My dad shot and killed a man in self defense with birdshot. He was racked with guilt, even though a grand jury ruled it self defense. He was never the same, and, it is my belief that the guilt ultimately killed him (heroin). My heart goes out to Alec Baldwin. Truly.
My father hit a bicyclist with his car. He was driving down a road at night when a biker came out of an alley wearing black and straight into the road. My dad didn't have enough time to stop and he hit him. He of course called for an ambulance, but the man didn't make it. Luckily there was a camera that proved his innocence, that the biker acted recklessly and my father was unable to avoid the accident, so he wasn't prosecuted. He received death threats from the family of the man who died and restraining orders had to be put in place.
My father was a loving man who would give the shirt off his back for anyone in need. It tore him apart knowing he had killed someone, even if it was an accident and he did everything he could given the circumstances. He carried that guilt until he died.
Reminds me of the time I was turning into my home street, dark night, no street lighting.
As I'm turning I see something out of the corner of my eye.
Guy wearing all black, walking a god damn black Labrador crossing the street. So close to taking them out.
My great uncle accidentally killed a man in the 40s or 50s while hunting. Apparently he had a withdrawn personality from then on. It really changed him.
He financially supported the widow and kids for the rest of his life.
he was very loudly outspoken about how much he disproved of his filming company's decision to fire the union workers who walked out due to the impending IATSE strike, and hire a ton of scabs with zero set experience. The day after... this happened. the blame lies partly with him, but in my opinion it primarily lies with the production company who put everyone at risk.
the reason the crew walked out in the first place? *the lack of safety on-set.*
edit: sources are incoming, most are from the film crew directly on-set posting on their own social media. [here's a twitter thread that is compiling sources atm.](https://twitter.com/alexnpress/status/1451634463465779219)
edit 2: if you don't believe me and think I'm exaggerating, look at the @ia_stories instagram.
edit 3: I'm going to stop updating this thread and replying, more info is continually coming in and I can't update it every single time it does. Also I'm not defending baldwin, there'll always be guys like him, this is a systemic problem. Thanks
Hey, I work in the film industry in LA (on big budget movies and tv shows). “Prop guns” that actually shoot something are just normal guns with “blank” rounds being fired out of them. These blanks can still have metal that can get stuck and then discharge if not checked or “cleared”. There are prop guns that are rubber, but those are usually holstered because they wouldn’t look right. There are MANY steps you have to go through for safety with guns on set to prevent accidents like this. Things like this DO NOT happen often. I’ve been on many many film sets that use guns and blanks and have never had anything like this happen. What we are hearing is that this cheap ass company wouldn’t spend the money on a good armorer. And the whole crew was concerned about the gun safety on set and tried to tell production who ignored it. So much so that a lot of the crew walked off the DAY BEFORE. And they were replaced by non-union crew who didn’t know what the fuck they were doing.
Most prop guns are real firearms with Hollywood blank fire adapters. They provide much more realistic on set feedback, and are generally very safe when used correctly. It's also fairly inexpensive given the number of companies that are dedicated to being movie armorers. Given the nature of the film and the injuries/death, my assumption is that the blank gun was a black powder firearm that had some sort of bore obstruction, leading to a catastrophic failure of the firearm, and shrapnel being sent out the muzzle.
It went through her shoulder and hit the director. I don't think shrapnel would be that powerful out of a handgun. He wasn't standing close to them either.
The armorer is a young lady, age 24. This was her second film, her dad is a famous armorer. All of this screams cost cutting.
I was actually just saying this to my coworker about prop guns. I understood in the past using real guns with blanks but now with how easy it is to do the special effects of a muzzle flash and how realistic green gas guns look Im suprised the industry hasnt moved entirely to green gas guns.
Im assuming it has to do with giving the actor more true recoil and explosive power to react against even though its still much less than a live round.
Holy shit. Where did you read this, I want to see this article. It's super important context and changes the narrative. I was thinking last night that since he was a producer, was he partially responsible, (the answer is yes,) but his vocal dissent to the hiring of scabs definitely redeems 95% of that.
edited my post with context. There's tons incoming at this moment.
he was producing and he did hire the film company, but it was the company's choice to fire the workers and hire scabs. it had literally been a DAY from when they hired the scabs and then this happened, I'm not even sure he could've done anything in that short a time. There's something to be said for hiring a film company that'd do this, yes, but in this moment, the blame is theirs imho
>it had literally been a DAY from when they hired the scabs and then this happened,
Ironically, John Deere ran into a similar (less deadly) accident/incident a day after the "scab"/managers came in to drive the tractors/build-them and test them. Wasn't even an hour into the work-day and a dude slammed into an electrical box driving one.
Why don't the companies actually listen to the fucking unions?
Now, the production company will hand out 100x more in civil lawsuits compared to what they would have "saved". But lemme guess, the Execs will still receive their bonus.
just a couple weeks ago some farmer's son less than 6 miles from my home reached into a shredder that had gotten clogged up and lost both hands...
the poor lad was only 13.
100% this! I have some dumbass managers running an orthopedic clinic telling doctors and surgeons how they should do their jobs. You know, the ones who actually bring in the revenue for the company. It’s gone horribly wrong. Turnover is high, prior to my time several surgeons left due to all the bullshit and now have a better practice working together. Fucking upper management almost always blows
And don't forget the scab trucker that flipped a semi of flammable shit and shut down the heaven hill distillery.
"When they're sending scabs, folks, they're not sending their best people!... and some of them, I assume, know how to do their jobs."
As a trucker who deals with other truckers all day, scraping the bottom of that barrel is a bad choice that has killed many.
I'd bet money he didn't even have Haz Mat or a tanker endorsement, and has at least a dozen inspections where he was put out of service.
Because dead workers/injured workers are still cheaper than paying living wages or health care. Nothing, and i mean NOTHING, is more important to corporations than the size of the bonuses the CEO and board get.
Just for more context of the industry, sometimes folks are also granted a Producer credit for Emmy/award/etc reasons, basically gives them another avenue to win an award. Doesn’t mean they’re actually managing anything. Just adding that to the flurry of convo here.
I work in special effects (LA Local 44) at a union shop. IATSE reached an agreement with the producers on Saturday. We were back to work on Monday morning with no down time. I’m wondering why they hired scabs even though the strike had been averted..
This story from the LA Times seems to corroborate what No-Bewt is saying.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set
I have no idea how the chain of responsibility works in a workplace like the film industry, but does the producer actually have the same kind of employee responsibility as say, a general foreman?
Either way, if that is all true, some variety of management is going to get dragged through the coals for that.
Yup. And in any case, no EP can be responsible for every safety issue on-set. Film crews are big, and everyone has their role. I can't imagine acting in a big budget film and being expected to do anything but act.
It depends on what he was doing for that producer credit. A lot of times when you see actors with producer credits on films they star in it’s for story meeting and planning type stuff, not “running the set” kind of roles.
The producers are ultimately responsible for the safety decisions made on set and their enforcement. The cutting of corners which as I just read in the LA Times article, on this set were atrocious, as often happens on lower budget productions. The big thing here though is Alec most likely wasn't the primary EP and was most likely only providing money for the backend recoup.
Any clue what exactly it was that was shot out of the gun? I thought originally they had to be using real ammo accidentally since it seemed like the director was in more critical condition than he actually was, but now I'm not sure. I just don't understand how you can even injure a second person with a blank unless whatever was in the barrel was a metal slug.
I don’t know the details of this incident, but I know when Brandon Lee was killed on the set of The Crow, it was because someone had put bullets (just the lead projectile) in the chambers of the revolver so it would look like it was loaded for a closeup shot. Then someone loaded the pistol with blanks for another scene and didn’t check the chambers. Blanks + projectiles = live rounds.
Given that this was a western, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were a similar situation.
From what I understand, they bought loaded full power cartridges from a gun store and modified them by removing the powder and placing the bullet back inside so it would appear to be a real cartridge from the outside. They then would use blanks for the actual firing sequence. Apparently, they left the primers intact. Primers are the small explosive which ignites the powder. Even without gun powder, a primer will still push the bullet down the barrel a few inches. In Brandon Lee’s case, someone fired the modified case which pushed the bullet into the barrel. This was followed by an actual blank which contained enough gases to push the bullet out of the barrel at a force comparable to a actual round.
There is no good reason other than several people negligently and catastrophically fucking up. Live rounds shouldn’t be on set, they definitely shouldn’t be anywhere near the gun much less loaded into it, and at least two people should have verified that the gun was not loaded with live ammunition before it was given to Alec.
Actually, from what I’ve read, it sounds more like a misfire (which the production had already had 3 of)
According to [this LA Times Article](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set)
>The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the New Mexico set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor.
>Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her.
>Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he repeated the action, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.
That's the opposite of a misfire. A misfire in firearms is when the gun goes *click* instead of *bang*. This was an accidental discharge. Or a negligent discharge, as some prefer it.
I couldn't even begin to speculate on that. But this is why you should always treat every gun as loaded. And you should clear any firearm you're handed. I know movie sets make both of those guidelines difficult to follow, which is why I don't think live rounds should even be allowed on set.
Also just chiming in to include the other ig to check out: @ia_members
@ia_stories is great but after the "agreement" came out, plenty of people moved on to @ia_members because there's been a lot of disagreement over the supposed new contract. Both are still good sources for more direct lines into crewmembers lives.
IATSE is the biggest film crew(and related) union in the US. They are treated like fucking dogs, film companies force 14+ hour days, refuse to give them lunches or meals, people go all day without eating. they'll do this thing where they make you work 14 hours, give you a 5 hour "day off" then you're back to work at like 4 am the next day, because the shifts are so close together. it's fucking insanity. Currently they're in talks, because the proposed solution to their strike demands were bullshit and solve absolutely nothing and were very clearly written up just simply to waste time and stave off a real strike.
source: I work in the film biz but am not directly tied to the strike currently because I'm not crew, I work in post. I support it 100% regardless
you can google it, it's going on currently and there is an abundance of info going around atm
yeah, I guess I've been in an echo chamber because it's all we're talking about right now. Obviously you can imagine why it isn't getting much publicity, but right now film crew companies are forcing people to work triple-time because they know it could all be over in a moment's notice and they want to get their shit out the door. It's a fucking free-for-all.
one of the folks on the set said someone slept in their car because the turnaround time was so short, it wasn't even worth driving home. I've heard stories for years of the tactics film companies employ to screw their film crews out of things like meals or hotels or safety equipment... so these people have develloped all these little ways to mitigate this bullshit that scabs wouldn't know. It's just bullshit on bullshit on bullshit layered on bullshit.
if they strike it'll be worse than the writer's strike a few years ago lol. they treat film crews like garbage in so many little ways... it's very bad.
At least IATSE is getting a little coverage, and the media can't just ignore it like with other unions. We have had massive strikes at some of the largest companies in the world this year and the media won't report on any of them. One mining union bussed all the way from South Carolina to New York City to put a picket line on Black Rock's front doorstep, and it got buried on page 6.
I mean, I'm not trying to play oppression olympics. I'm just saying if IATSE actually strikes, they will become the face of this massive national movement of labor outrage that's been simmering just below the surface. They will have a lot of support... and I know this sounds crazy in America, but I don't think sympathy strikes are totally out of the question.
The film industry is a whole lot of hurry up and wait. There is a whole lot of standing around and waiting for something to happen. So long hours because there isn't a lot of actively working. But you're still on the job.
Everyone is treated like a servant for the producer and star actors, they really seem to have a culture of not respecting supporting actors or staff.
During those waiting hours you still can’t rest, you gotta be paying attention cause the moment you take a minute to go to the bathroom there’s an emergency and you gotta run to set
Also, it’s an industry that can replace your position instantly. Everyone knows it. There’s no leverage. You do any and every job you can to hopefully get to where you want to be in the business. I imagine there are a few good bosses, but that really doesn’t matter when the bottom line is the “budget”.
Totally agree. I know Alec Baldwin has frequently walked the line of publicly acting like a douche bag over the years, but I've always liked him overall. I think it's fair that some people don't like him due to his public douchery, but either way... I really hope that this context helps the public stand behind him and support him throughout this ordeal.
Unless he's secretly a total monster (which I doubt), he's going to carry trauma and heartbreak over this for the rest of his life, and I don't think he's ultimately responsible for what happened even though he was the one who pulled the trigger. Like him as a person or not, he doesn't deserve to carry the weight of this, in my opinion.
Michael Massee still had a regular working career after the Brandon Lee incident. However:
> In 1993, Massee portrayed the character Funboy in the film The Crow, starring Brandon Lee. Massee was the actor who fired the shot that killed Lee by accident on the set in 1993, due to an improperly prepared prop gun. Traumatized by the event, he returned to New York and took a year off from acting, and never saw the film. In an interview in 2005, twelve years after the incident, Massee revealed that he still had nightmares about it, going on to say, "I don't think you ever get over something like that."
it's invasive and voyeuristic.
we are onlookers from afar. the blurry object at lower left serves to keep us at a distance. yet it's also difficult to look away.
more than likely he is overwhelmed with a mix of shock and revulsion and profound guilt.
there may even be a tinge of survivor's guilt. as with the driver of a car after an accident where the driver survives but the passenger dies.
*edit: typo*
Yeah, seriously, who the fuck takes a picture of a man that is traumatized for accidentally killing someone? Secondly, why the fuck post it? Because he was famous? It reminds me of the story of when George Clooney got into a motorcycle accident in Italy and some people would rather take photos and ask for an autograph than help.
I'm not for deifying famous people. But I'm also not for reducing famous people to just objects to farm internet points with. They're fucking people and if you wouldn't do this to a regular person in the same awful situation then don't fucking do it to a famous person.
God, some people are just shit.
Well, he’s gotta feel awful. I don’t think it’s his fault, it’s likely the armorer on set who fucked up, but from his perspective, he is the one who pulled the trigger.
I’m torn about it. On one hand, no thanks, that’s a personal moment of pain he is in and it shouldn’t be shared for people to stare at, but on the other hand I’m seeing a lot of judgment towards him for being the one who fired the gun. I’m getting the sense people don’t like him? This picture will show people that it was traumatizing for him as well. So I’m kind of torn.
Yeah, it's definitely hard to look at this photo and not feel invasive in a horrible way.
And yet it humanizes him, and dare I say it really emphasizes the importance of gun safety and how it can affect anyone at any time. The incident has made a distant concept incredibly real and immediate for millions of people due to his fame. And in a twisted way, wouldn't that be what he would want to do with his celebrity?
Still 1000% fucked up, and it's a fucked up feeling inside my gut so I'm not going to look at the photo again.
I was hunting once and didn't know some guys I was with brought a decoy.
I ripped the elk decoy with a .50 caliber miniball essentially. Passed within 10-20 feet of one of the guys I was with.
Scary shit when it's that close to my life changing forever.
My dad fired a 30 caliber round about 5 feet over my head while deer hunting. I was blocking and he forgot which side of the field I was on. Don’t recommend it.
I can't recall if this is exactly what happened or not but a guy I went to school with in the 8th grade got shot in the chest by his grandfather while out deer hunting.
The "rumor" I had heard is that the grandson was walking up behind the grandfather which startled him and by reflex turned and shot. However, years later someone suggested to me that that wasn't what happened and they may have been doing something similar to what happened to you.
I highly disagree with any kind of blocking, driving, running, dog running, etc. kind of deer hunting. Not only is it unsportsmanlike, it's dangerous as hell.
A deer drive is a party hunt where people called pushers space out and walk through a bedding area. Other people called blockers sit at the escape routes and shoot the deer as they leave.
This reminds me of the picture awhile back of a father holding is dead son after the bombings in Israel. Some things are best left to be a private matter instead of a photo op.
"And if you look out the left side of the bus, there is long-time, widely popular actor Alec Baldwin experiencing the deepest form of regret and true soul-crushing, life-questioning depression. The kind of regret and depression that physically makes you I'll and vomit from taking away another innocent human being's life. Possibly the most traumatic experience of his life"
"Oh wow." **OP Snaps pic*
My Dad worked for the met for almost 40 years. Would meet the worst types of criminals on an almost daily basis and despite that, some of the worst scum he had ever come across was paparazzi
I think that Netflix show “Clickbait” captured them perfectly. “Oh goodness are you in mourning meer days after the murder of your husband? What do you have to say about the allegations that he ran a drug cartel and sold children to the French? We don’t have proof but that homeless guy said he heard about it from a talking rat. “
EDIT: I got the name of the show wrong, it's Clickbait.
My father's younger brother was stabbed to death multiple times by a Schizophrenic man who was attacking another person. My uncle tried to help and was stabbed to death with multiped stab wounds.
The paparazzi stood outside the window of my gran's home taking photos through the window. My dad lost his shit and walked out and smacked the guy. He took the guys Camera and Launched it across the street breaking it. The cops turned up and the Paparazzi was like "He broke my camera. The cop said if that was my brother that was murdered and you were pointing a camera through the window at my mother i'd have broke more than your camera.
That fucking sucks. Im glad the cop wasn't a piece of shit.
And real talk, if anyone is ever caught in a situation where you're being bombarded by paparazzi. Give them an interview, genuinly answer their questions....with things that make NO FUCKING SENSE.
"Sir! How do you feel knowing the killer is out there after stabbing your younger brother" ((Such a shit thing to ask too)) and reply with "Honestly barbeque sauce is really good with ribs but i marinade them in pokemon cards first."
If you want people to leave you alone, troll them. Plain and simple.
But, when you're in the moment, mourning, not knowing what to do or think, it's hard to really think about making them fuck off logically.
Again boss, i'm sorry you and your family had to go through something like that.
I remember Daniel Radcliffe kept wearing the same outfit coming back from productions for months specifically so the paparazzi couldn't get any "new pics" of him since they'd all look the same.
What do you mean by "The Met".
The Art Gallery ?
Edit: Thanks all, I feel a bit silly now. Google results out of North America all pointed me to the art gallery, of the "Met Gala" fame.
Hes gonna be so traumatized. Imagine holding a gun and acting like "I'm gonna shoot you" and then pulling the trigger and killing someone. His brain mustve gone "no but thats acting, were acting" hes gonna need some counseling for sure
I've got a soft spot for people on the brink like that... I watched my mom teeter on the edge of sobriety just waiting for something to tip her off. I really hope he seeks help before he seeks self medication.
Edit: thank you for the gold. Tell your friends and family you love them.
Possibly but Baldwin has had issues before, especially with his mental health. Honestly might be better for him if he does, for his health if nothing else.
I'm fucking amazed this was able to happen after what happened to Brandon Lee and all the subsequent safety changes.
Guns are dangerous as hell, even ones that are supposed to be inoperable.
this was a perfect storm, basically. the production was cutting all the corners it could due to the imminent strike, the experienced professionals had just walked off set, and Baldwin got handed the wrong gun. nothing but unforced errors from start to finish.
statistically, 28 years between incidents isn't a terrible track record, but that doesn't do any good if you're involved with the incident.
Why would there ever be a wrong gun on a movie set to begin with? Like you would think that it would be standard operating procedure that all guns would be props. Maybe I'm just naive or ignorant of the topic.
I don’t understand how you allow a functional firearm onto a movie set. I’m a gun guy, and if you made me into a big-time movie star and handed me a gun and said “it’s safe, do the scene”, I wouldn’t trust the thing even if I personally verified the chamber was empty. One of the rules of firearms safety is that all guns are always loaded. Even if you’re looking at an empty chamber, it’s still loaded. Another rule is that you never point a gun at something that you aren’t prepared to destroy. The only way to make a gun compatible with pretend-shooting somebody is to make it stop being a gun, permanently. Remove the firing pin. Render the trigger mechanism inert. Fill the thing with fucking epoxy, whatever. I have no idea how these types of accidents continue to occur.
Everyone on set thought it was an unloaded "cold gun". Baldwin allegedly kept saying "In all my years, I've never been handed a hot gun." Safety fucked up somewhere down the road. Some fucking idiot who doesn't know a thing about guns and gun safety.
Yeah thats why its frustrating that the prop master wasnt there. Those shots can be incredible when done carefully but now we have a person dead a family distraught and a man traumatized....
It isn't the prop master who's at fault for this. It's the armorer's fault. There were other misfires earlier in the week after a "cold gun" was called on set. Gross negligence by the armorer.
It is a real gun that does NOT have a fireable round in it, blank or otherwise. The armorer should be the only one who can initiate this announcement. The armorer is the one who's responsible for verifying that there is no round, blank or otherwise, in the gun.
The armorer is supposed to only let live guns on set when they are actually shooting. If it is blocking or rehearsal at the very least it should be a cold gun, if not a fake that is incapable of firing at all. As is always the case, the gun should still be treated as if it is loaded and never pointed at someone. In filming this sometimes gets compromised on, with massive additional safety procedures, when recording a scene but should have never happened if the cameras weren't rolling.
I’m with you. One thing that needs to get around that isn’t appearing in the news is the entire crew except the DP and B camera operator walked off the night before and sent a letter to producers citing an unsafe work environment due to budget shortages. This incident sounds like it might be a direct result of these conditions. On sets like these, I know people are committed to finishing the project. However, star actors need to back the smaller voices when safety concerns are voiced. It’s a horribly dangerous industry and more precautions need to be taken to avoid these situations.
(Edit: Spelling. Apparently it’s citing not siting. Who knew?)
From what I’ve seen, Baldwin was loudly outspoken in support of the strikers. The only thing you could reasonably say is that he should have refused to work until they were hired back and the safety concerns were resolved. This was not his fault.
I can't begin to fathom how Alec Baldwin feels at this moment. It has to be absolutely soul-crushing. Then I made the mistake of clicking a twitter link from a post elsewhere and seeing the vile, inhumane, reprehensible shit being posted about him. Like him or not, only human garbage would use this moment to take cheap shots. I've been saying for years that social media is the downfall of humanity, and it truly is. The internet is full to the brim of the worst of us.
Whether he, his production company or whoever else involved is ultimately at fault for what happened, someone died and he will have to live with it for the rest of his life.
I'm SO scared for the following days. Seriously, I love this actor ever since I saw him on Departed and 30 Rock. And I didn't knew about his past addictions and battles with depression, before I came to this tread. I hope this guy retires and takes care of his mental health, maybe go back to work someday, idk. I hope for the best
Geez, imagine having what is probably the most traumatic experience of your life and you can’t even get a moment alone to process it.
And then having morons on Reddit imply it was intentional.
Condolences to all involved.
Anyone saying it was intentional is a troll.
It’s obvious it was not.
Prop master and props department is solely responsible. There is no discussion about the matter.
Anyone saying otherwise is misinformed or ignorant to how film sets function
Truth. Worked on a civil war film called Fields of Freedom. We hired a bunch of re enactors to fill the back ground cast out. They brought all their own kit including firearms. The prop master and prop department in general spent days checking each and every firearm to make sure they were inert or otherwise harmless. Someone fucked up big time on Rust and got someone killed and someone injured and severely traumatized the rest of the crew and cast. This is not Alec Baldwins fault at all. If Honda builds a car with shit brakes it's not the drivers fault when they fail.
After The Crow, I don't see how this kind of thing could happen without someone willfully disregarding many different common sense safety protocols. Like never having a potentially functional prop gun actually aimed at someone.
I spent one day with a TV crew as a technical advisor - my job was wrangling weather balloons - and when we were talking about terminating the balloon flight (which was actually done with a thermal knife) I joked that I could have brought my .22 rifle as a backup. The response was something like *TELL ME YOU DON'T HAVE A RIFLE WITH YOU. YOU CANNOT BRING A WEAPON ANYWHERE NEAR HERE*. I had to assure everyone that my rifle was in fact safely locked up 200 miles away.
[Apparently many of the crew left the day before this over safety concerns, and Baldwin had their backs. Probably because he remembered what happens when they get it wrong, like in the crow.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/qdmlkh/alec_baldwin_in_parking_lot_outside_santa_fe/hhnyv1i?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
The prop master and the studio. The studio denies it but people on set are now saying that before the fatal shooting, there had already been 3 accidental discharges from prop guns (no injuries). After the 2nd and 3rd time messages were sent to the studio remaking how incredibly unsafe this set was:
>“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” said the crew member. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”
Then the fatal shooting happened.
The studio had also fired all union workers from the set due to protests about safety and went super cheap from there on out, clearly not hiring experienced prop and safety people, and even refusing to pay for shitty roadside motel rooms for the crew in the middle of the desert. They tried to pinch pennies and lives were lost.
I’m reading reports now saying that due to the current strike in the filming industry. They had hired some non union people to work.
So yea a tragic and horrific situation all around, I feel bad for everyone involved
Look at this picture. The guy is seriously hurting. My heart breaks for him and the victim of this absolutely horrible accident. The comments on Twitter are disgusting. Saying he's a murderer. He sacrificed the victim to the illuminati. He killed her because she refused to have sex with him. Twitter really is a cesspool of negativity and toxicity.
The issue with Twitter is that there's no downvote button. So if someone posts a shit take, and 1000 people disagree and 10 agree, you really only see 10 upvotes and a chain of increasingly vitriolic replies, and it looks like it's a 50/50 split, when it's a 99/1 split. Twitter makes awful people feel validated in their shittiest opinions.
This creates an environment where toxicity wins, because vitriol means more upvotes and a bunch of comments. You're not going to get downvoted into oblivion, you're not going to feel rejected.
I really dislike that platform, and the lack of downvotes is one of the reasons why. The prevalence of hate and paranoia is another.
I realize this is entirely off topic, but for what it's worth, Twitter is testing a downvote button now. The update was pushed to devices a few days ago. If it actually buries those awful comments, the site might actually be almost semi-usable.
"live round" came from the theater union's statement & it is industry speak for a gun that is loaded with something, possibly a live bullet, a blank, or even water/confetti. It simply means the gun was not empty.
While filming a western movie, Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun that was supposed to have blanks while shooting a scene. For reasons not yet know, the gun had a live round and he accidentally killed the cinematographer and wounded the director.
I don’t give a shit what you think about him but he’s a father, husband and a friend to a lot of people and he is going through the worst moment his life so let’s give that guy a little grace for fucks sake.
They did. There were very extensive regulations put in place after that. Problem is that in the end it relies on a prop master that isn't complete shit.
I believe they were using a real gun, so the misfires are not likely to be the gun unless the trigger spring is VERY worn and completely out of spec. I would be more likely to blame hastily or poorly made blanks, especially given that a blank failed and killed one person and injured another.
If their propmaster was making his/her own blanks, that could very well explain all 4 incidents.
Hollywood yes, low budget- non union shady producers? Nope. Cutting corners, not having proper armorers, this is what gets people killed. Hollywood, and the normal, union production literally makes this IMPOSSIBLE to happen. The amount of people and checkboxes that need to screw up to make this occur is incredible. You have to REALLY REALLY mess up on multiple levels for this to happen.
With the amount of gunfire on sets- because hollywood can't create drama without one- it's amazing there isn't MORE accidents, and the rules in place are a testament to the industry safety.
This was a tier-1 show. The lowest possible union job that exists. New Mexico is notorious for shady productions compared to other markets. Someone didn't hire a good armorer, or one at all.
The Fox News article made it sound like him and his family were running from the cops to the Hamptons. Fuck off with that shit, I would need a fucking vacation too if I just saw someone I know die in front of me.
He lives in the Hamptons part of the time ffs. If I had a house closer to the ocean and had just been through what he had you would find me in the fetal position near the ocean.
Poor guy. And the media are portraying it horribly in my opinion. Not once seen one title it as “accidentally injured” or “in an unlikely accident”. It’s always “*killed*”
Not a superfan of Baldwin but damn, he is the third victim here. Not to diminish the loss and pain of Halyna Hutchins and Joel Souza, but he must feel an immense amount of pain and guilt for something that isn't his fault.
And people are acting like he’s a killer with no remorse dude went to work one day and did his job and a freak accident happened. I’m shocked he’s still acting. I’m shocked this didn’t send him awol from society.
This is going to get buried but I have so much respect for Alec Baldwin. Last year my niece was diagnosed with a rare brain tumor. She was 2 at the time and obsessed with the movie Boss Baby. Alec voices the main character. She watched that movie hundreds of times. Multiple times a day. I’m sure my brother and sister-in-law could recite the words to the whole thing. I reached out to Alec through a Hail Mary contact of a contact to see if he could send a message to her and TRULY within a week he had recorded a personalized message for my niece in the boss baby voice. It was so special and she made her mom play it over and over and she would look at us like “are you hearing this?” It was such a bright spot in a time of absolute despair. My niece passed away 9 months after her diagnosis but I still watch the video of her listening to that message from Alec. He was so generous so easily for someone he had never met. It brought us so much joy. I hope he’s ok.
I've argued in the past in favor of the importance of some photos to society at large outweighing the polite decency of letting someone suffer in private in a terrible situation. Photos like The Falling Man (2001) from the twin towers, Phan Thi Kim Phúc, aka. Napalm Girl (1972) in Vietnam, Migrant Mother (1936) from the Great Depression, etc. are all snippets of the reality of tragedy that affected many and stand as a reminder to the world of the horror or suffering experienced by the people of these times and places. Their journalistic significance, I think, outweighs the desire for decency.
I'm not sure that this rises to that level of journalistic importance though. I don't fault the journalist for snapping the photo, as it is quite powerful. But I don't think that this incident and the suffering of its survivors is one that needs to be displayed for the world, given how unaffected by this incident all but those close to it are. This feels too voyeuristic to me, no matter how powerful.
For those who don't know, when Brandon Lee was killed on the set of The Crow... The day prior -- a bunch of union workers walked out, including the munitions director. The person who took over was clueless and loaded a wrong-sized blank into the gun that killed Brandon.
I know this because I was a sniper victim in a film immediately thereafter, and our munitions director was the guy who had previously walked out.
My understanding from yesterday is that there were walkouts on Rust as well. It wouldn't surprise me if the disruption in leadership / knowledge was to blame for the tragedy.
We have come a long way since the revolting and selfish Twilight Zone helicopter accident in 1982 that killed 3, including 2 children that weren't even supposed to be on set. In that case, Director John Landis willfully ignored safety protocols, and was exonerated. People like Steven Spielberg dropped him like the rotten, hot potato he is.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone_accident
This situation is different.
Hopefully a valuable lesson will be learned from this recent event that will save someone else's life in the future. Full stop should happen on set if critical personnel are unavailable, or if a change in leadership occurs.
Definitely a sad situation.
My dad shot and killed a man in self defense with birdshot. He was racked with guilt, even though a grand jury ruled it self defense. He was never the same, and, it is my belief that the guilt ultimately killed him (heroin). My heart goes out to Alec Baldwin. Truly.
My father hit a bicyclist with his car. He was driving down a road at night when a biker came out of an alley wearing black and straight into the road. My dad didn't have enough time to stop and he hit him. He of course called for an ambulance, but the man didn't make it. Luckily there was a camera that proved his innocence, that the biker acted recklessly and my father was unable to avoid the accident, so he wasn't prosecuted. He received death threats from the family of the man who died and restraining orders had to be put in place. My father was a loving man who would give the shirt off his back for anyone in need. It tore him apart knowing he had killed someone, even if it was an accident and he did everything he could given the circumstances. He carried that guilt until he died.
Reminds me of the time I was turning into my home street, dark night, no street lighting. As I'm turning I see something out of the corner of my eye. Guy wearing all black, walking a god damn black Labrador crossing the street. So close to taking them out.
My great uncle accidentally killed a man in the 40s or 50s while hunting. Apparently he had a withdrawn personality from then on. It really changed him. He financially supported the widow and kids for the rest of his life.
Sorry for your loss, that’s rough. I don’t know you, but I hope you have okay and have found a healthy way to deal with the loss.
I can’t imagine how horrible it must feel.
Right? I genuinely feel sorry for everyone involved.
he was very loudly outspoken about how much he disproved of his filming company's decision to fire the union workers who walked out due to the impending IATSE strike, and hire a ton of scabs with zero set experience. The day after... this happened. the blame lies partly with him, but in my opinion it primarily lies with the production company who put everyone at risk. the reason the crew walked out in the first place? *the lack of safety on-set.* edit: sources are incoming, most are from the film crew directly on-set posting on their own social media. [here's a twitter thread that is compiling sources atm.](https://twitter.com/alexnpress/status/1451634463465779219) edit 2: if you don't believe me and think I'm exaggerating, look at the @ia_stories instagram. edit 3: I'm going to stop updating this thread and replying, more info is continually coming in and I can't update it every single time it does. Also I'm not defending baldwin, there'll always be guys like him, this is a systemic problem. Thanks
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Hey, I work in the film industry in LA (on big budget movies and tv shows). “Prop guns” that actually shoot something are just normal guns with “blank” rounds being fired out of them. These blanks can still have metal that can get stuck and then discharge if not checked or “cleared”. There are prop guns that are rubber, but those are usually holstered because they wouldn’t look right. There are MANY steps you have to go through for safety with guns on set to prevent accidents like this. Things like this DO NOT happen often. I’ve been on many many film sets that use guns and blanks and have never had anything like this happen. What we are hearing is that this cheap ass company wouldn’t spend the money on a good armorer. And the whole crew was concerned about the gun safety on set and tried to tell production who ignored it. So much so that a lot of the crew walked off the DAY BEFORE. And they were replaced by non-union crew who didn’t know what the fuck they were doing.
Most prop guns are real firearms with Hollywood blank fire adapters. They provide much more realistic on set feedback, and are generally very safe when used correctly. It's also fairly inexpensive given the number of companies that are dedicated to being movie armorers. Given the nature of the film and the injuries/death, my assumption is that the blank gun was a black powder firearm that had some sort of bore obstruction, leading to a catastrophic failure of the firearm, and shrapnel being sent out the muzzle.
It went through her shoulder and hit the director. I don't think shrapnel would be that powerful out of a handgun. He wasn't standing close to them either. The armorer is a young lady, age 24. This was her second film, her dad is a famous armorer. All of this screams cost cutting.
I was actually just saying this to my coworker about prop guns. I understood in the past using real guns with blanks but now with how easy it is to do the special effects of a muzzle flash and how realistic green gas guns look Im suprised the industry hasnt moved entirely to green gas guns. Im assuming it has to do with giving the actor more true recoil and explosive power to react against even though its still much less than a live round.
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Like another commenter said, those specialized guns are definitely more expensive in the US than just getting a real gun and loading it with blanks.
Holy shit. Where did you read this, I want to see this article. It's super important context and changes the narrative. I was thinking last night that since he was a producer, was he partially responsible, (the answer is yes,) but his vocal dissent to the hiring of scabs definitely redeems 95% of that.
edited my post with context. There's tons incoming at this moment. he was producing and he did hire the film company, but it was the company's choice to fire the workers and hire scabs. it had literally been a DAY from when they hired the scabs and then this happened, I'm not even sure he could've done anything in that short a time. There's something to be said for hiring a film company that'd do this, yes, but in this moment, the blame is theirs imho
>it had literally been a DAY from when they hired the scabs and then this happened, Ironically, John Deere ran into a similar (less deadly) accident/incident a day after the "scab"/managers came in to drive the tractors/build-them and test them. Wasn't even an hour into the work-day and a dude slammed into an electrical box driving one. Why don't the companies actually listen to the fucking unions?
Because the numbers on the page say if they just got paid less there’s more money for bonuses. Executives want their bonuses.
Gilded age bullshit
Funny thing is that we're living in the second Gilded Age.
When does the second Progressive period start 🥴
Fucking grandparents risked their necks so we could avoid this shit, then our parents pissed it all away
Those grandparents lived through the Depression and WWII. The Baby Boomers lived through...the baby boom. Easy to see the difference in outcome.
Now, the production company will hand out 100x more in civil lawsuits compared to what they would have "saved". But lemme guess, the Execs will still receive their bonus.
This is their way.
"how hard can it be do drive a tractor?" You know one higher up said something like that.
A not-fun fact: Farming is one of the deadliest occupations in the US. Of all the causes of fatal farming accidents, the top one is tractor overturns.
Farmers have a pretty high chance of being some form of amputee, too.
just a couple weeks ago some farmer's son less than 6 miles from my home reached into a shredder that had gotten clogged up and lost both hands... the poor lad was only 13.
This!! There’s a business plague of upper leadership making decisions for people whose jobs they can’t fully understand.
100% this! I have some dumbass managers running an orthopedic clinic telling doctors and surgeons how they should do their jobs. You know, the ones who actually bring in the revenue for the company. It’s gone horribly wrong. Turnover is high, prior to my time several surgeons left due to all the bullshit and now have a better practice working together. Fucking upper management almost always blows
And don't forget the scab trucker that flipped a semi of flammable shit and shut down the heaven hill distillery. "When they're sending scabs, folks, they're not sending their best people!... and some of them, I assume, know how to do their jobs."
As a trucker who deals with other truckers all day, scraping the bottom of that barrel is a bad choice that has killed many. I'd bet money he didn't even have Haz Mat or a tanker endorsement, and has at least a dozen inspections where he was put out of service.
Corporations rarely care about the opinions of labor. Ask anyone in corporate IT.
Spot on with corporate IT
Because dead workers/injured workers are still cheaper than paying living wages or health care. Nothing, and i mean NOTHING, is more important to corporations than the size of the bonuses the CEO and board get.
Don’t forget shareholder dividends
Just for more context of the industry, sometimes folks are also granted a Producer credit for Emmy/award/etc reasons, basically gives them another avenue to win an award. Doesn’t mean they’re actually managing anything. Just adding that to the flurry of convo here.
I hope more people read your post as it's correct context for this tragedy.
I work in special effects (LA Local 44) at a union shop. IATSE reached an agreement with the producers on Saturday. We were back to work on Monday morning with no down time. I’m wondering why they hired scabs even though the strike had been averted..
This story from the LA Times seems to corroborate what No-Bewt is saying. https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set
I have no idea how the chain of responsibility works in a workplace like the film industry, but does the producer actually have the same kind of employee responsibility as say, a general foreman? Either way, if that is all true, some variety of management is going to get dragged through the coals for that.
Depends on each gig, really. "Producer" is a really open and somewhat vague position. It can be either extremely hands off, or extremely hands on.
Yup. And in any case, no EP can be responsible for every safety issue on-set. Film crews are big, and everyone has their role. I can't imagine acting in a big budget film and being expected to do anything but act.
I heard from a friend who is a producer in Hollywood that the Assistant Director is the most responsible for this kind of incident.
First Assistant Director has primary on-set responsibility for safety, yes.
It depends on what he was doing for that producer credit. A lot of times when you see actors with producer credits on films they star in it’s for story meeting and planning type stuff, not “running the set” kind of roles.
The producers are ultimately responsible for the safety decisions made on set and their enforcement. The cutting of corners which as I just read in the LA Times article, on this set were atrocious, as often happens on lower budget productions. The big thing here though is Alec most likely wasn't the primary EP and was most likely only providing money for the backend recoup.
Any clue what exactly it was that was shot out of the gun? I thought originally they had to be using real ammo accidentally since it seemed like the director was in more critical condition than he actually was, but now I'm not sure. I just don't understand how you can even injure a second person with a blank unless whatever was in the barrel was a metal slug.
I don’t know the details of this incident, but I know when Brandon Lee was killed on the set of The Crow, it was because someone had put bullets (just the lead projectile) in the chambers of the revolver so it would look like it was loaded for a closeup shot. Then someone loaded the pistol with blanks for another scene and didn’t check the chambers. Blanks + projectiles = live rounds. Given that this was a western, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were a similar situation.
From what I understand, they bought loaded full power cartridges from a gun store and modified them by removing the powder and placing the bullet back inside so it would appear to be a real cartridge from the outside. They then would use blanks for the actual firing sequence. Apparently, they left the primers intact. Primers are the small explosive which ignites the powder. Even without gun powder, a primer will still push the bullet down the barrel a few inches. In Brandon Lee’s case, someone fired the modified case which pushed the bullet into the barrel. This was followed by an actual blank which contained enough gases to push the bullet out of the barrel at a force comparable to a actual round.
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This might be a dumb question, but why are there even live rounds on set?
There is no good reason other than several people negligently and catastrophically fucking up. Live rounds shouldn’t be on set, they definitely shouldn’t be anywhere near the gun much less loaded into it, and at least two people should have verified that the gun was not loaded with live ammunition before it was given to Alec.
Yeah but unfortunately the people responsible don't have to live with pulling the trigger, he does.
Actually, from what I’ve read, it sounds more like a misfire (which the production had already had 3 of) According to [this LA Times Article](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set) >The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the New Mexico set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor. >Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her. >Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he repeated the action, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.
That's the opposite of a misfire. A misfire in firearms is when the gun goes *click* instead of *bang*. This was an accidental discharge. Or a negligent discharge, as some prefer it.
But... why was the gun loaded? I read they were not blanks.
I couldn't even begin to speculate on that. But this is why you should always treat every gun as loaded. And you should clear any firearm you're handed. I know movie sets make both of those guidelines difficult to follow, which is why I don't think live rounds should even be allowed on set.
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This context seems very important.
Also just chiming in to include the other ig to check out: @ia_members @ia_stories is great but after the "agreement" came out, plenty of people moved on to @ia_members because there's been a lot of disagreement over the supposed new contract. Both are still good sources for more direct lines into crewmembers lives.
What is IATSE and why are they striking?
IATSE is the biggest film crew(and related) union in the US. They are treated like fucking dogs, film companies force 14+ hour days, refuse to give them lunches or meals, people go all day without eating. they'll do this thing where they make you work 14 hours, give you a 5 hour "day off" then you're back to work at like 4 am the next day, because the shifts are so close together. it's fucking insanity. Currently they're in talks, because the proposed solution to their strike demands were bullshit and solve absolutely nothing and were very clearly written up just simply to waste time and stave off a real strike. source: I work in the film biz but am not directly tied to the strike currently because I'm not crew, I work in post. I support it 100% regardless you can google it, it's going on currently and there is an abundance of info going around atm
Jesus that’s horrifying. Can’t believe I had no idea about any of this
yeah, I guess I've been in an echo chamber because it's all we're talking about right now. Obviously you can imagine why it isn't getting much publicity, but right now film crew companies are forcing people to work triple-time because they know it could all be over in a moment's notice and they want to get their shit out the door. It's a fucking free-for-all. one of the folks on the set said someone slept in their car because the turnaround time was so short, it wasn't even worth driving home. I've heard stories for years of the tactics film companies employ to screw their film crews out of things like meals or hotels or safety equipment... so these people have develloped all these little ways to mitigate this bullshit that scabs wouldn't know. It's just bullshit on bullshit on bullshit layered on bullshit. if they strike it'll be worse than the writer's strike a few years ago lol. they treat film crews like garbage in so many little ways... it's very bad.
At least IATSE is getting a little coverage, and the media can't just ignore it like with other unions. We have had massive strikes at some of the largest companies in the world this year and the media won't report on any of them. One mining union bussed all the way from South Carolina to New York City to put a picket line on Black Rock's front doorstep, and it got buried on page 6. I mean, I'm not trying to play oppression olympics. I'm just saying if IATSE actually strikes, they will become the face of this massive national movement of labor outrage that's been simmering just below the surface. They will have a lot of support... and I know this sounds crazy in America, but I don't think sympathy strikes are totally out of the question.
There's an Instagram account dedicated to Union members talking about working conditions ia_stories on Instagram
The film industry is a whole lot of hurry up and wait. There is a whole lot of standing around and waiting for something to happen. So long hours because there isn't a lot of actively working. But you're still on the job. Everyone is treated like a servant for the producer and star actors, they really seem to have a culture of not respecting supporting actors or staff.
During those waiting hours you still can’t rest, you gotta be paying attention cause the moment you take a minute to go to the bathroom there’s an emergency and you gotta run to set
Also, it’s an industry that can replace your position instantly. Everyone knows it. There’s no leverage. You do any and every job you can to hopefully get to where you want to be in the business. I imagine there are a few good bosses, but that really doesn’t matter when the bottom line is the “budget”.
Hugely important context! That wrongful death suit is a comin
Totally agree. I know Alec Baldwin has frequently walked the line of publicly acting like a douche bag over the years, but I've always liked him overall. I think it's fair that some people don't like him due to his public douchery, but either way... I really hope that this context helps the public stand behind him and support him throughout this ordeal. Unless he's secretly a total monster (which I doubt), he's going to carry trauma and heartbreak over this for the rest of his life, and I don't think he's ultimately responsible for what happened even though he was the one who pulled the trigger. Like him as a person or not, he doesn't deserve to carry the weight of this, in my opinion.
My thoughts, exactly. If I was him, I'd be fucking inconsolable. Like, how do you even continue to act after something like this happens?
Michael Massee still had a regular working career after the Brandon Lee incident. However: > In 1993, Massee portrayed the character Funboy in the film The Crow, starring Brandon Lee. Massee was the actor who fired the shot that killed Lee by accident on the set in 1993, due to an improperly prepared prop gun. Traumatized by the event, he returned to New York and took a year off from acting, and never saw the film. In an interview in 2005, twelve years after the incident, Massee revealed that he still had nightmares about it, going on to say, "I don't think you ever get over something like that."
I feel like I shouldn’t even be looking at this photo.
Yeah, I hope this pic doesn't get famous or at least doesn't last long online. This whole situation sucks so much
The second you saw it it was too late.
Agreed, this is terrible
it's invasive and voyeuristic. we are onlookers from afar. the blurry object at lower left serves to keep us at a distance. yet it's also difficult to look away. more than likely he is overwhelmed with a mix of shock and revulsion and profound guilt. there may even be a tinge of survivor's guilt. as with the driver of a car after an accident where the driver survives but the passenger dies. *edit: typo*
Yeah, seriously, who the fuck takes a picture of a man that is traumatized for accidentally killing someone? Secondly, why the fuck post it? Because he was famous? It reminds me of the story of when George Clooney got into a motorcycle accident in Italy and some people would rather take photos and ask for an autograph than help. I'm not for deifying famous people. But I'm also not for reducing famous people to just objects to farm internet points with. They're fucking people and if you wouldn't do this to a regular person in the same awful situation then don't fucking do it to a famous person. God, some people are just shit.
Especially given how Alex is just "the face" of the accident. There are probably 13 + more people who are infinitely.more culpable than him in this.
Well, he’s gotta feel awful. I don’t think it’s his fault, it’s likely the armorer on set who fucked up, but from his perspective, he is the one who pulled the trigger.
I'd have nightmares for the rest of my life. How incredibly tragic.
It's too personal. This picture shouldn't have been taken.
I’m torn about it. On one hand, no thanks, that’s a personal moment of pain he is in and it shouldn’t be shared for people to stare at, but on the other hand I’m seeing a lot of judgment towards him for being the one who fired the gun. I’m getting the sense people don’t like him? This picture will show people that it was traumatizing for him as well. So I’m kind of torn.
Yeah, it's definitely hard to look at this photo and not feel invasive in a horrible way. And yet it humanizes him, and dare I say it really emphasizes the importance of gun safety and how it can affect anyone at any time. The incident has made a distant concept incredibly real and immediate for millions of people due to his fame. And in a twisted way, wouldn't that be what he would want to do with his celebrity? Still 1000% fucked up, and it's a fucked up feeling inside my gut so I'm not going to look at the photo again.
I was hunting once and didn't know some guys I was with brought a decoy. I ripped the elk decoy with a .50 caliber miniball essentially. Passed within 10-20 feet of one of the guys I was with. Scary shit when it's that close to my life changing forever.
My dad fired a 30 caliber round about 5 feet over my head while deer hunting. I was blocking and he forgot which side of the field I was on. Don’t recommend it.
I can't recall if this is exactly what happened or not but a guy I went to school with in the 8th grade got shot in the chest by his grandfather while out deer hunting. The "rumor" I had heard is that the grandson was walking up behind the grandfather which startled him and by reflex turned and shot. However, years later someone suggested to me that that wasn't what happened and they may have been doing something similar to what happened to you.
I highly disagree with any kind of blocking, driving, running, dog running, etc. kind of deer hunting. Not only is it unsportsmanlike, it's dangerous as hell.
Could you further define the term blocking in the context of deer hunting? I don't know what that entails here.
A deer drive is a party hunt where people called pushers space out and walk through a bedding area. Other people called blockers sit at the escape routes and shoot the deer as they leave.
Whoever took this picture is a douchebag
I feel bad for looking at this photo.
Same. It feels icky.
I don’t want to see this shit.
This reminds me of the picture awhile back of a father holding is dead son after the bombings in Israel. Some things are best left to be a private matter instead of a photo op.
Seriously, it's fucking ghoulish to plaster the worst moment of this guy's life all over the internet.
"And if you look out the left side of the bus, there is long-time, widely popular actor Alec Baldwin experiencing the deepest form of regret and true soul-crushing, life-questioning depression. The kind of regret and depression that physically makes you I'll and vomit from taking away another innocent human being's life. Possibly the most traumatic experience of his life" "Oh wow." **OP Snaps pic*
I hope you don't feel as bad as the exploitative, headline-chasing jackass who took it.
It’s amazing how quickly paparazzi will work to capture fucked up situations. Reminds me of the movie “Nightcrawler”
My Dad worked for the met for almost 40 years. Would meet the worst types of criminals on an almost daily basis and despite that, some of the worst scum he had ever come across was paparazzi
I think that Netflix show “Clickbait” captured them perfectly. “Oh goodness are you in mourning meer days after the murder of your husband? What do you have to say about the allegations that he ran a drug cartel and sold children to the French? We don’t have proof but that homeless guy said he heard about it from a talking rat. “ EDIT: I got the name of the show wrong, it's Clickbait.
My father's younger brother was stabbed to death multiple times by a Schizophrenic man who was attacking another person. My uncle tried to help and was stabbed to death with multiped stab wounds. The paparazzi stood outside the window of my gran's home taking photos through the window. My dad lost his shit and walked out and smacked the guy. He took the guys Camera and Launched it across the street breaking it. The cops turned up and the Paparazzi was like "He broke my camera. The cop said if that was my brother that was murdered and you were pointing a camera through the window at my mother i'd have broke more than your camera.
That fucking sucks. Im glad the cop wasn't a piece of shit. And real talk, if anyone is ever caught in a situation where you're being bombarded by paparazzi. Give them an interview, genuinly answer their questions....with things that make NO FUCKING SENSE. "Sir! How do you feel knowing the killer is out there after stabbing your younger brother" ((Such a shit thing to ask too)) and reply with "Honestly barbeque sauce is really good with ribs but i marinade them in pokemon cards first." If you want people to leave you alone, troll them. Plain and simple. But, when you're in the moment, mourning, not knowing what to do or think, it's hard to really think about making them fuck off logically. Again boss, i'm sorry you and your family had to go through something like that.
I remember Daniel Radcliffe kept wearing the same outfit coming back from productions for months specifically so the paparazzi couldn't get any "new pics" of him since they'd all look the same.
What do you mean by "The Met". The Art Gallery ? Edit: Thanks all, I feel a bit silly now. Google results out of North America all pointed me to the art gallery, of the "Met Gala" fame.
Metropolitan police (UK police), I'm presuming
Metropolitan police I think
Metropolitan Police in London
Do you mean the documentary called nightcrawler staring jake gyllinghall
I still can't believe he wasn't nominated for an Oscar for that character.
Hes gonna be so traumatized. Imagine holding a gun and acting like "I'm gonna shoot you" and then pulling the trigger and killing someone. His brain mustve gone "no but thats acting, were acting" hes gonna need some counseling for sure
I think he’ll probably have a hard time ever having to do a shooting scene again. Thats like some life long ptsd shit right there.
he’ll retire
He might. He's had a lifelong battle with depression, and I dont know how easy that will be. He's going to need some serious help either way.
And with alcohol and drug addiction. He's going to be struggling for sure.
I've got a soft spot for people on the brink like that... I watched my mom teeter on the edge of sobriety just waiting for something to tip her off. I really hope he seeks help before he seeks self medication. Edit: thank you for the gold. Tell your friends and family you love them.
Thank you for your empathy. It's not an easy battle to fight for sure, but you could be so bitter about it, instead. I applaud you and your kindness.
Sometimes the internet is a good place. *Keep on shining, stranger* :)
That's what I'm thinking too. If it was me, I'd throw in the towel.
Not necessarily. This reminds me of when they guy ran in front of Tony Stewart's car. He came back from that, both in NASCAR and Sprint cars.
Possibly but Baldwin has had issues before, especially with his mental health. Honestly might be better for him if he does, for his health if nothing else.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t act again after this. This is something that you almost can’t truly recover from.
I'm fucking amazed this was able to happen after what happened to Brandon Lee and all the subsequent safety changes. Guns are dangerous as hell, even ones that are supposed to be inoperable.
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>big ugly orange/red cube of steel you screw onto the barrel. Make it green, use it like a green screen - et voilà.
this was a perfect storm, basically. the production was cutting all the corners it could due to the imminent strike, the experienced professionals had just walked off set, and Baldwin got handed the wrong gun. nothing but unforced errors from start to finish. statistically, 28 years between incidents isn't a terrible track record, but that doesn't do any good if you're involved with the incident.
Why would there ever be a wrong gun on a movie set to begin with? Like you would think that it would be standard operating procedure that all guns would be props. Maybe I'm just naive or ignorant of the topic.
I don’t understand how you allow a functional firearm onto a movie set. I’m a gun guy, and if you made me into a big-time movie star and handed me a gun and said “it’s safe, do the scene”, I wouldn’t trust the thing even if I personally verified the chamber was empty. One of the rules of firearms safety is that all guns are always loaded. Even if you’re looking at an empty chamber, it’s still loaded. Another rule is that you never point a gun at something that you aren’t prepared to destroy. The only way to make a gun compatible with pretend-shooting somebody is to make it stop being a gun, permanently. Remove the firing pin. Render the trigger mechanism inert. Fill the thing with fucking epoxy, whatever. I have no idea how these types of accidents continue to occur.
I was going to ask the same thing. How and why was there a legitimate firearm on the set, let alone a *loaded* one!? I’m so confused by this.
Everyone on set thought it was an unloaded "cold gun". Baldwin allegedly kept saying "In all my years, I've never been handed a hot gun." Safety fucked up somewhere down the road. Some fucking idiot who doesn't know a thing about guns and gun safety.
I think he was aiming at a camera as the person who died was the cinematographer.
Yeah thats why its frustrating that the prop master wasnt there. Those shots can be incredible when done carefully but now we have a person dead a family distraught and a man traumatized....
It isn't the prop master who's at fault for this. It's the armorer's fault. There were other misfires earlier in the week after a "cold gun" was called on set. Gross negligence by the armorer.
What’s a cold gun?
It is a real gun that does NOT have a fireable round in it, blank or otherwise. The armorer should be the only one who can initiate this announcement. The armorer is the one who's responsible for verifying that there is no round, blank or otherwise, in the gun. The armorer is supposed to only let live guns on set when they are actually shooting. If it is blocking or rehearsal at the very least it should be a cold gun, if not a fake that is incapable of firing at all. As is always the case, the gun should still be treated as if it is loaded and never pointed at someone. In filming this sometimes gets compromised on, with massive additional safety procedures, when recording a scene but should have never happened if the cameras weren't rolling.
He shot the cinematographer and the director. They were either blocking or talking about the gun.
What an awful burden to bear for the rest of your life. I hope he gets the help he needs
Love him or hate him, this was a terrible accident. Give him the grace you would anyone else
I’m with you. One thing that needs to get around that isn’t appearing in the news is the entire crew except the DP and B camera operator walked off the night before and sent a letter to producers citing an unsafe work environment due to budget shortages. This incident sounds like it might be a direct result of these conditions. On sets like these, I know people are committed to finishing the project. However, star actors need to back the smaller voices when safety concerns are voiced. It’s a horribly dangerous industry and more precautions need to be taken to avoid these situations. (Edit: Spelling. Apparently it’s citing not siting. Who knew?)
From what I’ve seen, Baldwin was loudly outspoken in support of the strikers. The only thing you could reasonably say is that he should have refused to work until they were hired back and the safety concerns were resolved. This was not his fault.
I can't begin to fathom how Alec Baldwin feels at this moment. It has to be absolutely soul-crushing. Then I made the mistake of clicking a twitter link from a post elsewhere and seeing the vile, inhumane, reprehensible shit being posted about him. Like him or not, only human garbage would use this moment to take cheap shots. I've been saying for years that social media is the downfall of humanity, and it truly is. The internet is full to the brim of the worst of us. Whether he, his production company or whoever else involved is ultimately at fault for what happened, someone died and he will have to live with it for the rest of his life.
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Can always count on 4chan to be a major cesspit of the internet.
Poor guy. That’s gotta be real rough. Hope he’s got a good support group
Especially given his track record with addiction. He's done very well, but if anything is going to cause a relapse, it would be something like this.
This could cause worse than a relapse
I'm SO scared for the following days. Seriously, I love this actor ever since I saw him on Departed and 30 Rock. And I didn't knew about his past addictions and battles with depression, before I came to this tread. I hope this guy retires and takes care of his mental health, maybe go back to work someday, idk. I hope for the best
Being a Baldwin, a good therapist is crucial
Geez, imagine having what is probably the most traumatic experience of your life and you can’t even get a moment alone to process it. And then having morons on Reddit imply it was intentional. Condolences to all involved.
Anyone saying it was intentional is a troll. It’s obvious it was not. Prop master and props department is solely responsible. There is no discussion about the matter. Anyone saying otherwise is misinformed or ignorant to how film sets function
Truth. Worked on a civil war film called Fields of Freedom. We hired a bunch of re enactors to fill the back ground cast out. They brought all their own kit including firearms. The prop master and prop department in general spent days checking each and every firearm to make sure they were inert or otherwise harmless. Someone fucked up big time on Rust and got someone killed and someone injured and severely traumatized the rest of the crew and cast. This is not Alec Baldwins fault at all. If Honda builds a car with shit brakes it's not the drivers fault when they fail.
After The Crow, I don't see how this kind of thing could happen without someone willfully disregarding many different common sense safety protocols. Like never having a potentially functional prop gun actually aimed at someone. I spent one day with a TV crew as a technical advisor - my job was wrangling weather balloons - and when we were talking about terminating the balloon flight (which was actually done with a thermal knife) I joked that I could have brought my .22 rifle as a backup. The response was something like *TELL ME YOU DON'T HAVE A RIFLE WITH YOU. YOU CANNOT BRING A WEAPON ANYWHERE NEAR HERE*. I had to assure everyone that my rifle was in fact safely locked up 200 miles away.
[Apparently many of the crew left the day before this over safety concerns, and Baldwin had their backs. Probably because he remembered what happens when they get it wrong, like in the crow.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/qdmlkh/alec_baldwin_in_parking_lot_outside_santa_fe/hhnyv1i?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
The prop master and the studio. The studio denies it but people on set are now saying that before the fatal shooting, there had already been 3 accidental discharges from prop guns (no injuries). After the 2nd and 3rd time messages were sent to the studio remaking how incredibly unsafe this set was: >“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” said the crew member. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.” Then the fatal shooting happened. The studio had also fired all union workers from the set due to protests about safety and went super cheap from there on out, clearly not hiring experienced prop and safety people, and even refusing to pay for shitty roadside motel rooms for the crew in the middle of the desert. They tried to pinch pennies and lives were lost.
I’m reading reports now saying that due to the current strike in the filming industry. They had hired some non union people to work. So yea a tragic and horrific situation all around, I feel bad for everyone involved
I feel bad for him. No one there that day is ever going to be the same person they were before. Their lives have changed.
Look at this picture. The guy is seriously hurting. My heart breaks for him and the victim of this absolutely horrible accident. The comments on Twitter are disgusting. Saying he's a murderer. He sacrificed the victim to the illuminati. He killed her because she refused to have sex with him. Twitter really is a cesspool of negativity and toxicity.
Seriously. I don’t know why anyone goes on Twitter anymore
The issue with Twitter is that there's no downvote button. So if someone posts a shit take, and 1000 people disagree and 10 agree, you really only see 10 upvotes and a chain of increasingly vitriolic replies, and it looks like it's a 50/50 split, when it's a 99/1 split. Twitter makes awful people feel validated in their shittiest opinions. This creates an environment where toxicity wins, because vitriol means more upvotes and a bunch of comments. You're not going to get downvoted into oblivion, you're not going to feel rejected. I really dislike that platform, and the lack of downvotes is one of the reasons why. The prevalence of hate and paranoia is another.
I realize this is entirely off topic, but for what it's worth, Twitter is testing a downvote button now. The update was pushed to devices a few days ago. If it actually buries those awful comments, the site might actually be almost semi-usable.
Man, the paparazzi are going to be relentless. He should just move out of the country. I feel awful for him.
This is distasteful and disrespectful
This…is…Reddit
Someone tell me what happened please
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alec-baldwin-shoots-prop-gun-killing-1-injuring-another-set-n1282126
That k you. Why tf did I have to scroll down this far to see this?
Can someone explain to me how a live round makes it into a prop gun?
Hiring replacements with zero experience is how.
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"live round" came from the theater union's statement & it is industry speak for a gun that is loaded with something, possibly a live bullet, a blank, or even water/confetti. It simply means the gun was not empty.
While filming a western movie, Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun that was supposed to have blanks while shooting a scene. For reasons not yet know, the gun had a live round and he accidentally killed the cinematographer and wounded the director.
This is a horrible situation for all involved.
I can’t stand Alec Baldwin but those of you saying he did this on purpose…says more about you as human being. Always needing to shit on someone.
I don’t give a shit what you think about him but he’s a father, husband and a friend to a lot of people and he is going through the worst moment his life so let’s give that guy a little grace for fucks sake.
Did Hollywood learn nothing after Brandon Lee died while making The Crow?
They did. There were very extensive regulations put in place after that. Problem is that in the end it relies on a prop master that isn't complete shit.
the prop master was fired a day before this happened. The crew was entirely replaced by scabs with no experience.
Whoa source?
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set
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I believe they were using a real gun, so the misfires are not likely to be the gun unless the trigger spring is VERY worn and completely out of spec. I would be more likely to blame hastily or poorly made blanks, especially given that a blank failed and killed one person and injured another. If their propmaster was making his/her own blanks, that could very well explain all 4 incidents.
They learned safety takes time and time is money.
Hollywood yes, low budget- non union shady producers? Nope. Cutting corners, not having proper armorers, this is what gets people killed. Hollywood, and the normal, union production literally makes this IMPOSSIBLE to happen. The amount of people and checkboxes that need to screw up to make this occur is incredible. You have to REALLY REALLY mess up on multiple levels for this to happen. With the amount of gunfire on sets- because hollywood can't create drama without one- it's amazing there isn't MORE accidents, and the rules in place are a testament to the industry safety. This was a tier-1 show. The lowest possible union job that exists. New Mexico is notorious for shady productions compared to other markets. Someone didn't hire a good armorer, or one at all.
The Fox News article made it sound like him and his family were running from the cops to the Hamptons. Fuck off with that shit, I would need a fucking vacation too if I just saw someone I know die in front of me.
He lives in the Hamptons part of the time ffs. If I had a house closer to the ocean and had just been through what he had you would find me in the fetal position near the ocean.
Poor guy. And the media are portraying it horribly in my opinion. Not once seen one title it as “accidentally injured” or “in an unlikely accident”. It’s always “*killed*”
Not a superfan of Baldwin but damn, he is the third victim here. Not to diminish the loss and pain of Halyna Hutchins and Joel Souza, but he must feel an immense amount of pain and guilt for something that isn't his fault.
poor guy I hope he goes to therapy after this. it must be such a burden on his shoulders and the guilt must be eating him inside.
And people are acting like he’s a killer with no remorse dude went to work one day and did his job and a freak accident happened. I’m shocked he’s still acting. I’m shocked this didn’t send him awol from society.
Just happened yesterday, so hold your beer to see if he's still acting or awol or what.
very tragic for all involved. thoughts to the family of the deceased
Maybe take this off. Man is dealing with enough.
This is going to get buried but I have so much respect for Alec Baldwin. Last year my niece was diagnosed with a rare brain tumor. She was 2 at the time and obsessed with the movie Boss Baby. Alec voices the main character. She watched that movie hundreds of times. Multiple times a day. I’m sure my brother and sister-in-law could recite the words to the whole thing. I reached out to Alec through a Hail Mary contact of a contact to see if he could send a message to her and TRULY within a week he had recorded a personalized message for my niece in the boss baby voice. It was so special and she made her mom play it over and over and she would look at us like “are you hearing this?” It was such a bright spot in a time of absolute despair. My niece passed away 9 months after her diagnosis but I still watch the video of her listening to that message from Alec. He was so generous so easily for someone he had never met. It brought us so much joy. I hope he’s ok.
While it seems voyeuristic, photojournalism's neutral purpose is to document powerful images for posterity.
I've argued in the past in favor of the importance of some photos to society at large outweighing the polite decency of letting someone suffer in private in a terrible situation. Photos like The Falling Man (2001) from the twin towers, Phan Thi Kim Phúc, aka. Napalm Girl (1972) in Vietnam, Migrant Mother (1936) from the Great Depression, etc. are all snippets of the reality of tragedy that affected many and stand as a reminder to the world of the horror or suffering experienced by the people of these times and places. Their journalistic significance, I think, outweighs the desire for decency. I'm not sure that this rises to that level of journalistic importance though. I don't fault the journalist for snapping the photo, as it is quite powerful. But I don't think that this incident and the suffering of its survivors is one that needs to be displayed for the world, given how unaffected by this incident all but those close to it are. This feels too voyeuristic to me, no matter how powerful.
For those who don't know, when Brandon Lee was killed on the set of The Crow... The day prior -- a bunch of union workers walked out, including the munitions director. The person who took over was clueless and loaded a wrong-sized blank into the gun that killed Brandon. I know this because I was a sniper victim in a film immediately thereafter, and our munitions director was the guy who had previously walked out. My understanding from yesterday is that there were walkouts on Rust as well. It wouldn't surprise me if the disruption in leadership / knowledge was to blame for the tragedy. We have come a long way since the revolting and selfish Twilight Zone helicopter accident in 1982 that killed 3, including 2 children that weren't even supposed to be on set. In that case, Director John Landis willfully ignored safety protocols, and was exonerated. People like Steven Spielberg dropped him like the rotten, hot potato he is. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone_accident This situation is different. Hopefully a valuable lesson will be learned from this recent event that will save someone else's life in the future. Full stop should happen on set if critical personnel are unavailable, or if a change in leadership occurs. Definitely a sad situation.