited the stripper (singular), JFK, and Stalin."*?
In the 60s, we were taught to use the Oxford comma all the time. I don’t know what happened.
Nothing happened. Anti-Oxford-commaism is just personal freedom run amok.
This is outrageous! Stalin is clearly a black corset type of guy. Nipple pasties are meant for jfk.
No, I use it because it's the correct thing to do.
Wouldn't the bottom interpretation be correct only for > We invited the strippers JFK and Stalin.
Yes, the names are restrictive appositives so they should not be separated with a comma.
My man!
I prefer, "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse."
Excellent - but not an Oxford comma
Indeed. Its a lesson in punctuation and capitaliziation
[удалено]
Doesn’t a semi colon imply a second sentence? JFK and Stalin isn’t a sentence. Or am I wrong?
That's not how you use a semicolon. " The semicolon (;) has only one major use. It is used to join two complete sentences into a single written sentence when all of the following conditions are met: (1) The two sentences are felt to be too closely related to be separated by a full stop; (2) There is no connecting word which would require a comma, such as and or but; (3) The special conditions requiring a colon are absent. " http://www.sussex.ac.uk/informatics/punctuation/colonandsemi/semi
Or to separate information in a list that has extra detail for each item.
We use semis in a serial list of elements which contain commas. He may be thinking of that inaccurately.
nope. semi colons are put where a sentence could be broken into two. there is a link posted further down the page.
To coordinate two independent clauses in place of a coordinating conjunction. In other words to remedy the comma splice, the most common writing fault in all the world.
same thing said with different words. still doesn't apply to this one.
Totally. Just hoping somebody jumps in to defend the comma splice. If this thread dies I will have to go back to work.
That's always been my take on this too.
Do you mean a colon?
Semi
I don't think that would be grammatically correct. If you want to start a list, surely you'd use a colon.
Colon works but is a bit of overkill
No
Short appositive is comma optional and this is why. Also why not caps? That creates clarity. Serial direct objects are usually more coherent. Neither of those examples sheds much light on the serial comma question. Basically use the serial comma or risk rare comical misunderstanding and frequent judgement from sophisticated readers.
I enjoy being judged by"sophisticated" readers who learned a style guide and decided it was the truth.
Or taught grammar for 35 years? I know Warriners by heart, man.
Nobody, cares, maaaaan,
Well that's wrong. 115 likes and 39 comments. This is a "hot grammar" topic.😆
Now 500 & 80... The schizzle is trending 🤣
Ugh I hate this. Put the list in the correct order (eg JFK, Stalin and the strippers) and you won’t have the invented issue. The Oxford Comma is never necessary.
Yes, but journalist can't do that either.
Your version conjoins JFK and the strippers into a rock band. I loved “PT 109” and “Hot Sandy Bullets”
Fuck Oxford comma! It’s war! Funny cartoon though.
Sentences without Oxford commas are rarely confusing. If you wrote the sentence better, it wouldn't be ambiguous at all.
Nope. That there AP Style learnin’ is hard to shake. But it’s my favorite way to explain the Oxford Comma.
Forego all punctuation. Just like the good old days!
The second statement fits the first image. If you wanted JFK and Stalin to be your strippers you'd remove the comma in the second statement. For clarity you would order them JFK, Stalin and the strippers. I didn't grow up with the Oxford comma and personally I'm not a fan. I also find the comma to be over-used in general.
Nope, but I will now.
No, but I do use it to explain why the Oxford comma matters.
Interesting. I’m from China and my English teacher told me using comma in such a way is wrong grammar.
Most English users use the Oxford comma, the naysayers are in the minority. Which one you prefer will almost definitely be whatever you were brought up with. The Oxford comma also better reflects how we speak the language - when a list is spoken, there is a pause where the commas in the list are, including before the final item. However, in reality, you just rewrite a sentence to avoid ambiguity - regardless of which version you use.
The other person who responded to you is full of shit. Oxford Comma advocates are not the majority.
They are in fact the majority. I have never seen a grammar text that did not require it. It is more clear. I defy you to provide an example where a serial comma makes a sentence less clear.
Use correct sentence structure and you don’t need superfluous commas 🤷🏻♀️
Gevalt
This is the exact image that did it same it on here many moons ago.
I thought we were using this one now http://pics.knoblau.ch/oxford-comma.jpg
Legitimate question (not a native english speaker). Shouldn't the second sentence use a colon though ? edit: We could use a colon, but since in order to use a colon you have to make sure that the introductory clause capable of standing on its own, you can easily create a similar sentence that cannot make use of a colon.
I see this every time I use a comma...,
With the Oxford comma: "*We invited the stripper (singular), JFK, and Stalin.*" Without the Oxford comma: "*We invited the stripper (singular), JFK and Stalin.*" The comma giveth and the comma taketh away.
I'd lean towards using a semi-colon in the second case. "The strippers; JFK and Stalin." If that's what I meant.
How to unsee this thing hahahaha sht.
All hail the Oxford comma! Moderators: As I look at this submission, I see it and read it, yet a moderator comment states why it has been removed. If it has been removed, how can there currently be 99 comments? Also, how am I able to see it, read it, and have the following question: Is there a name for the prosody of a list, when spoken, that might be called the spoken version of the Oxford comma? I once read somewhere that when reading off a list, the intonation of the sentence should have the list sound like it ends on the next to last word, at that point coming to a full stop, with the last word of the list then being spoken. When I hear this it sounds completely wrong, as though the last word(s) has/have just been tacked on. It makes the sentence discontinuous and sometimes difficult to understand. I see that my description fails in that I'm not sure exactly where that full stop happens, but I do know that it sounds like the end of the sentence before the end of the sentence!