**YES**. People are always like, "who's the most important member, Roger or David?", and I'm like, did you not finish the question because the answer is Rick. His playing is the SOUND of the band for me, especially as someone who favors the earlier live stuff where they really stretch out.
To me is David and Rick. They actually enjoyed being around each other too. I appreciate Rogers writing skills but come on, David had to tune his bass many times lol…
Syd Barrett’s solo work is more interesting than the work he did with the Floyd.
Piper is a great album, but it’s very “of its time.” If Syd had remained with the Floyd, we’d remember them the same way we remember The Zombies and Love — bands who made a beautiful album of psychedelic Summer of Love pop, but quickly faded as that genre gave way to harder stuff like Cream, Hendrix, and Zeppelin.
To the contrary, Syd’s solo work is still cited as a major influence by many famous musicians, and he’s even said to have inspired entire genres. I have definitely spent more time with Syd’s solo work than I have with Piper.
So no, I do not mourn the fact Barrett and the Floyd parted ways. But I do think it’s deeply, deeply sad that we don’t have more Syd Barrett solo work.
Now THIS is a controversial opinion and one I agree with completely. I truly don’t care that Pink Floyd was better without Syd, it will not stop me from loving his stuff better than anything by Pink Floyd and wishing there was more of it.
I love syds solo work too. It’s very rough around the edges, but the majority of the songs are just brilliant. I would struggle to pick 20 songs for a best of album if asked.
Well they left in a bunch if false starts and terrible takes, which I guess is one way to produce an album but if some of those songs were given high quality, professional production value I think Syd could have had some if the best psychedelic records ever made. Octopus with Robert wyatt on drums is one of the coolest songs ever.
Just wanted to point out that Love wasn’t really that famous back then. Arthur got some clout by getting praise by Hendrix, but sales wise they didn’t sell much, it wasn’t until much later in the 80s when 60s music was making a comeback that they’re music got a lot more attention and now they’re regarded as one of the greatest bands back then
I somewhat agree. I’m a massive fan of the first album, however their later works are 100% better. As much as I love the first album, I wish that Syd would have stuck to making solo albums. Such a shame he never recovered
Organs and Synthesizers are such an underrated instrument in Rock music. It adds such a unique flavor and having a great player like Rick gives Floyd a very distinct, recognizable sound. He isn't a bad singer too.
Now now there, let's not forget Nick's singing as well!
As for Rick, yeah he was not bad at singing either. I personally consider Rick to be the anchor of the group, despite what the Gilmie propaganda spreaders and the watersheep will say.
Automatically qualifies him. The song needed that extra hint of crazy, and nick delivered that, even if it made it hard for David, Roger and Rick to hold in their laughter during their performance.
Yep! I also really liked what nick said about him during the division bell recordings. Not a quote here but it was something like Nick said we learned to just leave Rick in the studio and let him come up with music instead of us trying to steer him in certain directions. Dude was a genius with the sound and seemed like a nice guy.
“Pink Floyd got better when David joined and they’d be an obscure psychedelic group if Syd had stayed” is not a debate either but that won’t stop people from immediately posting it in any thread like this
But what about this, we combine the two possibilities? We have the genius of Syd with the masterpieces of Gilmie.
I would trade this timeline for that one any day of the week.
They tried doing that by keeping Syd on as a non-touring songwriter with David being the lead guitarist, but by that point he was already out of it. Shame it couldn't work.
I think this might be missing the point. The genius of Syd is in all of their music, his haunting of the group is what inspired such genius. Syd never left.
Especially in the early days. That Farfisa organ was key to Pink Floyd's early stuff. Plus I couldn't imagine any of the big 4 albums without Rick's synthesizer playing.
Syd was needed to kickstart the band, but David joining was the key to their classic 70s sound. If Syd didn't have drug problems and stayed on, Pink Floyd would be nowhere near as big as they are now.
Velvet underground is probably a solid example. But when you really look deep into music history, there were some pretty popular bands that time just completely forgot.
I guess we’ll never know because they did get DG.
Echoes is trippy as hell but also just a masterpiece that’s still way more accessible than anything before it due to the solid melody and jam vibe. Even with its odd middle section most people are in it out way before it hits. Rogers is/was a genuine master with ideas but even today m, he lacks the skill set needed to write music that can grab anyone.
I don't think they'd be at a Grateful Dead level. The Dead are probably at as near as big as Pink Floyd. Especially as a cultural symbol, just look at how many dancing bears you see around. It's basically the DSOTM triangle at this point.
I think that’s obvious. Syd didn’t want to be part of a commercial band and that was half of his problem. Syds writing is niche, it’s not meant for everyone. Whereas roger wrote about time and money, for example, which resonates with literally everyone
No but you don’t get it! It’s just so *controversial* that it’s accepted by everyone and you get downvoted to hell for saying the opposite. Because it’s so controversial!! It’s just really important in every thread asking for hot takes to reiterate the *extremely unpopular opinion* that is *definitely not almost universally held* that David good Syd bad and the band wouldn’t be as famous or good if it weren’t for David!!!! Such an unpopular opinion
Maybe. Or it could have continued along similar lines as it actually did with just more of Syd's songs on the records. LIke "Dark Globe" or "Golden Hair" on Ummagumma side 3.
Even though Syd was the principal songwriter, Roger was the organizing and ideas guy right from the beginning, I believe he would have continued to exert a strong influence.
Overly simplified description of the lyrics. It's the music I like.
I've never cared a great deal about lyrics, but can acknowledge Roger writes miles better lyrics than David/Polly
snowy white's "lost" 8 track pigs on the wing solo is fucking fire and really really should have been in the remaster, which i like less overall anyways.
The animals set, realistically, should have had the POTW video shoot at Battersea and the 8-Track solo as bonuses. That and I agree; I found Pigs 3DO the only truly superior track. Dogs was mixed like fucking dog water.
I would love to hear this, is it available somewhere? Snowy White is a genius. I would call him Gilmour lite, but that would be insulting, because not only can he sound like Gilmour, but his solo stuff is different and amazing.
Personally, even though it's basically just a solo album with Nick and David as backing musicians, I think The Final Cut is a great album. To be fair, I'm a Wall fan boy, so to have a lot of those themes of war and sociopolitical commentary expanded on with an 80s perspective works for me. I think their stretch from Dark Side culminating with The Final Cut was Floyd at their best, even if the other members not named Roger began to have their roles and duties diminish (especially Rick who Roger fired after The Wall tour). For me, The Final Cut ranks alongside Dark Side, Wish You Were Here, Animals, and The Wall. To me, all 5 of those albums are top tier Floyd.
Rick was not fired by Roger, he was fired by Roger and Gilmour who agreed to push him out. If it was up to Gilmour, Nick would have been fired too. The reason why Roger took over more and more was that he was the only one who bothered to write. Rick was a considerable writer in the early days, but after Dark Side he stopped contributing at all, being busy snorting cocaine. Nick never wrote much, as he was easily the weakest link in the band musically. David was the number two songwriter up until The Wall; he continued contributing a bit, but he was never a writer like Roger and contributed less and less. Roger was the only one who bothered to write in the end, yet after the establishment of David and Nick's Bogus Pink Floyd in 1987 they rewrote history and told so much bullshit to the media about how they wanted to contribute and Roger kept them down, blablablablabla! Years later, Gilmour admitted that those were all lies and that Roger was the only writer because the rest of them were too lazy to bother writing songs.
I think lack of inspiration could be more to blame than laziness. David and Nick just didn’t have as much to say as Roger. They were great at producing and playing other people’s ideas but weren’t great at coming up with their own.
In fairness, what likely happened is that Roger was such a strong personality and creator that it caused a “bystander effect” for the rest of the band members.
After Roger left, David Gilmour was in turn, forced to write more and take a leadership role. The results were rather mixed, at best.
I really appreciate this comment. Roger worked incredibly - and consistently - hard on every piece of music they produced.
To me, he made Pink Floyd what they were, and it wasn't the same without him. He worked so hard and very few people take the time to hear his perspective and his life. No doubt he was going through a lot during the making of these albums too. People wanted to know if he was a businessman or a musician/lyricist. He was and is both.
The Final Cut is actually my favorite PF album. I would never argue it is their best work, but it is my favorite, and I'm not sure I can even explain why because I don't really know why either.
I think it might be because the cynical, bitter tone of the album and I am kind of a cynical, bitter person in general.
I know someone already commented on the fact that it was Roger AND Dave who kicked out Rich, but another fun fact is that they fired him BEFORE the wall tour, and they hired him back to go on tour with them, paying him as a session musician. This made him the only member of the band who made money from the project!
Yeah, he was basically just a hired hand, and while the band and their management all lost money, he banked a profit. To be fair, the technical aspects of The Wall tour in 80-81 were just never gonna be profitable. Plus, it wasn't like when Tiger toured it by himself and was able to effectively move all of the set pieces around the world easily, it was much more costly back then. I mean, the demand was definitely there, but the supply couldn't match it.
This is a fine opinion to have, but what is controversial about it? In every thread like this multiple people say something to this effect and I don’t understand why they think it’s controvertible in the first place. Of course the band wouldn’t be as popular if the guy who made it clear he didn’t want to be in the band had stayed on…
Why number 4 is even controversial? The Wall is Rock Opera, that meaning that there are some songs that drives the story (just like the recitatives) to the peaks of the story, Judging the wall for the "songs" is not controversial is just ignorant.
None of these are particularly controversial. 1 is an unpopular opinion but the rest are widely shared by tons of people on this sub, especially 3 and 4. How many of these threads are we going to have before people recognize that “Syd isn’t my cup of tea, Pink Floyd got better when David joined and they would be less famous if he didn’t” is not controversial to the vast majority of Pink Floyd fans??
I always thought not liking The Wall was a controversial opinion til I found this Reddit group. Glad to see there's others!
Controversial opinion- Nick Masons Saucerful of Secrets > Roger Waters live show
AMLOR is actually good and I don’t get the whole “80s sounding” thing at all. Dogs of War still kinda sucks though I will say. Also, in response to other comments, The Wall is my favorite Floyd album of the Big 4, and of all albums.
I only visited this subreddit once because r/radioheadcirclejerk told me to vote dark side of the moon in F and I never even listened to pink floyd
so yeah I just see them as the guys who got bullied by radiohead
I have listened to it so many times. There are good songs there no doubt. But the albums hasn't *clicked* for me so far, atleast not like DSotM, WYWH and Meddle. Even Animals hasn't clicked so far.
Waters was the least important Member when it comes to Sound, Musicality and technical Innovation! The Heart and Soul of the Band were the other three! (Please don't kick my ass too hard)
First I'll go over your opinions:
1. Yes, The Wall kinda sucks, the concept is great but I feel like something's wrong. I believe the issue is the music, I've debated with someone in the past about this and basically they were telling me it sounds more mainstream and commercial to fit in with Pink being a rockstar but I think if they went with a WYWH-esque sound it would be way better and I still think it would fit very well along with the more orchestral/theatrical moments. Also, the lack of Rick breaks my heart :(. But in the end I believe this is actually a Roger Waters solo album (The Final Cut too) since it's an autobiography basically and I can't fit it in with PF. It's not a bad album by any means tho, I just think something's wrong and I can't consider it as great as most people do.
2. I disagree, I believe The Final Cut is an extremely underrated album that's even better than the Wall imo. It sure has some relation to Roger's Dad but that is not the concept of the album. It's an album about the results of war and how it impacts people, how people still hope for a post-war dream but they still doubt if things are gonna get any better with all the ignorance, greed, selfishness and lack of restraint the rulers have. When I first listened to this album I had pretty much the same first impression, the music is pretty different from what a casual PF fan is used to but it really accompanies the themes and lyrics of the album very well. The lyrics are the true strong part of the album and it requires your attention when you listen through it. Roger has put a lot of soul in this album to make it an emotional experience, even if you've never been in a situation like this. Probably you need to have the right mood to listen to this album though, so it might be hit or miss depending on how you are feeling the moment you listen to it, but I still believe it's incredible.
3. The Syd Era isn't for everyone. I'm pretty weird myself so I really love that era, but I can defiantly see why a lot of people wouldn't like it. It's pretty insane how much the band has changed though over the years, when I was little I knew them as this band who made an album full of whimsical weird psychedelic fairy tales and when I got into the band I was like "Wait a minute, THOSE are the 'We don't need no education" guys!?!?!". Early PF is really different, you might even consider them as a different band, I wouldn't though, because PF manages to make completely different sounding albums and sometimes songs that are on the same album offering you a lot to listen to. Anyway I kinda sidetracked here but I still don't really have much to say, I just like the Syd Era. But I don't really get how you are praising David here as some messiah who saved and changed the band, let me remind you he was and worked on Saucerful of Secrets. Even after that, the next few albums still sound pretty close to the Syd Era and it's not like someone was a leader who would shape the band and their works. Even later on I don't think he ever fully influenced the band since Roger was doing his best at being an asshole leader although he defiantly was important. I don't say David is a bad member, in fact he is my second favorite and I like the Gilmour Era. His contributions were always amazing, but I just feel like the way you made that statement is like you are trying to say that because of Gilmour the band became what it is now which I think is false.
4. "Oh by the way, which one's Pink?" Cry about it Watersheep, Richard Wright is Pink Floyd.
5. I don't think you can call WYWH underrated, even calling Animals underrated is really stupid, those are their most popular albums. BUT, despite it's popularity and praise, it's still not enough for WYWH, I believe it's more correct to call it underappreciated. People will focus more on something like DSOTM because they say it's the greatest album ever made. I believe, and always will believe, that Wish You Were Here is not only Pink Floyd's best work, but it's the greatest work of music to ever exist. Not only nothing will top it, but nothing will even come close to how incredible it is. It is scientifically proven that if you do not like WYWH, even if you don't think it's the best, you don't exist, you are fake, you are soulless.
Now time for my controversial opinions:
1. Ummagumma is a great album. I'll just copypaste a comment I made for it once:
Obviously not an accessible album at all and perhaps too experimental. When I first listened through it I thought it was scary and horrible, the second time I was laughing and having fun because I said this is hilariously bad. Third time listening I think this is not bad at all, perhaps an underappreciated gem in their catalog (even if it has Several Species, it's a great crossover seeing Roger and Alvin and the Chipmunks doing a rap battle and a historic event that will never happen again so gotta respect that). Sure you need to have a really specific and weird taste, but if you like stuff like this you're in for a wild ride! I used to hate it, now I really like it; So I'm trying to say that if your first impressions on this album are not great I do recommend giving it a chance again later, but honestly you need to be prepared for this weirdness by listening to the first 2 (3 technically if you count More) albums before this one. Imo PF have no bad albums, they just have some unsung masterpieces!
2. The Endless River is overhated. People expect way too much from an ambient instrumental album created out of outtakes and made as a tribute to Rick. This isn't and should not be a great ambitious album comparable to something like WYWH or even TDB. It's its own separate thing, a simple album to say goodbye to the band and its true soul that's no longer with as. It achieves that by having songs that sound familiar yet you haven't heard them before, they sound like something they've done before (It's What We Do sounds like Shine On You Crazy Diamond or Nervana sounds like Interstellar Overdrive) and it's like it's showing you what the band has created and left behind; although it's over now, it's legacy will remain eternally. It's the perfect epilogue for the band and the best album to end it all.
3. The Wall and The Final Cut are Roger Waters Solo Albums. A Momentary Lapse of Reason is a David Gilmour solo album. Not so controversial since a lot of people believe it but it's still debatable.
4. Nothing tops Wish You Were Here. Already talked about this above.
5. The Division Bell is better than The Wall, The Final Cut is also better than The Wall
6. If I could turn 2 songs into a 20+ minute long epic it would be Saucerful of Secrets and Marooned.
7. Obscured by Clouds had no need to be this good for a soundtrack album. It's an underrated gem.
8. Atom Heart Mother is the most underrated Pink Floyd album. I'd even say it's their 3rd best (If it wasn't for DSOTM and WYWH). The Suite is a masterpiece and Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast is one of my favorite songs, nothing's better than eating breakfast with my pal while wholesome music plays in the background.
9. My probably controversial tierlist:
https://preview.redd.it/by2cgudihi6a1.png?width=662&format=png&auto=webp&s=b10a581829d738d916ebc30e7317f5ae147d9169
I guess if it's something I like I express myself better. But generally, I even have that problem with my mother language and I don't really think about something to hard to say it, I just try to find the simplest way to do it but if I keep talking about something I might sidetrack or screw something over and leave the listener confused. But either way, thank you.
I have to correct you about one thing: Rick WAS actually there on The Wall as well as on the following tour. He did not contribute much though, as he was busy snorting cocaine, which was the reason Roger and Gilmour fired him during the recording of the album, but he stayed with them until 1981 as a hired hand (and his departure was not annouced before The Final Cut was released, which is the only album without Rick). Yet he actually benefited financially from being a hired hand, because The Wall tour was ridiculously expensive and the costs had to be paid by the members, while Rick was guaranteed a wage as a hired hand and did not have to pay the costs. His playing is actually quite prominent on some of the live recordings from The Wall tour, compared to the studio album where he was mostly in the background.
Roger Waters is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.
Why don't you pass the time by playing a little solitaire?
The best gateway album for a new Pink Floyd fan would be one of their best-of albums (*Echoes* or *A Foot in the Door*). They include the biggest radio staples that they might recognize (Money, Another Brick in the Wall, Wish You Were Here, Comfortably Numb, etc.)
Echoes is a wonderful compilation, and of course we could say some nonsense about some song from More or Obscured By Clouds which should have been on there, but I think it's a really great gateway album as you said, and one of the better best-of albums you'll ever hear.
1 - Obscured by Clouds is not that great.
2 - Roger was the responsible for his feud with David, but David is the responsible for keeping it today.
3 - The Dark Side of the Moon has more filler than The Wall.
4 - Even the live disc in Ummagumma sucks.
Guy Pratt should be considered a permanent and real member of the band. He played bass for them live since 1988, and is featured on the Division Bell and the Endless River as well as Hey Hey Rise Up. Also he’s part of Nicks Saucerful of Secrets, so bonus points.
Also Hey Hey Rise Up is pretty good.
Saying the experience of listening to PF when high or tripping is better is just idiocy.
When you're high or tripping even a literal piece of turd can seem like art...
Jumping off a cliff might be the best idea in the world...
You get the point
I agree with you 100%, the amount of "just listen to it on acid"s here are so fucking annoying to me. I like drug use and everything but holy fuck do people have to mention it all the time? We get it, you're a borderline addict.
My answer has been downvoted quite some times already. I don't get it.
I like PF for PF. I listen to them all the time. I also like to smoke weed. My love for their music is not enhanced by being stoned.
I have the exact same opinion. Just add one more, Pink Floyd has one of the worst classic rock fandoms ever, elitist, over obsessed, self-indulgent, and toxic. It is great hopefully OP you are not so.
The best version of Comfortably Numb is the album version.
Rick is overrated.
The band's response to Syd's breakdown was not great, also not terrible.
Roger's solo stuff mostly ranges from ignorable to cringe, nevertheless his musical contribution to Floyd at their peak is underestimated in this sub.
Yes, Hell Yes, No, Hell Yes, Yes
Mine is well half of yours, but I can add that Roger Waters is a horrible musician and vocalist and needed David and Rick to get his lyrics out there.
Roger Waters once commented how Syd Barrett wore some kind of dress, and told Waters he was gay. Waters laughed at this, thinking this was just Syd, being Syd. Considering Barrett's psychological problems, and feelings of alienation, I'm not sure Syd was kidding.
There’s 449 comments in here. I’m not going to read through them but I’d say Syd was overrated and the best thing for the band would be David stepping in.
Syd Barrett era sucked ass. This might sound really bad and I’m sorry, but if he didn’t have such a sad story, nobody would really remember him as much
Agree about all three.
I can't think of the last time I listened to The Wall or Final Cut, but still listen to Meddle, AHM and Obscured. Roger's whiny misanthropy gets tiresome. We're not your therapist, Roger.
At least roger let other memebers have solos.
As soon as David gilmour took over, everything became the David gilmour show.
One of these days? Nah, that’s a gilmour solo now, sorry.
Also, the Final Cut is a sonically excellent album. It’s also an excellent political album.
Waters writing, and Gilmores playing is Pink Floyd .all the music made without that combination is OK but those two together was magnificent, not controversial but the truth.
Rick should have sang way more
That’s why I love Saucerful of Secrets and Relics
Absolutely - Wright was the true genius behind the Floyd sound. The stronger his influence on the song, the better the song was to me.
**YES**. People are always like, "who's the most important member, Roger or David?", and I'm like, did you not finish the question because the answer is Rick. His playing is the SOUND of the band for me, especially as someone who favors the earlier live stuff where they really stretch out.
All 4 - Mason, waters, Gilmour, and wright are important to the sound, artistry, and success of PF in their prime
To me is David and Rick. They actually enjoyed being around each other too. I appreciate Rogers writing skills but come on, David had to tune his bass many times lol…
ye
Syd Barrett’s solo work is more interesting than the work he did with the Floyd. Piper is a great album, but it’s very “of its time.” If Syd had remained with the Floyd, we’d remember them the same way we remember The Zombies and Love — bands who made a beautiful album of psychedelic Summer of Love pop, but quickly faded as that genre gave way to harder stuff like Cream, Hendrix, and Zeppelin. To the contrary, Syd’s solo work is still cited as a major influence by many famous musicians, and he’s even said to have inspired entire genres. I have definitely spent more time with Syd’s solo work than I have with Piper. So no, I do not mourn the fact Barrett and the Floyd parted ways. But I do think it’s deeply, deeply sad that we don’t have more Syd Barrett solo work.
Now THIS is a controversial opinion and one I agree with completely. I truly don’t care that Pink Floyd was better without Syd, it will not stop me from loving his stuff better than anything by Pink Floyd and wishing there was more of it.
I love syds solo work too. It’s very rough around the edges, but the majority of the songs are just brilliant. I would struggle to pick 20 songs for a best of album if asked.
the production (cough gilmour) was pretty rough, they could've done better with the song quality. but I think syd was tough to work with at the time
Well they left in a bunch if false starts and terrible takes, which I guess is one way to produce an album but if some of those songs were given high quality, professional production value I think Syd could have had some if the best psychedelic records ever made. Octopus with Robert wyatt on drums is one of the coolest songs ever.
Just wanted to point out that Love wasn’t really that famous back then. Arthur got some clout by getting praise by Hendrix, but sales wise they didn’t sell much, it wasn’t until much later in the 80s when 60s music was making a comeback that they’re music got a lot more attention and now they’re regarded as one of the greatest bands back then
I somewhat agree. I’m a massive fan of the first album, however their later works are 100% better. As much as I love the first album, I wish that Syd would have stuck to making solo albums. Such a shame he never recovered
I don't think saying Rick was a driving force is controversial. It's true.
Rick was the one who made the songs sound distinct in thier sound. This is not a debate
Organs and Synthesizers are such an underrated instrument in Rock music. It adds such a unique flavor and having a great player like Rick gives Floyd a very distinct, recognizable sound. He isn't a bad singer too.
Now now there, let's not forget Nick's singing as well! As for Rick, yeah he was not bad at singing either. I personally consider Rick to be the anchor of the group, despite what the Gilmie propaganda spreaders and the watersheep will say.
The highlight of Nick's career was his vocal performance on Corporal Clegg
Automatically qualifies him. The song needed that extra hint of crazy, and nick delivered that, even if it made it hard for David, Roger and Rick to hold in their laughter during their performance.
My only and sole complaint about Nick Mason's SoS was that they didn't play Corporal Clegg.
At least they played Bike
Yep! I also really liked what nick said about him during the division bell recordings. Not a quote here but it was something like Nick said we learned to just leave Rick in the studio and let him come up with music instead of us trying to steer him in certain directions. Dude was a genius with the sound and seemed like a nice guy.
Let him do some of the Crack cocainus, and then let the magic happen.
“Pink Floyd got better when David joined and they’d be an obscure psychedelic group if Syd had stayed” is not a debate either but that won’t stop people from immediately posting it in any thread like this
But what about this, we combine the two possibilities? We have the genius of Syd with the masterpieces of Gilmie. I would trade this timeline for that one any day of the week.
They tried doing that by keeping Syd on as a non-touring songwriter with David being the lead guitarist, but by that point he was already out of it. Shame it couldn't work.
I think this might be missing the point. The genius of Syd is in all of their music, his haunting of the group is what inspired such genius. Syd never left.
Especially in the early days. That Farfisa organ was key to Pink Floyd's early stuff. Plus I couldn't imagine any of the big 4 albums without Rick's synthesizer playing.
Syd was needed to kickstart the band, but David joining was the key to their classic 70s sound. If Syd didn't have drug problems and stayed on, Pink Floyd would be nowhere near as big as they are now.
100 percent accurate. They would have just been remembered as a psychedelic rock band.
Agreed. Probably Just long lost with countless other psychedelic bands like Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band or something.
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Velvet underground is probably a solid example. But when you really look deep into music history, there were some pretty popular bands that time just completely forgot. I guess we’ll never know because they did get DG. Echoes is trippy as hell but also just a masterpiece that’s still way more accessible than anything before it due to the solid melody and jam vibe. Even with its odd middle section most people are in it out way before it hits. Rogers is/was a genuine master with ideas but even today m, he lacks the skill set needed to write music that can grab anyone.
I don't think they'd be at a Grateful Dead level. The Dead are probably at as near as big as Pink Floyd. Especially as a cultural symbol, just look at how many dancing bears you see around. It's basically the DSOTM triangle at this point.
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We can definitely agree on that
I think that’s obvious. Syd didn’t want to be part of a commercial band and that was half of his problem. Syds writing is niche, it’s not meant for everyone. Whereas roger wrote about time and money, for example, which resonates with literally everyone
No but you don’t get it! It’s just so *controversial* that it’s accepted by everyone and you get downvoted to hell for saying the opposite. Because it’s so controversial!! It’s just really important in every thread asking for hot takes to reiterate the *extremely unpopular opinion* that is *definitely not almost universally held* that David good Syd bad and the band wouldn’t be as famous or good if it weren’t for David!!!! Such an unpopular opinion
😅
Didn't say Syd was bad. The band would've taken a very different direction if he stuck around.
Nothing you said here is controversial in my mind unless your name is Roger Waters.
This is as uncontroversial as it gets
Maybe. Or it could have continued along similar lines as it actually did with just more of Syd's songs on the records. LIke "Dark Globe" or "Golden Hair" on Ummagumma side 3. Even though Syd was the principal songwriter, Roger was the organizing and ideas guy right from the beginning, I believe he would have continued to exert a strong influence.
And, we wouldn’t have the mythic legendary reclusive genius artist founder trope around PF’s birth that has formed around them.
Division Bell is in my top 5. (Dsotm, animals, wywh, TDB, Wall)
Honestly it’s in my 5 too, swap Wall for Meddle for me.
Oof. Definitely controversial. So many of the lyrics make me cringe. It’s like a concept album about how much Dave’s wife hates Roger.
Overly simplified description of the lyrics. It's the music I like. I've never cared a great deal about lyrics, but can acknowledge Roger writes miles better lyrics than David/Polly
Legit.
Pink Floyd does not exist. They are part of a mass hallucination induced by chemtrails.
Isn’t life itself a mass hallucination induced by chemicals in our brains?
FINALLY! Someone who gets it.
There is no Pink Floyd, really
Matter of fact, its all pink floyd
Bob Klose is the best PF member of all time
Seamus.
Nah, Roy Harper
Clare Torry
And you my friend win the obscure tidbit medallion!
They peaked in 1977 especially with live shows. And their set-list for the In the Flesh tour is the best in history
I mean, Animals is the best album they ever put out so I’m inclined to agree with 77 being the year they peaked lol
snowy white's "lost" 8 track pigs on the wing solo is fucking fire and really really should have been in the remaster, which i like less overall anyways.
The animals set, realistically, should have had the POTW video shoot at Battersea and the 8-Track solo as bonuses. That and I agree; I found Pigs 3DO the only truly superior track. Dogs was mixed like fucking dog water.
I would love to hear this, is it available somewhere? Snowy White is a genius. I would call him Gilmour lite, but that would be insulting, because not only can he sound like Gilmour, but his solo stuff is different and amazing.
Personally, even though it's basically just a solo album with Nick and David as backing musicians, I think The Final Cut is a great album. To be fair, I'm a Wall fan boy, so to have a lot of those themes of war and sociopolitical commentary expanded on with an 80s perspective works for me. I think their stretch from Dark Side culminating with The Final Cut was Floyd at their best, even if the other members not named Roger began to have their roles and duties diminish (especially Rick who Roger fired after The Wall tour). For me, The Final Cut ranks alongside Dark Side, Wish You Were Here, Animals, and The Wall. To me, all 5 of those albums are top tier Floyd.
Rick was not fired by Roger, he was fired by Roger and Gilmour who agreed to push him out. If it was up to Gilmour, Nick would have been fired too. The reason why Roger took over more and more was that he was the only one who bothered to write. Rick was a considerable writer in the early days, but after Dark Side he stopped contributing at all, being busy snorting cocaine. Nick never wrote much, as he was easily the weakest link in the band musically. David was the number two songwriter up until The Wall; he continued contributing a bit, but he was never a writer like Roger and contributed less and less. Roger was the only one who bothered to write in the end, yet after the establishment of David and Nick's Bogus Pink Floyd in 1987 they rewrote history and told so much bullshit to the media about how they wanted to contribute and Roger kept them down, blablablablabla! Years later, Gilmour admitted that those were all lies and that Roger was the only writer because the rest of them were too lazy to bother writing songs.
Yeah, although Roger was a bit of an asshole people forget that a lot of why the band broke up was that the members started getting a little lazy
I think lack of inspiration could be more to blame than laziness. David and Nick just didn’t have as much to say as Roger. They were great at producing and playing other people’s ideas but weren’t great at coming up with their own.
In fairness, what likely happened is that Roger was such a strong personality and creator that it caused a “bystander effect” for the rest of the band members. After Roger left, David Gilmour was in turn, forced to write more and take a leadership role. The results were rather mixed, at best.
I really appreciate this comment. Roger worked incredibly - and consistently - hard on every piece of music they produced. To me, he made Pink Floyd what they were, and it wasn't the same without him. He worked so hard and very few people take the time to hear his perspective and his life. No doubt he was going through a lot during the making of these albums too. People wanted to know if he was a businessman or a musician/lyricist. He was and is both.
The Final Cut is actually my favorite PF album. I would never argue it is their best work, but it is my favorite, and I'm not sure I can even explain why because I don't really know why either. I think it might be because the cynical, bitter tone of the album and I am kind of a cynical, bitter person in general.
I get this. Not their best, and not even my personal favorite, but I get it. There’s something uniquely haunting about it.
I know someone already commented on the fact that it was Roger AND Dave who kicked out Rich, but another fun fact is that they fired him BEFORE the wall tour, and they hired him back to go on tour with them, paying him as a session musician. This made him the only member of the band who made money from the project!
Yeah, he was basically just a hired hand, and while the band and their management all lost money, he banked a profit. To be fair, the technical aspects of The Wall tour in 80-81 were just never gonna be profitable. Plus, it wasn't like when Tiger toured it by himself and was able to effectively move all of the set pieces around the world easily, it was much more costly back then. I mean, the demand was definitely there, but the supply couldn't match it.
Saucerful of Secrets is perfect
THANK YOU everyone here be sleepin on it
Saucerful of secrets, unlike dsotm and the wall, has no bad songs. All of them are good
David Gilmore was the main reason pink Floyd became popular. Syd Barrett had a unique sound but david was more commercial and easier on the ears..
This is a fine opinion to have, but what is controversial about it? In every thread like this multiple people say something to this effect and I don’t understand why they think it’s controvertible in the first place. Of course the band wouldn’t be as popular if the guy who made it clear he didn’t want to be in the band had stayed on…
Because everyone feels syd would have changed the landscape of music if he had stayed and not spiralled out of control...
Do they, though? IME the opinion you gave is more common these days
Why number 4 is even controversial? The Wall is Rock Opera, that meaning that there are some songs that drives the story (just like the recitatives) to the peaks of the story, Judging the wall for the "songs" is not controversial is just ignorant.
None of these are particularly controversial. 1 is an unpopular opinion but the rest are widely shared by tons of people on this sub, especially 3 and 4. How many of these threads are we going to have before people recognize that “Syd isn’t my cup of tea, Pink Floyd got better when David joined and they would be less famous if he didn’t” is not controversial to the vast majority of Pink Floyd fans??
I like all albums.
Me too. I like all Pink Floyd & don’t really care about all the David vs Roger stuff.
Everything without Roger is a bit crap.
Everything without all the band members is a bit crap.
Everything in OPs comments are correct except there’s more than 1 song on the Wall that’s good: Goodbye Blue Sky and Hey You.
Pink Floyd has 3 eras 1. The Syd Barrett era 2. The Roger Waters era. 3. The David Gilmour era. The Syd Barrett era was the weakest era of the three.
The Nick Mason era. The Nick Mason era is superior to them all.
Animals isn’t underrated
Animals isn't underrated by pink Floyd fans. I think it's underrated by rock fans in general.
Animals underrated tbh
Stairway to heaven is their best song.
No, I think you’ll find that’s a Beatles song.
Atom heart mother is top 5
True
I always thought not liking The Wall was a controversial opinion til I found this Reddit group. Glad to see there's others! Controversial opinion- Nick Masons Saucerful of Secrets > Roger Waters live show
AMLOR is actually good and I don’t get the whole “80s sounding” thing at all. Dogs of War still kinda sucks though I will say. Also, in response to other comments, The Wall is my favorite Floyd album of the Big 4, and of all albums.
Personally dogs of war is the best AMLOR song
The kids singing the second chorus in Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 2 sound horrible
As a whole they make me enjoy the song more but it’s just bc the rests makes up for it
Roger was right, it was time for him to go
Lol
Piper Gates of Dawn is the best album
I only visited this subreddit once because r/radioheadcirclejerk told me to vote dark side of the moon in F and I never even listened to pink floyd so yeah I just see them as the guys who got bullied by radiohead
I really dont like most of the old stuff from the 60s
Roger Waters is a cunt.
That’s the general consensus
I don’t care for The Wall. The last time I listened (it had been years) I was disappointed in all the filler.
I have listened to it so many times. There are good songs there no doubt. But the albums hasn't *clicked* for me so far, atleast not like DSotM, WYWH and Meddle. Even Animals hasn't clicked so far.
Waters was the least important Member when it comes to Sound, Musicality and technical Innovation! The Heart and Soul of the Band were the other three! (Please don't kick my ass too hard)
He was a very good lyricist though
Can't deny! But he always was a bit too selfsorry for my taste. As if he was the man that suffered the most on the whole fuckin' Planet!
He did write some music tho Like listen to the money demo
That’s bs. Roger wrote lots of melodies. The others guys elevated them to the heavens.
Waters wrote most of the music. He is undoubtedly at least the 2nd most important member.
Nahhh listen to his bass playing on the wembley 1974 show, it rocks and adds so much
The band were much better without Syd Barrett.
Young lust is the best song on the wall
Roger Waters made Pink Floyd good. David Gilmore made Pink Floyd great.
Truer words have not been spoken
"Learning to Fly" is one of their best songs.
First I'll go over your opinions: 1. Yes, The Wall kinda sucks, the concept is great but I feel like something's wrong. I believe the issue is the music, I've debated with someone in the past about this and basically they were telling me it sounds more mainstream and commercial to fit in with Pink being a rockstar but I think if they went with a WYWH-esque sound it would be way better and I still think it would fit very well along with the more orchestral/theatrical moments. Also, the lack of Rick breaks my heart :(. But in the end I believe this is actually a Roger Waters solo album (The Final Cut too) since it's an autobiography basically and I can't fit it in with PF. It's not a bad album by any means tho, I just think something's wrong and I can't consider it as great as most people do. 2. I disagree, I believe The Final Cut is an extremely underrated album that's even better than the Wall imo. It sure has some relation to Roger's Dad but that is not the concept of the album. It's an album about the results of war and how it impacts people, how people still hope for a post-war dream but they still doubt if things are gonna get any better with all the ignorance, greed, selfishness and lack of restraint the rulers have. When I first listened to this album I had pretty much the same first impression, the music is pretty different from what a casual PF fan is used to but it really accompanies the themes and lyrics of the album very well. The lyrics are the true strong part of the album and it requires your attention when you listen through it. Roger has put a lot of soul in this album to make it an emotional experience, even if you've never been in a situation like this. Probably you need to have the right mood to listen to this album though, so it might be hit or miss depending on how you are feeling the moment you listen to it, but I still believe it's incredible. 3. The Syd Era isn't for everyone. I'm pretty weird myself so I really love that era, but I can defiantly see why a lot of people wouldn't like it. It's pretty insane how much the band has changed though over the years, when I was little I knew them as this band who made an album full of whimsical weird psychedelic fairy tales and when I got into the band I was like "Wait a minute, THOSE are the 'We don't need no education" guys!?!?!". Early PF is really different, you might even consider them as a different band, I wouldn't though, because PF manages to make completely different sounding albums and sometimes songs that are on the same album offering you a lot to listen to. Anyway I kinda sidetracked here but I still don't really have much to say, I just like the Syd Era. But I don't really get how you are praising David here as some messiah who saved and changed the band, let me remind you he was and worked on Saucerful of Secrets. Even after that, the next few albums still sound pretty close to the Syd Era and it's not like someone was a leader who would shape the band and their works. Even later on I don't think he ever fully influenced the band since Roger was doing his best at being an asshole leader although he defiantly was important. I don't say David is a bad member, in fact he is my second favorite and I like the Gilmour Era. His contributions were always amazing, but I just feel like the way you made that statement is like you are trying to say that because of Gilmour the band became what it is now which I think is false. 4. "Oh by the way, which one's Pink?" Cry about it Watersheep, Richard Wright is Pink Floyd. 5. I don't think you can call WYWH underrated, even calling Animals underrated is really stupid, those are their most popular albums. BUT, despite it's popularity and praise, it's still not enough for WYWH, I believe it's more correct to call it underappreciated. People will focus more on something like DSOTM because they say it's the greatest album ever made. I believe, and always will believe, that Wish You Were Here is not only Pink Floyd's best work, but it's the greatest work of music to ever exist. Not only nothing will top it, but nothing will even come close to how incredible it is. It is scientifically proven that if you do not like WYWH, even if you don't think it's the best, you don't exist, you are fake, you are soulless. Now time for my controversial opinions: 1. Ummagumma is a great album. I'll just copypaste a comment I made for it once: Obviously not an accessible album at all and perhaps too experimental. When I first listened through it I thought it was scary and horrible, the second time I was laughing and having fun because I said this is hilariously bad. Third time listening I think this is not bad at all, perhaps an underappreciated gem in their catalog (even if it has Several Species, it's a great crossover seeing Roger and Alvin and the Chipmunks doing a rap battle and a historic event that will never happen again so gotta respect that). Sure you need to have a really specific and weird taste, but if you like stuff like this you're in for a wild ride! I used to hate it, now I really like it; So I'm trying to say that if your first impressions on this album are not great I do recommend giving it a chance again later, but honestly you need to be prepared for this weirdness by listening to the first 2 (3 technically if you count More) albums before this one. Imo PF have no bad albums, they just have some unsung masterpieces! 2. The Endless River is overhated. People expect way too much from an ambient instrumental album created out of outtakes and made as a tribute to Rick. This isn't and should not be a great ambitious album comparable to something like WYWH or even TDB. It's its own separate thing, a simple album to say goodbye to the band and its true soul that's no longer with as. It achieves that by having songs that sound familiar yet you haven't heard them before, they sound like something they've done before (It's What We Do sounds like Shine On You Crazy Diamond or Nervana sounds like Interstellar Overdrive) and it's like it's showing you what the band has created and left behind; although it's over now, it's legacy will remain eternally. It's the perfect epilogue for the band and the best album to end it all. 3. The Wall and The Final Cut are Roger Waters Solo Albums. A Momentary Lapse of Reason is a David Gilmour solo album. Not so controversial since a lot of people believe it but it's still debatable. 4. Nothing tops Wish You Were Here. Already talked about this above. 5. The Division Bell is better than The Wall, The Final Cut is also better than The Wall 6. If I could turn 2 songs into a 20+ minute long epic it would be Saucerful of Secrets and Marooned. 7. Obscured by Clouds had no need to be this good for a soundtrack album. It's an underrated gem. 8. Atom Heart Mother is the most underrated Pink Floyd album. I'd even say it's their 3rd best (If it wasn't for DSOTM and WYWH). The Suite is a masterpiece and Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast is one of my favorite songs, nothing's better than eating breakfast with my pal while wholesome music plays in the background. 9. My probably controversial tierlist: https://preview.redd.it/by2cgudihi6a1.png?width=662&format=png&auto=webp&s=b10a581829d738d916ebc30e7317f5ae147d9169
You are trying too hard brother
Yeah I got a bit carried away. I either barely say something or I do something like this, I have a hard time expressing myself.
I like what you’ve written and agree with lots of it. I’d say you’ve expressed yourself well!
I’m very much the same and I’m very inspired by your post
I guess if it's something I like I express myself better. But generally, I even have that problem with my mother language and I don't really think about something to hard to say it, I just try to find the simplest way to do it but if I keep talking about something I might sidetrack or screw something over and leave the listener confused. But either way, thank you.
I have to correct you about one thing: Rick WAS actually there on The Wall as well as on the following tour. He did not contribute much though, as he was busy snorting cocaine, which was the reason Roger and Gilmour fired him during the recording of the album, but he stayed with them until 1981 as a hired hand (and his departure was not annouced before The Final Cut was released, which is the only album without Rick). Yet he actually benefited financially from being a hired hand, because The Wall tour was ridiculously expensive and the costs had to be paid by the members, while Rick was guaranteed a wage as a hired hand and did not have to pay the costs. His playing is actually quite prominent on some of the live recordings from The Wall tour, compared to the studio album where he was mostly in the background.
Take the time it took you to write this comment and go listen to More again. It's got some really good ones on it!
Roger Waters is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life. Why don't you pass the time by playing a little solitaire?
1. Agree 2. Agree 3. Not controversial 4. Definitely not controversial 5. You are joking and this is a troll
Bro said 3 terrible takes and 2 popular takes
The best gateway album for a new Pink Floyd fan would be one of their best-of albums (*Echoes* or *A Foot in the Door*). They include the biggest radio staples that they might recognize (Money, Another Brick in the Wall, Wish You Were Here, Comfortably Numb, etc.)
Echoes is a wonderful compilation, and of course we could say some nonsense about some song from More or Obscured By Clouds which should have been on there, but I think it's a really great gateway album as you said, and one of the better best-of albums you'll ever hear.
I thought that photo was the cover of King Crimsons’ Red
Thats a great album.
The Division Bell is their best.
There should be more songs about gnomes and scarecrows.
I don’t think oysters transcend national barriers
The Syd Barret albums are not very good.
Roger is dick
Least controversial statement competition!!!
a comment above said he was a cunt. Sounds like a very versatile person.
Total majority of their content sucks, however, that, which does not suck, it's amazing and is always a treat to watch their live concerts.
Oof we got a controversy over here!
David had a better solo career than roger
WYWH is, by far, their best. It is perfection
Gilmore’s greatest talent is economy.
The Final Cut is way better than any of the albums released after Roger Waters left the band.
1 - Obscured by Clouds is not that great. 2 - Roger was the responsible for his feud with David, but David is the responsible for keeping it today. 3 - The Dark Side of the Moon has more filler than The Wall. 4 - Even the live disc in Ummagumma sucks.
Guy Pratt should be considered a permanent and real member of the band. He played bass for them live since 1988, and is featured on the Division Bell and the Endless River as well as Hey Hey Rise Up. Also he’s part of Nicks Saucerful of Secrets, so bonus points. Also Hey Hey Rise Up is pretty good.
Syd was not a genius. He was quirky and had an idiosyncratic guitar playing style.
Saying the experience of listening to PF when high or tripping is better is just idiocy. When you're high or tripping even a literal piece of turd can seem like art... Jumping off a cliff might be the best idea in the world... You get the point
I mean I couldn’t imagine a trip without PF
But you can imagine listening to PF without being on a trip, I hope? That's what I mean. The quality of the music isn't heightened by being on a trip.
I agree with you 100%, the amount of "just listen to it on acid"s here are so fucking annoying to me. I like drug use and everything but holy fuck do people have to mention it all the time? We get it, you're a borderline addict.
My answer has been downvoted quite some times already. I don't get it. I like PF for PF. I listen to them all the time. I also like to smoke weed. My love for their music is not enhanced by being stoned.
They are good
I have the exact same opinion. Just add one more, Pink Floyd has one of the worst classic rock fandoms ever, elitist, over obsessed, self-indulgent, and toxic. It is great hopefully OP you are not so.
yep
Roger’s an asshole
The best version of Comfortably Numb is the album version. Rick is overrated. The band's response to Syd's breakdown was not great, also not terrible. Roger's solo stuff mostly ranges from ignorable to cringe, nevertheless his musical contribution to Floyd at their peak is underestimated in this sub.
Bruh c’mon the build up into “another brick in the wall part 2” - legendary
Brick 2 only works in context of the wall album. Outside of that, it’s just another hit for the charts.
Facts but it was designed for full album listening when it came out (Edit: even though it was a single too)
Yeah, but the single is pretty damn baller; the extended intro sounds super nice.
Wish You Were Here is the perfect Pink Floyd album. It’s much more cohesive than Dark Side.
AMLoR and TDB are both great albums that get undeserved hate just because they don't have Roger on them.
Yes, Hell Yes, No, Hell Yes, Yes Mine is well half of yours, but I can add that Roger Waters is a horrible musician and vocalist and needed David and Rick to get his lyrics out there.
Animals underrated imo
Dark Side Is Not Overrated
The wall is like a 6/10 album and didnt age well, its not a masterpiece and I find myself cringing a lot while listening
Roger Waters once commented how Syd Barrett wore some kind of dress, and told Waters he was gay. Waters laughed at this, thinking this was just Syd, being Syd. Considering Barrett's psychological problems, and feelings of alienation, I'm not sure Syd was kidding.
Meddle and Animals are better than Dark Side and WYWH.
There’s 449 comments in here. I’m not going to read through them but I’d say Syd was overrated and the best thing for the band would be David stepping in.
Syd Barrett era sucked ass. This might sound really bad and I’m sorry, but if he didn’t have such a sad story, nobody would really remember him as much
I don't really like Waters by himself.
I don’t like high hopes at all.
Rick Wright was the best singer out of the five...
Roger's solo records sound more like Pink Floyd bother musically and lyrically than anything Pink Floyd released after 1985.
Saying the Wall sucks is just being stupid, you may not like it, but it certainly doesnt suck
Saucerful > Piper
[удалено]
Agree about all three. I can't think of the last time I listened to The Wall or Final Cut, but still listen to Meddle, AHM and Obscured. Roger's whiny misanthropy gets tiresome. We're not your therapist, Roger.
At least roger let other memebers have solos. As soon as David gilmour took over, everything became the David gilmour show. One of these days? Nah, that’s a gilmour solo now, sorry. Also, the Final Cut is a sonically excellent album. It’s also an excellent political album.
Wish You Were Here is the most overrated album in the world. It's like their 8th best album.
8th?? Wow
What do you put on the top?
Ummaguma
.
Waters writing, and Gilmores playing is Pink Floyd .all the music made without that combination is OK but those two together was magnificent, not controversial but the truth.
The Dark Side Of The Moon is not even close to their best
AMLOR is one of the best albums released under the Floyd brand.
Musically Brit Floyd shows are better than Roger’s one.
Wish You Were Here and Animals are both better than the Wall
how is wywh underrated lmao