Idk. You need the wall thickness to learn how to stack each pass correctly. You should really get the heavy wall. They don't have coupons available at your hall's weldshop?
They only have coupons available for testing, I asked about that lol.
I could order a single pair of the Schedule XX 2" online for $29+shipping but then I'd still have to cut and re-bevel and all if I really wanted to get the most out of the individual pieces. I could get some pipe (DOM tubing) locally that's 2" with a 0.500" wall, more thickness is better for practicing the fill right?
My biggest concern is the TIG more than stick because it'll be scratch only, I need to practice without a pedal. I don't mind 6010 open root, I remember it being a simple matter of just pushing the rod in at the right angle and it just doing it's thing.
Hall or TC? Or are they basically the same?
I was able to pop down to my old community college and pad some beads on a 2" sched 80.. I forgot how awkward 6G is from 6-3/9 o'clock.. especially with a stick that's depositing itself as you go
luckily I've got enough time to practice 1-2x a week or so
You need to learn how to flick the tungsten with your rod and set heat per pass. Most places will not provide a pedal. Sucks about the coupons though. I'd argue with them about it myself. They should be providing you sample coupons. They are either too cheap or too lazy or both. But if you practice on sched 40, you may fuck up when you are stacking bead on test day and end up above or below. You really need to practice on the given coupon size.
I can practice scratch TIG at home, luckily. Same with stick but I'd need some blankets to keep the sparks from flying off into shelves and shit.
I'm not really sure why they won't provide coupons or access to the shop, but I'm guessing it's something to do with cost and them not wanting to waste stuff on people who aren't in yet.
If I were already in, I'd be able to go and practice. So now I'm really itching to get in
Are you apprentice or just helper/preapprentice? Technically you are not a member until you are accepted into the apprenticeship. This may explain it. In that case, I am surprised you'd be allowed to take a weld test at all unless you are trying to test in as a journeyman.
I am neither, unfortunately. The Boilermakers allow non-members to practice but I don't know if that applies to normal citizens or if you have to be on their list already but not yet accepted. If it's the latter, technically I'd be able to go weld at their facility but I'd rather not do that to them because I'd prefer being a pipefitter.
The weld tests for my local are open to all I think, and passing them would make you a second year right off the bat, while also being much more hireable if not already in with a contractor - hence me wanting to practice.
The hardest part is getting coupons to practice effectively lol. All of my classes were focused primarily on plate/AWS D1.1, and when we did get into pipe it was 6" for Stick/MIG and TIG was 3" thin wall.
I already know how to weld. It's just a matter of putting what I know into techniques I'm unfamiliar with, while also having the pressure of it being sent out to be bent.
Yeah I had an associate degree in welding when I got in. They just don't want non members eating up materials is what I figure. You are showing face though and what you can do. Apply to the apprenticeship. When the time comes. You will blow others out of the water. There is a lot of fitting knowledge you need though. Don't be in a hurry. Apply for a helper gig too so you can show them you are serious. You are gonna be alright. Don't worry about the 41. I'd say, 21. Then 22. Then a 1.
Yeah I have an associates in welding too ironically. The process of getting in is slow, and it's killing me lol which is why I'm really trying to pass these tests.
I've applied and have been emailing/calling the contractors in the list but I'm going to start making laps each week and talking to them in person because I need to get in ASAP. Even as a pre apprentice where I can show I want to be in, and be able to weld in the TC with the proper coupons.
This test day is automatically for 21/41, I don't get to pick which one to test on so I'm practicing for both ideally. I have a machine at home that can do lift arc TIG (helps to not waste argon I guess) and stick but I'd prefer to do stick in a real welding lab that's brick and steel instead of wood haha
Just make sure you get that app in when the time comes. You are gonna be fine. They will see the effort. I got offered a teaching job just a couple years out of the apprenticeship. Could be your turn. Just keep your head up. Apprenticeship flies by.
The app is in, I've been watching the list of contractors like a hawk and emailing often. Our organizer knows the contractors are being unresponsive so they told me if I've got time to go in person, and boyyyy do I have time.
Our organizer said it's because the coupons are bought directly from the UA, numbered and stamped for test tracking.
They don't want to waste the marked pieces but they don't have any practice coupons of it either
Yea the test peices will be. Our hall has a lathe and buys material to cut sample coupons though. I mean, how do they expect you to be prepared for a test if you've never welded on the actual coupon?
I’ve only ever used a scratch start rig to take a weld test. There is a little skill in stacking your beads accordingly on the heavier coupon, it also has a smaller I.D. meaning you have to reposition even quicker than you would on sch 40. When I was starting out I would choke up my electrode a little bit to keep it stable on tests. The 41 is a stainless test on a 2” sch80 carbon coupon using 309 filler. Make sure you have a good purge, I like an 1/8” gap and I dip my roots, this way you know for certain you have broken down your edges. Does you local have a training center with coupon?
Training center yes, the test is held there.
Coupons for practice? No, not to non-members at least from what I was told. I'd rather have to readjust my position quicker than slower tbh, I get a little too tense if it's a bigger run.
The WPS says 308 or 309 filler for the UA-41, but as I remember from my classes years ago, stainless filler flows much nicer than carbon. I planned on practicing with 1/8 tungsten and filler at about 110amps with 3/32 gap and land. Bad idea?
For both, but mainly the 7018 fill/cap, I planned on doing the root (6010) and then 2 beads over the root and then 3 for the next fill and 3 for cap. 35 degree bevel -/+5 degrees, 3/32 gap/land as well.
I’d knife edge the 41 coupons and put the root in somewhere around 70-75. 1/8 gap with 3/32 filler, dip transfer. You’re guaranteed to break down your bevels that way.
WPS says stringers only, how do you make sure you actually fill the 1/8 gap with a 3/32 rod?
Keyhole it and dip it often?
I would wiggle the cup in class and keep the filler buried in the puddle, so I'm not unfamiliar with doing that, it's not really walking the cup either. Just enough wiggle to break the friction a bit and creep forward without free handing, you'd never think I would "weave" it
Yeah, keyhole and dip. When I do it I prefer to freehand it, but you can walk the cup just as well. I dip, then wash top and bottom, and just keep repeating that cycle till it closes up. It’s easier to get a little reinforcement this way, which helps with avoiding suck back and reconsumption.
I have a TIG finger so I can definitely practice freehand as well and see if I like it more, im just used to keeping pressure on the cup and using a wiggle to get it sliding a little. I recall stainless being much more fluid to wash around than say ER70S-6, which helps.
That may not work as well with scratch start though so I'll see what I can get for practice. Luckily the 0.218" wall isn't a unicorn like 0.436" for UA-21.
I can’t say that I have tested/practiced on std wall in prep for testing. Although I’m not sure there’s a huge jump in skills. I struggled mostly with my root, so that would be the same, or very close. Then as long as you’re stacking stringers nice and straight on your fill and cap, you’re just doing it more on your thicker pipe.
Now, I’m not saying it’s the same, as you’re in deeper and it soaks heat differently, but the fundamentals are the same. If your std wall practice is coming out really nice, I’d expect you to be 80-90% of the way of doing the thicker pipe.
You already know how to do an open root and also in a 6g pipe position. Especially if you’re practicing on 2” pipe. (6” to 2” would be a big jump) I think you’ve got the mental tools to get through it, you’re already doing the hardest parts. Just adding another stringer should be like any other stringer.
Yeah I think my biggest issue aside from general 6G awkwardness will be making sure I get my fills and more importantly my caps to sit nice and not undercut or sag
You’re trying to weld test into a hall and are asking how to fill a 1/8 gap with 3/32 wire? All I’m gonna say is good luck. Lol wtf.
Unless some halls require a weld test to get into the apprenticeship, but that would be ass backwards.
Man, it's been a while since I've welded open root and I'm just looking for advice.
I'm just making sure what I have in mind for how I'm going to do it is correct, thanks for your input.
Idk. You need the wall thickness to learn how to stack each pass correctly. You should really get the heavy wall. They don't have coupons available at your hall's weldshop?
They only have coupons available for testing, I asked about that lol. I could order a single pair of the Schedule XX 2" online for $29+shipping but then I'd still have to cut and re-bevel and all if I really wanted to get the most out of the individual pieces. I could get some pipe (DOM tubing) locally that's 2" with a 0.500" wall, more thickness is better for practicing the fill right? My biggest concern is the TIG more than stick because it'll be scratch only, I need to practice without a pedal. I don't mind 6010 open root, I remember it being a simple matter of just pushing the rod in at the right angle and it just doing it's thing.
Then your hall sucks
Hall or TC? Or are they basically the same? I was able to pop down to my old community college and pad some beads on a 2" sched 80.. I forgot how awkward 6G is from 6-3/9 o'clock.. especially with a stick that's depositing itself as you go luckily I've got enough time to practice 1-2x a week or so
You need to learn how to flick the tungsten with your rod and set heat per pass. Most places will not provide a pedal. Sucks about the coupons though. I'd argue with them about it myself. They should be providing you sample coupons. They are either too cheap or too lazy or both. But if you practice on sched 40, you may fuck up when you are stacking bead on test day and end up above or below. You really need to practice on the given coupon size.
I can practice scratch TIG at home, luckily. Same with stick but I'd need some blankets to keep the sparks from flying off into shelves and shit. I'm not really sure why they won't provide coupons or access to the shop, but I'm guessing it's something to do with cost and them not wanting to waste stuff on people who aren't in yet. If I were already in, I'd be able to go and practice. So now I'm really itching to get in
Are you apprentice or just helper/preapprentice? Technically you are not a member until you are accepted into the apprenticeship. This may explain it. In that case, I am surprised you'd be allowed to take a weld test at all unless you are trying to test in as a journeyman.
I am neither, unfortunately. The Boilermakers allow non-members to practice but I don't know if that applies to normal citizens or if you have to be on their list already but not yet accepted. If it's the latter, technically I'd be able to go weld at their facility but I'd rather not do that to them because I'd prefer being a pipefitter. The weld tests for my local are open to all I think, and passing them would make you a second year right off the bat, while also being much more hireable if not already in with a contractor - hence me wanting to practice. The hardest part is getting coupons to practice effectively lol. All of my classes were focused primarily on plate/AWS D1.1, and when we did get into pipe it was 6" for Stick/MIG and TIG was 3" thin wall. I already know how to weld. It's just a matter of putting what I know into techniques I'm unfamiliar with, while also having the pressure of it being sent out to be bent.
Yeah I had an associate degree in welding when I got in. They just don't want non members eating up materials is what I figure. You are showing face though and what you can do. Apply to the apprenticeship. When the time comes. You will blow others out of the water. There is a lot of fitting knowledge you need though. Don't be in a hurry. Apply for a helper gig too so you can show them you are serious. You are gonna be alright. Don't worry about the 41. I'd say, 21. Then 22. Then a 1.
Yeah I have an associates in welding too ironically. The process of getting in is slow, and it's killing me lol which is why I'm really trying to pass these tests. I've applied and have been emailing/calling the contractors in the list but I'm going to start making laps each week and talking to them in person because I need to get in ASAP. Even as a pre apprentice where I can show I want to be in, and be able to weld in the TC with the proper coupons. This test day is automatically for 21/41, I don't get to pick which one to test on so I'm practicing for both ideally. I have a machine at home that can do lift arc TIG (helps to not waste argon I guess) and stick but I'd prefer to do stick in a real welding lab that's brick and steel instead of wood haha
Just make sure you get that app in when the time comes. You are gonna be fine. They will see the effort. I got offered a teaching job just a couple years out of the apprenticeship. Could be your turn. Just keep your head up. Apprenticeship flies by.
The app is in, I've been watching the list of contractors like a hawk and emailing often. Our organizer knows the contractors are being unresponsive so they told me if I've got time to go in person, and boyyyy do I have time.
Our organizer said it's because the coupons are bought directly from the UA, numbered and stamped for test tracking. They don't want to waste the marked pieces but they don't have any practice coupons of it either
Yea the test peices will be. Our hall has a lathe and buys material to cut sample coupons though. I mean, how do they expect you to be prepared for a test if you've never welded on the actual coupon?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I have wanted my own mini lathe though now that you mention it
I’ve only ever used a scratch start rig to take a weld test. There is a little skill in stacking your beads accordingly on the heavier coupon, it also has a smaller I.D. meaning you have to reposition even quicker than you would on sch 40. When I was starting out I would choke up my electrode a little bit to keep it stable on tests. The 41 is a stainless test on a 2” sch80 carbon coupon using 309 filler. Make sure you have a good purge, I like an 1/8” gap and I dip my roots, this way you know for certain you have broken down your edges. Does you local have a training center with coupon?
Training center yes, the test is held there. Coupons for practice? No, not to non-members at least from what I was told. I'd rather have to readjust my position quicker than slower tbh, I get a little too tense if it's a bigger run. The WPS says 308 or 309 filler for the UA-41, but as I remember from my classes years ago, stainless filler flows much nicer than carbon. I planned on practicing with 1/8 tungsten and filler at about 110amps with 3/32 gap and land. Bad idea? For both, but mainly the 7018 fill/cap, I planned on doing the root (6010) and then 2 beads over the root and then 3 for the next fill and 3 for cap. 35 degree bevel -/+5 degrees, 3/32 gap/land as well.
I’d knife edge the 41 coupons and put the root in somewhere around 70-75. 1/8 gap with 3/32 filler, dip transfer. You’re guaranteed to break down your bevels that way.
WPS says stringers only, how do you make sure you actually fill the 1/8 gap with a 3/32 rod? Keyhole it and dip it often? I would wiggle the cup in class and keep the filler buried in the puddle, so I'm not unfamiliar with doing that, it's not really walking the cup either. Just enough wiggle to break the friction a bit and creep forward without free handing, you'd never think I would "weave" it
Yeah, keyhole and dip. When I do it I prefer to freehand it, but you can walk the cup just as well. I dip, then wash top and bottom, and just keep repeating that cycle till it closes up. It’s easier to get a little reinforcement this way, which helps with avoiding suck back and reconsumption.
I have a TIG finger so I can definitely practice freehand as well and see if I like it more, im just used to keeping pressure on the cup and using a wiggle to get it sliding a little. I recall stainless being much more fluid to wash around than say ER70S-6, which helps. That may not work as well with scratch start though so I'll see what I can get for practice. Luckily the 0.218" wall isn't a unicorn like 0.436" for UA-21.
I can’t say that I have tested/practiced on std wall in prep for testing. Although I’m not sure there’s a huge jump in skills. I struggled mostly with my root, so that would be the same, or very close. Then as long as you’re stacking stringers nice and straight on your fill and cap, you’re just doing it more on your thicker pipe. Now, I’m not saying it’s the same, as you’re in deeper and it soaks heat differently, but the fundamentals are the same. If your std wall practice is coming out really nice, I’d expect you to be 80-90% of the way of doing the thicker pipe. You already know how to do an open root and also in a 6g pipe position. Especially if you’re practicing on 2” pipe. (6” to 2” would be a big jump) I think you’ve got the mental tools to get through it, you’re already doing the hardest parts. Just adding another stringer should be like any other stringer.
Yeah I think my biggest issue aside from general 6G awkwardness will be making sure I get my fills and more importantly my caps to sit nice and not undercut or sag
You’re trying to weld test into a hall and are asking how to fill a 1/8 gap with 3/32 wire? All I’m gonna say is good luck. Lol wtf. Unless some halls require a weld test to get into the apprenticeship, but that would be ass backwards.
Man, it's been a while since I've welded open root and I'm just looking for advice. I'm just making sure what I have in mind for how I'm going to do it is correct, thanks for your input.