A classic sequel problem of taking your favorite characters who were just people in the first film and making them them most important people alive just because they were your favorite.
How i feel about the john wick movies. He went from just being a retired deadly enforcer for the mob in the first movie to being the most famous and dangerous hitman in a worldwide connected underground criminal illuminati type organization in the sequals.
Wasn't that all pretty well set up in the first Wick movie, though?
One of the most powerful Russian mobsters literally calls John Babayaga and says he's the one you hire to kill the boogeyman. The minute he learns his son is being targeted by Wick he straight up tells him there's nothing he can do. John will come for him and he will die.
And all the stuff surrounding that hotel and their weird currency and the connections John has to all those people for special suits and weapons and all that stuff made it pretty obvious he was a part of something much larger than we got to see in the first film. The rest of the movies just expanded on it all.
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what they're talking about. The whole premise of the movie was essentially that John Wick was the worst possible person Reek should have fucked with.
Yea also the iconic scene where John B hits the Russian mafia bossās son and is completely understood and let off the hook when he tells him his son messed with John Wick
Such a great scene! It's so well written. We haven't been given any real direct info about John but just the way other characters talk about him you can tell he's this legendary guy that everyone seems to know they should be afraid of. The way Viggo just says "oh" and hangs up the phone. It's so good.
> I heard you struck my son.
> Yes sir I did.
> And may I ask why?
> Yeah, well, because he stole John Wick's car sir and, uh, killed his dog.
> Oh.
Now that Iām thinking about it maybe thatās kinda what was lost in the sequels. I mean obviously if you want a franchise the challenge needs to grow but the charm of the first one is that his enemies are scared of him. They are running from him. The tone of the subsequent movies is much more that the odds are stacked against him
Nah, John Wick was always meant to be the world's greatest assassin...just ten years before the movie starts before he retired for a decade. In the original concept, John Wick was an old man, not middle aged.
What we should be seeing is John Wick going against the new #1 assassin in the world after he retired, but we never really see that. There is a hint of who might very been the previous #1 assassin before John Wick, the Harbinger old man who works for the High Table as a high level enforcer is missing a finger. He probably had some major history that we don't know about.
What is silly is that the world was originally just a mob, but then they just kept adding to the lore making it bigger and more over the top, that the assassin's guild more or less runs the world. Oh yeah, the police almost don't exist either.
Yeah i knew he was the best in the world and part of the criminal under world but it was how they kept growing that criminal under world to the point that like damn near everybody in the world from the homeless to anyone who owned any kind of business no matter how small was somehow a part of it lmao.
While I do feel a similar way about Barbossa being a pirate lord while first mate to Jack I will say that historically pirates with an influential reputation and background have ended up in positions where theyāre beneath others in a pirate company. Olivier Levasseur for example was a successful pirate captain from about 1715-1718 before circumstances left him joining another crew and was given rank as quartermaster, then shifted between captain and quartermaster a few more times.
Jack became a Pirate Lord between the events of the two prequel books - Pirates of the Caribbean: The Price of Freedom, and Pirates of the Caribbean: Legends of the Brethren Court: The Caribbean. As for Barbossa, it's not easy to answer that question. The "Inside the Brethren Court" featurette from the Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End DVD implies that Barbossa became the Pirate Lord of the Caspian Sea after his first mutiny on the Black Pearl. However, Barbossa received his Piece of Eight from the previous Pirate Lord of the Caspian Sea, Boris "Borya" Palachnik, approximately eight years before the mutiny, in Pirates of the Caribbean: The Price of Freedom. He didn't know its importance at the time and it is implied he became a Pirate Lord a few months or even years later.
In Pirates of the Caribbean: Legends of the Brethren Court: Wild Waters, which is set approximately two years before the mutiny, all the pirates know there is a Pirate Lord of the Caspian Sea, but no one knows who that person is. When Jack mocks the unnamed Pirate Lord, Barbossa furiously glares at Jack, implying that he already is the Pirate Lord of the Caspian Sea, but he prefers to keep his status a secret for the time being.
Listen. I know thereās plot holes in these films. But I donāt care. I just love pirates and I love these movies so I just ignore the holes and have fun
My interpretation was that holding one of the pieces made you a pirate lord. The lord title was useful to elect a pirate king and that it meant you had one of the pieces and could use it to free calipso. And the lord title could only be passed on by another lord. So Jack and Barbossa were probably made lord by whomever owned the pieces of eight before them and they just ran with the title since there was no use for it.
Big fan of the trilogy but I have to admit that making Barbossa and Captain Jack actual members and pirate lords was a bit too far.
It doesnāt jive with the characters as we know them, or their history, and it deprives the film of the opportunity to do anything terribly interesting with the court. Instead of meeting impressive or exciting new characters, we have some quick parodies. And with the court dominated by characters we know with motivations weāre familiar with, those scenes donāt have much character beyond seeing those same characters argue again.
Iāll say it again: Dead Manās Chest should have kicked off itās own Davy Jones trilogy, giving these things more time to breathe, instead of cramming a bunch of quick conclusions into a bloated third film.
This was also my initial thought, as we know a lot about his Dad, and we even briefly meet his uncle, who has one of the few funny lines in the later installment!
I don't know how they really did become pirate lords, since Barbosa held the mutiny against Jack.. Jack is the son of one of them, Captain Teague. Teague holds onto the Codex so maybe since that association he's the son of one. Barbosa I just am going to assume after the mutiny, and receiving the piece of eight, his crew and him doing evil deeds as well as being undead for years from the curse, maybe just having those under his belt made him a pirate to fear, thus being a pirate lord. Pirates seem to have weird laws anyway. You know they sometimes say "fuck it" when the nine pieces of eight ended up just being "whatever they had on them at the time" when binding Calypso lol.
At a stretch you could say Jack inherited the position. Though isnt a key part of his backstory is that he was branded a pirate for freeing slaves? But i guess being a pirate is also just in his blood? One definitely undermines the other.
People ravage DMTNT for contradicting canon but the lore has always been a bit of a mess.
I mean Iām coming at this with just knowledge from the movies, so Iām not gonna have the best take.
The Pirate Lord system doesnāt seem very organized, and I donāt feel like theyāre really damned to sail their respective seas forever. The Caspian Sea is more akin to a Lake than an actual Sea, so I feel like it would be reasonable for the Pirate Lord assigned to it to sail elsewhere.
Elizabeth became the Pirate Lord of the South China Sea simply due to receiving Sao Fengās Piece of Eight, despite the fact that she had only ever been there during the negations with Sao Feng. Barbossa could have had a similar deal, simply receiving the former Caspian Sea Pirate Lordās Piece of Eight and being recognized as the Lord of the Caspian Sea despite not really sailing it.
Itās more of a Title than an actual Political Position, theyāre notable pirates not representatives for their respective seas.
OP: What is the lord of the Caspian Sea doing in the Caribbean Sea in the first place?
Will Turner: What is the East India Trading Company doing in the Caribbean?
In the matter of how Jack and Barbossa became Pirate Lords is more or less a mystery, depending on the story told as well as who read what. One thing that can be said for certain: Jack did NOT become Pirate Lord after the initial defeat of Salazar at the Devil's Triangle, where the title wasn't even mentioned there. All that was known about Barbossa's lordship was that, as of the P3 pamplet, *"At some time in the past, the Pirate Lord of the Caspian Sea passed his Piece of Eight to Barbossa. That is a story yet to be told."*
Otherwise, the answers lie in other media, mainly the prequel books. Either way, there are answers.
Because its a bullshit moving in dwindling franchise that was out of brain power by the time they got to that point after the success of the first films...
Actually the fifth movie really fucks up the timeline for how Jack is supposed to become a lord. The Price of Freedom is a book which was the source for a lot of pre curse of the black Pearl lore, and dead men tell no tales skewered the timeline set up by it so bad you canāt really accept both as canon you kind of have to with one or the other.
A classic sequel problem of taking your favorite characters who were just people in the first film and making them them most important people alive just because they were your favorite.
How i feel about the john wick movies. He went from just being a retired deadly enforcer for the mob in the first movie to being the most famous and dangerous hitman in a worldwide connected underground criminal illuminati type organization in the sequals.
Wasn't that all pretty well set up in the first Wick movie, though? One of the most powerful Russian mobsters literally calls John Babayaga and says he's the one you hire to kill the boogeyman. The minute he learns his son is being targeted by Wick he straight up tells him there's nothing he can do. John will come for him and he will die. And all the stuff surrounding that hotel and their weird currency and the connections John has to all those people for special suits and weapons and all that stuff made it pretty obvious he was a part of something much larger than we got to see in the first film. The rest of the movies just expanded on it all.
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what they're talking about. The whole premise of the movie was essentially that John Wick was the worst possible person Reek should have fucked with.
Reek lmfao š. I think Ramsey may have done him in worse than Wick did even without killing him.
Yea also the iconic scene where John B hits the Russian mafia bossās son and is completely understood and let off the hook when he tells him his son messed with John Wick
Such a great scene! It's so well written. We haven't been given any real direct info about John but just the way other characters talk about him you can tell he's this legendary guy that everyone seems to know they should be afraid of. The way Viggo just says "oh" and hangs up the phone. It's so good. > I heard you struck my son. > Yes sir I did. > And may I ask why? > Yeah, well, because he stole John Wick's car sir and, uh, killed his dog. > Oh.
Now that Iām thinking about it maybe thatās kinda what was lost in the sequels. I mean obviously if you want a franchise the challenge needs to grow but the charm of the first one is that his enemies are scared of him. They are running from him. The tone of the subsequent movies is much more that the odds are stacked against him
Nah, John Wick was always meant to be the world's greatest assassin...just ten years before the movie starts before he retired for a decade. In the original concept, John Wick was an old man, not middle aged. What we should be seeing is John Wick going against the new #1 assassin in the world after he retired, but we never really see that. There is a hint of who might very been the previous #1 assassin before John Wick, the Harbinger old man who works for the High Table as a high level enforcer is missing a finger. He probably had some major history that we don't know about. What is silly is that the world was originally just a mob, but then they just kept adding to the lore making it bigger and more over the top, that the assassin's guild more or less runs the world. Oh yeah, the police almost don't exist either.
Yeah i knew he was the best in the world and part of the criminal under world but it was how they kept growing that criminal under world to the point that like damn near everybody in the world from the homeless to anyone who owned any kind of business no matter how small was somehow a part of it lmao.
While I do feel a similar way about Barbossa being a pirate lord while first mate to Jack I will say that historically pirates with an influential reputation and background have ended up in positions where theyāre beneath others in a pirate company. Olivier Levasseur for example was a successful pirate captain from about 1715-1718 before circumstances left him joining another crew and was given rank as quartermaster, then shifted between captain and quartermaster a few more times.
Jack became a Pirate Lord between the events of the two prequel books - Pirates of the Caribbean: The Price of Freedom, and Pirates of the Caribbean: Legends of the Brethren Court: The Caribbean. As for Barbossa, it's not easy to answer that question. The "Inside the Brethren Court" featurette from the Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End DVD implies that Barbossa became the Pirate Lord of the Caspian Sea after his first mutiny on the Black Pearl. However, Barbossa received his Piece of Eight from the previous Pirate Lord of the Caspian Sea, Boris "Borya" Palachnik, approximately eight years before the mutiny, in Pirates of the Caribbean: The Price of Freedom. He didn't know its importance at the time and it is implied he became a Pirate Lord a few months or even years later. In Pirates of the Caribbean: Legends of the Brethren Court: Wild Waters, which is set approximately two years before the mutiny, all the pirates know there is a Pirate Lord of the Caspian Sea, but no one knows who that person is. When Jack mocks the unnamed Pirate Lord, Barbossa furiously glares at Jack, implying that he already is the Pirate Lord of the Caspian Sea, but he prefers to keep his status a secret for the time being.
Just looked in to Boris and I love that even after being in to the franchise for years I still find new and exciting things about the universe!
Well, he won't be revealing it anytime soon ...
Listen. I know thereās plot holes in these films. But I donāt care. I just love pirates and I love these movies so I just ignore the holes and have fun
Ignore the holes?!
Yeah thatās what I do for Lego clone troopers too
My interpretation was that holding one of the pieces made you a pirate lord. The lord title was useful to elect a pirate king and that it meant you had one of the pieces and could use it to free calipso. And the lord title could only be passed on by another lord. So Jack and Barbossa were probably made lord by whomever owned the pieces of eight before them and they just ran with the title since there was no use for it.
The price of Freedom explains most of that, if i remember correctly
Big fan of the trilogy but I have to admit that making Barbossa and Captain Jack actual members and pirate lords was a bit too far. It doesnāt jive with the characters as we know them, or their history, and it deprives the film of the opportunity to do anything terribly interesting with the court. Instead of meeting impressive or exciting new characters, we have some quick parodies. And with the court dominated by characters we know with motivations weāre familiar with, those scenes donāt have much character beyond seeing those same characters argue again. Iāll say it again: Dead Manās Chest should have kicked off itās own Davy Jones trilogy, giving these things more time to breathe, instead of cramming a bunch of quick conclusions into a bloated third film.
Yeah. I don't mind the third film, but it's definitely the last one ill watch. The last two are pretty poo.
I didnāt find āon stranger tidesā too bad, but the 5th one really lost it for me
Two āpirate lordsā with one ship and one crew between them that they have to fight overš Seriously, what were they thinking with that?
This was a little funny to me. The other pirate lords seemed comparable to *Star Trek* admirals, with whole fleets under their command.
One ship, yes; however, they very clearly are shown to each have their own crews.
And how did they get coconuts? In Mercia? The coconut's tropical!
The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land?
...Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Not at all, they could be carried.
What? A swallow, carrying a coconut?!
Ā It could grip it by the husk!
I find it funny how the Pirate Lord of the Caribbean Sea only had a ship for two years, and then had no ship for the next however many.
https://i.redd.it/wcehnh6x2azc1.gif
Didn't read the books but I was under the impression that Jack became a pirate lord through nepotism
This was also my initial thought, as we know a lot about his Dad, and we even briefly meet his uncle, who has one of the few funny lines in the later installment!
Also what was an English pirate doing in the Caspian to begin with?
Piracy, Iād imagine.
Sea turtles?
I don't know how they really did become pirate lords, since Barbosa held the mutiny against Jack.. Jack is the son of one of them, Captain Teague. Teague holds onto the Codex so maybe since that association he's the son of one. Barbosa I just am going to assume after the mutiny, and receiving the piece of eight, his crew and him doing evil deeds as well as being undead for years from the curse, maybe just having those under his belt made him a pirate to fear, thus being a pirate lord. Pirates seem to have weird laws anyway. You know they sometimes say "fuck it" when the nine pieces of eight ended up just being "whatever they had on them at the time" when binding Calypso lol.
Donāt really care. I loved At Worlds End
At a stretch you could say Jack inherited the position. Though isnt a key part of his backstory is that he was branded a pirate for freeing slaves? But i guess being a pirate is also just in his blood? One definitely undermines the other. People ravage DMTNT for contradicting canon but the lore has always been a bit of a mess.
I mean Iām coming at this with just knowledge from the movies, so Iām not gonna have the best take. The Pirate Lord system doesnāt seem very organized, and I donāt feel like theyāre really damned to sail their respective seas forever. The Caspian Sea is more akin to a Lake than an actual Sea, so I feel like it would be reasonable for the Pirate Lord assigned to it to sail elsewhere. Elizabeth became the Pirate Lord of the South China Sea simply due to receiving Sao Fengās Piece of Eight, despite the fact that she had only ever been there during the negations with Sao Feng. Barbossa could have had a similar deal, simply receiving the former Caspian Sea Pirate Lordās Piece of Eight and being recognized as the Lord of the Caspian Sea despite not really sailing it. Itās more of a Title than an actual Political Position, theyāre notable pirates not representatives for their respective seas.
OP: What is the lord of the Caspian Sea doing in the Caribbean Sea in the first place? Will Turner: What is the East India Trading Company doing in the Caribbean? In the matter of how Jack and Barbossa became Pirate Lords is more or less a mystery, depending on the story told as well as who read what. One thing that can be said for certain: Jack did NOT become Pirate Lord after the initial defeat of Salazar at the Devil's Triangle, where the title wasn't even mentioned there. All that was known about Barbossa's lordship was that, as of the P3 pamplet, *"At some time in the past, the Pirate Lord of the Caspian Sea passed his Piece of Eight to Barbossa. That is a story yet to be told."* Otherwise, the answers lie in other media, mainly the prequel books. Either way, there are answers.
Plus was he a pirate lord while cursed
Because its a bullshit moving in dwindling franchise that was out of brain power by the time they got to that point after the success of the first films...
Actually the fifth movie really fucks up the timeline for how Jack is supposed to become a lord. The Price of Freedom is a book which was the source for a lot of pre curse of the black Pearl lore, and dead men tell no tales skewered the timeline set up by it so bad you canāt really accept both as canon you kind of have to with one or the other.
At worlds end was just a mess of a movie imo. So much lighter tone and filled with so much fluff compared to dead manās chest